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Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other TLC Families Thread)

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Meagan Forsyth Ballinger and her husband Robert "Bobby" Ballinger are expecting their third child in July. They have now announced they're having a boy and he will Robert Alan Ballinger III (Robert Alan Ballinger the third). To differentiate their son from his father and grandfather, they will call him "Bear" at least for now. 

Robert is a nice name, although very common and traditional. It was 71st most popular for boys in 2018 and it's one of those names that has been popular for a long time. Bear is an unusual nickname for Robert. Theodore is commonly nicknamed Ted or Teddy and is rising in popularity so I could see Bear used as nickname more often.  Anyway nicknames can be changed and he can go by something else when he's older.

This child is the first boy for Meagan and Bobby. They have two daughters. The oldest girl is named Harper and will turn 3 soon. The second girl is named Marlie and she will be 2 in September after her brother is born. Meagan and Bobby were married in November 2015 and will celebrate 5 years of marriage in November 2020. 

(In case, people don't remember Meagan is the sister of Joy Duggar's husband Austin.)

Edited by Temperance
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OK...they are now dangerously close to me. Ugh.

I hope they know that the spiral staircase at the lighthouse is a voyeur's dream. I always remind our guests to NOT wear a skirt or dress...and to wear shoes, not sandals (tripping hazard). Of course, they did none of the above. And that ridiculous denim circus tent skirt made another appearance.

Mr & Mrs Nutzy are dressed like matching lighthouses. Now I've seen it all. And I bet the volunteers got an earful of the lighthouse-related bible quotes.

ETA, because I just can't let it go: The Junior Nutzys are sitting together in a window sill that can barely accommodate one person, let alone two...and there's room to spare! Bet Mr Nutzy Sr got stuck.

Edited by drafan · Reason: They are so close by that I can smell the crazy.
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39 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

10 pictures, first is a video:

 

 

 

 

I don’t even know where to start with that post. 

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"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

Um, Jill? “Things that offend” is a pretty loose description...I wouldn’t get too cocky on that one. Just sayin’.

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1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

10 pictures, first is a video:

 

 

 

 

The first picture (or second on the slide ) is the perfect symbol for how fundies treat their adult children . Always as children , never as adults .

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1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

She really is bat crap crazy.

She’s the epitome of a Jesus freak, only worse.

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Well, at least the photo in the picture board (don't know what to call it) has David closer to the size of the children he and Jill stuff so much food into, they can't eat it all. 

Jill is ranting on her vacation. Must be something up. Are they still mooching off the Kellers? Maybe that's wearing thin on the hosts, and they're dropping hints about a distant church the Rods should visit. 

As for Tim, Facebook, and persecution, I'm sure Jill and David have been working on the kids' minds from the day they were born: We're persecuted because we are Christian, and really good Christians are persecuted, so we are martyrs like Jesus. If we weren't persecuted, God might not know how dedicated we are. 

All cults think the same way. Members don't see that their own extreme behavior turns other people away; believers serve whatever master they serve for whatever reward they expect to receive, and outsiders just don't understand how noble it all is. 

Misery loves company, so recruit, recruit, recruit.

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In the picture that has their heads stuck through the painting, Nathan looks like he’s copping a feel and Nurie looks like she’s enjoying it 😉

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Not on point to anything ....

Two summers ago, we took a road trip which included a visit to the wonderful Abraham Lincoln Museum in Springfield, IL.  While we were waiting for a short movie to start, a family came in with the children wearing shirts labeled Thing 1, Thing 2, etc., ala the Turpin children in CA.  The oldest, a boy who looked about 14, was a combination of miserable, yet defiant towards anyone who looked at him and his family. 

To me, that exemplifies the true abusiveness of fundie parenting. The Duggars with all their smiles are no different.

 

 

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2 hours ago, lianau said:

The first picture (or second on the slide ) is the perfect symbol for how fundies treat their adult children . Always as children , never as adults .

Yes. And it's how all kinds of abusive, control-freak parents treat their adult children. These people are drawn into their particular "religion" because of who they are and how they will treat people, not for any other reason, it seems to me.

I was close to 30 when I realized that, when I visited my family's house, I climbed the stairs in a modified all-fours position. Bent over, touching the steps ahead of me with my hands as I went up, in a modified toddler crawl. I'd never even noticed before that I did it, but when I did notice it I realized I always did it that way. Not on any other staircase in the world. Just theirs. Not even kidding. Responding in the way they brainwash you to respond isn't just in your brain, it's in your muscles and nerves and bones. 

