S05.E15: Try

[maystone]

I guess I didn't explain it well. I wasn't referring to "scenes", just the knock on the head to Rick. And I wasn't referring to how the other characters see Michonne. I was referring to how the writers use her in such instances as the knock on the head as an instant shorthand to the audience of how cool and badass she is and in turn how awesome and badass the show is without having to do any work writing anything.

<snip>

If they go on to explain Michonne's motivation in hitting Rick I'll be very surprised. 

 

 

Now see, I thought all of Michonne's previous scenes in this episode explained her motivation. Earlier, she was laying out her cop suit after contemplating over Noah's freshly laundered T-shirt. My impression was that she wasn't too eager to put on the wind breaker, as it were. I saw a hesitancy, not so much as should she or should she not wear it, but what did it mean when she did wear it. It's not just clothing, it's a symbol, as plainly stated by Deanna when she gave the cop suits to Rick and Michonne. At that point Rosita comes in, they both rush out to find Sasha. When they do find her, Sasha's actions and her obvious emotional pain throw Michonne into some flashbacks about her own PTSD - the lone "crazy woman" (her words) with the two chained undead leashed to her. I think it scared her. I think it also made her choice much easier about whether or not she was going to commit to civilization or go back outside. So she goes home, puts on the uniform, and does her job. When they show this episode again during the marathon, look at her face after she knocks Rick out. I see her taking a stand, making her choice.

[AngelaHunter]

And a gunshot would go right over the walls,

 

Yes, and considering how many gunshots have blared since CDB arrived, especially Sasha shooting apparently 24/7, I'm not surprised every zombie in a 100 mile radius is being attracted.

[JackONeill]

At the construction site, what were Abe and the men doing: Making the perimeter of ASZ larger? Does that mean there are gaps in the fence while they do that? Or were they just re-enforcing the existing fence?

 

(Seriously.  I WATCH the show.  I just can't hear it.)

[Pete Martell]

If they hadn't been trying to say " what a badass" then someone else could have done it, and that's my point about motivation: why was Michonne moved to do it over anyone else? We will probably never be told or shown. Of course, Carl and Jessie tried, but having one of them succeed in breaking up the fight would not have resulted in the iconic "wow, cool" snapshot they go for with Michonne all the time.

 

I'd say because it fits her story. Michonne is the other constable in Alexandria. Michonne has been struggling with how to be herself in Alexandria when she doesn't even know what herself is anymore. Her knocking him out was her way of trying to take control and keep some semblance of order. If Glenn had knocked him out, that would have seemed more like a "badass" moment to me, because I don't think it fit Glenn's story arc. 

 

I guess situations like this are where I don't think the characters would ever explain themselves. Michonne isn't a big talker or interested in psychoanalyzing her actions. 

I haven't come across any backlash, although I don't doubt it.

 

This is one of about three places I haven't seen heavy backlash toward her over this. I wish I were more surprised. 

 

I always disagreed with the people who said Michonne needed to be removed from Rick's story ASAP in order to preserve her as a character, but the reaction to her in this episode was my final wakeup call. I will never want her with Rick, or heavily involved in Rick's story, after his behavior over the last few episodes, and after the heavy fan reaction that praises him for waving a gun at innocent people and demonizes her for protecting him and protecting innocent people.

[Yolapukka]

 

If they hadn't been trying to say " what a badass" then someone else could have done it, and that's my point about motivation: why was Michonne moved to do it over anyone else? We will probably never be told or shown

 

 i don't believe someone else could have done it. Only the other person wearing a constable uniform was appropriate and that person is Michonne. The fact they made a point of having her wear it when she had been wearing different clothes all throughout  the episode told me all I needed to know about why Rick was dealt with in that way. Bad-ass is a hoped for bit of bycatch, but it's not what they were specifically fishing for in that scene.

[JackONeill]

I haven't been following everything that's been said about Michonne.

 

But here's my take: I don't think it had much to do with her wearing a uniform. I also don't think it had to do with her being a bad ass. I think whoever took Rick down had to come from CDB.  If anybody else -- an outsider -- had tried, it would have escalated..

 

And I don't think the person from CDB could have talked him down from his rage. I think he had to be knocked out.  I saw Glenn there and Carol. But I didn't see Abe (he'd have had the muscle, and he could have done it, and probably would have known to do it). Carol didn't want to stop it. Glenn did, but he's not the type to clobber someone from behind. (Plus, he may respect Rick too much to do it that way.)

 

I think Michonne saw what had to be done and she did it. I think a great part of her motivation is that she knew nothing good could come from letting Rick blather on like a lunatic.

[maystone]

 

I think Michonne saw what had to be done and she did it. I think a great part of her motivation is that she knew nothing good could come from letting Rick blather on like a lunatic.

 

Oh, I agree completely. And while Glenn didn't actively interfere, he was standing facing the onlookers with his hands out (while watching Rick over his shoulder) making sure that the guys weren't going to gang up on Rick. I guess he was Switzerland. Or a UN Peacekeeper.

