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Worst of Friends: Your Least Favorite Moments

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I normally don’t get too het up about Ross but he was SUCH a dick when he thought Rachel wasn’t going to say goodbye.

First he bursts into the apartment and goes on a rant like he already knows how she’s feeling instead of asking her why she didn’t give him a goodbye.  Then he just turns around and walks out without giving her a chance to explain herself!

Also Monica was annoying with her “we are moving in two days and there is still a lot of packing to do, it would be nice if you could pitch in” to Joey and Phoebe.  Um, THEY aren’t moving.  Why should they help?  It’s one thing if they offered, but it’s kind of shitty to be all nervous that your moving day is coming when that’s on you, not your friends. 

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Oh man, I could write a dissertation on all the ways Ross was a dick. The one that sticks out in my head right now is because I just saw it a thousand times because it was one of the Thanksgiving episodes but it was when they were trying to trade around Secret Santas and he gets a stick up his ass about being told that Rachel exchanges everything. First off, he KNEW THAT ALREADY. He bought her earrings for her birthday when they were dating and said it was okay if she wanted to exchange them. Secondly, he made everyone uncomfortable because he wouldn't let it go. Rachel asks for Ross to pass the yams and he says, "Sure! Oh, and Joey’s got the mashed potatoes if you want to exchange them." Rachel should have given him a faceful of yams.

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10 hours ago, mojoween said:

Also Monica was annoying with her “we are moving in two days and there is still a lot of packing to do, it would be nice if you could pitch in” to Joey and Phoebe.  Um, THEY aren’t moving.  Why should they help?  It’s one thing if they offered, but it’s kind of shitty to be all nervous that your moving day is coming when that’s on you, not your friends. 

I get that, but they are ostensibly friends to both Monica and Chandler, and people who happened to spend an inordinate amount of time at that very apartment over the years. I don't think hoping they would help is so out of line.

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I get that, but the way she said it is what irritated me.  It was rude. It’s not that she was asking, but that she expected it which is unreasonable, IMO.  

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I really hated the plotline in The One with the Birth Mother where Erica mixes up Chandler and Monica's file with another couple's and Chandler (like a sane, reasonable person) wants to point out Erica's mistake while Monica decides to go along with the charade and pretend that she and Chandler are both doctors or whatever the other couple's professions were supposed to be. Aside from the fact that the ruse would have absolutely been discovered eventually even if Chandler hadn't convinced Monica to come clean, the whole thing made Monica look like a borderline psychopath. I know we were supposed to sympathize with her because the adoption process is extremely stressful and, as she pointed out, it could have been their only chance to have a baby but committing identity fraud in order to manipulate someone into giving you their child is horrifying and Monica's emotional breakdown when she was convincing Chandler to go along with her plan wasn't sold very well in my opinion. And then Erica decided to let them adopt her baby anyway because they admitted they were lying (eventually). What the hell? You aren't giving them $50 because they did the right thing and returned a lost wallet, that's a child. I would have kicked them out of the room. 

 

There's also an earlier ep during Joey's soap opera days where he dates someone obsessed with his character Drake that's really creepy in hindsight. The woman is literally delusional and genuinely believes that Joey is Drake and he goes along with it because she's hot (when previously, he seemed weirded out by the idea of a stalker because he assumed she was ugly). The fact that he tricked a mentally unstable woman into believing he was his own fictional character because he wanted to sleep with her was super grody and it's one of those eps that's aged extremely poorly. The other character's reactions to it were pretty gross as well from what I remember. 

 

That said, I still really like Monica and Joey! I just think those episodes made them come off very poorly 

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Yes, but the look on Matthew Perry’s face when Chandler throws water at Joey makes up for how skeezy the stalker story is.  Otherwise, yeah it was creepy.  Anything to get Brooke Shields into your ep, I guess.

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39 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Yes, but the look on Matthew Perry’s face when Chandler throws water at Joey makes up for how skeezy the stalker story is.  Otherwise, yeah it was creepy.  Anything to get Brooke Shields into your ep, I guess.

