S01.E03: The Exterminator

[Just Here]

  "Jeanie" looked familiar, but I don't think you get Jennifer Ferrin in for such a teeny part.

 

The end credits listed the "Trivia Genie" as Carrie Anne Fleming (IMDb profile), who has had a scattering of minor roles since the mid-1990s.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I think it's fun to see what traits and personality quirks Liv will have each week.

I just hope the writers don't get lazy. They did on Quantum Leap and what the main character became each week turned into a meaningless throwaway, leaving viewers with a formulaic detective show.

[Actionmage]

It's not a gag. It's the point of the show. Liv eats the brain of the victim, takes on part of the victims personality allowing her to help solve their murder.

 

Yeah, I like that the show had a Columbo-type of "here is your killer of the week" thing. As we saw just this week and in the pilot, we don't always get that piece of the case. What's cool is how the victim can contribute to solving their own case, imo. Liv truly is a voice for the dead.

 

I just hope that Blaine doesn't get supervillain-y. I like smart nemises, but making Blaine like some of the serial killers on other procedurals would turn me off.  (Red John from The Mentalist being the biggest offender to me.) I don't think that should be a problem, but you never know.

[DittyDotDot]

It's not a gag. It's the point of the show. Liv eats the brain of the victim, takes on part of the victims personality allowing her to help solve their murder. 

 

I think it's fun to see what traits and personality quirks Liv will have each week. It will be even more fun if more than one person died and she eats both brains, will she have both at the same time and how will they interact with each other. Will they argue with each other making her seem like she's crazy. 

 

IMO, it can be the point of the show and a gag. Right now I see it more as a gag, meaning it's a fun device that gets us into these cases, but isn't actually necessary. The visions are what help her solve the crimes, not the personality traits which are more inserted for laughs, IMO.

 

I also think it could become problematic, not only in being a constant problem solver for the writers, but also, who is Liv if she's constantly someone else? At this point, Liv has never been herself, she's always on someone else's brain. I think this could become a real problem as the series goes on simply because the main character could become a non-character and only a plot device quickly.

 

Right now, when everything is new and shiny, it's a fun gag, IMO. I'm just wondering how long it will remain fun? Maybe it will always be fun? I was just thinking out loud, no offense intended.

[BPOX]

 

"Liv mcguyvers her way out of a drug lab by manufacturing explosives, a battery and detonators all from scratch" only to then at the end to reveal that the brain she is currently on was an english literature professor would be very funny. To me.

 

 

I like it. I want to see it.

 

 

Right now, when everything is new and shiny, it's a fun gag, IMO. I'm just wondering how long it will remain fun?

 

Well, I don't think they can keep the same thing going indefinitely. The writers would run out of fun ideas and it would lose it's novelty. But I doubt they intend to keep it going indefinitely. Usually shows start up with a lot of short self contained episodes and introduce medium term and long term arcs. Once they get going they are usually more focused on the medium term and long term arcs. So I suspect soon we'll see her get more focused on combating Blain's efforts to build a zombie mob army, or maybe help him fight it once things spiral out of control. To do this I expect she'll start storing brains and using the skills from each strategically.  Or I guess they try to incapacitate her by feeding her nothing but a diet of choir boys. Either way, I think we'll get a more stable sense of character later. Further, we've seen the big hint with her school mate that the risk of starvation and becoming an animal will probably have to be faced eventually. We'd see a lot of just Liv vs monster in this conflict. Then she might learn she doesn't really need the brains or come up with a substitute after prolonged captivity or starvation.

 

But anyhow I disagree that we don't know anything about Liv's character. First off, she just plain seems to have a base personality to me, given one in a struggle. Second, I think in fiction character is a lot about the choices you make, and we learn more about her by what she is surprised by, what she embraces, what she rejects and why. She shares her reasoning in the voice overs, so we really get a lot of introspection for TV.

Edited April 7, 2015 by BPOX

[DittyDotDot]

My point more was though, how do we know that's Liv's reaction and not the reaction of the brain she's currently eating?

[Watcher0363]

Maybe she simply practiced? That drawing of the car looked somewhat competent, but hardly something only a professional painter could do. Plus she might have learned a lot faster while still in possession of the skills, so if she decides to pick up some of the skills or traits she experienced, her getting a head start over a total beginner wouldn't seem unreasonable. The major theme of the show seems to be how she's starting to live now that she's dead, so I guess she'll keep trying out things she finds out she likes (or sees as potentially useful), which she wouldn't have in her old life. And if she doesn't like something, well, no reason to "keep" it. To me, this reads more like character development than a crutch to fill plot holes.

Well there was this episode of Buffy when Xander was possessed by a solider spirit. Then like two years later in another episode Xander revealed that he remembered some of his soldier knowledge. I say, well there you have it. Josh approved deus ex machina.

[BPOX]

My point more was though, how do we know that's Liv's reaction and not the reaction of the brain she's currently eating?

