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Tara Ariano

S30.E08: Keep It Real

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Something occurred to me.

Joe apologized to Jenn after the vote.

Joe was never shown searching for the Idol.

Several people have commented that Mike may have actually found the old BC idol (did someone mention an extra video that says that).

Mike made a big speech about Joe having the II, to which Joe was coy.

What if Joe did find the HII after all?!? Maybe Mike thinks he found the one Joe was searching for but didn't, and Joe was actually apologizing... for not giving Jenn his idol, because he knows he still needs it the first time he loses.

I don't think there's any way that TPTB wouldn't show someone finding an Idol.  Especially if it was Golden Boy Joe.  I only recently started watching Survivor again, I think I skipped about 8 seasons sometime between when JT won and the first Blood vs. Water.  But I don't ever recall someone playing an Idol and not having seen when they found it.  They want the drama of the Idol hunt, and love capturing the reactions.

 

 

 

I don't fault Hali for thinking they had the numbers: but for turncoat Will, they did, since 4NC + Shirin+ Sierra gives them 6. Her Ponderosa arrival video makes clearly that even when she left she thought Will was on their side.

She must be a dim bulb then.  How could they possibly think Will was still with them?  They never talk to him anymore.  Also, I know Jeff manipulates the order in which the votes are read, and stops reading when there is enough for an elimination.  But at the prior tribal with the Kelly elimination, I thought the first vote read was Hali.  Then weren't there 7 votes for Jenn?  Followed by 3 votes for Kelly.  Leaving one vote unaccounted for.  I guess she assumes that vote was Will's and it was for Kelly.  This just shows what a bad player Hali was if she thought Will was with them.  It's been three days since the Kelly boot and she never once talked to Will about the vote?  Or how about Shirin?  Shirin never talked to her about the Kelly vote?  Meanwhile, Shirin is sitting there with her and Jenn talking about the girl alliance.  Did it not occur to Hali that Shirin was with them?  Obviously not, if she assumed that Shirin voted her out.

Edited by blackwing
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I think we've seen Tyler get caught out for the first time in the game. After being apparently the only one to notice that Joe found the clue to the hidden immunity idol, he (wisely) did not call Joe out, but then had his meeting with Joe about the clue cut short by Mike and told Mike everything in what looked like a panic to me. I'm not sure he would have played it that way if he had had time to think it all through.

 

For instance, it's not clear to me that Mike definitely saw them reading a hidden immunity idol clue. Could Tyler have played it off as Joe just trying to feel him out for an alliance? Even if Mike saw them unrolling the paper and reading the clue (or figured it out based on where the cameramen must have been), there was no reason for Tyler to tell him what it said. Joe had the piece of paper, so Tyler could have told Mike anything about what it said and sent him on a wild goose chase. But you need time to think all of that through and coming up with a convincing lie on the spot isn't easy.

 

What if Joe did find the HII after all?!? Maybe Mike thinks he found the one Joe was searching for but didn't, and Joe was actually apologizing... for not giving Jenn his idol, because he knows he still needs it the first time he loses.

While I agree that the editors often cut scenes and interviews that are relevant to understanding the game, I have never known them to fail to show someone finding the idol. I don't believe for a minute that Joe has an idol and I'm willing to bet there aren't any left to be found.

 

Speaking of editors leaving stuff out, the extra videos people have posted have shown us that the No Collars don't really seem to have a good grasp of what's going on. Hali apparently thinks Shirin flipped on their alliance twice and that Will's still with them. Jenn was mad that Joe didn't pick her and the rest of their alliance for the reward and thinks Joe hasn't been communicating with his allies enough. Joe apparently didn't make any sort of pitch at the reward challenge. No wonder Carolyn and Tyler are sticking with the Blue Collar alliance. The No Collars aren't offering them anything. Rodney's plan to take over the game at F7 might not come true, but at least it's a plan and if it works, it gets Tyler and Carolyn all the way to F4. The No Collars one offer appeared to take place at the merge and was basically, "Let's vote out the Blue Collars because we like you better!" Yes, Jenn, but what happens once the Blue Collars are gone and the White Collars are on the wrong side of a 4-3 split?

 

Finally, I'll paraphrase here what I said in Joe's thread: Is he talking to anyone about the game? If he is, then when? And to whom? I find it very hard to believe that he's out there not speaking to anyone but all the evidence from the extra videos and the like seems to indicate that he isn't.

 

ETA: As for why Joe stopped looking, I think what happened was that while he knew he didn't have the idol, he believed that Mike (and therefore everyone else) thought he did. So he decided not to go off alone to look for it, because it would alert everyone to the fact that he didn't have it, which might cause other people to watch him and look for the idol themselves. Plus, there's a chance that if people believe he has it, then if he ever fails to win an individual immunity challenge, they might not target him directly, out of fear of idol bounce-back. It's not going to work, because Mike was bluffing and now he has the idol, but from Joe's point of view, I can see how it might make sense to stop looking—or at least, not for long periods of time. I imagine that he might spend a couple of minutes trying to find it while he's out looking for firewood or something on his own, but we probably won't get to see that.

Edited by Hera
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This is where I really question what's going on with the edits. Hali's interviews have made it clear that she, Jenn, and Joe were playing pretty badly (although Hali thought she had a friendship with Mike that would cause him to redirect the BC vote towards Jenn). It would be nice if we'd seen some of that--like the conversation they apparently had in which they tried to figure out who flipped--especially if they do end up getting Pagonged. A well-deserved Pagonging can at least feel satisfying.

 

But instead, the edit makes it seem like NC is playing hard but just have bad luck and the numbers against them. 

