Lightning Rods: Gender, Race, Homosexuality and Other Sensitive Topics

[wayne67]

He could be a carrier. His super healing shouldn't mean foreign organisms are immediately annihilated, otherwise his digestive system would be screwed.

 

Well from what little we've seen, his healing renders alcohol which is effectively a toxin inert within seconds even when it's *cough* 200 proof... Also he ate what seemed like 30 burgers in one sitting judging from that pile of wrappers, so his metabolism may work super fast to digest that food as he never had to go to the bathroom.

 

Of course his powers are poorly explained. I don't think they have ever mentioned speed force as the reason why other people don't melt in his arms or why his face doesn't need to be covered.

 

 

And you can't slut shame men since they're applauded for having multiple partners. You can't shame a group for something that's not considered shameful for them.

 

If only this was true my life would have been so much easier. People who engage in gay sex are frequently made the target of people who want to make us ashamed of our sex lives, be it bible bashers who claim it's an abomination to straight/gay people who aren't getting as much sex as you are, or people who deem 'open relationships' slutty.

Seriously I'm a guy and I've been called a slut countless times and if you hear it enough from people it really does start to wear on your self identity. From friends, lover and even random people. Women aren't the only people who get called out on their sex lives.  I used to have a saying whenever anyone called me a slut, "I'm not a slut, I'm just popular."

Edited April 24, 2015 by wayne67

[driedfruit]

Fair point about gay men. But that still doesn't mean we can slut shame Oliver or Barry since their sexual activities are restricted to women.

 

Well from what little we've seen, his healing renders alcohol which is effectively a toxin inert within seconds even when it's *cough* 200 proof... Also he ate what seemed like 30 burgers in one sitting judging from that pile of wrappers, so his metabolism may work super fast to digest that food as he never had to go to the bathroom.

 

Of course his powers are poorly explained. I don't think they have ever mentioned speed force as the reason why other people don't melt in his arms or why his face doesn't need to be covered.

 

So his WBC are better at targeting non-self antigens and nothing goes amiss? I guess, although if the STD is dormant and doesn't cause cell damage perhaps it may go undetected without triggering an immune response. So couldn't he possibly be a carrier and infect his partners?

Edited April 24, 2015 by driedfruit

[wayne67]

So his WBC are better at targeting non-self antigens and nothing goes amiss? I guess, although if the STD is dormant and doesn't cause cell damage perhaps it may go undetected without triggering an immune response. So couldn't he possibly be a carrier and infect his partners?

 

There's really only one STD that is untreatable so unless he's having lots of unprotected sex I'm sure his daily blood tests by the Team Flash would catch any minor STD's and he'll be treated before he spreads it too far. At least it'd give Caitlin something to do again. She could snark on Barry's sex life. That'd be fun. Or she could use her super science powers to make an immunisation shot. That way Cisco wouldn't be the only one making improbable advancements in science from spare parts in his spare time. She could create an immunisation against all known STD's leaving him free to run wild.

 

It's not like he's using his super speed to engage in 20 different sexual relationships at the same time, I really doubt him having an active sex life would leave him any more susceptible to STD's then the women of Sex in the City who engage in way more sex and never seem to have that issue. I only watched a few episodes though , maybe it came up. The use of condoms to prevent the spread of STD's is seldom ever mentioned on tv, condom use is only mentioned in regard to pregnancy scares.

 

I guess American shows like their attractive 20 year olds to engage in lots of love triangles without mentioning anything about safe sex.

Edited April 24, 2015 by wayne67

[Oscirus]

I found it a bit distasteful that Caitlin got sexually assaulted and the writers thought that was an ok scene because she ended up liking the kiss. Admittedly I'm going to the extreme but still.

 

Also distasteful: there are literally only like a half-dozen female recurring characters on Arrow that are not related to Ollie who have not slept with him or wanted to sleep with him

 

Strangely enough, they seem to be going that route with Iris ( well not the sleeping with part but the other part). So far there's Barry, Eddie, Tony, Cisco called her hot, assuming they follow the comic books, Eobard probably wouldn't mind, The Trickster hit on her in the middle of a robbery and who knows what the clock king had in store for her.

