Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

S01.E11: The Devil's Mark


Athena
  • Reply
  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Cdh20 said:

I am so surprised that so many people would have returned to Frank & 1945. Maybe I too am a hopeless romantic, but I didn't question that she would choose Jamie. Since she was last at the stones & wanting to get home this happened: he's saved her live twice, at the risk of his own, he made that pledge , which she knows he doesn't take lightly, he believes she is from the future, & although she might not be sure how in love with him she is yet, she knows he's head over heels, & has just offered her her old life back, despite that! And there is the sex. 

 

The one time in the show where Claire's POV voiceover was needed was at those stones! 

To me it's not just choosing Frank-- it's choosing her own century -- her own time. Her own place.  I can not understand going back to a time before no running water/no indoor plumbing/no electricity/no modern transportation./ no mass communication-----  Pre-industrial revolution? No! Thank! You! Jamie ain't all that!

  • Like 1
  • Love 4
Link to comment
2 hours ago, taanja said:

To me it's not just choosing Frank-- it's choosing her own century -- her own time. Her own place.  I can not understand going back to a time before no running water/no indoor plumbing/no electricity/no modern transportation./ no mass communication-----  Pre-industrial revolution? No! Thank! You! Jamie ain't all that!

Lol, I wouldn't last a day in any century other than the one I was born into, & everyone knows it-maybe that is what makes it an extra good fantasy??

 

And I forgot to ask do you still feel that way now? I mean seasons later?

Edited by Cdh20
Link to comment
1 hour ago, Cdh20 said:

Lol, I wouldn't last a day in any century other than the one I was born into, & everyone knows it-maybe that is what makes it an extra good fantasy??

 

And I forgot to ask do you still feel that way now? I mean seasons later?

Yes. I like the show-- I love love love the costumes -- the characters are fun and engaging. For the most part I even like the story being told.

I just cannot understand the main characters motivation of going back to a time where it is mostly primitive? I know-- tru luv! But still Jaime is sweet and all but dude! Electricity! Freakin' running water/indoor plumbing! Those are also tru luvs! LOL

  • Love 2
Link to comment
(edited)

Yeah, I don't think anything could keep me from a toilet, toilet paper and sweatpants! LOL. There have been so many times I wanted to put my hands through the tv to put duct tape on Claire's mouth but at the stones I was actually telling her to saaaaaay something. She kept agreeing with everything Jamie was saying then when he started to walk away all she said was goodbye. She walked towards it and it went dark then she's standing over Jamie. I want to know why she decided to stay, it didn't explain or show us how she came to her decision. I think that was a big oops on the writers. But I'm happy she stayed, now I want her to tell Jamie how she feels and why she choose to stay with him. Because I want to know!

Edited by Athena
removed book references with permission from poster
  • Love 1
Link to comment

If Geillis had some suspicions about Claire, why not arrange to “accidentally“ reveal the small pox scar to her during a prior conversation?  If Claire had no reaction, no harm, but Claire would have recognized it and the two could have talked.  

I wonder if Claire told Jamie that her other husband, Frank, is the spitting image of Black Jack.  I have to guess no.  
 

maybe Claire thinks she can have a few great years with Jamie, then return to 1948 (or whenever) after Colluden.

Edited by Hanahope
  • Useful 1
Link to comment
On 6/18/2019 at 4:50 PM, foxfreakinmulder said:

Yeah, I don't think anything could keep me from a toilet, toilet paper and sweatpants! LOL. There have been so many times I wanted to put my hands through the tv to put duct tape on Claire's mouth but at the stones I was actually telling her to saaaaaay something. She kept agreeing with everything Jamie was saying then when he started to walk away all she said was goodbye. She walked towards it and it went dark then she's standing over Jamie. I want to know why she decided to stay, it didn't explain or show us how she came to her decision. I think that was a big oops on the writers. But I'm happy she stayed, now I want her to tell Jamie how she feels and why she choose to stay with him. Because I want to know!

I think we are meant to overlook it. Like any period drama you know they don’t have conveniences but still see it as romantic. In Poldark, you know they don’t have toilet paper but you forget that and think they are beautiful. Here Claire knows the difference, but she has no complaints of that kind.  
 

if stuck there, one might appreciate the lack of pollution and the quietness too. You can see the stars. Food is all fresh. You don’t need underwear. 

Link to comment
On 11/21/2018 at 9:58 AM, Cdh20 said:

I am so surprised that so many people would have returned to Frank & 1945. Maybe I too am a hopeless romantic, but I didn't question that she would choose Jamie. Since she was last at the stones & wanting to get home this happened: he's saved her life twice, at the risk of his own, he made that pledge , which she knows he doesn't take lightly, he believes she is from the future, & although she might not be sure how in love with him she is yet, she knows he's head over heels, & has just offered her her old life back, despite that! And there is the sex. 

 

The one time in the show where Claire's POV voiceover was needed was at those stones! 

She had the thought before when she decided not to try again, that she didn't know what would happen.  The stone might send her further back in time.  That could be a time when no one spoke English.  So that could have been a factor, figuring in this era she had a good husband and in others that might not happen and/or things could be much worse. And even if Jamie died or left, she knew a bunch of people in this era.  

And romance novel canon does show Jamie is the one, with his looks and personality.  He is intelligent, including emotionally intelligent, believes she is from the future (one thing that struck me right off at the stone is "how do I explain this to Frank?") in case the time had passed for him too.  20th century people might assign her to the loony bin, whereas Jamie is from a century that is still steeped in some superstition and magic and Jamie was able to believe her.  

  • Love 2
Link to comment
1 hour ago, Anothermi said:

Damn! Just when I've stopped being suspicious of Geillis and started enjoying the unholy “lady” duo of C & G... it's over! Wah!  When they were in the theives hole they start sounding like a Renaissance version of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. 😉

- Claire gets to “I told you so!”,

- Geillis gets to accuse Claire of setting her up

- Claire gets to clarify to Geillis—and us—that Leery was behind it all. She faked the letter calling Claire to Geillis and she was present when the whatever-they-were came to collect the witch(es)

- Geillis gets to accuse Claire of not keeping Geillis' secrets while SHE had kept Claire's

- Claire get to point out that Geillis was pretty free with the information that she would be in the forest “under the full moon, dancing naked and burning effigies.”