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Speaking of editors leaving stuff out, the extra videos people have posted have shown us that the No Collars don't really seem to have a good grasp of what's going on. Hali apparently thinks Shirin flipped on their alliance twice and that Will's still with them. Jenn was mad that Joe didn't pick her and the rest of their alliance for the reward and thinks Joe hasn't been communicating with his allies enough. Joe apparently didn't make any sort of pitch at the reward challenge.

 

 

And what's especially odd about this is that they're all fans of the show - not just some recruits. Hali in her Ponderosa video talks about watching Tina win in S2 when she was just 9 and being inspired because she's from Knoxville, like Tina. Jenn had all this giddy excitement the first time they went to tribal council because she was just geeking out over the fact that she was actually playing Survivor. And it's also how she found the hidden immunity idol without a clue, just by going off where they've typically hidden it in seasons past. Joe talked about being a fan, learning how to make fire off of YouTube, practicing puzzles (which definitely came in handy this past immunity challenge), etc. 

 

So they are fans of the game and so it's baffling that they're making these types of mistakes. I mean how could Jenn not realize exactly why Joe chose the people he did for Reward.  Of course, if they really think Will is still with them, which again makes no sense, I guess in her mind she might have thought he should have taken Tyler and Carolyn for strategy but have Will and either her or Hali versus Shrin who everyone seems to think is so annoying. Then Joe taking these people but doing nothing to try to sway them to his side during the reward, whether or not it works. And then he does nothing to convince them but then decides to show his immunity idol clue to Tyler. It's just baffling really.

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Hali surprised me in her day after vid, where she mentioned her strategy going in was entirely different than what she realized the game was.  I think overall as a season, no one has really been playing a great game.  The former blues are lucky they still had their numbers that gave them an advantage, and that they could bring over people who didn't want to play with the youngin's.  I don't know if anyone has a good game out there as much as it's all about luck.  I hate to say that Rodney may actually be the smartest one out there looking at the end game.  I really don't want to even think about him making it to the end, although I can't believe he will win.

 

I have to say, this cast does seem close outside the game (certain groups do), but in the game I'm wondering if they were all really getting along that well.  They just seem to be phoning it in at this point.

Edited by LadyChatts
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She must be a dim bulb then.  How could they possibly think Will was still with them?  They never talk to him anymore.  Also, I know Jeff manipulates the order in which the votes are read, and stops reading when there is enough for an elimination.  But at the prior tribal with the Kelly elimination, I thought the first vote read was Hali.  Then weren't there 7 votes for Jenn?  Followed by 3 votes for Kelly.  Leaving one vote unaccounted for.  I guess she assumes that vote was Will's and it was for Kelly.  This just shows what a bad player Hali was if she thought Will was with them.  It's been three days since the Kelly boot and she never once talked to Will about the vote?  Or how about Shirin?  Shirin never talked to her about the Kelly vote?  Meanwhile, Shirin is sitting there with her and Jenn talking about the girl alliance.  Did it not occur to Hali that Shirin was with them?  Obviously not, if she assumed that Shirin voted her out.

 

Because what is obvious from watching an edited version of what went out there is not always as obvious to the people out there who don't have access to confessionals, etc.  And yes they did talk to Will after the Kelly vote. We don't get to every conversation that happens out there. Now I am certainly not saying Will this master liar and he had him all fooled and that it was understandable they thought he was still with them. They obviously read the situation wrong, I am just not going to say they are all a bunch of dummies for not knowing it because it was so obvious from watching it from the comfort of my living room couch.

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Loved Shirin's response to Dan at tribal about Tony being a flipper. Would have loved to hear her list every season where the winner flipped and still won.

 

Oh Dan what a truly horrendous twat he is. His speech to Shirin was just so deluded. Pity Shirin didn't turn around and say listen you dickwad your superior numbers mean shit because you better hope its a final 2 the only chance you have of winning is against Rodney and even thats doubtful, the look on his face would have been priceless!

 

Heres hope Joe, Jen or Shirin can miraculously turn the tide on this game because at the moment its not looking good.

 

 

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ETA: in regards to Joe sharing the clue, he didn't really have a choice.  He tried swallowing it, but Tyler saw it.  So he figured he had to share it with him, probably not realizing he would double cross him to Mike. 

 

I don't understand that leap from "Tyler saw me" to "I have to share it with him".  If it's someone in your alliance, sure.  But outside it?  No, that doesn't compute for me.

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It seemed to me that she truly thought her alliance was on top.

 

Based on her Ponderosa vid, she really did think she was going to be on the winning end of that vote. Joe did as well. He mentioned being in the majority in an extra vid. Sierra and Will were apparently extremely good at getting the NCs+Shirin to believe they were with them. Or NCs+Shirin are just very dumb. It could go either way really.

 

This is where I really question what's going on with the edits. Hali's interviews have made it clear that she, Jenn, and Joe were playing pretty badly (although Hali thought she had a friendship with Mike that would cause him to redirect the BC vote towards Jenn). It would be nice if we'd seen some of that--like the conversation they apparently had in which they tried to figure out who flipped--especially if they do end up getting Pagonged. A well-deserved Pagonging can at least feel satisfying.

 

But instead, the edit makes it seem like NC is playing hard but just have bad luck and the numbers against them. 

 

The edit is just nonsensical at this point. Like you said, it's pretty clear now that Joe/Jenn/Hali/Shirin were pretty dumb and not playing well and they are pretty obviously going to continue to be on the losing end of the game, so why not edit them more truly? Why edit them to be fun, smart underdogs that people will root for and edit the people who are actually going to make it far/win into sexist, stupid assholes and/or invisible? It's a very strange way to go.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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This episode felt like such a slap in the face. It was almost like the editors were laughing at Hali and the other women for even daring to think they could best the misogynistic assholes. I thought for sure that it was going to be an episode that showed the downfall of Dan or Rodney, without any attempt to hide who was going home. I was shocked (and so disappointed) that it was Hali. If the women don't start dominating soon or if a woman doesn't end up winning this season then the editors will have played a sick prank on all of us. Because that's the only way this edit makes sense and the season can be redeemed.

