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Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other TLC Families Thread)

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I guess my question is, how does training as missionary pilot differ from being well, a pilot? Is there a test? A special license?

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Even if he has to start out in virtual kindergarten, Israel will benefit. He'll see other kids who aren't his relatives and don't attend his church. He'll hear about other families and how they live. He will have his learning directed and assessed by a professional educator. My niece has been teaching first grade using Zoom the last couple months and I've been surprised at the amount of interaction there is between her and the kids and the kids with each other.

I think, in a way, a virtual class that Jill can watch with him and see what she missed with her substandard education may actually help both of them to adjust to the idea of a mainstream schooling. I would imagine it might also make Jill even angrier at the limitations her parents placed on her from her birth, but she's getting counseling, I think she can grow from it and become an advocate for a better education for her children.

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26 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

I guess my question is, how does training as missionary pilot differ from being well, a pilot? Is there a test? A special license?

My understanding is you still qualify as a pilot, but you are just focusing on piloting for missionary purposes versus commercial airlines or military, etc. I'm sure missionary pilot specific programs provide Bible and religious curriculum alongside the flight training, but I doubt his pilot license will look any different than any other pilot's (if he qualifies). 

 

Edited by Zella
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A husband in exchange for half a cow? What a deal! Poor girl should ask for a refund. Tim can’t support a dog much less a family.

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15 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

A husband in exchange for half a cow? What a deal! Poor girl should ask for a refund. Tim can’t support a dog much less a family.

She's better off taking 5 magic beans, IMO.

18 minutes ago, Zella said:

My understanding is you still qualify as a pilot, but you are just focusing on piloting for missionary purposes versus commercial airlines or military, etc. I'm sure missionary pilot specific programs provide Bible and religious curriculum alongside the flight training, but I doubt his pilot license will look any different than any other pilot's. 

 

The original program Tim was in out in Washington State included a lot of Bible study and religious training along with the aviation; so, in the context of their program; he would be both a pilot and a missionary I guess.

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3 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

She's better off taking 5 magic beans, IMO.

The original program Tim was in out in Washington State included a lot of Bible study and religious training along with the aviation; so, in the context of their program; he would be both a pilot and a missionary I guess.

Yes, I think if he had completed that program, he could rightfully call himself a missionary pilot. As is, if he ever does reach his goal, I'd think he would be more just a pilot who has decided to specialize in missionary work rather than a missionary and a pilot. 

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1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Or Tim would be the kind that flies to an off-limit remote island and get killed by poison arrows.

An island where no one speaks English.

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53 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

I guess my question is, how does training as missionary pilot differ from being well, a pilot? Is there a test? A special license?

You learn to be a bush pilot as well as a regular commercial pilot, mainly. You're going to land and take off in some places where there's no actual runway at all and definitely no tower or even any on-the-ground assistance.  You're likely to be transporting people for medical help, maybe entirely on your own.  And many also get more training in airplane mechanics and so on than other types of pilots do, because they're going to be working in very small outfits, located in remote places. Without all the resources most other commercial pilots have. 

Many but not all also get a degree that includes some form of theology or ministerial training. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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If you live in the Ohio (south-central region) or Kansas (near Leavensworth), be on the lookout for the big Maxwell wedding this weekend. I'll probably post about this again.  Jesse Maxwell, age 25, is marrying Anna Patrice Craig, age 19/20, allegedly on May 23rd. It's unclear how this will work with social distancing. 

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1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Here's my thinking: Just because Tim doesn't know any better than his parents do now doesn't mean that it's impossible for him to learn better over time, if he gradually gets exposed to some other voices....

I realize that it's much easier to constantly snark at psychologically, spiritually and mentally abused children like the Rodrigui if we just allow ourselves to assume that they're already hardened jerks like their parents and thus are, of course, utterly incapable of change in any way. 

But they're young people. And they've come from something awful. And they're still in something awful.......And as young people, with whole lives ahead of them, at least some of them are capable of change. Human nature allows that......And we don't have any idea which ones are capable of it or will get the chances that will allow and foster some change.

We know what their mother's taught them  to say. But we don't know what's inside of any of them -- what's inside that they absolutely can't say out loud and maybe can't even formulate for themselves at this point.....Some different ideas might be in there....