I forgot about the water scene! It was pretty funny, you're right. Chandler looked so excited (and adorable in his little sweater vest thingy) 

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I hate when something is funny, but then if you think too hard about it, it becomes implausible.

At Phoebe’s surprise party, Ross knocks and they all think it’s Phoebe and yell “surprise!” and Ross drops the cake.

But Ross would have needed to be buzzed in, so they had to know he was coming, and the door would have been unlocked and he could have walked in.  Then Phoebe comes in, so how did she get in if she weren’t buzzed?

I know they had that one joke where Phoebe was leaving and let the restaurant guy in who was mad at Monica, but still.

It was funny but improbable.  I need to stop thinking too deeply into this stuff.

Oh also there is nothing wrong with a Pagan altar so George and Noah can shuttie.

Edited by mojoween
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On 12/3/2018 at 6:05 PM, mojoween said:

Yes, but the look on Matthew Perry’s face when Chandler throws water at Joey makes up for how skeezy the stalker story is.  Otherwise, yeah it was creepy.  Anything to get Brooke Shields into your ep, I guess.

Ross' little eyebrow raise: That's right. He's not Drake. He's...dramatic pause... Hans Ramoray, Drake's evil twin!

The whole scene cracks me up with the water throwing and the Soap acting.

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The lack of follow through for Phoebe and her family storylines frustrates me. For all the buildup with her dad, we got one scene and not another word about him. The revelation of her mom and then she disappeared as soon as Phoebe decided to carry Frank’s kids. And Frank and his family practically disappeared too, outside of, what? Two post- birth eps? They weren’t there or even mentioned for Phoebe’s wedding. Ursula was the only relationship that I was okay with them basically dropping, as they haven’t ever and seemingly would never get along. But everyone else has potential and it was just kinda wasted, imo, 

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The only reason we saw Frank and Alice as much as we did is because they used them to write in Lisa Kudrow’s pregnancy. The writers originally didn’t intend to bring them back after their appearance in season 3.

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I always get confused about Phoebe’s dad.  Frank Jr.’s dad is the guy who came to her grandmother’s funeral, who said he is Frank Buffay, who was also in the store picture frames her grandmother had?  But Frank Jr.’s dad went to jail or ran off on that lady and Frank Jr., did he not?  And was there a stepdad?

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9 hours ago, mojoween said:

Frank Jr.’s dad is the guy who came to her grandmother’s funeral, who said he is Frank Buffay, who was also in the store picture frames her grandmother had?  But Frank Jr.’s dad went to jail or ran off on that lady and Frank Jr., did he not?  And was there a stepdad?

I think that the way it goes is that Frank Buffay is Phoebe's dad and Frank Jr.'s dad. In the episode where she first meets Frank Jr., Frank Jr.'s mom says that Frank Sr. went to the store several years ago and never came back. Phoebe's grandmother was still alive in that episode, I think. Then she actually meets her dad in the episode with her grandmother's funeral, but I don't know why we never see or hear about him again.

Phoebe's stepfather is the one who was in prison, I think, but I don't know for what or for how long.

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26 minutes ago, strippedhalo said:

Then she actually meets her dad in the episode with her grandmother's funeral, but I don't know why we never see or hear about him again.

Two-time deadbeat dad? I wouldn't want to see him again. I don't know why Phoebe bothered in the first place, I'd have let him keep walking.

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By the time the series was over, I had no idea who was alive and or active in Phoebe's life. What ever happened to her biological mother from the beach house? Was that a one and done storyline? Her whole family story is very confusing and not well-written.

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Phoebe’s wedding took part during a blizzard that closed down bridges etc. I could see how Terri Garr couldn’t make it in. Frank and Alice should have been there or at least mentioned.

I think it is like most shows when someone gets married, is in the hospital or dies, only the main characters are there and no one ever has family at these important times. I was always curious why Ursula seemed to hate Phoebe and wanted nothing to do with her. 