 

Also, WTF is with Jeff saying this is the best season ever? I know he's a sexist asshole, but is he that out of touch with viewers that he would think the audience would like this too? Or is he going to frame it as this season was so "controversial" and "interesting", rather than endorsing the misogyny?

 

Out of everyone I've ever seen on the show (including the Hantzes, Coach and Rodney), Dan gives me the creepiest chills ever. It would not surprise me to learn that he has female bodies stuffed in his closet at home.

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I really hated that ending. But I don't think the NC have been active enough in trying to get people over to their side. They lucked into having Carolyn and Kelly on their side after the swap and it seemed like the conversation with Sierra came about almost by accident as well.

 

In comparison to the BC assholes Joe seems sweet, but sweet isn't really enough for me. I don't care for players that are great at challenges and don't really bring much else to the table. This show isn't an athletic competition. He doesn't seem to be very strong strategically or socially (even though he's well-liked he's been bad at getting people to vote with him). So I don't get why he's getting an amazing edit or the comparisons to Malcolm. Yes, they both have long hair, but so what? Malcolm was super smart and game savvy. Joe isn't.

 

Oh and also everyone needs to stop referring to the NC as Joe's group. Clearly Jenn has been running that alliance from the beginning, but none of the BC will see that or admit it because obviously a man is always in charge of everything. Never a woman. I don't get why all the men are still considered such big threats over the women either. The men this season, for the most part, are gross, unlikable idiots who can't win in front of a jury (Rodney, Dan). The challenges post-merge have been balance related or puzzles. I don't want the women to be threats and get voted out, but it goes back to this gross notion that no one considers the women threats because all the men think they're so clever, amazing and strong, while the women are weak and useless. F that. 

 

Tyler is such a bystander. He's the type of person that would let someone get bullied in front of him and just turn a blind-eye. 

 

I agree with everyone who said that there's racism/xenophobia in the inability of these players to get Shirin's name right. It's not a difficult name to pronounce, but since it's isn't a familiar (read: white) person's name to them they're just like "Meh. I don't need to learn it". F that too.

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Shirin's not white? I think she looks Jewish. I know a few people named Shiri and they are all Jewish. Or maybe Shirin is Middle eastern? I don't see how her name is any less odd than "Hali" or "Sierra".

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If this season is the best ever in Jeff's mind because it ends with the misogynistic assholes steamrolling their way over the women into a win, while spouting their bullshit and having no one check them on it then I will riot!!!!


Shirin's not white? I think she looks Jewish. I know a few people named Shiri and they are all Jewish. Or maybe Shirin is Middle eastern? I don't see how her name is any less odd than "Hali" or "Sierra".

I know this is a common (negative) stereotype that people say all the time, but you can't really look Jewish. People don't realize, but there are black Jews, Caucasian blonde-haired/blue-eyed Jews, Chinese Jews, etc. So there are Jews who don't look "Jewish" at all and non-Jews that look very "Jewish". And it's kind of offensive when people talk about "so and so looks Jewish" because that was a stereotype used during WWII that basically said that Jews were unattractive and evil-looking.

Edited by wudpixie
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I know this is a common (negative) stereotype that people say all the time, but you can't really look Jewish. People don't realize, but there are black Jews, Caucasian blonde-haired/blue-eyed Jews, Chinese Jews, etc. So there are Jews who don't look "Jewish" at all and non-Jews that look very "Jewish". And it's kind of offensive when people talk about "so and so looks Jewish" because that was a stereotype used during WWII that basically said that Jews were unattractive and evil-looking.

I wish I could give you 1,000,000,000 likes, saying someone does or does not look Jewish puts my teeth on edge. You never hear anyone say so & so doesn't look Baptist, or Methodist, or Hindu, so unless they happen to be wearing a Yarmlke & long curly sideburns, how can you look like a religion?

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I wish I could give you 1,000,000,000 likes, saying someone does or does not look Jewish puts my teeth on edge. You never hear anyone say so & so doesn't look Baptist, or Methodist, or Hindu, so unless they happen to be wearing a Yarmlke & long curly sideburns, how can you look like a religion?

True, one can not look like a religion. There are ethnic divisions within religions that are primarily a result of geography and how the religion spread to different regions.

People who say such things as, "she looks Jewish" rarely know they are being offensive.

Have pity on their ignorance and be "calm, cool, and collective" like Rodney.

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Shirin's not white? I think she looks Jewish. I know a few people named Shiri and they are all Jewish. Or maybe Shirin is Middle eastern? I don't see how her name is any less odd than "Hali" or "Sierra".

 

Shirin is Persian.  

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The edit is just nonsensical at this point. Like you said, it's pretty clear now that Joe/Jenn/Hali/Shirin were pretty dumb and not playing well and they are pretty obviously going to continue to be on the losing end of the game, so why not edit them more truly? Why edit them to be fun, smart underdogs that people will root for and edit the people who are actually going to make it far/win into sexist, stupid assholes and/or invisible? It's a very strange way to go.

I can only hope that somehow the assholes implode and the "underdogs" get to the end (or at least some of them). I'm not sure I want to watch sexist, possibly racist assholes roll unchecked to the end.

 

Also, WTF is with Jeff saying this is the best season ever? I know he's a sexist asshole, but is he that out of touch with viewers that he would think the audience would like this too? Or is he going to frame it as this season was so "controversial" and "interesting", rather than endorsing the misogyny?

