All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[voiceover]

37 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Based on what we saw, Abby almost had to have conceived the first time they slept together.

Well, as the nuns say, it only takes once?

My schedule has changed so I'm no longer mainlining eps.  So when I drop back in, I'm always confused.

[KBrownie]

52 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I could do without another "oops" pregnancy, though, and it's beyond tiresome how women on TV who don't want kids almost always change their mind.  Having the abortion would have made a lot more sense for the character, and it would have been refreshing to see.  But, of course not - it's still TV's third rail to an extent, never mind back then.

Abortion would have been true to Abby's character, but it would have been beyond cruel to take Luka through losing another child after what happened with his kids in Croatia.  Credit to the writers for allowing him to step back and let it be Abby's decision and not have him bring that into play.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Abortion would have been true to Abby's character, but it would have been beyond cruel to take Luka through losing another child after what happened with his kids in Croatia.  Credit to the writers for allowing him to step back and let it be Abby's decision and not have him bring that into play.

An abortion also would've eliminated the only storyline really left for the character.   Abby's career path had been explored thoroughly as a nurse, medical student and now resident.  She'd done every job but maintenance and unit secretary in that ER. She still had a couple of more years of residency before she could become the best attending ever.  We've already seen all the family she's close to, ad nauseum (although Papa does turn up for a scene or two in an upcoming episode in a storyline that doesn't go anywhere).

As for her romantic history, we've seen her with her estranged husband, in the midst of a bitter divorce and then perhaps moving on into a more stable relationship with him.  Abby's had casual relationships with motorcycle guy, Jake the student, and even Luka the first time around (if any relationship that begins with someone getting beaten to death can be considered casual).  Shed had a serious relationship with Carter that came to the verge of an engagement (and might've been end game for Abby if Noah Wyle had signed on for more seasons instead of occasional visits).  She'd run the gamut on romantic relationships and there was just one option left.

The only thing left for Abby at this point was a committed relationship and a child.  And it had to be with a main cast member so her personal life could remain front burner on the show.  That left Luka.  While he was able to accept Abby's decision to terminate, I don't think there is any way that he could have continued in a serious relationship with her after that.  Also, Maura Tierney was 40ish and looked it; waiting much longer and it would be hard to sell an unplanned pregnancy (and thank God, we didn't get an Abby infertility storyline) to the audience.  So, knowing that Abby's ultimate personal storyline was marriage and a kid, it was time for it to happen and an abortion at that point wouldn't have made sense.

Edited December 10, 2017 by doodlebug

[KBrownie]

4 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

An abortion also would've eliminated the only storyline really left for the character.   Abby's career path had been explored thoroughly as a nurse, medical student and now resident.  She'd done every job but maintenance and unit secretary in that ER. She still had a couple of more years of residency before she could become the best attending ever.  We've already seen all the family she's close to, ad nauseum (although Papa does turn up for a scene or two in an upcoming episode in a storyline that doesn't go anywhere).

As for her romantic history, we've seen her with her estranged husband, in the midst of a bitter divorce and then perhaps moving on into a more stable relationship with him.  Abby's had casual relationships with motorcycle guy, Jake the student, and even Luka the first time around (if any relationship that begins with someone getting beaten to death can be considered casual).  Shed had a serious relationship with Carter that came to the verge of an engagement (and might've been end game for Abby if Noah Wyle had signed on for more seasons instead of occasional visits).  She'd run the gamut on romantic relationships and there was just one option left.

The only thing left for Abby at this point was a committed relationship and a child.  And it had to be with a main cast member so her personal life could remain front burner on the show.  That left Luka.  While he was able to accept Abby's decision to terminate, I don't think there is any way that he could have continued in a serious relationship with her after that.  Also, Maura Tierney was 40ish and looked it; waiting much longer and it would be hard to sell an unplanned pregnancy (and thank God, we didn't get an Abby infertility storyline) to the audience.  So, knowing that Abby's ultimate personal storyline was marriage and a kid, it was time for it to happen and an abortion at that point wouldn't have made sense.

6

I'll just say that I disagree that Luka was a default choice for Abby.  They had a history to build on and it was nice to see them allowed to just be and not have any constant interference from an outsider *cough* Carter *cough*, unlike the first time they were a couple.  And they had remained connected and supportive of each other throughout the time they were apart.

I'll also disagree that Carter was the more serious relationship for Abby when compared to Luka.  Luka and Abby 1.0 were never allowed to just be so I guess Carter would seem more serious by comparison.  Carter was always around and was inserted in that relationship almost from the start.  Even though Abby was the one who pursued Luka, the show went out of its way to make him seem controlling or irrational for daring not to like that Carter was the one that Abby went to with her problems, or that Carter brought his entitled attitude to the hospital.  I'll never forget Abby being pissed at Luka for appropriately pulling rank at the hospital when Carter wouldn't listen.  That's actually when I started to not like him.  He enjoyed causing problems and being in Abby's ear about Luka.  His continued pissy attitude (especially at the hospital) with Luka throughout Seasons 7 and 8, who had done nothing to him, was majorly annoying.  Carter acted like he was entitled to Abby when he came back from rehab and was shocked when she didn't just drop Luka to be with him.  His snotty attitude carried over into Season 8 when Abby didn't run to him immediately after breaking up with Luka.  But when Carter and Abby got together, Carter got to be the long-suffering and patient boyfriend who had to deal with the crazy family and moody Abby.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, KBrownie said:

I'll just say that I disagree that Luka was a default choice for Abby.