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Phoebe’s bio mom, Phoebe (played by Teri Garr), was in the beach house episode and then again when Phoebe was deciding to be Frank Jr.’s surrogate. The mom that raised her died. Her husband was in jail (Phoebe’s stepdad). Frank Jr and her dad ran out on both families, only to be seen at her grandmother’s funeral. We should probably assume this was the mother of the mom that raised her and probably the grandmother that had the wonderful cookies (and was played by Audra Lindley in one episode).  Twin sister is in NYC creating havoc filming porn, working at Riff’s, etc.  Where grandmom and sister were when Phoebe was living on the streets after Mom died is a mystery.

Phoebe and Ursula just don’t get along, as some siblings do.

Edited by chitowngirl
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I thought it was pretty obvious that Phoebe ran away from home. Where the home was (foster care or the grandmother's) isn't clear, but Ursula received all their mom's personal affects: suicide note, both her own and Phoebe's birth certificates, so I assume she had stayed put.

The grandmother was Frances, mother of Lily (adopted mom). There was dialogue once in awhile about Phoebe calling Phoebe Sr. ("I have to call my mom and ask her a left-handed cooking question").

There was a crowd at Phoebe's outside wedding. I like to assume that her family was there for it, even if the actors weren't.

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On ‎13‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:03 PM, VagueDisclaimer said:

The lack of follow through for Phoebe and her family storylines frustrates me. For all the buildup with her dad, we got one scene and not another word about him. The revelation of her mom and then she disappeared as soon as Phoebe decided to carry Frank’s kids. And Frank and his family practically disappeared too, outside of, what? Two post- birth eps? They weren’t there or even mentioned for Phoebe’s wedding. Ursula was the only relationship that I was okay with them basically dropping, as they haven’t ever and seemingly would never get along. But everyone else has potential and it was just kinda wasted, imo, 

While the lack of follow through in storylines usually annoys me, I can't say I mind in the case of Phoebe's family. Generally, I feel like Phoebe-centric storylines were always the weakest parts of the show. I never really got my head around her family history, and never really cared to. There was the never-seen grandmother, the twin sister no one knew about, two different mothers and at least one father, plus a surprise brother. It was all too soapy and silly for me, and really kind of depressing for a show like Friends.

I'd have liked to see more of Joey's dynamic with his sisters, because I liked the hints we got. He was protective and brotherly, in the two episodes where we saw his sisters, but we also saw that he was very aware of pregnancy issues, and reassuringly calm about them. He would have been a more rounded character, if we'd seen more of that. But then, if we had seen him more as a guy who grew up around strong women, his attitudes to dating would have been more jarring.

Especially when you think of the stunt casting they could have done for various Tribbianis - Marisa Tomei, Maria Bello, Carla Gugino, Alyssa Milano etc. Instead, they wasted that sort of capital on the creepy Denise Richards guest spot and equally creepy Sean Penn.

Meanwhile, I'm watching the episodes where Rachel has the baby, and am remembering anew how Phoebe started pushing hard for Rachel/Ross to happen again. Ugh.

Edited by Danny Franks
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22 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

While the lack of follow through in storylines usually annoys me, I can't say I mind in the case of Phoebe's family. Generally, I feel like Phoebe-centric storylines were always the weakest parts of the show. I never really got my head around her family history, and never really cared to. There was the never-seen grandmother, the twin sister no one knew about, two different mothers and at least one father, plus a surprise brother. It was all too soapy and silly for me, and really kind of depressing for a show like Friends.

I'd have liked to see more of Joey's dynamic with his sisters, because I liked the hints we got. He was protective and brotherly, in the two episodes where we saw his sisters, but we also saw that he was very aware of pregnancy issues, and . He would have been a more rounded character, if we'd seen more of that. But then, if we had seen him more as a guy who grew up around strong women, his attitudes to dating would have been more jarring.

