All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Growsonwalls]

It's also interesting that in the last season we saw that in Seattle Carol had moved up to an administrative role in the hospital which was realistic because she had twin girls and Doug was making good money so having a 9-5 job made sense for Carol. 

Looking back one thing I worry about is Joe. With parents like Abby and Luka I don't see Joe turning out to be a happy, well-adjusted child. 

[readster]

9 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

It's also interesting that in the last season we saw that in Seattle Carol had moved up to an administrative role in the hospital which was realistic because she had twin girls and Doug was making good money so having a 9-5 job made sense for Carol. 

Looking back one thing I worry about is Joe. With parents like Abby and Luka I don't see Joe turning out to be a happy, well-adjusted child. 

Joe probably turned into a very needy, "It's all about me" while being a ladies man who never believed anything was ever his fault. 

[Driad]

Has anyone else imagined a patient coming to the ER and the doctor saying, "You're in bad shape, but your condition is not relevant to any of our staff's personal problems, so go away"?

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Driad said:

Has anyone else imagined a patient coming to the ER and the doctor saying, "You're in bad shape, but your condition is not relevant to any of our staff's personal problems, so go away"?

This show, even later on? No. Grey's Anatomy? Constantly.

[txhorns79]

20 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

This show, even later on? No. Grey's Anatomy? Constantly.

I can totally see Sam being like: "Unless you are my murderous ex, a victim of my disturbed son and/or someone with a connection to Tony or Luka, I have no time for you today."

Edited July 8, 2019 by txhorns79

[Dr.OO7]

On 7/6/2019 at 9:01 AM, readster said:

Joe probably turned into a very needy, "It's all about me" while being a ladies man who never believed anything was ever his fault

Maybe moving to Boston for a fresh start was enough to snap both of his parents out of their nonsense.

[Growsonwalls]

Luka/Abby reminded me a bit of Dany/Jon on GoT. The romance was relentlessly pushed even though there wasn't much chemistry between the actors, and one had a feeling the writers didn't know what to do with the characters. So ... well we all know how Game of Thrones turned out. But I feel like the ER writers did the same to Luka/Abby. Just put them through the paces of more and more melodramatic stories hoping it would work and it never did.

[WendyM]

So I'm slogging my way through the Africa episodes, much like during the first run, except this time I'm enjoying them ever-so-slightly because I just heard Mary McCormack on The West Wing Weekly podcast talking about how she got the gig.

It was the last season of The West Wing and John Wells couldn't afford to give everyone a full season and he felt bad, she said. When she met with him, he said he'd put her in some ER episodes to make up for it and she was thrilled to get the work. 

I still wonder about the costumes, as in Debbie's camisole tops, but she didn't mention anything about that, lol.

So I'm slogging my way through the Africa episodes, much like during the first run, except this time I'm enjoying them ever-so-slightly because I just heard Mary McCormack on The West Wing Weekly podcast talking about how she got the gig.

It was the last season of The West Wing and John Wells couldn't afford to give everyone a full season and he felt bad, she said. When she met with him, he said he'd put her in some ER episodes to make up for it and she was thrilled to get the work. 

I still wonder about the costumes, as in Debbie's camisole tops, but she didn't mention anything about that, lol.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Maybe moving to Boston for a fresh start was enough to snap both of his parents out of their nonsense.

Characters on this did seem to (mostly) become more well-adjusted after they left County, no?

Quote

even though there wasn't much chemistry between the actors

I thought they had decent chemistry. Heck, I preferred them to the Carter/Abby pairing...

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, WendyM said:

So I'm slogging my way through the Africa episodes, much like during the first run, except this time I'm enjoying them ever-so-slightly because I just heard Mary McCormack on The West Wing Weekly podcast talking about how she got the gig.

It was the last season of The West Wing and John Wells couldn't afford to give everyone a full season and he felt bad, she said. When she met with him, he said he'd put her in some ER episodes to make up for it and she was thrilled to get the work. 