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I can't imagine being that brainwashed.My parents tried to set me up with a family friend,someone who wasn't even my type,and I had none of it.I knew it wouldn't work and I would never be happy,so my bf and I eloped,when they wouldn't give us a wedding.Some things in life you just have to say NO to 

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29 minutes ago, sondraK said:

I can't imagine being that brainwashed.My parents tried to set me up with a family friend,someone who wasn't even my type,and I had none of it.I knew it wouldn't work and I would never be happy,so my bf and I eloped,when they wouldn't give us a wedding.Some things in life you just have to say NO to 

Much like me,  you are a stronger person than most.  I married a "used" (divorced) man 40 years ago.

Unfortunately, too often,  children are shamed by  immediate family and friends to think that honoring parents wishes is the ONLY way to live.  Even without religion being a part of this nonsense.

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6 hours ago, ginger90 said:

10 pictures, first is a video:

 

 

 

 

Nathan looked a little less ugly in motion. 

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On 2/16/2020 at 1:38 PM, Churchhoney said:

Please don't pitch a show idea for "Conservative Evangelical Swap."

They'd all volunteer because they want to be breakout stars. 

Note: Not 'Fundie Swap." Jer's not a fundie. 

In what world is Jer not a fundie??? The only thing he has that the Rods don't is a bit of class and world experience from having attended college. He's fundie to the core, make no mistake. It's refreshing that he doesn't buy into the anti birth control, pants are evil views, but look up John MacArthur, the pastor who founded the seminary Jeremy attends.

Jeremy and Jinger solidly believe in wifely submission, that all are going to hell except those who accept Christ, that homosexuality and feminism are sins, and that women's bodily autonomy when it comes to reproductive rights is nonexistent. They more than qualify as fundies. People seem to focus too much on the fact that Jinger now wears pants.

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On 2/20/2020 at 10:41 PM, sondraK said:

Perhaps the Rods weren't invited to the wedding? It may have been small,and or they might not have known they were going to visit then.I can see Nurie being invited,since Nathan would be,but not the rest of them.And it seems Jill is kissing up hard to the Kellers,so I can see her not crashing for that reason

A divorced woman, who clearly has rejected the rules she grew up with, wearing a decidedly low cut and revealing wedding dress? The Rods wouldn't want to get anywhere near that, although it sounds like it's also true that it was a small affair. I'm glad the Kellers still attended though.

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2 hours ago, becca3891 said:

 

A divorced woman, who clearly has rejected the rules she grew up with, wearing a decidedly low cut and revealing wedding dress? The Rods wouldn't want to get anywhere near that, although it sounds like it's also true that it was a small affair. I'm glad the Kellers still attended though.

It's great they seem not ot have shunned their 'rebellious' children, but they refused to get Anna away from Sex Pest or even more importantly they grandchildren away from Sex Pest. I'm sure if mom and dad had been as supportive as her brother, she may have left him. 

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11 hours ago, sondraK said:

I can't imagine being that brainwashed.My parents tried to set me up with a family friend,someone who wasn't even my type,and I had none of it.I knew it wouldn't work and I would never be happy,so my bf and I eloped,when they wouldn't give us a wedding.Some things in life you just have to say NO to 

But were you subjected to a concerted brainwashing routine, every day of your life, from birth? Complete with various kinds of physical torture? Because I'm pretty sure the Rods were -- and are.

That's a hard thing to throw off -- because, for one thing, when it happens to you, in a way you aren't even aware of it. You certainly aren't aware that it's very unusual....and one of the things you're brainwashed to believe, of course, is that the brainwashing regime is righteous and for your own benefit! And most people in situations like this are also kept quite isolated from other people, at least when it comes to being able to converse with others or observe what their actual private lives are like and compare them to yours. 

On the other hand, if you went through this, too, then you're one of the very very very lucky ones with the mental makeup to escape from that and at an early age! I was, too (although with lots of leftover crap!). ...

But I have family members who weren't able. They just weren't able. So it's really hard for me to say that it's the fault of kids who don't even understand that it's happened to them or, if they do undertand, simply can't get loose from it.

For one thing, thoughts of mutiny make some people feel just way too guilty. I've always chalked up most of my own ability to leave to my being the most selfish person in my family. I was able to walk away from other people because I was fixated on what wanted. ... And while that's helpful then, in the greater course of your life, extreme selfishness isn't a virtue! 

