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Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

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Colin tweeted that he's Nashville bound. Hopefully they'll be pictures! Also, being completely shallow, I hope he gets a haircut, because I didn't like his hair in that recent photo of him at a concert.

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I like his hair a bit longer than it was in the finale, but perhaps that concert length was a little too long. :)

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Perfect for the "broke-down singer" look!

 

Oh, to be 16 again and on a plane with a hot TV star.

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What's the rule on double-posting here? Because it wasn't in the forum primer. But I think it's been long enough, so....

 

Colin getting into the country vibe in Nashville already. Damn if he doesn't look all Deacon Claybourne there. I like it.

 

I read somewhere that it's a 12-day shoot. Don't know the veracity, but that sounds about right with that budget. Hell, the shoot will practically be finished before he's over his jet lag. Especially given there's bound to be some loooong shooting days with that schedule.

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He could play a Musketeer with this moustache/beard combo.

 

I'm happy the filming schedule is so short, as it won't impede his appearance on Once. And I was afraid of that!

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Wait, wait...Colin is in Nashville?!  This is what I get for not coming to this board much since TWoP disappeared. That's only 2 hrs from me.  Not that I can justify stalking, but man, so close...

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I posted that the shoot was only 12 days in the spoiler thread. I found it in a job posting for the film. They were looking for one person to do the sound and boom operation on the film. It really is low budget! I also found some postings for extras, which I posted on my tumblr.

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What's the rule on double-posting here? Because it wasn't in the forum primer. But I think it's been long enough, so....

If it advances the conversation double-posting is ok. If it's to bump the thread that's not ok. Yours is ok!

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Colin getting into the country vibe in Nashville already. Damn if he doesn't look all Deacon Claybourne there. I like it.

 

It's the look in his eyes in the first photo (where he's looking up from his tablet) that gets me.  Colin is the only man I know who can do "fuck me" eyes without even trying.  I think it's got to be his particular eye color -- he just has a way of making me feel as though he knows exactly what I'm thinking, and I'm cringing out of embarrassment that he does!

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I re-read the Peter Pan novel last week because I ran across a beautiful reprint of the original edition that someone gave me as a gift ages ago and I'd forgotten about, and it's interesting that even though our Hook is in many ways different from book Hook, a lot still made it into the character -- enough that I figure that someone on the writing staff had to have read it and not just seen the Disney movie. His relationship with Pan was actually pretty similar to our Hook's relationship with Rumple (so I guess Rumple gets to take on at least part of yet another role). Hook really hates Pan, and especially his attitude, much of the hatred goes back to the loss of his hand, and he nearly succeeds in killing Pan with poison. His blue eyes are frequently mentioned, though thank goodness they didn't do his hair the way it's described in the book. And there's his obsession with Good Form.

 

But that got me started wondering about the background of our Hook. Book Hook got his obsession with Good Form from having attended an Eton-like school (according to many a crossword puzzle, it actually was Eton, though it's not named in the book unless there were clues that went over my head, so that detail must have come up elsewhere). Where did our Hook learn about Good Form? When he's not playing pirate, he has rather proper manners. He comes across as an educated man -- his speech patterns are very formal, he uses proper grammar and is fond of big words. Some of that could have come from the training to be a naval officer, and he could also be at least partially self-educated, since he seems to have had a lot of books and he had a couple of centuries (at least) in Neverland without much else to do other than fight Pan and the Lost Boys. On the other hand, in the navy in the era they seemed to be using as a model, it took cash and/or connections to get a commission as an officer, which doesn't fit with the other detail we've heard about Hook's life, that he was abandoned as a child by a fugitive father. He and Liam might have been able to get on with the navy as ordinary sailors, but probably not officers unless something else happened.

 

It's possible that they just picked that period because the uniforms look cool and our cultural awareness of the officers of that time, from stuff like Horatio Hornblower and Master and Commander, is the biggest possible contrast to Hook the pirate, but I do know that Jane Espenson is a big Jane Austen fan, so if she had any influence, she knows something about the period. It's also possible that Hook was lying to Bae about his background, but that's seeming less likely, given what we now know of his relationship with Bae. Plus, they really like drawing parallels between Emma and Hook, and being abandoned as a kid is one of those. Perhaps he and Liam got sent off to a boarding school as charity cases when they were abandoned, and there they made the kind of connections that gave them a chance at a commission -- save the life of the right kid, and it could change your destiny. At any rate, I hope they bother to flesh out those gaps, even if it's just through Emma getting to know him better.

