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Spoilers and Speculations

CofCinci

By CofCinci
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tmelange

tmelange

Okay, I just re-watched all the sneak peeks for next week's episode, and I'm going to call it: Lucious is Lola's father, and Camilla gets killed with the candlestick. Alternatively, Lucious shoots the guy who takes Cookie hostage, which is how he ends up arrested.

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GreekGeek

GreekGeek

There's some speculation in the "Unto the Breach" thread that Andre is the one to die. If that happens, I will quit watching. But it seems pretty unlikely that a show would kill off one of its most interesting characters so early. My money's on Anika. She's betrayed Lucious and he will not tolerate that. It's also possible that Cookie will find out about the drugging of Elle and seek revenge. 

According to the EW article in the finale, Anika and Cookie get in a fight and end up on a pool table. I wonder where this takes place?
Someone gets killed with a candlestick.

 

Are there candlesticks in pool rooms?

It would be poetic justice for Lucious to get away with Bunkie's murder, only to get arrested for a crime he did not commit.

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Artsda

Artsda

I can't see them killing him off Andre. The people around them like Rhonda and Anika I think are fair game though. Rhonda is a Lyons, she seems the most expendable to kill off if they're doing a family member. Anika is top of the list of they're killing off someone who is turning on the family, since she knows about the ALS and they need to keep her quiet.

 

Interesting Jamal is the one with Lucious by his side while he's being arrested instead of Hakeem. Jamal's really taking the lead.

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

There's some speculation in the "Unto the Breach" thread that Andre is the one to die. If that happens, I will quit watching. But it seems pretty unlikely that a show would kill off one of its most interesting characters so early. My money's on Anika. She's betrayed Lucious and he will not tolerate that. It's also possible that Cookie will find out about the drugging of Elle and seek revenge. 

Are there candlesticks in pool rooms?

It would be poetic justice for Lucious to get away with Bunkie's murder, only to get arrested for a crime he did not commit.

My money's on Anika as well. The only time I ever remember seeing a pool table was at Hakeem's place, or was it Camillas?. In the press release for the ep it says Hakeem flirts with the enemy. So maybe that's what initiates the fight.
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Kendall

Kendall

I'm sorry that as showrunners they were placed in a situation where it was "major success or bust." I think that has played a part in a lot of their writing choices, especially with anyone being killed at the end of the season. No matter who it is, they will be a character that most likely had a lot more run in them, especially if the writers knew from the start that they'd have such a great run and automatic renewal.

 

I know that most showrunners don't know and are hoping for the best, but let's face it, when the cast is primarily black, you gotta hope and pray and throw everything that they threw at us this season and because of that, it may do a little damage to the long run of the show. Just the storyline of Anika is potentially devastating to the show if she's written as the eternal (or soon to be dead) doormat.

 

This show will always need some "bad guys" to counter the bad guys of the Lyons family. Written properly and fairly, she and Beretti could be those bad guys without stealing any shine from the true stars.

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

From TVline no idea what it means

http://tvline.com/2015/03/10/empire-season-2-spoilers-lucious-cookie/

Question: I love TVLine and that I check it every day. Also, I’m loving Empire so much. Got any scoop on the season finale? —Chandler

Ausiello: Chandler, just a heads up that three out of four dentists agree you should check TVLine a minimum of six times per day – so you might need to step it up a bit. With that out of the way, I’ll pass the mic to Empire showrunner Ilene Chaiken, who has this to say about the end of Season 1: “A lot of the big questions that were raised in the pilot are not going to conclude — because nothing ever concludes in life — but there are going to be resolutions, big moves, decisions and stories that pay off. And in the course of that, everything is going to change. Everything will be poised at the end of the season to begin anew, with dynamics that are shifting and just as extravagant and flamboyant as they were in the beginning —maybe even more.” Specifically, Chaiken adds, “Be prepared for some things to happen in Lucious’ life that nobody ever expected.” And if you’ve detected an unspoken undercurrent of Cookie pondering the cruelty with which Lucious treats the people in his life — his sons and even Anika, in particular — the EP says you may be on to something. “That is very much going to come to a head in these final episodes — in a really consequential way for Lucious, and even moreso for Cookie.”

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

(edited)

The rumor I've been hearing is that Lucious excludes Cookie & Vernon from the IPO.

How do you exclude someone from the IPO, what does that entail?  Anyone know?

DEE where did you here that.

There was a quick backstage vid that looked like Lucious, his sons and Rhonda at the stock exchange and I didn't see Cookie so you may be on to something.

 

I am still wondering what Lucious gets arrested for, I am assuming it happens at the very end of the ep

Edited by aprilbabe
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tmelange

tmelange

(edited)

 

How do you exclude someone from the IPO, what does that entail?  Anyone know?

