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Tara Ariano

S30.E08: Keep It Real

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I'm not totally sure Dan is playing a character.  Jeff has often said (okay, so take it with a grain of salt) that being in Survivor conditions for 40 days makes it hard for you to keep up facades.  I know for me that would be true.  I guess it would be easier to overplay your personality than underplay it, though, so maybe he is choosing to emphasize horrific aspects of himself that he might otherwise not.  Let's hope so.

 

Dan, on the other hand, thinks he's a great guy and that he's always right, and that even if he's doing or saying something that would be wrong for most people, everyone will see that it's okay in his case as soon as He Explains It Slowly And With Good Enunciation.

 

YES, thank you fishcakes, the Good Enunciation kills me!!

 

I was just looking for Jeff Probst's Q&A with Dalton Ross on EW (one of the only article sources that I normally read).  I had to click through his recap for the episode first, http://www.ew.com/recap/survivor-season-30-episode-8 .  I didn't read the whole article, but he starts off by saying, "I’m in. As of this episode, I am officially in."  ... !?!?!?!  and also ???!!! for good measure.  I'm so confused by that statement.  I'm never going to be one of the people who says "I'm so out this cast is so disgusting I'm done 4eva" because it's still Survivor and I, personally, am in to the bitter end, but this episode was hard to watch for all the reasons discussed above.

 

Oh, that article also references that "Jeff Probst talked up season 30 big time. Said it was maybe his favorite cast ever" which people were wondering about above.

 

Re: the Jewish thing: bugs me too when people say someone "looks" Jewish.  The worst part is, in my case, it's always one specific Jewish friend I have who is berating me for not knowing somebody is Jewish based on their looks.

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I wish I could give you 1,000,000,000 likes, saying someone does or does not look Jewish puts my teeth on edge. You never hear anyone say so & so doesn't look Baptist, or Methodist, or Hindu, so unless they happen to be wearing a Yarmlke & long curly sideburns, how can you look like a religion?

 

I had a Jewish roommate in Minnesota who was blond and fairly Nordic looking, and he hated any reference to being Jewish as anything resembling an ethnicity.  He beat that same drum you are, very emphatically.  But when I lived in NYC, I had many Jewish friends who emphatically insisted that it was both a religion and an ethnicity, and in fact given how secular and non-observant they were, more of an ethnicity/tribe than a religion to them.

 

I just hate seeing the assholes getting rewarded. I think Mike is just as misogynist as the other two, he just hides it better, and he's smarter. I can totally see this play out in torturous slow agony with only the three assholes left with Mike deciding which of the two Rodney or Dan is the biggest stupidest goat he can use.

 

I was thinking maybe Rodney and Dan might actually want to take Shirin to F3.  But I'll say more about that in the Speculation thread.

 

I used to have people tell me I "looked Jewish,"  all the time and all those people  telling me that were Jewish.

 

Yes, I have heard this about myself countless times, always from Jewish people--both secular and Orthodox.  I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as long as it's not implied to be a negative thing (which, coming from Jewish people, seems unlikely).

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I don't know why Joe shares the clue with Tyler? How does that benefit him? Tyler's not in his allience yet. Joe didn't woo anybody during the reward. Maybe that's just editing. He didn't share the clue with his alliance. What is going on with him? Is his plan just to win every single immunity challenge? He's not helping his alliance, and what's worse, he's hurting his alliance.

 

First off, you should not share the clue with somebody that's not in your alliance. It's 4 against 7. You need a miracle. You need to share the clue with your alliance. Then all go off one by one in search for it, in case somebody is tailing you. Better than a whole horde shadowing one person. When you find it, use it immediately. Try and find out who they are voting for. If you can't get any intel, at worst it's 50/50 chance.

 

I don't mind Sierra voting with the majority. It's probably best for her at this point, even though she hates the boys. Maybe her plan was to side with Tyler, Carolyn, and Will, when they get to the final 7. But it seems like Will is totally buying into what Rodney says to him; final 4.

 

Tyler and Carolyn are the secret power couple. They probably try to make a move after getting to the final 7. So you got Tyler and Carolyn sub-alliance. Sierra bidding her time. No collars will just get picked off one by one. Joe didn't do anything to help his alliance. Maybe his plan is to keep winning immunity challenges. LOL. I'm so not voting for him, even though I support the No collars.

 

Sierra needs to recognize what's going on between Will and Rodney. When the time comes, when 2 No collars are gone, round up the remaining 2 No collars, get Tyler and Carolyn and form an alliance. Then its 5 against 4. Off with the misogynistic boys.

 

Mike does have the hidden idol though. And he does not trust Rodney. Maybe he'll shake things up as well when the time comes, and my plans/hopes won't even matter.

Edited by hyukx3
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Guest

Just to add to the "fun". In Hali's interview with Dalton Ross she mentions that Shirin has been a victim of domestic violence. I hope to god that was not common knowledge when they were playing the game but she was quite shaken when she saw that Dan interview.

Who was quite shaken when they saw what Dan interview?  Edit- Never mind, I read the EW stuff.  Shirin was shaken when she saw Dan suggesting in a confessional that someone should 'slap her and shut her up', I think.  

 

It seems like Dan is playing for a villain callback.  I hate that they invite villains back but I guess they need to find ways to make people ham it up and play the asshole out there.  The show probably tells them in advance-- if you win, your villainy act won't make the edit, most likely.  If you don't, it might.  Why not play all your angles?  

