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I just finished watching Forgive Us Our Trespasses where the whole squad is subpoenaed (except Gabriel). I think Kyra's acting at the end when she spills the red wine on the subpoena and she begins crying and saying "what have I done?" is AMAZING!!!  It really gets me in the throat every time I watch it. 

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My dad and I have accidently become Brenda. We recently adopted a cat from the Humane Society, a boy cat. Except we keep accidently calling him a girl. Our last two pets in a row were girl dogs. So we've gotten so used to calling our pet her and she. I keep trying to correct myself after I do it. Every time I do I think of Brenda with Kitty or in our case Joel.  Luckily he doesn't seem to care. But I'll get it eventually.

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2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

My dad and I have accidently become Brenda. We recently adopted a cat from the Humane Society, a boy cat. Except we keep accidently calling him a girl. Our last two pets in a row were girl dogs. So we've gotten so used to calling our pet her and she. I keep trying to correct myself after I do it. Every time I do I think of Brenda with Kitty or in our case Joel.  Luckily he doesn't seem to care. But I'll get it eventually.

Assuming your male cat has been neutered, I think calling him “she” is not much different than calling him “he.” Maybe your kitty self-identifies as “they”? 😽

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For anyone watching "The Gilded Age" on HBO - the character of the Russell's French chef Monsieur Baudin is Douglas Sills, who played "Dennis Dutton" in 2 episodes - "The Butler Did It" and "Aftertaste".  He has a mustache and wears one of those chef's caps so it was hard to recognize him; it's been bothering me for a couple weeks but all of a sudden it hit me!  I always thought he was one of the best types of "The Closer" characters - charming yet evil.

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Every time I watch 5:4 with Barret Foa, knowing the background and outcome, his character,  Travis, and Barret's acting, breaks my heart. Too bad Brenda couldn't be as sympathetic while grilling him as she was at the end, even holding his hand. An apology would have been nice, too.

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9 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Every time I watch 5:4 with Barret Foa, knowing the background and outcome, his character,  Travis, and Barret's acting, breaks my heart. Too bad Brenda couldn't be as sympathetic while grilling him as she was at the end, even holding his hand. An apology would have been nice, too.

But—–of course–—any such apologies could be grounds for a law suit against her and the department. 
And, to be fair, Provenza consistently intoned: "It's always the wife/husband/lover. It's always the wife/husband/lover." IDK. Did any innocent spouses ever get an apology?
As it was, I had trouble imagining him being given the money in real life. 
But I can see how throwing the character and the viewers that bone of charitable compassion at the end that primarily served to show respect for the victim’s relationship that was not otherwise legally established would probably spawn some fan fiction versions. 

Here’s a detailed recap I found to jog my memory: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1412348/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl

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Completely blocked this out of my mind, but, yes, Rusty was a completely worthless character right from his very first appearance.

 

Big mistake anchoring so much of the follow-up series on his self-centered, selfish self.

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1 hour ago, katie9918 said:

Completely blocked this out of my mind, but, yes, Rusty was a completely worthless character right from his very first appearance.

 

Big mistake anchoring so much of the follow-up series on his self-centered, selfish self.

I agree. I hated Rusty. He was so worthless and useless. 

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48 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree. I hated Rusty. He was so worthless and useless. 

I’m finally watching his first appearance now and I’m like, this is what the finale of The Closer was wasted on?

I never bought Stroh as a supervillain either, so it would have been better for Brenda to just go ahead and move on rather than forcing a move for the after-series rather than going though the entire after-series and doing exactly what Brenda probably would and should have done in the first place.

 

But then Major Crimes would not have received all Rusty all the time while using their own final episodes to crap all over the legacy of crapping all over Brenda’s legacy.

 

So glad I didn’t invest too much in the after-show in this case.

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3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Until November then it switches to all Christmas all the time.