I'll also disagree that Carter was the more serious relationship for Abby when compared to Luka.  Luka and Abby 1.0 were never allowed to just be so I guess Carter would seem more serious by comparison.  Carter was always around and was inserted in that relationship almost from the start.  Even though Abby was the one who pursued Luka, the show went out of its way to make him seem controlling or irrational for daring not to like that Carter was the one that Abby went to with her problems, or that Carter brought his entitled attitude to the hospital.  I'll never forget Abby being pissed at Luka for appropriately pulling rank at the hospital when Carter wouldn't listen.  That's actually when I started to not like him.  He enjoyed causing problems and being in Abby's ear about Luka.  His continued pissy attitude (especially at the hospital) with Luka throughout Seasons 7 and 8, who had done nothing to him, was majorly annoying.  Carter acted like he was entitled to Abby when he came back from rehab and was shocked when she didn't just drop Luka to be with him.  His snotty attitude carried over into Season 8 when Abby didn't run to him immediately after breaking up with Luka.  But when Carter and Abby got together, Carter got to be the long-suffering and patient boyfriend who had to deal with the crazy family and moody Abby.

I don’t disagree that Luka and Abby had history upon which to build, but their initial relationship was never based on much more than physical attraction.  I’d also say that Carter was hardly the main obstacle they faced.  Abby and her relationship with Maggie and her inability/unwillingness to let Luka in which was summarized in the scene where she sat crying alone in the bathroom while he sept in the next room was a major factor.  Luka’s stoicism and unwillingness to share his feelings with her didn’t help either.  As far as the relationship with Carter, Abby gladly welcomed him into the middle of the triangle, complaining that Luka never got jealous, as if that were a bad thing and jumping all over Luka for trying to help with Maggie while allowing Carter to interject himself into the situation without even asking.  And Abby constantly took her problems with Luka to Carter who finally had to tell her to stop.  Luka hit the nail on the head when he told Abby she behaved like a school girl playing one off the other.  That is exactly what she did.

While the writing eventually swung around  to favor Luka and Abby; I think the whole triangle was created to give the writers options and, if NW had stayed on full time (and wanted the relationship), Carter wouldve ended up with Abby and Sam would’ve been Luka’s one true love.  There was nothing about Luby 1.0 that smacked of destiny or true love or permanence.

[KBrownie]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

While the writing eventually swung around  to favor Luka and Abby; I think the whole triangle was created to give the writers options and, if NW had stayed on full time (and wanted the relationship), Carter wouldve ended up with Abby and Sam would’ve been Luka’s one true love.  There was nothing about Luby 1.0 that smacked of destiny or true love or permanence.

Well, thank goodness that the all mighty NW, who I never found to be all that special or deserving of such power (if he had it) to dictate relationships for not only his character but several others as well, chose not to stick around because Carter and Abby were the definition of anti-chemistry.  It really says something that they only reason they were a thing was because NW wanted it.  Very organic, lol.  They were all right as friends when they weren't engaging in juvenile antics, but the romance was definitely not one of ER's best decisions, NW or not.  It really played as Carter wanting Abby because he couldn't have her when he wanted.  He wanted to beat Luka at something just as much as he supposedly wanted Abby.  As soon as he had what he had what he wanted, it was then that her family was too much and she wasn't what he thought it was going to be.

 

And I never said Luka and Abby the first time around smacked of destiny or true love.  They never got a chance to explore much of that before Carter was thrown into the mix.  And yes, Abby was just a responsible for allowing Carter to become such a factor.  My thoughts on that are not so much that she was romantically attracted to Carter because she never showed one iota of interest in Carter romantically while she was with Luka, she just wanted to, because of her own issues, sabotage things with Luka and Carter was a more than willing and eager participant.  I wonder if NW was okay with looking like a petulant ass during that arc if he had so much sway.  And I don't feel like it was all physical with Luka and Abby either.  Sure, they had issues, but they certainly had their moments of genuine care and affection for each other which continued throughout the duration of the time they weren't together.  Luka and Sam as true love?  Please.  Luka just wanted to be a father again and Sam needed some stability.  If any relationship was mainly physical, it was that one.  They had nothing in common other than Alex.

[Bastet]

22 minutes ago, KBrownie said:

Luka and Sam as true love?  Please.  Luka just wanted to be a father again and Sam needed some stability.  If any relationship was mainly physical, it was that one.  They had nothing in common other than Alex.

There has always been something mildly creepy - well, maybe not even creepy, just desperate - about Luka's quest for a second chance at fatherhood.  He seemed more enamored of Carol's fetuses than her, he was all in when Julie Delpy did whatever the hell she did, he fell in love with Alex as much as he did with Sam, etc. 