Edited by Guest

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A few quick thoughts since most of my thoughts have already been voiced by others:

 

1. This season just took a turn for the dull.  The next 3-4 weeks looks like a standard Pagonging, which means we'll be "treated" to episodes of utterly nonsensical editing in order to preserve the nonexistent suspense.

 

2. I wanted to like Carolyn, I really did.  But man, is she obnoxious. And sitting on your ass waiting for others to implode while you have an idol in your pocket might be good game play, but it sure is boring TV.

 

3. Dan's a real passive-aggressive little coward, isn't he?  He thinks he can get away with spewing the most vile, insulting things he can think of if he just follows it with "just trying to be nice," or "I'm just being honest."  A vile, worthless man.

 

4. I don't like Mike but he's playing a good game.  I'd love to see him blindsided with his idol unplayed, though.

 

5. Word to all the commenters who pointed out that the NoCols are supposed to be superfans but seem to have no idea how to play this game.  Huddling in your insular little clique just waiting to be picked off isn't great gameplay, folks. 

 

6. I don't care how irritating Shirin may be in real life, I love her just for the enemies she's made.

 

7. So, thanks to Mike, I guess from now on merged team names are going to get more and more ridiculously faux patriotic.  Silly me, I remember when Survivor seasons at least made a stab at celebrating the cultures of the countries they were set in. 

 

8. And lastly, I wouldn't go by what Probst says.  He announces EVERY season as the greatest season ever and every cast as the most memorable and every twist as the most earthshattering and every blindside as the most unexpected and ....

Edited by Gummo
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7. So, thanks to Mike, I guess from now on merged team names are going to get more and more ridiculously faux patriotic.  Silly me, I remember when Survivor seasons at least made a stab at celebrating the cultures of the countries they were set in.

 

Actually, according to a few Hali interviews, she heavily hints that she may be the one ultimately responsible for the merged tribe name.  This one in particular made me laugh:

 

 

Q: I Can’t think of anyone better than you to give me a history lesson on the origin of Merica. Can you tell me how you all came up with the tribe name?

Hali:  I… [Laughs] I don’t want to.

Q:  Is it that embarrassing? Is it that horrible?

Hali:  Yeah, because I’m intricately involved! [Laughs] You know, I’m really happy leaving the origins of Merica as murky as they are. It comes off pretty clear on the show that Mike is the originator, and I am passing him that baton and saluting him. I’m happy for him to get all the credit.

Q:  Maybe some day the history books will tell the full story.

IHali:  ’ll let you know that the merge feast’s wine played no small role in the origins of Merica.

Edited by pennben
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Pennben, thanks for the link.  Seems like Hali has the same opinion of Dan as the rest of us:

 

 

[Rodney's] smarter than he comes across. Different people have different opinions on Rodney, but his chauvinism is almost endearing because it’s so simple. I guess I respect his gameplay. Rodney’s just Rodney.

 

Dan, on the other hand? I think the difference between him and Rodney is that Dan has a hypocritical side to him. He presents himself, from his own mouth, as a family guy who loves his wife. And then you hear him with these scathing, disgusting comments about women. I think hypocrisy can taint… it’s just worse than being straight-up bad. When you’re trying to put yourself up as a saint, it’s just really gross.

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I also have problems with the way the show is being edited. They should show more of how the contestent are doing to outwit and outplay, instead of editing the important stuff that you have to find out through interviews, the finale, just to keep the suspense.

 

How they actually come to their decisions before tribal is more important than the vote itself, for me as a viewer.

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Rodney: "I'm the realest dude in this game."

Jenn: "I fucking hate you."

Jenn for President of Earth. That is all.

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I wish I could give you 1,000,000,000 likes, saying someone does or does not look Jewish puts my teeth on edge. You never hear anyone say so & so doesn't look Baptist, or Methodist, or Hindu, so unless they happen to be wearing a Yarmlke & long curly sideburns, how can you look like a religion?

 

True, one can not look like a religion. There are ethnic divisions within religions that are primarily a result of geography and how the religion spread to different regions.

People who say such things as, "she looks Jewish" rarely know they are being offensive.

Have pity on their ignorance and be "calm, cool, and collective" like Rodney.

It is such a pet peeve of mine. I just find it to be a very ignorant thing to say and, as I mentioned before, it is pretty offensive because "looking Jewish" is not considered flattering and it seems like one way to put down different ethnic groups is to "subtly" tell them they're weird-looking. Like "you look like this group the doesn't fit the Western standards of attractiveness". Gross. 

 

And again, I just don't get assuming Jews have this one look. I feel like most people in North America are just totally unaware that Ethiopian and Asian Jews exist. If they knew that, they would see that you can't stereotype Jews and that even if you consider Jews an ethnic groups, as well as a religious one, Jews can look like anything.

 

Yes, I should just pity of their ignorance, but it's difficult! But you're right and it's hilarious that you're citing advice on ignorance from Rodney of all people.

 

 

Re: the Jewish thing: bugs me too when people say someone "looks" Jewish.  The worst part is, in my case, it's always one specific Jewish friend I have who is berating me for not knowing somebody is Jewish based on their looks.

 

Yes, I have heard this about myself countless times, always from Jewish people--both secular and Orthodox.  I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as long as it's not implied to be a negative thing (which, coming from Jewish people, seems unlikely).

I could see how people might think it's okay if it comes from someone else who's Jewish. But I think it's still problematic because a) then non-Jews think it's okay to use it in an unflattering way and b) I think a lot of Jews say that because they've internalized a lot of negative stereotypes about themselves and pretend they're okay with them or even joke about them in order to gain acceptance. And I think that's unfortunate in the sense that a lot of time internalizing these stereotypes leads to self-hating (for all types of minorities, not just religious ones). And I don't think that's cool. 