Seriously?!  Lifetime goes the way of Hallmark with this bullshit treating a two-day (magnanimously granting the Eve thing to a one-day) holiday only some celebrate to begin with as an excuse to air insipid dreck in place of substantive programming?

Ew.  I generally only re-watch later seasons of this series, and am regardless not awake to watch even my favored episodes on the schedule prior to November.  But that it gets erased after that in favor of rubbish is its own offense.  

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5 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Seriously?!  Lifetime goes the way of Hallmark with this bullshit treating a two-day (magnanimously granting the Eve thing to a one-day) holiday only some celebrate to begin with as an excuse to air insipid dreck in place of substantive programming?

Ew.  I generally only re-watch later seasons of this series, and am regardless not awake to watch even my favored episodes on the schedule prior to November.  But that it gets erased after that in favor of rubbish is its own offense.  

The Closer is on the Start network and late nights on TNT.

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2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Seriously?!  Lifetime goes the way of Hallmark with this bullshit treating a two-day (magnanimously granting the Eve thing to a one-day) holiday only some celebrate to begin with as an excuse to air insipid dreck in place of substantive programming?

Ew.  I generally only re-watch later seasons of this series, and am regardless not awake to watch even my favored episodes on the schedule prior to November.  But that it gets erased after that in favor of rubbish is its own offense.  

Yeah, Hallmark's bad enough but for some reason Lifetime's decided to be not much better. I wish they would at least wait until after Thanksgiving.

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3 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

The Closer is on the Start network and late nights on TNT.

I haven’t paid for access to TNT for over 10 years.

Due to physically blocked antenna signals, I’ve rarely gotten Start for the last year. 
About 6 months before that, I had mostly stopped watching The Closer because I had seen it so many times that it seemed there were no new-to-me bits that I’d missed.

But watching a few episodes this week on Lifetime, I caught some nuances and meanings of dialogue that I’d missed in the past——perhaps because I was able to do kitchen stuff and just listen for a bit after the commercials.

But also, since the only TV I have now is huge, I saw facial expressions I’d never really seen before.

And, since the TV isn’t in my bedroom, I seldom fall asleep while watching and miss stuff.

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17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Until November then it switches to all Christmas all the time.

16 hours ago, Bastet said:

Seriously?!  Lifetime goes the way of Hallmark with this bullshit treating a two-day (magnanimously granting the Eve thing to a one-day) holiday only some celebrate to begin with as an excuse to air insipid dreck in place of substantive programming?

Ew.  I generally only re-watch later seasons of this series, and am regardless not awake to watch even my favored episodes on the schedule prior to November.  But that it gets erased after that in favor of rubbish is its own offense.  


Why not compromise and do a day with all the Christmas episodes?

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5 hours ago, wknt3 said:


Why not compromise and do a day with all the Christmas episodes?

They could do that. Hallmark does it often year around. 

Lifetime lied. All next week is Christmas movies. I was checking my scheduled recordings and all the Closer, Rizzoli & Isles, and Castle recordings are now Christmas movies. At the moment it still has some Castle on Tuesday but we'll see

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Every time "Where Am I?" comes around, that ending drives me up a wall. The boy keeps crying, "Where am I?" and Brenda just stands there acting helpless instead of telling him his GPS coordinates or bothering to tell CPS that that's what he wants to know. That ending trumps the effort to wring the last ounce of pathos out of the scene. Shame. 

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7 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Every time "Where Am I?" comes around, that ending drives me up a wall. The boy keeps crying, "Where am I?" and Brenda just stands there acting helpless instead of telling him his GPS coordinates or bothering to tell CPS that that's what he wants to know. That ending trumps the effort to wring the last ounce of pathos out of the scene. Shame. 

The scene could have gone either way.
Choosing to leave the autistic child desperately asking "Where am I?" is probably more realistic for a child whose mother is on her way to prison for murdering his father. 

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3 hours ago, Anela said:

I think I saw it on HBO max, but I don't know if it's still there.

