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S05.E08: Episode Eight


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I can't wait to see what happens between lady Violet and Kuragin. To tell the truth, I don't think she should accept his offer, she's got more to lose than him if they become lovers and the truth comes out.

 

Wouldn't it be socially acceptable if he moved to a cottage in the town and attended events with her as her old friend and companion?  As long as they aren't living together?

Edited by terrymct
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Also forgive me, since rose doesn't care very much about religion and its very important to Atticus family why doesn't she convert? It certainly was not unheard of in 1924 and since papa Aldridge cares so much then why not!

 

It's not a simple process, and would have taken longer than their two month engagement if it was done right. It also wouldn't have satisfied the more traditional members of the faith ie Lord Sinderby because converts were viewed suspiciously. And a lot of rabbis even now would frown upon someone converting merely to check the box for the family. If its not a genuine change of faith, then its not honest.

 

It's not like the Christian faith where all you gotta do is get dunked and say "I'm born again" :)

Edited by ZoloftBlob
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One of my favorite bits was the update on O'Brien, which felt more like Fellowes saying "No, I still haven't gotten Siobhan back, so stop bugging me about it!"

 

I really feel sorry for Michelle Dockery. In everything else I've seen her in she displays far more range than what she's allowed here (I dare anyone to not bust a gut during her cameo in Hanna, and I definitely won't spoil why), and from that Funny or Die sketch it's clear she doesn't take Mary nearly as seriously as Fellowes does. But she's forced to soldier on throwing out these ever more mean-spirited lines that she has to know just make her look bad.

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P.S. I'm betting that Bates will try to take the fall for Anna now. That "she won't be convicted" sounded a tad too declarative. Sigh.

Bates would never take the fall for his wife. He already did that once with his first wife before Season 1, and we know how JF insists on never reusing a a storyline.

Anna won't be convicted because Bates will murder the witness against Anna, Anna will be let go, but when a witness against Bates comes forward, Bates will be arrested for murdering the witness against Anna.

Then Anna will murder the witness against Bates, Bates will let go, but when a witness against Anna murdering the witness against Bates comes forward, Anna will arrested for murdering the witness against Bates.

Then Bates will...wash, rinse, repeat.

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I cannot warm to the prince and hope Violet doesn't decide to run away with him.  I find him boorish and can't imagine how bad Violet's marriage must have been that she saw this guy as a possible alternative.

 

I thought it was a little mean of the family to make Bates attend the memorial when his wife is sitting in jail.  I loved Mary during the arrest.  Is Edward still prince right now, or has he begun his short reign?  If I were she, I might be making a phone call to call in a favor.  I think the inspector might care who she is then.  Stupid storyline.

 

I was chilled when Anna joined the line up of women raped by Green.  Way to victimize them further, police station.

 

Tom's scenes with Edith were sweet, but his scenes with Mary were warm.  I don't ship them, but I really want Mary to be with someone she has absolutely no pretense with and right now that gives me Carson and Tom to choose from.

 

Count me in as someone who believed Robert mentioned Gregson as a short cut to let Cora know subtly that he had figured out the scheme.  I'm still pissed off on behalf of the Drewes and adoptive parents everywhere.

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Rose's reception dress was lovely. Loved. And this is the most animated her fiancé has been. He actually looked quite cute and not like a Mary suitor clone for once. Rose's father was sweet and her mother vile (and stupid). All in all, a nice diversion.

I totally ship Mosely and Baxter. For all of Moseleys flaws he has a good heart.

I do not want Tom to go! He serves a purpose in humanizing Crawleys.

While I don't think Thomas was being intentionally predatory, he definitely was attracted to the temporary footman. They really need to find someone gay for him. He needs to get laid.

I simply don't get Mary's thing for gratuitously insulting Edith. What is the point? I understand not being close. I get it. But Mary cracks out with totally needless, unprovoked insults at utterly random intervals. Why? Makes no sense to me and isnt nearly as 'witty' or 'amusing' as she thinks.

I'm torn though on the scene with Mary and Carson. On the one hand, I do enjoy his blind loyalty to her. It's a well established thing and a believable aspect of him. Plus, I enjoy glimpses of human Mary. She's there somewhere under the priviledge and sang froid. On the other hand, I rolled my eyes a little at the writing where at the very first moment that she experiences discomfort, someone arrives to tell her she is, of course, the grandest, most awe some thing on earth. Honestly, while Carson thinks she's at least twice as good as Gilliham, I don't know that I believe that... Not that Gilliham is awesome. He dumped his fiancé to sex up Mary. On the other hand, Mary was all for it until she decided to toss the fish back in the pond. The difference seems to be that Gilliham actually had greater affection for and more honorable intentions toward Mary than she did for him. But no harm no foul as its's a blessing for them to part ways. But Mary didn't come off looking twice as good as Gilliham. They came off roughly as equals. (Still not sure why Mabel Lane took him back. I hope groveling was involved). Oh and I got Mary Tom vibes. Hope they don't go that route. Like the friendship. Don't want a romance there.

