S04.E15: Enter The Dragon

[Shanna Marie]

I think we've reached the part of the series where this is a first-time rewatch for me. The last time I tried rewatching straight through, I think I fizzled out around this point. You'd think that would make the episodes fresher and more interesting, but I had a hard time keeping focus on this one. I think part of the problem is that the whole Maleficent storyline just doesn't go anywhere. First time through, it might have been intriguing but

Spoiler

we never learn what's going on with Stefan, Maleficent, Briar Rose, etc., and apparently it didn't matter. Then Maleficent fell off the planet and wasn't heard from again. She was supposedly good now, still had power, and might have come in handy with the various bad guys who came through town, but she was strangely silent.

Meanwhile, the present-day storyline is sort of blah. Lame mean girls hazing rituals, and why are they focusing so much on August? Didn't we see him creating those pages? What does that have to do with the Author?

I did like the Rumple impersonating Hook parts, mostly because of some very nice acting. I don't think first time through I figured out it was Rumple until he was trying to get Belle to give him the dagger, but there's definitely a difference between ordinary Hook and Rumple pretending to be Hook. I guess I'll give the writing some credit because there's some Rumple flavor in the lines, like a parody of Hook as written by Rumple, but there's also just enough difference in body language and inflection that it does come across as a different person but without being so obvious that Belle looks like an idiot for not noticing. I particularly liked the way he moved his head when she ordered the Dark One to face her. There was just enough force in it to look like the movement was compelled. But I do have to repeat myself here:

On 3/20/2015 at 10:21 PM, Shanna Marie said:

I keep saying, as soon as you know that it's possible for people to make themselves appear to be other people, you need passwords or some other kind of identity verification system before discussing anything important. Constant Vigilance! And since they know that it's possible for someone to have entered the town and since they know that Rumple has the power to change his appearance, no one should ever hand the dagger over to anyone without first saying "Dark One, I command you to hop on one foot." Or something else that would be a lot more obvious than "face me."

They need a two-step process -- "Dark One, come here" to make sure he's not somewhere around, then "Dark One, hop on one foot" to make sure the person with you isn't the Dark One.

And if you need these security procedures because you can't trust your husband, then your marriage has problems.

I hate seeing Will reduced to just being someone to make Rumple jealous. Hook hanging out with Belle should have been more than enough to set Rumple off.

[Camera One]

I haven't gotten around to rewatching this, but I forgot that Will was still on the show at this point.  

This was an example of an episode where forcing a series regular into a guest character's centric short-changed the guest.  It was the reverse of "White Out".  In that one, forcing Anna into Charming's story resulted in a very unconvincing moment of change in David's life.  In this one, forcing Regina into Maleficient's story resulted in a very unconvincing moment of change in Maleficent's life.  They even hired an actor for Stefan and brought back the actress for Aurora, and yet the majority of Maleficent's scenes were with Regina.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

I haven't gotten around to rewatching this, but I forgot that Will was still on the show at this point.  

This was an example of an episode where forcing a series regular into a guest character's centric short-changed the guest.  It was the reverse of "White Out".  In that one, forcing Anna into Charming's story resulted in a very unconvincing moment of change in David's life.  In this one, forcing Regina into Maleficient's story resulted in a very unconvincing moment of change in Maleficent's life.  They even hired an actor for Stefan and brought back the actress for Aurora, and yet the majority of Maleficent's scenes were with Regina.

Yes, we are suppose to care the Maleficent is so depressed she can't get revenge against anyone. No idea why she hates Stefan so much since they never tell us. But then be so happy that Regina manages to help get Maleficent get her groove back so she can put Aurora under a sleeping curse. So, yea? That's what so messed up about this show. They really want us to root for Maleficent then give us a messed up reason for it. I would be more interested in Maleficent wanted revenge against Regina for trapping her, Charming and Emma for attacking her (even though it was to put the egg in her and get it back out again), Hook who attacked her and Rumple since he's the reason Charming and Emma went after her. They also should have brought it up way back in season two when the Curse broke so she would be free to attack and they introduced Aurora and Philip. I don't care about her baby. I hate the eggnapping story because it makes zero sense.

[Camera One]

46 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I would be more interested in Maleficent wanted revenge against Regina for trapping her, Charming and Emma for attacking her (even though it was to put the egg in her and get it back out again), Hook who attacked her and Rumple since he's the reason Charming and Emma went after her. 