 

Anyway, on the subject of the episode:

 

I like Hali, but in some ways I think it's sad that she's so commended for just acting like a normal human being. Like "Hali is amazing because she didn't bully Shirin!! Wooohooo!" I guess it speaks to how awful the cast is this season. And I know that every season people say it is the worst cast ever, but this one is really up there for me. I can't remember hating so many of the players so intensely before.

 

I mentioned before that I don't think the NC tried hard enough to pull in other people. I'm starting to think that part of the problem is that Joe and Hali were likable, but aloof, and Jenn is unlikable outside that group of 3. In some of Hali's exit interviews she mentions that the BC might have targeted her instead of Jenn because Hali was more of a threat as a social player. And I think this interview from Max sums up what Jenn's social game is like:

 

 

Some of the folks I encountered on No Collar, on the other hand, it was like trying to carry on a conversation with a Cabbage Patch doll. There was no give and take. There was no back and forth. When you see me in that shot going out of my way trying to find something to connect with Jenn on, I’m thinking she’s a No Collar, she may be interested in astrology. That’s me desperately trying to reach out and connect to someone who, from the moment I arrived on that beach, greets me with a sneer and folded arms and an us-vs.-you mentality.

Edited by wudpixie
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When you see me in that shot going out of my way trying to find something to connect with Jenn on, I’m thinking she’s a No Collar, she may be interested in astrology.

 

Patronizing, much?

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And lastly, I wouldn't go by what Probst says.  He announces EVERY season as the greatest season ever and every cast as the most memorable and every twist as the most earthshattering and every blindside as the most unexpected and ....

And he seems to think we should believe him each and every time! If any of us ever get on this show, please, please, please say "Shut up, Probst!" every chance you get! Deal?

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Patronizing, much?

Well, we don't really know how many "normal" topics were shot down before that point. It might have been sheer desperation. Remember all the crazy shit that Coach spewed? Especially in his first season. Shane threatening to come over and burn Courtney's apartment down? Robb (he of the Clay-throttling, bringing a skateboard to a beach infamy)? Whatserface that was missing (or was it talking to?) her washing machine back home? We've had some seriously bizarre people on this show.

 

ETA: Sorry for the double post. I seriously thought they'd combine into one that close together.

Edited by riley702
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It would be fun to have Rodney at the final tribal. Telling everyone that he has been collective all season and that the girls would be holding themselves to a higher regard if they voted for him.  And when they ask what he did to deserve the win, he could tell them all the plans he had that didn't work out.

 

needschocolate this was so damn funny.  

 

This thread is turning into a F/M/K of Russell, Rodney, and Dan.  I guess we're all or most in consensus that we'd kill Dan and let Rodney be the babysitter.  I'd go on the date with Russell.  I think he is fascinating.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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I'm starting to think that Jeff's hype about this season doesn't just mean a guy wins, but that it's an all-male final 3. I would say it's Joe, Mike and Rodney, but I don't think all 3 can work together for that long. So maybe 2 out of the 3. I'm shuddering at the thought.

 

Also, when Dan was giving that disgusting lecture in the water to Shirin about how she, Jenn and Hali are just viewed as Joe's minions, did anyone else think "ummmm and you don't think you're viewed as one of Mike's minions, if even that?!?!?!?!?" Of course this point is lost on someone like Dan who has zero self-awareness, but I thought it was horrifying/amusing. (And I will say once again, that Joe isn't even running that alliance. But Dan and Rondey could never admit that it's a giiiiiiiirl pulling the strings. It's too threatening for them, even though they aren't even in that alliance. Just the idea that women could be leaders in anything is horrible and ruining the world, obvs).

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Ok here is a link but it's only about the twist: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/02/24/jeff-probst-names-his-favorite-survivor-winner-non-winner-twist-challenge-and

 

BEST TWIST

“Up through season 29, I would say my favorite twist is probably the hidden immunity idol. It’s just given us so much story that I laugh when people hit me on Twitter and say, ‘You should do a season without any idols and without any twists.’ And I say, ‘You know, if you think through that for a minute, this is why you can’t always listen to the audience because that makes no sense.’ That’s given us so much story, and when Russell started finding them without clues it evolved yet again. But I will say, in season 30, the theme excites me as much as anything we’ve ever done. Because it’s so real. It’s a real thing. People really are White, Blue, or No Collar. People are going to ask themselves, which one am I? "

 

No Jeff, we're NOT ALL white, blue or no collars. Most of us fit in all of those categories at one time or another. Anyone involved in the creative arts has likely had to support themselves with either blue or white collar jobs. Most university and college students have had to support themselves thru school, usually in blue collar positions. And many people successful in the blue collar positions decide to move into management (read white collar) positions within their field. I hate these kinds of generalizations. I like seeing the different aspects of a competitior and don't get the appeal of dumbing them down into one-dimensional characters. Just lazy directing in my opinion.

needschocolate this was so damn funny.  

 

This thread is turning into a F/M/K of Russell, Rodney, and Dan.  I guess we're all or most in consensus that we'd kill Dan and let Rodney be the babysitter.  I'd go on the date with Russell.  I think he is fascinating.