Good episode for Donk. I thought his gesture for Mrs Patmore was very sweet. I'm glad he and Cora reconciled and his little smile when Cora laid the smack down on the bitchy lady talking about their acceptance of the Sinderbys by Cora pointing out that her father was Jewish. And I thought his comments about Marigold were subtly done, especially for him. Plus, his playing shoots and ladders with Sybbie. Sweet. I like his character because on the one hand he can be such an oblivious head up his ass Donk. But deep down, for all his flaws, he actually does care... Not that he doesn't deserve the occasional shaking.

Edited by shipperx
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What are we supposed to think about Anna?  Did she kill Greene so Bates wouldn't have to?  Is Fellowes going to tell us she only wanted a word with him -- "If my husband comes to kill you, please don't let him,"  -- and he was so stunned at the silliness he fell in front of a bus?

 

Also, Spratt amuses me.  I don't know why, he just does.
  He's hilarious!  His prissy, stuffy way of talking is like a really great parody of the worst of all butlers.  I don't see how Maggie Smith plays her scenes with him without cracking up.

 

I thought it was clever of Lord G to figure out Marigold's true parentage and let Cora know the way he did.  I just wish that when she asked him if he would be able to love the child he would have said something like, "Of course I will love her because she's Edith's child, and I'm quite surprised that I don't really care how she came to be."  Just being surprised that he thinks he's going to love Marigold, doesn't sound the same and leaves it open to thinking he's surprised that he's going to love a child of Edith's. 


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Since it seems increasingly obvious that Tom will end up with another Crawley sister, I'm forced to ship Tom and Mary.  He's far too nice to end up with the whiny, self-pitying and entitled "kick 'em to the curb once they've served my purpose" Edith.

 

If you started to list ridiculous plot contrivances and urealistic anachronisms on this show, you'd be typing until tomorrow, but I can't see Robert's being so accepting of Edith's bastard being raised with his heir and his adored Sybbie.  It will hurt them, and  especially Sybbie, who's already got to overcome the chauffeur father and papist taint. 

 

What I cannot believe, really cannot believe, is that anyone could think yet another murder plot involving the Bateses could have any interest whatsoever.  And what are the odds that both people in a married couple would be arrested for a murder they couldn't commit?  If I were a Bates, I'd start buying lottery tickets, get those fantastic odds working in my favor for once.  And by the way, I'll call foul if it turns out Anna did it; because if she did, she couldn't have worried that Bates did. 

 

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Wait a minute- Robert sees Grayson what, maybe 2 or 3 times, and 3-4 years later he sees a similarity in Marigold???  They need HIM to be a witness for Scotland Yard because he obviously has a photographic memory for fine details.

And just how incompetent IS Scotland Yard?  Is this the same SY that is now protecting the UK from ISIS, because they are doomed.  Plus didn’t they say that the new witness said that it couldn’t be Bates because the person he was talking to was short?  They didn’t say anything about it being a woman.  And if the killer was standing on the opposite side of Green, how did the witness see anything other than the fact that Greene was looking down?  And why am I spending so much time thinking about this totally idiotic plot line?  I need a hobby.
 
I think Violet and Isobel should have a double wedding.  But if they make the Jewish get married in the Registry Office, where do the Russians have to get married -in the kitchen???

 

Mary’s got plenty of bucks.  She should just ship Bates and Anna to Boston with Tom. But then who would dress milady?  She'd never be able to manage on her own.  Socks can be so tricky.  And only a pro could put a hat on that plastic hair correctly.

 

That was one incriminating series of photos of Atticus taken from a dark hallway into a dark room without a flash with 1920’s technology.  I mean, come on.

 

Edited to get the century correct.

Edited by Kohola3
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Nice Thomas is so much more enjoyable than evil Thomas.

 

I also liked seeing Happy Edith instead of Mopey Edith. Even Mary's little digs don't bother her anymore, which is awesome to see. Its also going to piss Mary off even more that she can't bother Edith the way she used to -- looks like the bloom is starting to fade from Lady Mary's rose (not her cousin!) Mary really does take pleasure in being the reason why people are unhappy, and when they find happiness in spite of her, she just does not like it -- for example, even though she willingly gave up Gillingham, once she knew he and Mabel Lane Fox were getting married, all of a sudden she was pouty and poor me). Of course Bates was there to put her ego back into orbit. 

 

Happy Edith getting her way and mopey Mary not getting her way? I'm digging it!  

 

When Donk admitted he could absolutely love Marigold as his grandchild, I think his surprise was more at himself for being so accepting of such a societal taboo. The times, they are a'changin'! Donk was on tonight -- and I loved his kindness to Mrs. Patmore's nephew. Well done Donk! 