Especially when you think of the stunt casting they could have done for various Tribbianis - Marisa Tomei, Maria Bello, Carla Gugino, Alyssa Milano etc. Instead, they wasted that sort of capital on the creepy Denise Richards guest spot and equally creepy Sean Penn.

Meanwhile, I'm watching the episodes where Rachel has the baby, and am remembering anew how Phoebe started pushing hard for Rachel/Ross to happen again. Ugh.

I felt that with all of the characters, outside of Monica and Ross's parents or even Rachel's parents, Chandler and Phoebe's made no sense and Joey's family didn't get the focus they SHOULD have had until his spin off series started. However, I agree that Phoebe's family was the one that made no sense from why Ursula was so hateful to Phoebe at times, to how the hell she ended up on the streets for a brief time. Or even the cliche talk on why her father walked out on them and yet NEVER got the reason why he walked out the second time. Especially, when he ran out on Frank Jr and his ex wife apparently when Frank Jr was in his early teens. Plus, what did he do for a living? He seemed pretty cleaned up and well dressed for a deadbeat. What was: "Oh Hey Frank, how's life?" "Oh... just the same, by the way, don't send anything to my address, I'm moving again. Just forward it there? Ok?" "Sure Frank, say hi to the wife and kids for me." Frank ducks down and leaves. I mean seriously?

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19 minutes ago, readster said:

Plus, what did he do for a living? He seemed pretty cleaned up and well dressed for a deadbeat.

He was a pharmacist. 

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3 minutes ago, readster said:

Wonder how I missed that?

It was in the one episode that we actually saw Phoebe's grandmother.

FRANCES: It was your mother's idea. You know, she didn't want you to know your real father because it hurt her so much when he left and I didn't want to go along with it but, well then she died and it was harder to argue with her. Not impossible, but harder.
PHOEBE: Alright, so, what, he's not a famous tree surgeon? And then, I guess, OK, he doesn't live in a hut in Burma where there's no phones?
FRANCES: Last I heard, he was a pharmacist somewhere upstate.

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6 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

It was in the one episode that we actually saw Phoebe's grandmother.

FRANCES: It was your mother's idea. You know, she didn't want you to know your real father because it hurt her so much when he left and I didn't want to go along with it but, well then she died and it was harder to argue with her. Not impossible, but harder.
PHOEBE: Alright, so, what, he's not a famous tree surgeon? And then, I guess, OK, he doesn't live in a hut in Burma where there's no phones?
FRANCES: Last I heard, he was a pharmacist somewhere upstate.

Well, being a pharmacist would make sense how he was able to move around and a few other things in the 80s and early 90s and people know where he might be. The question is was how he found out about Frances's death. Meaning someone knew how to get in touch with him. 

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4 minutes ago, readster said:

The question is was how he found out about Frances's death. Meaning someone knew how to get in touch with him. 

Probably not, because nobody bothered to tell Frank when Lily died, 14 years before. At that point Frances knew exactly where he lived, it was when he was still married to Frank Jr's mom. He most likely just saw an obituary about Frances.

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I’ve always found it weird that Phoebe made a huge deal about her mother committing suicide but when Frank Sr. asked where Lily was Phoebe said “she died.”  I would have thought she would have told him how.

Also are we to believe he had sex with Phoebe Sr.?  Why didn't he ask about her?

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On 12/14/2018 at 9:52 AM, Danny Franks said:

Generally, I feel like Phoebe-centric storylines were always the weakest parts of the show. I never really got my head around her family history, and never really cared to.

 

"Honey, come on! You live far away! You're not related. You lift right out."

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I didn't really get that into Phoebe's personal life storylines, but there were times that I did enjoy her plot of the episode. Like when she temped as Chandler's secretary and helped him realize and come to terms with the fact that his co-workers were now his employees and not his friends anymore. And of course, when Ross kept pestering her about evolution and she dropped him down a peg or two.

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56 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

I didn't really get that into Phoebe's personal life storylines, but there were times that I did enjoy her plot of the episode. Like when she temped as Chandler's secretary and helped him realize and come to terms with the fact that his co-workers were now his employees and not his friends anymore. And of course, when Ross kept pestering her about evolution and she dropped him down a peg or two.