Thanks, @Anela! Yes, HBO Max does still have The Closer
But since my son-in-law got laid off, I don’t know how much longer I will have access to HBO Max——but probably it was that one-year-for-cheap deal.

I just read about not putting my Mohu antenna in the window (opposite of recommendations for past 10+ years) and am now able to get The Closer on StartTV 6-8pm daily ET, too, but that also overlaps with Jeopardy! and first-run shows always take precedence for me.😉

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I have been thinking about one of my favorite scenes, which is when her niece confronts Brenda about not letting her join her at the hospital before the boy died.  Brenda seems so confused that Charley wouldn’t think Justice was the priority, and she is so emotional asking Fritz if she did the right thing.  I remember at the time wondering if that was the moment Fritz realized for sure that they should not have children.  I don’t recall if he ever mentioned them again after the niece left.

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Heads up: HLN (which is now everything BUT headline news!) is apparently running a marathon of The Closer this weekend. Just came across it.

I guess the channel is taking a break from Forensic Files overload. (And I love the show, but really...)

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22 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Heads up: HLN (which is now everything BUT headline news!) is apparently running a marathon of The Closer this weekend. Just came across it.

Weird; they did a West Wing marathon recently, too. 

Speaking of this show, you gotta love being given a gift with the disclaimer "I know you don't want this, but ..."  I have seasons 5-7 (the Sharon Raydor years) on DVD to complete my Major Crimes collection, and don't want to take up space with seasons 1-4 for how infrequently I'd watch them.  But my friend came across a sealed copy of season four at a library sale for next to nothing, and decided I had to have it so I can watch "Dial M For Provenza" at will.  Ha -- that is indeed a good one!  Pope's bewilderment when Provenza takes off with a picture of Brenda's mother is hilarious, as is Brenda playing like this is a perfectly normal thing to do ("He's awfully fond of my mother").

I haven't opened it yet, but I checked the episode guide and that season also includes "Cherry Bomb", which I love for when Brenda checks herself, and stops trying to guilt the surviving rape victim into making a statement when the poor girl starts crying and apologizing.  "No, don't be sorry.  You've already done enough things you didn't want to do" is one of her best moments.

I also like the one where Julio's brother is killed, so I guess I'll make room for it rather than giving it back to the library to sell again.

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I just watched one of my favorites, which is when Brenda has to work with Father Jack to solve the random murder of Reggie that was the result of an attempted carjacking two blocks away.  I love it for the reaction of the car owner realizing his bullets landed somewhere as well as Father Jack’s statement that meaning isn’t something you find, but something you give.

Good episode.

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2 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I just watched one of my favorites, which is when Brenda has to work with Father Jack to solve the random murder of Reggie that was the result of an attempted carjacking two blocks away.  I love it for the reaction of the car owner realizing his bullets landed somewhere as well as Father Jack’s statement that meaning isn’t something you find, but something you give.

Good episode.

That is a favorite scene of mine too! I sometimes run it back in slow motion just to see the reaction. 

BTW, that actor played the pony express rider Noah in seasons 2 and 3 of "The Young Riders."

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2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I love it for the reaction of the car owner realizing his bullets landed somewhere

I've only seen that episode once or twice (I can't remember if I ever did a full re-watch, or just re-watched certain episodes) and not in quite some time, so I don't remember much about it -- except that moment, which is clear in my mind, because it was just so perfectly played.  Kudos to the actor.

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1 hour ago, MaryMitch said:

Just noticed - HLN (CNN's Headline News) is playing a "The Closer" marathon this weekend.

At this point it looks like it's doing it every weekend. I don't really mind I like that it still has Forensic Files from 9pm until 4am which is great for my dad when he's having trouble sleeping during the night.

