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Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

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1 minute ago, Gemma Violet said:

Could someone refresh my memory on what this is about.  I vaguely recall something being said about Michelle claiming to have a back problem and so therefore couldn't take care of the household, but where did the "missing" come from?  Did she have back surgery or something?  Did she say she has a missing back muscle?  How is that possible?

Someone else may want to elaborate more, but she claimed to have a "missing" back muscle (?) so she was unable to pick up any of her children after they turned 6 months old. *shrug*

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1 hour ago, Gemma Violet said:

Could someone refresh my memory on what this is about.  I vaguely recall something being said about Michelle claiming to have a back problem and so therefore couldn't take care of the household, but where did the "missing" come from?  Did she have back surgery or something?  Did she say she has a missing back muscle?  How is that possible?

It's the reason she gave why should couldn't pic up children. She never used it to claim she couldn't take care of the house

But yeah, not possible - at least how she portrays it.

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I believe Michelle said she was born without a certain back muscle, thus could not pick-up her kids.

Her other back muscles seemed to sustain 19 pregnancies just fine though. Funny how that works.

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I didn't know high school cheerleaders could be missing any muscles.  Didn't they have to make pyramids and such?

Grain of salt time.  Sounds like a piss-poor excuse.  

 

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9 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Mechelle seems to think she (or her family) are being persecuted. 👀 She recommends this book.

 

 

Screenshot_20211121-164125.png

Well, the Feds are going after her famous Christian son. 😁

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13 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Mechelle seems to think she (or her family) are being persecuted. 👀 She recommends this book.

 

 

image.png.4ef702389bad87d09511f30c332dddf9.png

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How exactly are they being “persecuted?” Can anyone explain this? If they think they’re persecuted, they should look at how Muslims and Jews, among others, get treated. 

2 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I think this also goes back to the cancellation of CO.

THE DUGGARS WILL NOT BE CANCELLED!!!!111 😂

Their cancellation had nothing to do with their religion, FFS. 

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9 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Mechelle seems to think she (or her family) are being persecuted. 👀 She recommends this book.

 

 

Screenshot_20211121-164125.png

I don't think they took the cancellation of their show as calmly as they pretended to. Between this and the Branson project, I'm starting to think they really took the idea of the show being a crucial mission for the Lord seriously as heck. And now that it's been proven the nation is ungodly enough to "cancel" that precious mission, they're determined to fight back in any way they can.......

Maybe it's even fed some delusions about the whole Josh thing or that the last days are upon us or something. With Jim Bob allegedly spending $2.5 million on what looks to be a venue for a related mission, I wouldn't be surprised if they're envisioning themselves as leaders of some kind of nutty crusade. That kind of impulse has been resurgent several times over the course of their marriage, it seems. I wouldn't be surprised if it's back again. 

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17 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

 

Their cancellation had nothing to do with their religion, FFS. 

I believe there's a simmering undercurrent in JB's and M's minds that says everything has to do with their religion...... And look how we always notice that Jessa and Bin, for instance, talk about the Old Testament constantly with little kids who can't possibly understand it......And something of that has been true of JB and M as well.......They may let other influences in from time to time, but they hang with only people zealous in the same direction, and paranoia can easily build up when you're in a bubble like that...

JB and M have had fairly lucky lives, and they've also seen some consequences from being really open about their beliefs, so at times they seem to have gone quiet about them.......But their focus on it does return from time to time.........Like in Meeechelle's robo-calls and other things......And, I believe, in their forays into having home churches when they apparently felt that other churches didn't fully accommodate their godliness or whatever......

And now there have been rumors about Anna, for example, blaming anti-Christian forces and Satan for attacking Josh with false accusations and such.........It seems possible that at least something like that is wholly or partly true.......But Anna isn't the only person among the Duggars who's spent a long time among people who believe they may be the only really godly people left in the world............I think it's also possible that the remnants of the Gothard cult have ben talking a lot more recently about how they've been ripped apart by a bunch of woke apostate women (and a few men, I guess) and have started looking hard for ways to pull themselves together and fight back...... I think Katie Nakatsu's father and stepmother moving to Arkansas might even a sign of that kind of thing going on.....Maybe they're feeling that our liberal society is really what brought their group down and now they want to band together and bring it back....