Exactly.  These are organic reasons for why Maleficient would want revenge on everyone and be their enemy.  Instead, Maleficient's all "Bygones!" to Regina and Rumple while

Spoiler

her main anger is against a retconned action by Snowing.  What could be worse than using Maleficent to get the Dark Curse and then leaving her to die, or stowing a potion inside of her so Rumple could get it later, or keeping her in dragon form underground for 28 years?  Oh yeah, the absolute worst were those hypocritical do-gooders stealing her baby and possibly sending the baby to death, which makes them JUST as bad as Regina sending knights to kill Baby Emma, or Rumple preying on desperate parents to take their babies.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That's what so messed up about this show. They really want us to root for Maleficent then give us a messed up reason for it.

Other shows can make you want to root for the villain, even if it's messed up. OUAT didn't do this well because there's no real reason to feel bad for Maleficent. We didn't see what Briar Rose or Stefan did to her. Without her nameplate, she isn't much of a badass. Who wants to watch her depressed around the house getting high on sleeping powder? I can root for a twisted villain, but she was just so lame in 4B.

Quote

I don't care about her baby. I hate the eggnapping story because it makes zero sense.

Spoiler

And the father ended up being Zorro. WTF?

Edited March 3, 2019 by KingOfHearts

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

Other shows can make you want to root for the villain, even if it's messed up. OUAT didn't do this well because there's no real reason to feel bad for Maleficent. We didn't see what Briar Rose or Stefan did to her. Without her nameplate, she isn't much of a badass. Who wants to watch her depressed around the house getting high on sleeping powder? I can root for a twisted villain, but she was just so lame in 4B.

  Reveal spoiler

And the father ended up being Zorro. WTF?

Yeah, that's where OUAT always goes wrong. They never give us a reason to feel sorry for the villains. We're suppose to feel sorry for Regina even though she's gotten what she wanted most of the time, Rumple even though he always choses power over everything else, Maleficent because she's too sad and depressed to terrorize people anymore. But thank God Regina came and helped her so she can get back to terrorizing people. 

[KAOS Agent]

Even if there was some deep horrible thing that Stefan and Briar Rose did to Maleficent, what we saw wasn't her getting revenge on them, but on Aurora. There's nothing to root for when a "wronged" person is getting justice on an innocent party.  In addition to cursing Aurora, Maleficent exiled Phillip and turned him into the Yaoguai. How awesome of Regina to not just enjoy her own evil acts, but encourage some other evil to wreak havoc on the kingdom. I have no sympathy for either of them especially when they expect everyone else to just suck it up and get over it, but feel completely justified in continuing to pursue some sort of justice/revenge/recompense for their sob stories.

[andromeda331]

6 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

Even if there was some deep horrible thing that Stefan and Briar Rose did to Maleficent, what we saw wasn't her getting revenge on them, but on Aurora. There's nothing to root for when a "wronged" person is getting justice on an innocent party.  In addition to cursing Aurora, Maleficent exiled Phillip and turned him into the Yaoguai. How awesome of Regina to not just enjoy her own evil acts, but encourage some other evil to wreak havoc on the kingdom. I have no sympathy for either of them especially when they expect everyone else to just suck it up and get over it, but feel completely justified in continuing to pursue some sort of justice/revenge/recompense for their sob stories.

Neither do I.

[Shanna Marie]

19 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I would be more interested in Maleficent wanted revenge against Regina for trapping her, Charming and Emma for attacking her (even though it was to put the egg in her and get it back out again), Hook who attacked her and Rumple since he's the reason Charming and Emma went after her.

Not to mention, Aurora (and presumably Philip, though we never see him) is actually in town, and her curse was broken after Maleficent was stuck in dragon form in Storybrooke, but Mal doesn't seem to care about that (and we don't get to see Aurora reacting to Mal being in town, which you'd think would be frightening to her, given that she's got a newborn and Mal cursed her because Mal was mad at Aurora's parents, so will Mal be coming after her child?).

Maleficent had enough history with everyone that she almost should have had her own arc. Her having been in town all along but not able to do anything was actually written into the story, so they wouldn't have had to contrive a reason/way for her to have come to town and they wouldn't have had to retcon her always being there. They'd just have needed to come up with a way to revive her, and then she had plenty of reason to want revenge on everyone. Meanwhile, we could have learned the backstory with Stefan and Briar Rose and Regina and Maleficent's "friendship." There was obviously some history there, based on season one, so inserting Regina into Maleficent's story wouldn't be entirely out of place. But when that's all we really get, I feel like they wasted one of the iconic Disney villains.