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Of course I would dearly love more on Hook's background, but I'm not counting on getting much more of it. Though I totally think they could delve into who his father was for a rich storyline at some point. I go against what seems to be the popular current of him being Blackbeard, though I wouldn't be averse to him being Davy Jones. They could totally have a half-season with Davy Jones/Ursula as antagonists, and that could rock.

 

Just because Killian's father was a fugitive doesn't mean they were poor or uneducated. They could have been living comfortably in supposed anonymity until they were found out. His fugitive status could have been anything from "former pirate" to "stole priceless objects from the queen" to "ran off with a princess against her parents' wishes" to even "you're the rightful heir to the realm and the usurper wants to kill you so you can't claim the throne." It's intriguing, and I want it.

 

Liam to me seemed a fairish bit older than Killian, and in my head-canon, Liam was already at sea or in the naval academy when their father abandoned Killian. So he probably had some amount of time on his own as a street urchin before reuniting with Liam, unless the captain of whatever ship they were on let Killian stay aboard as a cabin boy. He could have been adopted by some kindly rich widow and educated. (I'm assuming their mother died when Killian was very young, since she hasn't been mentioned.) So many possibilities!

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Of course I would dearly love more on Hook's background, but I'm not counting on getting much more of it. 

Oh I don't know -- I don't think we'll get any more this season, but Hook and Emma seem to be end game, and they can only throw so many spanners in their romance, so at some point they will have to give him a separate plot (or sideline him, but he is a very popular character, and there is a high-profile Peter Pan film coming out next year). Given his early years are still anyone's guess, someone or something from his past coming back to haunt him seems like one of the easier options there. He has also seemingly travelled to many other magical realms -- which most of the other characters have not -- so it is easy to tie him back to any other world they want to visit.

 

Book Hook got his obsession with Good Form from having attended an Eton-like school (according to many a crossword puzzle, it actually was Eton, though it's not named in the book unless there were clues that went over my head, so that detail must have come up elsewhere).

 

 

Huh, I didn't know anything about this. According to Wikipedia:

 

in the play: Hook's final words are "Floreat Etona", Eton's motto. Barrie confirmed this in a 1927 speech entitled "Captain Hook at Eton".

 

 

I hope we find out why Liam spoke with an Australian accent. I think it's cool that the show lets the actors use their natural accents (except Colin), but they should probably try to keep it consistent amongst family members.

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If Davy Jones Hook's father, then they can go ahead and make Calypso his mother.

 

I'd like to find out more about Killian's origin story.  I sort of always thought that Liam took him in after their father took off for whatever reason. 

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There are enough holes in Hook's backstory to give him a great story, but I don't think the writers care enough for him or for anybody that it's not Regina, Rumple and their new toy of the season (right now, Elsa), so I don't have any hope.

Edited by RadioGirl27

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There are enough holes in Hook's backstory to give him a great story, but I don't think the writers care enough for him or for anybody that it's not Regina, Rumple and their new toy of the season (right now, Elsa), so I don't have any hope.

I really hate it when you guys are right!

 

It's too bad, because as you said, he could have a pretty awesome backstory.  Hook is quite the romantic at heart, isn't he?

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in the play: Hook's final words are "Floreat Etona", Eton's motto. Barrie confirmed this in a 1927 speech entitled "Captain Hook at Eton".

That makes sense because in the novel, in his last thoughts he's back at school and being the perfect example of Good Form, so he dies happy. In a play, he'd have to say something to convey that.

 

I took a look at the recap (pause for nostalgic TWOP moment), and either the recap really sums up the story Hook told about his childhood or my brain fleshed it out a great deal. I had all these vivid mental images of a life on the go because of the fugitive father until the father finally abandoned him. But there really isn't a lot of detail there, just that they were going to be traveling and then his father vanished overnight. So they've left themselves a lot of room to play with. There's no indication of what his life was like before that or after that. I'd bet that there was at least some time in something that might have been considered foster care to give a parallel with Emma.