 

I think excluding someone from the IPO means either that those people aren't issued shares of the company prior to shares going on sale to the public or those people are not allowed to buy shares prior to the shares going public. I'm not exactly certain about the exact process of an IPO, but I'm under the impression that there is a time period where insiders solidify the number of shares they hold (such as employees who are awarded shares or options as part of a compensation package), and those shares rise significantly in price once the stock market establishes a price for them (that didn't exist prior to the IPO).

 

This is why founders of companies and key employees become super rich upon the company going public. Shares that were just paper percentages of a private company with an esoteric value suddenly become worth whatever the market says they are worth, which (if they're lucky) can be many times what the shares were worth when the company was private.

 

For example, a person gets 100,000 shares of a private company. Those shares are only worth whatever percentage they represent of the value of the company, which no one knows for sure because the company has never been sold on the open market. When the company goes public, issuing millions of shares, suddenly the market says that each share is worth $93. Suddenly, you have a very high net worth that is demonstrable, because you may sell some or all of your shares immediately to reap that money.

Edited by tmelange
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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

^^^

Thanks it never crossed by mind that cookie would benefit from the ipo itself. Basically Lucious would have to give Cookie shares? Now Vernon not getting shares that's messed up.

The arrest must happen after they go public. Bc if it happened before wouldn't screw everything up.

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tmelange

tmelange

(edited)

Cookie negotiated a salary, but she didn't seem to be aware that ownership of a corporation is evidenced by ownership of shares of stock. She almost surely wasn't given any of that from Lucifer out of the goodness of his heart. As a member of the board, she's going to realize quickly that she needs to have some shares to benefit personally from the IPO and to have any real say in the company as anything other than an employee.

 

I find it unbelievable that Vernon doesn't have shares of the company already in his hands. Lucifer may X him out of any preferential equity-purchasing opportunity prior to the shares opening up to the public, though, which might impact his ultimate payday. I wish we had an investment banker around to tell us the deal.

 

ETA: If Lucifer gets arrested prior to the IPO being finalized...that's just as bad as news of his ALS getting out. It would tank the IPO. No bank would back it, and those investors that they were courting would run for the hills. We haven't been introduced to anyone who could step into Lucifer's shoes from a PR standpoint, so that would be that.

Edited by tmelange
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Kendall

Kendall

Lucious' explanation for cutting Vernon out will probably be due to him working with Andre on the side. If Vernon has a significant portion to align with Andre, it would be that much easier to manuever Hakeem and/or Jamal out of the company and despite the contest, I doubt he wants that.

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missbonnie

missbonnie

The rumor I've been hearing is that Lucious excludes Cookie & Vernon from the IPO.

I'm going to bet that this is right. He cuts Vernon out to punish him about the deal involving should Lucious become unable to run Empire. I suspect that Cookie getting the shaft will be due to Lucious finding out about Cookie and Malcolm.

Who was Jamal tossing out of a window?

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

I think he's gonna do more than just deny Cookie shares, From the previews it looks like he removed her from Empire all together. Also during the preview you can see Vernon standing there during the press conference and I think I read an article that says somone goes to rehab, so I assume its him.  I'm back to thinking Anika gets killed off, maybe Malcolm but I cant see him dying by candlestick so, yeah I am back to thinking its Anika, during her fight with Cookie.

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emjohnson03

emjohnson03

Agree, at the end of the promo, there seems to be some indication that Lucius does burn them and Cookie sounds like she's going to go off and create her own "Empire" (.  To me it makes it pretty clear they are going to be rivals. Great set up for next season! 

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Artsda

Artsda

(edited)

What Lucious gives, Lucious can take away. Cookie had no shares, he took from the boys to give her some for the IPO. Then he's called out on stealing from his sons. When if Lucious is distributing the shares and says who gets what, he's giving the shares to his sons. Other than Andre the other 2 didn't earn them. It's not stealing when it's all his to decide who gets what.

 

So now he takes the shares back from Cookie and gives them back to the boys and Cookie's attacking him? He can't win in this one.

 

I do think Vernon's the rehab, Anika's the death, but there's also the Lucious gets arrested with Jamal and Cookie running after him. If he takes the fall for Cookie killing Anika, because Cookie would go back to jail then that could explain the evil eye Jamal is giving Cookie.

Edited by Artsda
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jazmine

jazmine

What Lucious gives, Lucious can take away. Cookie had no shares, he took from the boys to give her some for the IPO. Then he's called out on stealing from his sons. When if Lucious is distributing the shares and says who gets what, he's giving the shares to his sons. Other than Andre the other 2 didn't earn them. It's not stealing when it's all his to decide who gets what.

 

So now he takes the shares back from Cookie and gives them back to the boys and Cookie's attacking him? He can't win in this one.