Hmm, nope, you can't speak for me. I'd skip the date and stay home with the kid myself. I wouldn't want any of those three to have any sort of personal contact with myself nor my child. Find it sad that anyone thinks nasty men are "interesting" and/or attractive. If you read the early comments on Joe, many posters thought he was too feminine to be appealing. I myself prefer my men to have empathy and to be able to treat women as equals. Sociopaths aren't sexy nor masculine. 

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This thread is turning into a F/M/K of Russell, Rodney, and Dan.  I guess we're all or most in consensus that we'd kill Dan and let Rodney be the babysitter.  I'd go on the date with Russell.  I think he is fascinating.

Only with a stun gun in my pocket.

 

PreBabylonia, I work in a hospital and consider myself a professional (my brain is more important to my patients than my brawn), but I definitely don't give any orders and probably fall on the blue-collar end of the pay scale. It's a conundrum why Jeff thinks it's all so cut-and-dried.

Edited by riley702
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I think I'm out. I really can't stand most of these people and the people I can halfway stand are going to go one by one. Just give Mike the million and let me call it a day.

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Khaleesi doesn't typically snark on appearances, but I appreciated this gem about Dan:

"He is just ugly on the inside. And on the outside, he looks like he's wearing one of those troll heads from Face|Off."

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You know, this episode has made me think fondly of Tocantins.  I feel like the last time I saw such relentless assholery as Dan's in this episode was when Tyson was browbeating Sierra to cry for no goddamn reason, just to be as huge an asshole as he could possibly be...and then he got, for my money, the single most delicious blindside ever on Survivor.  Dan was setting himself up for a Tyson-style fall.  The editors were setting him up like a tee-ball.  All was in readiness for a wonderful moment: Dan's face going white, Rodney looking around confused, a quiet look of satisfaction on the faces of Shirin and Sierra.  It was all there waiting, like Chekov's gun.  And then collectively everyone whiffed it, and poor Hali goes to Ponderosa, and it's Dan and Carolyn smiling smug smiles of evil, another girl down, heh heh heh.  It's backwards, it's all wrong.  I don't watch these newfangled depressing TV shows like Game of Thrones (apologies to Khaleesi) and Breaking Bad because this is the sort of stuff they're all about--"hey look at this great guy you like, and this horrendous person you hate; of course you expect the hero to win, right? but hahaha not anymore, FOOLED YOU, horrendous guy wins and great guy dies horribly!  What, you're upset?  How immature."

 

I don't watch those shows.  I watch Survivor, because on Survivor, Sierra outlasts Tyson, Russell loses, Kim wins.  When assholes win it's because they're magnificent assholes.  I feel like I'm watching the wrong show.  I guess they think America's Hero, Blue Collar Mike saves the day, but it doesn't work for me.  And so I am sad.

Edited by KimberStormer
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You know, this episode has made me think fondly of Tocantins.  I feel like the last time I saw such relentless assholery as Dan's in this episode was when Tyson was browbeating Sierra to cry for no goddamn reason, just to be as huge an asshole as he could possibly be...and then he got, for my money, the single most delicious blindside ever on Survivor.  Dan was setting himself up for a Tyson-style fall.  The editors were setting him up like a tee-ball.  All was in readiness for a wonderful moment: Dan's face going white, Rodney looking around confused, a quiet look of satisfaction on the faces of Shirin and Sierra.  It was all there waiting, like Chekov's gun.  And then collectively everyone whiffed it, and poor Hali goes to Ponderosa, and it's Dan and Carolyn smiling smug smiles of evil, another girl down, heh heh heh.  It's backwards, it's all wrong.  I don't watch these newfangled depressing TV shows like Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad because this is the sort of stuff they're all about--"hey look at this great guy you like, and this horrendous person you hate; of course you expect the hero to win, right? but hahaha not anymore, FOOLED YOU, horrendous guy wins and great guy dies horribly!  What, you're upset?  How immature."

 

I don't watch those shows.  I watch Survivor, because on Survivor, Sierra outlasts Tyson, Russell loses, Kim wins.  When assholes win it's because they're magnificent assholes.  I feel like I'm watching the wrong show.  I guess they think America's Hero, Blue Collar Mike saves the day, but it doesn't work for me.  And so I am sad.

 

I'm so bitter about the whole Dan vote and Sierra/Tyler bailing that I hope they go down.  Carolyn too.  May they get blindsided, and when they get to Ponderosa, get a shrug from those they didn't want to work with and be told 'it didn't have to end this way'.  Since this show considers almost every boot that isn't a Nina a blindside, I'm sure we're still in store for those.  Obviously, if the remaining NC get picked off, and that looks like it will happen, someone will be at the bottom and is getting screwed.  Mike's idol will probably mess up whatever Rodney and company have in store, and at that point I think Rodney will ditch his alliance and go back to Mike and the gang.  Frankly that's how it's going for me, is I want Sierra to think she has a lock on the million by taking Rodney and Dan, only to be told that she played a crap game and that that was her only big move was to do nothing but follow Mike and then take 2 goats to the end, so no money for her.  For Carolyn, I want them to say she didn't want to play with them, so they aren't giving her any money either.  I don't know what to make of Tyler's game, but I'm sure I could find some bitter jury comments there.  If flippers don't win like Dan claims, sorry Will, no million for you, either.  Yeah, this season has got me to the point where I want the very people I detest to pull off a win, strictly because those keeping them around probably consider them good fodder.  And I want some epic blindsides of people who put their trust in the wrong people, even if it furthers those that I hate.

 

So yeah, I thought Survivor loved an underdog story, but I guess they have to play make believe with that this season, because it isn't going to happen.  And this season seemed so promising all those weeks ago.  In binge watching past Survivor seasons, that makes me nostalgic.  Taking those thoughts to the past seasons thread, but I agree with every word you said.