To write off the kids as always and everywhere destined to be just like their crappy parents -- just because it makes it easier for us to make jokes about them without feeling bad about it -- is a tremendous insult to everyone who's come out of a crap home and/or a sick belief system but turned out very very differently from the way we were raised to be, seems to me.

What I hear in my head in a heckuva lot of commentary about these kids is the sneering, laughing and disdain that I heard when I was a kid. Mostly but not entirely behind my back....but I had good ears....

Yet here's what happened: I started out as Timbits and Nurie. But I had a huge huge advantage over them. I got to go to school. 

And out of a very large high-school class, as an adult I went on to be at least one of the top-five achievers if not the very highest achiever of the bunch; to live in and thrive in an environment far more sophisticated and competitive than most of my classmates have even dreamed of; and to do exciting and valuable things that nobody would have imagined that anyone would let me do.  Because I was that mentally crippled weirdo in the weird clothes who had no friends and talked -- at best --  like an old lady. 

And I didn't shoot out of my background like a rocket the instant I turned 18. It took me many years...decades, even.  I crawled out of it, slowly, often still looking like a laughable ass while doing it.....But eventually it happened. 

Does that mean I no longer feel pissed off and depressed when I think of being a joke as kid? Mostly I just don't think of it. Because that way madness lies. But when I do think of it, yeah, it pisses me off and depresses me. And I certainly never go back to places where I'd be likely to see any of those people. Because they could have broken me just by the way they acted -- and of course the way they acted was normal and fine by all of our standards, so I couldn't expect them not to have done it......But I was lucky and found some other  influences, so the "normal" despising didn't break me, ultimately. 

 In my opinion, it's unfair for us to snark hard at the kids and, especially, to talk as if their fates are written in stone, just because of who their parents are. And, worse, to imply -- as we often do -- that their fates are in stone not just because of their genes and upbringing but because they are jerks personally irredeemably. When they aren't even in their mid-20s yet. When they're trapped by lack of money, lack of knowledge, and lack of other humans who could show them some other windows and other doors. 

But they still have time. Some of them may get lucky. They're may be a lot more piss and vinegar buried in some of them than we realize. These are very young and extremely vulnerable human beings. They didn't come up with the idea to be a show for anybody's entertainment.  (although I don't feel at all entertained by thinking that teens and 20-somethings have destinies that are already determined and bad....) Anyway,I plan to have some hope for all of them until they're at least 30....! 🙂

Thank you again for sharing your life experience and helping me to realize what these children/young adults are really going through.  It's so easy to be glib and laugh at them but they are struggling day to day to try to maneuver through an intentionally designed by someone they're supposed to love and is supposed to love them a really difficult life. 

Edited by wilsie
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I'm going to guess that Timmy is fine with his life and his religion, at least for now, and maybe forever. He may never look anywhere beyond the small circle the Rods play in. Everyone's picket fence is unique. 

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51 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm going to guess that Timmy is fine with his life and his religion, at least for now, and maybe forever. He may never look anywhere beyond the small circle the Rods play in. Everyone's picket fence is unique. 

I hope so.

 

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1 hour ago, Temperance said:

If you live in the Ohio (south-central region) or Kansas (near Leavensworth), be on the lookout for the big Maxwell wedding this weekend. I'll probably post about this again.  Jesse Maxwell, age 25, is marrying Anna Patrice Craig, age 19/20, allegedly on May 23rd. It's unclear how this will work with social distancing. 

I’m in Ohio and weddings were limited to 10 people very recently. Not sure if that’s changed. I know of one wedding that had a few more than 10 and someone called the police on them.

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13 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

 

Poor kid isn't to blame for the horrible "education" he got at home or for the Jill-style religious crap he was beaten and brainwashed into and that makes people despise him and sneer at him. I realize he has a million barriers to overcome, but at least he keeps trying to get a career and a life for himself, so there's some spark in there. 

 

 

I wonder how long it'll take for Timbits to understand what a piss poor excuse of an education he received from dear Mama 

 

6 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

I guess my question is, how does training as missionary pilot differ from being well, a pilot? Is there a test? A special license?

A missionary pilot has to hit a certain amount of savaged natives with bibles while landing .

