S05.E06: Episode 6

[kpw801]

There is no thread for episode 6 yet so....

 

It's about time Edith took that child!!  That was worth it.  It was so good to see Mrs. Drew finally find out that Edith was the mother!  Good!

 

But OMG! They are re-hashing the Mr. Bates is innocent but accused of murder and may hang because all the evidence points to him.  I cannot believe that are doing this again!

Edited October 27, 2014 by kpw801

[DianeDobbler]

Have at it, if I'm not out of turn. See I made a blunder, but I think clear enough it's Episode 6 for S5. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by DianeDobbler

[gator12]

May this be poor poor Edith last season, may she go away never to be heard from again. 

I felt bad for Mrs. Drew

Edited October 27, 2014 by gator12

[bluebonnet]

I feel like I've seen this episode a dozen times.  Something bad happens to Edith, Barrow needs help from someone he's wronged, someone lady is thinking long and hard about a marriage proposal, Mary's stuck up, Mary's men are so bland I can't tell them apart, Bates continues to be wanted for murder.  

 

The only major difference this episode was my stomach knotting up tightly when Edith took the child.  I knew it was going to happen but it was still so gut-wrenching.  That poor child.  Abruptly ripped from her third caretaker in such a short time.  Makes me feel so sick.  The only good thing about this is that there is a hint that the writers realize what a terrible idea this is as they have Edith talking about ordering ice cream and champagne.  Yeah, not great kid stuff and definitely not a day to celebrate.  I still don't understand why Edith just didn't tell Tom about Marigold.  Tom is probably the one person who would be the least judgmental.  Mrs. Drewe gave the "i'm gonna tell" eyes to Violet.  

[againstthewind]

Am I supposed to feel sorry for Edith? I know Mary is supposed to be cold and unfeeling ,but as it is I am sick and tired of droopy-drawers Edith, moping around and going to the Drewes univited. Do I think they should have been more caring regarding Gregson's now-confirmed death? Of course, but what are they going to do about it? Edith had no plans to tell anyone about Marigold. People have asked Edith what is wrong, and she shrugs them away. You can only do so much for someone. Maybe I'm a bit like Mary, I don't know, but I'm glad we finally got some plot movement on this because I was beyond sick of Edith turning up at the Drewes every episode and then moping away. She can't have her cake and eat it too - she can't have Marigold and her place in society.

 

I wanted Rose with Tom, but I rather like Atticus. He seemed to have a bit of a spark with Mary as well, but I still love Charles Blake for some reason.

 

I'm glad Isobel said yes to Lord Merton's proposal.

 

Please don't kill the dog!

[Pogojoco]

Oh seriously, men of this show, SHUT UP! 

[Eolivet]

Tony Gillingham was close to charming with Mabel Lane Fox. I'd be rooting for those crazy kids a lot more, if Charles Blake weren't smirking at every turn like we should be so impressed with his cleverness. Interesting how Gillingham completely left Mary alone in those scenes -- they didn't even speak.

 

Next week's preview looks ridiculous. "Kiss me...now!" Does that really work on the ladies, Blake? I'll roll my eyes pretty hard if it works on Mary. Have yet to see any evidence that she's that into him at all.

 

Wow, I didn't see that Bates curve ball coming. I really do think Anna will end up taking the fall for him, especially since it seems pretty telegraphed that the train operator will remember selling him that ticket to London.

[bybrandy]

Lady Edith just ripped that child away from the second family that pledged to love her forever, is that something I am supposed to applaud?  I totally understand that she has had the world of hurt happen to her in the series, and I really, truly understand her desire to be with that child no matter what, but I really, really, really would rather have watched the Lady Edith owns the publishing company story than the sad sack lady Edith pines for her baby story.   I cannot tell  you how much I would have preferred the former.   

 

And does anything happen with her inheritance now?  I can't imagine she can hang around London running the company with Marigold in tow.  In fact, I think the best thing for her to do is to hop a ship to North America as Edith and Marigold Gregson and start a new life, but that keeps me from seeing the far, far, far more interesting story of Edith runs a magazine... sigh.   

 

Lady Merton and how much that is going to bug Violet?   Love.