[wayne67]

 

Strangely enough, they seem to be going that route with Iris ( well not the sleeping with part but the other part). So far there's Barry, Eddie, Tony, Cisco called her hot, assuming they follow the comic books, Eobard probably wouldn't mind, The Trickster hit on her in the middle of a robbery and who knows what the clock king had in store for her.

 

At least with Smallville they varied who the mutant freak of the week was obsessed with so that there was variety as to who was going to be kidnapped and held captive from Lex, Lana and Chloe. Iris is only in a relationship with one of those people and the other people are grimy perverts... :P lol

[driedfruit]

LOL at Caitlin creating a super STD vaccine. She is rather authoritative with Barry and Cisco at times, but they're not exactly getting a lot. Perhaps if Oliver hangs around at CC more she'll be inspired to do it. 

 

Strangely enough, they seem to be going that route with Iris ( well not the sleeping with part but the other part). So far there's Barry, Eddie, Tony, Cisco called her hot, assuming they follow the comic books, Eobard probably wouldn't mind, The Trickster hit on her in the middle of a robbery and who knows what the clock king had in store for her.

 

I don't think it's fair to compare Oliver's case to Iris'. Creepy (and evil) men hitting on or leering at a gorgeous woman is not only commonplace and realistic, but also not welcome or to Iris' credit as some sort of sex god. It's just there to show how pathetic and gross most of these pervs are.

Edited April 24, 2015 by driedfruit

[FurryFury]

assuming they follow the comic books, Eobard probably wouldn't mind

 

What's that about Eobard and Iris in the comics? Did he kidnap her and fall in love with or something? (Just a guess. Seems like a thing a comic book villain would do).

[Oscirus]

Just in case. My memories a bit blurry but I believe this is right. 

The short version is, he proposes to her, she refuses, she gets a vibrating hand to the brain courtesy of Eobard

[marketdoctor]

I think Oliver's been described as a "playboy", which for men usually is a term for having a lot of partners (whether it's positive or negative is in context; usually it's a little negative but sometimes it can be wish projection.)  8 in about as many years isn't a huge number, but there's a double standard IRL for men vs. women.  That's wrong and not the show's fault.

 

 

I wondered...is Everyman (show version or comic version) bisexual?  Leaving aside for the moment that you probably shouldn't date someone who regularly frames people for crimes, this is a chance for The Flash/CW to take trans-issues and do a sensitive portrayal of...sorry, forgot who they were.  It's a chance for them to be slightly more progressive than society, and make small steps in the right direction. My best guess is that show Everyman is having such identity issues of his own that sex isn't a big priority (right now, getting out of that prison is a bigger one), but he's only shown romantic interest in Caityn, and whether that was to be a distraction or because it was an opportunity to kiss a beautiful woman (or both) isn't resolved. 

[wayne67]

LOL at Caitlin creating a super STD vaccine. She is rather authoritative with Barry and Cisco at times, but they're not exactly getting a lot. Perhaps if Oliver hangs around at CC more she'll be inspired to do it.

 

Do you think Oliver will pick up a Super STD from one of his 'conquests' and will need to get treatment from a Super Science medical doctor for treatment?  I'd actually like to see that, there would be such potential for comedy gold. Though I don't know how metahuman the villains/heroes of Arrow are so it's probably unlikely.

 

Anyone else thinking that Barry would have to use a special type of condom for sex to prevent breakage?

 

Yes I've officially spent too much time thinking about Barry's sex life now. Now off to think about whether Cloud would classify as an Omega Mutant or not.

[phoenics]

Well, this thread escalated quickly, lol.

[Oscirus]

It's just there to show how pathetic and gross most of these pervs are.

 

Those scenes are more likely there for the writers to show the viewers that Iris is desirable.  Shows tend to do that nowadays.

[DayOwl]

 

Another issue with a triangle involving Caitlin and Iris is that the only female mains on the show getting pitted against each other over a guy is incredibly unsavoury.

 

I find pitting them against each other unsavory, no matter the context, and it's already happening all over the place (though you're right, it's typically based on who ships which actress with the leading male). Twitter constantly has the "RT for Iris West, Fav for Caitlin Snow" tweets, and another Flash forum I frequent online has a poll set up for people to vote on "most attractive actress" on the show. If I were CP and DP, I would try to shut that shit down fast. Nothing good ever comes from two actresses on the same show being constantly compared to one another so fans of one can rip the other one to shreds to make their favorite look better. The only way it stops is if the producers/writers and cast of the show speak out against it. But I don't see them doing that.