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12 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I just watched one of my favorites, which is when Brenda has to work with Father Jack to solve the random murder of Reggie that was the result of an attempted carjacking two blocks away.  I love it for the reaction of the car owner realizing his bullets landed somewhere as well as Father Jack’s statement that meaning isn’t something you find, but something you give.

Good episode.

That's such a good episode. I love Julio running through the church and then coming back to grab the water and do the sign of the Cross. I like the car owner's reaction too. I feel bad for him. He fired to scare off the car jackers. It never occurred to him that the bullets hit someone. For the victim too. He was just standing outside the center when he gets hit. Poor Reggie had no idea what happened. I like Brenda's question and Father Jack's answer about finding meaning.  

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12 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That's such a good episode. I love Julio running through the church and then coming back to grab the water and do the sign of the Cross. I like the car owner's reaction too. I feel bad for him. He fired to scare off the car jackers. It never occurred to him that the bullets hit someone. For the victim too. He was just standing outside the center when he gets hit. Poor Reggie had no idea what happened. I like Brenda's question and Father Jack's answer about finding meaning.  

I remember the 2 would-be carjackers wound up being charged with murder because they admitted to the attempted carjacking that had caused the death, which triggered the rule about anytime someone dies as a result of a felony, that's murder, but was the guy who fired the gun charged with anything?

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4 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I remember the 2 would-be carjackers wound up being charged with murder because they admitted to the attempted carjacking that had caused the death, which triggered the rule about anytime someone dies as a result of a felony, that's murder, but was the guy who fired the gun charged with anything?

They never said anything. The last we saw of him was sitting in an interrogation room in an orange prison clothes but that was through the video. I wish they had. I wonder what he would be charge with. I'm not sure it would count as second degree murder. I wonder if it would be manslaughter?

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9 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

They never said anything. The last we saw of him was sitting in an interrogation room in an orange prison clothes but that was through the video. I wish they had. I wonder what he would be charge with. I'm not sure it would count as second degree murder. I wonder if it would be manslaughter?

If they determined he was defending himself with the gun, it could be an accident. But I don't think deliberately firing the gun into the air would be considered defending himself. So, yeah, probably manslaughter with maybe a minimum sentence.

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2 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

If they determined he was defending himself with the gun, it could be an accident. But I don't think deliberately firing the gun into the air would be considered defending himself. So, yeah, probably manslaughter with maybe a minimum sentence.

He did say that he fired to scare them off. But I don't think that would count toward Reggie's death. If he hadn't fired his gun his car would have been stolen but Reggie would be alive. Ironically if he had shot one of the car jackers it would be self-defense.  

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I’ve always assumed he was in the orange jumpsuit to bait the carjackers to confess.  Brenda asked him to think very carefully about his thoughts when he fired the gun, and he said he was afraid and continued to be afraid because the gang would come after him.  I think at most he was charged with unlawful discharge of a gun.

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1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

 Brenda asked him to think very carefully about his thoughts when he fired the gun, and he said he was afraid and continued to be afraid because the gang would come after him.  I think at most he was charged with unlawful discharge of a gun.

I guess they were more overt that Captain Raydor directly pushed the DA to the solution she preferred where as Brenda's superpower was to get the suspect to say what was needed to push the DA.

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I'm always surprised that Brenda buys Trey's story. It's rare for Brenda to not be suspicious of him. Especially after he threw a chair through a window. That shows the level anger and his actions then anything else. She really should have picked up on it sooner.

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11 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm always surprised that Brenda buys Trey's story. It's rare for Brenda to not be suspicious of him. Especially after he threw a chair through a window. That shows the level anger and his actions then anything else. She really should have picked up on it sooner.

Yes, but, IIRC, whenever Trey was face-to-face with Brenda he never displayed anger.
He was always asking for her to help him talk to his parents, or he was whining about the rehab place, but not really angry, instead trying to get sympathy. 
One PSA of the episode was that addicts can be con artists.

