S05.E14: Spend

[AngelaHunter]

But I do think she is ready for some damn peace already.

 

Definitely. I'd like to see her go and threaten PeePants privately, a la Carol, to the extent that not only would he re-pee his pants, but run to Deanna and retract everything he said to her, maybe explaining that the Devil made him do it.

[RedheadZombie]

Photo Recap is up, and it's a good one!

 

God, all of it was good, but my favorite:

 

Deanna:  BTW, Reg and I have decided to adopt you Sweetie

Glenn:  Um I gotta go

 

There's also a pic of Reg waving while standing next to Deanna.  I can almost imagine he says, "Have fun storming the castle".

 

 anyone wonder why sam insists on hanging around carol who threatened his life rather psychotically in the last episode?  is he so afraid of his dad that hanging out with batshit carol seems safer somehow? wouldn't ANYWHERE be safer than either of those two?  or is he just a dumb kid who wants to follow around the cookie lady at any cost? OR maybe he's actually smart and realizes he has a piece of info to blackmail carol with and use that to get cookies and protection and maybe his own gun?  so he's either really smart or really dumb.  

 

I will naively stick to the story that the little boy can see through Carol's psychotic façade, and see the warm gooey center.  Carol will do anything to try to save a child, and lucky for him, Carol's bad luck seems to involve blonde little girls.  He'll probably make it out alive.

 

Best (and most accurate quote): "The hospital arc was pointless"...yes, it was. Very very much so.

 

Yes, I think that speaks for a lot of us.  If they were going to kill off Beth, followed closely by Noah, why show, why the hospital?  I'm sure they could have found another reason to go to Virginia and kill off Tyreese.

[Nashville]

There's also a pic of Reg waving while standing next to Deanna.  I can almost imagine he says, "Have fun storming the castle".

 

I don't know if I should feel disturbed for thinking the exact same thing - but you probably should.

[CletusMusashi]

If they were going to kill off Beth, followed closely by Noah, why show, why the hospital?  

For the lollicop jokes.

And maybe,if we're very, very good until Christmas, for Lord Fluffington.

[kikismom]

For the lollicop jokes.

And maybe,if we're very, very good until Christmas, for Lord Fluffington.

You might put LF in the glossary of terms.

[ghoulina]

I will naively stick to the story that the little boy can see through Carol's psychotic façade, and see the warm gooey center.  Carol will do anything to try to save a child, and lucky for him, Carol's bad luck seems to involve blonde little girls.  He'll probably make it out alive.

 

That's what I think - I think he can sense that protective mommy deep down inside of her. Or maybe he likes that she's badass, and thinks she can help his family. I don't know, kids are always drawn to Carol, even when she tries to rebuff them. 

 

I rewatched last night and I'm 99% sure it was Carol who said, "Pete, don't" (or whatever it was) as he shut the door. I think if Carol had actually HEARD Jessie crying out, she'd burst in there and start setting dudes on fire. 

 

I am even more certain that Pete is hurting them. He got super defensive when Carol asked if Sam was okay. All she said was, "I was with Sam earlier, is he okay?" She could have phrased it better, said something about him going home because his tummy hurt and she wanted to see if he was feeling better. But it didn't sound THAT pointed, what she said. If my neighbor came to the door and asked that, I'd just be like, "Yea, he's fine". But Pete was immediately, "Why wouldn't he be??" That would have sounded an alarm bell for me as well. I trust Carol's instincts. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

That's what I think - I think he can sense that protective mommy deep down inside of her. Or maybe he likes that she's badass, and thinks she can help his family. I don't know, kids are always drawn to Carol, even when she tries to rebuff them. 

 

I rewatched last night and I'm 99% sure it was Carol who said, "Pete, don't" (or whatever it was) as he shut the door. I think if Carol had actually HEARD Jessie crying out, she'd burst in there and start setting dudes on fire. 

 

I am even more certain that Pete is hurting them. He got super defensive when Carol asked if Sam was okay. All she said was, "I was with Sam earlier, is he okay?" She could have phrased it better, said something about him going home because his tummy hurt and she wanted to see if he was feeling better. But it didn't sound THAT pointed, what she said. If my neighbor came to the door and asked that, I'd just be like, "Yea, he's fine". But Pete was immediately, "Why wouldn't he be??" That would have sounded an alarm bell for me as well. I trust Carol's instincts. 

 

This.  And another tell (IMO) was how he held the door mostly closed, and himself barring what little she could see from the obstructed view.  It wasn't a very inviting gesture.  It was more like "You aren't allowed in or to see just how I deal with things around here."