Of course, in the case of Nurie, she's almost certainly going to be much much better off married to Nathan than she would be stuck in her parents' house as an unwanted spinster! So, really, in the relationship respect, I don't think she's even had something she should say no to. She's definitely doing the right thing by saying to Nathan Yes yes yes!, I think. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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5 hours ago, becca3891 said:

In what world is Jer not a fundie??? The only thing he has that the Rods don't is a bit of class and world experience from having attended college. He's fundie to the core, make no mistake. It's refreshing that he doesn't buy into the anti birth control, pants are evil views, but look up John MacArthur, the pastor who founded the seminary Jeremy attends.

Jeremy and Jinger solidly believe in wifely submission, that all are going to hell except those who accept Christ, that homosexuality and feminism are sins, and that women's bodily autonomy when it comes to reproductive rights is nonexistent. They more than qualify as fundies. People seem to focus too much on the fact that Jinger now wears pants.

The Calvinist group of which he is a part is not, theologically speaking, a fundie group. They never have been -- either by their own definition or the theological definition of anyone else. That has to do with the differences between the way they interpret the bible and the way IFB people, for instance, interpret the Bible. That's what the word "fundie" is about. There are today some kinda-Calvinist fundies, apparently, although I don't really know what that means. But MacArthur's crew are not and never have been among them.  You can look it up. 

I mentioned that because, often around here, when somebody lumps Jer with the fundies, somebody then comes along and (correctly) corrects them and uses the term they and others accept for them -- "conservative Evangelical." (although that term can get you in trouble too, because, as others have pointed out to me when I've used it, there are other conservative churches that are crazier-about-itty-bitty dumb details...but really they're just more conservative...)

Anyway, Jer and his particular Calvinist mentors, like MacArthur, absolutely share all the social attributes and ideas of fundies that you mention here. I totally agree with you about that. However, in the "theology and interpretation of the Bible" sense, they are not fundies. I was just trying to head off the inevitable "he's not a fundie" criticism I figured would be coming if I used that term.

I wasn't in any way trying to say that he doesn't hold, embrace, serve and adore every one of the noxious beliefs that you point to. .... In fact, I'm pretty sure I harp on Jer's noxious beliefs and point them out more than just about anybody here! Often on a daily basis! 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Can't Jill just shut up and enjoy the lighthouse for what it is? My husband and I were there a few years ago. We didn't go in that light house; it was too expensive. How did either set of parents afford all those tickets? I'd like to know. Nurie's hair is so dull and dry. It looks awful. She needs a real chop off job and some heavy, deep conditioning...and often.

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52 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

But were you subjected to a concerted brainwashing routine, every day of your life, from birth? Complete with various kinds of physical torture? Because I'm pretty sure the Rods were -- and are.

That's a hard thing to throw off -- because, for one thing, when it happens to you, in a way you aren't even aware of it. You certainly aren't aware that it's very unusual....and one of the things you're brainwashed to believe, of course, is that the brainwashing regime is righteous and for your own benefit! And most people in situations like this are also kept quite isolated from other people, at least when it comes to being able to converse with others or observe what their actual private lives are like and compare them to yours. 

On the other hand, if you went through this, too, then you're one of the very very very lucky ones with the mental makeup to escape from that and early age! I was, too (although with lots of leftover crap!). ...

But I have family members who weren't able. They just weren't able. So it's really hard for me to say that it's the fault of kids who don't even understand that it's happened to them or, if they do, simply can't get loose from it.

For one thing, thoughts of mutiny make some people feel just way too guilty. I've always chalked up most of my own ability to leave to my being the most selfish person in my family. I was able to walk away from other people because I was fixated on what wanted. ... And while that's helpful then, the greater course of your life, extreme selfishness isn't a virtue! 

Of course, in the case of Nurie, she's almost certainly going to be much much better off married to Nathan than she would be stuck in her parents' house as an unwanted spinster! So, really, in the relationship respect, I don't think she's even had something in the relationship realm that she should say no to. She's definitely doing the right thing by saying to Nathan Yes yes yes!, I think. 

And Nurthan look like they like each other and maybe a good relationship will come from that.

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Wonder what JillR thought of the huge Catholic cross that dominates the city skyline? 

I used to live in that city. Rodrigui being there is nauseating. 