Reason number 17 abortion would have been the better option for Abby, but once there's an actual child in existence I suspect he'll be a decent to good father.  And I'm glad to hear he respects terminating/continuing as Abby's choice to make, whatever his choice would be if it existed in an alternate reality, as he's always struck me as a basically good guy, other than his violent temper.

[slasherboy]

I have a question:  Watching "Dear Abby".  What is the diagnosis for the girl who knows she has something serious but her parents won't tell her what it is.  At the end, Abby tells her but it's a scene through the glass and we don't hear what she says.  Anybody know what it is?

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, slasherboy said:

I have a question:  Watching "Dear Abby".  What is the diagnosis for the girl who knows she has something serious but her parents won't tell her what it is.  At the end, Abby tells her but it's a scene through the glass and we don't hear what she says.  Anybody know what it is?

Primary pulmonary hypertension.  It is usually fatal within a few years of diagnosis.  There are some medications that can help, but no cure.

As always, the show fudged the timeline on diagnosis to amp up the drama.  In real life, a cardiac catheterization would be needed and nobody would tell her or her parents that this was absolutely the diagnosis in the ER.

I think we were supposed to assume that Abby told the girl she was dying against her parents’ wishes since Abby always knows best and the parents, despite having known her all her life, could not possibly be right if Abby disagreed.  Of course, in real life, after seeing the girl’s distress, the attending would’ve taken the parents aside, told them their daughter already suspected the worst and they might want to rethink their strategy.

Abby’s probable behavior here is another version of Ray’s arrogance when dealing with the woman who refused the cesarean.  The constant interference of  ER staff in the lives of their patients is really annoying and, in real life, would get them fired.

7 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Well, thank goodness that the all mighty NW, who I never found to be all that special or deserving of such power (if he had it) to dictate relationships for not only his character but several others as well, chose not to stick around because Carter and Abby were the definition of anti-chemistry.  

NW is hardly the first star of a show to drive storyline for his character, not even the first on ER. ELS openly admitted he torpedoed Benton/Corday because he wanted Benton in a successful relationship with a black woman.  AE wanted Mark in a front burner relationship with a main cast member and thus we got Mark/Elizabeth.  NW also objected to Carter hooking up with a med student (and apparently didn’t get along with Kellie Martin) and Carter/Lucy went away, thank God.

I think that what actors want for their characters is often at odds with what fans want.  I don’t think NW minded assy Carter, after years of Carter being the sweet puppy (though always ambitious and not above underhanded moves); he wanted the chance to do something different.  I remember NW being surprised when a fan told him how much she loved Carby, he was kinda incredulous that anyone thought that was romantic.

As far as the way the relationships played out, I don’t think NW is a very strong romantic lead and neither is MT.  Together, they couldn’t generate the heat.   Meanwhile, GV has that skill set and he could use it to heighten MT’s game.  

These characters aren’t real and they’re manipulated by the writers to suit their whims.  If they’d wanted to make Carby their endgame, it would’ve happened.  Just as Luby 1.0 crashed and burned (as did Doug/Carol1.0); TPTB could well have reunited them in a happy relationship if that was feasible (and NW stayed). 

I do agree that Luka’s fixation on Carol’s twins was really creepy. TPTB might’ve thought it was endearing, but not so much.

[justduckey]

I just can’t like Shane West’s character. I think I hate him almost as much as Kristen Johnston’s character. Ugh. Whom I hate almost as much as John Leguizamo’s. Season 12 is a real poop show.

Oh, hello John Stamos. Hadnt remembered he started as a paramedic before joining the er. I suspect I will not enjoy Uncle Jessie’s reign on er either.

Im just so happy when kerry appears bc she’s familiar.  And Haleh. And Chuny.

Bring on season 15, which at the rate we’re flying through episodes should be by early January??

Edited December 10, 2017 by justduckey

[Bastet]

Morris is the one I cannot even deal with; he's annoying and incompetent, so let's not keep him around a bit for humor at his expense and then dispatch with him, but instead keep him around and around and around and then make him Chief Resident.   Huh?

Ray is annoying, too, though.

John Leguizamo's character I can't get a read on; I'm not sure the writers really know what to do with him. 

And I've never remotely connected to the surgeon (I don't know his name, but played by the guy who did a great job in an episode of SVU, as Tate's dad), so in a weird way it's like the surgery side of things doesn't exist any more for me, which after Benton and Corday is a big change.

I kind of liked Eve, despite being the usual "outsider tries to make changes, but she just doesn't understand how our heroes work" caricature, but they never developed her, either.

It's what virtually always happens on long-running shows; characters are more one-dimensional representations of types than actual characters.  Another reason I find it comforting when Kerry, Luka, or Abby are the ones on my screen.

[Zoe]

One thing I do like about this cast generation is the friendship between Abby and Neela. You didn't see much of Carol and Susan after the first season, and Mark and Doug got too antagonistic near the end. Any cross-gender friendship had trouble remaining platonic.