- Geillis thinks that Dougal will come to her rescue and Claire enlightens her that Dougal himself told Colum about his intent to marry Geillis and then sent Dougal away—and her Jamie to boot! There was no one to save them. (OK, that wasn't a joke)

The joke retorts continue for quite some time:

Claire: I'm Claire Fraser... married to James Fraser, nephew of the Laird

Guard: And I'm King Arthur.

Geillis: Surely King Arthur was more appealing than that slimy puddock.

(I don't know what a puddock is but what springs to mind is a root that—when observed with head cocked at an angle and through sqwinted eyes—kinda looks like a pudding.)😜

Claire: Is that what I think it is?

Geillis: Well, it's not a may pole Claire.

They could have taken that show on the road—in another series.

But Yay! for the appearance of Ned Gowan—the resourceful. I didn't know that the Witches Act of 1563 was repealed in 1735! Good to know. Not that it mattered because the Church seemed to be able to hold ad hoc proceedings under their own auspices. But Ned lures them with agreement that British Law is to be dispensed with, but Scottish Law should surely be followed. So... witches get a defense Lawyer. He really is a handy resource. 

It seems the changeling scenes where a set up for this. Ned adroitly parried the accusation against Claire to subtly implicating the parents who didn't stop her from holding it as the ones who prevented their own child from being returned by the fairies. And then repeated what Jamie had told Claire about the practice and how it gave hope to the bereaved parents. Impressive. 

Most of the witnesses presented their statements as expected, but Father Bain has me scratching me head. He turned his “proof” on it's head and were it not for the shout from that audience that only satan himself could cause the Father to leave his position Claire might have been reprieved.  Still it was the eye contact and furtive smile—initiated by Bain to the two women in the dock— after he is ordered to remain in the parish that perplexes me. I still can't decide if it was a signal that he tried to help, or one that indicated he knew he'd played a card that even Ned Gowan couldn't turn on it's head. ? ? ? I didn't give him credit for enough smarts to do the latter, but I can't believe that he had a change of heart either. 

The resolution of these accusations surprised me. The reveal that Geillis was actually from the future too, and farther in the future than Claire herself! I'm sorry we won't be seeing her again. But now I'm going to be suspecting every new character of being from the future. Geez. 

The rest—with the confession to Jamie of the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And his acceptance of it without reservation. It touched me because I think we're all looking for someone who will accept us for who we are and that is the gift that Claire gets.  I did like when he joked he'd have found it easier to accept that she was a witch. Much need levity.

Then when he asks her if she's ready to go home and she's accepted that Lallybroch will be her home—he takes her to the standing stones. Where she has to choose. That segment has me thinking it is more the “certain people” rather than “at certain times” that determines who the stones will transport.  But they set up the final decision well for us viewers. I couldn't see her leaving Jamie after he had accepted and trusted her completely, even if she was torn. Frank would never have been capable of that.

I like that Jamie drew his sword when they entered the circle—just in case. After all, he had sworn an oath to protect her and he didn't know how this whole time travel thing worked. 

I think this is kind of a parallel to Frank's visit to the stones. Neither man understood it, but only one really believed it to be true. 

Claire took a long time... It appeared that she'd moved the gold ring to her left hand and the key ring to her right to prepare.

At least they didn't make us wait until the next episode. 

I hope it's okay to reply here, since I've tried to avoid the Book Talk threads.

I too was very perplexed by Father Bain's "performance".  His look at Claire after it all was plain evil, but I too can't see how he could have anticipated the crowd's response, and why admit he was wrong to everyone?  

The prosecutors sure did a thorough job combing for any witnesses to condemn Claire and Geillis.  It's clever there was actually payoff for the changeling incident, but sheesh...

Not to mention the lack of any witnesses defending Claire.  Mrs. Fitz's relative whose son was saved - surely, she would have rushed to Castle Leoch to let Mrs. Fitz know Claire was on trial.  

Edited by Camera One
  • Like 1
  • Love 3
Link to comment

Damn! Just when I've stopped being suspicious of Geillis and started enjoying the unholy “lady” duo of C & G... it's over! Wah!  When they were in the theives hole they start sounding like a Renaissance version of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. 😉

- Claire gets to “I told you so!”,

- Geillis gets to accuse Claire of setting her up

- Claire gets to clarify to Geillis—and us—that Leery was behind it all. She faked the letter calling Claire to Geillis and she was present when the whatever-they-were came to collect the witch(es)

- Geillis gets to accuse Claire of not keeping Geillis' secrets while SHE had kept Claire's

- Claire get to point out that Geillis was pretty free with the information that she would be in the forest “under the full moon, dancing naked and burning effigies.”

- Geillis thinks that Dougal will come to her rescue and Claire enlightens her that Dougal himself told Colum about his intent to marry Geillis who then sent Dougal away—and her Jamie to boot! There was no one to save them. (OK, that wasn't a joke)

The joke retorts continue for quite some time:

Claire: I'm Claire Fraser... married to James Fraser, nephew of the Laird

Guard: And I'm King Arthur.

Geillis: Surely King Arthur was more appealing than that slimy puddock.

(I don't know what a puddock is but what springs to mind is a root that—when observed with head cocked at an angle and through sqwinted eyes—kinda looks like a pudding.)😜

Claire: Is that what I think it is?

Geillis: Well, it's not a may pole Claire.

They could have taken that show on the road—in another series.

 

But Yay! for the appearance of Ned Gowan—the resourceful. I didn't know that the Witches Act of 1563 was repealed in 1735! Good to know. Not that it mattered because the Church seemed to be able to hold ad hoc proceedings under their own auspices. But Ned lures them with agreement that British Law is to be dispensed with, but Scottish Law should surely be followed. So... witches get a defense Lawyer. He really is a handy resource. 

It seems the changeling scenes where a set up for this. Ned adroitly parried the accusation against Claire to subtly implicating the parents—who didn't stop her from holding it—as the ones who prevented their own child from being returned by the fairies. And then repeated what Jamie had told Claire about the practice and how it gave hope to the bereaved parents. Impressive. 

Most of the witnesses presented their statements as expected, but Father Bain has me scratching me head. He turned his “proof” on it's head and were it not for the shout from that audience that only satan himself could cause the Father to leave his position Claire might have been reprieved.  Still it was the eye contact and furtive smile—initiated by Bain to the two women in the dock— after he is ordered to remain in the parish that perplexes me. I still can't decide if it was a signal that he tried to help, or one that indicated he knew he'd played a card that even Ned Gowan couldn't turn on it's head. ? ? ? I didn't give him credit for enough smarts to do the latter, but I can't believe that he had a change of heart either. 