I guess out of the 6, she did lift right out and occasionally she had funny lines/ mannerisms.. but for the most part I found her the least funny and the random shouting/ getting angry at people was annoying. Then again,I didn't really care about any of their personal backgrounds and found the flashback/"what ifs" episodes boring for some reason. I also found it weird that none of their families ever had thanksgiving or any of the holidays and that none of the 6 of them ever went home ( yes I know it's a show and that's why) but still.

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13 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I also found it weird that none of their families ever had thanksgiving or any of the holidays and that none of the 6 of them ever went home ( yes I know it's a show and that's why) but still.

The first thanksgiving episode kind of set that up to explain why, since most of them had/would have had plans with their families that year. I guess it ended up starting a new tradition.

  • Chandler - No plans. Boycott.
  • Phoebe - No plans. Celebrated with grandmother in December.
  • Ross - Parents went to Puerto Rico.
  • Monica - Parents went to Puerto Rico.
  • Joey - Social pariah. STD posters.
  • Rachel - Missed flight to Vail.
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Okay, so I'm repeating myself here, but I've just started season 10 in my rewatch, and it still really grinds my gears.

No matter how you feel about Ross/Rachel or Joey/Rachel, I don't see how any fan of the show could fail to be incredibly disappointed with how they disposed of the Rachel/Joey romance. They go from a really sincere, heartfelt, mature conversation between Ross and Joey, in TOW Ross is Fine, where both characters show tremendous growth and understanding of one another, and of their own feelings... to the awful, slapstick, 'ew, don't touch me it's weird' of Rachel and Joey in the next episode.

We had Joey saying he was crazy about Rachel, and thinking she felt the same, and Ross striving to understand and be supportive, then it was just a joke, and they get rid of it with, 'maybe we're just better as friends', and both characters went back to not even being slightly interested in each other. Joey, of course, then got even fucking dumber, rather than growing. It was ten episodes after this that they had that utter failure of a joke, TOW Joey Speaks French.

It's just about the worst bit of writing Friends ever did, and it simply doesn't make sense. Why have that scene with Ross and Joey, if they were just going to turn the whole thing into a cheap gag in the following episode?

Edited by Danny Franks
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Yeah I mean I guess they knew they were gonna put Ross and Rachel back together by the end of that season so they took a cheap shot at Joey and Rachel’s relationship because they wanted to end it before it really started .. I think the point of their storyline besides the writers running out of ideas , was the build up of them going from friends to having romantic feelings for each other .. but once they got together the suspense of that was over and then their relationship would have just felt awkward to watch.. the way they ended them and never brought them up again was poorly written though . They should have just had. Them date for a couple episodes only to realize they were better as friends . 

Edited by Jaclyn88
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I thought the whole Joey/Rachel relationship was contrived from the beginning.  She had a dream about him and now decides she wants to be with him?  Chandler and Monica had such a good buildup; when they got together it made sense.  Then you get the rewrite that she really wanted Joey (worst retcon ever!) and now Rachel is interested in Joey.  Never made sense to me.

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I could have easily accepted Joey and Rachel. Was the start of it lame? Sure, but that's the way things go sometimes. There was genuine affection and caring between them that had built up for years, especially after they moved in. He was great with Emma (Hugsy issue aside) and all through Rachel's pregnancy. And even though they went to some stupid areas there none of it was as painful or drawn out to me as Ross and Rachel's lead-up or the miserable aftermath.

The fact that they had these wonderful moments where Ross and Rachel both pointed out how long it had been since they dated and then immediately negated it by bringing the relationship to a quick and ugly ending so they could make room for a big Ross/Rachel reunion that made no fucking sense in any capacity still grates on me. Maybe Rachel/Joey was contrived... but it was a hell of a lot more believable to me especially YEARS after the show ended than Ross/Rachel was.

