Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. and the MCU

[Tarasme]

Can someone fill me in on how SWORD or HAMMER fit into the phase two/three MCU verse? After the schism revealed on "One of Us," a few posters in the ep thread mentioned HAMMER and SWORD- are these agencies that come up when everyone gets all nervous about super/ gifted people and decides they all need to register and remove masks?

[Raja]

SWORD is basically the. extraterrestrial fighting division of SHIELD. HAMMER comes from Iron Man II. The contractor who armed War Machine and built the drones which Stark destroyed in a dispute over his inventions and rights. In some story lines when Stark got out of armaments Hammer took over, including a disbanded SHIELD. With Spider Man now part of the MCU OSCORP of Green Goblin and others fame becomes another player in the high tech contractor fighting for market share

[Cranberry]

This thread is for discussion of/questions about how AoS fits into the MCU (comics questions are also fine). Expect untagged spoilers for anything that's been previously aired/published, but please treat upcoming show/movie/comics spoilers as you would in any other non-spoiler thread and tag those.

 

Subtitle suggestions also welcome!

[Tarasme]

 

This thread is for discussion of/questions about how AoS fits into the MCU (comics questions are also fine).

Thank you! I was discombobulated that this topic wasn't already in service. Thanks again!

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

Can someone fill me in on how SWORD or HAMMER fit into the phase two/three MCU verse? After the schism revealed on "One of Us," a few posters in the ep thread mentioned HAMMER and SWORD- are these agencies that come up when everyone gets all nervous about super/ gifted people and decides they all need to register and remove masks?

SWORD stands for something like Sentient Worlds Observation and Response Department, and as its name implies, it is meant to monitor and defeat alien threats. As far as I can recall, it hasn't been used all that much. Where it originated was from Joss Whedon's run on X-Men. So it's possible that they will try to import the concept here in AoS and ultimately divvy up responsibilities between Coulson's SHIELD and "real SHIELD" that way.

 

HAMMER in the comics was created after SHIELD failed to deal with a major threat. One of the oldest alien races in the Marvel Comics universe are the Skrulls, who are green-skinned, pointy-eared beings that can shapeshift (and happen to be mortal enemies with the Kree, who we have seen in AoS). In the Secret Invasion miniseries, the Skrulls managed to kidnap numerous superheroes and others (including Mockingbird) while sending shapeshifters to take their place and to lay the groundwork over the course of months for the titular invasion. Tony Stark was one of the primary targets of the invasion, not just because of being Iron Man, but also because at the time, he was the head of SHIELD. Anyway, Stark gets hypnotized and his tech gets subverted. Norman Osborn (who you might know from the Spider-Man comics/movies as the Green Goblin, a crazy-ass but brilliant inventor) was one of the key figures in thwarting the invasion and was able to use Skrull-proof technology. Because of SHIELD's failure and Osborn's success, he was appointed to head HAMMER, which basically was a harsher version of SHIELD.  He also came up with his own version of the Avengers, rebranding various villains into already existing superheroes, and made himself into Iron Patriot (unlike in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, where Rhodey was the first Iron Patriot.)

There's no connection, as far as I know, between the character of Justin Hammer (as seen in the comics and Iron Man II) and the organization HAMMER. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[Raja]

 

There's no connection, as far as I know, between the character of Justin Hammer (as seen in the comics and Iron Man II) and the organization HAMMER. 

I most be thinking of his taking over Stark International instead of SHIELD during the Tony Stark  alcoholism story line back when I bought the comics in 79.

[Tarasme]

Thanks for the replies to my question!

 

'Nother question- are the realSHIELD characters from "Love in the Time of Hydra"  known as any other splinter org in another Marvel universe? I thought Mockingbird was pretty firmly established as a Fury supporter but maybe I misunderstood?

[Chicago Redshirt]

As far as I know, all the REALD characters other than Mockingbird are AoS-only creations.