With the pressure that's on them this year -- the show cancellation and the Josh thing -- I don't think it'd be very surprising if JB and M were feeling they're under attack.... And in the back of the minds, they're even expecting attacks because they do have some End Times thinking in their mix........ 

When you start seeing paranoid patterns, you tend to see more and more of them....And their vanity's taken some hits too, this year.....

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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JB has a statement/rant out about the "woke left" and "cancel culture" trying to define him and his family - The Hill has a story about it.

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8 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

JB has a statement/rant out about the "woke left" and "cancel culture" trying to define him and his family - The Hill has a story about it.

Holy shit. The current culture has emboldened his sorry ass.

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54 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

JB has a statement/rant out about the "woke left" and "cancel culture" trying to define him and his family - The Hill has a story about it.

Oy.

Of course when you think about it, they're just using the current language to express their same old claims --Back before they had this language, they were outspoken about how local stores and restaurants selling alcohol were destroying their family and all others ..... And then gay marriage was out to destroy all Christian parents and their children.....and everything good in our society..... 

Those were the trendy words then. These are trendy words now. .... But it's always been a matter of the satanic forces (like me!) destroying them and their marriage and their precious babies, threatening their very lives and the health of our nation! 

According to them, they've been under mortal threat ever since they turned into super-Christians, I think! 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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35 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

JB has a statement/rant out about the "woke left" and "cancel culture" trying to define him and his family - The Hill has a story about it.

I feel like that statement won’t age well. 

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2 hours ago, crazy8s said:

JB has a statement/rant out about the "woke left" and "cancel culture" trying to define him and his family - The Hill has a story about it.

I saw it on his site. Disgusting and crazy Q levels of delusion. I hope Josh’s lawyers bankrupt the MF. 
Like many others, they think their “god” is the only “right” one. There are hundreds of different “gods” worshipped around the world. Christians aren’t the persecuted ones here. 

 

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Between bankrolling Smuggar (6 figures), buying the Tony Orlando Theater (2.5M), and other pressing financial matters, one wonders how much he actually has in his coffers? Is he really sitting on something like $10M?

Edited by emmawoodhouse
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1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Jim Bob and Meeechelle are self-centered jerks, and being on television hasn't helped them with this tendency. If they start another church of their own they should call it Jerks for Jesus. 

Bringing this over from the Jed! and Bunkmate topic.

I've always wondered about how JB the jerk got along with the powers that be in IBLP/ATI. As soon as they got on TV and became famous, the Duggars were a big deal among the IBLP faithful, but I don't know that JB ever held any position in the organization. Yet Gil Bates was - and maybe still is? - on the IBLP board of directors.

Possibilities: (1) JB wouldn't find the time for any activity that didn't make him more children or more money, or that was something he couldn't be in 100% control of. (2) He's a jerk who doesn't work well with others, and nobody at IBLP wanted to have him around except to draw paying audiences at conferences.

Hmm. Maybe, all of the above?

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12 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Between bankrolling Smuggar (6 figures), buying the Tony Orlando Theater (2.5M), and other pressing financial matters, one wonders how much he actually has in his coffers? Is he really sitting on something like $10M?

And if he is, wouldn't it be nice if he spent some of it helping his kids go to trade school and college. He won't be around to supply "jobs" for everybody forever, and even if they "follow him into his business" when he finally croaks off ascends to assume his golden crown they'll need some skills even to understand the various grifts and frauds involved in the Duggar engerprises and either successfully continue them or switch the business to a more ethical approach run the family concern.

You'd think it'd be useful for his sons to earn certification to perform trades at an advanced level instead of just being licensed to do stuff like glue down bathroom tiles. But it really seems to me as if JB and Meeech are so greedy of their positions at the top of the heap that they can't stand the idea of any of the kids surpassing them in anything........

Note, for example, Meeechelle's apparent absolute dereliction of her duty to help all those they shuttle grimly onto the stay-at-home-wife-and-mother track to keep house or cook. That could just be laziness, of course. But JB seems to have done no better by his sons. And yet he insists that they staff his businesses. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Possibilities: (1) JB wouldn't find the time for any activity that didn't make him more children or more money, or that was something he couldn't be in 100% control of. (2) He's a jerk who doesn't work well with others, and nobody at IBLP wanted to have him around except to draw paying audiences at conferences.