I think she must be mis-remembering.  She appeared on ER in 2003 before she appeared The West Wing in 2004.  She was a main character on The West Wing about three seasons.  She then returned to ER in 2006, which is the story she seems to be telling in your description, during the last season of The West Wing, for some guest spots.   During that last season of The West Wing, the show was mostly split between White House storylines and campaign storylines, so most of the main cast was only seen in every other episode.  

[WendyM]

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think she must be mis-remembering.  She appeared on ER in 2003 before she appeared The West Wing in 2004.  She was a main character on The West Wing about three seasons.  She then returned to ER in 2006, which is the story she seems to be telling in your description, during the last season of The West Wing, for some guest spots.   During that last season of The West Wing, the show was mostly split between White House storylines and campaign storylines, so most of the main cast was only seen in every other episode.  

I'm probably misremembering what she said! Or when I was listening to the podcast I had forgotten she had already appeared on ER. It's very possible she meant John Wells offered to bring her back to ER during that last season of The West Wing. Her ER character was perhaps not meant to come back?

From what you're saying, it sounds like she was hired for The West Wing perhaps because of her ER work...? I don't know.

Her story was apropos how John Wells was a great guy and a great showrunner, how she needed the money, how expensive the show was getting to be by that last season, and that most of the main cast couldn't be in all episodes. And as you say, the plotlines made it work (for better or for worse). 

[txhorns79]

54 minutes ago, WendyM said:

From what you're saying, it sounds like she was hired for The West Wing perhaps because of her ER work...? I don't know. 

Oh, I have no idea.  However, I wouldn't be shocked if her ER appearance was something of an audition for the other role. 

[WendyM]

I've hit season 13, with the new version of the theme song and the Return of Maggie. I'm now in full force hate-watching. It feels familiar. It feels right.

So I play this game with myself when certain situations come up, like when Clemente goes off the deep end (was Bobby a figment of his imagination in the end? I refuse to go back and rewatch) or Sam and NuAlex (he will always be NuAlex to me) get kidnapped by the guy from The Mindy Project.

The game is this: I try to imagine old characters being around for these over-the-top, un-ER-like situations. I get that Mark Greene was mugged in the men's room, so it's not that violence didn't exist before Sam's husband shoots up the ER with the guy from Six Feet Under who terrorized David that time.

But can we imagine Doug Ross being around for any of this? I say--like others have said in this thread--the whole ER dynamic shifted when Doug left and it turned out Carol was pregnant and then Doug uncharacteristically didn't come around while she was lugging his kids around. I suggest that Carol actually gave birth to Abby's mom, Abby's brother, Abby and Luka, Sam and Alex, Sam and the guy who is definitely munching on nuts and bolts when he talks to her (Armand Assante), Clemente, Africa...and more Africa and let's not forget Kem. The fact that Luka had the hots for PregnantCarol tells me he was the carrier and he infected her, so maybe I should blame him for everything. 

In other words, I blame Carol and her eyebrows and her spawn for everything that resulted. If the show had ended with the twins staring at a snow globe, I wouldn't have been surprised.

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 7:09 AM, WendyM said:

. 

In other words, I blame Carol and her eyebrows and her spawn for everything that resulted. If the show had ended with the twins staring at a snow globe, I wouldn't have been surprised.

Nice St. Elsewhere tie-in.

the show definitely gets worse for wear and there are some story arcs that are real head scratchers. I never like "actor comes on; his character shakes things up; but turns out, he's nuts!" storylines.

But the last season does a nice job of pulling in the old crew and wrapping things up. Hang in there.

[readster]

2 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

Nice St. Elsewhere tie-in.

the show definitely gets worse for wear and there are some story arcs that are real head scratchers. I never like "actor comes on; his character shakes things up; but turns out, he's nuts!" storylines.

Yeah, way, way too much of that the last 3 seasons leading to the final season. Yes, things get wrapped up with a  nice bow. But seriously, so much stunt casting and to the point where you wanted to go: "People couldn't just do that and walk away, especially post 9/11.

[WendyM]

2 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

Nice St. Elsewhere tie-in.

the show definitely gets worse for wear and there are some story arcs that are real head scratchers. I never like "actor comes on; his character shakes things up; but turns out, he's nuts!" storylines.