 

This EW article seems to confirm my understanding:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/24/agents-shield-heres-why-you-recognize-those-new-shield-leaders

[Eegah]

Although Gonzales seems to take quite a bit of inspiration from the post-Civil War Maria Hill. I'm all for it if that means this Maria won't be destroyed like that.

[jhlipton]

the titular invasion. 

 

I heard that the Titular Invasion was opening for the Cleavage of Evil this Friday at the Sportsplex!

Edited March 28, 2015 by jhlipton

[Chicago Redshirt]

 

 

Is there an order to all the movies that I should be watching? I've seen Avengers 1, and all 3 of the Iron Man movies, but I haven't seen any of the Hulk or Thor or Captain America films, and I'm not a comic book reader (though I would probably enjoy it), so sometimes I feel pretty lost in some of these conversations about the information from the films or in how this show does (or doesn't) tie in to the films.

I think someone answered this question for me once before but I forgot to bookmark it (stupid me) so I have no idea where to find that information. Could someone please tell me, if I were to sit down and watch all the films, what order would you suggest they go in, so that they make sense to me?

I mean, do you have to watch Thor 1, and then Captain America 1, and then Avengers 1, and then Thor 2 and Captain America 2 (at this point I don't even know which ones have multiple films and how many, so I really need help here). I've pretty much been in a bubble, film-wise, for the past 4 years -- I went back to school and was finishing a new career degree and tied to homework homework homework and that's about it, so I haven't really seen many films in the past few years except the final Harry Potter, the new Star Trek films, and I don't even know what else. Not much, sadly. I've been playing catch-up these past 6 months or so, LOL, trying to see what all I missed.

So if anyone could help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it (and will definitely bookmark the answer)! Thanks!

 

I took this from the thread about "One Door Closes."

 

To sum up, the MCU is an acronym for "the Marvel Cinematic Universe,"  which is sort of a revolutionary concept. Prior to it, each comic book movie or franchise was basically a universe to itself. Even though Superman and Batman are both DC characters, in the movies there was no sense that Superman existed in the Batman movies or vice versa.

 

Around 2005, Marvel decided to change that by putting the characters that it still controlled in one universe. (Marvel had sold the rights of some of its most famous characters, including the X-Men, the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man, to other studios). The idea would be that it would introduce several of its heroes in their own individual movies and then bring them together in a team movie: the Avengers.

 

So the following movies have been part of the MCU, and they take place in roughly the order of their release. I'm inserting where Agents of SHIELD takes place in the timeline as well:

 

Iron Man I

The Incredible Hulk (2008) (There is another Incredible Hulk movie that is not part of this continuity)

Iron Man II

Thor

Captain America: The First Avenger (technically, the bulk of the movie happens in the 40s, so well before Iron Man I. But the end takes place here)

The Avengers

Iron Man 3

Agents of SHIELD begins

Thor: The Dark World.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Agents of SHIELD Season 1 continues with "Turn, Turn, Turn"

Guardians of the Galaxy

Agents of SHIELD Season 2 (so far)

Avengers 2: Age of Ultron (due out in May)

 

If you want to watch all the movies and time permits, go for it. They are all at least somewhat entertaining IMO. Some movie theaters are actually going to have marathons of all the movies just before Avengers 2: Age of Ultron gets released.

 

However, most of them don't have much to do with the show.

 

Basically, the ones that are most important for following the show are the Avengers and Captain America: the Winter Soldier.

 

In The Avengers, we see how Nick Fury, director of SHIELD, pulled together a bunch of heroes and got them to fend off an alien invasion. We also see that SHIELD has a devious side, and we see Agent Coulson get killed in action. 

 

In Captain America: The Winter Soldier, we see how SHIELD had lost its way, got corrupted from within, and have Hydra infiltrate its ranks. It's also an awesome movie. 

 

Seeing some Thor might give you additional appreciation for Agent Coulson as to how he was pre-resurrection, pre-Skye.

