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S23: Derek Hough

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To me it seems fairly obvious that TPTB know that more people watch certain dancers and so they try to keep them on the show longer by giving them more viable stars.

Exactly. It's the same reason I don't expect the show to give Val some 70 year old who can barely move because they know he's popular and want him to be around until at least mid-season and yes, same goes for Derek. Because at the end of the day this is an entertainment show. Yes, it's a competition but it's also an entertainment show where the producers' aim is to deliver what they think will get them the most ratings. And for the record, the oldest celebrity Maks ever got was Kirstie Alley who was in her 60's when she did the show. I just honestly find Maks' energy on this show to be unpleasant. The drama with the judges, all the "keeping it real", the back talk, etc. It's just all negative in my opinion. 

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Amber Riley was a shock to me on the first night of DWTS. And I watched every episode of Glee. In the dance numbers, Amber was usually hidden in the back. Derek saw something in her that the Glee choreographer never tapped.

And I was thinking more about Rikki's personality than her size. She seemed to need endless amounts of encouragement to me. Could be I'm remembering someone else though. I know she was on Broadway and had done some dancing.

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First of all, I have nothing against any of these Pros being competitive. I would expect them to be as many of them come from a competitive ballroom background. So yes, while I do comment on the silly ugly trophy, I have no issues with the Pros wanting to be their best in what is essentially their job. What I have a problem with is the negativity and finger pointing and shade throwing. To each his own, but like I said, I just think it brings an energy I for one don't enjoy. Maybe others do and maybe it is oh so great for the ratings (doubt it in my opinion) but I don't enjoy it. It's why I stated back after Maks and Hope's season that I was glad he was leaving and thought it was for the best at that point because things got so tense and uncomfortable with him and the show that season.

I didn't enjoy watching Maks constantly pissy at Len and throwing comments at Carrie Ann. There was even a point when Carrie Ann got genuinely emotional because she was hurt by some comment he made and just stood there with his smirk, later saying on GMA how he's only ever apologized to his grandmother like that's something to be proud of. And I've said the same about other things - like I think Keo is a weak Pro but I didn't enjoy seeing him be beaten down in the edits, scolded like a child by the judges, etc. And yes, frankly, that's why I defend Derek against all the hateful comments about him because I just cannot understand why this show which is supposed to be fun brings out so much ugliness and negativity. Again, to each his own, but I enjoy the cheesiness of this show and I hate when it's taken so seriously that it brings out all this ugliness. 

And speaking of Derek, I'm not sure what he was lying about. He didn't say he didn't have a say in his partners ever. He simply said that the producers have acknowledged to him that people are complaining. Why would that be a lie? Is that not true, that people have complained about Derek winning too much? And if Maks is confirming that he went as far as pointing fingers of favoritism for Derek by the old producers, I don't know why it is such an impossibility that the producers talked to Derek about that. And YMMV but I interpreted that comment as a confirmation that they do talk to him about his partners and it is a discussion. Because if they're saying, "this is who we're giving you now", clearly it is not this big surprise as the edit from the first episode tries to make it out to be. 

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James, James, James...what were y'all thinking????

Hinchcliffe's racing team nailed for cheating and are heavily sanctioned.

 

Between him and Lochte, this season is like the athlete's apology tour. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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All this nonsense about Derek being favored and I just think back to the obvious, set up wins for Maks and Val.  Hell, you could probably throw Tony in there, too.

Were there complaints about Maks judging his brother, his best friend, and various exes when he guest  judged a couple of times?

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I am over this show and it used to be required viewing.  Last season was a complete bust, I can't think of a worse dancer than the deaf guy getting a trophy for sticking his arse out and not having rhythm. I think the pro dancers are just so meh, that they have had to bring back Derek, Maks and Cheryl to re-capture some of the magic from the earlier seasons.  

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I've always wondered about the first meeting storyline. It's hard to imagine they don't discuss the pairings with the Pros although the celebs being surprised seems believable. Reality shows are actually UNreality in so many ways, nothing would surprise me. In the Extra interview, Marilu said she was extremely shocked to be paired with Derek because she thought he was no longer a part of the show and she was looking forward to Hairspray, etc. Which, if true, would mean she didn't request him as a partner. She's talked about wanting to do the show for so long that I think she would have easily been happy with any Pro they assigned to her. When she was first rumored to be on, I thought she would be paired with Tony or Artem based on past pairings. 