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You know, the more I think about it, the more David’s “I tried to tell you how I felt about how Baylor was handled but you didn’t listen to me” stance when Brenda chewed him out for babbling to Ann the leak/plant comes off as hypocritical. Because if memory serves, didn’t David almost lost his job for beating the living shit out of that one pedophile suspect? Also, I saw the death glare he gave Baylor before the infamous drop-off—now all of a sudden, you have scruples about leaving a child-killer to face the gang he screwed over?

Don’t get me wrong, he still didn’t deserve what and Goldman did to him, and I still hate that Goldman was able to worm his way out of any repercussions for prostituting his intern. Sleazy little hypocrite.

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8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

You know, the more I think about it, the more David’s “I tried to tell you how I felt about how Baylor was handled but you didn’t listen to me” stance when Brenda chewed him out for babbling to Ann the leak/plant comes off as hypocritical. Because if memory serves, didn’t David almost lost his job for beating the living shit out of that one pedophile suspect? Also, I saw the death glare he gave Baylor before the infamous drop-off—now all of a sudden, you have scruples about leaving a child-killer to face the gang he screwed over?

Yeah, David did beat up the pedophile Roger something in the episode Ruby. He defended his actions later in the episode and was surprised that he got written up and suspended for it. He also tried to stop Brenda from arresting his hero who murdered his brother. He did give Baylor the death stare. I really don't remember David being upset about what they were about to do. It felt like a recon that suddenly next season he was.  They really could have set up that way for the final season.  

Quote

 

Don’t get me wrong, he still didn’t deserve what and Goldman did to him, and I still hate that Goldman was able to worm his way out of any repercussions for prostituting his intern. Sleazy little hypocrite.


 

I really don't care that Baylor was murdered. While I think he deserved but Brenda set him up for it which was very, very wrong. She really didn't need to either. She did the same thing in season one with Nick who was on his way to being a serial killer. He even begged to confess and go to jail. Both were horrible young men.

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6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really don't care that Baylor was murdered. While I think he deserved but Brenda set him up for it which was very, very wrong.

I agree, but David to suddenly act like he was suddenly morally above taking the law into his own hands after he beat the shit out of Roger was annoying. 

And I’d just like to point out that if Pope and that other asshole had rushed Brenda into making the immunity deal with Baylor before she could get the confession like she was trying to do in the first place, Baylor would have been in jail and everything would have been done by the book.

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14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really don't remember David being upset about what they were about to do.

He was the one who asked "Chief, you sure we shouldn't stick around?"  (When Brenda finally quits stalling and admits to Sharon that Gabriel suggested it but she told him to go, Sharon knows there's a leak -- Goldman knows someone asked "the $20 million question" and, most importantly, how Brenda answered it.)  Brenda set up another one of her extrajudicial executions when she couldn't get it done the right way, and Julio was all in, but Gabriel knew it was wrong* -- yet went along with it. 

(*And, yes, what they did was wrong.  The cops having qualified immunity [which is disgusting] is the only thing that kept them from being criminally culpable.  The plaintiff's statement against interest - asserting the LAPD knowingly left him to be killed by his own gang yet not being able to prove a member of his gang killed him, instead having to state he was killed by "person or persons unknown" - is the only reason the state court judge had to grudgingly grant the defense's motion for summary judgment on civil liability.  There is no "But the Bad Guy was a horrifyingly bad Bad Guy" exception that makes it okay.  Cop shows acting like there is constitutes one of the many reasons why I don't watch most of them, and at least this one did have numerous characters acknowledge that while she legally got away with it, it was not right, and ultimately she left the force rather than carrying out yet another one with her white whale, Stroh.)

I have no doubt he did express remorse in talking to Ann later, and presumably his misgivings were no secret at work, either, since Andy and Julio immediately suspect him of having talked to Goldman when Gabriel is the only one not subpoenaed.  In fact, after he's revealed as the inadvertent leak, after her initial "If you had a problem, why didn't you speak up?" defensiveness, to which Gabriel responds he asked her if she was sure they should leave, she said yes, and he wasn't sure - and still isn't sure - about their action, Brenda later admits to Gabriel he's "absolutely right" that he was upset that day and she didn't listen. 