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Better picture here. He really does look different without the Hook beard.

 

I'm really surprised he's not scruffy for this film, too. How is a broke-down musician not scruffy and with a nice haircut??

Edited by Souris

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Thanks for the better pic! Yes, he has such a baby face without the beard. I do like his hair though, and am happy with the length. LOL

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Colin--no! haha Hope he gets the scruff back in time for OUAT. I do think his hair needs a trim though. That look he had in The Crocodile was super hot!!

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I'm quite particular to the longer, bed-head look myself. :) I've been trying to find more info about the movie, but haven't found much, except for info about Colin performing the tracks in the studio. I'm really curious about what genre the songs are, and what kind of accent Colin will have.

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I rather like the clean-shaven look, but it does make him look like an entirely different person from Hook. Hey, if Hook ever needs to go incognito, all he needs is the fake hand rather than the hook, new clothes and a shave and even Emma won't recognize him. He could walk right past all his old enemies. (Also, that pic is a total colliding worlds thing, with Jerry/Gary/Larry from Parks and Recreation together with Captain Hook!)

 

On an entirely different note, I had a bit of a duh moment when going down a mental rabbit trail involving ranks, ages, bad decisions involving piracy, etc., and I think I see why the whole crew so readily turned pirate after one stirring speech from Lt. Jones. They were kind of screwed, no matter what. Think about it: They'd failed in their mission to bring their king the plant he'd asked for, and since they'd seen what happened to Liam, they knew that the plant was actually a poison rather than a healing herb, so they knew that the king had lied and that he was planning some kind of chemical warfare. Given that they're serving a king who was planning chemical warfare and was willing to lie to his men about it (which proved fatal since they didn't know to take precautions), what are the odds that they'd have survived if they'd reported back to headquarters? They'd have probably ended up imprisoned and/or executed, or their ship would have had an unfortunate "accident." That whole crew had just become a liability. Desertion of some kind was really their only hope -- either run off and go underground elsewhere, bring info to the enemy and join them, or go pirate. As pissed-off as they were, piracy might have sounded like the best idea at the time, and it did sound like they were going to focus on ships serving their old king. It just seems that there was some mission creep along the way and they turned into ordinary pirates and thieves.

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Better picture here. He really does look different without the Hook beard.

 

I'm really surprised he's not scruffy for this film, too. How is a broke-down musician not scruffy and with a nice haircut??

As a former Detroiter, the second thing I noticed in that photo was the Faygo on the back shelf. As if that picture couldn't get cooler!

Also, I like his clean look for this movie. Perhaps they're doing one of those "looks can be deceiving" type thing where the character looks fine but is a complete mess.

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On an entirely different note, I had a bit of a duh moment when going down a mental rabbit trail involving ranks, ages, bad decisions involving piracy, etc., and I think I see why the whole crew so readily turned pirate after one stirring speech from Lt. Jones. They were kind of screwed, no matter what. Think about it: They'd failed in their mission to bring their king the plant he'd asked for, and since they'd seen what happened to Liam, they knew that the plant was actually a poison rather than a healing herb, so they knew that the king had lied and that he was planning some kind of chemical warfare. Given that they're serving a king who was planning chemical warfare and was willing to lie to his men about it (which proved fatal since they didn't know to take precautions), what are the odds that they'd have survived if they'd reported back to headquarters? They'd have probably ended up imprisoned and/or executed, or their ship would have had an unfortunate "accident." That whole crew had just become a liability. Desertion of some kind was really their only hope -- either run off and go underground elsewhere, bring info to the enemy and join them, or go pirate. As pissed-off as they were, piracy might have sounded like the best idea at the time, and it did sound like they were going to focus on ships serving their old king. It just seems that there was some mission creep along the way and they turned into ordinary pirates and thieves.