But the last season does a nice job of pulling in the old crew and wrapping things up. Hang in there.

Yeah, I watched it the first time around so I know about the final season, but these last few seasons are making me forget the good, lol. The stunt casting is a bit out of control. 

[txhorns79]

8 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

But the last season does a nice job of pulling in the old crew and wrapping things up. Hang in there.

The final season is pretty good.  The regular cast is small, Abby leaves the show fairly quickly, Angela Basset is a strong addition and they know it is going to end, so they are working towards that goal, but with a lot of nostalgia. 

[Growsonwalls]

Yeah the final season was great but one thing that upset me was that in the series finale Kem was still so cold to Carter. Last we saw her she was speed-walking away from him. All she promises is that she might have breakfast with him. And she doesn't even want to be in Chicago because it reminds her of her dead son? 

So for a really beloved character Carter didn't have the happy ending that I wanted for him.

It was a real contrast to the follow-up on Doug and Carol in Seattle where they seemed like the type of married couple that still has sex every night.

[Hiyo]

I loved the Benton and Corday reunion in the finale. Apologies to Cleo (and Mark's ghost), but you know they ended up breaking her hotel bed in two later that night off-screen.

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, Hiyo said:

I loved the Benton and Corday reunion in the finale. Apologies to Cleo (and Mark's ghost), but you know they ended up breaking her hotel bed in two later that night off-screen.

Oh yeah, the chemistry was so hot that Reese noticed. Since that's the last shot we ever got of them I choose to believe they ended up breaking the hotel bed in two later that night as well.

[Growsonwalls]

One thing I was thinking about: it's ironic that Benton was written as a cold, introverted loner because Eriq La Salle had amazing chemistry with a bunch of actors on the show. Of course his chemistry with Carter/Noah Wyle was off the charts, but also Alex Kingston (Corday), Paul McCrane (Romano), the child who played Reese, and Gloria Reuben (Jeannie). The bedroom eyes and "omg I want some sexytimes with you asap" grin Benton gave Corday in the series finale was a great example of that. I'm not even sure the writers were angling for "let's give the LizBenton 'shippers a final moment." I just think the chemistry between the two actors was strong enough that the scene played out the way it did.

[Hiyo]

And then they stuck him with Cleo...and paired off Corday with Mark. 2 black holes of anti-chemistry...

Quote

 I just think the chemistry between the two actors was strong enough that the scene played out the way it did.

Which is ironic, since Eric La Salle was the reason the Benton/Corday relationship ended...

Edited September 8, 2019 by Hiyo

[Growsonwalls]

20 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

And then they stuck him with Cleo...and paired off Corday with Mark. 2 black holes of anti-chemistry...

Which is ironic, since Eric La Salle was the reason the Benton/Corday relationship ended...

Tell me about it. I could see La Salle's point but the chemistry between him and Kingston was so great. However I did like that even after they broke up Lizzie and Benton had a warm professional relationship. That was really nice. 

Another couple with anti-chemistry was Carol and Shep. Ron Eldard was Julianna Marguiles' RL bf at the time so I can only attribute it to Joey's theory of performance chemistry:

[Guest]

On 9/2/2019 at 9:55 PM, WendyM said:

I'm probably misremembering what she said! Or when I was listening to the podcast I had forgotten she had already appeared on ER. It's very possible she meant John Wells offered to bring her back to ER during that last season of The West Wing. Her ER character was perhaps not meant to come back?

From what you're saying, it sounds like she was hired for The West Wing perhaps because of her ER work...? I don't know.

Her story was apropos how John Wells was a great guy and a great showrunner, how she needed the money, how expensive the show was getting to be by that last season, and that most of the main cast couldn't be in all episodes. And as you say, the plotlines made it work (for better or for worse). 

I took it how you took it - that they wrote her into a couple episodes of ER to make up for the money she lost by not being in TWW episodes.  So either she misremembered or explained it wrong.