 

And speaking of Rick, this is the third time we've seen him rage out, right? There was the time when he went nuts on Tyreese, then keeping his promise to Gareth, and now with Pete. Were there any clues before any of that went down that Rick had a bit of an anger problem? Or did the switch get flipped when he killed Shane?

[chlban]

I'd say because it fits her story. Michonne is the other constable in Alexandria. Michonne has been struggling with how to be herself in Alexandria when she doesn't even know what herself is anymore. Her knocking him out was her way of trying to take control and keep some semblance of order. If Glenn had knocked him out, that would have seemed more like a "badass" moment to me, because I don't think it fit Glenn's story arc. 

 

I guess situations like this are where I don't think the characters would ever explain themselves. Michonne isn't a big talker or interested in psychoanalyzing her actions. 

 

This is one of about three places I haven't seen heavy backlash toward her over this. I wish I were more surprised. 

 

I always disagreed with the people who said Michonne needed to be removed from Rick's story ASAP in order to preserve her as a character, but the reaction to her in this episode was my final wakeup call. I will never want her with Rick, or heavily involved in Rick's story, after his behavior over the last few episodes, and after the heavy fan reaction that praises him for waving a gun at innocent people and demonizes her for protecting him and protecting innocent people.

Really? This is the only forum I visit, so I am surprised by this. I believe you, I am just surprised. My reaction was to cement my already existing dislike for Rick. I personally think he could be punched out a few more times. For his own good, of course. Captain Crazy Pants.

[JBody]

I always disagreed with the people who said Michonne needed to be removed from Rick's story ASAP in order to preserve her as a character, but the reaction to her in this episode was my final wakeup call. I will never want her with Rick, or heavily involved in Rick's story, after his behavior over the last few episodes, and after the heavy fan reaction that praises him for waving a gun at innocent people and demonizes her for protecting him and protecting innocent people.

 

Rick apologists can suck it.

If they hadn't been trying to say " what a badass" then someone else could have done it, and that's my point about motivation: why was Michonne moved to do it over anyone else? We will probably never be told or shown. Of course, Carl and Jessie tried, but having one of them succeed in breaking up the fight would not have resulted in the iconic "wow, cool" snapshot they go for with Michonne all the time.

 

It is iconic.  It's a panel ripped straight from the comics.  

[mandolin]

And speaking of Rick, this is the third time we've seen him rage out, right? There was the time when he went nuts on Tyreese, then keeping his promise to Gareth, and now with Pete. Were there any clues before any of that went down that Rick had a bit of an anger problem? Or did the switch get flipped when he killed Shane?

I don't think Rick has an "anger issue." I think that would trivialize all he's been through. In fact, his first convo with Shane in the cruiser, he admits he doesn't even talk to Lori when angry; that she wants him to yell or "speak." I don't always think Rick is firing on all cylinders, but I'd love for once to see his family take care of him. Even Coral mostly yelled at him when he was so broken from the Gov fight. Dude just can't catch a break. I definitely think any anger he has is justified, though he does wander into Crazy Town quite a bit. (tm Glenn) This is how he's handling the ZA, for better or worse.

Eta: after seeing Jbody's post, I probably identify as a Rick apologist (ya think?), but I have no qualms about what Michonne did. I love her too!

Edited March 25, 2015 by mandolin

[AngelaHunter]

Carol didn't want to stop it.

 

No, she definitely didn't. She's the catalyst who lit the match. She has her own agenda and I really don't think it has anything to do with Jessie or Cookie Boy.

[JBody]

I don't think Rick has an "anger issue." I think that would trivialize all he's been through. In fact, his first convo with Shane in the cruiser, he admits he doesn't even talk to Lori when angry; that she wants him to yell or "speak." I don't always think Rick is firing in all cylinders, but I'd love for once to see his family take care of him. Even Coral mostly yelled at him when he was so broken from the Gov fight. Dude just can't catch a break. I definitely think any anger he has is justified, though he does wander into Crazy Town quite a bit. (tm Glenn) This is how he's handling the ZA, for better or worse.

Eta: after seeing Jbody's post, I probably identify as a Rick apologist (ya think?), but I have no qualms about what Michonne did. I love her too!

Heheh not you! Hey, I've been a Rick fan since day one but right now all I can think is Herschel would've kicked Rick's ass clear across the ASZ by now (even with his one leg).

[RedheadZombie]

Novel thought here:

What - if anything - could FPP do to redeem himself at this point?

 

Anything's possible.  I thought there was no going back when Merle handed Maggie over to be nearly raped, and then released a walker on a tied up Glenn.  But when he released Michonne and sacrificed himself to improve Daryl's odds of living, it was all forgotten.  The difference may be that Michael Rooker had the ability to be charming even when he was an asshole, and he had chemistry with every actor on the show.  He also showed vulnerability with his brother - a much loved character. Daryl loved Merle and we loved Daryl.  FPP does not have a close connection to any character.  I realize the actor has a good reputation, but he leaves me cold - completely.  And I'm someone who loves Tyreese.  This guy just completely gets on my nerves and I don't buy his tears, his regret, or his righteousness.  He's completely unconvincing in the role, and I would be impressed if it turned out that he wasn't a priest at all, and was just using the uniform to manipulate.  Now THAT would be interesting.