That's an interesting parallel with Snow. When she was an outlaw, she too was only focusing on carriages belonging to Regina. Now we know Snow did keep only going after Regina's carriages and Killian did not, but who knows what would have happened if she had not had someone like Red and Charming in her life?

 

I usually think Colin looks nerdy without the scruff, but I really like that picture!

Edited by Serena

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He looks like such a baby without the scruff and the guyliner! Aww.

He looks all of about 24.  This is why I've never been a fan of facial hair on men -- it tends to age them, and I prefer the youthful look on a man's face.

 

Come on, Colin -- let's see what a clean-shaven heroic Hook would be like.  Talk about a return to good form!

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I prefer the scruff. Maybe it's just what I'm used to on him, but I think it makes him hotter.

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I like him no matter what his hair (facial or otherwise) looks like.  LOL.  It's the tall, dark and handsome with piercing blue eyes combo that does me in.  ;)

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This does raise an interesting question, though: that film shoot will be, what, 10 days? That only leaves about two weeks to grow the beard back out, which is no small feat. They wouldn't want to be picking up right after they left off last season (of course, Snow would still be the more noticeably different character in that scenario).

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Two weeks is probably more than enough time for him to grow back his scruff. :) he strikes me as the kind of guy that gets a 5 o'clock shadow by 3 o'clock.

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Depends on how fast his beard grows, but I think two weeks should be fine. I have a friend who can pretty much grow the Hook-level scruff by evening. We say his superhero name is "Quick Beard." :D

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I was just coming here to post that last photo because I can't over how young he looks! And with his 5 o'clock shadow, I don't think we have to worry about Hook's scruff. :)

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I definitely prefer the scruff! But then, I'm very very partial to beards!!

And I think it'll grow in a week or so, so he'll be ready for Hook!

Last night I had a huge Colin/Hook moment... Try going to one (ore some) tumblr blog(s) entirely dedicated to him while listening to the Lord of the Rings soundtrack.... I think it'll take me a week to recover!

 

Yes, he needs to grow the scruff back so I don't feel like such a cougar.

 

ETA: Fan encounter in Nashville, complete with picture. I cannot get over how different he looks without the beard.

 

And another pic from the set.

 

Souris, I feel like a cougar, beard or not beard! And I'm not that older than him either!!

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Shanna Marie

I thought you might like this essay about the various depictions of Captain Hook and how Killian Jones  is far more similar to Barrie’s Hook than what Disney and others came up with.  It’s a great read.

 

http://www.onceuponafans.com/hook-a-return-to-romance

 

also I found this in the Disney Wikipedia: http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Captain_Hook

 

it is very fascinating, especially the character description because it almost sounds like OUAT Rumple in his penchant for finding loopholes in deals.

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That is a good essay, and I'd noticed the same paragraph in the book, particularly the bit about the melancholy blue eyes, since I've discovered that you can tell the difference between a photo of Colin in costume and a photo of Hook in character by his eyes. Hook's eyes are always so sad, even when he's smiling, while Colin's smile goes all the way to his eyes. Although a lot of the development of the character comes from the writing, there's also enough non-verbal stuff that matches perfectly to the character described in the book that I have to wonder if Colin has read the book and was influenced by that in his performance.

 

We don't get the spots of red when he's angry, but there's a similar effect in the way he can be icily, formally polite while being ruthless or the way he's chilling when he's really angry. More recently, he seems to be trying to work himself up into acting that way toward Smee, but it comes across as a lot less genuine.

 

Going back to some discussion before we got distracted by the lack of scruff:

That's an interesting parallel with Snow. When she was an outlaw, she too was only focusing on carriages belonging to Regina. Now we know Snow did keep only going after Regina's carriages and Killian did not, but who knows what would have happened if she had not had someone like Red and Charming in her life?

We have a big gap between the end of "Good Form" and the next time we see Killian in "The Crocodile," so we seem to be missing a lot of the downward spiral, since there's a big difference between a betrayed officer who doesn't like rum on his ship deciding to fight against an unjust king and becoming a regular pirate who hangs out in taverns, swills rum and takes up with married women. Choosing to fight against the king whose lies led to his brother's death doesn't necessarily imply dropping all his other standards and forgetting about Good Form, so you've got to wonder what happened, or was it just a slippery slope, easing standards bit by bit rather than making any one drastic change?