 

In terms of pure entertainment value, I would most strongly recommend Cap 2, Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

If you have any questions about  the MCU, feel free to bring them up here!

[sinkwriter]

This was a wonderful (and wonderfully helpful) response. Thank you, Chicago Redshirt!

[Raja]

 

 

If you want to watch all the movies and time permits, go for it. They are all at least somewhat entertaining IMO. Some movie theaters are actually going to have marathons of all the movies just before Avengers 2: Age of Ultron gets released.

 

However, most of them don't have much to do with the show.

 

Basically, the ones that are most important for following the show are the Avengers and Captain America: the Winter Soldier.

 

In The Avengers, we see how Nick Fury, director of SHIELD, pulled together a bunch of heroes and got them to fend off an alien invasion. We also see that SHIELD has a devious side, and we see Agent Coulson get killed in action. 

 

In Captain America: The Winter Soldier, we see how SHIELD had lost its way, got corrupted from within, and have Hydra infiltrate its ranks. It's also an awesome movie. 

 

Seeing some Thor might give you additional appreciation for Agent Coulson as to how he was pre-resurrection, pre-Skye.

 

In terms of pure entertainment value, I would most strongly recommend Cap 2, Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

If you have any questions about  the MCU, feel free to bring them up here!

And most of the movies are playing every weekend on free TV now along with the Fast & Furious franchise, pick a weekend night and two of the movies may be on. If I were going to re-watch the entire run of Agents I would add in Ironman III. As we entered AoS "enhanced humans" were mostly technology based, failed attempts at recreating the Captain America super soldier serum. From Bruce Banner turning into the Hulk and Mike Peterson into Deathlok before the Inhumans focus we were seeing Centipede, AIM from Ironman as the main providers of enhanced threats that we needed a SHIELD to protect us from.

 

What will be interesting is how the Netflix series will tie in since they will not be as accessible as free TV or global spanning like the movies but you will be asked to add a subscription if you want to join in. I have been speculating since before we got the Madame Masque origin story on Love In The Time of Hydra that she would be a perfect fit in the Kingpen organized crime world of Daredevil

Edited April 2, 2015 by Raja

[Eegah]

The Thor movies are also worth watching along with AoS due to the so far two guest spots from Lady Sif. In particular, her statements about what's going on back in Asgard play VERY differently if you've seen The Dark World.

[Captain Stable]

For total continuity... Black Widow's character is introduced in Iron Man 2, and Hawkeye has a cameo appearance in Thor.

[sinkwriter]

Thank you both! I've seen all the Iron Man movies, and the first Avengers, but none of the Thor or Captain America films. Ordinarily I'd be jumping at these kinds of films. I like action adventure and superhero stuff. But I got so behind that I didn't know where to start anymore!

[Raja]

I think the reason why the Iron Man III doesn't get as much play as Captain America II in the greater Agents MCU discussion comes from the deep continuity issues. It was almost as if it were made by a traditional filmmaker who took the Iron Man comics lore and turned it for a PC audience. In taking Iron Man's Joker or Lex Luthor and turning him into a beard for someone else was almost a slap in the face for the MCU fan and will force a reboot, something that is not supposed to happen, of the Mandarin to make things right.

[Bruinsfan]

Eh, the movie earned earned over a billion dollars worldwide, far more than any of the other solo movies. As a comics fan I've made my peace with the prospect of being overruled by the vastly greater number of people for whom Iron Man 3's Madarin is the only Mandarin.

[MrWhyt]

Eh, the movie earned earned over a billion dollars worldwide, far more than any of the other solo movies. As a comics fan I've made my peace with the prospect of being overruled by the vastly greater number of people for whom Iron Man 3's Madarin is the only Mandarin.

I never thought the comic Mandarin could really work in the MCU, so I was OK with IM3's portrayal. Of course if you watch the All Hail the King one shot on the Thor: The Dark World DVD you'll see that IM3's Mandarin is in a spot of trouble with the real Mandarin.