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6 minutes ago, lianau said:

I wonder how long it'll take for Timbits to understand what a piss poor excuse of an education he received from dear Mama.

I think Timbits already knows. He's likely spent most of his matriculation in remedial classes. 

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If Tim is taking remedial classes and sticking to it, good for him. Around 25% of college freshmen have to take remedial courses, and after a semester or two, many give up. Even those classes, which aren't worth college credit, are expanding Tim's future prospects. 

Unlike many of the families on this thread, whose children only get Bible certificates through online unaccredited courses at best (like Tim's sisters have done), Tim has gone to on campus classes at real colleges in two states far from home, one of which was a secular school. He might have only lasted one or two semesters at each place, but I'm going to remain optimistic for him. 

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6 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

An island where no one speaks English.

That’s a given. 

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Well, we also know that Timbits' values were challenged in a religion class when, according to Tim, the professor threw the KJV in the trash (or slammed it on a table, memory is foggy). He thought the professor was slandering the KJV. Well, that was his story at any rate. 

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32 minutes ago, lianau said:

I wonder how long it'll take for Timbits to understand what a piss poor excuse of an education he received from dear Mama 

 

First day of school 

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7 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

First day of school 

I hope that is true and he doesn't think he's the problem.

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2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I hope that is true and he doesn't think he's the problem.

I think he will,though.Momma is perfect

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10 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Well, we also know that Timbits' values were challenged in a religion class when, according to Tim, the professor threw the KJV in the trash (or slammed it on a table, memory is foggy). He thought the professor was slandering the KJV. Well, that was his story at any rate. 

Or Jill’s story. I think she may have invented the tale out of nothing to explain why Tim left Moody. My guess is that she was enraged and offended that Moody actually expected her to pay Tim’s tuition and wouldn’t give him a free ride. I expect the administrators at Moody are used to dealing with pious grifters, although probably not one as SEVERELY persistent as Jill.

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14 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I’m in Ohio and weddings were limited to 10 people very recently. Not sure if that’s changed. I know of one wedding that had a few more than 10 and someone called the police on them.

The Stay at Home order which covered gatherings has expired.  Now we have recommendations which are not orders.  In his news conference yesterday, the governor specifically recommended against gatherings of 10 or more.  Since it seems that most fundies didn't follow the rules back when they were orders, I doubt they give a fig about recommendations.  The governor's recommendations are part of a plan called 'Ohioans protecting other Ohioans'.  We know that thinking of others is not a priority for a lot of these people,

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Just now, doodlebug said:

The Stay at Home order which covered gatherings has expired.  Now we have recommendations which are not orders.  In his news conference yesterday, the governor specifically recommended against gatherings of 10 or more.  Since it seems that most fundies didn't follow the rules back when they were orders, I doubt they give a fig about recommendations.  The governor's recommendations are part of a plan called 'Ohioans protecting other Ohioans'.  We know that thinking of others is not a priority for a lot of these people,

Well, we know Jesus didn't say anything about that! .... Oh, wait....

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On 5/19/2020 at 4:56 AM, doodlebug said:

I presume she has an infection, probably due to immunosuppression from the chemo.  While it's not exactly a side effect, it is a consequence of her treatment.  The fact that she is hospitalized indicates she doesn't have a run of the mill strep throat.  I am not sure what Anna Marie was expecting, but, from her prior posts, it seemed like she thought she'd found a way to get chemo with none of the risks.  I seem to recall the claim that this extra special chemo would prevent suppression of the immune system.  I guess not.

Anne Marie said on the Maxwell's blog that she thought her symptoms (fever, chills swollen lymph nodes) were a side affect of the medication she is taking to stimulate her white blood cells.  At the hospital, all her blood counts were very low. She has neutropenic infection and was started on antibiotics and is feeling better.