I can't imagine there isn't a lot of negotiating between the Pros and producers, with some Pros (long timers, Pros who draw more viewers, etc.) having more leverage than others. If Maks, Derek, et al bring in more viewers then I'm sure the producers will do a lot to get them on and keep them dancing as long as possible. Their bottom line, $$$, is more important to them than anything else. 

I agree with  truthaboutluv's reasoning when it comes to the matter of Derek's lying, but understand why others disagree.  As Len says, "reasonable minds can differ." In addition, reason is never the only factor that determines perceptions and beliefs. 

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32 minutes ago, Danseur said:

I've always wondered about the first meeting storyline. It's hard to imagine they don't discuss the pairings with the Pros although the celebs being surprised seems believable. Reality shows are actually UNreality in so many ways, nothing would surprise me. In the Extra interview, Marilu said she was extremely shocked to be paired with Derek because she thought he was no longer a part of the show and she was looking forward to Hairspray, etc. Which, if true, would mean she didn't request him as a partner. She's talked about wanting to do the show for so long that I think she would have easily been happy with any Pro they assigned to her. When she was first rumored to be on, I thought she would be paired with Tony or Artem based on past pairings. 

I can't imagine there isn't a lot of negotiating between the Pros and producers, with some Pros (long timers, Pros who draw more viewers, etc.) having more leverage than others. If Maks, Derek, et al bring in more viewers then I'm sure the producers will do a lot to get them on and keep them dancing as long as possible. Their bottom line, $$$, is more important to them than anything else. 

I agree with  truthaboutluv's reasoning when it comes to the matter of Derek's lying, but understand why others disagree.  As Len says, "reasonable minds can differ." In addition, reason is never the only factor that determines perceptions and beliefs. 

I'd think it would be a nightmare bringing all the pros (and their agents) into the discussion of who gets which celeb - not to mention the resulting tantrums by certain pros for not getting their choice.  Yes, there is a hierarchy within the pro ranks of most popular/been there the longest/young newbies etc.  Karina is the most experienced and probably popular female pro-would she have put in dibs for Doug or Victor? Maybe but I doubt it.  Cheryl is by far the most senior female pro this season.  Even though she took a few seasons off, she'd still outrank all the other females by miles, so why would she pick Ryan instead of the footballer?    I think casting knows the pros very well and do try to match up personalities, giving each star the pro they think will work the best with them.   

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Just had a thought. Most of the older contestants, even trained dancers, have had a hard time because their bodies break down with all the practice. I mean, remember Bindi's feet? And the older ones especially need the practice so they remember the routines.

Marilu won't need that. She will remember routines instantly, along with technique corrections. She can probably be perfect practicing an hour a day as long as Derek has his act together.

So if she turns out to be a ringer and sticks around to the end, it will have more to do with her memory than her training. Though the training is an advantage too.

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That is my point about the show kinda liking the black/white Fam/Hough divide.  It gives them an easy them vs. them narrative.

I'm sure they do, just like they like a few "controversial" celebrities. However, in my opinion, there would be no narrative if there wasn't something there in the first place. In other words, they're not fabricating an entire rivalry that doesn't exist at all. They're simply taking advantage of a tension that is already there. 

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The Fam/Hough crap is a big part of why the show has become so tired for me. I know it won't happen because of popularity and ratings but I'd love more of the old time pros to return (and actually be given decent partners). Maks, Derek, and Cheryl were not gone long enough for me to miss them. I've been watching since season 2 and would love to see more we haven't seen in awhile.

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On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 11:30 AM, truthaboutluv said:

However, in my opinion, there would be no narrative if there wasn't something there in the first place. In other words, they're not fabricating an entire rivalry that doesn't exist at all. They're simply taking advantage of a tension that is already there. 

You think they genuinely don't like each other? Sometimes I don't know what to believe when it comes to the C-Bro/Hough friendship. There are several conflicting signals.

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You think they genuinely don't like each other? 

