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S02.E18: Reversal of Fortune

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NOTE: Reign airs on Wednesdays in Canada, meaning that the episodes are very often viewed a day before they have aired in the US. Therefore please be aware that this thread will almost definitely have spoilers for those who wish to wait until Thursday night to view the new episode.

 

Summary to come.

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCpll6RFmFU

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Well.. that was interesting. Poor Clarissa. The Mary/Condé stuff has accomplished the impossible and I now like Francis. Seriously are we supposed to like either of them? She is a selfish cow and he's a bad tempered brat. Guess I'm shipping Lola and Francis now that Narcisse has moved on. Loved the Bash stuff and that he's keeping what he did to himself.

Edited by brisbydog
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serious question...because I can't believe what I just watched..did Conde's magical penis heal Mary of her rape? Is that really the s/l they are telling?

 

Isn't this show ran by a woman? I can't believe a woman would ever come up with this? I am in complete disbelief at just how offensive this s/l has turned out to be.

 

At least Francis grew some balls. I was hoping he would come to and turn into Henry though.

 

Conde and Mary are all of 12 years old.

Edited by dirtypop90
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Do people actually like Condé? He is so utterly without appeal. And now he looks dangerous. I guess they are true to real life Mary in this regard. She sure knew how to pick them.

Laughable that they would assert that he "turned down" being King of England for Mary. Like it was a done deal. Elizabeth would have sent him back. Hope they cast Robert Dudley and he's actually interesting

Um. .is my Reign Boyfriend Narcisse in the dungeon or was that order overturned?

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Loved the song that played while Claude was dancing on the table. I don't know who they want from her she changes fiancees weekly. 

 

Bash really saved the day and Francis's life. He's not even telling anyone either, Catherine and Francis should be bowing at his feet, I hope at least Catherine finds out and has to be grateful to Bash forever. 

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Loved the song that played while Claude was dancing on the table. I don't know who they want from her she changes fiancees weekly. 

 

Bash really saved the day and Francis's life. He's not even telling anyone either, Catherine and Francis should be bowing at his feet, I hope at least Catherine finds out and has to be grateful to Bash forever. 

 

 

Except, it is in bash's interest that francis stays alive. He is the only reason bash is allowed at court after henry's death. Bash has repeatedly stated he is at francis's mercy. I have no doubt if he would've croaked, catherine would have kicked bash out of court, as she would have been regent for charles.

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Except, he wasn't thinking of himself or his standing in court at all, just his brother's sick and trying to save his life. He was doing what he had to, even if he had to live with himself after what he did by taking a guess based on magic prophecy to save his brother's life. 

 

Bash has turned down titles tried to be given to him before, he'd survive by not living in court. He's barely there as is and his only loyalty is to his brother. Kenna wouldn't survive without court/titles/throne, not Bash. 

Edited by Artsda

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Catherine could literally take Bash's head though, not just the titles and lands francis gave him. Plus, we know there are others still upset that Bash reached for francis's throne and want to off him, which has been mentioned in season 2. I don't think Bash would be safe in france if francis died. he would be seen as a threat due to charles's young age and the fact that he reached for the crown before. If Catherine didn't off him, someone else would.

 

random edit: sean teale, who plays conde, is getting worse. He was just awful in mary and conde's last scene. he doesn't seem comfortable in this role, at all. This s/l is awful, but maybe it would be more bearable, if he was a better actor and had better chemistry with Adelaide. casting fail.

Edited by dirtypop90
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I know Bash was acting out of love for francis. My comments were merely against the idea that francis and catherine should bow to bash after what he did when Bash's head would too be on the line if francis died. I have no doubt bash will be run out of court when francis eventually dies. It just wouldn't be smart to keep him around knowing people could try to rise up behind him given the past and charles's age. If reign reaches that point, I suspect he will leave for scotland with Mary.

 

Considering lola was for mary stealing francis's army with conde, I don't want francis with her either. I don't know why they won't introduce a real love interest for francis. It's a bit unrealistic that someone hasn't snatched him up yet. he's a king for goodness sake.

Edited by dirtypop90

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I just don't know why they need to diverge from real history so much when Mary's actual life just writes the show itself, but only AFTER she leaves France. Ever since the rape I've had a hard time with her plot line; the Condé stuff makes no sense considering what she has been through, and now they've had sex it just makes her character incomprehensible. Bash might be ok he's brother to Charles and Henri as well and they know and like him. I feel like they are turning Condé into Bothwell now and he will be trying to kill Francis and take her by force.

 

Glad I was not the only one who was jarred by the bad acting by Condé in that last scene with Mary.

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I've long suspected conde would be Reign's version of bothwell because the show wouldn't get that far. This really upsets me because Conde should be far more charming and charismatic and of course actually have chemistry with Mary.

 

charles will be too young to rule when francis dies, so Catherine will be ruling in his place. I suspect her running bash out will be how they transfer some of the main characters over the scotland, like Bash and Kenna, if the show ever gets there.