 

Dying by deliberately sacrificing himself to save someone else would perhaps redeem him.  But it wouldn't make him a compelling character, in my eyes, and I doubt it would make me care for him.  I've liked every villain on this show more than him.  His character is a complete fail, IMO.

[kj4ever]

If they hadn't been trying to say " what a badass" then someone else could have done it, and that's my point about motivation: why was Michonne moved to do it over anyone else? We will probably never be told or shown. Of course, Carl and Jessie tried, but having one of them succeed in breaking up the fight would not have resulted in the iconic "wow, cool" snapshot they go for with Michonne all the time.

I haven't come across any backlash, although I don't doubt it. I've seen hundreds of tweets saying she did it "because #Richonne", and "because she was taking care of her man". I think any Michonne backlash for "not knowing her place" would come from hardcore racists who are gonna have awful knee-jerk responses to everything she does. The media and social media response to Michonne from day one has been positive. I just want to see her portrayed with more dimensions instead of always seeing "Go, Michonne, you're the one that takes care of business! What a badass!" And I think we get glimpses of that, but I get frustrated when Michonne is used as a one-dimensional device by the writers rather than a fully-realized character.

From what I've seen and heard Michonne gets the least amount of backlash from everyone on the show because she is such a favorite. Hell I went to a Walking Dead themed Halloween party and the invite said to come as your favorite TWD Character.  Every man there was Michonne.  Every. Single. One.

 

I get what you are saying about them boxing her in the bad ass stereotype.  They were doing the same thing with Daryl and then they let some of his story show.  I wish they'd let Michonne have more dimension then just a couple minutes here and a couple minutes there.

[Samx]

I'd say because it fits her story. Michonne is the other constable in Alexandria. Michonne has been struggling with how to be herself in Alexandria when she doesn't even know what herself is anymore. Her knocking him out was her way of trying to take control and keep some semblance of order. If Glenn had knocked him out, that would have seemed more like a "badass" moment to me, because I don't think it fit Glenn's story arc. 

 

This is one of about three places I haven't seen heavy backlash toward her over this. I wish I were more surprised. 

 

Agreed Pete Martell. Also, during these back 8 eps, Michonne has been the other big Decision Maker for CDB. Now there is a clear "divide" in what Rick and Michonne want and see for CDB's future and Michonne having to take such drastic action reinforces that. Of course, I don't think it will be Team Michonne v. Team Rick - I think Team CDB will always be Team CDB but they just need to pull it together and get Rick back on track. I did the Story Sync on AMC's website and so I know that 

Michonne is the one to knock Rick out in the comics

(not sure if that's really even a spoiler but liberal use!) - I just think that in any event, Michonne was the right choice story wise. Daryl would've been a close second story-wise but he wasn't there. 

 

I "live tweet" during TWD so I saw a lot of negative Michonne reaction but I also saw the same amount of Michonne support. I like to think that the negative reactions were from people who just watch the show on a baseline level, have their gut reactions to the scene, and probably don't think about it much after (or delve into the show as deeply as we do :)). Admittedly, at first even I was like "Michonne omg! wtf!" but then I was like "Wait, that needed to be done."

[BrokenRemote]

I'd say because it fits her story. Michonne is the other constable in Alexandria. Michonne has been struggling with how to be herself in Alexandria when she doesn't even know what herself is anymore. Her knocking him out was her way of trying to take control and keep some semblance of order. If Glenn had knocked him out, that would have seemed more like a "badass" moment to me, because I don't think it fit Glenn's story arc.

I guess situations like this are where I don't think the characters would ever explain themselves. Michonne isn't a big talker or interested in psychoanalyzing her actions.

This is one of about three places I haven't seen heavy backlash toward her over this. I wish I were more surprised.

I always disagreed with the people who said Michonne needed to be removed from Rick's story ASAP in order to preserve her as a character, but the reaction to her in this episode was my final wakeup call. I will never want her with Rick, or heavily involved in Rick's story, after his behavior over the last few episodes, and after the heavy fan reaction that praises him for waving a gun at innocent people and demonizes her for protecting him and protecting innocent people.

I guess if I hadn't felt Michonne had been used too much in the past as an easy way to add "cool" to a scene it wouldn't have annoyed me so much this time. From her introduction I felt the writers often made choices to sacrifice story for "badass moments" with Michonne, so this reads like another one for me. And I feel like the reactions I'm seeing back that up, because every time I get annoyed that Michonne is displayed like a comic book panel of awesomeness instead of getting a line or a scene I log onto social media and see a thousand reactions of "that moment was so badass and awesome!"

My question is why does Michonne always have to be the one to "take care of business"? Why do she (and Darryl) get these little "isn't this show cool?" moments( see: low iconic 10-second scene of Darryl leaving Alexandria on his supercool new bike)? The answer to me is because they're fan favorites, and those moments equal an easy win for the writers.