In my opinion, yes, I think Maks and Derek genuinely don't like each other. I already suspected it and reading that stuff in US Weekly only further convinced me of it because if you were Derek, would you like someone who accused producers of favoring you and essentially downplaying your success? And simultaneously, Maks wouldn't make those claims against someone he likes. Now I do think Derek and Val are friendly - best friends, absolutely not but I don't think they dislike each other. There is definitely a healthy competition though and I'm sure both want to beat the other and I would expect nothing less. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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11 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

In my opinion, yes, I think Maks and Derek genuinely don't like each other. I already suspected it and reading that stuff in US Weekly only further convinced me of it because if you were Derek, would you like someone who accused producers of favoring you and essentially downplaying your success? And simultaneously, Maks wouldn't make those claims against someone he likes. Now I do think Derek and Val are friendly - best friends, absolutely not but I don't think they dislike each other. There is definitely a healthy competition though and I'm sure both want to beat the other and I would expect nothing less. 

Do you think the Derek dislike applies to Peta, her friend Sharna, and Val's girlfriend Jenna? Does Maks try to, in effect, brainwash them against him? I'm talking personal terms, not professional/competitive terms - as in "don't socialize with Derek if you don't have to"?

For some reason I'm fascinated by the personal, outside-of-work interactions between these people LOL.

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53 minutes ago, fpbl83 said:

Do you think the Derek dislike applies to Peta, her friend Sharna, and Val's girlfriend Jenna? Does Maks try to, in effect, brainwash them against him? I'm talking personal terms, not professional/competitive terms - as in "don't socialize with Derek if you don't have to"?

For some reason I'm fascinated by the personal, outside-of-work interactions between these people LOL.

No.

At MOST they might get on each other's nerves in a professional capacity. Any and all "war" bullshit is just that. I really don't think either of them spend much midspace on it.

I follow too many of them on social media now so I feel like I now know a little too much about their wearabouts. (It started with one or two and now it may have ballooned into too many.)  Derek was part of a big group of DWTS pros who went to one of the LA tour stops of the Maks & Val Tour. Jenna posted a video of Derek and Hayley visiting her and Mark backstage at SYTYCD. (Hayley and Jenna seem fairly close from their SYTYCD season.) I've only heard Sharna speak highly of Derek. Theres a red room video from last season floating around where Derek had stopped by, and I'm fairly certain he got a big warm hug from Peta and spent a good bit of time talking to Nyle.

I think it was Maks who said in that article, it IS incestuous. While it would be naive to think they all run around LA holding hands and skipping, its also fairly impossible to draw a line in the sand and separate them into "Team Derek" and "Team Maks" like tabloids (and fans) seem to want to do. Theres too many interconnected relationships in that whole group to do that.

Edited by kitcloudkicker
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On 9/4/2016 at 9:51 PM, truthaboutluv said:

In my opinion, yes, I think Maks and Derek genuinely don't like each other. I already suspected it and reading that stuff in US Weekly only further convinced me of it because if you were Derek, would you like someone who accused producers of favoring you and essentially downplaying your success? And simultaneously, Maks wouldn't make those claims against someone he likes. Now I do think Derek and Val are friendly - best friends, absolutely not but I don't think they dislike each other. There is definitely a healthy competition though and I'm sure both want to beat the other and I would expect nothing less. 

 
 

In the Week 4 results thread, this was posted:

On 10/4/2016 at 9:51 PM, McManda said:

From this post in the Media thread: (I'd quote directly, but the formatting goes all wonky, so...)
Derek hastily tweeted (and then deleted) the following: 

"Talent trumps cheap thrills. I hope America recognizes the difference." Followed by, "Glad to be apart of a classy show that isn't about male stripping. Oh wait we still do that on this show." Val responded with "Boy you better stay away from those male strippers then."

People were speculating it was about the male pro number, which I might understand, except I thought the male pro number was classy. No stripping ... or anything akin to stripping, really.

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6 hours ago, McGee43 said:

In the Week 4 results thread, this was posted:

Since the male pro dance had nothing to do with stripping, I'm inclined to think Derek was throwing a little shade on the Maks & Val dance (where they pulled in someone from the audience).  Who knows what prompted it - maybe someone teased him a little in rehearsals?  Val's response had laugh-till-you-cry emojis so maybe he was doing the teasing.  Just my opinion.

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16 hours ago, Uke said:

Since the male pro dance had nothing to do with stripping, I'm inclined to think Derek was throwing a little shade on the Maks & Val dance (where they pulled in someone from the audience).  Who knows what prompted it - maybe someone teased him a little in rehearsals?  Val's response had laugh-till-you-cry emojis so maybe he was doing the teasing.  Just my opinion.