The resolution of these accusations surprised me. The reveal that Geillis was actually from the future too, and farther in the future than Claire herself! I'm sorry we won't be seeing her again. But now I'm going to be suspecting every new character of being from the future. Geez. 

The rest—with the confession to Jamie of the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And his acceptance of it without reservation. It touched me because I think we're all looking for someone who will accept us for who we are and that is the gift that Claire gets.  I did like when he joked he'd have found it easier to accept that she was a witch. Much need levity.

Then when he asks her if she's ready to go home and she's accepted that Lallybroch will be her home—he takes her to the standing stones. Where she has to choose. That segment has me thinking it is more the “certain people” rather than “at certain times” that determines who the stones will transport.  But they set up the final decision well for us viewers. I couldn't see her leaving Jamie after he had accepted and trusted her completely, even if she was torn. Frank would never have been capable of that.

I like that Jamie drew his sword when they entered the circle—just in case. After all, he had sworn an oath to protect her and he didn't know how this whole time travel thing worked. 

I think this is kind of a parallel to Frank's visit to the stones. Neither man understood it, but only one really believed it to be true. 

Claire took a long time... It appeared that she'd moved the gold ring to her left hand and the key ring to her right to prepare.

At least they didn't make us wait until the next episode. 

ETA: big thanks to @Camera One for copying my post to the correct thread and @SassAndSnacks for alerting me to my blunder of posting it to the Book Talk thread. So good to have you on this watch with us Unsullied refugees. ((hugs))

Edited by Anothermi
  • Like 1
  • Love 3
Link to comment
20 hours ago, Camera One said:

I too was very perplexed by Father Bain's "performance".  His look at Claire after it all was plain evil, but I too can't see how he could have anticipated the crowd's response, and why admit he was wrong to everyone?  

The prosecutors sure did a thorough job combing for any witnesses to condemn Claire and Geillis.  It's clever there was actually payoff for the changeling incident, but sheesh...

Not to mention the lack of any witnesses defending Claire.  Mrs. Fitz's relative whose son was saved - surely, she would have rushed to Castle Leoch to let Mrs. Fitz know Claire was on trial.  

Yes, count me in on the oddity of Father Bain-of-my-existance's 'performance'. The only thing I can think of is that he planted that person in the audience to respond as such, knowing the fervor of the crowd would be in his favor. I believed him, although I was rather shocked at his repentance, until he shot that look at Claire and it seemed like he was saying 'Check mate bitch'. He's shady as shit. I did like the tie in with the changeling incident too, and it made me remember Jaime's comment to Claire about how "most of these people have never traveled more than two hours from the place where they were born, they know nothing of the outside world, only what Father Bain tells them in the Kirk on Sundays..." or something to that effect. It says that this is an insular place, full of superstition and strange beliefs, despite the fact that what we've seen of social gatherings at the Castle appear quite cultured and perhaps even worldly. I was also perplexed that Castle Leoch and connections to the Laird didn't do any good for Claire, that was surprising to me because I'd have thought the Laird of the land there would be sort of a de facto king of sorts, and that anyone related to him would have never been arrested in the first place. I mean, don't all these men who were trying Claire and Geillis, don't they swear their fealty to Colum too? I'm a little confused about this.

Also, I was hoping that we'd see Leery's expression when Jaime saves Claire, but then again, I'm sure she'd just say he's been bewitched by Claire and that's why he's saving her. I really am beginning to believe that Leery is more of a witch than Geillis ever was, but more along the lines of dark magic. I hate her, I really do. I would be quite happy to know of her demise.

20 hours ago, Anothermi said:

But Yay! for the appearance of Ned Gowan—the resourceful. I didn't know that the Witches Act of 1563 was repealed in 1735! Good to know. Not that it mattered because the Church seemed to be able to hold ad hoc proceedings under their own auspices. But Ned lures them with agreement that British Law is to be dispensed with, but Scottish Law should surely be followed. So... witches get a defense Lawyer. He really is a handy resource. 

It seems the changeling scenes where a set up for this. Ned adroitly parried the accusation against Claire to subtly implicating the parents—who didn't stop her from holding it—as the ones who prevented their own child from being returned by the fairies. And then repeated what Jamie had told Claire about the practice and how it gave hope to the bereaved parents. Impressive. 

He really was masterful for a while there, wasn't he? I thought it very telling that he told Claire that Colum didn't know he was there and that he'd likely be pissed if he knew. I hadn't thought Claire would be on the wrong side of Colum, she's healed many folks who've come to the castle for medical healing, she's healed his nephew, she's massaged him and brought him pain relief, and she stepped in immediately when Dougal was going off in a drunk tirade over his wife's death. It's not as if Claire has been usurping him, she's been serving in the capacity in which he's asked her to serve, albeit with no ability to leave, but still. She's been doing right by Colum and I'm stymied why Ned thought Colum wouldn't help her. Then again, perhaps he said that because Colum is still angry with him for his participation in the Jacobite army raising money from the rent collection trip? I am also confused as to HOW Ned knew to come to her rescue, and similarly how Jaime knew to come to her rescue as well. I have when we are asked to suspend belief and just accept such life-saving coinkydinks, so I hope that A Story fills this in for us soon. I also wasn't clear at the end of that chaos, when Ned shot off his pistol, will they throw him in the clink too?

20 hours ago, Anothermi said:

The resolution of these accusations surprised me. The reveal that Geillis was actually from the future too, and farther in the future than Claire herself! I'm sorry we won't be seeing her again. But now I'm going to be suspecting every new character of being from the future. Geez. 

Yeah, the whole Geillis is from the future wasn't surprising to me, I figured as much. But what was surprising was her dedication to supporting a Jacobite army and the return of Bonny Prince Charlie! What the everloving fuck was that all about?!? Why would a woman from 1968 want to travel back in time to support something like that? What could possibly be in it for her? The only thing I can think of is that she became dedicated to the cause after she met and fell for Dougal. BUT, she questions Claire in the hold, and is shocked that Claire isn't there to change historic events, intimating that she IS there for that very reason, which negates what I just said about Dougal being her impetus, and rather that this was indeed her plan all along. So.Very.Weird. I do hope we're not done with Geillis yet and that we learn more about that storyline. It feels like too big a bombshell to just drop of us like that and then BAM, she's dead and we can't tell you anything about that anymore. That would be a very GoT type thing to do - get us invested in a story line laden with meaning and then drop it and never return to pick it up again. I hope that this Story is better written, at least for TV, and that we get more of Geillis. I also find it difficult to think Dougal wouldn't have returned with Jaime too.