 

I thought the "witness" who had come forward was a female but then they had a man come in and identify Anna? 

Edited by SailorGirl
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I'm worried about this Prince Kuragin thing - I think he's a gold digger, wooing Violet so that he can get back in the lap of luxury. I don't trust him for a hot minute. Even if they don't get married, being her paramour would give him a big step up from the refugee living in a hovel status he's at now.

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So Carson thinks Gillingham isn't good enough for Lady Mary, but has no objections to Gillingham and Mabel Lane Fox?

 

It's one one thing to say that some people are compatible and others aren't, but "good enough"?

 

Nice of Carson to implicitly shit talk MLF.

 

Not that I'm any fan of Gillingham, but I'm not sure why Gillingham was not "good enough" for someone who

  • was rude to any man in Season 1 in which she wasn't interested
  • was willing to drop Matthew like a hot potato the moment Cora's pregnancy threatened his status as heir
  • did jack during the War (even Robert admitted this earlier this season)
  • planned to marry Richard Carlisle for money
  • went hat in hand to her grandmother for money
  • only showed an interest in the estate and its tenants when the estate's finances threatened her standard of living

And I'm trying to limit myself to what Carson would know about

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I would see Edith Tom as complete settling for both sides. He had the most beautiful Crawley sister and then would get the grey mouse instead. He had the one who was confident and passionate and optimistic and would get the pessimistic one, who always stood in the shadows and who let life (and her family) push her around all the time. How could Tom ever feel for Edith what he felt for Sybil? The thought is beyond me.

 

 

While I don't see Edith as ever having the vibrancy of Sybil, I don't think we'll continue to see "grey mouse" Edith any longer.  I loved that she was smiling and happy in this episode, and she was dressed beautifully.  Laura Carmichael is actually a very pretty woman, and perhaps it is time for the show to let us see the beautiful woman Edith can be without the ever-present unhappiness.  I think we've see the last of the Edith who lets life push her around. (fingers crossed)

 

I was thrilled to see Tom confident in giving out a few orders to the family.  When Robert was waffling about what to do with the cottages, Tom firmly told him that they would talk about it in London.  When Rose received her envelope of pictures at the restaurant table, he not only told her exactly what to do, but he ordered Mary to go with her.  LOVED it!  I think Tom is the one loss I could not stand for this show.  He's my favorite character by far.

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So Carson thinks Gillingham isn't good enough for Lady Mary, but has no objections to Gillingham and Mabel Lane Fox?

 

It's one one thing to say that some people are compatible and others aren't, but "good enough"?

 

Nice of Carson to implicitly shit talk MLF.

 

Not that I'm any fan of Gillingham, but I'm not sure why Gillingham was not "good enough" for someone who

  • was rude to any man in Season 1 in which she wasn't interested
  • was willing to drop Matthew like a hot potato the moment Cora's pregnancy threatened his status as heir
  • did jack during the War (even Robert admitted this earlier this season)
  • planned to marry Richard Carlisle for money
  • went hat in hand to her grandmother for money
  • only showed an interest in the estate and its tenants when the estate's finances threatened her standard of living

And I'm trying to limit myself to what Carson would know about

 

"Even a butler has his favorites, m'lady."

 

Plus, he doesn't know MLF from Adam (Eve?). Why is he obligated to be nice to her?

 

When you consider Carson is probably a bigger "snob" than Robert, he would have no problem with any of Mary's behavior. If anyone is all about "know your place" and "keeping up tradition," it's Carson. And he's been fond of Mary since season 1 (and before) -- that much has been consistent.

 

I really liked the scene with the two of them. Mary lets her guard down with Carson in a way she doesn't with anyone else.

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"The witness saw a person in London who was short. So clearly the killer is ... MRS. BATES." That is some stellar police work, there, Vyner. Remind me never to get murdered in London.

 

Daisy's been getting on my nerves lately, but I just loved her in this episode. The scene where she realized that there was so much more of the world available to her than she'd imagined made me a little teary-eyed. I remember being her age and feeling that way. Of course it doesn't last because life is mostly just hard work and kind of boring no matter what your station, but everyone should get to have at least a brief time in her life where everything seems possible.

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That episode was terrific, apart from the Bates nonsense (at least Mrs. Hughes hung a lampshade on it at the end there) and a bit too much Daisy. But otherwise, great. 

 

Shrimpy is the absolute best. And yes, the costumers are rocking it this season, especially this episode!  I think we saw the best side of a lot of characters, and I was happy with that. 

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On the Thomas / Andy situation, I didn't think Thomas was attracted to Andy. I think it was simply Thomas helping out a young boy who was foolish and naïve. It's possible that Thomas himself fell prey to the same scam in his youth.