Cora commenting on the religion of the Aldrich family seems a bit off to me, as she had to know about Cora's father...  Cousin Rose dating a wealthy Jewish man cannot be more horrifying than her son marrying a half Jewish woman.  

 

I am sure people were scandalized the first time women cut their hair that short but given the way all the women wear their hair, to me it isn't such a visual change as having a lot of hair pinned to that very same length.   

 

Guess I'm, glad Anna now knows for certain Bates isn't a killer, but did the whole birth control thing just end?  Convenient for Mrs. Bates she doesn't have to explain any further.   

 

Did something not sad happen to Mosley?    How sad is Mosley's life that I took this as a victory for him?   

 

They better not kill Isis!   i know she's getting up there in years, but seriously....   I love Isis as much as Robert does, even if I mock him for how much he loves her!

[DianeDobbler]

I was reading there were rumors - only rumors - that Downton was going to off Isis because her name is Isis and that's an unfortunate name right now. I really hope if Isis goes - and I like the idea of a dog living forever - that's not the reason.

[kpw801]

Am I supposed to feel sorry for Edith? I know Mary is supposed to be cold and unfeeling ,but as it is I am sick and tired of droopy-drawers Edith, moping around and going to the Drewes univited. Do I think they should have been more caring regarding Gregson's now-confirmed death? Of course, but what are they going to do about it? Edith had no plans to tell anyone about Marigold. People have asked Edith what is wrong, and she shrugs them away. You can only do so much for someone. Maybe I'm a bit like Mary, I don't know, but I'm glad we finally got some plot movement on this because I was beyond sick of Edith turning up at the Drewes every episode and then moping away. She can't have her cake and eat it too - she can't have Marigold and her place in society.

 

Yes, Edith did a lot of moping this season but can you blame her?  Mary is unthinkably and uncessarily cruel to her.  That crack about "you spoil everything" was just heartless.  She said that knowing Edith just found out her lover is dead.  Did she forget how long she moped over Matthew, and he had been dead for 6 months at the beginning of series 4.  If Matthew had disappeared and then after a prolonged absence been pronounced dead, she would have been moping too.  What a cold witch!

 

I wanted Rose with Tom, but I rather like Atticus. He seemed to have a bit of a spark with Mary as well, but I still love Charles Blake for some reason.

 

I'm glad Isobel said yes to Lord Merton's proposal.

 

Please don't kill the dog!

[Snarkette]

Lady Edith is (fictionally) dead to me. That was horrendous.

[Kostgard]

Edith was right in that she needed to get the hell out of there and away from those people if she wants any chance at happiness. I just wish she hadn't done it in that fashion (poor Mrs. Drewes). She should sell the publishing business she just got and live off the profits somewhere far, far away.

Mary is the worst. I don't understand why she can't be decent to Edith. Ever. Under any circumstances. Did she not also lose her significant other under tragic circumstances? You'd think she could squeeze out at least a drop of empathy for her only living sister. But she's too busy fucking with Gillingham even though she doesn't want him and getting a haircut that would be cute if it weren't for the weird business in the back. I'd rather watch Mabel Lane Fox. She seems sassy in a non-asshole way. Why couldn't we have had her instead of Sarah Bunting?

Forget Tom. Daisy should have run away with Ms. Bunting. She's the one infatuated with her, not Tom.

So that's the end of a potentially interesting story for Thomas, I guess. Just Dr. Clarkson telling him to suck it up.

Poor Isis is probably toast. Robert wasuncharacteristically dismissive of her illness. You know that will bite him in the ass.

Oh, Carson. Trying to set it up so you're still living with Mrs. Hughes after you retire. Just as "roomies." Right. Just make out, already.

[Brn2bwild]

DianeDobbler, the Up Yours, Downstairs! pod couple has mentioned they've had idiots twittering at them, "WHY IS THE DOG NAMED FOR TERRORISTS???" It's embarrassing that people don't know the history of the name (to say nothing of its connection to Highclere). And you're right, getting rid of her because of that is just wrong. Ugh.

 

Besides, I'd just hate to have to retire my favorite Isis .gif.