[Dr.OO7]

On 9/8/2019 at 2:11 PM, Growsonwalls said:

Lizzie and Benton had a warm professional relationship. That was really nice. 

They always worked better as friends. Racial difference or not, I always thought they were doomed regardless. She was vivacious and fun-loving, he was. . . NOT.

POP is having a "special guest star" marathon starting at 2pm Sunday.

And they'll be having bi-weekly marathons Wednesdays and Thursdays, starting this week.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Camille

[RedbirdNelly]

I agree on wishing Carter had a happier sign off in the finale. I also would have liked it if the Peter/Corday reunion included a "yea, Cleo and I are good friends but no longer together. . . " so I could imagine the hotel meeting with no guilt of anybody cheating on anybody. . .

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I agree on wishing Carter had a happier sign off in the finale. I also would have liked it if the Peter/Corday reunion included a "yea, Cleo and I are good friends but no longer together. . . " so I could imagine the hotel meeting with no guilt of anybody cheating on anybody. . .

Well Cleo's only mention was when Carter asked about Reese and Benton said with the enthusiasm of someone doing his taxes "he's with Cleo." They're not married, they don't have additional kids, and it sounded like whatever non-existent spark between them was long gone. So I'm not THAT guilty that Peter and Corday looked ready for some serious sexytimes.

Maybe it's just because I never could care about Cleo in any way, shape or form.

[RedbirdNelly]

that's helpful. I'm now taking the view "he's with Cleo" means they are split up but she is still involved with Reese. . . they are friends.. . . hello, non-guilty Peter/Corday reunion.

[Growsonwalls]

56 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

that's helpful. I'm now taking the view "he's with Cleo" means they are split up but she is still involved with Reese. . . they are friends.. . . hello, non-guilty Peter/Corday reunion.

Also thinking it would be nice for Reese to have a caretaker/babysitter who wasn't a robot. And Reese's reaction was so cute. He was like "Oh so this is how Dad is when he LIKES someone."

[Hiyo]

Quote

I always thought they were doomed regardless. She was vivacious and fun-loving, he was. . . NOT.

I always thought she was bringing out the best of him, slowly. See...

Edited September 18, 2019 by Hiyo

[RedbirdNelly]

2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I always thought she was bringing out the best of him, slowly. See...

that was my take, as well.

I realize that long running shows have to have storylines which normally leads to couple breaking up or other disasters but absent a reason to split them up, I envisioned them together with each benefiting from it.

[Dr.OO7]

On 9/7/2019 at 2:39 PM, Growsonwalls said:

It was a real contrast to the follow-up on Doug and Carol in Seattle where they seemed like the type of married couple that still has sex every night.

I loved that final footnote. I just wish we could have seen them with the girls, all together as a family, or heard that they'd had one or more kids.

[WendyCR72]

On 9/7/2019 at 2:39 PM, Growsonwalls said:

So for a really beloved character Carter didn't have the happy ending that I wanted for him.

I don't know. He was shown with old friends (Peter, Susan, Kerry, etc.) and seemed happiest to be accompanying Susan and Rachel back to County. I think Carter's ending, helping at County again, was his true calling. I recall Carter had to decide whether to call Kem or not. Personally, I think he chose Chicago/County. And I think that did make him happy.

[WendyM]

Just finished the entire series rewatch. I did remember a few of the highlights but there were other things I'd forgotten:

• Sam and Gates with the little hand-holding thing after he helped Alex restore that Mustang for her birthday; I do hope they ended up together and Sarah ended up going away to boarding school. What a pissy kid. They also dropped the Alex-knew-his-mother-killed-his-father storyline, right? (I wasn't glued to the rewatch so it's possible I missed it.)
• Kem was even pissier (that's my Word of the Day, lol) than I remember. Yes, it was a nice gesture to come to the Carter Center opening. But she should have stayed in her hotel room.
• I completely forgot Rory Gilmore showed up in the final episode as an intern (med student? I think intern).
• I had also completely forgotten that Neela ended up working in Louisiana with Ray. Ray!
• Archie ended up being a competent doctor and a great guy! And he got a nice girl!