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Ironically, the Wallace Collection is basically the paintings and porcelain collected by a family and not all that different from the paintings (and Faberge eggs) at Downton Abbey -- that Daisy, in her early days, used to dust and clean around. If she really wanted to see art, and know more about it, she's been there long enough that she could ask to spend some of her brief free time going to look at it. Lady Cora, now that she's all arted up, might even tell her about some of it.

 

And Daisy has options. She has a farm she could be learning to run. She could even take her cooking and catering skills there and open a farm tea shop if she wanted to be self employed.

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So glad sprat got caught trying to get denker in trouble, why is he not fired?

When Spratt was busted, Violet chuckled. Besides not being able to find good help, I think she finds him amusing to keep around.

 

"Tell me, do you find it very difficult these days to get staff?"

"Not very, but then again, we're Jewish, so we pay well."

Violet grinned from ear to ear. She was thinking, "Oh, snap."

 

Mischief is one of the joys of Violet's life.

 

Liked this episode a lot, showed the best side of all of the regulars except Mary. She's far too harsh towards her sister. And the Anna crap. Oy.

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This was a tidy-up episode - all the hanging story lines jammed through a redemption arc (well, except for Anna) to set us up for the final season. Robert the doting granddaddy, Mrs. Patmore gets her memorial, Edith has her baby, Thomas is a friendly mentor, Atticus and Rose threatened then married, Susan put in her place, Lady Sinderby saving the day from bigots, the prince steadfastly wooing Violet...I mean, the thing could have written itself.

 

But the fashion was divine. Was Mary wearing Chanel at lunch (or, as Violet would say, "luunchsheon")?

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I, too, would enjoy "The Susan and Shrimpy Show", or perhaps "The In-Laws" -- where Lady Sinderby and Lady Flintshire would constantly encounter each other out in society and lob verbal bombs. Clothes, scenery, snark -- love it!

 

This wasn't my favorite ep but I did like Tom gaining more ground within the family. He is indeed part of "we four", and a cherished and respected member. He ain't goin' anywhere. 

 

Mary’s got plenty of bucks.  She should just ship Bates and Anna to Boston with Tom.

It won't do.

 

They'll just renew their killing spree on the other side of the pond.

 

 

Oh, Constantinople, you rule! 

 

I am not won over by Prince Kuragin and his declarations of passion. Maggie Smith was wonderful in those scenes, but Kuragin has nothing to offer her but sweet words. Violet is no fool and I don't see her head being turned for long. He's way more than a bit of a fixer-upper. He's skeevy. As another poster said, he needs industrial-strength shampoo, and what few possessions he has, including clothes, would need to be burned. 

 

Eta: I'll bet he has his eye on the Faberge.

Edited by RedHawk
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I have watched every episode, but for the life of me I can't remember how/why Shrimpy lost his money.  He's a great dad though.  Loved that Susan got cut down by so many of the family and her new in-laws.  It seems she's been a pill and a party pooper all her life, so good luck finding someone to foot the bills after the divorce.

 

Now that Rose and Atticus are married, that means Rose won't be living at the Abbey, right?  If she's gone and Tom leaves for America, meal times are going to be pretty tense with just Mary & Edith for conversation.

 

I thought it was great that the SY detective told Mary off when she demanded to be addressed as "Lady Mary Crawley" and he said he didn't care if she were Queen of the Nile.  First, it's a murder investigation and titles dont' (shouldn't) out rank the law.  Secondly, times they are a changin'- tiles, estates and posh manners don't mean much in post warI, 20th century and his pointing it out to Mary was a good dose of reality for her.

 

Like most of the world, I'm over the Bates and their did they or didn't they plot.  Just turn them into an English version of Bonnie and Clyde and let them lose in London or Liverpool or anywhere but Downton Abbey.

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I'd forgotten just how awful Susan is. She's almost as horrible as Vera the original worst. She tried to sabotage her daughter in at least three different ways, it's mind boggling that level of snobbishness.

 

I really liked it when Robert checked Lord Sinderby when the disagreement with Shrimpy and Sinderby over India came up. I like seeing that sort of loyalty.

 

I have watched every episode, but for the life of me I can't remember how/why Shrimpy lost his money.  He's a great dad though.  Loved that Susan got cut down by so many of the family and her new in-laws.  It seems she's been a pill and a party pooper all her life, so good luck finding someone to foot the bills after the divorce

Shrimpy and Susan failed to economize in any realistic way and continued to live as though they were still making the same level of income pre-WWI. In the Christmas Special of season 3 Shrimpy talks about watching money slip away because he didn't modernize Duneagle. They were employing servants and observing expensive rituals that they could no longer afford and basically did so until they could no longer. 

 

And yes, Susan has always been unlikable. 