[Bastet]

19 minutes ago, Zoe said:

One thing I do like about this cast generation is the friendship between Abby and Neela.

I like that, too.  I also liked the friendship between Abby and Susan; that had to evolve, and it did so nicely.  I liked that back in the beginning, when they weren't friends, Susan still invited Abby to stay at her place until the neighbor who beat her up was picked up.

Quote

Any cross-gender friendship had trouble remaining platonic.

Yeah, they didn't do any better with that than most shows, which is sad for something that lasted as long as/had as many characters as it did.  Mark and Carol developed a nice friendship after Doug left, but is that the only truly platonic friendship between men and women we've seen?  Corday and Romano in the sense there was never any dating or sex, but he had a raging crush on her.  Same with Carter and Maggie; that was a fun friendship, but he wanted it to be more.  Same with him and Maria Bello's character, too.  Mark and Susan count as half a platonic friendship to me, too, I guess - I never saw any interest on Susan's part, and I thought the post-divorce interest on Mark's part was a  yearning for the comfortable and familiar rather than a true romantic/sexual attraction. 

I think Abby and Carter were good as friends, so I was glad to see the hint of a return to that after the break-up.  And Benton and Corday had a great friendship after their romantic relationship ended.  

Edited December 10, 2017 by Bastet

[WendyCR72]

I think Susan/Carter managed to remain friends after their fling - and even after the tenure crap. So that's one more. But I do think there was an issue with male/female friendships on this show (and others, but as this is the ER forum...).

[Gigi43]

Carter and Chen had problems but over all it was an okay relationship though at times like Carter being there for Chens delivery it felt like they were really trying to do another/replace Mark and Carol. I love the relationship Benton and Corday maintained  after their short  dating time.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I think Susan/Carter managed to remain friends after their fling - and even after the tenure crap. So that's one more. But I do think there was an issue with male/female friendships on this show (and others, but as this is the ER forum...).

Ray and Neela seem to be fairly supportive room mates, and Chen and Pratt eventually became pretty good friends (he helped cover up the euthanization of her dad by signing the death certificate).  I'd also say that Carter and Chen had a pretty good rapport including his presence for labor support when she gave birth as well as multiple other scenes of them being supportive of one another.  Benton/Corday and even Corday/Romano had fairly decent friendships, too.

[voiceover]

This time around, I see Morris as their attempt to redo Malucci -- The sometimes-barely competent party boy who finally makes good.  Erik Palladino brought a different vibe to the gang of regulars (as did Maria Bello), and I wish they could've fixed that character.  Obviously they succeeded with Morris.

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, voiceover said:

This time around, I see Morris as their attempt to redo Malucci -- The sometimes-barely competent party boy who finally makes good.  Erik Palladino brought a different vibe to the gang of regulars (as did Maria Bello), and I wish they could've fixed that character.  Obviously they succeeded with Morris.

I’m not so sure they succeeded with Morris; I think they just decided to force it.   Scott Grimes lucked out in that he started on the show at a time when all the original cast was either gone or on the way out and LI was reduced to recurring status and AK leaving. Meanwhile, Erik Palladino got cast when AE and NW were still there and LI and AK were main cast regulars.  He also joined at the same time as MT who obviously became the female lead on the show and got a lot of screen time. There wasn’t room for Malucci’s story.  By the time Morris came along, secondary characters like him weren’t getting story arcs anyway, so he could be magically transformed someplace offscreen.

While Morris was Malucci 2.0, I think the character benefited more from the thinning of the herd than from any fixing of the character’s story.

Edited December 11, 2017 by doodlebug

[desertflower]

On 12/10/2017 at 7:45 AM, doodlebug said:

 I don’t think NW is a very strong romantic lead and neither is MT.  Together, they couldn’t generate the heat

I agree with this, esp regarding Carter, and I've never been sure of why that was. NW was a good looking guy, but his love scenes just didn't really have much spark. I think he and Kem had some nice intimate moments but in a different way. Oh well, guess everyone can't be Clooney, who managed to ooze chemistry and charisma with everybody around him. 

Watching the season 12 opener where Sam and Luka are looking for Alex. Luka tells a story about his son, which was nice, but then Sam asks what his name was and that seemed odd that they had been together that long and she didn't know his kids' names. I know they were trying to push the story of them not communicating well but surely he would've mentioned them by name before. He told Carol their names after just knowing her a few weeks. 

I haven't gotten to Leguizamo yet but I remember in the original run I liked him, but they didn't seem to know where to go with his character. His arc was weird. 

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, desertflower said:

 

Watching the season 12 opener where Sam and Luka are looking for Alex. Luka tells a story about his son, which was nice, but then Sam asks what his name was and that seemed odd that they had been together that long and she didn't know his kids' names. I know they were trying to push the story of them not communicating well but surely he would've mentioned them by name before. He told Carol their names after just knowing her a few weeks. 

I haven't gotten to Leguizamo yet but I remember in the original run I liked him, but they didn't seem to know where to go with his character. His arc was weird. 

Sam did complain to Luka that he never talked about his family, and I guess that never changed which is why she didn't know anything about his kids.