I've disagreed with Jeff on what constitutes entertaining for quite some time now, so yeah - I think he is that out of touch. Him hyping it as the greatest thing ever makes me want to bail out now, but I'll watch as long as Joe and Shirin and Jenn are still in. So - three more weeks? And where is this great twist Peachy has promised? Get with it while I'm still watching, Jeff!

 

Oh and also everyone needs to stop referring to the NC as Joe's group. Clearly Jenn has been running that alliance from the beginning, but none of the BC will see that or admit it because obviously a man is always in charge of everything. Never a woman. I don't get why all the men are still considered such big threats over the women either. The men this season, for the most part, are gross, unlikable idiots who can't win in front of a jury (Rodney, Dan). The challenges post-merge have been balance related or puzzles. I don't want the women to be threats and get voted out, but it goes back to this gross notion that no one considers the women threats because all the men think they're so clever, amazing and strong, while the women are weak and useless. F that. 

 

I agree with everyone who said that there's racism/xenophobia in the inability of these players to get Shirin's name right. It's not a difficult name to pronounce, but since it's isn't a familiar (read: white) person's name to them they're just like "Meh. I don't need to learn it". F that too.

*claps* Nailed it. I see the Jenn/Joe dynamic as a weaker version of Yul/Ozzy. Joe is athletic and likeable and good-looking, but he's not the brains of the duo. Weaker because Jenn is nowhere close to as smart as Yul, and because Joe isn't completely annihilating the challenges like Ozzy did. The dynamic is similar, though.

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I've disagreed with Jeff on what constitutes entertaining for quite some time now, so yeah - I think he is that out of touch. Him hyping it as the greatest thing ever makes me want to bail out now

 

I'm right there with you riley702.  I just have to believe that Probst isn't stupid enough (or whatever) to hype a season where the winner was:  (a) Rodney, who he even called out as pissing off women everywhere; or (b) Dan, no further explanation needed other than the slap nonsense. The "best" season is the season where women are insulted left and right, and one of the assholes wins?

 

And, if he is...and if this is what the show is promoting.....I could say I'd quit watching, but well, we know how that goes, but I will feel dirty watching going forward.

Edited by pennben
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First episode this season when I can quickly list what I enjoyed while watching:

 

1) frogs!!!!

 

2) responses by Shirin and Hali to Dan's statement that "switchers never win"

 

3) Dan repeateldy failing to see that his puzzle "solve" was nonsensical and how it helped others figure out what the end result should be.

 

The rest was not fun to watch. For the first time, I understand what some have been saying for a while, that Mike is getting the winner edit (did any of those who thoiuht so base their feeling on spoilers? I am spoiler free and hope to remain so, but I know in a past season many posters - on another forum - were seeing winner edit where I didn't see it and it turned out to be 1) false and 2) based on spoilers.

 

If Mike makes it DESPITE his BC getting decimated, I would be fine with his win. If he makes it WITH his BC alliance, I will say kudos to him as a player but, as a viewer, I will not be happy.

 

I cannot believe that Joe was so spot on in chosing the right people to take/ potential turncoaters (except for Shirin) and then failed to make a move. Is editing hiding essential discussions from us? Did the reveal of the clue take place in a broader scheme to get Tyler's trust or was it as senseless as we were shown?

 

Only things that give me hope: 1) on this thread, people make good sense for why the idol found was the one left over from BC days; 2) so I can still hope Joe will find the merged tribe one, or share clue with Jenn (please, don't let him share clue with Will...); 3) Dan's et Rodney's editing (Dan's in particular) is so bad that I think we're meant to expect some great comeuppance (Dan's especially should be very sweet, and with Sierra on board if they get the numbers I see that happening earlier rather than later.)

 

Other thoughts: 1) agree that if the only two choices for babysitters were Dan and Rodney, I'd choose Rodney right away; 2) Dan is looking more and more like the kind of guy neighbours talk about saying "We would never have guessed - he seemed like such a nice man/grandpa figure/garden gnome"; 3) Dan in the water with Shirin was the most disgusting thing I have seen on Survivor so far. It was beyond uncomfortable. Please, never bring that guy on my TV ever again, TPTB. Hell, even Russell would be my first pick for a date if the choice was between these two. Or Rocky, whatever his real name was. Or Vince, or Rodney for that matter or whoever. This guy really had all the hair at the back of my neck standing up in that scene. The disconnect between the "friendly" tone of voice and the words really spooked me.  

I really hated that ending. But I don't think the NC have been active enough in trying to get people over to their side. They lucked into having Carolyn and Kelly on their side after the swap and it seemed like the conversation with Sierra came about almost by accident as well.

 

In comparison to the BC assholes Joe seems sweet, but sweet isn't really enough for me. I don't care for players that are great at challenges and don't really bring much else to the table. This show isn't an athletic competition. He doesn't seem to be very strong strategically or socially (even though he's well-liked he's been bad at getting people to vote with him). So I don't get why he's getting an amazing edit or the comparisons to Malcolm. Yes, they both have long hair, but so what? Malcolm was super smart and game savvy. Joe isn't.

 

Oh and also everyone needs to stop referring to the NC as Joe's group. Clearly Jenn has been running that alliance from the beginning, but none of the BC will see that or admit it because obviously a man is always in charge of everything. Never a woman. I don't get why all the men are still considered such big threats over the women either. The men this season, for the most part, are gross, unlikable idiots who can't win in front of a jury (Rodney, Dan). The challenges post-merge have been balance related or puzzles. I don't want the women to be threats and get voted out, but it goes back to this gross notion that no one considers the women threats because all the men think they're so clever, amazing and strong, while the women are weak and useless. F that. 