 

planned to marry Richard Carlisle for money

Carson let her know how he felt about this decision and she gave him nothing but grief for it. It's not like he's completely unaware of her flaws or of calling her on them.

 

I think "good enough" doesn't necessarily have to be snobbish. I just thought he meant that he's not good enough because they weren't especially compatible and there wasn't any visible chemistry between them as there was with Mary and Matthew. Good enough for Mary is a guy who is going to make her happy and that guy wasn't Gillingham.

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The show is losing it's luster for me because I find myself rolling my eyes more than I should.  I find Rose and Atticus incredibly boring and really don't care about the contrived photo stuff. 

 

Arresting Anna after all this time on a very unreliable witness account (I think the person was short, oh wait, it might have been a woman) and arresting her at night like she is a flight risk after all this time, and really we don't know who she will murder before morning. 

 

Marigold doesn't look like Edith or Gregson.  She looks like some random child actor they hired and yet Robert suddenly comes to the conclusion that she looks like Gregson.   Oh, it was his way of acknowledging his grandchild.  Subtle.

 

Perfect Mary, "We must all have lunch, even you Edith."  "I'm so going to miss you, Tom.  If I'm left alone with Edith, I'll kill myself."  One can only hope.

 

The ridiculous Denker story.  Is she gone, I hope.

 

There were a few bright spots, like Thomas coming to the rescue (not usually something I would say) .  And seeing Mr Mason again.  And yes, Dr Clarkson.  I really hope Isobel ends up with him.  The fashions were fabulous

Edited by SierraMist
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Marigold doesn't look like Edith or Gregson.  She looks like some random child actor they hired and yet Robert suddenly comes to the conclusion that she looks like Gregson.   Oh, it was his way of acknowledging his grandchild.  Subtle.

Robert should have at least said that Marigold reminded him of Edith when she was a baby. That would have made more sense to me than seeing Gregson when Gregson was barely a presence in their lives.

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Robert should have at least said that Marigold reminded him of Edith when she was a baby. That would have made more sense to me than seeing Gregson when Gregson was barely a presence in their lives.

I agree.  That's what made his comment so ridiculous to me.

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Julian Fellowes seems to not only have run out of good ideas but also out of how to flesh out any new characters.  The exception is Lord Sinderby who has genuine motivations which are not only expressed vocally but in the props (the menorah in the library).  We understood why he was against the marriage.  He was not against Rose but against the dilution of his Jewish line.  On the other hand, Miss Denker, Spratt, Susan Flintshire, Miss Bunting, Prince Kuragin, Larry and Tim Merton/Gray, Tony Gillingim are all two dimensional characters who just waste screen time.

 

The foolishness with Spratt hiding the suitcase and then Denker conning the new footman so she could get drunk plus the way Violet continues to put up with bad behavior from Spratt is insulting to the viewers.  We have a character we have an interest in - Moseley (the Edith of downstairs) who is a trained butler and has been through so much including being sabotaged by Spratt when he had a chance to get a job with Lady Shackleton; we now have to watch this insufferable "butler" be rude to guests, try to sabotage a trip by his employer out of spite, etc.  I don't understand anything about the Spratt/Denker business and I don't care.

 

I am tired of Daisy.  She has never been a particularly likeable character since she trampled on poor Williams feelings while drooling over Thomas.  Will someone please tell Mary to knock it off!!  The bullying of Edith is immature and tiresome!  I can't wait until next Sunday when Once Upon a Time comes back on!

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I'm starting to wonder if there's something fishy about Anna's arrest. Like she or Bates (or Mary?) are being set up. By whom and for what reason, I have no idea, but just the way it was all dragged out, the spontaneous line-up with the "witness" who was, originally, supposed to be a woman...I might be giving the show too much credit to think this was the case, but they did come through on the whole train ticket thing so who knows. But is it possible someone's paying Inspector Vyner (or Scotland Yard) off?

 

I loved Sybbie and Donk playing Chutes and Ladders. "You rolled a six, so you have to down and back to here." "No!" She is her mother's daughter and I love it. Also, interesting how Rose seemed to be so good with George but then later said how she'd leave child-rearing to the nanny. Maybe she's one of those people that likes to dote on children but doesn't want the larger responsibilities they come with. Today, since the societal expectation for women having children is much lower, she might have just been a fun aunt or cousin.

 

Oh, doesn't Rose have an older brother and sister? Why weren't they at the wedding? I don't even think they were namechecked. Or have they just been retconned out of existence?

 

Of course the one time when things actually go smoothly for Edith and the universe isn't against her is the one time she doesn't deserve a free pass. She seriously fucked up with this whole Marigold thing, treating the Schroeders and especially the Drewes like they were dirt underneath her feet. I can't even get mad at Mary's juvenile jabs because they are the bare minimum of what Edith deserves.