 

Speaking of rum, the "one-handed pirate with a drinking problem" line has been played as something of a joke, and I don't expect this show to seriously tackle alcoholism, but I do wonder just how much of a problem the rum really is supposed to be. That's not too big a flask for as long as they were in Neverland (unless it's a magical bottomless flask), so you'd think a true alcoholic would have been getting twitchy by the time they got home. He definitely seems to drink to ease emotional pain, but it doesn't seem to be a physical dependency. If he's happy, he doesn't seem to need it at all.

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It sort of bothers me that there's this huge gap in Hook's life.  For instance, what happened with Tinkerbell?  Was there some sort of relationship (physical?  Friendship?) and he up and left her in Neverland?  I want to know just because of the way their initial scenes were played between the actors in present day.

 

About the rum, it seemed a lot less prominent in 3B. 

 

But when they're in the tavern with the two Hooks, Present!Hook seemed to heavily hint that rum was an issue for him.  His past self used to drink himself into a stupor, so much so that he wouldn't remember what happened and then blame it on the rum.  He was way passed the whole "bon vivant" into a whole other thing.

 

So for me, Pan while he was being sarcastic was actually telling the truth.  Seems to me though that it might have been a turning point for him. 

 

And no, I doubt they'll be saying anything about alcoholism, unless we see Hook not drinking at all and him saying that he decided to stop the alcohol, but it's doubtful since he was having a beer in 3-21 and playing with his flask of rum in 3-22.

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Re: Hook and alcohol, even in 3B it was brought out as a crutch.  Alcoholic - no but definitely issue enough to be prominent.  For instance in Bleeding Through in Granny's when Emma is teasing him and he apologizes ( after being cursed) he immediately takes a big swig from the flask- enough to raise Emma's eyebrows.  Even when not drinking he likes having the flask close when he is unsure of things..like near the close of 3.22 before the kiss.  Definitely a crutch but as his life changes one he needs less and less.  Now he can have "coctails" for fun instead of drinking to get beyond his own sadness.

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It sort of bothers me that there's this huge gap in Hook's life.  For instance, what happened with Tinkerbell?  Was there some sort of relationship (physical?  Friendship?) and he up and left her in Neverland?  I want to know just because of the way their initial scenes were played between the actors in present day.

I got the impression they were friends with benefits back in Neverland, but neither considered it anything more (and it's not like they had many other options). For me, at least, the show hinted at that strongly enough that they don't need to spell it out. I'd like to see them remain friends, though -- she does for him what he does for Emma, calling him on his BS. 

 

The only time I thought the rum might have warranted a mention but didn't has been when he was looking after Henry. Especially that first time -- he offers her a swig and then a minute later says, "Hey why don't I take your son out to the docks alone all evening?" I'd have a few reservations about leaving an impressionable tween with a guy who has been drinking straight liquor all day.

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I got the impression they were friends with benefits back in Neverland, but neither considered it anything more (and it's not like they had many other options). For me, at least, the show hinted at that strongly enough that they don't need to spell it out. I'd like to see them remain friends, though -- she does for him what he does for Emma, calling him on his BS.

 

For their sake, I hope they were! 300 years is a hell of a long time with nobody for company except creepy sociopath Pan, Lost Boys, Bae, Smee and various pirates who didn't get killed in Echo Cave.

 

I would really like to see more of Tinkerbell, but I doubt we will unless "iZombie" gets cancelled quickly, which would still mean her not showing up until 4B. Even though it's filmed in Vancouver, too, her available time would be akin to Megan Ory's.

 

Once's secondary-character actors are just too popular!

Edited by Souris

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I don't know. I'm totally giving Hook a pass but when he started out as a pirate, the ships usually stocked up on beer since they hadn't really invented the idea of safe drinking water on the high seas yet. So perhaps the rum is more of a hold over like the leather coat. And to be fair, we haven't really seen him drunk much even though he carries that flask with him everywhere.

 

Of course, with modern technology and bottled water, it seems like it's more of a crutch than a necessity.