[Eegah]

On Daredevil, Claire brings up her ex-boyfriend Mike who had his share of secrets. Anyone else suspect it was Mike Peterson?

[tennisgurl]

I totally thought the same thing! It is a surprising small universe! 

 

Anyone else watching Daredevil? I like it a whole lot. So far, strong out of the gate, no growing pains like AoS. 

Edited April 13, 2015 by tennisgurl

[ottoDbusdriver]

Anyone else watching Daredevil? I like it a whole lot. So far, strong out of the gate, no growing pains like AoS.

 

It's pretty good, much better than AoS.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think the reason why the Iron Man III doesn't get as much play as Captain America II in the greater Agents MCU discussion comes from the deep continuity issues. It was almost as if it were made by a traditional filmmaker who took the Iron Man comics lore and turned it for a PC audience. In taking Iron Man's Joker or Lex Luthor and turning him into a beard for someone else was almost a slap in the face for the MCU fan and will force a reboot, something that is not supposed to happen, of the Mandarin to make things right.

Iron Man III is my least favorite MCU movie, but not because of the Mandarin issue.

 

My problem with it was the film doesn't make much sense to me. Why taunt the Mandarin when you have no defensive systems ready? With the fairly ample warning that the helicopters were coming, why didn't Tony get more defensive stuff online? Even given that he has to flee, why not use his billions or his connections to do a better job recovering from the attack? And above all, with access to basically 30+ AI-controlled Iron Man suits, why didn't Tony or Jarvis have the suits just strafe the hell out of the Extremis guys instead of coming low enough where the Extremis guys got licks in?

 

On Daredevil, Claire brings up her ex-boyfriend Mike who had his share of secrets. Anyone else suspect it was Mike Peterson?

 

I didn't think of that, but I don't think it's a good fit. Mike had been married presumably for about the time period of Ace's life. So let's say 9 years. It doesn't seem like there would have been time for Mike to have dated Claire post-marriage breakup, or prior to Ace. Also, Claire's in New York, and I believe Mike was in San Francisco at the beginning of  SHIELD.

I didn't see much cross-over between Daredevil and SHIELD, other than Daredevil's dad fought Carl "Crusher" Creel and beat him instead of taking a dive. We saw Creel at the beginning of this season in his Absorbing Man glory. Daredevil had at least some overlap with SHIELD in the comics because he spent a fair amount of time dating Black Widow, who of course is a spy..

[Humbugged]

Skye and Matt Murdoch were in the same orphanage . Just to go with her knowing Puinisher's sidekick

 

Not a MCU easter egg but one from the books is that Crusher Creel's son was one of her team in Secret Warriors

[SnoGirl]

It's pretty good, much better than AoS.

Daredevil is what I wanted Agents of Shield to be. Maybe not as gritty but I had hoped for a show like Daredevil. I wish they'd pull Shield off of ABC and put it on Netflix. I can't even imagine the two shows ever crossing over or having Coulson pop up as a cameo, Shield is too shiny and clean for Daredevil.

[kennyab]

On Daredevil, Claire brings up her ex-boyfriend Mike who had his share of secrets. Anyone else suspect it was Mike Peterson?

The name is from an old story in which he faked being his twin brother, Mike Murdock. It's all very silver-agey, and this is the show's way of giving a fun little nod to a rather ridiculous (yet awesome to some kids of the era) piece of Daredevil lore.

Edited April 13, 2015 by kennyab

[kennyab]

Daredevil is what I wanted Agents of Shield to be. Maybe not as gritty but I had hoped for a show like Daredevil. I wish they'd pull Shield off of ABC and put it on Netflix. I can't even imagine the two shows ever crossing over or having Coulson pop up as a cameo, Shield is too shiny and clean for Daredevil.