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I have been a stalker here for awhile, love all the snark and opinions....one moment that made me chuckle was when Cora put Lady Manville in her place at the wedding reception....Lady M was offering her understanding of the Rose/Atticus/Jewish situation to Cora and Robert....Cora reminded her that her father was Jewish, Lady M didn't know what to say and scampered off to talk to another guest....then Robert sort of smiles at Cora and snorts!!

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I am not won over by Prince Kuragin and his declarations of passion. Maggie Smith was wonderful in those scenes, but Kuragin has nothing to offer her but sweet words. Violet is no fool and I don't see her head being turned for long. He's way more than a bit of a fixer-upper. He's skeevy. As another poster said, he needs industrial-strength shampoo, and what few possessions he has, including clothes, would need to be burned.

 

He comes across as a jerk to me, too.  He clearly hopes his wife is never found.  Now un-princely.  Is he being written so that we abhor him, the way we hate Susan? And then there's the hardass nature of Lord Sinderby's bigotry.  As someone just mentioned above, the villainous characters are just too over the top.

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I have watched every episode, but for the life of me I can't remember how/why Shrimpy lost his money.

 

 

As Avaleigh mentioned above, Susan and Shrimpy didn't adjust their lifestyle until basically it was too late. There's been mention that "the money was Susan's" as in, when they married Shrimpy was poor and Susan was loaded. So I can see how he might have wanted her to slow down but she refused to do so, and now it's mostly gone. However, there's also been talk of how "Shrimpy will have nothing" and yet the unspoken message that somehow Susan still will have money. I don't get that at all. Susan does seem to think that once they're separated she will be all by herself in some fine home. It's all murky.

 

And yes, there was mention by Susan of "the children". So Rose has a brother or sister or both? I did think that possibly, as some people say, by "the children" she meant Rose and Atticus. Not that she'd likely think of Atticus as part of her family 5 minutes after trying to break off the wedding.

Can you imagine Spratt having to take orders from Prince Kuragin, or even serving as his valet? I think I caught him putting his nose even higher when the Prince visited Violet.

Edited by RedHawk
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I have been a stalker here for awhile, love all the snark and opinions....one moment that made me chuckle was when Cora put Lady Manville in her place at the wedding reception....Lady M was offering her understanding of the Rose/Atticus/Jewish situation to Cora and Robert....Cora reminded her that her father was Jewish, Lady M didn't know what to say and scampered off to talk to another guest....then Robert sort of smiles at Cora and snorts!!

 

Welcome!

 

I loved that scene, too.  After Robert did that, I said, "Did Lord Grantham just chortle?"  LOL.

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Robert should have at least said that Marigold reminded him of Edith when she was a baby. That would have made more sense to me than seeing Gregson when Gregson was barely a presence in their lives.

 

Robert met Gregson twice, right? Once in Scotland in the season 3 finale, and then again in that season 4 episode with Sampson the card sharp/poker games. That's why it's hilarious he's suddenly developed Mrs. Hughes-like powers of observation about what the man looked like. Maybe Mrs. Hughes tipped him off.

 

Lady Manville and Lord Sinderby might be unlikable, but I bought their bigotry more than Atticus's line about bringing up their children to understand both religions.  

Edited by moonb
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I have been a stalker here for awhile, love all the snark and opinions....one moment that made me chuckle was when Cora put Lady Manville in her place at the wedding reception....Lady M was offering her understanding of the Rose/Atticus/Jewish situation to Cora and Robert....Cora reminded her that her father was Jewish, Lady M didn't know what to say and scampered off to talk to another guest....then Robert sort of smiles at Cora and snorts!!

I still think it's a little odd that JF never raises the issue for 4 seasons.

Now it seems in every other episode Cora is chanting out

We're here

We're peers

Get used to it

Of course, it was only in this episode that they mentioned the Amritsar Massacre, which in DA terms took place back at the end of Season 2 during the Spanish flu episode.

  • Love 3
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Sibby and Donk are playing a game, Sibby is losing so Mary tells Donk to cheat so she can win.  Insight into how Mary got to be the way she is.

 

I knew Carson was going to tell Mary she can do better than Gillingham because he's one of the people who made Mary the way she is.  Gillingham is boring but he's also honourable and deserves better than that.  Mary needs someone who won't let her get away with her cruelties and her self-delusion (Blake would have worked) before she's ruined beyond repair.

 

Blake "I'm posted to Poland".  Mary "Some people have all the fun."

later Violet to Mary: "Don't ever apply to be a diplomat."  Violet is always the best.

 

I liked Thomas mentoring Andy.  I hope it's platonically though because Thomas needs a friend.

 

So what the hell was the purpose of Denker?  I was totally puzzled by her in this ep.  First we get a sordid implication (to me) she was sexually panting after this temp footman, who's a fraction of her age.  And then the real explanation was so convoluted, I was still baffled.  So is that the end of Denker?  Too bad.  I thought she was a good foil for Spratt, who I find a ridiculous a-hole.  I remember what a dick he was to Moseley.