[morgankobi]

I would be extremely surprised if it turns out Pete isn't abusing Jessie because of how it has been presented. We can discuss signs and reactions until Sunday (and we will), but the writer's are telling a story and are hitting some tried and true marks. When I look at what they are giving us, Carol's intuition as a survivor, Pete's drinking and somewhat harsh demeanor, Sam's request for a gun for someone else, etc. I think it's clear where they are headed.

If this were a Vince Gilligan show, I wouldn't be this sure.

Edited March 20, 2015 by morgankobi

[JBody]

I would be extremely surprised if it turns out Pete isn't abusing Jessie because of how it has been presented. We can discuss signs and reactions until Sunday (and we will), but the writer's are telling a story and are hitting some tried and true marks. When I look at what they are giving us, Carol's intuition as a survivor, Pete's drinking and somewhat harsh demeanor, Sam's request for a gun for someone else, etc. I think it's clear where they are headed.

If this were a Vince Gilligan show, I wouldn't be this sure.

 

You got that right.  "Subtle, this show is not." (Yoda, qtd. in Star Wars: The Phantom Phart)

[Ouisch]

Sam returning to Carol after her threat reminds me of my own Dad, who was as cantankerous and crotchety as they come....but yet for some reason a handful of the young boys (two of which I know came from divorced homes - still something of a rarity in our neighborhood back in the 1970s - where the dad no longer lived at home) on our block still came to hang out while he was working on cars in our driveway or working in the garage. He fixed their bicycles and their skateboards and sometimes let them help with what he was doing, but he was NOT a patient or nurturing person. He always hollered, never gently corrected. My only thought is that maybe he was giving the kids some sort of attention (and discipline, since some of them had mouths like sailors - at age seven or eight - and he'd yell at them to not come around if they were going to talk like that) that they were lacking at home.

 

So if Sam isn't intimidated by Carol's threats, and keeps returning because at the very least she listens to him, even if it's only to chastise him, it may be an indicator that all is not well in his home.

[Arnella]

I love Carol but she's kinda gone from well deserved badass to some kind of sociopath and needs to dial it down.  Rick is borderline governor right now and she's feeding that. 
Who would have thought that Daryl of all people would be the one to fit in and find friends here?  I hope Rick and Carol don't wreck that for him.
This was the first time that I ever liked Abraham.  I always knew he was good to have in a fight but hated the character and his story and his attitude.  However when he took control of the situation so capably and his obvious respect for that woman, he would have been my leader too.

[RedheadZombie]

Who would have thought that Daryl of all people would be the one to fit in and find friends here?  I hope Rick and Carol don't wreck that for him.

 

Daryl was well liked at the prison.  Remember the high-fives?  His only friends here so far are Aaron and Eric.  That's plenty, but they're also outcasts.  I don't like all of our gang interacting separately.  Rick with Jessie, Maggie with Deanna, Daryl with Aaron, Carol with Sam, Abraham with the construction crew.  At least couple them up.

[kj4ever]

Daryl was well liked at the prison.  Remember the high-fives?  His only friends here so far are Aaron and Eric.  That's plenty, but they're also outcasts.  I don't like all of our gang interacting separately.  Rick with Jessie, Maggie with Deanna, Daryl with Aaron, Carol with Sam, Abraham with the construction crew.  At least couple them up.

The people in the prison were living "out there", and they realized Daryl's worth.  He kept them fed.  I suspect the pampered Alexandrian's still hold on to some prejudices...Daryl cleaning the opossum on the front porch to the ASZ is like Eww, and to the prison peeps it would be a beautiful sight because they would know they were going to eat.

[Bobeee]

I love the way that this show is twisting and turning story wise and has had me (at times) sitting on the edge of my seat. This show just gets more awesome by the minute. I've realized now that some humans are simply more frightening than the supposed real enemies and that if the unbelievable really did happen belief in people would be pretty short lived. Why is it though that the more Carol gets badder I find her sexier...  maybe I just like bad ass thin birds? !!

[Pete Martell]

Daryl was well liked at the prison.  Remember the high-fives?  His only friends here so far are Aaron and Eric.  That's plenty, but they're also outcasts.  I don't like all of our gang interacting separately.  Rick with Jessie, Maggie with Deanna, Daryl with Aaron, Carol with Sam, Abraham with the construction crew.  At least couple them up.

 

I think the idea of the group being separate is very interesting - I just wonder if it was intentional on the show's part. I know a lot of fans noticed that scene of Rick, Carol and Daryl each walking their own separate way near the end of Forget. 