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Hot damn I love Francis. I think he's a great example of "Beware the Nice Ones". Mary spent some of the episode threatening in her most majestical manner, but she didn't hold a candle to a weak, bedridden Francis telling her what's what now that he's done with her bullshit. That boy has inherited something special from his mother.

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Okay, I've only been half paying attention this season - isn't Conde Protestant? I'm pretty sure he was in real life but I just wanna make sure they presented him that way on the show.

 

Was anyone else hoping Bash was gonna stab himself to save Francis? Or Kenna was gonna die? I like both those characters but come on! They need to up the stakes a little bit here if they aren't going to kill off Francis like he should be damn it. Clarissa doesn't count. If the devil actually comes and takes Bash's soul (totally a possibility on this show), I'm gonna groan.

 

Maybe Conde will die before the season is out. Please.

 

I liked the dress that Mary wore most of the evening a lot, but that white thing hurt my eyes.


I just don't know why they need to diverge from real history so much when Mary's actual life just writes the show itself, but only AFTER she leaves France. Ever since the rape I've had a hard time with her plot line; the Condé stuff makes no sense considering what she has been through, and now they've had sex it just makes her character incomprehensible. Bash might be ok he's brother to Charles and Henri as well and they know and like him.

 

They're children though who have no power.

 

I just really want a scene of Catherine ordering Bash to leave and never return like he's friggin' Snow White though, I admit.

Edited by ulkis

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Still hate Mary. Still love Francis. Still want Francis to take Conde's head. I will post that later til he is gone. But that will probably not happen anytime soon :(

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Still hate Mary. Still love Francis. Still want Francis to take Conde's head. I will post that later til he is gone. But that will probably not happen anytime soon :(

I think it will happen. Unless they kill off Bash. Well, if Conde is overall as unpopular with the general audience as he seems to be here, he'll probably be gone early next season. Hey, maybe Elizabeth can be the one to screw him over, that would be fun.

Edited by ulkis

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Now see everyone I know that watches the show loves Bash, myself included. And I love that Francis is SO over Mary. I hope that he and Lola get together for however long Regbo has left in his contract. Still can't stand Kenna at all. Love that Leith and Greer get to be together. I hope Elizabeth shows up and Conde dumps Mary for her. As long as they follow history loosely, I am good to go.

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Okay, I've only been half paying attention this season - isn't Conde Protestant? I'm pretty sure he was in real life but I just wanna make sure they presented him that way on the show.

 

He is presented as a complicated case -- he's been openly unhappy with the Catholic Church, but he only claimed Protestant as a favor to Mary, to give the court a strong Protestant figure to balance it out. No idea where he stands personally. He might by now think of himself as Protestant.

 

I just realized something -- how did Claude even get into Greer's brothel house? She should have been turned away at the door. Maybe Greer hasn't arranged for security/bouncers yet? She's going to need then. Plus she should have a name for her establishment (I've been marathoning Salem with "The Divining Rod".) Think it would be too cheeky of her to go with something like "The Queen's Ladies?" Or maybe she should go with a Scottish reference to set her House of Ill Repute apart from the ones run by the French.

 

(That reminds me; I thought there was a neat bit of characterization with Lola in this episode. I thought her support of sending armies to Scotland was way more about Scotland and less about betraying Francis. I think that's just her priority. It's like when John Philip was christened and Kenna and Greer gave her something with Scottish colors because despite the fact that they've all lived in France for a long time, they're at heart Scottish ladies first.)

 

Anyway, I'd love for Greer to send Catherine an itemized bill for any damages Claude did and any booze she drank. Being a princess doesn't mean she gets a free ride everywhere, in fact historically abusing a title to erase or ignore personal debts doesn't ever end well.

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Am I missing something, or are they re-writing their own history?  In this episode, it was said that Nostradamus predicted the death of Catherine's eldest child, which turns out to be Clarissa, not Francis.  But in the earlier episodes, we saw Nostradamus's vision specifically of Francis dying.

 

???

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23 comments and none about how Clarissa's attempted hanging was basically directly from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail?"

 

"We've found a witch -- may we [hang] her?"

"How do you know she's a witch?"

"She looks like one!"

 

I half-expected Bash to ask the villagers to go fetch a duck to see if she was made of wood.

 

Otherwise, I didn't mind this episode, though Mary vs. Narcisse was like junior league vs. varsity. You could just see him basically smirking at her because he was already seven steps ahead. I actually regained some sympathy for Mary in this episode, though -- I thought the show did a good job showing how impulsive and reckless she is (given her age and temperament) when there's no one to counterbalance her. Given the last scene, Conde is of a similar hotheaded temperament. What a disaster the two of them would be ruling together. The country would be burned to the ground and have made enemies of every nation in Europe because someone looked askance at them that one time.

Edited by Eolivet
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