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PreBabylonia, I work in a hospital and consider myself a professional (my brain is more important to my patients than my brawn), but I definitely don't give any orders and probably fall on the blue-collar end of the pay scale. It's a conundrum why Jeff thinks it's all so cut-and-dried.

 

So, what "collar" is Jeff?  He is a producer, so that makes him white collar.  However, the host job could be considered blue collar - it didn't require a collage degree and someone else even tells him where to stand (plus, aren't his collars literally blue most of the time?).  But spending so much time on islands is definitely a no collar thing.  

 

So yeah, I thought Survivor loved an underdog story, but I guess they have to play make believe with that this season, because it isn't going to happen.  

 

When it comes to Survivor, I think most believe that the underdog is someone who was outnumbered.  However, technically, the definition is "a person who is expected to lose in a contest or conflict."

 

We all expect Dan (and Rodney) to lose - not a good physical player, not a good social player, and not good strategic player.  

 

Yikes!

 

I will continue watching this season because it is what I do, and because I look forward to the wonderfulness that comes when the obnoxious are voted out, especially by a good blindside.  And there are so many obnoxious ones this season that one of them is bound to have a very satisfying torch-snuffing.  They can't all make it to the end.  

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I watch Survivor, because on Survivor, Sierra outlasts Tyson, Russell loses, Kim wins.  When assholes win it's because they're magnificent assholes.  I feel like I'm watching the wrong show.  I guess they think America's Hero, Blue Collar Mike saves the day, but it doesn't work for me.  And so I am sad.

 

I'm legit sad about this season, too, and for these reasons. Sigh. I mean I guess Mike winning is better than it being Dan, Rodney, Tyler, or Carolyn, but I am not happy about it at all. 

 

They can't all make it to the end.  

 

But sadly, 3 of them can, and there's so many assholes that it feels inevitable that the final will consist solely of them.

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Tyler and Carolyn are the secret couple, so they'll vote together. I don't think they bailed on the NC. They're swing votes. Same with Sierra. Sierra probably made the right choice, sticking with the BC. She's just bidding time till she can make a move on the BC boys. Then Will flipped b/c Rodney promised him final 4. Oh well.

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[sierra's] just bidding time till she can make a move on the BC boys.

Tyler and Carolyn are the secret couple ...

I'm moving my replies to the spec thread since they really have nothing to do with this ep. Sorry!

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Sierra doesn't have Will. After 2 NC are gone, she needs to get Tyler, Carolyn, and the surviving 2 NC, for a 5 vs 4 majority. Just hoping right now, coz she did said she's gonna backstab the BC boys, but I don't what's her plan with Will. She didn't talk much with him on the show. And Will's under Rodney control.

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When does she [sierra] think this is gonna happen? Once she's voted out everyone but the BC assholes and has no one to help her get rid of them?

 

She's starting to reming me of Caryn in Palau or Denise in China, i.e. she gives hope to minority players and viewers but ultimately sticks with the dominant group and is screwed. I wish I were wrong, but based on how little we have seen of her (none strategy wise) I'm not holding my breath. She's so gorgeous that I'm sure if she is to be instrumental in some respect in upcoming episodes we would have seen more of her in confessionals by now. {Unless the "twist" is that all strategy remains hidden?...) Of course optimistic watchers can hope for of a "suddenly all over it edit", but we have seen so little personlity from her that I'm not hopeful. Hope I'm proven wrong though, because it would make the season much more exciting. 

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Sierra doesn't have Will. After 2 NC are gone, she needs to get Tyler, Carolyn, and the surviving 2 NC, for a 5 vs 4 majority. Just hoping right now, coz she did said she's gonna backstab the BC boys, but I don't what's her plan with Will. She didn't talk much with him on the show. And Will's under Rodney control.

Replying in the spec thread.

Edited by peachmangosteen

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5. Word to all the commenters who pointed out that the NoCols are supposed to be superfans but seem to have no idea how to play this game.  Huddling in your insular little clique just waiting to be picked off isn't great gameplay, folks.

 

Exactly and wasn't this what they criticized Max and Shirin for? Their own "huddle puddle" as Hali called it? Yet the NC have been so tone-deaf to the social dynamics of the game that they haven't realized that a) it's not good to let everyone think your 3 is unbreakable and everyone else in the alliances comes after and b) that Will has flipped on them twice. In Hali's ponderosa video she thinks that Will voted with them for the last 2 votes and Shirin is the one that flipped on them.

 

I really liked how Shirin deconstructed Dan's "flippers never win" as a fear tactic to prevent his alliance-mates from turning on him. She explained it to everyone else really well and was totally right about it. It's unfortunate no one has listened thus far.

 

In one of the interviewers posted upthread, Jeff talks about how he loves this season's twist because the results are "Shakespearean". I'm thinking that means Rodney and Dan are heading for a fall. I cannot believe they would be edited so badly if they were end-game material. Unless Dan's storyline this season is "how Dan lost and how to make Russell Hantz look socially adept".

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I wouldn't call the NC not socially adept. Maybe they just took one look at the BC is see it's no use to try. And see how fast Kelly left them after the merge. They even talked about it in the show. Kelly just hangs out with Mike immediately. They talked to Taylor and Carolyn though. They were blind about Will. They talked to Sierra a bit too.