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Just now, galaxychaser said:

In Jill’s mind if a woman has premarital sex and wears pants, she is going to hell?

I guess not if she repents and is saved. But only if she repents to Jill's Jesus. 🙄

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11 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

The Calvinist group of which he is a part is not, theologically speaking, a fundie group. They never have been -- either by their own definition or the theological definition of anyone else. That has to do with the differences between the way they interpret the bible and the way IFB people, for instance, interpret the Bible. That's what the word "fundie" is about. There are today some kinda-Calvinist fundies, apparently, although I don't really know what that means. But MacArthur's crew are not and never have been among them.  You can look it up. 

I mentioned that because, often around here, when somebody lumps Jer with the fundies, somebody then comes along and (correctly) corrects them and uses the term they and others accept for them -- "conservative Evangelical." (although that term can get you in trouble too, because, as others have pointed out to me when I've used it, there are other conservative churches that are crazier-about-itty-bitty dumb details...but really they're just more conservative...)

Anyway, Jer and his particular Calvinist mentors, like MacArthur, absolutely share all the social attributes and ideas of fundies that you mention here. I totally agree with you about that. However, in the "theology and interpretation of the Bible" sense, they are not fundies. I was just trying to head off the inevitable "he's not a fundie" criticism I figured would be coming if I used that term.

I wasn't in any way trying to say that he doesn't hold, embrace, serve and adore every one of the noxious beliefs that you point to. .... In fact, I'm pretty sure I harp on Jer's noxious beliefs and point them out more than just about anybody here! Often on a daily basis! 

 

I guess we just have different interpretations of what fundamentalist means. I've always thought, and have seen definitions to back it up, that it simply means a rejection of theology that takes a less than literal approach to biblical interpretation. Fundamentalists believe the entire bible was inspired by god and should be literally interpreted and its rules followed today. Calvinist Presbyterians and conservative Baptists all completely agree on this.

I grew up under MacArthur Calvinism, so I'm very familiar with it. The whole predestination thing is different from what Baptists believe, but that's about it. Calvinists still believe Christians are supposed to evangelize and try to lead others to accept Christ to avoid hellfire.

This is interesting and I value your opinion! I'm actually fascinated because it never occurred to me that anyone would question whether my former denomination was fundie or not.

 

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MacArthur's Calvinism and the Southern Baptist Convention are commonly known as conservative evangelical problematic as any categorizing can be.  Fundies are even "fundier" going with things like King James only, absolutely literal interpretation of the Bible, and some other weird to many of us things.  What makes them fundie isn't their political or sociological views although those are frequently reprehensible.

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JillR, the Duggars, the Bates, etc say they follow KJV literally? Offer alcohol to those who are suffering and keep your mouth shut or you'll look worse than a fool they certainly don't follow. And Leviticus 26:29?!??

I really don't understand these families! (or that last verse)

"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts." - Proverbs 31:6 

“Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.” – Proverbs 29:20

"And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." - Leviticus 26:29

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They SAY they believe the KJV literally, but then they cherry pick their actions.

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12 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

But were you subjected to a concerted brainwashing routine, every day of your life, from birth? Complete with various kinds of physical torture? Because I'm pretty sure the Rods were -- and are.

That's a hard thing to throw off -- because, for one thing, when it happens to you, in a way you aren't even aware of it. You certainly aren't aware that it's very unusual....and one of the things you're brainwashed to believe, of course, is that the brainwashing regime is righteous and for your own benefit! And most people in situations like this are also kept quite isolated from other people, at least when it comes to being able to converse with others or observe what their actual private lives are like and compare them to yours. 

On the other hand, if you went through this, too, then you're one of the very very very lucky ones with the mental makeup to escape from that and at an early age! I was, too (although with lots of leftover crap!). ...

But I have family members who weren't able. They just weren't able. So it's really hard for me to say that it's the fault of kids who don't even understand that it's happened to them or, if they do undertand, simply can't get loose from it.

For one thing, thoughts of mutiny make some people feel just way too guilty. I've always chalked up most of my own ability to leave to my being the most selfish person in my family. I was able to walk away from other people because I was fixated on what wanted. ... And while that's helpful then, in the greater course of your life, extreme selfishness isn't a virtue! 

Of course, in the case of Nurie, she's almost certainly going to be much much better off married to Nathan than she would be stuck in her parents' house as an unwanted spinster! So, really, in the relationship respect, I don't think she's even had something she should say no to. She's definitely doing the right thing by saying to Nathan Yes yes yes!, I think. 