As was so often the case in the later years, the show got big name guest stars and then gave them stories that went nowhere and were not interesting.  I think we're supposed to care about Clemente's kinky relationship with a married woman, but I sure don't and I think most of the viewers were (are) with me.

Edited December 11, 2017 by doodlebug

[Bastet]

Aww, Coburn was very good with Abby.  And I liked the conversation with Luka in general, and especially when she said being friends for several years and going through stuff together doesn't mean they're equipped to raise a child together.

This is such a missed opportunity to go for a parenting storyline rather than the abortion storyline, but I'll obviously have to let that go and move on.  But it's sad to see Abby say, "Well, I'm at the right time of my life for this," like she's obligated to give birth just because she's not young and/or broke.  (Well, sad that women are made to feel that way, not sad that she said it.) 

I have to leave soon, so by the time I tune in again tomorrow, she'll probably be in her third trimester.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Aww, Coburn was very good with Abby.  And I liked the conversation with Luka in general, and especially when she said being friends for several years and going through stuff together doesn't mean they're equipped to raise a child together.

This is such a missed opportunity to go for a parenting storyline rather than the abortion storyline, but I'll obviously have to let that go and move on.  But it's sad to see Abby say, "Well, I'm at the right time of my life for this," like she's obligated to give birth just because she's not young and/or broke.  (Well, sad that women are made to feel that way, not sad that she said it.) 

Abby was really just stating a biologic fact.  Women have a limited window of opportunity to have kids.  If she didn't have this baby, there might never be another chance.  I don't think women are 'made to feel' that way; it is a fact of life.  MT was already 40ish at this point, I presume Abby was about the same age considering the years she spent as a nurse and then off and on in medical school and then finally as a resident.  A 40 year old woman doesn't have an unlimited opportunity to have kids. (I'm a gyn and have to remind women of this every day.  It's great to have a full life with a career, hobbies, even a spouse; but, if there's any chance a woman might want to have a child, too, her best chance is if she starts before age 35.  At age 40, only about 5% of women who've never given birth will not have some sort of fertility issue.  I've seen so many women think they've got time and the truth is, they may not.  Infertility is not the end of the world or even the end of chances to parent, but, if giving birth is a goal; take the chance when it comes along after age 35 or so.)

Edited December 11, 2017 by doodlebug

[Bastet]

Well, great, but the biological clock isn't what I was talking about.  As I said, it was the sense that because a woman is established and able to support herself and a child, that's a reason she should continue a pregnancy she doesn't think she wants.  Like it's her responsibility to opt for parenting upon becoming pregnant because she can, since she doesn't have the "excuse" of being a poor student or something to "justify" having an abortion. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Well, great, but the biological clock isn't what I was talking about.  As I said, it was the sense that because a woman is established and able to support herself and a child, that's a reason she should continue a pregnancy she doesn't think she wants.  Like it's her responsibility to opt for parenting upon becoming pregnant because she can, since she doesn't have the "excuse" of being a poor student or something to "justify" having an abortion. 

OK, I get you, but I realty didn't see that as what Abby was doing in this instance.  For that matter, she'd chosen to end a previous pregnancy despite being a nurse who was married to a doctor.  I don't think economics was her reason then, nor is it the reason she chose to continue the pregnancy this time.  I really haven't seen that many (or any) women who chose to continue a pregnancy that they didn't want simply because they could afford to do so.  I suppose it probably happens, but it seems pretty uncommon to me.  Nobody needs an excuse or justification for having an abortion, IMO, and, in this day and age, it is quite possible for a woman to make this decision discreetly and without having to explain herself to anyone.

[Bastet]

Oh, I certainly don't think she changed her mind on the abortion because she felt like she should given her place in life, because in listing the cons (in having the baby) to Luka he raised some pros that she didn't refute, it's just the tone of that conversation with Coburn very much brought that pressure to mind and suggested Abby had absorbed it as one of her many considerations.  Coburn was asking her what she wanted to do, Abby said she didn't know, then said she was at the time of her life when she could do it, and Coburn's response was to ask her if she wanted to do it, in a tone that seemed clear to me to be saying, "Forget about whether you can do it, it only matters whether you want to."  I found it a nice touch for Coburn to be the one to remind her she didn't need to have what anyone else would deem a "valid" reason to decide she did not want to continue an unplanned pregnancy, that if she wanted an abortion that was the only reason necessary to choose to have one.  And it got even more lovely when Coburn said she'd be happy to be her doctor either way, and whatever choice she makes will be the right one. 

[CarolMK]

I just finished watching the episode where James Woods guest starts as Abby's professor who now needs the trach due to advanced ALS. For most of the episode, I believe Ally Walker to be his wife instead of his assistant. She clearly loved him. I wasn't exactly clear about the ending though, was he going home to die by asking his assistant to remove his trach for him? And why was Abby ice skating in the final scene? 

The episode also somewhat reminded me of the one a few days ago with Cynthia Nixon , who couldn't talk due to a massive stroke until they surgery was done. Very scary stuff. I take a low dose aspirin every day since I turned 50 in the hopes it'll help prevent a stroke.