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So, what "collar" is Jeff?  He is a producer, so that makes him white collar.  However, the host job could be considered blue collar - it didn't require a collage degree and someone else even tells him where to stand (plus, aren't his collars literally blue most of the time?).  But spending so much time on islands is definitely a no collar thing.

 

I think overall Jeff would qualify as a white collar, but for some reason he is incredibly embarrassed and ashamed of this, so I think I read interviews where he said he'd be a no collar. He really hates white collars, as the artist formerly known as Miss Alli said on twitter, because there is no one more resentful of people he thinks are intellectuals or intelligent than Jeff Probst. That is some inferiority complex he has. Almost at a Dan level.

 

If the assholes do win this season I wonder if he'll be totally shocked when the audience is horrified and disgusted.

 

Even if you take out the incredible unpleasant-ness of the last 2 episodes, post-merge has been boring. There hasn't been any interesting strategy so far.

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Boring and predictable episode.  I’ve got to believe that we had two idol hunting segments because no one on the reward trip bothered to do any strategizing.  (Joe because he may be a fan, but he doesn’t understand the social/political part of the game, Shirin because she loathes and is loathed by Tyler and Carolyn, and the other three because they believe they are in the majority sub-alliance within the side with all the numbers.)

Chekov’s gun alert: They talked about the idols at the original camps, does the original Escamera (blue) idol get found and played in the third act?

 

Merica (Purple)

 

1. Mike (1)  I don’t know what the “Congrats Joe on finding the idol,” plan was - he said something but I tuned it out - but it had the (unintended?) consequence of making the others stop hunting, giving you a hidden HII.  [According to the story presented to us by production.]  He’s either going to play it at the exact right time, (and win this season of Survivor,) or he’ll be blindsided with it in his pocket.

 

2. Dan (5)  The Phillip Sheppard Goat position.  While Rodney is being portrayed as a meathead, Dan is getting a progressively worse edit.  If the interview snippets I’ve seen in this thread are correct, then he is even more disliked by the remaining women than Rodney is.  (Carolyn is a cipher, but I can’t imagine she has escaped being the target of some of Dan’s wisdom.)  There are going to be four of five women on an assumed  eight person jury.  <goat sound>

 

3. Rodney (3)  And, shockingly enough, not for your goat potential.  (You’d probably qualify more as an Ox, anyway.)  While your master plans keep blowing up in your face, because of your inept social play, your strategic thinking has been pretty good - and the editors keep showing it!  Mike is the “leader,” but his (shown) strategy has always been ‘ride the numbers,’ which is great until cannibalization occurs - and we haven’t seen Mike’s plan for that stage.  Tyler has been presented as a passive player.  If you can take some combination of Will/ Carolyn/ and Dan to the (assumed) final three, I think you can win, meatheadness be damned.

 

4. Tyler (4)  I think you are being portrayed too passively to be a serious contender.  You and Carolyn are playing a great swing vote game, without the hubris shown by Jon and Jaclyn last season.  (Perhaps because you are a “secret” pair?)  But I don’t know if you have “done enough” to sway a jury vote at this point.  If your sub-alliance is successful in taking out Mike, I don’t see how you can wrest the credit away from Rodney.

 

5. Carolyn (2) I could have ranked you above Tyler because of your HII, but I’m beginning to suspect that you’ll take it home as a souvenir - either by blindside or passing the point where it can be played.  I’m ranking him ahead of you because I think he’d get more FTC votes than you.  (You have alienated all the women except Sierra that I know of, and the he-man woman hater club out there isn’t going to vote for a woman if someone with testicles is available.)

 

6. Sierra (6)
7. Will (7)  Both invisible this week.

 

8. Shirin (8) I don’t get why so many people dislike you.  Mike had to explain why Hali was more important to take out (strategy) than you (personal.)  Yet another reason I think Mike is a better player than he is getting credit for.  (Because of his allies Dan and Rodney, that ultimately the producers gave him, rather than he chose.)

 

9. Joe (11)
10. Jenn (10)  Mike is playing a long game here.  Joe is a threat, and will likely go the instant he doesn’t win immunity, but Mike would like to keep him around as long as possible to keep the heat off of himself.  I’m thinking Mike might try to swing the vote to Jenn, citing his “belief that Joe has the HII.”

 

OUT  Hali (9)  And, I think HII fears played out here also.  If Joe had the HII, after winning immunity, perhaps he’d give it to his ally that was in the most trouble.  Since Jenn received the votes last tribal, that’d be her, making Hali the “safer” target.

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5. Word to all the commenters who pointed out that the NoCols are supposed to be superfans but seem to have no idea how to play this game.  Huddling in your insular little clique just waiting to be picked off isn't great gameplay, folks. 

memorable and every twist as the most earthshattering and every blindside as the most unexpected and ....

 

I don't think they were doing this at all. We saw just in this last episode them trying to reel in Sierra and Tyler to vote out Dan.  From her exit interviews we learn that Hali spent a lot of time with Mike and thought she had good rapport with him that would have saved her another round. She also mentions that Joe was talking to everybody on the tribe. The same goes with Shirin as well. Whatever they were doing obviously failed but I think it is quite unfair to say that they were just sitting around in their own little clique waiting to be picked off one by one. 

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I knew it. The editing is so heavy on this show. You always get the vibe from the exit interviews, reporter interviews, pandarosa videos, the finales, that they cut a lot of shit out.

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Sierra doesn't have Will. After 2 NC are gone, she needs to get Tyler, Carolyn, and the surviving 2 NC, for a 5 vs 4 majority. Just hoping right now, coz she did said she's gonna backstab the BC boys, but I don't what's her plan with Will. She didn't talk much with him on the show. And Will's under Rodney control.