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I blame the Joey spinoff. If it hadn't been for that, the writers might have actually been able to go through with Rachel/Joey as endgame.

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The writers wanted Ross and Rachel as an end game but they screwed up with the writing because they didn’t have them date for 7? Years . I know the show was so long and they had to be broken up for a lot of it , but they should have been put together at least one more time to have them be believable to the viewers . They both seemed pretty over the other one . But all of a sudden they’re madly in love again after a one night stand which they also had when they conceived Emma without brewing any feelings for one another . Just seemed too contrived . Rachel and Joey were never gonna be end game though . 

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The thing is, though, we are all far removed from the whole Joey/Rachel/Ross deal. Time tends to soften reactions, sometimes allowing for more affection for something.

That said, I vividly recall the outrage when Rachel/Joey seemed to pop up. And I never gave two shits about whether Rachel continued her toxic merry-go-round with Ross or not or went for Joey (I was all about Monica/Chandler), but the anger was real and FIERCE at the time. I suppose the viewers (many teens online as I recall) really bought into the "lobster" Ross/Rachel crap.

So I get why the shift was so abrupt. I think the blowback caught TPTB by surprise, so they killed the Rachel/Joey thing in a mad rush. And it showed.

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9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The thing is, though, we are all far removed from the whole Joey/Rachel/Ross deal. Time tends to soften reactions, sometimes allowing for more affection for something.

That said, I vividly recall the outrage when Rachel/Joey seemed to pop up. And I never gave two shits about whether Rachel continued her toxic merry-go-round with Ross or not or went for Joey (I was all about Monica/Chandler), but the anger was real and FIERCE at the time. I suppose the viewers (many teens online as I recall) really bought into the "lobster" Ross/Rachel crap.

So I get why the shift was so abrupt. I think the blowback caught TPTB by surprise, so they killed the Rachel/Joey thing in a mad rush. And it showed.

I can understand the blowback, and I do remember seeing some stuff on nascent internet sites, where fans were outraged, but I still don't think the way they handled it made a ton of sense. The fans were outraged by the season nine finale, but the writers continued to treat the romance totally seriously, for the first two episodes of season ten, before turning it into a complete joke in episode three.

It just seems bungled, and they'd surely have been better having Joey and Rachel hook up, but then realise that the feelings they had were lust, rather than give Joey that sincere speech about how he felt, that he thought Rachel felt the same, and then have Ross give them his blessing. Only to then somehow conclude that all that stuff wasn't real.

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I remember plenty of people being insistent that it HAD to be Ross/Rachel at the time. I also remember a lot of people HATING the idea of Ross/Rachel being endgame because it was so predictable and boring even if they disliked Rachel/Joey, too. As for myself? I wasn't remotely surprised that Rachel/Joey ended because that was the absolute last season and, of course, they were going to go the pedestrian route and reunite the couple that had no business being together. The Ross/Rachel ending was, for me, absolutely excruciating and I was a Hardcore Ross/Rachel fan in the early seasons.

As far as I was concerned, Ross/Rachel as a viable couple were over and done with after the brief beach reunion and subsequent break up. Every attempt to make them a couple after that fell flat for me. I actually liked Ross/Emily and got frustrated that they had Rachel suddenly realize that she loved Ross and had to tell him about with Phoebe egging her on with her 'everyone knows we talk about it all the time!' Really?! WHEN?!!! They torpedoed Ross/Emily for a rekindled Ross/Rachel story that lasted about three more episodes and that was it. I didn't even care that they hooked up and had Emma... mainly because that episode with the videotape was hilarious and it even ended on a tone I could totally buy. Them watching the video and complimenting each other and then it getting ugly really fast and them rushing to turn it off. If their relationship had stayed like that I would have been all for it but they kept trotting out the 'They are MEANT TO BE!!' for finales when they never did the actual work to show it. And it wasn't like there were any other relationships that either one had that I was rooting for after Emily because it was obviously a lost cause.