 

 

I would guess (hope) that they're just going for realism.  I can't imagine Fellowes would be that sensitive to some paranoid idiots' comments.

[ZoloftBlob]

In fairness, my own unnamed credit card company recently renamed a not that big of a program from Isis to something else

[Cherpumple]

That's funny, Snarkette, because I came here to post that Mary is now officially dead to me. I think my jaw literally dropped when I heard her, in both private and in front of Edith, say such nasty things about how everyone knew that Gregson died ages ago, and Edith should just get over it, and that she ruins everything. Good god, that women is horrible. Had I been in that room, I would not have been able to restrain myself from giving her at least one hard slap in the face. And that added to the fact that we didn't get to see Edith hearing the news about Gregson, or receive any comfort from her father, and instead got to see Mary talking about her hair appointment, having her hair appointment, and then hearing the reactions to her hair appointment, and having her father call her a "courageous woman" for the result of said hair appointment; it made me want to scream. Seriously, I was getting whiplash from the tone changes from scene to scene. If I knew nothing about the show runners I would swear that Mary was the hated villainess of the series, since we see her torment Edith, who is in genuine emotional agony, and then go off for a make-over and intentionally playing mind games with a man she just spurned. What the hell, Mary?

 

Speaking of hair, I agree that Mary's new look is almost visually identical to her old one, which made me roll my eyes even harder at that nonsense.

 

I'll be fine with the resolution of Edith's storyline if it stays as is from now on; that is, she retains full custody of Marigold and runs the publishing company. The separation scene with Mrs. Drewe was awful to watch, but I don't think that arrangement would've been tenable in the long run (due to Edith's inability to keep her distance), and I think Edith will be a loving mother to her. Now that she's actually taken Marigold and left Downton, I don't think Rosamund and Violet will be able to change her mind, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. I wouldn't put it past Fellowes to upend the story yet again just to cause Edith more devastation.

 

The Bates story continues to bore, despite the small plot advancement (he's innocent!). But I agree with previous posters that it's beyond ridiculous how much police time and energy has gone into the investigation of a seemingly open and shut case of an accident on a busy street. It's absurd. Stop trying to make this plot happen. It's not going to happen! And I'm dreading a rehash of the diaphragm story, since that was never resolved. Ugh. I REALLY don't want to think about the Bates' sex life. Also, it amuses me that their normal marital conversations often include things like, "I'm so happy that you didn't murder him!"

 

I'm a little embarrassed to say that I actually choked up at the scene between Prince Kuragin and Violet. It just punched me right in the heart for some reason, and thought both characters (and actors) did a great job.

 

I was slightly shipping Rose and Tom, but now I really like her and Atticus together. I hope that works out in a fairly drama-free way, but I doubt it will.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Cherpumple

[Kostgard]

When he was MANPAINING about how Anna must not want a little Bates in their future because of Mrs. Stopes' Our Body, Ourselves (or whatever it's called), I was quite literally making the old Joan Rivers finger-gag gesture. No one cares.

 

Besides which, the entire "I kept the ticket to prove I was innocent just in case it ever came up again" was pure creative hogwash.

 

 

Serious. Bates is the worst (along with Mary). He made Anna's rape all about him, and then he goes off the deep end when he finds the birth control stuff (and that did sort of just disappear. Is he still pissy about that, or did he just suddenly forget?).

 

I honestly can't stand Bates any more. Everything - absolutely everything - is about  him and never about Anna. Anna deserves better. I would hope that he goes to prison again, but the last time they sent him to the pokey we were subjected to the most boring scenes ever filmed and poor Anna would be bogged down because she'd be beating herself up and blaming herself for giving away the coat that she could not have possibly known contained her husband's alibi.

[minamurray78]

Throughout Edith's whole ordeal (Gregson's dissapearance, the pregnancy, etc), I've never felt as sorry for her as I felt for Ms. Drewes today. Really, it was heart wrenching, when she finally gave in and said her goodbyes to Marigold. I wonder if it was the writers' choice, or rather their mistake, or the actress' portrayal, I don't know...