I think what Sierra has really decided to do is suck it up, overcome the disgust she feels for her blue collar tribe and use this same disgust that she knows most of the people feel for these blue collars (Mike - Dan - Rodney) to her advantage, letting them believe she is following them to the end while what she does is letting them get their hands dirty, let others (the future jury) dislike them and then she will be the good girl who did nobody harm in the final tribal council. What she'll say is "I knew that people disliked Dan, Mike and Rodney so I just let them do the dirty work, I became friends with all of you, I had a say on who to vote out next, etc so now I deserve the million more cause I never treated you bad, I played a social game and I should be rewarded for this, while others were bullying and abusing you".

 

If this happens, I bet Sierra will win. Especially if she wins some challenges later on.

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The boys might think to get rid of her before the finale though. But then again, the girls didn't vote out Boston Rob when it was quite clear that if nobody did anything, nobody has a shot at the million except for Rob. I hate that season so much. Nobody was playing survivor.

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I think NC has been making too many decisions based on emotions. There were much better targets to vote last week than Kelly, but they wanted to vote her off because they felt burned by her. And I think Dan was basically an emotional vote too. I don't think they specifically picked Dan because he was the vote the would best allow them to swing other people over to their side. I think that was just a coincidence. The NC are too passive.

 

There's a secret scene with Jenn where she talks about how she's mad that Joe didn't take her on the reward. She says she's mad because she didn't just play her idol for herself at the last TC, but did it for their alliance. But I think it would only make sense for her to make that claim if she had given her idol to another NC. It's hard for her to say that when it really was self-preservation first and foremost. Which is fine and right, but she shouldn't be whining about how she is owed a reward because she used an idol on herself. That's just dumb. And the secret scene is really whiny and immature. And like I said before, she describes how she's so annoyed, but without saying anything funny or insightful. It's more like "ugh" and *facepalm*. She really does come off as a bratty, sullen teenager sometimes.

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I think we've seen Tyler get caught out for the first time in the game. After being apparently the only one to notice that Joe found the clue to the hidden immunity idol, he (wisely) did not call Joe out, but then had his meeting with Joe about the clue cut short by Mike and told Mike everything in what looked like a panic to me. I'm not sure he would have played it that way if he had had time to think it all through.

 

For instance, it's not clear to me that Mike definitely saw them reading a hidden immunity idol clue. Could Tyler have played it off as Joe just trying to feel him out for an alliance? Even if Mike saw them unrolling the paper and reading the clue (or figured it out based on where the cameramen must have been), there was no reason for Tyler to tell him what it said. Joe had the piece of paper, so Tyler could have told Mike anything about what it said and sent him on a wild goose chase. But you need time to think all of that through and coming up with a convincing lie on the spot isn't easy.

 

I agree with Tyler being caught off guard.  He's been pretty much a non-entity thus far, so we haven't been shown much of his thinking and strategizing.  We do know that he has apparently kept Carolyn's idol a secret, as well as keeping their alliance a secret.  I think he played the Joe situation pretty well - he basically kept his mouth shut and let nervous Joe babble and share the clue.

 

I don't think his telling Mike was as dumb as many here.  He has a solid place in the majority alliance, and his secret #1 has a HII.  Being caught like that without time to think up a believable lie, he chose to protect the sure thing.  If he had been vague about the clue, it may have been obvious.  If he lied about it, Mike could have asked Joe about it.  Perhaps if Tyler had more time, he would have quickly consulted with Carolyn, they would have decided if they wanted to stick with BC or  switch, and it all would have gone more smoothly.

 

Who I'm refusing to feel sorry for is Joe.  He was not obligated to share the clue.  Tyler certainly didn't harass him for details.  And Joe picked the time and place to read the clue, ultimately leading to the discovery.

 

 

Other thoughts: 1) agree that if the only two choices for babysitters were Dan and Rodney, I'd choose Rodney right away; 2) Dan is looking more and more like the kind of guy neighbours talk about saying "We would never have guessed - he seemed like such a nice man/grandpa figure/garden gnome"; 3) Dan in the water with Shirin was the most disgusting thing I have seen on Survivor so far. It was beyond uncomfortable. Please, never bring that guy on my TV ever again, TPTB. Hell, even Russell would be my first pick for a date if the choice was between these two. Or Rocky, whatever his real name was. Or Vince, or Rodney for that matter or whoever. This guy really had all the hair at the back of my neck standing up in that scene. The disconnect between the "friendly" tone of voice and the words really spooked me.  

 

Either Shirin is one cool customer, or her social awkwardness extends to not being able to read tone. 

 

Lol to your comments about Dan (especially comparing him to a garden gnome), but that was 100% my impression of him.  He must lead a very sheltered, old school life.  I really hope Probst doesn't go easy on him at the reunion, and since there doesn't seem to be many, if any, Dan fans out there, I hope that backs him into a corner to call him out.

 

That's really sad about Dan, because I thought he was going to be different.  At the beginning of the first episode, Jeff asked him something about his brothers back at work, and he responded my brothers and sisters.  I'm massively paraphrasing here, but it sure didn't sound like he would turn out to be such a pig.

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That's really sad about Dan, because I thought he was going to be different.  At the beginning of the first episode, Jeff asked him something about his brothers back at work, and he responded my brothers and sisters.  I'm massively paraphrasing here, but it sure didn't sound like he would turn out to be such a pig.

 

I held onto my irrational Dan like for so long because of that quote. It's hard to reconcile that Dan with the Dan we have now.