[andromeda331]

8 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Not to mention, Aurora (and presumably Philip, though we never see him) is actually in town, and her curse was broken after Maleficent was stuck in dragon form in Storybrooke, but Mal doesn't seem to care about that (and we don't get to see Aurora reacting to Mal being in town, which you'd think would be frightening to her, given that she's got a newborn and Mal cursed her because Mal was mad at Aurora's parents, so will Mal be coming after her child?).

That's true. Aurora should be freaking out Mal came after her mother, her husband, and her. There's no way she would be okay with Maleficent being anywhere near her let alone her husband and baby.

Quote

Maleficent had enough history with everyone that she almost should have had her own arc. Her having been in town all along but not able to do anything was actually written into the story, so they wouldn't have had to contrive a reason/way for her to have come to town and they wouldn't have had to retcon her always being there. They'd just have needed to come up with a way to revive her, and then she had plenty of reason to want revenge on everyone. Meanwhile, we could have learned the backstory with Stefan and Briar Rose and Regina and Maleficent's "friendship." There was obviously some history there, based on season one, so inserting Regina into Maleficent's story wouldn't be entirely out of place. But when that's all we really get, I feel like they wasted one of the iconic Disney villains.

They really did. Maleficent had a reason to hate and want revenge against Regina, Rumple, Charming, Emma and Hook and was finally free to get it. They had already establish that. It would have been easy to create a story around that adding in whatever happened with Stefan and Briar Rose along with becoming friends with Regina. Certainly more interesting then boring Lily or the eggnapping which still makes no sense.

[daxx]

Boring episode. I see no reason to ever rewatch it again. 

[tennisgurl]

Today, on a very special Once Upon a Time...

Regina has to give into peer pressure and start acting like a bad girl by...doing a shot! Oh my God, what a downward spiral she has gone down! And then the Queen drive recklessly and play a stupid game of chicken that could easily end up killing them all and ending all of this anyway! Oh the horror! What ever will they're parents say?!

Seriously, this episode is just embarrassing, its like watching a Lifetime Original Movie about underage drinking,except its about fully grown women who are supposed to be supervillains. I know that Rumple and the Queens are just messing with her, but how lame of an evil Queens party is that?! Oh no, they left some wine bottles out...guess the book club got a little wild before they went to the PTA...

Oh, and go Maleficent! Regina inspires her to destroy a whole kingdom and destroy the lives of Aurora and Philip, people she doesent even know! So awesome! Seriously, what the fuck is it with this show just assuming now that we automatically will cheer for any villain no matter what,as long as Regina is on her side? And what exactly did Briar Rose and Stephan do again? Knowing this show, they invited her to their wedding, but didnt give her the seat she wanted or some crap.Their kingdom being destroyed is totally justified because Mal got her murder groove back, and Regina can get closer to destroying yet another kingdom of people who did nothing wrong! Hurrah!

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh, and go Maleficent! Regina inspires her to destroy a whole kingdom and destroy the lives of Aurora and Philip, people she doesent even know! So awesome! Seriously, what the fuck is it with this show just assuming now that we automatically will cheer for any villain no matter what,as long as Regina is on her side? And what exactly did Briar Rose and Stephan do again? Knowing this show, they invited her to their wedding, but didnt give her the seat she wanted or some crap.Their kingdom being destroyed is totally justified because Mal got her murder groove back, and Regina can get closer to destroying yet another kingdom of people who did nothing wrong! Hurrah!

When you think about it, it's the same plot as the Anna/Charming episode, just evil instead of good.

[Shanna Marie]

On 3/4/2019 at 10:10 AM, tennisgurl said:

Regina has to give into peer pressure and start acting like a bad girl by...doing a shot! Oh my God, what a downward spiral she has gone down! And then the Queen drive recklessly and play a stupid game of chicken that could easily end up killing them all and ending all of this anyway!

You'd think they'd have tested Regina's loyalty by having her do something like ripping out a heart or throwing a fireball at an occupied building. It doesn't seem like they were even trying to pretend to be seeking redemption anymore, and that would have been a better way to test whether Regina was only pretending her redemption or whether she was trying to pretend with them. Self-destructive recklessness is hardly a sign of evil. They should have asked Regina to act like the Evil Queen she once was.

[Camera One]

51 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It doesn't seem like they were even trying to pretend to be seeking redemption anymore

So much for Rumple telling Cruella and Ursula in the premiere to fit in and play their roles of redeemed villains.  We didn't even get an episode of that.  