So if this episode had been an isolated incident I probably wouldn't have seen it that way. But it's part of a pattern to me, of something that takes me out of the moment on this show. So I question the choice of Michonne being the one who was able to stop Rick, because I can read the writers saying "how do we end this scene? Well, Darryl's not here--I know, Michonne step in and knocks Rick out! I can just hear everyone in America yelling 'You go, Michonne! So fucking badass!' ".

It feels contrived with her because they've gone to that well again and again. I would argue Morgan's little end scenes are the exact same contrivance but we see them less (so far).

[BrokenRemote]

Agreed Pete Martell. Also, during these back 8 eps, Michonne has been the other big Decision Maker for CDB. Now there is a clear "divide" in what Rick and Michonne want and see for CDB's future and Michonne having to take such drastic action reinforces that. Of course, I don't think it will be Team Michonne v. Team Rick - I think Team CDB will always be Team CDB but they just need to pull it together and get Rick back on track. I did the Story Sync on AMC's website and so I know that

Michonne is the one to knock Rick out in the comics

(not sure if that's really even a spoiler but liberal use!) - I just think that in any event, Michonne was the right choice story wise. Daryl would've been a close second story-wise but he wasn't there.

I "live tweet" during TWD so I saw a lot of negative Michonne reaction but I also saw the same amount of Michonne support. I like to think that the negative reactions were from people who just watch the show on a baseline level, have their gut reactions to the scene, and probably don't think about it much after (or delve into the show as deeply as we do :)). Admittedly, at first even I was like "Michonne omg! wtf!" but then I was like "Wait, that needed to be done."

People keep saying Michonne was the other primary decision maker up to Alexandria, and I just don't see it. Yes, she made a couple suggestions. And Tyrese suggested they go in soft to Grady. Darryl agreed. Glenn suggested a group check out Aaron's story. Abe suggested a small group go to DC. It's been Rick, with the entire group making suggestions and Rick approving or not. Several of them weighed in on following Aaron--Yes, Michonne was pretty adamant, but Darryl said the barn smelled so he was in, others made their feeling known. It's never been the dynamic duo of Rick and Michonne at the top, and I'm always so puzzled when I see that.

[BrokenRemote]

At the construction site, what were Abe and the men doing: Making the perimeter of ASZ larger? Does that mean there are gaps in the fence while they do that? Or were they just re-enforcing the existing fence?

(Seriously. I WATCH the show. I just can't hear it.)

I have to have closed captioning on, and often the bright turned way up on my TV. I'd think I was prematurely aging and losing my sight and hearing except it's only this show! I've been glad for Alexandria if only for how well-lit the place is.

ETA: sorry for 3 posts in a row. I'm using my phone and you can't multi-quote on the mobile site. Usually, if nobody has posted in between, it adds my new post to the last post, making one multi-quoted post, but it didn't today for some reason.

Edited March 25, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Samx]

People keep saying Michonne was the other primary decision maker up to Alexandria, and I just don't see it. Yes, she made a couple suggestions. And Tyrese suggested they go in soft to Grady. Darryl agreed. Glenn suggested a group check out Aaron's story. Abe suggested a small group go to DC. It's been Rick, with the entire group making suggestions and Rick approving or not. Several of them weighed in on following Aaron--Yes, Michonne was pretty adamant, but Darryl said the barn smelled so he was in, others made their feeling known. It's never been the dynamic duo of Rick and Michonne at the top, and I'm always so puzzled when I see that.

 

Well, that's why I said for the back 8 eps - she didn't have much to do for the first half of the season, so I agree with you on those other examples - but it just felt to me that Michonne wasn't going to take no for an answer about Alexandria and she was the driving force behind that decision (which Rick gave in to pretty quickly). She's not the Decision Maker Supreme (because this is a Ricktatorship, after all) but her determination to make ASZ happen puts her at the forefront when I think about how we got here. Also, I think her decisive nature is what puts her in that category for a lot of people, but of course YMMV. 

[kj4ever]

I have to have closed captioning on, and often the bright turned way up on my TV. I'd think I was prematurely aging and losing my sight and hearing except it's only this show! I've been glad for Alexandria if only for how well-lit the place is.

ETA: sorry for 3 posts in a row. I'm using my phone and you can't multi-quote on the mobile site. Usually, if nobody has posted in between, it adds my new post to the last post, making one multi-quoted post, but it didn't today for some reason.

Holy crap do you know what Rick said in the preview when Glen asks "Did you want this?" and Rick goes "No, garble garble garble?"

[Pete Martell]

Anything's possible.  I thought there was no going back when Merle handed Maggie over to be nearly raped, and then released a walker on a tied up Glenn.  But when he released Michonne and sacrificed himself to improve Daryl's odds of living, it was all forgotten.  The difference may be that Michael Rooker had the ability to be charming even when he was an asshole, and he had chemistry with every actor on the show.  He also showed vulnerability with his brother - a much loved character. Daryl loved Merle and we loved Daryl.  FPP does not have a close connection to any character.  I realize the actor has a good reputation, but he leaves me cold - completely.  And I'm someone who loves Tyreese.  This guy just completely gets on my nerves and I don't buy his tears, his regret, or his righteousness.  He's completely unconvincing in the role, and I would be impressed if it turned out that he wasn't a priest at all, and was just using the uniform to manipulate.  Now THAT would be interesting.