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, CarolMK said:

I just finished watching the episode where James Woods guest starts as Abby's professor who now needs the trach due to advanced ALS. For most of the episode, I believe Ally Walker to be his wife instead of his assistant. She clearly loved him. I wasn't exactly clear about the ending though, was he going home to die by asking his assistant to remove his trach for him? And why was Abby ice skating in the final scene? 

The episode also somewhat reminded me of the one a few days ago with Cynthia Nixon , who couldn't talk due to a massive stroke until they surgery was done. Very scary stuff. I take a low dose aspirin every day since I turned 50 in the hopes it'll help prevent a stroke.

I couldn’t watch the James Wood episode again.  Abby’s absolute arrogance and insistence that she knew what was best for this man who she hadn’t even seen in years was appalling.  She had absolutely no idea what his life was like or who he was as a person and she didn’t care.  It was all about her and what she wanted him to do.  This kind of stuff was ER at its worst and Abby was the worst offender, IMO.

It was obvious that his assistant was very close to him, that she knew him well and that she understood his wishes and Abby treated her like cr**.

I seem to recall that he was initially Ray’s patient and Abby just jumped in and took over with her BabyDaddy’s blessing.  She constantly did that sort of stuff and, alas, Luka becomes her chump; letting her walk all over him.  In real life, both of them would be disciplined and his job as ER Chief would be at risk.

The  end of the episode was a little ambiguous but, at the last second, it looked like Woods turned his wheelchair around to follow Abby back into the hospital because, of course, Abby is right and he couldn’t possibly have understood what he wanted if he disagreed with her.  He’d been living with ALS for years, Abby had been with him a couple hours; how dare he not do it her way!

In real life, she has her nasty knowitall a** tossed out in the street and no residency in the country would take her.  She’d also be arrested for criminal assault and the hospital would be facing a malpractice suit the likes of which would bankrupt it.  There was nothing noble about what she did, it was a complete and total violation of his autonomy. It was certainly in line with the way Abby treated other loved ones (her mom and brother) but it was not admirable.  One more reason to dislike Abby and one more nail in the coffin for the show’s insistence that she is just the bestest most wonderful doctor ever.

[RedbirdNelly]

Now that the Saturday run of episodes has caught up with Season 10, I am back to watching and posting things that have no relevance to the episodes most of you are now watching.

I watched Season 10, episode 1 last night--the one when Carter comes back from Africa, Neela first shows up, and Abby is a jerk to him. It's funny how you forget most of what happens but I just knew something was going to go wrong with the elderly woman Neela was treating and had to look away during the blood draw because I'm very grossed out by those.

I thought MP did a good job as Pratt. He gets on the L and his demeanor just shifts the second he realizes he's sitting next to an attractive woman.

The mom passing out in the car with the 3 kids just rattled me. What an awful accident.

[voiceover]

Not surprised to see Haleh back (after the firing), but how did it happen?  And what happened to Kirsten Johnson's character?

[Bastet]

Just now, voiceover said:

Not surprised to see Haleh back (after the firing), but how did it happen?  And what happened to Kirsten Johnson's character?

Sam - who was in charge of the nurses since Eve was on vacation - asked Haleh to come back when they were dealing with the huge number of patients following the plane crash, and she agreed.  When Eve returned, she said that was the right call.

Eve got fired when she punched and then poured urine on an unruly patient (dressed as Santa) who was verbally harassing blind kids singing carols.  Kovac wanted to fire her, she said he didn't have any authority to fire nurses, he took it to the person who did, Eve refused to participate in the disciplinary investigation/hearing, and got fired.  She told them "You all suck" on her way out.

[Bastet]

“It’s impressive how you guys can leap from misogyny to homophobia in a single bound.”

Fabulous.

A little moment between Kerry and Luka reminded me of something I meant to mention during the friendship discussion: While certainly not friends, there has been a recurring pattern of him being supportive of her at key moments.  When she was struggling with coming out, when stuff was going on with the baby, now when she's deciding about surgery -- they are never big moments between them, but she's talked to him some, and he listens, he checks in on her, etc.  It's subtle, and, like I said, not rising to the level of a friendship, but it's a nice little thing that has been going on for years.

I have precisely zero shits to give about the John Leguizamo and his married lover storyline.

[doodlebug]

44 minutes ago, Bastet said:

“It’s impressive how you guys can leap from misogyny to homophobia in a single bound.”

Fabulous.

A little moment between Kerry and Luka reminded me of something I meant to mention during the friendship discussion: While certainly not friends, there has been a recurring pattern of him being supportive of her at key moments.  When she was struggling with coming out, when stuff was going on with the baby, now when she's deciding about surgery -- they are never big moments between them, but she's talked to him some, and he listens, he checks in on her, etc.  It's subtle, and, like I said, not rising to the level of a friendship, but it's a nice little thing that has been going on for years.

I have precisely zero shits to give about the John Leguizamo and his married lover storyline.