And on the other hand, the Queens of Darkness weren't even trying to do anything actually evil.  

Were they supposed to be evil, or were they supposed to be funny?  Were they Mistresses of Evil or extras on the set of "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" music video?  

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

So much for Rumple telling Cruella and Ursula in the premiere to fit in and play their roles of redeemed villains.  We didn't even get an episode of that.  

We just had them bitching about the service at Granny's.

And now I'm picturing Cruella and Ursula pretending to be working on redemption by going around trying to do good deeds and failing utterly, both because they don't really have any idea how to be good and because no one in town really wants much to do with them. (Though, again we have the problem of the townspeople seemingly being totally okay with Regina in their midst, even though she cursed them and did all kinds of horrible things to them, but then not being receptive to Ursula and Cruella, when we have no idea what they've done, but they don't seem to have been all that actively evil in the Enchanted Forest.)

Spoiler

And, as it comes up in the next episode, Ursula doesn't seem to have been all that bad and should have remembered how to do good. I don't think we saw enough of Ursula being evil to qualify her as a Queen of Darkness.

So, like Ursula or Cruella dragging an old lady across the street when the old lady doesn't want their help. Or picking up trash on the side of the road and going ballistic on litterers. If you were trying to pretend you were seeking redemption but didn't actually care about being redeemed and changing your ways, how would you act?

[KAOS Agent]

The problem with all of the later villains on this show is that they already have people in Storybrooke with a much darker and villainous history than anyone they bring in. Even the Queens of Darkness call out Regina for her multiple village slaughters. Cruella is a mean girl, but doesn't have any magic, so she's not much of a threat beyond that of the average person. Ursula has tentacles that hit and squeeze or something. Why is Ursula dangerous again? Maleficent is definitely the biggest threat of the three and she's been watered down. She hasn't shown any real interest in going after her many enemies other than Snowing. And she was shown in the past as not being on board with the use of the Dark Curse, which shows there is a line she doesn't want to cross.

Having Regina and Rumpel running around town diminishes every threat in town. With each new villain they'll tell you it's the worst villain ever and all I can think of is that this person better be carrying the nuclear launch codes or some sort of horrific biological warfare because that's about all that can top the massive body counts Regina and Rumpel have racked up over the years.

[Camera One]

13 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

With each new villain they'll tell you it's the worst villain ever and all I can think of is that this person better be carrying the nuclear launch codes or some sort of horrific biological warfare because that's about all that can top the massive body counts Regina and Rumpel have racked up over the years.

That's why Mother Gothel had to commit genocide on a global level. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Camera One

[Camera One]

Catching up on last week's rewatch episodes.

I was interested to see Maleficent's castle and more of her past, so there was some potential close to the beginning of the episode.  But it really devolved fast.  Once we started getting Regina's pep talks and cheerleading routines, I was done.  On paper, seeing an ex-villain who had given up was interesting.  But this didn't seem to be a much different Maleficent than Season 1 Episode 2.  I guess after every setback, her default is to mope? 

Spoiler

Shouldn't she focus on trying to get her child back?  Heck, why wouldn't she enact the Dark Curse to get to the baby.  Who would be the one she loved the most - the unicorn?  

In the present-day, Emma wringing her hands over Regina the entire episode was cringeworthy.  

I don't buy Rumple believing that Regina might still turn evil again.  

Spoiler

What was this "war" that was coming that Rumple ominously spoke of?  I don't remember a war in 4B.  And after he tricked Belle by impersonating Hook, it's annoying that Belle ever forgave him.  The whole "The Author left clues in his book to his identity" crap was super misleading... the only "clue" was the trick to get someone to free him from the prison, if I remember correctly.  I must say that August is one of my least favorite returning guest stars and he returns a lot more than others.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

On this show, war just consists of Charming/Mills/Stiltskin family melodrama. There are no armies, conquests, or military strategies involved. It's simply three family trees fighting over control of a small town in Maine.

[tennisgurl]

I almost forgot, we can add cruelty to animals to Regina's many, many winning personality traits. The poor horse will presumably sleep forever, essentially killing it, all because of Regina and her ridiculous hate on for a little girl. Classy lady, that Regina. 

[KingOfHearts]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I almost forgot, we can add cruelty to animals to Regina's many, many winning personality traits. The poor horse will presumably sleep forever, essentially killing it, all because of Regina and her ridiculous hate on for a little girl. Classy lady, that Regina. 

She also killed her own horse and took its heart for her curse.