I think it's probably both! You have to be a team player to be an effective board member. Not saying Gil himself is actually effective, but for the organization I do some volunteering for, we've had a lot of talks among ourselves about how some people are not born to be put on boards. And holy shit Jim Bob "My way or The Highway" Duggar would be an absolute nightmare to have as a board member. I also strongly suspect that the idea of working with other people is not interesting to him, so maybe both sides breathed a sigh of relief when he didn't end up in any real position of responsibility. LOL

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28 minutes ago, dariafan said:

I want to see Michelle’s face when she gets to judgment day and she is told her mowing in a bikini had nothing to do with anything 

I’d pay $10 to watch Michelle mow a lawn in a bikini (today). $20 if she wears her black orthopedic shoes! 
 

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4 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Bringing this over from the Jed! and Bunkmate topic.

I've always wondered about how JB the jerk got along with the powers that be in IBLP/ATI. As soon as they got on TV and became famous, the Duggars were a big deal among the IBLP faithful, but I don't know that JB ever held any position in the organization. Yet Gil Bates was - and maybe still is? - on the IBLP board of directors.

Possibilities: (1) JB wouldn't find the time for any activity that didn't make him more children or more money, or that was something he couldn't be in 100% control of. (2) He's a jerk who doesn't work well with others, and nobody at IBLP wanted to have him around except to draw paying audiences at conferences.

Hmm. Maybe, all of the above?

Also wouldn't that be a job? I'm guessing he would have tasks to do, be there at a certain time and also answer to a boss.

Edited by Future Cat Lady
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1 hour ago, dariafan said:

I want to see Michelle’s face when she gets to judgment day and she is told her mowing in a bikini had nothing to do with anything 

But the way she " protected " her children is another matter and I included Josh in that. They failed him also.

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18 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

How exactly are they being “persecuted?” Can anyone explain this? If they think they’re persecuted, they should look at how Muslims and Jews, among others, get treated. 

Their cancellation had nothing to do with their religion, FFS. 

They are NOT being persecuted.  But someone is being PROSECUTED. 😅

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5 hours ago, dariafan said:

I want to see Michelle’s face when she gets to judgment day and she is told her mowing in a bikini had nothing to do with anything 

And to be told that God loves gays and men who wear women's clothes.

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I want to see Michelle’s face when she gets to judgment day and she is told her mowing in a bikini had nothing to do with anything 

"Your servant's heart has earned you three billion trillion years of celestial laundry room duty. Then you get to teach homeschool for all the rest eternity. Have fun!" -God

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I don't know.....there must be something wrong with me but it gives me supreme joy when my children do well and do better than we have. I hope and pray for them every day. I don't think Jim Bob and Michelle care much about their childrens' accomplishments. My opinion is that they really don't want their children to outshine them in any way. They really are terrible parents in every department.

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They definitely didn’t even want a male Dr. Duggar. Or a male Duggar accountant…  or even a real high school diplomas for their male offspring. I’m not going to even mention the female offspring.

 

Very horrible =neglectful parents indeed. 

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1 hour ago, iwantcookies said:

They definitely didn’t even want a male Dr. Duggar. Or a male Duggar accountant…  or even a real high school diplomas for their male offspring. I’m not going to even mention the female offspring.

As a (former) professor in the rural South, this isn't uncommon.  I had students whose parents seemed to be actively sabotaging their attempts to earn a degree, mostly because of some variation of "Why do you want a degree?  I don't have a degree and did just fine.  Do you think you're better than me?"  Which shocked me as well, because my parents also wanted us kids to achieve more than they did.  

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On 11/21/2021 at 8:00 PM, Cinnabon said:

How exactly are they being “persecuted?” Can anyone explain this? If they think they’re persecuted, they should look at how Muslims and Jews, among others, get treated. 

Their cancellation had nothing to do with their religion, FFS. 

Or atheists. 

Michelle wouldn't know persecution if it bit her on the ass. 

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22 hours ago, Fosca said:

As a (former) professor in the rural South, this isn't uncommon.  I had students whose parents seemed to be actively sabotaging their attempts to earn a degree, mostly because of some variation of "Why do you want a degree?  I don't have a degree and did just fine.  Do you think you're better than me?"  Which shocked me as well, because my parents also wanted us kids to achieve more than they did.  