Rachel and Joey were, at least, interesting to me and I knew they couldn't just write Joey out if it didn't work but there was legitimate sweetness between them that was worth rooting for. And then it just went away because, you know, Ross/Rachel uber alles.

And my personal canon remains that they did not stay together because that relationship has proven repeatedly to be unsustainable.

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I thought it was fascinating because Ross and Rachel were clearly their #1 couple and they wrote them so terribly.  You would think maybe they just couldn’t handle the romance angle (not all comedy writers can), but Monica and Chandler were great together!  How can they get one do right and the other so wrong?!?

 

I liked Ross and Emily, Ross and Julie, Ross and Mona.  Basically him with just about anyone else than Rachel.

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Mona was sweet but, man, she put up with a lot of crap from Ross because he couldn't nut up and be honest with her about anything. The bit where they finally break up and he says 'In a way, I judge her for not breaking up with me sooner' was spot on and made me laugh. But, again, by then I wasn't invested in any romantic pairing for Ross because I knew it wouldn't go anywhere.

I did find it interesting that Ross got the majority of actual relationships. Rachel had Tag and that was pretty much it. You could make an argument for Joshua but most of that was her pining for him and then when they finally got together, barely, Rachel got neurotic and weird about Ross' whirlwind with Emily. Although the wedding dress bit was funny, too. Rachel being a hot mess in relationships was infinitely more entertaining to me than as the object of Ross' teen aged infatuation.

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My issue with Ross and Rachel was that if you’re going to have a show that lasts 10 seasons , you need to put the characters in a relationship more than one time for me to care or have me buy that they actually care about each other romantically .. I thought they had a nice relationship before the whole mark thing , but nothing that was like wow , they’re so good for each other and so perfect together . I also feel like while Rachel might have had some residual feelings left for Ross all those years later , it seemed pretty obvious that Ross was over her completely until they decided on the last episode of the show that they were madly in love with each other and all of a sudden wanted to be together romantically . I’m sorry but there were no signs of that whatsoever after the whole Emily thing (6 years prior )

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19 hours ago, Dandesun said:

As far as I was concerned, Ross/Rachel as a viable couple were over and done with after the brief beach reunion and subsequent break up. Every attempt to make them a couple after that fell flat for me. I actually liked Ross/Emily and got frustrated that they had Rachel suddenly realize that she loved Ross and had to tell him about with Phoebe egging her on with her 'everyone knows we talk about it all the time!' Really?! WHEN?!!! They torpedoed Ross/Emily for a rekindled Ross/Rachel story that lasted about three more episodes and that was it. I didn't even care that they hooked up and had Emma... mainly because that episode with the videotape was hilarious and it even ended on a tone I could totally buy. Them watching the video and complimenting each other and then it getting ugly really fast and them rushing to turn it off. If their relationship had stayed like that I would have been all for it but they kept trotting out the 'They are MEANT TO BE!!' for finales when they never did the actual work to show it. And it wasn't like there were any other relationships that either one had that I was rooting for after Emily because it was obviously a lost cause.

Rachel and Joey were, at least, interesting to me and I knew they couldn't just write Joey out if it didn't work but there was legitimate sweetness between them that was worth rooting for. And then it just went away because, you know, Ross/Rachel uber alles.

And my personal canon remains that they did not stay together because that relationship has proven repeatedly to be unsustainable.

It was all ugly. Even before they got together, Ross and Rachel were both really ugly about Paulo and Julie (even if Paulo was a sleaze who hit on Phoebe, that was never why Ross claimed to "hate him"). Rachel was awful to Julie, and actively tried to sabotage her relationship with Ross more than once.

And with what happened after they broke up, then after Ross married Emily and was on the verge of breaking up the group, it is simply inconceivable that the rest of them would be talking about Ross and Rachel getting back together with any sort of joy. And the thing is, they blatantly weren't meant to be. The last six seasons of the show demonstrated that over and over again.