 

[BPOX]

The only way it stops is if the producers/writers and cast of the show speak out against it. But I don't see them doing that.

 

I don't think it stops, that is what people do with ships to some extent all the time. It helps a bit if the vibe is there are enough relationships to go around, friends and romantic as opposed to setting up the main character with a harem to chose between. The thing is though that I think with super hero shows come with a strong thread of wish fulfillment inherent in them. This a fantasy of supernatural power, and with that power comes more romantic possibility than the norm. That's part of the appeal.

Edited April 25, 2015 by BPOX

[driedfruit]

Those scenes are more likely there for the writers to show the viewers that Iris is desirable.  Shows tend to do that nowadays.

 

That may be their intent, but that's not how it comes across. It's extremely gross to subject a female character to unwanted attention and cast that as her allure instead of a negative situation. 

 

Not that I expect the writers understand that. 

 

It's the same problem as with Bates kissing Caitlin without consent. I get that the show used it as an opportunity to throw their shippers a bone, but that doesn't erase how gross the act was. As bad as Moffat is, at least when Eleven landed one on Jenny he got a swift slap in response (gross still, but better than Flash).

[Lokiberry]

 

As bad as Moffat is, at least when Eleven landed one on Jenny he got a swift slap in response (gross still, but better than Flash).

Who's Jenny?

[BPOX]

Lizard lady Sherlock Holmes from a land before time. It doesn't really help to know this. It does help to know she is an ally and felt safe objecting. Unlike Caitlin would.

Oh wait, sorry Lizard lady's girlfriend. Ally and safe points still stand.

[driedfruit]

Who's Jenny?

 

Vastra's lover/girlfriend/wife (I'm not sure what their relationship status is). 

 

It does help to know she is an ally and felt safe objecting. Unlike Caitlin would.

 

Caitlin thought it was Barry so why shouldn't she feel safe objecting?

 

There were less gross ways around having the actors kiss. Perhaps if Caitlin got tipped off by his flirting and reciprocated to play along so she could inject him with the magic cure as they kissed.

Edited April 26, 2015 by driedfruit

[BPOX]

Caitlin thought it was Barry so why shouldn't she feel safe objecting?

 

She didn't act comfortable to me. The way I read the scene she was suspicious then playing along. After she pushes him away and he kisses her again, there is a moment when she maybe seems into it, I grant. Then in the scene where Iris is trying to show the Eddie footage she looks super freaked out to me. Her posture is tense and she is giving him serious side eye most of the scene. Then she isn't really surprised by Wells shooting Barry so much as relieved and says she knew it. Maybe she wasn't sure, but she seemed scared enough to me.

 

Mark 25:05 on the CW website if you want to rewatch and come to your own conclusion.

Edited April 26, 2015 by BPOX

[driedfruit]

She didn't act comfortable to me. The way I read the scene she was suspicious then playing along. After she pushes him away and he kisses her again, there is a moment when she maybe seems into it, I grant. Then in the scene where Iris is trying to show the Eddie footage she looks super freaked out to me. Her posture is tense and she is giving him serious side eye most of the scene. Then she isn't really surprised by Wells shooting Barry so much as relieved and says she knew it. Maybe she wasn't sure, but she seemed scared enough to me.

 

She didn't act like she was suspicious, just freaked out and awkward because Barry kissed her and the girl he loves showed up.

 

If Caitlin suspected even a little that it was the impostor--someone who she knows is extremely dangerous and considering the information she and Iris just divulged would be an immediate danger to them both--she wouldn't just stand there and look guilty. 

Edited April 26, 2015 by driedfruit

[Oscirus]

The worst part about that scene is the shippers using it to say those two have chemistry. It doesn't make sense because :
A) it was a forced kiss

b) that wasn't Barry it was someone acting like Barry. If you're getting chemistry from that scene then the actors didn't do their job.

 

So far on the list of jobs that Joe has banned Iris from: Cop, District Attorney, Blogger. I'm assuming that he let her keep the reporter job because he didn't pay close enough attention to the mail the day that offer came in.

[phoenics]

The worst part about that scene is the shippers using it to say those two have chemistry. It doesn't make sense because :

A) it was a forced kiss

b) that wasn't Barry it was someone acting like Barry. If you're getting chemistry from that scene then the actors didn't do their job.