Their relationship was that of respectful colleagues (except where she was constantly threatening to fire him when he wasn't coming in during his depression).  Luka was an excellent colleague to Kerry; nonjudgmental, supportive without interfering, discreet.  Except, of course, when he wasn't showing up for work and getting it on with med students and patient's mothers.

The Kerry storyline is so dumb, IMO.  If all she needed was to have her hip replaced in order to get rid of the crutch and the chronic pain, why didn't she do it years ago?  Why is there all this angsting over it and worrying about possibly dying in surgery (other than to have one more person proclaim Abby motherhood material)?  I've actually had a hip replacement myself, 7+years ago.  It wasn't a trip to Paris, but it wasn't bad.  I was back at work in 4 weeks and PAIN FREE!!!! ever since.  Best operation, ever!

I've also had a knee replacement, while the outcome was very good, the surgery itself and the recovery sucked.  I don't recommend it while I think everybody should get a new hip for Christmas.

[desertflower]

@RedbirdNelly I know what you mean about forgetting stuff but still having a feeling about what happens. I had completely forgotten about the deck collapse incident with Ray but as soon as he went to that party I knew the deck was going at any moment. Then today I watched the one where Luka treats a woman waking up from a coma and again, I had totally forgotten about that but I just had a feeling the whole episode that she was going to end up back in the coma. I guess our brain files away useless old stuff like that but it's still buried in there somewhere!

[Bastet]

6 minutes ago, desertflower said:

I had completely forgotten about the deck collapse incident with Ray but as soon as he went to that party I knew the deck was going at any moment.

I'd never seen it previously, but I knew if we were bothering to go to a party with him, there was going to be some sort of mass medical catastrophe there, because that's just how things go on this show, so as soon as I saw people gathered on a third-floor deck, I knew it was coming down.

[RedbirdNelly]

I'm not yet to the deck incident but I totally remember that. I'm trying to not read full discussions on here so there may be some plot points I might actually forget and find surprising. :)

[Bastet]

Neela was great at the gathering of military spouses.  And "Is it possible to kick yourself out of a club?" was funny, as was Ray getting stood up and watching Ghost; cute roommate moment when she got home, constituting the first time I've found Ray anything other than annoying.

[absnow54]

Why is there all this angsting over it and worrying about possibly dying in surgery

Especially when a patient needs it, they send them off to surgery without a second thought and get annoyed when the patient objects. I rolled my eyes when the surgeon was reading off each danger of anesthesia, as if, one, Kerry needed it, and two, that the doctor would sit there and read off every form and waiver that Kerry had to sign, instead of rattling off the highlights with the speed and precision of a flight attendant going through the safety announcements.

[desertflower]

Guest star bingo: C. Thomas Howell, aka Ponyboy as the guy who abducted the girl then used her as a shield. Rough episode.

And to fill the Obscure Soap Opera Star square, we had the guy who played Damien on ATWT as the patient from the plane crash who Pratt tries to save. He was a cutie. 

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Especially when a patient needs it, they send them off to surgery without a second thought and get annoyed when the patient objects. I rolled my eyes when the surgeon was reading off each danger of anesthesia, as if, one, Kerry needed it, and two, that the doctor would sit there and read off every form and waiver that Kerry had to sign, instead of rattling off the highlights with the speed and precision of a flight attendant going through the safety announcements.

Really stupid.  Kerry is in excellent health and is younger than most people undergoing hip replacement surgery.  For that matter, she doesn't have to have a general anesthetic for it, I didn't.  When I saw the surgeon pre-op, he asked if I had any questions or wanted to watch a video or discuss potential complications.  Nope, nada.  I did tell him that, as we both knew, the major risk for a young healthy patient is always anesthesia complications and therefore I was choosing my own anesthesiologist and not going to sleep.  Of course, I had an edge knowing which anesthesia guys did the nicest epidurals.  Once again, I signed the consent without reading it.  'Any questions?' 'Nope'. 'Good'.  I was once having a minor surgery and the anesthesiologist (a guy who'd worked with me for almost 10 years but was devoid of personality) came in and started reading the consent aloud to me.  The whole time I was trying to interrupt and let him notice it was me (my rather unusual last name was all over the paperwork, I don't know why he didn't recognize it.  I finally grabbed it out of his hand to get his attention.

Even if Kerry is more concerned about potential complications because she is a single parent; Sandy had a huge family, several of her siblings were very supportive of Kerry's custody fight and they presumably see Henry regularly.  Why oh why would she ask a coworker with whom she has virtually no relationship outside of the workplace, who doesn't even know her son, to be his designated guardian in case of tragedy? 

[Bastet]

Because Sandy's family were assholes who tried to take her son away from her?  But it seems they're no longer assholes.  I have been meaning to ask for weeks now what happened with that, and your post finally reminded me: How did Kerry get the kid back, and how did the relationship with Sandy's family evolve so that she's letting them see him regularly?

[voiceover]

GSB: Danny Pudi (Community) and Shohreh Aghdashloo: as in, the Persian Woman all of us wanted to grow up to look like, but missed by thismuch.  (Okay, more)

[doodlebug]

40 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Because Sandy's family were assholes who tried to take her son away from her?  But it seems they're no longer assholes.  I have been meaning to ask for weeks now what happened with that, and your post finally reminded me: How did Kerry get the kid back, and how did the relationship with Sandy's family evolve so that she's letting them see him regularly?