 

It was easy for people to enjoy Merle, because he was "funny." He was also high camp on a very self-serious show - what can anyone remember from those godawful rooftop scenes but Michael Rooker having a ball? Even if many of his "jokes" in his appearances were racist and sexist, Rooker was giving his all, and in terms of the average viewer, there is nothing more beloved among many TV viewers than a crusty middle-aged white guy who often says and does disgusting things, but sometimes does something nice so we remember he isn't all bad. And a lot of his actions were also whitewashed with many because they said he must have been abused like Daryl so it wasn't his fault. If we loved Daryl (even if some of us never did...), then we needed to learn to love Merle too. Killing him off was the bravest thing TWD ever did, because I think if he'd stayed he would have become just as much of a woobie as his younger brother.

 

I think Seth Gilliam is a good actor, but there's nothing an actor can do with Gabriel. He cowers. He runs. He has hissy fits. He has myriad crises of faith that never go anywhere. He has no relationships. He has little to no POV. He's a framing device in the narrative of whether the group is "good" or "bad."

 

I think they just had that scene with Deanna because they were using him to symbolize the growing darkness of the group. I think the idea was that he was supposed to make us question where Rick and Carol were going. The fact that his actions weren't even picked up on this week, and Deanna was not shown making any of her decisions this week based on his warning, makes me feel even more sure that it was just supposed to be a symbolic moment, not something designed to upset us.

 

I doubt they even had any idea many fans would be disgusted, because TPTB don't see Gabriel as a character in the first place.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Pete Martell]

I guess if I hadn't felt Michonne had been used too much in the past as an easy way to add "cool" to a scene it wouldn't have annoyed me so much this time. From her introduction I felt the writers often made choices to sacrifice story for "badass moments" with Michonne, so this reads like another one for me. And I feel like the reactions I'm seeing back that up, because every time I get annoyed that Michonne is displayed like a comic book panel of awesomeness instead of getting a line or a scene I log onto social media and see a thousand reactions of "that moment was so badass and awesome!"

My question is why does Michonne always have to be the one to "take care of business"? Why do she (and Darryl) get these little "isn't this show cool?" moments( see: low iconic 10-second scene of Darryl leaving Alexandria on his supercool new bike)? The answer to me is because they're fan favorites, and those moments equal an easy win for the writers.

 

I guess I haven't seen a lot of these moments for Michonne in more recent episodes. I feel like they've been subverted - when she got her katana back, she was uneasy, instead of happy. When she was in the woods, she used a gun, and this was treated as matter-of-fact, not badass. I think characters like Glenn (knocking Aiden out), Maggie (holding Abraham at gunpoint), Rick (knocking Aaron out) have had more of these types of moments this past season. So that's why the knockout with Rick didn't feel the way to me that it did to you.

[JustLilOlMe]

I certainly got the impression that Michonne was behaving as law enforcement and to protect the rest of the group from any further damage from Rick going off the reservation with his ranting and raving. I didn't get she was being a bad-ass but being professional.  I don't really think any of the group want to get exiled, though they do want the rest of ASZ folks to wake up to the realities of the ZA.  Not sure how they have managed to escape any of the horrors, as I cannot believe such a large metro area seriously got so fully evacuated.  Where did they relocate the millions that lived in that area is my question.

[NoWillToResist]

I've seen other people say that the wall keeps the town's noise quieted.  I'm not doubting it may have been said, but I don't remember hearing it. Then again, too many Grand Funk Railroad concerts have pretty much killed my hearing. (What'd you say, you young whipper-snapper?!?)

 

But even if it was said, who'd believe it?  I've looked at those walls. I see no sound dampening qualities. Sure, it would quiet the sound a little, but not totally. And a gunshot would go right over the walls, as would, I think, loud voices of say, two idiots in a fist-fight in the middle of the street after breaking a glass window.  Not real stealthy.

 

Anyone want to tell me where I err?

 

IIRC, Aaron told CDB that the walls were tall and thick and that no sound carried outside (therefore, the community was safe because the walkers could neither see nor hear humans). Which I called immediate bullshit upon when CDB rolled up and fucking heard kids laughing. :)

Edited March 25, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[AngelaHunter]

Seriously. I WATCH the show. I just can't hear it.)

 

Thank you. I sometimes miss entire exchanges and I'm not sure why. Are they mumbling, is the sound quality lousy or am I going deaf?

[queenanne]

At the construction site, what were Abe and the men doing: Making the perimeter of ASZ larger? Does that mean there are gaps in the fence while they do that? Or were they just re-enforcing the existing fence?

 

(Seriously.  I WATCH the show.  I just can't hear it.)

 

Heh, I have closed captioning on, because the steam heat HISSES in the winter so loud it's shocked the grocery delivery man, and the air conditioner rattles in the summer.  It doesn't always help.