 

So far on the list of jobs that Joe has banned Iris from: Cop, District Attorney, Blogger. I'm assuming that he let her keep the reporter job because he didn't pay close enough attention to the mail the day that offer came in.

I'm also assuming he kept her from whatever career she was looking at when she was studying to get her PhD... unless that was her criminal justice focus (the district attorney angle). That's kind of disgusting and awful.

I really hope Iris comes into her own after this and refuses to let anyone stop her career path and her growth.

[kikaha]

 

So far on the list of jobs that Joe has banned Iris from: Cop, District Attorney, Blogger. I'm assuming that he let her keep the reporter job because he didn't pay close enough attention to the mail the day that offer came in.

 

He hasn't banned her from DA or blogger: he doesn't have the power to do that.  He expressed his fears, as many parents would, especially a single father towards his only daughter. 

 

Joe's position in the police department might let him stop her from being a cop, at least in Starling City.  She could still go most anywhere else, if that's what she really wants. 

[Oscirus]

He hasn't banned her from DA or blogger: he doesn't have the power to do that.  He expressed his fears, as many parents would, especially a single father towards his only daughter.

 

You're right, he doesn't have the power to do that.  As for expressing his fears, no he didn't. He told Quentin Lance that he wouldn't allow his daughter to be a district  attorney.  Which given their relationship is not a hard thing to do.

[Lord Malvolio]

Ok, finally read some of the responses to my questions about iris and the police captain. I have been away from comics for a while and was unaware about those changes. Now it seems silly I even asked about it. But it is a tad strange there are still no black guys in Central City even remotely interested in Iris? Just saying....

[driedfruit]

But it is a tad strange there are still no black guys in Central City even remotely interested in Iris? Just saying....

 

That's because the only black guy we've met in Central City is her dad. 

[Jenesis]

That's because the only black guy we've met in Central City is her dad. 

 To tell you the truth, the question should be "Why don't/didn't they cast more black people on the Flash?" if we are going to start questioning Iris' interracial relationships/desirabilty. But then, *gasp* there would be too many black people on one show and people would start trying to send it to BET.

 

It would have been entirely possible for Eddie to have been black and Eobard still get played by TC.

The Allen family has black members in the 30th/31st century. See comic Barry's granddaughterJenni Ognats AKA XS. So a black Eddie can be the ancestor of a white man.

 

Iris has to interact with the cast, and if they cast white people, oh well, that's what they have to work with.

[Actionmage]

From the "Grodd Lives" thread:

 

The criticism she gets in a lot of the nastier places basically amounts to, "How dare she have negative human emotions?" and "How dare she have an opinion opposite to the main male characters" and "How dare she fault the male protagonist for anything when he's out there saving lives, since that apparently gives him immunity for everything he does to anyone". It's just any old case of people feeling threatened by a female character getting the smallest bit of prominence in a male power fantasy.

 

It also goes back to how women are socialized. Women are expected to not express their anger, especially in public where it may cause a scene or embarrass someone.  Women are supposed to just not worry over whoever is making them angry- that other person in clearly wrong, but getting angry about something already done won't make it right/correct the action or deed. It's just not ladylike to get angry. I am sure I am forgetting some gems.

 

Iris, after twenty-odd episodes has the Truth still being denied, but unraveling in front of her. Each new conversation with a trusted person shows more lies and secret-keeping and actual danger not being explained to her. By all metrics, she should be furious and possibly, leave town to get some distance and thinking time. Most of us here have expressed positive support of Iris not being unreasonable in her anger, what with Joe and Eddie in life-and-death situations.

 

Strangely enough, there are folks who think that Iris is completely over her anger, if she ever really was, and has totally forgiven and forgotten any bad acts her loved ones enacted. Then you have the folks who believe that Iris is the most self-involved navel-gazer ever; how can she think of herself while other people have actual problems? Both reactions, to me, show just how far we haven't come. 

 

Women dare to express their negative sides, and they are the bitchiest bitches of bitchdonia.  They act reasonable and actually mention that they aren't over their anger, but don't actively act out in their anger and the women are the most mindless marshmallows the writers could conceive.  I don't envy staff writers on this show.