It looks like I'd forgotten more than I remembered but my overall feeling this time around is that Carter ended up back at County, actually taking a paycheck because he might need the money. And I believe he's happy. And Kem stays in Paris for good. 

And why didn't Elizabeth give Peter a ride in her ridiculous rental car after their group hang? I'd like to think it's because he didn't want Cleo to see them together. Right? Right.

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, WendyM said:

Archie ended up being a competent doctor and a great guy! And he got a nice girl!

I think Archie 's was the most complete and convincing character redemption of any show I can remember.  He went from clueless douchey stoner to "You set the tone".  And I somehow totally bought it.

[WendyM]

14 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

I think Archie 's was the most complete and convincing character redemption of any show I can remember.  He went from clueless douchey stoner to "You set the tone".  And I somehow totally bought it.

Me too! They really handled that gradual turn very well. He still had the goofy but he backed it up with smart doctor stuff.

[ch1]

23 hours ago, WendyM said:

Just finished the entire series rewatch. I did remember a few of the highlights but there were other things I'd forgotten:

• Sam and Gates with the little hand-holding thing after he helped Alex restore that Mustang for her birthday; I do hope they ended up together and Sarah ended up going away to boarding school. What a pissy kid. They also dropped the Alex-knew-his-mother-killed-his-father storyline, right? (I wasn't glued to the rewatch so it's possible I missed it.)
• Kem was even pissier (that's my Word of the Day, lol) than I remember. Yes, it was a nice gesture to come to the Carter Center opening. But she should have stayed in her hotel room.
• I completely forgot Rory Gilmore showed up in the final episode as an intern (med student? I think intern).
• I had also completely forgotten that Neela ended up working in Louisiana with Ray. Ray!
• Archie ended up being a competent doctor and a great guy! And he got a nice girl!

It looks like I'd forgotten more than I remembered but my overall feeling this time around is that Carter ended up back at County, actually taking a paycheck because he might need the money. And I believe he's happy. And Kem stays in Paris for good. 

And why didn't Elizabeth give Peter a ride in her ridiculous rental car after their group hang? I'd like to think it's because he didn't want Cleo to see them together. Right? Right.

I like to think Susan and Carter tried again.  She was divorced in the final episode and Carter did comment on how great she looks.  Anything as long he let Kem go.  The idea that he stayed with her misery for YEARS bothered me.  My boy deserved better.

[WendyM]

1 hour ago, ch1 said:

I like to think Susan and Carter tried again.  She was divorced in the final episode and Carter did comment on how great she looks.  Anything as long he let Kem go.  The idea that he stayed with her misery for YEARS bothered me.  My boy deserved better.

Of course! Why didn't I think of that? And she gave him some fond looks too. He's all grown up now, so I bet they tried again. All those years in Africa aged him even more, too.

[WendyCR72]

Wow, and here I thought everyone hated Susan/Carter together! I'd like to think they tried again, too. I sometimes wonder if that inference was the intent, since - when Susan announced her divorce - I think she joked about dating younger men. And the fact that she alone (in terms of Lizzie, Kerry, etc.) walked with him back to County with Rachel.

Otherwise, why have her divorced at all? She could have simply said Chuck was at home with their kid while she was back in Chicago. Shrug.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I'd like to think Susan and Carter just stayed good friends and he became "Uncle Carter" to Cosmo (who by now has legally changed his name, I hope, otherwise I imagine him as a vaping instagram influencer with an "I ❤️ mom" tattoo and a pencil-thin mustache). I'm still not over her being so insensitive to when Sobriki showed back up in season 8 and how she went to the hockey game that night anyway.

eta: ok so I guess Cosmo's still a teen, but maybe he changed his name anyway with permission. And he probably is into vaping though.

Edited September 26, 2019 by MVFrostsMyPie

[Dr.OO7]

I agree with all those who praise the Archie arc.

It's amazing. I absolutely hated him when he started, but his evolution was magnificent and realistic--it didn't happen overnight, but bit by bit.

As apparently one of the only people who liked Carter and Kem together, I hope they did eventually work things out, but they seem like a classic example of a couple that just can't make it work no matter how much they love each other.