I can't figure out why Violet is still holding on the Denker.  I know she doesn't like change but this woman is making trouble in her household, both households actually.  Maybe now that she's keeping Isobel, Violet can get rid of Denker.

 

I loved the amount of luggage Violet needed for a few days in London though.

  • Love 6
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I've had the feeling all along that much if not all of the motivation for Kuragin's determined pursuit of Violet is the return to the lifestyle to which he's accustomed. If he were to snag Violet, he'd be back to aristocratic circles, servants, dinner parties and a nicely appointed dower house. And he'd probably pinch housemaids bottoms.

If Violet were the type who hated to live alone or was needy of male attention, maybe the cost/benefit analysis would add up. As things stand though, she doesn't need this crap. It's not like he would bring all that much life improvement to her. It's flattering to have him say he wants her, but it's not something to truly consider in the long term.

Edited by shipperx
  • Love 6
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Prince Kuragin needs to do something with his shaggy, mangy-dog hair and take a bath if he wants me to take him seriously as a bed partner for Lady Violet. Surely even his refuge hovel has access to soap, water, and a pair of scissors? Small wonder Spratt stuck his nose in the air - I imagine he stinks.

  • Love 2
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A lot of children go through phases of resembling one or both parents while growing up - but saying a blond toddler resembles Edith or Gregson for sure? Please. Yes, I took it  to mean that Robert had finally put together Edith's "obsession" with Marigold, her months-long visit to Switzerland, her grief over Gregson's death, and realized who Marigold must be.

 

I swear, these are some of the dimmest aristocrats ever. They really can’t put 2 and 2 together. Like last week when Lady Edith went missing and, since it hadn’t occurred to anyone, Atticus suggested looking at the newspaper office she just inherited – YA THINK? I can't imagine how it didn't even cross Robert's mind that Marigold might be Edith's daughter (especially considering, you know, that she went abroad for months and months around the same time Marigold was born). Gah. Morons.

 

Mary, whom I generally enjoy, was just such a bitch for no reason to Edith. I hated Tom for laughing at her “if I’m arrested for murder” joke. And the asinine and juvenile “We'll all go out to lunch, even YOU, Edith.” Shut UP, Mary.

 

This episode solidified something for me: I do not care about the “downstairs” storylines or characters whatsoever. I don’t care about Thomas’s constant dickery and his Yearly Good Deed. Daisy is annoying and her future is irrelevant to anything on the show. Mrs. Patmore had an entire season devoted to her fucking nephew’s fucking memorial. Mr. Carson is always the same old grumpy asshole. The less said about the Bates of Misery, the better. I wish the show could just focus on the interesting characters, all of whom happened to be “upstairs”.

Edited by CleoCaesar
  • Love 4
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I wonder if everyone at Downton gets defensive indigestion before every meal or reception. Not one event seems to pass without some sort of confrontation among the guests.  Carson better set out bowls of Tums and Valium next to the salt cellars.

  • Love 10
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I wonder if everyone at Downton gets defensive indigestion before every meal or reception. Not one event seems to pass without some sort of confrontation among the guests.  Carson better set out bowls of Tums and Valium next to the salt cellars.

Maybe that's why they need large estates. They can avoid one another, except at dinner.

  • Love 1
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I swear, these are some of the dimmest aristocrats ever. They really can’t put 2 and 2 together. Like last week when Lady Edith went missing and, since it hadn’t occurred to anyone, Atticus suggested looking at the newspaper office she just inherited – YA THINK? I can't imagine how it didn't even cross Robert's mind that Marigold might be Edith's daughter (especially considering, you know, that she went abroad for months and months around the same time Marigold was born).

Which leaves Mary and Rose as the only immediate family not in on the "secret" of Marigold's parentage. Rose's self-absorption is more understandable than Mary's, however. I like to think Tom has figured it out and is simply keeping his mouth shut, similar to Mary's sex week with Gillingham

Edited by moonb
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Some unpopular opinions:

 

for once, I didnt think Mary was hateful-- her "even you" just seemed like sister teasing and Edith clearly took it as such. I think she knows she's exaggerating when she tells Tom how can you leave me with her? and I thought she was crying about the changes in the household-- Rose marrying, Tom leaving-- sincerely. I found her scene with Carson touching. Mom cried.

 

Also unpopular I guess: I like Kuragin. I'll be disappointed if he's a fortune hunter. And given that he loved her when he had his own fortune, it's easy to believe he never forgot her. Yes hes "boorish" but it seems dashing and Russian. "You! Over here! Now!" quite a contrast to British reserve. And Violet got all flustered knwoing he was there. Which is cute.