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someone on the caldwell fb page called them out with the stay home order being old testament and equated it with theHebrew's being told to stay in, blood on the door posts so the plague would pass.  it was interesting

no response from pastor caldwell, of course

name removed because i don't know how to black out a poster's name

"Having known several who have had the virus and people who have had loved ones die, I have mixed emotions. Mind you, I said emotions NOT allegiance. I believe Jesus is in control, I also believe He told the Hebrews to stay inside and apply the Blood to their door posts and pray while plague passed over and people who did not obey paid a price for it. I also believe that God expects us to use good sense. If people would follow the guidelines this will resolve quicker. I dont pretend to know what God's plan is in all of this with any certainty, but I do know He has a plan. My husband is immunosuppressed and we habe to thus be extra careful of this stuff. I dont think that is a lack of faith. We listen to the officials and we respect and pray for our fellow man. I have faith that God can maintain our Constitutional rights and restore the economy just as much as He can do anything else. This cant go on forever of course, it is uncomfortable and all of the mental health issues mentioned are real, we see it every day. People need God more than they need money and comfort. Many are finding Him that never slowed down long enough to hear Him calling them to Himself. It isnt all bad, families are rediscovering one another. Couples are renewing their relationships. There is good and bad to consider. But to say oh well it wont kill ME is selfishness and insensitive. We all can make it through this together with God's help. I want it over too!"

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Oh man at least Anne Marie went to the hospital and didn't continue to think that a fever was a side effect of a medication. Good grief. So she paused to make a blog post instead of taking care of this. Of course she did.

This child needs more education before she kills herself.

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Well, I have no idea where Jesse's wedding will be. 

Sarah posted this on May 4, 2020.

"Our Kansas stay-at-home has expired, and we’ve entered Phase 1 (out of 4). The state has guidelines and then each county decides beyond that what they should have in place. It’ll be interesting to see what life settles out to be over the coming months."

So either Kansas or Ohio could be for the wedding. Of course it's possible the wedding is postponed.

I hope Chris stays home. He is supposed to see Anna Marie if she leaves the hospital. How dumb are these people?  Chris may go to a wedding and then fly to see his four month old baby, and very sick wife. Even if he doesn't go, Anna and Mary will go and come back and help Chris with the kids. He will see them before he leaves. Of course this is the same man who left his  wife with cancer and six children to photograph an out-of-state wedding for a little bit of money in March 2020. 

Even crazier Chris and Anna Marie have 6 children. The oldest is almost 8 years old and the youngest is born January 2020.  And Chris is flying out "on Monday, May 25th (which happens to be the ten-year anniversary of the morning my parents told me he wanted to come out to meet me and pursue a possible courtship)!"

Ten years ago they weren't even courting! But they did get married later that year:

"On June 12, 2010, Christopher announced that he was courting Anna Hamilton. On July 13, 2010, Christopher announced that he an Anna were engaged. He proposed to her after her family visited for a week. Christopher married Anna Marie Hamilton on October 23, 2010, in Washington." Source:fundiewiki

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Erin Bates has an Instagram story up showing that Tori and Bobby came over to play some music.  Erin and Tori on violin, Bobby on piano, and Carson playing the harmonica.  

Tori's new baby is lying on the floor, with a bunch of toddlers milling around the crowded room.  Both parents have their backs to him. I guess Chad was filming, but wow, talk about a disaster waiting to happen.  Also, social distancing is out the window I guess.

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I wasn't sure where to put this, but I decided on this thread.

I'm not Y'all remember the Bontragers/Bowers. I've talked about them in the Sweet Fellowship thread. There are nine Bowers and ten Bontragers. Two of the Bontrager boys married the two adult Bowers sisters. Carson and Carolina are married with one child and one on the way. Joshua and Cassidy have 2 kids including a newborn.

The Bontragers and Bowers are great friends. The Bontragers have money and businesses although they continue to tour and make "music".  

The oldest Bowers boys Charlie and Carver (all Cs) and some of the Bontrager boys (Denver, Joshua, etc.) run a man camp for men and young boys called Mighty Men Camp. (Man Camp is the ministry run for older men by Dwain Swanson (Lauren Duggar's father) and Will Peters (Michelle Duggar's nephew).

You might remember early registeration was available for $167 and I found out it was raised to $197.  For what? Who knows?

Anyway they held it again. this year. In the middle of the pandemic. carverbowersmusic posted a picture from this year's Man Camp. Among attendees including lots of Bowers/Bontrager brothers, there was also a Duggar. I think it's Jackson sporting Justin Timberlake N*SYNC hair. Then also in the same picture a Caldwell. I don't know the boy in question, but he's clearly Kendra's brother. 