 

The separation is one of the parts I want them to explore more. This has been a "family" in an increasingly frayed sense ever since the prison fell, and to some degree, even before then, as it was obvious that Sasha and Tyreese and others were not all that closely tied to leaders like Rick or Daryl. It's a shame that so many in Alexandria are worthless and/or selfish, because if they weren't, then I think we'd really start seeing the group split into pieces.

[AngelaHunter]

I think the idea of the group being separate is very interesting - I just wonder if it was intentional on the show's part.

 

I was thinking the same thing, and it seems to be a deliberate - and maybe quite cagey -  move on Deanna's part perhaps for the same reasons prisoners are discouraged from standing around in groups. No "pack mentality" permitted.

[lulee]

Just watched the behind-the-scenes clips that Pete Martell posted in the Media thread. In the one about the micro-processors run, Tyler James Williams says that "Noah has to sacrifice himself" to the walkers. I have watched the scene of bunch of times now and hadn't read it as a conscious decision to let himself be taken rather than Glenn.

 

I'm curious about how others saw it.

[GodsBeloved]

In Rick's mind, anyway, I think this fell more into the lines of justifiable homocide. A successful BadBob escape represented an immediate and intolerable threat to the survival of his team, so Rick acted to neutralize that threat by whatever means were warranted. Besides, he did ask BadBob to stop of his own accord - twice, IIRC - before running him down.

Once Rick ran the man down, he was no longer an immediate threat to Rick or his followers, though I don't necessarily agree than Bob escaping his captors automatically meant he was an immediate threat to them.

 

Once Rick had the bound Bob on the ground he could have easily hauled him into the back of the police car, a place designed to contain criminals. If he didn't want to include Bob in the prisoner exchanged he could have left him in the car. He even could have secured Bob somewhere to keep him immobile, which is something we know Rick knows how to do. See Merle.

[flutist4fun]

Just watched the behind-the-scenes clips that Pete Martell posted in the Media thread. In the one about the micro-processors run, Tyler James Williams says that "Noah has to sacrifice himself" to the walkers. I have watched the scene of bunch of times now and hadn't read it as a conscious decision to let himself be taken rather than Glenn.

 

I'm curious about how others saw it.

I rewatched last night, and I didn't see it as any more than bad luck for Noah. He got dragged out by the leg when Nicholas created the opening. TJW's interpretation may be the actor giving it a good spin. On TD, Steven Yeun said that Noah's last words ("Don't let go!") referred as much to the character's wish that the group would carry on as to his own personal plea for help, and I thought that was spin too, along the same lines. I guess it's natural for them to want to endow their characters with some nobility, but I think it's after the fact. In the scene it seems that they are both understandably panicked and Noah just gets dragged out first, screaming for his life. Sad, but no conscious decision making, I think. I guess you wouldn't even have time for a decision. The instinct for survival would overtake everything. (Shudder.)

[Raven1707]

I also watched "Spend" again last night (for the 7th time this week) and noticed a couple of petty details:

 

• When Gabriel enters his converted-garage church, he has both that crinkled sheet of wax paper and what appears to be a glue stick with an orange cap, presumably in order to repair the torn page in the bible. He puts the glue stick on the lectern on the left side of the opened bible, and it can be seen in the background after he moves off to the side to look at the strawberries and/or welcoming note from Rosemary.
• It isn't just any warehouse Glenn's group is searching: "Solar Distribution Group" is visible one of the truck/trailers that Tara and Eugene walk by, and there's also a "Solar" logo on another, with a graphic of the Sun replacing the "o" in Solar. This same logo appears on at least one carton in the warehouse. In the lobby with the revolving door of death, "Solar Distribution Group" appears also on the wall; there are one or two words above that, but I couldn't make them out.
• Francine wasn't the only female on the construction crew; there was at least one other woman present. (And no, I'm not referring to Tobin.)
• I agree that it was Carol who says "Pete, don't" when he closes the door in her face.
• At the very end of the episode, it looks like Rick's wedding ring is near the tip (distal inter-phalangeal joint) of his left ring finger and then he slides it back on. Whether he'd actually taken it completely off is not clear.

 

Only two more episodes this season to obsess over...

[kikismom]

Once Rick ran the man down, he was no longer an immediate threat to Rick or his followers, though I don't necessarily agree than Bob escaping his captors automatically meant he was an immediate threat to them.

 

Once Rick had the bound Bob on the ground he could have easily hauled him into the back of the police car, a place designed to contain criminals. If he didn't want to include Bob in the prisoner exchanged he could have left him in the car. He even could have secured Bob somewhere to keep him immobile, which is something we know Rick knows how to do. See Merle.