I could see some AoS characters working as a cameo on Daredevil. Cal, Raina, Ward, May, even Coulson -- no Fitz or Simmons or Skye, though. It'd be a pretty easy setup, one of the criminal leaders tries to use someone from the Index and SHIELD responds to it. A grimmer version of "Girl in the Flower Dress." I think it'd be really interesting to see some of the characters who have dealt with the dirtier side of SHIELD in this milieu.

But I don't think it'd work the other way around, with Matt and Co ending up in SHIELD's world.

[Tarasme]

 

But I don't think it'd work the other way around, with Matt and Co ending up in SHIELD's world.

I think Jemma would swoon at getting a chance to examine Matty's extras! Total blush event.

 

(Okay, maybe not so much post-Trip Jemma... crud)

[Eegah]

In "Melinda" I got pretty excited for a second thinking I was seeing a cameo from Stick, but then I realized it was just Gordon in sunglasses. Still, him and Matt would be a pretty interesting meeting of the blind but not really guys.

[Humbugged]

I could see some AoS characters working as a cameo on Daredevil. Cal, Raina, Ward, May, even Coulson -- no Fitz or Simmons or Skye, though. It'd be a pretty easy setup, one of the criminal leaders tries to use someone from the Index and SHIELD responds to it.

 

Frankly if they are going to do a cameo ,given what we know now ,Skye is the one most likely to pop up .

 

They haven't made them both St Agnes' alumns for nothing .They might want to index him going forward and there is every chance they know each other as she spent the best part of her youth in same institution he was in so you would send her in wouldn't you.

[Boundary]

In "Melinda" I got pretty excited for a second thinking I was seeing a cameo from Stick, but then I realized it was just Gordon in sunglasses. Still, him and Matt would be a pretty interesting meeting of the blind but not really guys.

 

Now Stick would be a good candidate for an AoS cameo. But probably after Defenders, when his deal has been explained. Speaking of the Defenders, I read somewhere (don't have any links, sorry) that Coulson could be the one pulling them together. In this latest episode, it was revealed he's up to something, right?

Edited April 15, 2015 by Boundary

[Raja]

The reoccurring character Madame Masque/Agent 33. In the comics she is the daughter of a leader in Marvel's version of the Mafia. Although she is linked to Tony Stark in the books the organized crime link and attempted to rediscover herself makes a perfect link up to Hell's Kitchen and the Kingpin of Daredevil

[Kel Varnsen]

So speaking of the MCU a as a whole, has there ever been any kind of confirmation that the aircraft carrier that Real SHIELD is set up on is or is not the same one from The Avengers that was actually a Helicarrier?

[Raja]

The only thing I can remember is Commander Gonzales calling her the Icarus. It isn't Phoenix raising from the ashes  but does that mean she can fly?

[MandolinMagi]

The Icarus is a regular aircraft carrier. It only has the single flight deck and doesn't look anything like any of the Helicarriers. 

[Kel Varnsen]

The Icarus is a regular aircraft carrier. It only has the single flight deck and doesn't look anything like any of the Helicarriers. 

Which again makes me wonder, who controls the Helicarrier that was featured in The Avengers? Was it decommissioned in advance of the Project Insight Carriers going online, or did the government or Hydra manage to seize it? I mean if Bobbi was sent to blow up a regular aircraft carrier, was the same order given for a helicarrier? 

[mac123x]

Iron Man III is my least favorite MCU movie, but not because of the Mandarin issue.

 

My problem with it was the film doesn't make much sense to me. Why taunt the Mandarin when you have no defensive systems ready? With the fairly ample warning that the helicopters were coming, why didn't Tony get more defensive stuff online? Even given that he has to flee, why not use his billions or his connections to do a better job recovering from the attack? And above all, with access to basically 30+ AI-controlled Iron Man suits, why didn't Tony or Jarvis have the suits just strafe the hell out of the Extremis guys instead of coming low enough where the Extremis guys got licks in?