No,can't say that I was subjected to that kind of extremism;I went to public school,community college and have worked real jobs.

Otoh,I was still subjected to emotional,mental and some degree of physical abuse.I was raised Methodist,and while it's conservative somewhat,it isn't extreme in the way that fundie/patriarchal religion is.

I'm glad I was strong enough to overcome,though!

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7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

JillR, the Duggars, the Bates, etc say they follow KJV literally? Offer alcohol to those who are suffering and keep your mouth shut or you'll look worse than a fool they certainly don't follow. And Leviticus 26:29?!??

I really don't understand these families! (or that last verse)

"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts." - Proverbs 31:6 

“Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.” – Proverbs 29:20

"And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." - Leviticus 26:29

I don't like being put in the position of defending the KJV, but 2 of those verses are taken out of a wider context, so I am not sure it's really fair to use them as examples of what's wrong with taking the KJV literally.

Proverbs 31:6 is part of a broader point that those in power should not be drunkards and should leave it for the more desperate and is not a literal command to give it to the dying. I think that's clear even in the language of the KJV.

The verse from Leviticus is also part of a broader prophecy about judgment--as in this nasty shit is what you will do as a punishment--and the stuff about cannibalism is part of it and not a command.

Again, I'm not saying this as a defense of the KJV. I have seen a lot of very ignorant people not understand any of it, and I find that very problematic. But I don't think randomly pulling verses from it to make that point really works anymore than what the Duggars and their pals do.

I would find it more interesting for them to explain why Jesus makes water out of wine if alcohol is so universally awful. O:-)

And yes Proverbs 29:20 is a good one to lay on them. As is pretty much any verse about pride. 😄 

Edited by Zella
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21 hours ago, fonfereksglen said:

Much like me,  you are a stronger person than most.  I married a "used" (divorced) man 40 years ago.

Unfortunately, too often,  children are shamed by  immediate family and friends to think that honoring parents wishes is the ONLY way to live.  Even without religion being a part of this nonsense.

I'm glad you were strong,too.Everyone should be able to choose whom they love and marry,not have it dictated to them by family

15 hours ago, becca3891 said:

 

A divorced woman, who clearly has rejected the rules she grew up with, wearing a decidedly low cut and revealing wedding dress? The Rods wouldn't want to get anywhere near that, although it sounds like it's also true that it was a small affair. I'm glad the Kellers still attended though.

Me,too

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4 minutes ago, Zella said:

I don't like being put in the position of defending the KJV, but 2 of those verses are taken out of a wider context, so I am not sure it's really fair to use them as examples of what's wrong with taking the KJV literally.

Proverbs 31:6 is part of a broader point that those in power should not be drunkards and should leave it for the more desperate and is not a literal command to give it to the dying. I think that's clear even in the language of the KJV.

The verse from Leviticus is also part of a broader prophecy about judgment--as in this nasty shit is what you will do as a punishment--and the stuff about cannibalism is part of it and not a command.

Again, I'm not saying this as a defense of the KJV. I have seen a lot of very ignorant people not understand any of it, and I find that very problematic. But I don't think randomly pulling verses from it to make that point really works anymore than what the Duggars and their pals do.

I would find it more interesting for them to explain why Jesus makes water out of wine if alcohol is so universally awful. O:-)

And yes Proverbs 29:20 is a good one to lay on them. As is pretty much any verse about pride. 😄 

They brag that they take the Bible literally, not interpret it it. And I get that context is important, yet folks don't eat their children (or any humans) as a punishment or otherwise. Just as Jesus turning water to wine (only after the wine ran out) or whether those in power should not get drunk and save the alcohol for the suffering, all of the families say alcohol should never be consumed.

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1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

They brag that they take the Bible literally, not interpret it it. And I get that context is important, yet folks don't eat their children (or any humans) as a punishment or otherwise. Just as Jesus turning water to wine (only after the wine ran out) or whether those in power should not get drunk and save the alcohol for the suffering, all of the families say alcohol should never be consumed.

I understand all that, but I just feel like there are better verses to illustrate that point. They are not actually being commanded to do either of those things, so it just strikes me as pointless to evoke those verses as evidence they aren't keeping the KJV. 

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1 minute ago, Zella said:

I understand all that, but I just feel like there are better verses to illustrate that point. They are not actually being commanded to do either of those things, so it just strikes me as pointless to evoke those verses as evidence they aren't keeping the KJV. 