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The only time I thought the rum might have warranted a mention but didn't has been when he was looking after Henry. Especially that first time -- he offers her a swig and then a minute later says, "Hey why don't I take your son out to the docks alone all evening?" I'd have a few reservations about leaving an impressionable tween with a guy who has been drinking straight liquor all day.

 

Actually, Emma was the one who brought up the rum. I don't think he'd been drinking. He just went with her suggestion because in his mind drinking rum would be better than letting vengeance/anger consume her life. We usually see Hook revert to rum when things don't go well for him. He dove right for the bottle when Emma went up to talk to Walsh, he was clearly drunk when he was coming on to Tinkerbelle at Granny's and they showed him go heavy on the liquor when he was cursed just as he was making progress with Emma. However, you never see him do anything more than casual drinking at other times. In some ways, I think it's just habit to have the flask and drink a bit. It was pretty obvious Past!Hook drank himself into oblivion pretty much every night; Present!Hook does not have that problem.

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What I personally implied in my post was that he seems to have moved away from that.  I think it's interesting that Present!Hook made the comment about Past!Hook that he used to drink himself into complete blackouts and basically wake up in his cabin.  Even Smee made the comment about how he didn't expect the him to come back so soon from the tavern. 

 

So there's clearly some self-awareness and change when it comes to that.  He's about the only "villain" who has any type of self-awareness anyway.

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For their sake, I hope they were! 300 years is a hell of a long time with nobody for company except creepy sociopath Pan, Lost Boys, Bae, Smee and various pirates who didn't get killed in Echo Cave.

True, though she must have only have been there for the very end of that 300 years. So who knows what they were up to for several centuries. (I headcannon that Neverland is a little like cursed-Storybrooke where people don't really mature in addition to not aging, and the passing of time kind of goes unnoticed. Otherwise I just can't get my head around how they didn't go out of their minds with boredom, and how Hook could still be angry and vengeful. Or how he could have any interested in someone who was only 30 years old. I have the same problem with most vampire shows).

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I headcannon that Neverland is a little like cursed-Storybrooke where people don't really mature in addition to not aging, and the passing of time kind of goes unnoticed. Otherwise I just can't get my head around how they didn't go out of their minds with boredom, and how Hook could still be angry and vengeful. Or how he could have any interested in someone who was only 30 years old. I have the same problem with most vampire shows

The concept of Neverland is all about never growing up, so not maturing makes total sense. Pan and the Lost Boys are boys, not wise old men in young bodies. Hook doesn't at all come across like any other ancient character who looks young, like Matt Smith's Doctor on Doctor Who or most vampires. He may be a little wise/mature beyond his physical years just because of what he's experienced, but it doesn't seem like he has 300 or so years worth of maturity or experience. Ditto for Neal. Hook may have read (or even memorized) every one of those books we see in the Jolly Roger's captain's cabin, so he might have a lot of facts in his head. Otherwise, there's not much to life in Neverland other than basic survival that would provide much in the way of life experience that would apply anywhere else. I guess Hook could get by in a forest or jungle, but his people skills likely regressed. I think he's matured more since he met Emma than he did in all the time he was in Neverland.

 

As for the alcohol issue, it seems like the Killian we saw in "The Crocodile" was more like a frat-boy drinker -- hit the bar for a binge when they're in port. I don't see how he could have survived all those years in Neverland if he was actually an alcoholic with a physical dependency unless Pan could magic up barrels of rum (though that might have been how he kept Hook on a leash during that time). The problem drinking seems to have been heaviest post-Neverland, which makes some sense if he came back centuries later to find that absolutely everything he'd known was gone, and Rumple still wasn't dead and was still invincible. I would definitely say it's more of an emotional crutch than a physical need. He might have a beer when celebrating, but the rum doesn't seem to come out unless he's in some kind of pain, and he can go without it if he needs to.

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I've always thought that Pan would always twist the knife so to speak.  In that, he would taunt Hook about his failure to protect Milah constantly.  I would not be surprised if he sent him dreams about Milah's death.  I always felt Pan would have kept Hook from moving on and that the nature of Neverland would also playing into that. 

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