I'm sure that's a legitimate question that we can see her ask herself after some character development at some point in the future. Especially if she eats a philosophy professor or something. But I think it's really not that tricky for the moment. She knows what she has been like, and the thread that stays relatively constant between meals. And the other possibility I didn't discuss is maybe she habituates a bit to this and doesn't get so taken over as she comes to develop a stronger sense of self through her series of choices. In other words, I feel like it is a relatively interesting problem to have, so not really something I count as a weakness in the show's premise.

Edited April 7, 2015 by BPOX

[DittyDotDot]

I'm sure that's a legitimate question that we can see her ask herself after some character development at some point in the future. Especially if she eats a philosophy professor or something. But I think it's really not that tricky for the moment. She knows what she has been like, and the thread that stays relatively constant between meals. And the other possibility I didn't discuss is maybe she habituates a bit to this and doesn't get so taken over as she comes to develop a stronger sense of self through her series of choices. In other words, I feel like it is a relatively interesting problem to have, so not really something I count as a weakness in the show's premise.

 

But there is no in-between meals, so to speak. Either she eats brains or she becomes fully zombified...so there's never a time she's not under the influence of another person's brain. She's never just Liv, IMO. Every week she's someone different, so how is the audience suppose to know who Liv actually is?

[BPOX]

Are you the same person you were when you were four? Fourteen? If you reach eighty four, will you be the same person? What about drunk? Sleepy? Depressed. Are you the same person you are at work, or the person you are alone. Or are you only really you when you are playing Monopoly with your friends?

 

I don't see as it's really that different of a question.

[Solace247]

I think Liv's personality shines through in each episode. She's cynical and witty, those are her traits for sure. Now, whether they're post-z traits or not, we don't know since all we have to go on is that opening scene in the pilot and whatever lines her family and friends have uttered regarding what she used to be like. I'm leaning towards those being newly acquired traits as a result of having lived as a zombie for these few months. She does care for others, though. Otherwise, I don't think she'd be doing what she's doing. That's Liv too.

As for the traits ands skills acquired from eating brains, it's been my impression that Liv experiences them intermittently like she does her visions. Or maybe they always linger, sometimes in the foreground and sometimes in the background, but Liv's there too. (That was not the fist-pump of a sociopath... I don't think. :) )

[Conan Troutman]

Well there was this episode of Buffy when Xander was possessed by a solider spirit. Then like two years later in another episode Xander revealed that he remembered some of his soldier knowledge. I say, well there you have it. Josh approved deus ex machina.

 

That's not deus ex machina. Just because something isn't laid out in great detail beforehand doesn't make it deus ex machina.

Anyway, that actually worked, maybe it wasn't incredibly logical, but it definitely was entertaining. If that show manages to draw more Buffy comparisons, I won't complain.

 

But there is no in-between meals, so to speak. Either she eats brains or she becomes fully zombified...so there's never a time she's not under the influence of another person's brain. She's never just Liv, IMO. Every week she's someone different, so how is the audience suppose to know who Liv actually is?

 

I think the show did a good job of differentiating between Liv's true self and the personality of the week. It was pretty obvious this episode, with all the talk about how she hates that whole ASPD thing. The main problem at this point I think is that people are confusing the fact that she really doesn't have a strong personality of her own yet with it not shining through because of the adopts-traits-via-brain-eating thingy. It's been pointed out that old, alive Liv didn't really have much of a personality to begin with - other than nice, perfect and boring, there wasn't much. That's kind of the point of the show.

[DittyDotDot]

The main problem at this point I think is that people are confusing the fact that she really doesn't have a strong personality of her own yet with it not shining through because of the adopts-traits-via-brain-eating thingy. It's been pointed out that old, alive Liv didn't really have much of a personality to begin with - other than nice, perfect and boring, there wasn't much. That's kind of the point of the show.

 

While maybe not an exciting personality--like a kleptomaniac hooker or a sexed up artist or a sociopathic hit man--I'm sure Liv wasn't devoid of personality before being zombified. Now, she's whatever she eats. I'd say she displayed more personality in the couple short scenes before being scratched and now has less personality as a zombie.

 

ETA: Sounds like you're saying the point of the show is: if you're boring (which is totally subjective) don't be yourself, make yourself someone your not. It's more fun that way.

Edited April 7, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Sakura12]

I'm thinking we might get more flashbacks to Liv pre-zombie. But we do know that her personality did a 180 from her family and friends. She used to be a Type A personality that took charge and planned her whole life out without ever really taking time to smell the roses. If it didn't interest her, she didn't care. 

 

For me the show is telling me that planning your whole life isn't really living. Liv is more alive now then she was before. She's experiencing things she gave no thought to before. She's doing things outside her comfort zone and finding she's enjoying some of them. She gets to walk a mile in other people shoes and see how their lives were. People always say that, but never get to actually do it. The part that still shines through is her want to help people. She was going to be a doctor saving lives, now she's a medical examiner catching murderers to save future victims. 