It's not even a southern thing. My dad was adopted and raised in Michigan, fancies himself an intellectual, and actively sabotaged my attempts to go to college. When I finally did, and graduated, he invented a spurious excuse to not show up for my graduation. He blamed it first on me, as in I'm such a horrible person that he didn't think he should come to graduation. Then he claimed he didn't know the date of my graduation, which he'd known for five months.  

Tl; dr. Parental jealousy of their own offspring is real. Jim Bob has demonstrated that time and again. 

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22 hours ago, Fosca said:

As a (former) professor in the rural South, this isn't uncommon.  I had students whose parents seemed to be actively sabotaging their attempts to earn a degree, mostly because of some variation of "Why do you want a degree?  I don't have a degree and did just fine.  Do you think you're better than me?"  Which shocked me as well, because my parents also wanted us kids to achieve more than they did.  

My mom told me that when she was getting ready to graduate high school (back in the 1950's) that her typing teacher was going to come to her house one night to discuss with my grandparents a chance for her to go to a business school. My grandfather said no, he turned off the lights, and made everyone go to bed early.   It took me a while to actually get my bachelors, but she was definitely proud of me for doing that.  I think because of how her dad acted when she wanted to further her education. 

IMHO ME-chelle and Jim Boob don't want their kids to do better. They want to do whatever they can to keep the kids uneducated and without any desire to do better that way they can keep some control over them. Derick and Jeremy, as much as I hate their beliefs, I do like the fact they have continued their education (even if it means they never have to actually work a day in their lives).  

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I think with Michelle the kids arrested development and lack of further education is 100% due to the Gothard bullshit. She was practically tripping over her pride with Jill and actually likened her to a nurse. Whether she knows it or not, she sees some professions as impressive and would love to have her kids be successful.

With JB, to me its more complicated. For one, I think he thinks his kids are successful now, both financially and personally. I do think his ego gets in the way, but I think the struggle is he wants to be the king of the family and he wants others to be impressed with his kids. So I think he wants his kids, mostly his boys, to be successful, but not too successful.

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Well they always claim everything is done to become more godly and that is all they care about. They are better than us heathens as their main concern is for their children’s spiritual well being. None of the rest matters. 

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2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think with Michelle the kids arrested development and lack of further education is 100% due to the Gothard bullshit. She was practically tripping over her pride with Jill and actually likened her to a nurse. Whether she knows it or not, she sees some professions as impressive and would love to have her kids be successful.

 

1 hour ago, ozziemom said:

Well they always claim everything is done to become more godly and that is all they care about. They are better than us heathens as their main concern is for their children’s spiritual well being. None of the rest matters. 

I agree that much of their attitudes toward their kids can be traced back to Gothard, with JB's own ego and obsession with having his own self-sufficient "tribe" of descendants thrown in. I watched a YT video featuring a young woman who grew up in an IBLP/ATI family, but left that life. She said that the Duggars were "famous" because of their TV show and huge number of kids. I think she was the one who said that Gothard actually taught his followers that if they obeyed all the IBLP/ATI rules, they would be such wonderful people that they would literally impress total strangers they encountered (for instance seated next to someone on an airplane trip) with their wonderfulness and said strangers could even offer them jobs, just based on how wonderful and obvious their special blessedness would be. (If it wasn't from her, I learned that from some ex-Gothardite who spilled the tea online.)

Now, to me, that's world class bullsh*t, but apparently the true believers lapped that stuff up. **eyerolls** Wouldn't surprise me if Meech believes it with all her tiny little heart.

Edited by Jeeves
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1 minute ago, Jeeves said:

 

I agree that much of their attitudes toward their kids can be traced back to Gothard, with JB's own ego and obsession with having his own self-sufficient "tribe" of descendants thrown in. I watched a YT video featuring a young woman who grew up in an IBLP/ATI family, but left that life. She said that the Duggars were "famous" because of their TV show and huge number of kids. I think she was the one who said that Gothard actually taught his followers that if they obeyed all the IBLP/ATI rules, they would be such wonderful people that they would literally impress total strangers they encountered (for instance seated next to someone on an airplane trip) with their wonderfulness and said strangers could even offer them jobs, just based on how wonderful and obvious their special blessedness would be. (If it wasn't from her, I learned that from some ex-Gothardite who spilled the tea online.)

Now, to me, that's world class bullsh*t, but apparently the true believers lapped that stuff up. **eyerolls** Wouldn't surprise me if Meech believes it with all her tiny little heart.