20 hours ago, Anothermi said:

The rest—with the confession to Jamie of the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And his acceptance of it without reservation. It touched me because I think we're all looking for someone who will accept us for who we are and that is the gift that Claire gets.  I did like when he joked he'd have found it easier to accept that she was a witch. Much need levity.

Yes @Anothermi, I was also really touched that Jaime said 'I believe you. If you say it, then I believe it to be so." Never mind how whackadoodle it sounded. I suppose in a way it makes her oddities all make sense though, why she uses words that he's never heard of, why she knows things he's never heard about. And of course it makes it all the more clear that his path was never meant to be common or typical so being thrown together with Claire makes sense to him. It seems as though Claire is almost shocked at his believing her too, which is endearing. It IS a gift, honesty between partners.

20 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Then when he asks her if she's ready to go home and she's accepted that Lallybroch will be her home—he takes her to the standing stones. Where she has to choose. That segment has me thinking it is more the “certain people” rather than “at certain times” that determines who the stones will transport.  But they set up the final decision well for us viewers. I couldn't see her leaving Jamie after he had accepted and trusted her completely, even if she was torn. Frank would never have been capable of that.

I like that Jamie drew his sword when they entered the circle—just in case. After all, he had sworn an oath to protect her and he didn't know how this whole time travel thing worked. 

I think this is kind of a parallel to Frank's visit to the stones. Neither man understood it, but only one really believed it to be true. 

Yes to all of this! I assumed they were at Lallybroch too, but as she crested the hill I started to realize nope, I think he's taken her back to the Stones. I'll admit I'm all in with this couple and I was saddened to think we'd have them separate so soon, it didn't make sense to me, and I was also saddened that there were no great declarations of love, no "I will come back to you" or "I will love you forever", but I think ultimately Jaime loves Claire so deeply and so purely, that much like that old chestnut about King Solomon and the baby, he is willing to give Claire up for her own safety and for what he thinks will be her own happiness. So he's trying to keep it together and just rip the band-aid off quickly because inside he's dying every second thinking about losing this great love of his life. I confess I didn't see the moving of rings, just Claire touching each ring, trying to figure out what she should do. Aside from the HYGIENE, because hey, flush toilets and hot water rock!, what I got from that scene was that each wedding ring stood for completely different paths - Frank's ring was made of precious metal, gold, and it was smooth. Those two things to me symbolized that returning to her life with Frank would be richer in terms of materials goods and means and creature comforts, and it would be a much smoother existence to just go back and be the don's wife at Oxford. When she was touching Jaime's ring, I saw a ring made of iron, not precious metal, and made out of a common key no less! Its surface was dimpled with hammer marks from the blacksmith who made it (not a fancy jeweller) - and to me it symbolized that Claire's life with Jaime was not about a cushy life filled with precious jewelry and comfortable things and lived smoothly without strife. No, Claire's life with Jaime was just like the ring he gave her, it would be a simpler life in many ways, filled with many bumps in the road just like the hammered bumps in the ring itself, but this life with James Fraser, the preciousness would be living and loving with this man, no gold, no smooth sailing would make this life any sweeter. In fact, it was all the bumps and hardships they are still to face that make her life with Jaime precious in a way that life with Frank could never, would never be. All that I got in that short scene of Claire fiddling with two rings. That's some good story telling and some great film shooting if you ask me.

And I also take your point as truth too, that while Frank double-backed to the Stones to try to understand what happened, he just isn't wired in a way that would ever allow him to understand any of this. In fact, if Claire does end up having to go back at some point and ends up back in Frank's time, I have no qualms saying he will not believe what happened to her, and he will be resentful and treat her like a fucking twat, because that is in his DNA of being a relative of Randall. Yet Jaime, this seemingly innocent young man, is able to understand the Stones simply because the woman he loves says it is so. That is damn romantic!

My last comment on the Stones is this - I'm not sure if it's a case of 'Who' or 'When' with being able to travel through them, at least not at this point. I thought immediately that it was a 'who' because when Claire tells Jaime all she did was put her hands on the Stones after she heard this loud buzzing sound,(and not for nothing I thought it was gut wrenching that he grabbed her because he wasn't ready for her to leave just yet) I thought because we heard that buzzing sounds it meant that Claire can move through the Stones any time, not just after a ceremony has occurred there, but we don't know yet if she even tried and nothing happened and that's why she returned to Jaime's campfire, or if she decided NOT to try. I am hoping for the latter, because it would mean it was a conscious decision to stay with Jamie because she knows a life with him will be worth living so much more than her settling for a life with Frank.

ETA: I know I've mentioned this, I think maybe in the last episode, that perhaps Jaime would have ended up with Leery if Claire hadn't showed up, but I truly believe now that Jaime and Claire were always meant to be together, though I don't know if it's just an epic love story or if there is some higher purpose in this couple's existence. In E01 when Murtagh brings Claire to their hide-out after the shoot out in the forest, and she helps Jaime with his shoulder and his wound (I think she dresses he wound there in a makeshift sort of way, doesn't she?) isn't there a line where they're considering leaving Jaime with a gun if he cannot ride, because Redcoats are all around and they need to get back to Leoch quickly? So Jaime would likely have died if Claire hadn't shown up and got him fixed up to the point where he could ride onward with the men. This makes me believe that Leery is a nuisance but was never meant to be no matter how much she'd like that to be so. Again, be off with you, crazy bitch!

Also, Jaime keeps showing up to save Claire, so without him, she would have been raped and/or killed too, so they both exist to keep the other safe. Shit, I had something else I wanted to say and I cannot remember it... AHA! I just remembered what I wanted to say - I found it odd that he'd take Claire to the Stones at that time given that's where Randall's men captured Claire just seemingly a week or so ago, so the likelihood they'd still be in the area is good, no? It seems like a huge risk for him to take, but then again, he will do anything for Claire so...I guess I shouldn't be surprised?

Lastly, when Jaime awakens by the fire to see Claire standing there, he seems truly surprised, and after I rewatched that scene a few times I realized there is a tear streaming down his face when she says "Take me home to Lallybroch".  Damn. And so, to A Show I must say, "I came to you at Netflix with nothing but an empty mind and me bare hands...when I heard your opening song...You're tearing me guts out, Show..."