[DittyDotDot]

Why was her life as a doctor with friends, family and hopes and dreams any less living. I disagree with the idea she's living and/or experiencing more now as a zombie. Maybe she wasn't painting, but she was also saving lives. I think both types of living can be just as fulfilling as long as you're engaged in that living--which it appeared to me she was.

 

Personally, my take away is not that she's living more now, but learning to accept her life isn't what it used to be and find some joy anyway. I think she was perfectly satisfied with her life before--it seemed to engage and fulfill her fine and she seemed quite happy to me--but that's not her life anymore. She can either choose to hold up in her room eating chips and watching workout videos or she can get out there and experience this new life which has it's own perks as well.

[Sakura12]

To me they made it seem like Liv was just marking of check boxes of her life. College, check. engaged, check. Doctor, check. If it wasn't on her list, it didn't matter. I'm not saying that real people that plan their life out aren't fulfilled. That's what I pulled from the show.

[dubbel zout]

Given where Liv was in her medical career, she probably wouldn't have much time for much else. She had to treat things as a list in order to get them done. That's just how it was. Becoming a zombie freed her a bit from that structure.

 

Personally, my take away is not that she's living more now, but learning to accept her life isn't what it used to be and find some joy anyway. I think she was perfectly satisfied with her life before--it seemed to engage and fulfill her fine and she seemed quite happy to me--but that's not her life anymore.

 

I agree. Her life now isn't what she wanted or expected it to be, but she's learning that it has its own advantages. It's not necessarily better or worse than her pre-zombie life. It's just different.

[Watcher0363]

That's not deus ex machina. Just because something isn't laid out in great detail beforehand doesn't make it deus ex machina.

Anyway, that actually worked, maybe it wasn't incredibly logical, but it definitely was entertaining. If that show manages to draw more Buffy comparisons, I won't complain.

I must disagree the Buffy example was a mild deus ex machina. However Liv's brain eating memory gain powers is the ultimate in deus ex machina, if you consider the true origins of the phrase. Every personality she absorbs can be considered a god. Although the prominence of the personalities fade over time, vestiges will remain. Those vestiges can and will be called upon many times in this series to solve conflicts. Just as during the Greek plays, any god at any moment could his or her self appear or supply some winged horse to save our hero or heroine. Deus ex machina is not so much about something not being planned in detail. It is more about moving the story forward more quickly without much exposition or when the writer has written themselves into a near impossible corner and needs and extra ordinary solution device. Which will happen if you write a lot.

 

In short if this series last, writers reviewing this show will bring up the deus ex machina nature of her zombie powers all the time.

 

Why was her life as a doctor with friends, family and hopes and dreams any less living. I disagree with the idea she's living and/or experiencing more now as a zombie. Maybe she wasn't painting, but she was also saving lives. I think both types of living can be just as fulfilling as long as you're engaged in that living--which it appeared to me she was.

 

Personally, my take away is not that she's living more now, but learning to accept her life isn't what it used to be and find some joy anyway. I think she was perfectly satisfied with her life before--it seemed to engage and fulfill her fine and she seemed quite happy to me--but that's not her life anymore. She can either choose to hold up in her room eating chips and watching workout videos or she can get out there and experience this new life which has it's own perks as well.

Her closing monologue in the 1st. episode pretty much said she was not living before becoming a zombie. She was just going through the motions of life.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Watcher0363

[Actionmage]

For those curious, Evan is Liv's brother and Eva is Liv's mom. (source: IMDb)

[Lady Calypso]

Why was her life as a doctor with friends, family and hopes and dreams any less living. I disagree with the idea she's living and/or experiencing more now as a zombie. Maybe she wasn't painting, but she was also saving lives. I think both types of living can be just as fulfilling as long as you're engaged in that living--which it appeared to me she was.

 

Personally, my take away is not that she's living more now, but learning to accept her life isn't what it used to be and find some joy anyway. I think she was perfectly satisfied with her life before--it seemed to engage and fulfill her fine and she seemed quite happy to me--but that's not her life anymore. She can either choose to hold up in her room eating chips and watching workout videos or she can get out there and experience this new life which has it's own perks as well.

 

We don't know a whole lot about her life pre-zombie yet, which is understandable given we've only had a few episodes, so there's time to address more of that in upcoming episodes. We only really know about her pre-zombie life in her voiceovers, and we got a few scenes in the pilot. But I think when she said that she only started living after she died, it was the truth. In the pilot, it did seem like she was just going through the motions. She may have been living, but she wasn't 'living' in the sense that she could have been. It seemed like her life was at the hospital, and yes she was engaged, but we don't know enough about her relationship with Major up to that point. She wasn't taking risks, she was playing things safe and she probably didn't have an exciting life, which is what I think she means when she says she wasn't living. Now, she doesn't have to worry about any of that because of her new status as a zombie. But I do agree with you. Obviously, she must have had something to offer or else Major wouldn't have dated her, let alone proposed to her. 

[AudienceofOne]

Evan is Liv's brother and Eva is Liv's mom

 

 

Live More

Even More and

Ever More

 

Oh, show.