I completely agree that the writers were lazy about it, at every turn. They just went back to that well whenever they felt they needed a big "ooooh!" from the audience. The trouble is, every romantic, or quasi-romantic moment between them was filled with 'this is a big mistake' subtext, and I completely agreed. That "it's never off the table" beat in season 10 was utterly jarring. Because they'd both made it clear, countless times, that it was off the table.

I also think it's extremely unlikely that they'd have stayed together for more than a few months, after the show ended. After seven years of not being in love, but having sporadic moments where they touched on the fact that they might have feelings, they decide to (presumably) move in together and be a family? Yeah, that's going to last.

My personal view is that Ross should have ended up with Charlie - a woman who shared all his interests, and was just as passionate about them as him. A woman who seemed genuinely into him (until, of course, they turned that relationship into a gag as well), and didn't belittle him or his chosen profession. It made sense, and seemed like a real chance for Ross to have a happy ending that didn't feel contrived.

I also think, given they knew that the Joey spinoff was happening, that part of the wrapping up of the show should have been about him getting a great offer to move to L.A. Something for him to think about for the last few episodes, which could then have played into Chandler and Monica planning to leave the city, Rachel getting an offer in Paris, and the general air of 'this is the end'. But once the Joey/Rachel thing was wrapped up, he really did nothing else of consequence in season 10.

In fact, it was the nadir of Joey stupidity - Speaking 'French', using a thesaurus to write the letter of recommendation for Chandler and Monica, being a complete moron on that quiz show, and then he gets his head stuck in the door on Thanksgiving.

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Unlike other characters, relationships just brought out the worst in Ross and Rachel and not just the one they had with one another. And considering where these characters started on the show, it would’ve been more interesting, imo, to see them both end uncoupled. 

Still have Rachel get the Paris offer, but this time actually have Ross upset because she’d be taking his child rather far away, something he couldn’t imagine doing when Emily asked him to leave Ben. Have that be the conflict between Ross and Rachel in the finale and end it on a positive note of shared custody and mutual love and understanding between the two, with Ross finally respecting Rachel’s job and seeing that this is a huge opportunity she needs to take. 

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Everything said on this page has been spot-on. Honestly, if you removed the last two seasons of the series, not much would be lost. There weren't many episodes that justified going past season eight, and the way they handled the Joey/Rachel relationship in season nine and especially ten left a bad taste in my mouth.

There are a couple episodes that had that classic Friends charm to them (TOW the Memorial Service and TOW the Lottery, which ironically came back-to-back, TOW the Late Thanksgiving), but I think the last two seasons did more harm than good:

-The whole "proposal" nonsense 

-Ross suddenly hating Joey because of the "proposal" nonsense 

-Ross becoming creepy and possessive while living with Rachel 

-Christina Applegate as Rachel's other sister (Jill was a way better character than Amy)

-Chandler working in Tulsa not amounting to anything 

-"Nobody thinks you're stupid." "Where are you going?" "Game's tomorrow, Joe."

-Rachel suddenly becoming attracted to Joey

-David being made to look like a loser, so they could justify having Phoebe and Mike together 

-Joey and Rachel's relationship being treated so seriously in the first two episodes of season ten, then being dropped completely for no apparent reason 

-Joey being written as so stupid, he is not trusted to write a letter to the adoption agency 

-TOW the Stripper Cries, especially the ending which was not only a lame attempt at shock humor, but had some of the worst acting in the entire series 

-Monica being cartoonishly controlling while managing Phoebe's wedding, and the episode portraying Phoebe as wrong for not being able to handle it

-Joey speaking French.....enough said. 

-Rachel getting upset with Ross for not wanting to have sex with her

-Joey needing to learn from an eight-year-old that he should accept Chandler and Monica getting a house away from the city

-Ross not wanting Rachel to have anything to do with Mark......as if he's back in season three

To be fair, "TOW Rachel's Going Away Party" and "The Last One" were both really good episodes, and the series definitely ended on a high note. But I'm sure if I was watching the show when it was originally airing and not in reruns, I would have been turned off by the majority of the episodes after season seven or eight and not cared much about the finale. 

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