I remember reading something like that too, except I recall something about a polo shirt. Did Gothard at one time want all the followers to wear red polo shirts?

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12 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

 

I agree that much of their attitudes toward their kids can be traced back to Gothard, with JB's own ego and obsession with having his own self-sufficient "tribe" of descendants thrown in. I watched a YT video featuring a young woman who grew up in an IBLP/ATI family, but left that life. She said that the Duggars were "famous" because of their TV show and huge number of kids. I think she was the one who said that Gothard actually taught his followers that if they obeyed all the IBLP/ATI rules, they would be such wonderful people that they would literally impress total strangers they encountered (for instance seated next to someone on an airplane trip) with their wonderfulness and said strangers could even offer them jobs, just based on how wonderful and obvious their special blessedness would be. (If it wasn't from her, I learned that from some ex-Gothardite who spilled the tea online.)

Now, to me, that's world class bullsh*t, but apparently the true believers lapped that stuff up. **eyerolls** Wouldn't surprise me if Meech believes it with all her tiny little heart.

Which ties in with their belief that Josh, as the firstborn male, was singled out for greatness from his cradle and would grown up to achieve great success for the glory of Jesus (and his parents). His destiny was so assured that they saw no point in educating him or instilling any measure of humility or self-discipline in him. They just let him grow up believing that he was the most special young man on earth and we all saw how well that worked out.

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1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

 

I agree that much of their attitudes toward their kids can be traced back to Gothard, with JB's own ego and obsession with having his own self-sufficient "tribe" of descendants thrown in. I watched a YT video featuring a young woman who grew up in an IBLP/ATI family, but left that life. She said that the Duggars were "famous" because of their TV show and huge number of kids. I think she was the one who said that Gothard actually taught his followers that if they obeyed all the IBLP/ATI rules, they would be such wonderful people that they would literally impress total strangers they encountered (for instance seated next to someone on an airplane trip) with their wonderfulness and said strangers could even offer them jobs, just based on how wonderful and obvious their special blessedness would be. (If it wasn't from her, I learned that from some ex-Gothardite who spilled the tea online.)

Now, to me, that's world class bullsh*t, but apparently the true believers lapped that stuff up. **eyerolls** Wouldn't surprise me if Meech believes it with all her tiny little heart.

This probably correlates with Jinger's assertion years ago that one of her favorite things to do was to talk about Jesus to her seatmates on flights. I guess she thought they were so very special that anyone would be delighted to hear how amazing they were.

Edited by Rootbeer
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1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

 

I agree that much of their attitudes toward their kids can be traced back to Gothard, with JB's own ego and obsession with having his own self-sufficient "tribe" of descendants thrown in. I watched a YT video featuring a young woman who grew up in an IBLP/ATI family, but left that life. She said that the Duggars were "famous" because of their TV show and huge number of kids. I think she was the one who said that Gothard actually taught his followers that if they obeyed all the IBLP/ATI rules, they would be such wonderful people that they would literally impress total strangers they encountered (for instance seated next to someone on an airplane trip) with their wonderfulness and said strangers could even offer them jobs, just based on how wonderful and obvious their special blessedness would be. (If it wasn't from her, I learned that from some ex-Gothardite who spilled the tea online.)

Now, to me, that's world class bullsh*t, but apparently the true believers lapped that stuff up. **eyerolls** Wouldn't surprise me if Meech believes it with all her tiny little heart.

I honestly don't find that story too farfetched.  I have been around long enough to see mediocre men (and it is almost always men) working in positions they are nowhere near qualified.  So many things are about who you know over what you know, so this scenario sounds plausible.  Josh's whole stint at the FRC somewhat proves this.  And then you have Jeremy who has attached himself to John MacArthur's butthole in order to ride that to some yet to be determined position.  

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3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

 

I agree that much of their attitudes toward their kids can be traced back to Gothard, with JB's own ego and obsession with having his own self-sufficient "tribe" of descendants thrown in. I watched a YT video featuring a young woman who grew up in an IBLP/ATI family, but left that life. She said that the Duggars were "famous" because of their TV show and huge number of kids. I think she was the one who said that Gothard actually taught his followers that if they obeyed all the IBLP/ATI rules, they would be such wonderful people that they would literally impress total strangers they encountered (for instance seated next to someone on an airplane trip) with their wonderfulness and said strangers could even offer them jobs, just based on how wonderful and obvious their special blessedness would be. (If it wasn't from her, I learned that from some ex-Gothardite who spilled the tea online.)