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It is such a pet peeve of mine. I just find it to be a very ignorant thing to say and, as I mentioned before, it is pretty offensive because "looking Jewish" is not considered flattering

 

Huh.  MMV clearly, because the first image that comes to my mind when I hear "Jewish looking" is Sarah Silverman, who is totally hot.

 

If Joe had the HII, after winning immunity, perhaps he’d give it to his ally that was in the most trouble.  Since Jenn received the votes last tribal, that’d be her, making Hali the “safer” target.

 

This can turn into a crazymaking quandary, though, like the poison cup in Princess Bride.  "They think that we think that they think that we think..." etc.  :)

Edited by SlackerInc

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I think Joe told Tyler about the HII clue because he was hoping that (1) it would sway Tyler to ally with him and (2) Tyler would keep it a secret.  Tyler obviously saw it and, if Joe didn't say anything to him, then Tyler would most likely not want to join Joe and the NCs, and would go back to camp and tell the majority alliance that Tyler has a clue and the next vote has to be a split vote, etc...As it turned out, Joe's sharing the clue didn't change anything - Tyler is still on the other side and still told everyone.  It ended up making it worse, because Mike was able to find the HII. Joe took a chance and it backfired. 

 

If I were in Joe's situation, I would have told Tyler too - it would be my only hope of getting Tyler on my side and keeping th clue a secret.  But I would have had a discussion with Tyler about forming an alliance. I am not sure Joe did.   

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I also have problems with the way the show is being edited. They should show more of how the contestent are doing to outwit and outplay, instead of editing the important stuff that you have to find out through interviews, the finale, just to keep the suspense.

 

How they actually come to their decisions before tribal is more important than the vote itself, for me as a viewer.

 

 

ITA.  I am not sure where sub alliances are because we don't see enough.  At this point Joe must have reached out to others unless he is really as bad a player as we see.  And that very well could be.  

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I also don't get what he means by "it's very Shakespearean in how it plays out".  I'm wondering if he actually knows what that means, or if he just means it's very dramatic.  Or tragic.  People sacrifice themselves in the game?

Maybe he means that Rodney makes it to FTC and during his speech he suddenly starts quoting Shakespeare and Nietzsche.  Now THAT would be an awesome twist!

 

I disliked Dan before but that turned to downright hate during this episode.  And I don't buy that his attitude is all a facade to get invited back.  He's just not that clever and definitely not that good an actor.  He's mean and hateful and I would really love to see Shirin win so it would wipe that smug, shit eating grin off his face.

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Maybe he means that Rodney makes it to FTC and during his speech he suddenly starts quoting Shakespeare and Nietzsche.  Now THAT would be an awesome twist!

People keep joking about that... but if Rodney actually revealed his persona as a total act during FTC, and he was actually something like an Oxford-schooled professor of comparative religion teaching at Harvard Seminary, he would literally become my favorite Survivor ever.  I would probably give him a spontaneous standing ovation, right in my living room.

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That's what I kept hoping for with Special Agent Philip Sheppard, and we all know how THAT turned out.  I'm afraid Rodney is probably just the way he seems, except a little more so.

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If Rodney gets to FTC because his "flip at final seven" plan works, well, as much as it surprises me to say this, I might just vote for him.  Now, what makes this fun is that while I think he has good ideas, I'm not sure he can execute them based on his prior plans.  And thus, we watch.....

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Both Joaquin and Hali have said that Rodney is being underestimated in his game play, and if anything, was very much playing a larger than life character out there.  When Joaquin said it, I just passed it off as him defending his bro.  But Hali, I was surprised by her statements and it made me stop and think.  She didn't live with him as long as Lindsey, who had horrible things to say about him in her post boot interviews.  And by the time the merge happened, Rodney seems to have realized laying low might not be a bad idea so I can see where he might not have as come off as obnoxious to Hali.  I will give credit where it is due.  Rodney, unlike almost everyone out there that's left, seems to be playing the game and trying to formulate an end game plan and options.  I don't buy for 2 seconds that he was only buddying up to Joaquin to get intel on the WC crew that was still left, but it was a good cover story.  And if Rodney had any reason to turn on Joaquin, he likely would have known more about the dynamics with what's left of that tribe.  He was right about getting rid of Joe, but that vote seemed to be more about control than logic (I highly doubt Joaquin would be 3-0 in the challenges at this point).  Luckily for Mike, Tyler didn't turn on him for betraying his friend.  

 

And now Rodney seems content to let Mike believe he's in control and quietly has his own final 4 set aside (a bunch of weaklings, imo, though I do wonder how loyal Carolyn/Tyler are to him), waiting until there's 7 and no chance of anyone flipping before taking Mike out.  I don't believe it will work, and I have a feeling Mike's idol is going to screw up Rodney's plans.  But considering what little we've seen of others game play, and how oblivious the cast offs sound in their post boot interviews as to what was going on out there, I do have to acknowledge Rodney may not be such a dumb sack of bricks after all.  However, I'd be happy for the rest of the season to see a confused look on his face at the end of each tribal.  It's how every episode should end.  If Joe/Jenn/Shirin are the next 3 voted off, Rodney would actually move up by default to the person I'd be rooting for to win.  That's where this season has taken me-I want the guy whose jury speech will need subtitles and be full of sport references to take home the million bucks.  I don't think he will, however.  The very fact that they are choosing to show us his game play and ignoring what everyone else has going on out there makes me think they are setting him up for a fall.

Edited by LadyChatts
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