????????????

 

I rewatched last night, and I didn't see it as any more than bad luck for Noah. He got dragged out by the leg when Nicholas created the opening. TJW's interpretation may be the actor giving it a good spin. On TD, Steven Yeun said that Noah's last words ("Don't let go!") referred as much to the character's wish that the group would carry on as to his own personal plea for help, and I thought that was spin too, along the same lines. I guess it's natural for them to want to endow their characters with some nobility, but I think it's after the fact. In the scene it seems that they are both understandably panicked and Noah just gets dragged out first, screaming for his life. Sad, but no conscious decision making

Yes! It was IMHO the same as MMB saying Carol only meant that an enemy outside the fence would tie Sam to a tree; not her of course lol.

Noah didn't seem to have noble thoughts on his mind or encouraging words of support:

Edited March 21, 2015 by kikismom

[tennisgurl]

 

I would be extremely surprised if it turns out Pete isn't abusing Jessie because of how it has been presented.

I know I have said this before, but I called that he was abusive from the very first time we saw him. They might as well have played ominous music behind him, and maybe have him wearing a black top hat, and a twirly mustache. 

 

I don't like it. It already seems like a lifetime movie has sprung up right in the middle of our zombie show, and it could threaten to take over the remainder of the season. Domestic abuse is a very real issue, and I just don't think we have the time to really get into it right now. They already have a great "woman in an abusive relationship rises above her past to become strong" story with Carol. We already have a billion characters now, even if they keep killing people, we don't have the screen time to deal with this abusive husband/Rick love story. Speaking of...

 

They really need to stop killing off Team Family for awhile. I know that they are a huge group now, plus we have all these new people, and that maybe we need to have a bit of a culling, but this is getting ridiculous. I would really rather focus on the characters we have, then focus too much on the new ones, or feel like they are getting killed off for cheap shock value.  

Edited March 21, 2015 by tennisgurl

[kikismom]

I don't think in a story like this that it's necessary to have any shock associated with human death. It is 18 months or more into "the extinction event of the human race" (Jenner), food shelter and water are what your life is worth. I'd be shocked if we didn't see lots of people killed right and left. But that's just me.

[Yolapukka]

 

 

Once Rick ran the man down, he was no longer an immediate threat to Rick or his followers, though I don't necessarily agree than Bob escaping his captors automatically meant he was an immediate threat to them.

Once Rick had the bound Bob on the ground he could have easily hauled him into the back of the police car, a place designed to contain criminals. If he didn't want to include Bob in the prisoner exchanged he could have left him in the car. He even could have secured Bob somewhere to keep him immobile, which is something we know Rick knows how to do. See Merle.

 

Once Rick ran the man down, he had a choice of leaving him to the approaching walkers or risking his own life to get him in the car, with the added complication that his condition could represent an impediment to the hostage exchange. Saving him would not have been easy or simple, it may not have even been possible as he had serious injuries that could have been life-threatening and would have made him dead weight if Rick tried to move him, though it would have been the heroic thing to do, at least in the most basic terms. However, we had a particularly graphic example in this weeks show of an attempt to save someone in a dire situation resulting in not one, but two horrible deaths. Frankly if the writers hadn't made the curious choice of making this particular lollicop fairly likeable, unlike the rest of the Grady hospital bunch, I would not have done much more than blink at Rick's treatment of him. We heard and saw ample evidence that these cops "recruited" new blood by using their vehicles to knock people down, leaving some to die. As ugly as the man's death was, at least Rick didn't leave him to be eaten alive by walkers. I wasn't fond of Rick's reactions in that story, including his plan to rescue Carol and Beth by launching a stealth assault on the hospital and killing all who stood between him and his people, but I understood what informed that perspective. I didn't like seeing Rick make the choices he did but I can't say I was impressed by the wisdom of cop-Bob's choices like knocking Sasha out after using her own kindness against her, escaping and consequently endangering his fellow hostages, continuing to run after two warnings from the pursuing vehicle and further, continuing to run instead of veering to the side once he heard the vehicle's engine revving as it sped up. 

 

Merle is not a great example of the benefits of immobilizing someone, since we know what that meant for him in the immediate and long-term future.

Edited March 21, 2015 by yuggapukka

[tennisgurl]

 

don't think in a story like this that it's necessary to have any shock associated with human death. It is 18 months or more into "the extinction event of the human race" (Jenner), food shelter and water are what your life is worth. I'd be shocked if we didn't see lots of people killed right and left. But that's just me.