[Bastet]

I think the only romantic relationship of Carter's I liked is the one that never got off the ground, with Maria Bello's character. 

He and Susan were so devoid of chemistry it was a case study in bad ideas.  (Susan never had good chemistry with any of her love interests - although no one could be expected to do so with that gross, greasy guy she married.)

He and Kem were fine as something that would only last while they were on the project together, but then she got pregnant and they not only used that as a reason to force it into something more, it never stopped even though they didn't actually wind up parenting - the grief shadow of that dead baby kept them from fully cutting ties like they should have.  It was all very weird and sad. 

[WendyCR72]

54 minutes ago, Bastet said:

He and Susan were so devoid of chemistry it was a case study in bad ideas.  (Susan never had good chemistry with any of her love interests

I have to go with whom she was paired with and/or the writing then. Because, in her soap days on Guiding Light, Sherry Stringfield had chemistry with everyone.

But then, I don't think - outside of Doug and Carol - ANY romance on this show really worked, so I sense a theme.  😉

[doodlebug]

54 minutes ago, Bastet said:

He and Susan were so devoid of chemistry it was a case study in bad ideas.  (Susan never had good chemistry with any of her love interests - although no one could be expected to do so with that gross, greasy guy she married.)

I think Susan had good friendship chemistry with Mark, and, had she not left the show in Season 3, she would've probably ended up with him.  I think they would've had far more romantic chemistry than he did with Elizabeth and there was potential there for a good solid romantic couple.  If there would've been any chemistry deficiencies in the pairing, it would've been with AE/Mark, IMO.  He played Mark so low key, mellow that he seemed almost devoid of emotion much of the time.

Edited September 26, 2019 by doodlebug

[Bastet]

6 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I think Susan had good friendship chemistry with Mark,

I do, too, but zero sexual tension, so that hinted-at future pairing always played as one-sided to me; Mark had a crush, but she only felt friendship.

7 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

had she not left the show in Season 3, she would've probably ended up with him.

I'm sure they'd have been together for a while, but I don't know that they'd have been end game.  In any event, in that sense I'm glad she left; for however long it lasted, that would have received a lot of story time for something that I'm sure I would not have enjoyed. 

[Dr.OO7]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

I think the only romantic relationship of Carter's I liked is the one that never got off the ground, with Maria Bello's character.

Technically, same here, although as stated before, I did like Carter and Kem.

[RedbirdNelly]

I liked the fact that Archie becomes competent and a good guy but I will be the dissenter on that being realistic. I think they way overdid the "he's an idiot" part of his character when he first joined. I would have bought the turn around as realistic if they had dialed it back some where he looked more like Carter did when he first started--green but not an idiot. So, I just chose to forget about the initial incompetence and roll with the fact he somehow changed course without going back to school. I did really like his girlfriend at the end. They had a nice spark.

[Dr.OO7]

9 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I think they way overdid the "he's an idiot" part of his character when he first joined

It's also inconsistent. He was actually halfway decent for his first few episodes before turning into a moron.

[Dr.OO7]

POP re-aired "Hell & High Water" this afternoon.

WOW. No matter how many times I rewatch it, it never fails to be riveting. TV at it's best. The episode that made me a die-hard fan of the show.

[lastminutemaniac]

I've been watching this series for the past few months and I'm in the middle of season 8 now. Got a real love-hate relationship with it. It really does have its moments, which have kept me watching all this time, but other times.......man, does it piss me off!

When it's good it's phenomenal, but gosh...it's rife with odd plot decisions and SO many mean-spirited (or just plain gross) jokes. I really had to quit watching "Secrets and Lies" after Carter revealed he "lost his virginity" to a 25 year old woman when he was 11 and Susan and Abby laughed. A child molestation joke, and they just sweep it under the rug. Made me sick. I bet it's never going to be brought up again. I have no idea why anyone thought that was a good thing to include. Nobody through the whole production process spoke up and said "Hey, maybe we shouldn't turn child sexual abuse into a joke?"