 

Then, as phoenics and other posters have pointed out, Iris is now intersectional, so you have the Angry Black Woman layer to think on. I personally don't believe that Iris fell into that, but I'm not "the audience", just a part of it. 

[FurryFury]

I think the problem is that the show never really tries to make the viewers truly understand Iris, to make her the POV protagonist of at least a small story. For me, I automatically empathize with a female character unless she's written and acted really badly (Laurel). It's just my gut reaction. But most people just empathize with the hero or whomever the show tells them to. And the show's just sending mixed signals.

[driedfruit]

I think the problem is that the show never really tries to make the viewers truly understand Iris, to make her the POV protagonist of at least a small story. For me, I automatically empathize with a female character unless she's written and acted really badly (Laurel). It's just my gut reaction. But most people just empathize with the hero or whomever the show tells them to. And the show's just sending mixed signals.

 

I agree with that for the most part, but I thought this episode did a good job of showing her POV and the hate she has incited for it in certain factions of the fandom is entirely on them and comes across as egregiously unreasonable.And look at how well loved Eddie and Joe are when neither of whom is very developed and gets less of a POV than Iris, and both of whom have done and said a lot of questionable things.  

 

Besides, the same attitudes are present in book fandoms where the hated female characters get their own POV chapters.

[FurryFury]

I agree with that for the most part, but I thought this episode did a good job of showing her POV and the hate she has incited for it in certain factions of the fandom is entirely on them and comes across as egregiously unreasonable.

 

It was too late, though. I think the show should have really showed us the consequences of this lie of Barry's (and Joe's) for Iris, and it didn't, it was all tell. For me, it still worked because it was something I've grown to care about and be mad about, but most people need to be invested in the character in the first place, and until that episode, she wasn't a real player in the show, just somebody on the sidelines. I think many viewers just don't see Iris as a real person, just an object of Barry's affections, and thus for them, her feelings and opinions don't matter. Which sucks, of course, but it is definitely the writing's fault.

[Grace19]

Is the writing at fault sometimes? yes, but the amount of hate this character gets goes far beyond that, if her lack of pov was the driving force, most who hate the character would just not care about the character, but some care enough to want her dead. Eddie gets less pov than her but you dont see anyone wishing he gets killed or written out. From what I've seen, sexism is the driving force behind the hate, ship preference is also a factor and in few cases, racism. its like some can't empathize with her.

I'm not saying the character must be loved by everyone, I'm just saying the character have not done anything to deserve the level of hate she gets.

[driedfruit]

It was too late, though. I think the show should have really showed us the consequences of this lie of Barry's (and Joe's) for Iris, and it didn't, it was all tell. For me, it still worked because it was something I've grown to care about and be mad about, but most people need to be invested in the character in the first place, and until that episode, she wasn't a real player in the show, just somebody on the sidelines. I think many viewers just don't see Iris as a real person, just an object of Barry's affections, and thus for them, her feelings and opinions don't matter. Which sucks, of course, but it is definitely the writing's fault.

 

But look at Eddie who was sidelined way worse than Iris for most of the second part of the season. The instant he got a POV everyone was falling over themselves feeling bad for him and trying to excuse his shitty behaviour towards his live in girlfriend.

 

I hate the way Iris was treated for most of the second half of the season, but the show has been giving her a POV for the past three episodes, and the people refusing to accept it and stubbornly clinging on to this false view of her as a shrew/bitch/whiny (something the show itself very explicitly rejects) for having perfectly rational reactions are still sexist and willfully ignorant. The double standard is very much in effect here. 

[Oscirus]

The problem with Iris is what I like to call the "A-team" useless female effect. When people watch these type of shows people want to see action, when the LI isn't in on the secret and isn't in an action oriented job then the action stops when she is on the screen. People tend to transfer their hatred of the action stoppage to the person that they see responsible in this case, Iris.

 

I would be a fool to say there isn't some racism and sexism involved.  But it works both ways. As much hate as I see Iris get on most sites (not this one, but on others), I always see people defending her a lot more vigorously then I see them doing for the other LIs.,,

[FurryFury]

And than some female characters who continually get attacked without being LIs. There are some that aren't defended, ever. Curiously, they are usually not connected to any significant romance. Just an observation.

 

I'm sure a part of hate for Iris is based on her gender and race, but it's way more complicated than that, I'm afraid.