 

In general, the Iron Man movies are character driven rather than plot driven.  I was able to overlook the myriad plot holes in IM3 because the movie was about Tony coping with the trauma of the Battle of New York.  Taunting the Mandarin was stupid, but it made sense because Tony's behavior up until then (not sleeping, cutting himself off from Pepper, burying himself in  work developing new suits, etc.) indicated that there was something seriously wrong with him emotionally.  Recklessly taunting the Mandarin was pretty much an unconscious suicide attempt.  I could empathize with what he was going through, so I could forgive the silly contrivances of the plot.

 

IM2 on the other hand... ugh.  Hated it.

 

 

The only thing I can remember is Commander Gonzales calling her the Icarus. It isn't Phoenix raising from the ashes  but does that mean she can fly?

 

I hope they fired whoever decided to name an aircraft carrier after a guy who died in flight due to his own stupidity.

[anna0852]

My big question would be how Ulton and AOS will fit together. We know that the movies affect the show. Depending on how much time the movie covers, we might have a time skip coming up.

[Kel Varnsen]

My big question would be how Ulton and AOS will fit together. We know that the movies affect the show. Depending on how much time the movie covers, we might have a time skip coming up.

I have been wondering that too. As far as I can tell from the trailers, a lot of people are going to find out that Fury is alive. How is that going to affect the battle of the two SHIELDs?

[anna0852]

Especially since the movie comes out before the TV season ends. We should have an episode or two dealing with the aftermath.

[Boundary]

Since the show is affected by the movie, I'd think the aftermath will be covered by a few episodes. Will Skye find out about Ultron? She's a hacker so this is right up her alley. How will the other Inhumans react (or not)? I hope Maria Hill straightens out this Real SHIELD vs SHIELD business.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Boundary

[ottoDbusdriver]

Will Skye find out about Ultron? She's a hacker so this is right up her alley.

 

Somehow I doubt Ultron uses Instagram or Facebook, so Skye won't even know of Ultron's existence. </snark>

[KirkB]

Skye's kind of busy in Afterlife now, where they may not have any internet at all, so it's likely Ultron and the Avengers will trash a portion of the world without her even knowing about it. Considering how long after the movie it took the show to reflect the literal fallout from Thor 2, let alone Winter Soldier, the events of AoU will probably be felt in or around the season finale.

[tv echo]

If you really want to know, see the Spoiler thread here.

Edited April 21, 2015 by tv echo

[teenj12]

I too wonder how the Inhumans will react to the events of the Avengers' battle against Ultron.

[Raja]

The reoccurring character Madame Masque/Agent 33. In the comics she is the daughter of a leader in Marvel's version of the Mafia. Although she is linked to Tony Stark in the books the organized crime link and attempted to rediscover herself makes a perfect link up to Hell's Kitchen and the Kingpin of Daredevil

Well it seems as the MCU Kara is Mexican so there goes my easy link to Daredevils Hell's Kitchen easy link. Not to say she couldn't have cartel linkage and went to SHIELD instead of conventional law enforcement sort of like Black Widow.

[Iceman91]

a little question, if we want to talk about Age of Ultron and how it may relate to AoS do we use this thread with spoiler tags or the spoiler thread ?

[Cranberry]

Ultron stuff doesn't belong in the AoS spoiler thread; that's just for AoS spoilers. You can talk about how the film relates to the show here without spoiler tags anytime after it opens in the US (so, fair warning to anyone who regularly reads this thread: starting May 1, there may be detailed movie talk).

 

Discussion of the movie in general would of course go in its thread in the Movies forum. That should work, I think!

[VCRTracking]

I hope that the AOS episode that airs right after the Age of Ultron's US premiere will take place during the movie.  I loved that about  the "Winter Soldier" tie in.

[Kromm]

It sounds like Whedon himself isn't ducking talking about this, so I think it's fair to post this now (since he's on record saying this now)

 

SHIELD agent Phil Coulson had to stay dead for Avengers 2, says Joss Whedon