To me speaking out against what's in the Bible as acceptable - alcohol, clearly illustrates they make up their own rules. And I believe Kelly B actually said it wasn't even wine, that it was grape juice.

And I wasn't under the impression that Fundies only followed commands from the Bible and nothing else.

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29 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

To me speaking out against what's in the Bible as acceptable - alcohol, clearly illustrates they make up their own rules. And I believe Kelly B actually said it wasn't even wine, that it was grape juice.

And I wasn't under the impression that Fundies only followed commands from the Bible and nothing else.

I get your point about alcohol, but I'm not entirely sure how one is supposed to follow something that isn't a command? There's a range of material in the Bible, ranging from prophecy to poetry to commands, and I really have no clue how one is supposed to follow something that is clearly not a command. If something is a prophecy about people who are not you--yes, that exists in the Bible--what are you supposed to follow there?

There is literally nothing to follow in a verse about how you will eat your children as a punishment from God because it is not telling you to eat your children. So . . . I am at a loss for how not eating your children is in contradiction of that. Like, the entire point is it would be a terrible thing to do. That's why you are threatened with it as punishment and not being told to fry little Bobby and Susie up.  

Again, I'm not saying there aren't valid criticisms one can make of fundies on the general point about them picking and choosing Bible verses to follow. But I don't think doing the same thing and seizing on something that is not a command and then insisting that they're not following it to make a point is very effective. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. 

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36 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

To me speaking out against what's in the Bible as acceptable - alcohol, clearly illustrates they make up their own rules. And I believe Kelly B actually said it wasn't even wine, that it was grape juice.

And I wasn't under the impression that Fundies only followed commands from the Bible and nothing else.

So they know there is abortion in the Bible?

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13 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

But were you subjected to a concerted brainwashing routine, every day of your life, from birth? Complete with various kinds of physical torture? Because I'm pretty sure the Rods were -- and are.

That's a hard thing to throw off -- because, for one thing, when it happens to you, in a way you aren't even aware of it. You certainly aren't aware that it's very unusual....and one of the things you're brainwashed to believe, of course, is that the brainwashing regime is righteous and for your own benefit! And most people in situations like this are also kept quite isolated from other people, at least when it comes to being able to converse with others or observe what their actual private lives are like and compare them to yours. 

On the other hand, if you went through this, too, then you're one of the very very very lucky ones with the mental makeup to escape from that and at an early age! I was, too (although with lots of leftover crap!). ...

But I have family members who weren't able. They just weren't able. So it's really hard for me to say that it's the fault of kids who don't even understand that it's happened to them or, if they do undertand, simply can't get loose from it.

For one thing, thoughts of mutiny make some people feel just way too guilty. I've always chalked up most of my own ability to leave to my being the most selfish person in my family. I was able to walk away from other people because I was fixated on what wanted. ... And while that's helpful then, in the greater course of your life, extreme selfishness isn't a virtue! 

Of course, in the case of Nurie, she's almost certainly going to be much much better off married to Nathan than she would be stuck in her parents' house as an unwanted spinster! So, really, in the relationship respect, I don't think she's even had something she should say no to. She's definitely doing the right thing by saying to Nathan Yes yes yes!, I think. 

I consider fundie to be anyone who thinks their religion should be imposed on others especially their own children. To me fundie means religious control. I grew up with people who were inconsistently/borderline fundie what I call fundie-lite. They weren't necessarily evangelical, but they used their religion to impose their rules and hurt people. 

I think if people want to call themselves ex-fundie, because they raised by people who used religion to hurt other people and control their kids then they should be able to. I accept and believe that fundamentalism should encompass a wider set of beliefs than just a cult. 

Edited by Temperance
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4 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

More posts from Geriatric Valentine's Day. 

 

That 4th pic of Jill. I just. I don't have words. 🤣

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1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Josie Bates has launched a new business. https://theeffortlessbeautyco.com/

It actually looks pretty good, but thoughts on marketing hair and makeup only for weddings? Particularly, only the bride and bridesmaids? I would expand that out to include formal dances and other dress-up social events of all types, as well as the mother of the bride, mother of the groom, etc.

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In photo 5, Jill looks like a dancing Soviet milkmaid circa 1975. 

Nurie? in the same photo looks like an example on a PSA about eating disorders. 

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