[driedfruit]

The problem with Iris is what I like to call the "A-team" useless female effect. When people watch these type of shows people want to see action, when the LI isn't in on the secret and isn't in an action oriented job then the action stops when she is on the screen. People tend to transfer their hatred of the action stoppage to the person that they see responsible in this case, Iris.

 

Yes and no. Eddie and Joe and Henry any male character can be involved in mostly no-action and even soapy aspects of the show (that's pretty much all Eddie has been reduced to thus far) and they still wouldn't get the same kind of hate for it. No-action stuff is okay as long as it's not stupid girl stuff....cue sexism. 

 

I would be a fool to say there isn't some racism and sexism involved.  But it works both ways. As much hate as I see Iris get on most sites (not this one, but on others), I always see people defending her a lot more vigorously then I see them doing for the other LIs.,,

 

 

I'd put her getting vigorously defended down to there being no real reasons for the hate, hence the criticism is always extra gross and way off the grid of canon. And it doesn't hurt that Candice Patton is spectacularly talented. It'd be silly to assume it's solely due to her race, since so often WoC aren't widely supported despite the hate they get in fandom. Especially in CW fandoms (Bonnie or Vanessa Abrams anyone?)

Edited May 9, 2015 by driedfruit

[Grace19]

Whether a woman is the LI or not, people are way less sympathetic to her than her male counterpart, take Arrow, (I only watched it a while for Diggle and Malcolm I stopped because I couldn't stand Oliver and the Felicity worship), Oliver is like the worst, but I hardly see any hate for him, all the hate were shifted to Laurel, (who I am indifferent to, I heard she's better now). Funny enough recently I saw people complaining about Felicity being annoying, I guess since she no longer worships the "Hero", she is as bad as Laurel. I just think that in shows like this, some part of the fandom only care about a female character if she pines after the guy. if they guy is the one pinning, they start asking why the LI "deserves" the heroes love. except for this forum, I hardly come across anyone asking why the guy deserves the love of the LI.

[FurryFury]

No idea who's Vanessa Abrams, but Bonnie has always got more shit from the writers than the fans, I think. I mean, I genuinely believe that there was an element of racism there because she got the worst storylines and 90% of black people on that show were related, which really strained my suspension of disbelief (granted, I don't know much about this stuff, not being American, but it just felt wrong to me). I think she got some passionate defendants as well as attackers. I don't see any people defending Skye, for instance. 

 

Oliver is like the worst, but I hardly see any hate for him, all the hate were shifted to Laurel,

 

Well, as a person who doesn't like both, Laurel is simply the worse written character of the two, hands down. And the actress is just REALLY bad.  In this case, you really shouldn't criticize the fandom, because their reactions make a lot of sense (and now, I see a lot of dislike for Oliver as well).

[driedfruit]

The writing for Bonnie was solid in the first season, the change in the writing staff in the following season screwed her over. But fandom hated her long before that, and bashed her for being mean to Damon. That's the crux of how female characters are treated in fandom: the moment they oppose a beloved male (or simply don't offer their bodies on a platter), they're painted as the bitch.

 

LI fall into one or both of these categories, hence the massive hate. 

Edited May 10, 2015 by driedfruit

[CabotCove]

The problem with Iris is what I like to call the "A-team" useless female effect. When people watch these type of shows people want to see action, when the LI isn't in on the secret and isn't in an action oriented job then the action stops when she is on the screen. People tend to transfer their hatred of the action stoppage to the person that they see responsible in this case, Iris.

Guess who was part of the action in these past couple of episodes. If they continue to play their cards right Iris will be involved in the action and be part of the flash "team" from this point on IMO.  I have some hope that things will be much different from this point on and in season 2.  The writers dont seem to hate Candice or Iris, nor do they seem to  have some pet favorite they are grooming to take her place, so I really dont see what could get in the way of Iris being part of the main plot and action from now on?, now that she knows about Barry's secret life.

 

Im not saying things will be perfect for Iris West but Im just saying that the so called  "A-team useless female effect", may not apply here, .....forever. I think the relationship/s that Barry and Iris has is different from say Clark & Lana, Lana was kept in the dark for more than half the show's run, Iris knows in a season and as result she will likely play an active role. I  also think B & I relationship was made superstrong too, than what heroes/leads and their love interests normally have. Iris is interwoven in pretty much all parts of Barry's life now, it has to  be hard to make a character like that useless. JMO. 