Edited by gingerella
  • Love 4
Link to comment
11 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Why would a woman from 1968 want to travel back in time to support something like that?

I had a thought that Geillis was a Scot herself and 1968—unless she read a lot of SciFi—philosophical speculation on what would happen if you went back in time and changed things wasn't as popular as it later became. Of course we can't know, but that's my thought at present.

 

12 minutes ago, gingerella said:

I also find it difficult to think Dougal wouldn't have returned with Jaime too.

Dougal had been told NOT to return unless sent for.  He'd been banished. 

29 minutes ago, gingerella said:

I confess I didn't see the moving of rings, just Claire touching each ring, trying to figure out what she should do.

I didn't "see" it either. I noticed the fiddling upon rewatch and I took the time to figure out—given that we are seeing in opposite view—which hand each ring was on and noticed the change. But I agree that was part of her inner struggle. Stay? or go.

33 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Yet Jaime, this seemingly innocent young man, is able to understand the Stones simply because the woman he loves says it is so.

That— and the fact that he grew up in a world that believed in fantastical, magical things. ;-)

2 hours ago, gingerella said:

I thought immediately that it was a 'who' because when Claire tells Jaime all she did was put her hands on the Stones after she heard this loud buzzing sound... I thought because we heard that buzzing sounds it meant that Claire can move through the Stones any time, not just after a ceremony has occurred there

Agreed. That same buzzing sound occurred when she went to the stones after her most recent near rape and was in shock. She heard Frank's voice calling her and she called back. The buzzing sound got louder and just as she was about to touch the stone everything went black. We find out later that was because the British had seized her—or that's the impression I got given that she was shouting so loudly. They could have found her easily.

I'M pretty much convinced by that buzzing atmosphere that Claire could have gone back, but chose to stay with Jamie. It is, as far as I'm concerned, the "who".

Whether the "when" comes into play in a different scenario? Guess we'll have to wait and watch for it. 

  • Useful 1
  • Love 3
Link to comment
4 hours ago, gingerella said:

Yes, count me in on the oddity of Father Bain-of-my-existance's 'performance'. The only thing I can think of is that he planted that person in the audience to respond as such, knowing the fervor of the crowd would be in his favor. I believed him, although I was rather shocked at his repentance, until he shot that look at Claire and it seemed like he was saying 'Check mate bitch'. He's shady as shit. I did like the tie in with the changeling incident too, and it made me remember Jaime's comment to Claire about how "most of these people have never traveled more than two hours from the place where they were born, they know nothing of the outside world, only what Father Bain tells them in the Kirk on Sundays..." or something to that effect. It says that this is an insular place, full of superstition and strange beliefs, despite the fact that what we've seen of social gatherings at the Castle appear quite cultured and perhaps even worldly. I was also perplexed that Castle Leoch and connections to the Laird didn't do any good for Claire, that was surprising to me because I'd have thought the Laird of the land there would be sort of a de facto king of sorts, and that anyone related to him would have never been arrested in the first place. I mean, don't all these men who were trying Claire and Geillis, don't they swear their fealty to Colum too? I'm a little confused about this.

Also, I was hoping that we'd see Leery's expression when Jaime saves Claire, but then again, I'm sure she'd just say he's been bewitched by Claire and that's why he's saving her. I really am beginning to believe that Leery is more of a witch than Geillis ever was, but more along the lines of dark magic. I hate her, I really do. I would be quite happy to know of her demise.

He really was masterful for a while there, wasn't he? I thought it very telling that he told Claire that Colum didn't know he was there and that he'd likely be pissed if he knew. I hadn't thought Claire would be on the wrong side of Colum, she's healed many folks who've come to the castle for medical healing, she's healed his nephew, she's massaged him and brought him pain relief, and she stepped in immediately when Dougal was going off in a drunk tirade over his wife's death. It's not as if Claire has been usurping him, she's been serving in the capacity in which he's asked her to serve, albeit with no ability to leave, but still. She's been doing right by Colum and I'm stymied why Ned thought Colum wouldn't help her. Then again, perhaps he said that because Colum is still angry with him for his participation in the Jacobite army raising money from the rent collection trip? I am also confused as to HOW Ned knew to come to her rescue, and similarly how Jaime knew to come to her rescue as well. I have when we are asked to suspend belief and just accept such life-saving coinkydinks, so I hope that A Story fills this in for us soon. I also wasn't clear at the end of that chaos, when Ned shot off his pistol, will they throw him in the clink too?

Yeah, the whole Geillis is from the future wasn't surprising to me, I figured as much. But what was surprising was her dedication to supporting a Jacobite army and the return of Bonny Prince Charlie! What the everloving fuck was that all about?!? Why would a woman from 1968 want to travel back in time to support something like that? What could possibly be in it for her? The only thing I can think of is that she became dedicated to the cause after she met and fell for Dougal. BUT, she questions Claire in the hold, and is shocked that Claire isn't there to change historic events, intimating that she IS there for that very reason, which negates what I just said about Dougal being her impetus, and rather that this was indeed her plan all along. So.Very.Weird. I do hope we're not done with Geillis yet and that we learn more about that storyline. It feels like too big a bombshell to just drop of us like that and then BAM, she's dead and we can't tell you anything about that anymore. That would be a very GoT type thing to do - get us invested in a story line laden with meaning and then drop it and never return to pick it up again. I hope that this Story is better written, at least for TV, and that we get more of Geillis. I also find it difficult to think Dougal wouldn't have returned with Jaime too.

Yes @Anothermi, I was also really touched that Jaime said 'I believe you. If you say it, then I believe it to be so." Never mind how whackadoodle it sounded. I suppose in a way it makes her oddities all make sense though, why she uses words that he's never heard of, why she knows things he's never heard about. And of course it makes it all the more clear that his path was never meant to be common or typical so being thrown together with Claire makes sense to him. It seems as though Claire is almost shocked at his believing her too, which is endearing. It IS a gift, honesty between partners.