 

Tyler is such a bystander. He's the type of person that would let someone get bullied in front of him and just turn a blind-eye. 

 

I agree with everyone who said that there's racism/xenophobia in the inability of these players to get Shirin's name right. It's not a difficult name to pronounce, but since it's isn't a familiar (read: white) person's name to them they're just like "Meh. I don't need to learn it". F that too.

Agree with most of your post, except Tyler as a bystander. Despite his giving all the clues to Mike, I still think he's one of those playing the game for the long term. Whether his strategy will work for him remains to be seen (we haven't seen much of him, so that may mean he doesn't go as far as he's going for; maybe his "buddy" Rodney eats it first, maybe Carolyn gets blindsided with the idol in her pocket, maybe Tyler himself is blindsided). So far, it hasn't worked against him : he doesn't seem to be seen as dangerous by blue, he ingratiated himself with Mike, he's into Rodney's mind, he gets to be courted/taken on a reward challenge and he's the only one who knows of Carolyn's secret weapon. I'm keeping my eye on him but the edit is not making me very hopeful that I'm right to.  

 

Shirin's not white? I think she looks Jewish. I know a few people named Shiri and they are all Jewish. Or maybe Shirin is Middle eastern? I don't see how her name is any less odd than "Hali" or "Sierra".

Shirin is a Persian name. If you try her last name on Facebook or anything similar, you'll find plenty of people in Iran. I guessed that from the start, as I once had a classmate named Shirin who was not from Iran but explained that her name was (OT: her parents must have loved Arabian Nights because her sister was named Sheherazade - that was way back in the 70s, when parents who had come to age in the 60s were quite adventurous with names - I also know an Iskander (Alexander in Arabic) who doesn't have a drop of Arabic blood, born in the late 60s, as well as many Leilas who were baptized in homage to the song, despite it being an Arabic name and they being from very "white" families (aren't Jewish and Middle Eastern people "white" anyway? as well as many "Hispanic" people"? I confess to being lost with American classification of "race", a very alien concept to European self!).   

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Nutmeg, my impression of Mike as the winner has nothing to do with spoilers.  I've just had this inkling since the beginning, but for awhile it was looking like I was wrong.  Hopefully I still am, yet I feel like that is the direction we are starting to go in more so.  I thought that maybe we were going to get an Aitu 4 underdog story, or that the ladies would align and we'd get the Black Widow Brigade 2.0  Unfortunately, this isn't the season for those types of dreams to come true.  

 

Lol to your comments about Dan (especially comparing him to a garden gnome), but that was 100% my impression of him.  He must lead a very sheltered, old school life.  I really hope Probst doesn't go easy on him at the reunion, and since there doesn't seem to be many, if any, Dan fans out there, I hope that backs him into a corner to call him out.

 

Joe may just realize there isn't anything left he can do but win immunities, so why not enjoy the experience while he's out there.

Edited by LadyChatts
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Thanks for your answer LadyChatts. I must say that Mike's edit - complete with tears, standing high in a tree and finding an idol - is starting to worry me. As is the recollection of Lindsay's "The winner will be a Blue Collar" statement. I'm really hoping the editors are toying with us and making us all resigned to an outcome we didn't wish for but have become to see as inevitable, all the better to positively surprise us, but I'm not holding my breath at this point. 

 

[Hopeful me still says: if they've managed to control spoilers, maybe they've also manage to fool long-time watchers with misleading editing? Then again hopeful me often gets disappointed...] 

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Given that they emphasized BC saying that one of them was going to win several times throughout the season, and never the other tribes, was my first indicator that that was probably how it was going to go.  As the season went on, I was hoping I was wrong.  I figured the only way Mike was going to win was to have his alliance/tribe picked off, be the last man standing from that group, and then watch the others pick each other off.  He'd slide into the final 3 and win by default.  Well, that's sort of what's happening, just not entirely how I envisioned it.  I believe there's a lot of misleading editing going on regarding the former BC dynamic, and the relationships in general out there.  There isn't anything clear about who is doing what and why.

 

I try to think back to last season, when Natalie came out of nowhere during the merge and ended up winning.  Which is why I also believe that's an indicator Tyler or Sierra could win.  Sierra might have a tougher time than she thinks, if she is just following the lead of the men and not making any moves on her own.  I fully believe Carolyn gets blindsided with the idol in her pocket.  But I'm grasping at anything right now that would lean towards their not being a BC victory, or worse, an all blue final 3.  However, get Mike in the finals, and Dan, Rodney, and Sierra in the jury, and I guarantee that's an automatic 3 votes for him.  Regardless of how Rodney might feel about Mike, it's almost the mentality that a win for one is a win for all.  Thanks again producers for the emphasis on this theme.  And I thought B/B/B would be the most annoying theme to ever come out of this show.  

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Joe is awfully passive, content to win immunities for himself but doesn't seem to participate in wooing an alliance. I don't understand his game plan. Has he even had a confessional since the first couple of episodes?

 

 

Did the editors just not show it or did Joe not even bring up a proposal or invitation with the white collars and Will at the reward?  I'm sure they would have shown it if it had happened. So then, I'm rather disappointed with Joe. I assumed when he purposely picked the white collars, he had some kind of speech ready to go.  I guess not. I expected to hear him first off address Will, with a "We don't hold it against you that you switched last time..blah blah blah", and then explained to the white collars the very real situation of they themselves being pagonged by the Blue collar later on. But if they joined up, they would be more evenly split. 3 no collar, 3 white collar, and Will... who Joe could point out had already flipped away from no collar so was in effect neutral if not now more loyal to white collar.