For some reason I don't think that was what Derek was referring to. He was shirtless in his own solo dance (I know being shirtless is not the same as stripping). But it seemed hypocritical of him to tweet that in light of his own number. I suspect we'll never really know what this was really all about though.

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On 8.10.2016 at 0:12 AM, RemoteControl88 said:

For some reason I don't think that was what Derek was referring to. He was shirtless in his own solo dance (I know being shirtless is not the same as stripping). But it seemed hypocritical of him to tweet that in light of his own number. I suspect we'll never really know what this was really all about though.

Yeah, it mostly seemed like some sort of private, ongoing argument between two parties (disagreeing about choreo? Criticism that was taken as offensive? Who knows...) that was taken to social media and made public in the heat of the moment. Now they've taken it down, but the damage is done since stans on both sides will continue to use it as fodder for their attacks. Insert eyeroll.

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2 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

Derek to be a judge on JLo's World of Dance:

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/world-of-dance-derek-hough-neyo-jennifer-lopez-judges-1201928896/

(I'm guessing that means he's out for more DWTS? Though I never know anymore.)

This strikes me as quite funny. He's said how many times that he'd never want to judge on DWTS since he'd just give everyone 10s.  He's really not a public speaker with his halting way of talking so I don't know how he'd do giving critiques. Finally "all genres of dance, including hip hop, krumping, popping, locking, tap, ballet, break dancing, ballroom, clogging, stomping and more", Derek isn't really well versed in any of those styles other than ballroom.  Then again, CAI isn't really well versed in ballroom. LOL!  Just my opinion, folks!

Wonder what happened with Singing in the Rain - is that on indefinite hold?  This World of Dance is only 10 episodes (initially) and the start date is undetermined. If it's a winter show, wouldn't it run January to mid-March?  That would mean he's likely out for S24. 

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4 hours ago, Uke said:

Wonder what happened with Singing in the Rain - is that on indefinite hold?

Official word is that Broadway is theater locked for an indefinite period of time, with a long list of shows waiting for theaters to open up. Who knows though, but I would guess that's not happening until late 2017 at the earliest, if it doesn't get kiboshed. Harvey Weinstein's made an effort already of promoting it though which makes me think it wouldn't get killed completely.

I think it's funny when people claim Derek only knows ballroom though, he's pretty cross trained with all his theater school background. And I'd imagine judging that show will be like judging Americas Got Talent. I mean, didn't JC Chasez judge Americas Next Dance Crew?

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None of the judges are versed in all styles - J Lo doesn't have a background in anything but Hip Hop and some Jazz, far as I know, same with Ne Yo. Nigel Lythgoe who created So You Think You Can Dance and has a whole foundation dedicated to promoting all types of dance, only really has a background in tap. 

Edited by truthaboutluv

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Nigel Lythgoe is trained in a lot of styles .  He comes by his foundation honestly experienced enough to celebrate all kinds of styles.  The guy even danced with Cyd Charisse, so he's been there done that long before dwts.  

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He became interested in dance at the age of 10. He began tap dancing, and went on to study at the Hylton-Bromley School of Dance and Drama and the Perry Cowell School of Dance, both in Wallasey, Merseyside where he studied classical ballet, modern jazz, ballroom, character, classical Greek and National dance from various countries. Lythgoe's first professional job was in the Corps de Ballet for the National tour of "The Merry Widow." He trained in London under Joanne Steuer and Molly Molloy.[2] Beginning in 1969, Lythgoe performed with the BBC's The Young Generation dance troupe. He became their choreographer in 1971 and has since choreographed over 500 television shows

Edited by RedFiat
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17 hours ago, Uke said:

This strikes me as quite funny. He's said how many times that he'd never want to judge on DWTS since he'd just give everyone 10s.  He's really not a public speaker with his halting way of talking so I don't know how he'd do giving critiques. Finally "all genres of dance, including hip hop, krumping, popping, locking, tap, ballet, break dancing, ballroom, clogging, stomping and more", Derek isn't really well versed in any of those styles other than ballroom.  Then again, CAI isn't really well versed in ballroom. LOL!  Just my opinion, folks!

Wonder what happened with Singing in the Rain - is that on indefinite hold?  This World of Dance is only 10 episodes (initially) and the start date is undetermined. If it's a winter show, wouldn't it run January to mid-March?  That would mean he's likely out for S24. 