 

 i don't believe someone else could have done it. Only the other person wearing a constable uniform was appropriate and that person is Michonne. The fact they made a point of having her wear it when she had been wearing different clothes all throughout  the episode told me all I needed to know about why Rick was dealt with in that way. Bad-ass is a hoped for bit of bycatch, but it's not what they were specifically fishing for in that scene.

 

I agree, who else should do it but the person in cop uniform?  It may even, dare I say, result in a through line where Deanna puts Michonne over Rick.

 

I doubt they even had any idea many fans would be disgusted, because TPTB don't see Gabriel as a character in the first place.

 

Is that comics or similar-based reference; or surmise?  Just wondering, because I'm none too clear in my mind what specific purpose he serves as plot device either. ;)

[Pete Martell]

I don't really know all that much about his comics story, other than what we've already seen onscreen. I was talking about his role here. I think they've done a poor job making him feel like an actual character. They've had this problem more than once when they try to make symbols (Tyreese, Beth to a degree, etc.).

Edited March 25, 2015 by Pete Martell

[maystone]

 

I don't think Rick has an "anger issue." I think that would trivialize all he's been through. - mandolin

 

I didn't mean to trivialize what Rick has gone through; he's one of my favorite characters. It was a joke that made a bad landing :) 

[Nashville]

I wonder if they lost any of the dumber ASZhats to the often fatal practice of taking helium hits directly from the tank?

Personally, I can't think of a more humiliating death than getting munched by some Mickey Mouse-sounding motherwalker.

[mandolin]

I'd love to hear helium infused walker groans.

Get on that, Nicotero.

[What Fresh Hell]

No, she definitely didn't. She's the catalyst who lit the match. She has her own agenda and I really don't think it has anything to do with Jessie or Cookie Boy.

If she has her own agenda, I'm doubting it ended with Rick waving a gun around and acting like a loon. Rick has his own agenda, too, and his outrageous reaction is on him and him alone.

[TexasChic]

Holy crap do you know what Rick said in the preview when Glen asks "Did you want this?" and Rick goes "No, garble garble garble?"

I believe he said, "No, I hit my limit."

Edited March 26, 2015 by TexasChic

[AngelaHunter]

Rick has his own agenda, too, and his outrageous reaction is on him and him alone.

 

Of course his actions are on him, but Carol knows how hair trigger and unstable he is and went running to him to do something when she had no real proof of anything except some stories from a kid and children aren't always the most reliable witnesses. I don't recall ever seeing her even once talk to Jessie (did she?) and she could have done that, could have guided her or helped her on her own. Not only is Rick unstable but she knows he's hot for Jessie, and his reaction was just what she knew it would be.  Now she has the power and the means to make men like Ed suffer and die and she's using it.

 

Maybe she has another motive but that's how I saw it. Could be wrong - wouldn't be the first time.

 

 

[JasonCC]

I saw it more as Carol stressing because Rick's explosion was blowing the lid clean off their assimilate-and-dominate plan.

 

YES! I think many of the CDB characters--but certainly Michonne & Carol--think that they can ingratiate and ultimately kind of take the reigns of the gated community. It's too good to pass up, THEY don't know FPP has poisoned the well, and Rick is just acting too damn crazy and risking screwing it up for all of them. Plus, I'm not convinced Carol thought Rick was going to go berserk right away about Mr Abusive MD. SHE was playing a long game by lying, saying she was more of a "dorm mother" to the group, and keeping guards down. I think she thought Rick (like Michonne) was capable of the same thing.

 

Rick went all blathering idiot, trying to pull the Ricktator move when he wasn't mentally capable. Michonne and Carol (Glen, Maggie?) I don't think had a blatant or clear plan to depose Deana per se, but were willing to try to make it work from the inside....perhaps eventually gain leadership through valuable strength and deeds, trust, and a little manipulation. 

 

Michonne saved Rick. If they'd allow him to rant on like a crazy man he and the others would have been exiled and they would probably have kept only FPP, Judith and maybe Carl. Not that Rick would have allowed that to happen within an inch of his life, but Michonne knew that's where it would go.

[Anela]

I'd love to hear helium infused walker groans.

Get on that, Nicotero.

I'm picturing Rick doing that move with his head when he's getting ready to deal with someone, and then talking in a squeaky voice. hehe.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Anela

[What Fresh Hell]

Of course his actions are on him, but Carol knows how hair trigger and unstable he is and went running to him to do something when she had no real proof of anything except some stories from a kid and children aren't always the most reliable witnesses. I don't recall ever seeing her even once talk to Jessie (did she?) and she could have done that, could have guided her or helped her on her own. Not only is Rick unstable but she knows he's hot for Jessie, and his reaction was just what she knew it would be.  Now she has the power and the means to make men like Ed suffer and die and she's using it.

Well, I'll disagree that Carol knew what she said would drive Rick to go insane and roll around bloodied in the streets ranting like a loon and randomly pointing his gun at people. No, I don't think Carol could have predicted that. I'm sure if she had an agenda, it didn't involve blatant stupidity. I also don't believe she was hellbent on Rick killing Pete, she just knew that would be the eventual outcome. Rick and Carol have been pretty much partnered up with their own agenda since arriving, her telling him what she believed to be happening with Jessie was something that needed to be communicated, IMO.