I would expect this kind of bs from Jill R, but this proves all fundies deserve each other. 

If anyone wants to post the picture it's carverbowersmusic, a bunch of boys together. Recognizably a Duggar and a Caldwell. 

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1 hour ago, Temperance said:

If anyone wants to post the picture it's carverbowersmusic, a bunch of boys together. Recognizably a Duggar and a Caldwell. 

 

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Look at the Man Campers jeans. What were those guys doing for the weekend, crawling on their knees?

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37 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Look at the Man Campers jeans. What were those guys doing for the weekend, crawling on their knees?

Sounds kinda kinky. 😉 And I'm off to the prayer closet. Lol

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53 minutes ago, riverblue22 said:

Which one is the Caldwell boy?

The kid in the red is a Caldwell. The Duggar (Jackson?)  is in the camo. I'm not sure who most of the other guys are although the middle guy in the Alabama sweatshirt is a Bontrager. I'm not sure if those are the others are all just the Bowers boys or only some of them are. 

There are 6 Bowers brothers although some are quite young. Not sure why the guys are wearing Alabama Crimson Tide sweatshirts. I don't think any of them have attened a real university.  They'd probably be as successful as Tim Rod. The Bowers are big grifters, too. 

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Now I find myself pondering the competitive regional nature of the fundie grift. Like, for the (mostly not well off) churches that will mostly sponsor the Rodruigii and Bowers and not, is there very not-Jesus-like competition or jealousy about who gets the grift or do they act like cable TV monopolies and stay regional? 🙂

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Okay, now this is fun! I can just picture JRod, upon hearing a rival grifter fundie family has just fellowshipped  tapped out her target church of the week...eyelashes flutter, voice drops, “Well I think it’s just so forgiving and sweet of you-all to have taken them into your hearts this way! So many people wouldn’t have, what with the scandals and all...bless their hearts.” “What scandals? You know, as a Christian woman SEVERELY serving Jesus, I just wouldn’t want to say! But I’m sure God has forgiven them...if they asked for forgiveness, of course...so I am searching my servant’s heart to do the same, in His name, amen.”

You don’t get between JRod and her marks.

 

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On 5/19/2020 at 2:00 PM, Oldernowiser said:

I guess my question is, how does training as missionary pilot differ from being well, a pilot? Is there a test? A special license?

You have to be able to fly the plane while simultaneously tossing bibles out of it. 

Higher training involves the tossing out of coloring books and Dum Dum lollipops along with the bibles. 

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3 hours ago, Barb23 said:

You have to be able to fly the plane while simultaneously tossing bibles out of it. 

Higher training involves the tossing out of coloring books and Dum Dum lollipops along with the bibles. 

Yes,that would require some coordination.I'm not sure they have it in them

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12 hours ago, Temperance said:

The kid in the red is a Caldwell. The Duggar (Jackson?)  is in the camo.

Jackson does not look like he wants to be touched. I bet the only time anyone touches him at the TTH is to correct him physically.

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6 hours ago, Barb23 said:

You have to be able to fly the plane while simultaneously tossing bibles out of it. 

Higher training involves the tossing out of coloring books and Dum Dum lollipops along with the bibles. 

And banana bread and cheap nail polish. 

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1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Jackson's bodylanguage makes me sad. 

I think he just has his hands shoved in his pockets. I don't think he's cringing or shying away. Certainly looks awkward though.

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He looks cold. But it's a little odd that all the other boys are comfortably putting their arms around those on either side, and Jackson is the only one with his arms down/ hands in his pockets.

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18 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

He looks cold. 

Exactly. He looks like he's in a different season than everybody else in the picture. They're out on a slightly chilly spring day and he's in the dead of winter, too lightly dressed. He even has dead-of-winter shoes on. 

Come to think of it, maybe he's just doing more sophisticated photo-bombing these days. Because his differences from everybody else in the picture definitely draw my eye to him. When I look at that picture, he's immediately the one I see. 😁

Could being a high-level photobomb artist eventually catapult Jackson to the top of the Duggarling social-media influencer pile?? His pictures might be interesting, unlike everybody else's! 

Stay tuned. He should be getting engaged in a couple of years. Then he'll get his own social media and we can find out. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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