 

  Also if he and his two companions had been more aware I thought they'd have picked up on Sierra's disgruntlement with her own tribe and Joe could have taken her as his final pick instead of Shirin. If not Sierra then someone like Hali to help sell the plan......oh wait.

 

It just seems like common sense for the two smaller tribes to band together to gain the majority and take out the dominant tribe. Surprising Carolyn doesn't understand that either.

 

I just hate seeing the assholes getting rewarded. I think Mike is just as misogynist as the other two, he just hides it better, and he's smarter. I can totally see this play out in torturous slow agony with only the three assholes left with Mike deciding which of the two Rodney or Dan is the biggest stupidest goat he can use.

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For me, this reward is full on cognitive dissonance. Why would Joe pick people who have a reason to switch and then not pitch anything to them? Did he do it and it was edited out? did he do it with one (or a few) of them, individually, and it was edited out? [it would at least explain why he showed the clue to Tyler] Did he not pitch anything to anyone? [but then, why pick this bunch? to leave his eyes and ears at camp? to wait and see if one of them would approach him? because he's fishing for a new alliance?]  

 

I wished we had had at least a confessional and for once I wouldn't have minded leading questions from interviewers: What were you mostly thinking at reward - scenery, food, idol clue, potential alliances? Why did you choose who you did to accompany you on the reward? Who do you think you could get in an alliance with and why? What do you think of Will? [And, for my endless enjoyment:] What do you think of Rodney? Could you ally with Rodney? Would you share the clue with Rodney? Would you let Rodney babysit your kids? If Rodney was dating your sister, how would you feel? 

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Dan's et Rodney's editing... 

Medical background? Or law (do lawyers use those little Latin words in everyday writing, too?).

Edited by riley702

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Several posters keep repeating that Jeff calls this season the best ever.  Can someone -- anyone -- show me where he said that?  I know he said this cast may be the best cast ever.  Has he also said this season is the best ever? 

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Dan's et Rodney's editing..

 

.

Medical background? Or law (do lawyers use those little Latin words in everyday writing, too?).

 

Riley, neither, lol! (though 6 years of Latin way back....) Am translating something to French and coming here to read and/or post whenever my interest is starting to wane and I need a beak.

 

Thanks for teaching me that "et" is used in medical fiels (as in "et all" etc.?). It's amazing what we can learn on this site or TWOP before :-) I've read from history buffs (with in particular excellent knowledge of the prohibition era), travel experts, lawyers, advertising people, people who grew up in the sixties, and other very insighful people. All the more reason to drop by often so as to enhance my general knowledge!

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Just to add to the "fun". In Hali's interview with Dalton Ross she mentions that Shirin has been a victim of domestic violence. I hope to god that was not common knowledge when they were playing the game but she was quite shaken when she saw that Dan interview.

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Some predictions. If Joe, Jenn and Shirin are voted out next weeks as the plan already goes, 7 people will remain in the game. If Carolyn, Tyler, Rodney and Will stick to their plan, it will be easy to vote out the three Mike, Sierra and Dan and become the final four. If this happens, I very well can see Carolyn and Tyler together with stupid Rodney in the final tribal council, with Tyler winning cause he'll claim everything he did was part of a bigger plan that led his where he is now. What a good ending for the underdogs of white collar tribe and what a boring game for us audience, to have been able to predict the outcome like 7 episodes before the final one.

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I used to have people tell me I "looked Jewish,"  all the time and all those people  telling me that were Jewish.  They said it had something to do with my eyes, which were blue, but deep-set.  I think they also wanted to add that my nose was a bit prominent but were too nice.  These same friends told me "Jewish," described both a religion and a race and some called it an ethno-religious  group with their identity partly ancestral heritage and partly religious.  Descent from a certain region and/or a smallish group of ancestors might result in a distinct "look," in a major portion of the group even if there were many exceptions. I tend to think my husbands family "looks German," with their round faces and blonde hair even though I know there are plenty of thin faced brunettes in Germany.

 

Forgetting Shirin's name doesn't seem racial to me.  My blonde blue eyed son has an unusual Norwegian name and people have all sort of trouble remembering and pronouncing his simple, phonetic name.  They're just lazy maroons.

 

 (aren't Jewish and Middle Eastern people "white" anyway? as well as many "Hispanic" people"? I confess to being lost with American classification of "race", a very alien concept to European self!).   

 

I'm American and it baffles me, too.  When I grew up there were only two check boxes on forms after race, white or black with black meaning, "you have obvious African ancestry."  Even then it was ridiculous to categorize people in such a vague, unscientific way.  I think we're being more and more race conscious, sometimes for the purpose of taking offence and sometimes to discriminate.  I really wish we would quit referring to people by race for any reason.

Edited by JudyObscure
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himela, probably. I could see Rodney winning though since he can easily claim that he put together the alliance that took out Mike and that was a game changer. And he would be right. While Tyler was not included in Rodney's initial pitch, it was Kelly, Will, Rodney, and Carolyn, Rodney's four person pitch to Carolyn and Will is probably what cemented them with the Blue Collars. Carolyn and Will saw that there was not much room with the No Collar and that there was a final four option with the Blue Collar. God forbid it happens, but Rodney is in a good position based on game play.

 

Rodney's mouth is what could cost him the money. He has pissed off people with his comments and his behavior but if it was Rodney, Will, Tyler or Rodney, Will Carolyn, or Rodney, Tyler, Carolyn I can see where Rodney could make the case that any of the other three owe their position in the game to him and that someone voting based on strategic play would vote for Rodney.

 

Tyler has not made any moves. He is playing the minority tribe position perfectly but he is not going to be able to argue that he was behind any major moves. The No Collars will know that Tyler was offered several opportunity to swap and he didn't. His play has been so passive so far that I can't see him winning.