[Raven1707]

Of course she wouldn't, she'd show up with random scrap materials and build us an owl sculpture.

 

Or, if she dies, and Rick has a Tyrese style hallucination, she can show up giving Herschell a haircut...

 

I'd almost be okay with another of Rick's hallucinations, if only to see Hershel again.

 

It would be nice, but I think the writers tend to be much more straightforward than that.  Every time we think they're getting clever - the tea that the governor makes everybody drink is drugged - we find out that we're more clever than the writers.

 

Hmm, not sure about that...drugging someone's drink has been seriously overused as a plot device. And if memory serves, the Governor didn't actually make anyone drink Milton's tea...it was more that he liked drinking the tea.

 

 

 

It was mentioned posts and posts ago that the CGI folks missed putting in a section of wall when Sasha is shown shooting the walkers during Rick's/Pete's fight. I just rewatched and the wall is there; it just curves at that point.

 

Also, there is an actual wall at the film site. :)

 

I do wonder if that corner/curve might be a weak spot though.

 

I finished transcribing the dialogue from "Try" about an hour ago and made a point of freeze-framing the wall so I could check it out with a magnifying glass -- which is a totally normal thing to do -- and you're right...the wall angles inward. It looks pretty sturdy to me.

 

 

I've seen other people say that the wall keeps the town's noise quieted.  I'm not doubting it may have been said, but I don't remember hearing it. Then again, too many Grand Funk Railroad concerts have pretty much killed my hearing. (What'd you say, you young whipper-snapper?!?)

 

But even if it was said, who'd believe it?  I've looked at those walls. I see no sound dampening qualities. Sure, it would quiet the sound a little, but not totally. And a gunshot would go right over the walls, as would, I think, loud voices of say, two idiots in a fist-fight in the middle of the street after breaking a glass window.  Not real stealthy.

 

Anyone want to tell me where I err?

 

I absolutely think any number of sounds would easily carry beyond the wall, but in point of fact, once the fight reached the street, neither Rick nor Pete said a word until the very end when Rick says: "You touch them again and I’ll kill you."

 

But yeah, Aaron over-sold those walls.

 

People keep saying Michonne was the other primary decision maker up to Alexandria, and I just don't see it. Yes, she made a couple suggestions. And Tyrese suggested they go in soft to Grady. Darryl agreed. Glenn suggested a group check out Aaron's story. Abe suggested a small group go to DC. It's been Rick, with the entire group making suggestions and Rick approving or not. Several of them weighed in on following Aaron--Yes, Michonne was pretty adamant, but Darryl said the barn smelled so he was in, others made their feeling known. It's never been the dynamic duo of Rick and Michonne at the top, and I'm always so puzzled when I see that.

 

Michonne: I’ll check out the cars.

Rick: There aren’t any cars.

Michonne: There’s only one way to find out.

Rick: We don’t need to find out.

Michonne: We do. You know what you know. And you’re sure of it, but I’m not.

Maggie: Me neither.

Rick: Your way is dangerous, mine isn’t.

Michonne: Passing up some place where we can live? Where Judith can live? That’s pretty dangerous.

We need to find out what this is. We can handle ourselves. So that’s what we’re going to do.

Glenn: Then I will too. I’ll go.

 

Thank you. I sometimes miss entire exchanges and I'm not sure why. Are they mumbling, is the sound quality lousy or am I going deaf?

 

They do a LOT of whispering on this show.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Raven1707

[RedheadZombie]

Thank you. I sometimes miss entire exchanges and I'm not sure why. Are they mumbling, is the sound quality lousy or am I going deaf?

 

With the frequent poorly lit scenes and the whisper/mumbling, I have to watch in the dark with the CC on.  It helps.

[Anela]

I wear wireless headphones. It usually helps with the mumbling.

[tennisgurl]

When I wear headphones watching this show, it can be kind of complicated. Half the time, everyone is whispering, and I have to turn it up. The other half of the time, its super loud and filled with guns and screaming and chewing, and I have to turn it down or my ear drums explode. 

[GreyBunny]

I'm always shocked when Norman gives interviews because his normal voice is clear as a bell.

[Rosiejuliemom]

I'd almost be okay with another of Rick's hallucinations, if only to see Hershel again.

 

 

Seeing Hershel would be great. I'd be more than happy if we saw Hershel and if Rick got to kill Shane again. Although, if Ghost Lori shows up again, I'll be pissed.

[nodorothyparker]

I love the recurring notion that what's going on with Rick must be some woman's fault, whether it be Jessie for apparently inhabiting the same general space and being pretty, Carol for relaying information while projecting her own issues all over the place, or Michonne for not blindly supporting Rick while he was behaving like a raving loon and potentially endangering them all.  It couldn't be that Rick has any agency in making his own poor decisions or that he picked this particular day to come unraveled again.

[BrokenRemote]

I'd almost be okay with another of Rick's hallucinations, if only to see Hershel again.