 

Well, as a person who doesn't like both, Laurel is simply the worse written character of the two, hands down. And the actress is just REALLY bad.  In this case, you really shouldn't criticize the fandom, because their reactions make a lot of sense (and now, I see a lot of dislike for Oliver as well).

 

You have your own opinion, the previous poster has theirs. They have every right to air their views and criticize according to how they see it. Not everyone thinks that "Laurel is the worst thing ever" is the gospel, i dont think its a universal opinion or that it has to be. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Conell

[FurryFury]

I feel like this wasn't criticizing the writing but criticizing the fandom which I'm honestly sick of, especially in this forum. Not that it matters seeing as the next episode is most likely the last episode of The Flash I'll watch (except for the possible crossovers with LOT if I'll like that show).

Edited May 14, 2015 by FurryFury

[CabotCove]

I feel like this wasn't criticizing the writing but criticizing the fandom which I'm honestly sick of, especially in this forum. 

 

The show writing, fandom reactions, the media,  I would think its all part of discussing these sensitive topics IMO. These days fandom feeds back to the show and its writing. If there is racism in  fandom, it will likely reflect in the writing, especially for a show on the CW. 

 

Not that it matters seeing as the next episode is most likely the last episode of The Flash I'll watch (except for the possible crossovers with LOT if I'll like that show).

 

Too bad. I Understand though, I plan to do the the same with Arrow, Im so over The Olicity Diaries and overall terribly offensive writing. The crossovers has/will become a burden now for me. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Conell

[phoenics]

The show writing, fandom reactions, the media,  I would think its all part of discussing these sensitive topics IMO. These days fandom feeds back to the show and its writing. If there is racism in  fandom, it will likely reflect in the writing, especially for a show on the CW.

This exactly.

I wish I could ignore fandom shenanigans in general, but it's just not possible in many cases. On Sleepy Hollow we saw how a racist part of the fandom nearly got the show canceled because they just couldn't accept the premise of the show with a black female lead and sadly the (now fired) showrunner went all in with them.

Edited May 14, 2015 by phoenics

[phoenics]

I saw this amazing post on tumblr about intersectionality (race and gender w.r.t. black women) and thought it was really good. Take a gander:

http://diversehighfantasy.tumblr.com/post/128926468321/fandom-and-the-intersection-of-feminism-and-race

[Ruby25]

Since there was talk about Oliver and manwhores in general earlier, I guess this is the right place to ask this question.

 

Has Barry ever actually had sex with anyone? Or is Patty Spivot going to be his first?

 

And can he actually sleep with somebody without them knowing he's The Flash? It didn't happen with Linda, but it looked like something weird was going to happen if they'd gone through with it.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Ruby25

[Sakura12]

Linda did mention his lips vibrating. 

 

But I am also wondering if Barry has sex before becoming the Flash, they never really mentioned any previous girlfriends. 

[bettername2come]

I think he's had sex at some point because he's 26 and I don't think they've ever implied he was a virgin. Don't know if he and Linda ever actually had sex or not.

[Ruby25]

Well, they didn't say he wasn't either. And they actually have implied that he has very little experience with dating, Linda said that herself and the way he acted with her sure seemed like he was very new at this.

 

The only thing they've ever said is that he's always been too hung up on Iris to try being with anyone else.

 

So, I don't know- they didn't say it outright but I got the impression he was a virgin. The only previous girlfriend mentioned was the high school gf Becky Cooper, but I don't know if that means anything.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Ruby25

[Trini]

I saw this amazing post on tumblr about intersectionality (race and gender w.r.t. black women) and thought it was really good. Take a gander:

http://diversehighfantasy.tumblr.com/post/128926468321/fandom-and-the-intersection-of-feminism-and-race

 

I don't think the issues between White women and Black women are quite so opposite, but I do see the author's point that race does add another dimension to the issues with female characters.

[phoenics]

It's not the issues that are opposite - it's the representation. And unfortunately that does create an image for black women that actually permeates real life. Look up "why are black women single" and you'll see a lot of ugly stereotypes in the articles and in the comment sections that really do reflect how black women are portrayed in media. If you never see black women in media shown in healthy relationships with men, that can actually impact how they are treated in society - it becomes a vicious cycle.