Now, to me, that's world class bullsh*t, but apparently the true believers lapped that stuff up. **eyerolls** Wouldn't surprise me if Meech believes it with all her tiny little heart.

Like most aspiring autocrats, stealth aspiring autocrat Gothard envisioned his followers as a kind of army, I think. They were his representatives and he pretty clearly dreamed of them extending his influence around the country and even the world. ....

His clothing recommendations were kind of line with that often, I'd say. Neat pressed khakis (or khaki skirts) with neat pressed polo shirts was what he pushed for teenagers and for family groups, who'd wear them matching. They also especially favored "Real American" colors like navy blue or red. Very uniform-like, and I'm sure Bill loved to see it. He wanted to see those people expanding his views into government, and for a while, to some extent that did happen. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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7 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

My mom told me that when she was getting ready to graduate high school (back in the 1950's) that her typing teacher was going to come to her house one night to discuss with my grandparents a chance for her to go to a business school. My grandfather said no, he turned off the lights, and made everyone go to bed early.   It took me a while to actually get my bachelors, but she was definitely proud of me for doing that.  I think because of how her dad acted when she wanted to further her education. 

IMHO ME-chelle and Jim Boob don't want their kids to do better. They want to do whatever they can to keep the kids uneducated and without any desire to do better that way they can keep some control over them. Derick and Jeremy, as much as I hate their beliefs, I do like the fact they have continued their education (even if it means they never have to actually work a day in their lives).  

Agree - education is not just about training for a job. 

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

This probably correlates with Jinger's assertion years ago that one of her favorite things to do was to talk about Jesus to her seatmates on flights. I guess she thought they were so very special that anyone would be delighted to hear how amazing they were.

That is just horrifying to me. 

Edited by Cinnabon
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2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

 

How did Gothard, or any of his followers, expect kids to grow up and become “powerful” in society without decent educations?

Edited by Cinnabon
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5 hours ago, ozziemom said:

Well they always claim everything is done to become more godly and that is all they care about. They are better than us heathens as their main concern is for their children’s spiritual well being. None of the rest matters. 

It's also possible that they want to "prove" that librul edumacation is unnecessary because Look How Successful We Are Without College. And college is just a plot to separate you from your money, and JB is so wise to have figured that out.

If he allows his kids to get educated, that would disprove this point - so, no school!

(While it's true that college education is not for everyone, and it's possible to be successful without a degree, his kids should at least have the option). 

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1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

How did Gothard, or any of his followers, expect kids to grow up and become “powerful” in society without decent educations?

Well, he started his little crusade back in the 60s and 70s when a lot of people with traditional views and somewhat anxious or control-freak natures were appalled and horrified by all the apparent young-person rebellion related to stuff like rock music, antiwar and civil-rights protests, feminism, long hair on men, birth control, gay people seeking a voice, drugs,, etc. He put together his programs pretty much entirely as a way for Christian beliefs to empower parents to rein all that in and shut it down. 

So that was their main concern.

He -- and, I guess, most of his (often pretty well educated) followers -- were really really fixated on those dangers. And because that was their focus, his followers seemed to be mostly the type of people convinced that not only are their own beliefs and behaviors the best ones but that it's absolutely crucial to share their patterns if you're going to make it through life and into heaven. And I think that kind of person cared far more about getting the kids to do exactly as they said than about giving them any kind of education that might help them navigate the future -- because change just scares that kind of person. 

I think as a result of that, Gothard gathered together some like thinkers and they dreamed up their own wide-ranging "curriculum" and started pushing the idea of homeschooling, using that "curriculum" really hard. .....

And because he had fervent followers who were scared witless of the influence of schools and other kids on their own kids, they mostly leaped at the idea of a form of education that was presented as being superior to any school education.      And then his "Wisdom Book" and other materials were based on the idea that everything you need to learn in life can in fact be derived from the biblical texts that most excite fearful, conservative grumpy people who fervently desire to perpetuate the patriarchy.  This, again, was exactly what the audience he attracted wanted to hear. 