 

 

Hmm, not sure about that...drugging someone's drink has been seriously overused as a plot twist. And if memory serves, the Governor didn't actually make anyone drink Milton's tea...it was more that he liked drinking the tea.

 

 

 

 

I finished transcribing the dialogue from "Try" about an hour ago and made a point of freeze-framing the wall so I could check it out with a magnifying glass -- which is a totally normal thing to do -- and you're right...the wall angles inward. It looks pretty sturdy to me.

 

 

 

I absolutely think any number of sounds would easily carry beyond the wall, but in point of fact, once the fight reached the street, neither Rick nor Pete said a word until the very end when Rick says: "You touch them again and I’ll kill you."

 

But yeah, Aaron over-sold those walls.

 

 

Michonne: I’ll check out the cars.

Rick: There aren’t any cars.

Michonne: There’s only one way to find out.

Rick: We don’t need to find out.

Michonne: We do. You know what you know. And you’re sure of it, but I’m not.

Maggie: Me neither.

Rick: Your way is dangerous, mine isn’t.

Michonne: Passing up some place where we can live? Where Judith can live? That’s pretty dangerous.

We need to find out what this is. We can handle ourselves. So that’s what we’re going to do.

Glenn: Then I will too. I’ll go.

 

 

They do a LOT of whispering on this show.

 

OK, I was wrong on that one.  But my point is even in the back half  of this season, everyone has been giving input (except for Carol).  A lot of people seem to see Michonne as Rick's second, as the only person besides him that makes decisions, and I disagree with that.

 

I do agree that Michonne was really pushing for a home, and then for Alexandria especially.  She wasn't taking no for an answer.  But I don't think she got her way because she's Ricks right-hand-gal or anything like that.  She got her way because she wasn't the only one who felt the way she did and others backed her.

[Anela]

When I wear headphones watching this show, it can be kind of complicated. Half the time, everyone is whispering, and I have to turn it up. The other half of the time, its super loud and filled with guns and screaming and chewing, and I have to turn it down or my ear drums explode. 

I know - same here. I keep my thumb on the volume button on the right side. I've just grown used to them.

[paigow]

IIRC, Aaron told CDB that the walls were tall and thick and that no sound carried outside (therefore, the community was safe because the walkers could neither see nor hear humans). Which I called immediate bullshit upon when CDB rolled up and fucking heard kids laughing. :)

Those walls are super thick...Rick can hear a walker bumping into it...The gate needs WD-40..Douchebag van regularly departing...RV of recruitment...absolutely nothing to attract zombies.

[JustLilOlMe]

Yeah, I've always had to turn the volume way up for this show, but then I have to leave the room for the commercials because it's too loud.  It's a way to get some exercise anyways.  Rick can have a real hoarse raspy voice and Norman can sort of mumble at times.  The rest I do okay with usually.  I did wonder about the girl earlier running around as if she was just coming from or going to a birthday party with what looked like a gift and the balloon, later the balloon floats by during the brawl in the street.  Does the balloon bring on the unfair wolves or a herd of walkers?   What is that wayward balloon with the magical apocalypse helium suppose to signal?

[kj4ever]

I am just glad to know that other people can't hear the show and it isn't because I'm getting old...lol  Maggie can mumble with the best of 'em too.

[Dodginblue]

I love the recurring notion that what's going on with Rick must be some woman's fault, whether it be Jessie for apparently inhabiting the same general space and being pretty, Carol for relaying information while projecting her own issues all over the place, or Michonne for not blindly supporting Rick while he was behaving like a raving loon and potentially endangering them all.  It couldn't be that Rick has any agency in making his own poor decisions or that he picked this particular day to come unraveled again.

 

I haven't really thought of it as whatever's happening with Rick being some woman's fault.   Rick is the main character, or at least the first among equals, and a lot of the story revolves around him and how other characters interact with him.  Other than at the very beginning of the series, Rick's never been the lone ranger. There's always some other character in the mix, even if it's just him and Carl after the prison fell.   And the story gets driven forward by what happens with Rick.  People complain when an episode focuses on other characters, especially newer ones like Abraham or when it spent time on Beth at the hospital.  

 

I don't know why anyone would think Michonne is supposed to be an unwavering Rick supporter.  There really hasn't been anything about her character development that would make that credible.  Of everyone that's in this group, Michonne seems to me to be the one that's there completely by her own choice.  She's not related to anybody, she doesn't have a love interest there, she wasn't rescued by someone already in the group.  I thought when she thumped him she wasn't trying to save him, it was way too late for that because he'd already ranted enough to convince anyone within earshot that he was a total looney tunes.  I thought she did it because she was pissed off that he was unraveling like that.  But then she's had experience with the men in her life proving to be a disappointment.

[AndySmith]

I'm picturing Rick doing that move with his head when he's getting ready to deal with someone, and then talking in a squeaky voice

 

Imagine Rick's "Coorrrraallll" on helium?

 

Rick's/AL's pronunciation of Carl is this show's version of Lana Lang whisper-talking "Clark"...

Edited March 26, 2015 by AndySmith