So I absolutely believe he was conflicted about that from day one.

I also agree he has no overall moral high ground given things he'd done previously (and, specifically, rationalizing it to himself the same way she did).
 

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5 minutes ago, Bastet said:

(*And, yes, what they did was wrong.  The cops having qualified immunity [which is disgusting] is the only thing that kept them from being criminally culpable.  The plaintiff's statement against interest - asserting the LAPD knowingly left him to be killed by his own gang yet not being able to prove a member of his gang killed him, instead having to state he was killed by "person or persons unknown" - is the only reason the state court judge had to grudgingly grant the defense's motion for summary judgment on civil liability.  There is no "But the Bad Guy was a horrifyingly bad Bad Guy" exception that makes it okay.  Cop shows acting like there is constitutes one of the many reasons why I don't watch most of them, and at least this one did have numerous characters acknowledge that while she legally got away with it, it was not right, and ultimately she left the force rather than carrying out yet another one with her white whale, Stroh.)

All true. But as Julio pointed out in a later episode, had Baylor lived to go kill someone else and that victim’s family found out the cops gave him an immunity deal, they could have had grounds to sue the cops for that outcome too. 

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20 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

All true. But as Julio pointed out in a later episode, had Baylor lived to go kill someone else and that victim’s family found out the cops gave him an immunity deal, they could have had grounds to sue the cops for that outcome too. 

Indeed; it was a bad deal, which Brenda fought against all along and Pope* shouldn't have acquiesced to the military in agreeing to, and the LAPD would have had to defend and potentially settle any civil suit that resulted if 1) Baylor killed again and 2) they got sued for it based on that immunity deal (which is not a slam dunk case; that would very much depend on circumstances).  (That just doesn't translate to "so let's have him killed instead".)

*Ugh, Pope.  He recruited Brenda based on her skills (okay, and a little bit on his personal feelings, but mostly that her skills could make him look REALLY good as a reformer and help him become Chief some day), and she'd indeed done, for years, what he brought her in to do.  Yet he chooses expediency and optics over listening to her when she asked for a perfectly reasonable amount of time to continue investigating.

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51 minutes ago, Bastet said:

ndeed; it was a bad deal, which Brenda fought against all along and Pope* shouldn't have acquiesced to the military in agreeing to, and the LAPD would have had to defend and potentially settle any civil suit that resulted if 1) Baylor killed again and 2) they got sued for it based on that immunity deal (which is not a slam dunk case; that would very much depend on circumstances).  (That just doesn't translate to "so let's have him killed instead".)

Didn’t mean to imply that it did. But I will never shed any tears for Baylor, and I can’t bring myself to feel that bad for his family—others in their place would have written him off for getting his brother killed, if not for murdering an elderly man and a child in cold blood.

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2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Indeed; it was a bad deal, which Brenda fought against all along and Pope* shouldn't have acquiesced to the military in agreeing to, and the LAPD would have had to defend and potentially settle any civil suit that resulted if 1) Baylor killed again and 2) they got sued for it based on that immunity deal (which is not a slam dunk case; that would very much depend on circumstances).  (That just doesn't translate to "so let's have him killed instead".)

*Ugh, Pope.  He recruited Brenda based on her skills (okay, and a little bit on his personal feelings, but mostly that her skills could make him look REALLY good as a reformer and help him become Chief some day), and she'd indeed done, for years, what he brought her in to do.  Yet he chooses expediency and optics over listening to her when she asked for a perfectly reasonable amount of time to continue investigating.

Pope had no problem using Brenda to cover up things he didn't want made public. Taylor was also horrible to her when she joined  the LAPD. They never paid any price for their behavior.

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