So he gathered around him a lot of people who easily convinced themselves that his nonsense curriculum -- "taught" by stay-at-home mom at the dining room table -- was in fact the best, most philosophical, most universally valuable education anybody could get. They wanted to believe that, so they did. And he wanted to believe it because, wow, what a great grift! .... He's a damn good marketer, if nothing else. (He also has a pretty decent education and is glib at producing gobbledygook talk that might sound impressively intellectual if you're high on his fumes and aren't paying a whole lot of attention.) 

So as people were buying into this, he was telling them how great it was. And, as others have mentioned, he and his Gothard disciples (like the Duggars) repeatedly told everybody, old and young, that an ATI/IBLP-based education was based only on the most important text and the most important principles in the world and thus was uniquely valuable and empowering. And that the best education absolutely would be the one that kept children away from those corrupting and degrading forces of modern culture and schools and other kids and nonbelievers....AND would bring them this-world and the-next-world success.

People easily believed this because they were self-selected as a group who were completely freaked out by modern life and modern kids and teenagers. Hippies, racial mixing, women going to college and wanting professional jobs -- the Gothard believers were just appalled and horrified by all that. And when they were offered an alternative, it seems like their fears, anxieties and egos made them leap right onto the bandwagon of praising this education to the skies. 

And with his growing group of people feeding his ego, I think he both believed his own hype and realized he had to keep selling the product to get access to cash  and influence in society  (and ringletted young girls in flip flops), so he made the idea that this was a uniquely superior education a key point that he pushed all over the place.

In the same way Scientology goes after Hollywood celebs, Gothard managed to draw in various conservative-Christian leaders (including ministers, pols and others)  who bought his notions and then would praise the ATI/IBLP education as something that would definitely impress prominent people.......And in various states, he managed to get his "youth programs" and some other things public funding,.....So there was some apparent evidence that being Gothardite could lift you high.. And the made some international headway with this, too, apparently even may have won some government approval in a handful of countries, at least temporarily.

And as we see with Alert and Journey to the Heart, both Gothard and the parent members made a special effort to browbeat and brainwash the youth into buying all this ....You will have a great future! Because you are here!

And it took time for some kids and families to start noticing that, hey, it might not really be working out that way.....;The great expansion of his scam started tapering off a bit at that point. .... But when people really want something to be true.....it's easy to keep telling yourself that it is true....and to ignore the signs of the opposite....A lot of wishful thinking led to a lot of Kool-Aid drinking. 

But I think that now we're seeing some of the remnants of the pretty collapsed Gothard empire try to reassemble around this museum/theater/propaganda-spout or whatever JB's bought in Branson......

And the people who are doing this may have basically the same hopes and beliefs as have fueled all the long-term Gothard believers.

How they're planning to proceed isn't clear, but their new birth seems again to be built on a plan to teach the right stuff...... And on the idea that their ideas about what everybody should learn and how everybody should behave are in fact the very best ideas. And that people with those ideas will ultimately rise to the top and be recognized as the leaders who will change this society into the perfect Christian society and either convert or drive out or otherwise dispose of anybody who doesn't come on board with them.  Again, they're aiming at being on top and believe that their learning ways can get them there.....

 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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51 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

How did Gothard, or any of his followers, expect kids to grow up and become “powerful” in society without decent educations?

I think their opinion was that the education they were providing - including those homeschool materials Goddard got rich selling to the faithful - was more than decent, and better than whatever secular options there were.

I don' t know how they addressed the issue of college and professional education. Probably with the idea that their homeschooled kids would excel in college because they would be so much better educated than the heathens who went to public schools. 

This isn't from an IBLP/ATI/Gothard family. But in her book "I Fired God," Jocelyn Zichterman wrote about her life in the. IFB world. They were constantly told - and thus believed - that the education offered by Bob Jones University was as good or better than Harvard; IIRC her husband went there. She and her husband left the IFB world, and IIRC one of their many shocks in adjusting to life in the mainstream, was to learn that no, Bob Jones did not equal Harvard. IMO this just shows how true believers can be firmly convinced of a lot of nonsense, whether it's peddled by Bill Gothard or someone else.

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deaja

As a reminder, the site's Politics Policy remains in effect.  Yes, Jim Bob is apparently running for office again. That does not make it an acceptable topic of conversation in here - unless for some mysterious reason, TLC brings the show back and it is discussed on there. Even then, it would be limited to how it was discussed on the show.

If you have any questions, please PM the mods, @SCARLETT45 and myself.

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