 

I love Violet determined to make Isobel win now. Isobel's words about 'last adventure" hit home.

 

Mary teaching Sibby not to lose was hilarious.

Edith is just more of a doting mother. I didn't think of it at the time, but Robert saying "michael Gregson" makes sense as a shortcut for "love child." And given his tolerance of Mary's affair, I can actually buy it. Been saying all along that it's 1924, not 1884. It's not that big a deal in the long run. Little Marigold will be in her 50s during the disco era. She'll go on the pill in the 60s. She might be a grandma when Duran Duran come out. It's not "The Duchess of Duke Street" where being the illegitimate daughter of a peer will matter much, for very long, and odds are that unlike her mum and aunts, she'll go to college and prepare to do something other than be decorative.

 

not that she'll *have* to earn a living, but she's likely to be ambitious and driven to do something or other. .Mummy will inspire her with her stories of nursing during WWI, and she'll be a nurse in WWII, I predict.

 

I do know conversion is a long process...w hich again makes me question why the rushed engagement (but it's TV). And Judaism and Catholicism both officially dislike people converting "just to get married," but it happened then and now, usually with such things as not having a strong belief and wanting to share one's spouses, family unity, etc.

 

Atticus saying the kids "will know both sides" is more ahistorical, really, if he's been raised by his dad... but whatever. I like the couple, and adore Lady Sinderby. "We pay well, but then, we're Jewish" was hilarious.

 

And loved violet's smirk.

 

Yes Cora is suddenly *very* out about being Jewish after all these years of it never ever coming up. No wonder her own friends dont' know.

 

Susan was beyond. Will Shrimpy tell on her since she did the worst?

 

I think Thomas was just protecting the young kid-- Denker was getting drinks for suckers. I like New Good Thomas.

 

I ship Baxley. So cute. The line about a ring on your finger ans safer... swoon. Ask away, Molesly. She'll say yes!

  • Love 6
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I'm starting to wonder if there's something fishy about Anna's arrest. Like she or Bates (or Mary?) are being set up. By whom and for what reason, I have no idea, but just the way it was all dragged out, the spontaneous line-up with the "witness" who was, originally, supposed to be a woman...I might be giving the show too much credit to think this was the case, but they did come through on the whole train ticket thing so who knows. But is it possible someone's paying Inspector Vyner (or Scotland Yard) off?

 

I thought it was fishy, too.  At first, I thought they were just trying to get Anna to admit she had been raped by Greene by telling them she wasn't the only one.  And trying to use that to get Bates to admit something they could use against him by saying the killer was short (yes, I wanted to kill Greene but didn't). 

 

Then I decided they were trying to get Bates to confess by arresting Anna, figuring he'd do anything to get her out of jail.

 

I still think it's fishy, but I don't know in what way.

 

  • Love 1
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Which leaves Mary and Rose as the only immediate family not in on the "secret" of Marigold's parentage. Rose's self-absorption is more understandable than Mary's, however. I like to think Tom has figured it out and is simply keeping his mouth shut, similar to Mary's sex week with Gillingham

I'm pretty sure Rose would be happy for Edith to finally have her child.  I'm not so sure what Mary's reaction will be.  Could Fellowes finally make her be somewhat human to Edith?  I guess we'll have to wait until next season to find out.  I don't think they will address it during the CS next week (I have no idea what's in the CS).

  • Love 1
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I'd hope Mary's reaction would be to give Edith that Stopes book, tell her where to get the contraceptive device, and send Madge out for it.  

 

Poor Edith.  Her one and only sexual experience led to a baby.  Mary gets a baby, plus all the carefree hotel sex she wants.  Help a gal out, Mary!  Show Edith the way!

  • Love 3
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I'd hope Mary's reaction would be to give Edith that Stopes book, tell her where to get the contraceptive device, and send Madge out for it.  

 

Poor Edith.  Her one and only sexual experience led to a baby.  Mary gets a baby, plus all the carefree hotel sex she wants.  Help a gal out, Mary!  Show Edith the way!

 

Yep. Mary has always escaped the consequences of her actions. Easier for Fellowes to pile on Edith than to have Mary face rugged outcomes for her decisions.

 

I said earlier and will say again...it was good to see Happy Edith. Let's hope it lasts into S6.

  • Love 2
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I'm puzzled about the characters missing from a couple of scenes in this episode:

  1. Why wasn't Edith in the scene with Rose's pre-wedding trousseau review?  Cora, Violet, Isobel and Mary were all there, but no Edith.
  2. Where was Anthony Strallan during the unveiling and dedication of the WWI memorial monument?  Strallan fought and was wounded in the war; wouldn't it have been appropriate for him to have been there?  I guess maybe it would have been too awkward for him to have attended an event where his erstwhile fiancee and her whole family were in attendance?
Edited by officetemp
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