Oh I totally agree that people need to die in a story like this. It would be ridiculous if no one ever died. I applaud them for using the constant threat of death so well. But from a story telling perspective, it makes it hard to grow attached to characters when they might just be zombie food next week. And it feels like we have lost a lot of characters right in a row, with Beth, Tyreese, and now Noah. With say, Lori or Hershel or Shane, I felt like their deaths were important, and were the climax of either their character arc, or of a particular story line. These last few didn't really seem to have any actual point, other than to invalidate any importance from the whole hospital thing. I know that, in a show like this, not all deaths have to be big and dramatic, and that random, pointless deaths can, and should happen, but three in a row? That just seems like a little much for me. They were more like "things really suck out here, right?"

 

But maybe the next few episodes will prove me wrong, I don't know.  

 

And that's not even touching the whole "black guy dies first" pattern...

[Nashville]

Once Rick had the bound Bob on the ground he could have easily hauled him into the back of the police car, a place designed to contain criminals. If he didn't want to include Bob in the prisoner exchanged he could have left him in the car. He even could have secured Bob somewhere to keep him immobile, which is something we know Rick knows how to do. See Merle.

 

Except for one thing - he just got smashed by a car.  BadBob was too messed up to survive and Rick knew it, which broke the situation down to one last question - leave BadBob to get ripped apart by walkers, or take him out clean?

 

Plus, BadBob just talked too much, and he wouldn't shut up.  :)

Edited March 21, 2015 by Nashville

[Raven1707]

As a cop, you'd think Lamson would recognize the risks inherent in trying to out-run a police car while handcuffed, particularly after being warned twice.

[AngelaHunter]

In Rick's mind, anyway, I think this fell more into the lines of justifiable homocide. A successful BadBob escape represented an immediate and intolerable threat to the survival of his team, so Rick acted to neutralize that threat

 

That was New Rick, who just couldn't fucking be bothered and just shut BadBob up in the most expedient way. No fuss, no muss. Shut up accomplished.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Is it evil that I want Morgan to return in a real way so they reach their cap of 4 black actors and kill FPP? 'Course, the way things have been going we'd lose Sasha or Michonne. Sigh.

I completely agree that the hospital was pointless, but only in that it wasn't executed very well. Kind of a microcosm of the character of Beth, who was also sort of pointless and executed badly in both a literal and figurative sense. I think the hospital was supposed to represent an in between of Terminus and Alexandria. Deanna wants happy land. Gareth wanted happy meals. The hospital showed there are no happy mediums.

Unfortunately, it was just slow and weird. RapeCops, unchecked OCD, and black market guinea pig meat. I'm glad Beth "got it", because I sure didn't.

Edited March 22, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

I actually thought that Sam was using the cookies as an excuse to work his way up to asking Carol for the gun.

This made me think that Jessie took the gun to protect the kids. I still don't think that's right (I think Enid did) but it has me wondering.

[kikismom]

Would be funny if Enid stole Rick's blender gun, and Sam got a gun from Carol, and the kids start a revolution.

[editorgrrl]

I actually thought that Sam was using the cookies as an excuse to work his way up to asking Carol for the gun.

Why couldn't Sam just take a gun (or three) when he got the chocolate? Carol grabbed some chocolate when she got the guns.

[kikismom]

Why couldn't Sam just take a gun (or three) when he got the chocolate? Carol grabbed some chocolate when she got the guns.

At first I thought, maybe he's not that wily; he's no Season 2 Carl.

But then I have considered he may have thought that if he gets caught with chocolate on the way to Carol's house, not so bad. If he gets stopped and has firearms?

Very bad. Why not let someone else do the really risky stuff and let someone else get blamed if it goes south.

[editorgrrl]

[sam]'s no Season 2 Carl.

Sam doesn't stay in the house. His mother has no idea what he's up to. And he's found a surrogate father figure.

[kikismom]

Sam doesn't stay in the house. His mother has no idea what he's up to. And he's found a surrogate father figure.

On the other hand, Jessie knew right away where Carl was. Odd, huh?

[Raven1707]

Another petty detail:

 

It does appear that Eugene was wearing his pack just before he left the shipping office carrying Tara, so he might have at least a couple of the micro-inverters with him.

 

ETA: Of course, it's probably a moot point, all things considered.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Raven1707

[kelslamu]

 Absolutely. I was thinking that when Tara was injured. Nobody is going to piss off Pete if he's the only doctor in town. Rick and Carol are going to have to walk a fine line with this one.

 

I think that Sam went to Carol in part because he finally met someone who wasn't a milqtoast. Like he suddenly realized that there was a way to fight back.

I agree.  He sees her as someone who can be mean and do something about it.  She isn't scared.