Derek was a judge on I think a British version of what CAI and Bruno did a number of years back, that Dance War thing which translated as SHIT and never to been seen again on the US version. The British version wasn't as bad. I actually found his critiques kind of interesting on that show.  But just WOW a million dollar purse for the winner of a dance show is amazing, they are bound to get some really excellent talent for this.    

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Derek seems like a good choice.  He's popular and so can bring his own fans to watch.  He can be the resident ballroom pro just like Mary was for SYTYCD.  But he does know other styles like Broadway and he's really good at production numbers.  I mentioned this show in the SYTYCD forum in the summer.  I was hoping that a forum will be created for this show so that I can discuss it with fans of SYTYCD and DWTS.

The show will have individuals, pairs, and groups.  I believe my daughter said that they will start filming in late winter/early Spring.  Nappy Tabs were some of the preliminary judges for auditions and callbacks.   Like other shows, directors/producers also pick people.   

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Derek was on Ellen today, mostly to promote/talk about Hairspray Live, but Ellen did ask him about World of Dance. He said that he would start shooting that early next year and he would NOT be back for the next season of DWTS. So, that's Derek out, Maks out (he said he wanted to be with the new baby), Mark probably out, which leaves a lot of openings in the male pro line-up next season. I'm sure we'll see Sasha again since he did such a great job with Terra. And Gleb will probably be back. Maybe a few of the male members of the troupe will be promoted to pro?

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36 minutes ago, PBGamer89 said:

With Maks and Derek out, TPTB will probably try their hardest to get Mark back to get a popular, former winner back.

I know this is the Derek thread, but Val's been hinting at thinking about moving on as well. Would be interesting to see what it would look like if he did - it might be an interesting time for a changing of the guard.

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With Derek sidelined and now gone for the next season, the pros who really filled the choreography void were the females, Sharna and Lindsay. With some changes it would be nice to see the female pros get more recognition. 

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On November 29, 2016 at 9:30 PM, kitcloudkicker said:

Official word is that Broadway is theater locked for an indefinite period of time, with a long list of shows waiting for theaters to open up. Who knows though, but I would guess that's not happening until late 2017 at the earliest, if it doesn't get kiboshed. Harvey Weinstein's made an effort already of promoting it though which makes me think it wouldn't get killed completely.

I think it's funny when people claim Derek only knows ballroom though, he's pretty cross trained with all his theater school background. And I'd imagine judging that show will be like judging Americas Got Talent. I mean, didn't JC Chasez judge Americas Next Dance Crew?

The only dance style he has expertise in is ballroom. Some other styles he can do at an amateur level.

That theater thing is just a bad excuse, shows are closing constantly. And if a show is coming to broadway, another show (that was struggling) will even close to make way for it sometimes. So I assume Singing in the Rain is just falling through.

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On November 30, 2016 at 2:21 PM, realdancemom said:

Derek seems like a good choice.  He's popular and so can bring his own fans to watch.  He can be the resident ballroom pro just like Mary was for SYTYCD.  But he does know other styles like Broadway and he's really good at production numbers.  I mentioned this show in the SYTYCD forum in the summer.  I was hoping that a forum will be created for this show so that I can discuss it with fans of SYTYCD and DWTS.

The show will have individuals, pairs, and groups.  I believe my daughter said that they will start filming in late winter/early Spring.  Nappy Tabs were some of the preliminary judges for auditions and callbacks.   Like other shows, directors/producers also pick people.   

When the show's about to start, there's a thread somewhere here where you can ask for a forum to be created for it. They like people suggesting new show forums to also suggest thread topics for it too (like the threads here for the episodes, participants, judges, hosts, small talk, etc.), so you might be thinking about that if you plan to suggest a forum for it.

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On 12/2/2016 at 7:15 PM, BW Manilowe said:

When the show's about to start, there's a thread somewhere here where you can ask for a forum to be created for it. They like people suggesting new show forums to also suggest thread topics for it too (like the threads here for the episodes, participants, judges, hosts, small talk, etc.), so you might be thinking about that if you plan to suggest a forum for it.

Thank you.  I didn't see the thread where we can suggest forums.  I do love discussing dance shows with fellow dance fans.  It's always nice to read different opinions.

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16 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

Thank you.  I didn't see the thread where we can suggest forums.  I do love discussing dance shows with fellow dance fans.  It's always nice to read different opinions.

You can find the New Show Forum Requests area here

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