Magic?  Voodoo?  Although Sandy's parents didn't accept Kerry as Henry's parent; a couple of Sandy's siblings told Kerry that they were on her side and supportive and were working on the parents as the custody case was underway.  Then, at court for the custody battle, we are told that Sandy's parents don't really want custody after all, they just want the chance to see Henry and be a part of his life.  So, they hired a lawyer and went to court? Like Kerry had ever tried to deny them those things?  Like so many plots on the show in later seasons, it just didn't make much sense.  It was like the writers, after starting the story, got tired of it and decided to wrap it up rather than take it to a logical conclusion.

[voiceover]

So: the Ray/Neela story?  Just a case of roommates, where one had a crush and one didn't?

We're officially past the point where I'd even stopped reading the TVGuide episode descriptions on the show.

[absnow54]

1 hour ago, voiceover said:

So: the Ray/Neela story?  Just a case of roommates, where one had a crush and one didn't?

I thought it was a mutual crush that Neela nipped in the bud because she was married. 

[movingtargetgal]

12 hours ago, absnow54 said:

13 hours ago, voiceover said:

So: the Ray/Neela story?  Just a case of roommates, where one had a crush and one didn't?

I thought it was a mutual crush that Neela nipped in the bud because she was married. 

Neela is both missing her husband and angry with him for volunteering to go back into the war.  She is very vulnerable at this point.  Ray is dealing with the aftermath of his accidental underage relationship.  The two of them are residents who deal with life,  death, and other tragedies daily.  They are physically and emotionally exhausted.  It is an emotional minefield.  They are being supportive of each other.  Ray has no plans to take advantage of her and she does not intend to cheat on Michael but emotional boundaries were being crossed on both sides.  It's no one's fault, it is just the situation they are in.  Neela recognized where things were heading and did the smart thing and moved out thus saving her marriage and her friendship with Ray.  

[RedbirdNelly]

continuing my Saturday-run episode watched. I watched Season 10 episode 2 last night--the one where Carter goes back to Africa to get Luca. I can't add to what has already been posted. Most of it was not necessary to watch, enough Africa already. . . but did like Carter becoming friends with Luca. I liked the part when the embassy person asked Carter if it was a close friend--and he pauses a second before answering yes, saying they'd worked together for years. Will be glad to get back to the ER in future episodes.

[doodlebug]

58 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

continuing my Saturday-run episode watched. I watched Season 10 episode 2 last night--the one where Carter goes back to Africa to get Luca. I can't add to what has already been posted. Most of it was not necessary to watch, enough Africa already. . . but did like Carter becoming friends with Luca. I liked the part when the embassy person asked Carter if it was a close friend--and he pauses a second before answering yes, saying they'd worked together for years. Will be glad to get back to the ER in future episodes.

That was the best thing to come out of the Africa episodes, other than the end of the nightmare that was Carby.  Luka and Carter as friends/comrades made a huge difference in my enjoyment of the show and made a lot more sense than the insipid teenage competition over the Pouty Princess.

Alas, there are still a couple more Africa episodes to come.  I think it is really admirable that TPTB on the show wanted to familiarize the American audience with the genocide that was happening there; but, after the first couple episodes, they really ran out of stories to tell about it and, for those of us wanting to see the usual suspects working in a big city ER, it got old.

[RedbirdNelly]

8 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

That was the best thing to come out of the Africa episodes, other than the end of the nightmare that was Carby.  Luka and Carter as friends/comrades made a huge difference in my enjoyment of the show and made a lot more sense than the insipid teenage competition over the Pouty Princess.

Alas, there are still a couple more Africa episodes to come.  I think it is really admirable that TPTB on the show wanted to familiarize the American audience with the genocide that was happening there; but, after the first couple episodes, they really ran out of stories to tell about it and, for those of us wanting to see the usual suspects working in a big city ER, it got old.

I agree. I was glad to see the end of the Abby relationship. I think they did a nice job with the Africa scenes. It doesn't look thrown together. But I think most everyone likes the show best in the ER.

[walnutqueen]

So, none of today's episodes rang a bell; guess I stopped watching just in time.  Because this nutfuckery?  Goes beyond the pale.

[Bastet]

I missed the first one entirely and saw only a little of the other two. 

Neela and Gallant's marriage was so weird to me - it came out of nowhere, and then he left - I had a hard time getting into the emotions of his death (it didn't help that I came in after it had already been announced).

What did John Leguizamo (I can never remember his character's name -- Clemente?) do that got him fired and has Anspaugh crawling all over Kerry about liability?

I saw the shootout with Sam's ex, but nothing leading up to it; WTF was that?  I think that was worse than the tank.  I hate when long-running shows feel like they have to top themselves with the dramatic events every season, because inevitably you get unrealistic stuff like this. 

I hope they don't kill Jerry off; I can't deal with Frank any more than we already see him.