Yes to all of this! I assumed they were at Lallybroch too, but as she crested the hill I started to realize nope, I think he's taken her back to the Stones. I'll admit I'm all in with this couple and I was saddened to think we'd have them separate so soon, it didn't make sense to me, and I was also saddened that there were no great declarations of love, no "I will come back to you" or "I will love you forever", but I think ultimately Jaime loves Claire so deeply and so purely, that much like that old chestnut about King Solomon and the baby, he is willing to give Claire up for her own safety and for what he thinks will be her own happiness. So he's trying to keep it together and just rip the band-aid off quickly because inside he's dying every second thinking about losing this great love of his life. I confess I didn't see the moving of rings, just Claire touching each ring, trying to figure out what she should do. Aside from the HYGIENE, because hey, flush toilets and hot water rock!, what I got from that scene was that each wedding ring stood for completely different paths - Frank's ring was made of precious metal, gold, and it was smooth. Those two things to me symbolized that returning to her life with Frank would be richer in terms of materials goods and means and creature comforts, and it would be a much smoother existence to just go back and be the don's wife at Oxford. When she was touching Jaime's ring, I saw a ring made of iron, not precious metal, and made out of a common key no less! Its surface was dimpled with hammer marks from the blacksmith who made it (not a fancy jeweller) - and to me it symbolized that Claire's life with Jaime was not about a cushy life filled with precious jewelry and comfortable things and lived smoothly without strife. No, Claire's life with Jaime was just like the ring he gave her, it would be a simpler life in many ways, filled with many bumps in the road just like the hammered bumps in the ring itself, but this life with James Fraser, the preciousness would be living and loving with this man, no gold, no smooth sailing would make this life any sweeter. In fact, it was all the bumps and hardships they are still to face that make her life with Jaime precious in a way that life with Frank could never, would never be. All that I got in that short scene of Claire fiddling with two rings. That's some good story telling and some great film shooting if you ask me.

And I also take your point as truth too, that while Frank double-backed to the Stones to try to understand what happened, he just isn't wired in a way that would ever allow him to understand any of this. In fact, if Claire does end up having to go back at some point and ends up back in Frank's time, I have no qualms saying he will not believe what happened to her, and he will be resentful and treat her like a fucking twat, because that is in his DNA of being a relative of Randall. Yet Jaime, this seemingly innocent young man, is able to understand the Stones simply because the woman he loves says it is so. That is damn romantic!

My last comment on the Stones is this - I'm not sure if it's a case of 'Who' or 'When' with being able to travel through them, at least not at this point. I thought immediately that it was a 'who' because when Claire tells Jaime all she did was put her hands on the Stones after she heard this loud buzzing sound,(and not for nothing I thought it was gut wrenching that he grabbed her because he wasn't ready for her to leave just yet) I thought because we heard that buzzing sounds it meant that Claire can move through the Stones any time, not just after a ceremony has occurred there, but we don't know yet if she even tried and nothing happened and that's why she returned to Jaime's campfire, or if she decided NOT to try. I am hoping for the latter, because it would mean it was a conscious decision to stay with Jamie because she knows a life with him will be worth living so much more than her settling for a life with Frank.

ETA: I know I've mentioned this, I think maybe in the last episode, that perhaps Jaime would have ended up with Leery if Claire hadn't showed up, but I truly believe now that Jaime and Claire were always meant to be together, though I don't know if it's just an epic love story or if there is some higher purpose in this couple's existence. In E01 when Murtagh brings Claire to their hide-out after the shoot out in the forest, and she helps Jaime with his shoulder and his wound (I think she dresses he wound there in a makeshift sort of way, doesn't she?) isn't there a line where they're considering leaving Jaime with a gun if he cannot ride, because Redcoats are all around and they need to get back to Leoch quickly? So Jaime would likely have died if Claire hadn't shown up and got him fixed up to the point where he could ride onward with the men. This makes me believe that Leery is a nuisance but was never meant to be no matter how much she'd like that to be so. Again, be off with you, crazy bitch!

Also, Jaime keeps showing up to save Claire, so without him, she would have been raped and/or killed too, so they both exist to keep the other safe. Shit, I had something else I wanted to say and I cannot remember it... AHA! I just remembered what I wanted to say - I found it odd that he'd take Claire to the Stones at that time given that's where Randall's men captured Claire just seemingly a week or so ago, so the likelihood they'd still be in the area is good, no? It seems like a huge risk for him to take, but then again, he will do anything for Claire so...I guess I shouldn't be surprised?

Lastly, when Jaime awakens by the fire to see Claire standing there, he seems truly surprised, and after I rewatched that scene a few times I realized there is a tear streaming down his face when she says "Take me home to Lallybroch".  Damn. And so, to A Show I must say, "I came to you at Netflix with nothing but an empty mind and me bare hands...when I heard your opening song...You're tearing me guts out, Show..."

I’m having a hard time commenting without giving spoilers, but on the comment wondering how Jamie knew about the trial, I think the assumption was that Ned sent someone to tell him. And I forget now how Ned knew, maybe Leery was yapping about it back at the castle or maybe since he’s a lawyer, he hears of trials going on. I can’t remember now.  Regardless, they’re all just assumptions I think. 
 
If you guys watch The Last Kingdom let me know where your comments are for that series.  The board for that show is dead on this website. Lol

Edited by Beeyago
  • Useful 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment

@Beeyago, I can only handle one epic series at a time so The Last Kingdom will have to wait as my heart belongs to Outlander for now...

And thank you for being thoughtful with your replies so as not to spoiler us, we very much appreciate that!

Your comments do make sense. Im.sure.Ned has eyes and ears in the village that would tell him of the trial. I mean, they'd know site was from the castle so...

  • Love 3
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, gingerella said:

@Beeyago, I can only handle one epic series at a time so The Last Kingdom will have to wait as my heart belongs to Outlander for now...

And thank you for being thoughtful with your replies so as not to spoiler us, we very much appreciate that!

Your comments do make sense. Im.sure.Ned has eyes and ears in the village that would tell him of the trial. I mean, they'd know site was from the castle so...

I totally get that. Haha. I just watched Outlander for the first time late last summer, couldn’t bring myself to even attempt a new epic series until a couple months ago when I watched The Last Kingdom:)

  • Love 2
Link to comment
44 minutes ago, Beeyago said:

I totally get that. Haha. I just watched Outlander for the first time late last summer, couldn’t bring myself to even attempt a new epic series until a couple months ago when I watched The Last Kingdom:)

I like Last Kingdom a lot, I hope they are filming a new season of that while we speak ( haven’t heard, assume there was a covid delay).  We may have to rewatch that all by the time we get a new season. Usually these threads are all dead unless the shows are currently airing new seasons. 