 

Carolyn seems to have annoyed folks. Hali pretty much says that Carolyn wanted nothing to do with the No Collars and the women. It wasn't said in context of great strategic play but dismissive of how Carolyn is playing. So she can say she had a hidden immunity idol but that is about it.

 

I have no idea what case Will can make. We have seen so little of him.

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For the first time, I understand what some have been saying for a while, that Mike is getting the winner edit (did any of those who thoiuht so base their feeling on spoilers?

 

There are no real spoilers for this season, so the 'Mike's getting the winner edit' is not coming from that type of place.

 

Did the editors just not show it or did Joe not even bring up a proposal or invitation with the white collars and Will at the reward?  I'm sure they would have shown it if it had happened. So then, I'm rather disappointed with Joe.

 

There are two extra vids relating to this that you can watch to get some more info. One from Joe, where he talks about his choices, and one from Tyler, where he talks about how the reward went. The impression I got after watching both is that, sadly, Joe did nothing to entice Tyler/Carolyn while on the reward. In fact, none of them did anything strategy wise.

 

Several posters keep repeating that Jeff calls this season the best ever.  Can someone -- anyone -- show me where he said that?  I know he said this cast may be the best cast ever.  Has he also said this season is the best ever? 

 

I don't have a link and I'm not 100% sure it's there, but I think he mentioned how amazing this season was in the initial EW article.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Dan is looking more and more like the kind of guy neighbours talk about saying "We would never have guessed - he seemed like such a nice man/grandpa figure/garden gnome"; 3) Dan in the water with Shirin was the most disgusting thing I have seen on Survivor so far. It was beyond uncomfortable...The disconnect between the "friendly" tone of voice and the words really spooked me. 

 

 

Maybe I watch too much true-crime junk TV, but I can totally see Dan doing the jailhouse interview from Death Row and somehow thinking that he is coming across as such a great, smart guy.

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I think the reason that NC+Shirin were out of luck is not that they're on the wrong side of a 7-4 (now 7-4 split).

 

A 7-person majority alliance should have some potential flippers who can be convinced that they're at the bottom of the pecking-order.

 

The problem for NC+Shirin is that everyone in the BC+WC alliance thinks they're also part of a secret sub-alliance that will make it's move once NC+Shirin are voted out.  And, for those who are correct in that assumption, it's very smart gameplay.

 

From that perspective (which, in fairness to Joe, I'm not sure would've been that obvious out there in real-time), the best play would've been to throw the Reward Challenge and let a BC win it.

 

Challenges like that are designed to expose pecking orders.  Allowing Mike or Dan , or even Tyler, to be the one picking people to come on the reward might've exposed the rifts and given someone like Will or Sierra (or even Carolyn) incentive to flip.

 

As it is, I think the only chance the remaining NC+Shirin have is when it gets down to F9 or F8.  If anyone believes they're on the wrong side of an internal 4-3 split within BC+WC, they might pull a NC or Shirin in.

 

On an unrelated note, I'm a cat-person.  But if Dan were my mailman, I'd get a dog.  One with a really bad attitude.

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As it is, I think the only chance the remaining NC+Shirin have is when it gets down to F9 or F8.  If anyone believes they're on the wrong side of an internal 4-3 split within BC+WC, they might pull a NC or Shirin in.

 

I'm going to reply to this in the spec thread.

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Several posters keep repeating that Jeff calls this season the best ever.  Can someone -- anyone -- show me where he said that?  I know he said this cast may be the best cast ever.  Has he also said this season is the best ever? 

 

I don't have a link and I'm not 100% sure it's there, but I think he mentioned how amazing this season was in the initial EW article.

 

 

Ok here is a link but it's only about the twist: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/02/24/jeff-probst-names-his-favorite-survivor-winner-non-winner-twist-challenge-and

 

BEST TWIST

Up through season 29, I would say my favorite twist is probably the hidden immunity idol. It’s just given us so much story that I laugh when people hit me on Twitter and say, ‘You should do a season without any idols and without any twists.’ And I say, ‘You know, if you think through that for a minute, this is why you can’t always listen to the audience because that makes no sense.’ That’s given us so much story, and when Russell started finding them without clues it evolved yet again. But I will say, in season 30, the theme excites me as much as anything we’ve ever done. Because it’s so real. It’s a real thing. People really are White, Blue, or No Collar. People are going to ask themselves, which one am I? And we do a new twist that’s taking the game to another level. It is jumping the shark, as we’ve done so may times, and pushing the envelope. And it’s interesting how it plays out. It’s very Shakespearean in how it plays out and I imagine that we’ll do it again. And I can tell you that for seasons 31 and 32 we’re contemplating doing another evolution in the game. And those are the things that are on our white board. We have this virtual white board for our creative team, and there are things that have been on there literally 13 years. And 13 years ago we were like, ‘No way, we can’t do that.’ And eight years ago you go, ‘Enh, it’s not quite right.’ And five years ago you go, ‘Maybe.’ And then suddenly you go, ‘You know what? I think it’s time.’ And that’s what fun about a show that’s been on for 30 seasons is that you ultimately get to try all the ideas.”

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It just seems like common sense for the two smaller tribes to band together to gain the majority and take out the dominant tribe. Surprising Carolyn doesn't understand that either.

 

Carolyn hated Shirin, Hali, and Jenn too much to ever consider actually working with them. Apparently she prefers the company of sexist men over young women. I haven't liked Carolyn since the first ep (and boy am I satisfied to see her prove she sucks!), but I'm still surprised by how awful she is.