 

I do think Vernon's the rehab, Anika's the death, but there's also the Lucious gets arrested with Jamal and Cookie running after him. If he takes the fall for Cookie killing Anika, because Cookie would go back to jail then that could explain the evil eye Jamal is giving Cookie.

This is a great theory! I too think that Cookie is gonna frame Lucious for the murder. Everything else I'm up in the air about but this two hour finale is going to KILL ME. 

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

This is a great theory! I too think that Cookie is gonna frame Lucious for the murder. Everything else I'm up in the air about but this two hour finale is going to KILL ME. 

The rumor I read was the Lucious helps Cookie cover up the crime. That would explain why the are back in each others orbit after, from the looks of the preview, declaring war on each other.

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Artsda

Artsda

This is a great theory! I too think that Cookie is gonna frame Lucious for the murder. Everything else I'm up in the air about but this two hour finale is going to KILL ME. 

I don't think she frames him, I think she lets him take the fall and he does as well. Jamal is probably angry she's letting innocent Lucious do this for something she did. 

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

Does anyone think Luscious will really die in a few (Empire) years?  I doubt it.  He's too critical on this runaway smash hit show. 

He will probably die on the last ep of the series.

From an article in the media thread

And maybe even morally confused. Howard says the episode will feature "someone getting their just deserts for doing something really bad, and you will either applaud it wildly or wish that this person had gotten away with it. It all depends on your ethics." Hmmm...could Howard be referring to his own character? Lucious killed old friend Bunkie (Antoine McKay) in the series premiere and never got caught, although the police have been hot on his trail ever since

 

We know Lucious is getting arrested and Taraji says someone else in the family serves or served time and it was karma. So we know its Lucious. But I am still unsure of what he gets arrested for. Part of it makes me think Bunkie, but then Terrence says it depends on your ethics NOT morals whether or not you are happy with him getting arrested. So couldn't he get arrested for the IPO stuff, knowing that he is dying isn't he technically committing fraud with going through the IPO (that an ethical issue) But Taraji saying karma, makes me think he goes down for Cookie, in the same way she went down for him. She lets him take the fall, and he takes it for her (if Cookie kills Anika and he gets arrested for it)

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Milz

Milz

(edited)

Here's the Empire first look at "Die But Once"

 

 

Based on that...Lucious ties with Harry Lime on my list of "greatest rat bastards of all time".

Edited by Milz
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CofCinci

CofCinci

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Does anyone think Luscious will really die in a few (Empire) years? I doubt it. He's too critical on this runaway smash hit show.

Stephen Hawkings was diagnosed with ALS in the 1960s. For those with connections and resources, it's not an immediate death sentence. Hawkings had affairs from his wheelchair, so we can imagine that paralysis wouldn't slow Lucious down one bit. IF they made the bold choice of killing Lucious, Terrance could appear in flashbacks as there is much back story still left to explore. All the said, Mr. Howard has been fired or quit in the past. Lucious' death could come unexpectedly sooner than originally planned.
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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

All the said, Mr. Howard has been fired or quit in the past. Lucious' death could come unexpectedly sooner than originally planned.

True with his rep you never know but as of now, I dont think Terrence or the show have any intentions of him going anywhere.

 

From the Media thread.

The bolded...Is this a spoiler or are they talking about this past epi?

And when I got the script, I knew that chemistry was needed for Cookie and Lucious. They can say, "I hate you! I can't stand you!" And slap the hell out of each other. And the next thing you know they’re laughing and trying to figure out how to get rid of Camilla ... or how to shoot somebody in the face
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Artsda

Artsda

(edited)

TH has said that them giving Lucious ALS has put him on a short leash, he has to behave because they can kill him at anytime. lol So I think he's really grateful for this role and is going to go the distance. 

 

 

And slap the hell out of each other. And the next thing you know they’re laughing and trying to figure out how to get rid of Camilla ... or how to shoot somebody in the face

 

I didn't get that either, after this line. TH replied that he never shot anyone in the face and Taraji mentioned something about her cousin. So it could be they were talking about Bunkie. 

 

However, the entire auditorium and them had just seen the first hour of the finale. They tried not to give spoilers and asked that the screening content not be brought up. The showrunner still did accidentally mentioning Lucious and Jamal working together on a song. So maybe Taraji accidentally gave something there too and Terrance tried to save it by saying he didn't know what she was talking about. 

Edited by Artsda
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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

 

 

I didn't get that either, after this line. TH replied that he never shot anyone in the face and Taraji mentioned something about her cousin. So it could be they were talking about Bunkie. 

 

However, the entire auditorium and them had just seen the first hour of the finale. They tried not to give spoilers and asked that the screening content not be brought up. The showrunner still did accidentally mentioning Lucious and Jamal working together on a song. So maybe Taraji accidentally gave something there too and Terrance tried to save it by saying he didn't know what she was talking about. 