  • Love 3
Link to comment
2 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

Usually these threads are all dead unless the shows are currently airing new seasons. 

Which makes it nice for us new Unsullieds to have a few folks to bat around ideas with, thank you? 

  • Love 3
Link to comment
8 hours ago, gingerella said:

Which makes it nice for us new Unsullieds to have a few folks to bat around ideas with, thank you? 

The hardest part now though is to not say “ wow you are so insightful, or  just wait! “

8 hours ago, gingerella said:

Which makes it nice for us new Unsullieds to have a few folks to bat around ideas with, thank you? 

I came to it late as well, watched in2017, found this site in early 2018, & yeah, I would post something but no one was here to reply. 

Edited by Cdh20
Adding a thought!
  • Love 3
Link to comment
On 3/18/2021 at 10:32 PM, Anothermi said:

Claire: Is that what I think it is?

Geillis: Well, it's not a may pole Claire.

They could have taken that show on the road—in another series.

I DO love their banter.  

On 3/18/2021 at 10:32 PM, Anothermi said:

And his acceptance of it without reservation. It touched me because I think we're all looking for someone who will accept us for who we are and that is the gift that Claire gets.  I did like when he joked he'd have found it easier to accept that she was a witch. Much need levity.

Then when he asks her if she's ready to go home and she's accepted that Lallybroch will be her home—he takes her to the standing stones. Where she has to choose. That segment has me thinking it is more the “certain people” rather than “at certain times” that determines who the stones will transport.  But they set up the final decision well for us viewers. I couldn't see her leaving Jamie after he had accepted and trusted her completely, even if she was torn. Frank would never have been capable of that.

I'm a firm believe that Frank resents her specialness.  

On 3/18/2021 at 10:32 PM, Anothermi said:

It appeared that she'd moved the gold ring to her left hand and the key ring to her right to prepare.

Claire has always worn Jamie's ring on her right.  It is my understanding that some cultures/religions do this, and that many European Catholics wear their wedding rings on their right hands.  

19 hours ago, gingerella said:

what I got from that scene was that each wedding ring stood for completely different paths - Frank's ring was made of precious metal, gold, and it was smooth. Those two things to me symbolized that returning to her life with Frank would be richer in terms of materials goods and means and creature comforts, and it would be a much smoother existence to just go back and be the don's wife at Oxford. When she was touching Jaime's ring, I saw a ring made of iron, not precious metal, and made out of a common key no less! Its surface was dimpled with hammer marks from the blacksmith who made it (not a fancy jeweller) - and to me it symbolized that Claire's life with Jaime was not about a cushy life filled with precious jewelry and comfortable things and lived smoothly without strife. No, Claire's life with Jaime was just like the ring he gave her, it would be a simpler life in many ways, filled with many bumps in the road just like the hammered bumps in the ring itself, but this life with James Fraser, the preciousness would be living and loving with this man, no gold, no smooth sailing would make this life any sweeter. In fact, it was all the bumps and hardships they are still to face that make her life with Jaime precious in a way that life with Frank could never, would never be. All that I got in that short scene of Claire fiddling with two rings. That's some good story telling and some great film shooting if you ask me.

Ahhh.  Again, your analysis amazes me.  How gorgeously put this all is.  Along this vein, interesting that in the Wedding, Claire can see her reflection in Frank's ring.  She knows what her life would be like with him.  She can see it.  

19 hours ago, gingerella said:

Lastly, when Jaime awakens by the fire to see Claire standing there, he seems truly surprised, and after I rewatched that scene a few times I realized there is a tear streaming down his face when she says "Take me home to Lallybroch".  Damn. And so, to A Show I must say, "I came to you at Netflix with nothing but an empty mind and me bare hands...when I heard your opening song...You're tearing me guts out, Show..."

YESSSSSS!!!!!

 

I have so many other things to add to what has been said, but I don't trust myself to open a box that cannot be closed.  Must. Be. Patient.  

Also, Last Kingdom...highly recommend.  But Uhtred is no Jamie Fraser, ye ken?

  • Love 2
Link to comment
1 hour ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Claire has always worn Jamie's ring on her right.  It is my understanding that some cultures/religions do this, and that many European Catholics wear their wedding rings on their right hands.  

Ah. I had to go back to the Wedding to confirm that. I hadn't paid attention to which hand Jamie put the ring on in that episode—too much other stuff to try to catch. I also missed that Claire took Frank's ring off one hand but Jamie's ring was put on the other.  So, when I rewatched Claire at the Stones deciding to go or stay, I just assumed the Left hand was the norm and noticed Franks was on the Left hand in that scene. The show certainly didn't  mention that the Right hand was the tradition. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Ahhh.  Again, your analysis amazes me.  How gorgeously put this all is.  Along this vein, interesting that in the Wedding, Claire can see her reflection in Frank's ring.  She knows what her life would be like with him.  She can see it.  

Thanks! And you are spot on with the above bolded, she can see her life with Frank in her ring's reflection, and she feels as stuck as the ring is between the floorboards.

One thing I wondered about this episode is this - does it not compute with Claire that Geillis says "About your question, I think it IS possible...1968!" There is immediate commotion of Ned's pistol going off, and then Claire is grabbed and hauled across the floor and we never hear her think about, or share with Jaime that Geillis might have been a time traveler too. I hope that thread gets picked up again somewhere. I wonder if Claire will think of it next time she's at the Stones - because I'm sure she's going somewhere again during this story - and if she ends up in 1968 instead of 1943...?

  • Useful 1
Link to comment
10 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

 

Also, Last Kingdom...highly recommend.  But Uhtred is no Jamie Fraser

My husband’s exact words when Uhtred brings his girlfriend home to meet his wife! 

 

Edited by Cdh20
  • LOL 2
Link to comment
On 12/26/2015 at 6:34 PM, Rose1950 said:

If Giellis Duncan came from 1968, how could she be there already when Claire came from 1945?

The 1945 housekeeper said the stones send people different places and to different times.  We don’t even know if Gillis ( sp) came through the same exact stone or not. 
I felt all along that she might be a fellow  traveler.  She caught a lot of Claire’s strange sayings and odd mannerisms. I do not think she came  back on purpose.  I don’t think she cared about Jacobites as much as she cared about Dougal. 