 

ETA: The above wasn't the article I was referring to. But honestly, I don't know if there's like a direct quote from Probst about this being the 'best season ever.' He was just generally talking it up pre-season, but to a bit more of an extent than he normally does.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Rodney's mouth is what could cost him the money. He has pissed off people with his comments and his behavior but if it was Rodney, Will, Tyler or Rodney, Will Carolyn, or Rodney, Tyler, Carolyn I can see where Rodney could make the case that any of the other three owe their position in the game to him and that someone voting based on strategic play would vote for Rodney.

 

 

Rodney would be a DISASTER at a final tribal. So much so that I could almost root for it to happen for sheer foot-in-mouth entertainment. With the first whiff of "disrespect" from a juror, he would lose his mind and blow his chances all to hell. 

 

ETA:

 

From the article upthread:

 

And we do a new twist that’s taking the game to another level. It is jumping the shark, as we’ve done so may times, and pushing the envelope. 

 

 

Ha, Freudian slip? Either that or Jeff really doesn't understand the meaning of the term "jump the shark." 

Edited by ljenkins782
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In the article sadiegirl linked, Jeff said the best seasons IHO are HvV, BBB and FvF.  He didn't mention the current season at all there. 

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Rodney would be a DISASTER at a final tribal. So much so that I could almost root for it to happen for sheer foot-in-mouth entertainment. With the first whiff of "disrespect" from a juror, he would lose his mind and blow his chances all to hell. 

 

Honestly Rodney will be great entertainment at FTC, as a finalist or a juror. I look forward to it.

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It would be fun to have Rodney at the final tribal. Telling everyone that he has been collective all season and that the girls would be holding themselves to a higher regard if they voted for him.  And when they ask what he did to deserve the win, he could tell them all the plans he had that didn't work out.  

 

Some have questioned why Joe picked Shirin to go on the reward.  I may have a possible answer (how's that for non-committal?).  Someone (perhaps more than one) pointed out that Hali thought Shirin had flipped, not Will, both this vote and last vote.  Perhaps, Joe thought that he could sway Shirin too stay with the NCs,. 

 

However, it appears that Joe's thought people would ally with him because he let them eat salami and pizza.  

Edited by needschocolate
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Some have questioned why Joe picked Shirin to go on the reward.  I may have a possible answer (how's that for non-committal?).  Someone (perhaps more than one) pointed out that Hali thought Shirin had flipped, not Will, both this vote and last vote.  Perhaps, Joe thought that he could sway Shirin too stay with the NCs, and thought Will was already with him.  

 

However, it appears that Joe's thought people would ally with him because he let them eat salami and pizza.  

 

Yea, knowing now that Joe/Hali/Jenn actually thought it was Shirin who flipped on them on the first merge vote makes Joe's choice of Shirin more understandable. But LOL yes, considering he did literally nothing to get anyone to ally with him, it's kind of a moot point.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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He was just saying sorry about her being voted out. He didn't vote for her.

 

Thanks.  I am in the middle of buying a house 2,000 miles away and knee deep in grandchildren.  I missed some of the details! 

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Dan in the water with Shirin was the most disgusting thing I have seen on Survivor so far. It was beyond uncomfortable. Please, never bring that guy on my TV ever again, TPTB. Hell, even Russell would be my first pick for a date if the choice was between these two. 

 

I find Dan worse than Russell too. Russell's a terrible person, but at least he knows it and he owns it, which means that he's rational enough to be reasoned out of, say for example, putting you in the trunk of his car, if you can make him see that it's not in his best interest. Dan, on the other hand, thinks he's a great guy and that he's always right, and that even if he's doing or saying something that would be wrong for most people, everyone will see that it's okay in his case as soon as He Explains It Slowly And With Good Enunciation. I wouldn't enjoy spending time with Russell, but I don't think I'd be afraid of him the way I would be with Dan.

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Russell wasn't playing a character. He is an ass in pretty much every scenario. And he did do a good job with strategy. He simply fails to understand that the social game is important and that he needs to not bully everyone if he wants to win.

 

Dan is trying to play a character. He is intentionally being over the top. He is choosing to target women in his more serious attacks. He has not done a whole heck of a lot when it comes to strategy or challenges.

 

Russell owns his awfulness. He is kind of like Rodney. This is who I am and fuck you. I don't like them. I don't like their attitudes. I don't like what they represent but they are who they are. Dan thinks that the way to be invited back and make good TV is to verbally attack women who are in a weak position game wise. So being a sexist, misogynistic, bully is how he has chosen the play the game.

 

Yeah, that is more disgusting then Russell and Rodney.

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I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff thinks the "new twist" is taking away all of the camp stuff after the merge and making them start over.  As we know, he is prone to exaggeration and overhype.  At this point, the only kind of "new twist" that would satisfy me is some kind of random instant elimination.  "Before we vote, everyone look at the front of your tree stumps.  Oh you sat on the secretly marked stool at Tribal?  You gone.  Get up and get out.  I have spoken."  This would really screw up strategies.

 

I also don't get what he means by "it's very Shakespearean in how it plays out".  I'm wondering if he actually knows what that means, or if he just means it's very dramatic.  Or tragic.  People sacrifice themselves in the game?

 

Rodney at final tribal council:  "I worked hahd for everyone.  I'm a hahd worker.  Look at my bahdy.  Nobahdy of anybahdy of you can't say I don't not deserve to be here.  When the game was unstationary, I made my moves without moving and all of you didn't think that I was being DeNiro." 

 

Please let him make final three, it would be hilarious.

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I think Will thinks that Rodney is gonna take him all the way to the end. Idiot. Riding the coattails of someone else is NEVER EVER gonna get you the WIN.

It will if that someone else gives a sufficiently horrible jury speech and gets angry and passive-aggressive whenever presented with a jury question.

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