Yea I think she slipped up. For one I doubt Terrence forgot he shot Bunkie in the face. And Taraji was talking about Cookie and Lucious as a unit. And she was not involved in shooting Bunkie in the face.

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

(edited)

Mega Buzz: Will Empire's Lucious Finally Get What's Coming to Him?

http://www.tvguide.com/news/mega-buzz-empire-finale-spoilers-lucious/

 

Although Jamal (Jussie Smollett) and Lucious are finally salvaging their relationship, the rest of the Lyon clan isn't nearly as forgiving. In fact, look for two of the people closest to Lucious to take very decisive action against the patriarch. And as they say, let the punishment fit the crime...

Hmm, I think one person is definitly Hakeem, and the second, I am starting to lean towards Cookie. I hope not though. I don't want her to snitch even if he does deserve it.

 

Only thing about that is that Cookie doesn't look pleased with herself neither in that BTS vid or the preview when Lucious gets arrested. Maybe she does something for revenge but changes her mind in the last minute and its too late or she doesn't expect this result. Although her doing something to publicly hurt Lucious would have horrible consequences to Empire if it goes public (and im sure it does) If Empire fails her 17 years in prsion were in vain, and plus it could hurt her sons career and whatever son takes of the empire. So I hope she'd be a better business woman than that.

 

Maybe its Andre or Vernon.

Edited by aprilbabe
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kpw801

kpw801

Grace Gealy, was on The View today, a sneak was show and Anika is plotting with Hakeem for a hostile take over, and tells Hakeem they need to convince Andre to join them.

Where can we see the video?

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CofCinci

CofCinci

  • Author

Grace Gealy, was on The View today, a sneak was show and Anika is plotting with Hakeem for a hostile take over, and tells Hakeem they need to convince Andre to join them.

Hakeem and Anika seem like such an odd match.

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

(edited)

FromEonline.com

Kate: I demand Empire finale scoop, Boo Boo Kitty!

YAS, COOKIE REFERENCE, YAS. Prepare to feel some feelings towards Anika. "If you thought you hated her now, just wait!" Grace Gealey (Anika) teases of Lucious' ex in the finale. "That's as much as I can say." We can add a little more: Anika does something with and/or to one of the three sons that will likely leave your jaw unhinged.

Uhm dear god please don't let Hakeem and Anika hook up. If they do, beat her ass Cookie!!!!

Ets this vid shows the sneak of Anika and Hakeem

http://youtu.be/Xrn5suoC4uc

Edited by aprilbabe
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GreekGeek

GreekGeek

Hakeem and Anika seem like such an odd match.

Not necessarily. It's been established that Hakeem likes older women, and since Camilla is out of the picture, at least for now, I can see Anika seducing him.

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

Starting to get some spoilers for Season 2

From this article http://tvline.com/2015/06/11/empire-season-2-spoilers-lesbian-teen-rapper-betty-barz/#

At least some of those issues can be attributed to the fact that Betty is the daughter of an incarcerated drug kingpin; “Pops,” it turns out, is the one person who can silence and humble his hard-headed emcee offspring.

Since this new character is incarcerated I wonder if Lucious has a hand in getting her signed in Empire and has a relationship with her father. Show runners stated that in the premiere Lucious is still in prison, but has his hand in a lot of things on the outside.

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

I did some Instagram stalking and Deray Davis (he played the guy who carried out the hit for cookie) has been working at Empire past two days and they seem to only be filming the jail scenes right now. So I wonder if Lucious finds out how Cookie got out of prison from him since they seem to be in prison together(I'm guessing so)

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

First spoilers for next season

http://tvline.com/2015/06/25/bones-season-11-spoilers-empire-gotham-sleepy-hollow/#

The new season kicks off three months after Lucious’ arrest. Knowing Lucious won’t be held much longer in prison, Cookie and her allies within the Lyon family make a desperate attempt to seize control of Empire. But as the Lyons continue to battle each other, a bigger external threat emerges that could force them to unite.

 

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aprilbabe

aprilbabe

Sometimes casting sides are changed so that information isn't revealed.   I hope this is the case because I'd probably turn it off.

Well there is apparently a "Free Lucious" concert. Extras from the set posted pictures. Hopefully Cookie just gives a speech without the extra theatrics.

From the article I posted above

After he finds himself locked up in the same prison as Frank Gathers, the man Cookie (Taraji P. Henson) testified against, he realizes that he's going to have to fight for his life if he ever wants the chance to wrest back control of Empire.

 

I saw that the guy who carried out the hit for Cookie, is in prison with Lucious as well. So I guess Lucious figures out how she got out of jail from him, as does Frank Gathers, but why would Frank want to harm Lucious he didn't snitch on him Cookie did?

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