It sounds as if Colum helped Letty get them arrested.  Either to get rid of Dougal’s  lover or Claire, because he wants Jamie to be Laird after him. 
I do not believe Claire ‘chose’ Jamie.  I think the stones  didn't work in an ‘ordinary’ day but she didn’t know that.  So she thinks she had no choice but to remain and she will now make the best of it. 

Link to comment
9 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I do not believe Claire ‘chose’ Jamie.  I think the stones  didn't work in an ‘ordinary’ day but she didn’t know that.  So she thinks she had no choice but to remain and she will now make the best of it. 

Except that Claire heard the "buzzing" when Jamie took her there, and he pulled her back for one last good-bye. The same sound was there when she first fell through the stones.

Claire did choose Jamie. Ron Moore just did a very bad job of showing us that. She isn't settling for Jamie.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
20 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Except that Claire heard the "buzzing" when Jamie took her there, and he pulled her back for one last good-bye. The same sound was there when she first fell through the stones.

Claire did choose Jamie. Ron Moore just did a very bad job of showing us that. She isn't settling for Jamie.

Why did he choose not to show us?  Seems like that would be an important thing to portray as opposed to having the audience wonder.  Whether it’s a choice or an acceptance of reality makes a difference going forward.  
Claire isn’t really a romantic person.  She’s a pragmatic one.     I find it hard  to fathom that she would  give up the 1945 type of life for 1743 hardships.  Regardless of whether a particular man  or no man at all is present in either timeline. Because I don’t think she would go back with Frank if she went to 1945. 
She is not in danger of being burned at the stake, flogged  or confronting BJR  in 1945.

Since we weren’t shown her choice, I must assume that Claire goes  back to the stones  again later.  

Edited by mythoughtis
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Why did he choose not to show us?  Seems like that would be an important thing to portray as opposed to having the audience wonder.  Whether it’s a choice or an acceptance of reality makes a difference going forward.  
Claire isn’t really a romantic person.  She’s a pragmatic one.     I find it hard  to fathom that she would  give up the 1945 type of life for 1743 hardships.  Regardless of whether a particular man  or no man at all is present in either timeline. 
She is not in danger of being burned at the stake, flogged  or confronting BJR  in 1945

I just realized that they split this into no buik talk/and buik talk, and this is the no book talk, so I can't explain in this thread why Ron went this route.

But we saw-in show-Claire telling Jamie, that what was between them wasn't usual; it was different. It wasn't just the sex. It was also the emotion behind it.

She wasn't pragmatic when she was with Jamie, as we saw. Yes, marrying him was pragmatic; but what followed on their wedding night; and in the Highlands before returning to Craig Na Dunh, wasn't any kind of pragmatism I've ever seen.

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I just realized that they split this into no buik talk/and buik talk, and this is the no book talk, so I can't explain in this thread why Ron went this route.

But we saw-in show-Claire telling Jamie, that what was between them wasn't usual; it was different. It wasn't just the sex. It was also the emotion behind it.

She wasn't pragmatic when she was with Jamie, as we saw. Yes, marrying him was pragmatic; but what followed on their wedding night; and in the Highlands before returning to Craig Na Dunh, wasn't any kind of pragmatism I've ever seen.

True.   I’m just musing out loud.  And late to the party at that.  I read ( and watch) plenty of time traveling romance, so I’m well aware  that the choice is often made.   Just hard for me to fathom since I can’t stand it when my electricity  is out or my car isn’t in my driveway.  Plus, I’m having hard time seeing these two as soulmates - but yes, that’s where the storyline wants to take them.  
 

Edited by mythoughtis
Link to comment

mythoughts 

If you read through this thread, there are many posters who feel the same as you! They cannot imagine choosing Jamie over modern conveniences. 
 

Most of us have also watched this show more than once, (way more than once) so we forget what it was like on our first round, when we had no idea what was coming, how the story would play out.

Maybe the show runner wanted it to look questionable that Claire made a choice, but I never questioned that she was going to choose Jamie! ♥️♥️♥️

Link to comment
On 8/9/2022 at 11:36 PM, mythoughtis said:

I felt all along that she might be a fellow  traveler.  She caught a lot of Claire’s strange sayings and odd mannerisms.

And she mentioned the Goddess and the Earth Mother when she did that dance, which are things syncretic neopagan religions talk about but real historical pagans wouldn't have in so many words.

Link to comment
On 8/9/2022 at 8:36 PM, mythoughtis said:

I felt all along that she might be a fellow  traveler.  She caught a lot of Claire’s strange sayings and odd mannerisms. I do not think she came  back on purpose.  I don’t think she cared about Jacobites as much as she cared about Dougal. 

It sounds as if Colum helped Letty get them arrested.  Either to get rid of Dougal’s  lover or Claire, because he wants Jamie to be Laird after him. 
I do not believe Claire ‘chose’ Jamie.  I think the stones  didn't work in an ‘ordinary’ day but she didn’t know that.  So she thinks she had no choice but to remain and she will now make the best of it. 

To the first bolded, how would Geillis even know about Dougal in the first place if she was a time traveler from Claire's original time? I'm putting that to you as a query...

As for the latter bolded, I most definitely disagree. I believe that Claire absolutely chose a life with Jamie over a life with Frank. Why do you think she didn't choose Jamie?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
42 minutes ago, gingerella said:

To the first bolded, how would Geillis even know about Dougal in the first place if she was a time traveler from Claire's original time? I'm putting that to you as a query...

As for the latter bolded, I most definitely disagree. I believe that Claire absolutely chose a life with Jamie over a life with Frank. Why do you think she didn't choose Jamie?

My thoughts  on Geillis caring more about Dougal than the Jacobites would be that she didn’t come to the 1700s to change the past - but once she met Dougal, his cause became her cause.  Now if she really did manage to come to this particular time and place on purpose, then maybe she did mean to change the past. I’m not sold on the fact that she could control the stones, rather than just try to use them. 

As of this episode, I do not feel that Claire was sold on giving up modern conveniences for a life in the 1700s- regardless of the men involved.  

Edited by mythoughtis
Link to comment
5 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

My thoughts  on Geillis caring more about Dougal than the Jacobites would be that she didn’t come to the 1700s to change the past - but once she met Dougal, his cause became her cause.  Now if she really did manage to come to this particular time and place on purpose, then maybe she did mean to change the past. I’m not sold on the fact that she could control the stones, rather than just try to use them. 

As of this episode, I do not feel that Claire was sold on giving up modern conveniences for a life in the 1700s- regardless of the men involved.  

Thanks for explaining that! 

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...