This whole story is backwards. Sure, Edith feels her whole family doesn't care for her and her pain, but most of them don't know half of it. I think it was appalling from Violet and Rosamund to conspire and keep the whole thing away from Edith's parents. Cora and Robert are absent-minded parents, sure, they've played favorites with their daughters, sure, but I wouldn't think them horrible, or cruel parents that would make Edith fear their reactions so badly she would have to hide this. And she's a grown woman, almost 30 I think. They still could have planned to send her away with Rosamund, etc, but they should have told them. And anyway it's all going to come out sooner rather than later, she's only gone as far as London. I fear it will get worse before it gets better.

Also, Gregson had a wife who was institutionalized (that I don't think Edith told to anyone in her family). What happens to that woman now? Was there any other family, or relatives of her, who would care about Gregson's affairs now that he's dead? Was he free to leave Edith just his publishing company?

Ugh, this storyline is such a mess, soap-opera style, and it could have been so interesting.

 

And just when I'm starting to relax without Sarah Bunting's charming presence, here's Daisy to reminds us all. I agree with a poster upthread, seems Daisy was the one infatuated with her, rather than Tom!

[ZulaMay]

That's funny, Snarkette, because I came here to post that Mary is now officially dead to me. I think my jaw literally dropped when I heard her, in both private and in front of Edith, say such nasty things about how everyone knew that Gregson died ages ago, and Edith should just get over it, and that she ruins everything. Good god, that women is horrible. Had I been in that room, I would not have been able to restrain myself from giving her at least one hard slap in the face. And that added to the fact that we didn't get to see Edith hearing the news about Gregson, or receive any comfort from her father, and instead got to see Mary talking about her hair appointment, having her hair appointment, and then hearing the reactions to her hair appointment, and having her father call her a "courageous woman" for the result of said hair appointment; it made me want to scream. Seriously, I was getting whiplash from the tone changes from scene to scene. If I knew nothing about the show runners I would swear that Mary was the hated villainess of the series, since we see her torment Edith, who is in genuine emotional agony, and then go off for a make-over and intentionally playing mind games with a man she just spurned. What the hell, Mary?

 

Speaking of hair, I agree that Mary's new look is almost visually identical to her old one, which made me roll my eyes even harder at that nonsense.

 

I'll be fine with the resolution of Edith's storyline if it stays as is from now on; that is, she retains full custody of Marigold and runs the publishing company. The separation scene with Mrs. Drewe was awful to watch, but I don't think that arrangement would've been tenable in the long run (due to Edith's inability to keep her distance), and I think Edith will be a loving mother to her. Now that she's actually taken Marigold and left Downton, I don't think Rosamund and Violet will be able to change her mind, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. I wouldn't put it past Fellowes to upend the story yet again just to cause Edith more devastation.

 

The Bates story continues to bore, despite the small plot advancement (he's innocent!). But I agree with previous posters that it's beyond ridiculous how much police time and energy has gone into the investigation of a seemingly open and shut case of an accident on a busy street. It's absurd. Stop trying to make this plot happen. It's not going to happen! And I'm dreading a rehash of the diaphragm story, since that was never resolved. Ugh. I REALLY don't want to think about the Bates' sex life. Also, it amuses me that their normal marital conversations often include things like, "I'm so happy that you didn't murder him!"

 

I'm a little embarrassed to say that I actually choked up at the scene between Prince Kuragin and Violet. It just punched me right in the heart for some reason, and thought both characters (and actors) did a great job.

 

I was slightly shipping Rose and Tom, but now I really like her and Atticus together. I hope that works out in a fairly drama-free way, but I doubt it will.

Yes, seriously, I generally can't stand Mary but even I was shocked by her behavior tonight.  She just went from bad to worse.

 

To get it out of the way, I know the Edith situation was bad and I did feel for Mrs. Drewe.  None of them meant it to get to that stage but it just did, because of a series of missteps.  He should have told her Edith was the mother (to keep it a secret was HIS idea).  Once she started getting annoyed and suspicious they should have just come up with a visitation schedule, like with divorced parents.

 

But when Margie started getting unreasonable and paranoid and wouldn't even let her SEE the kid?  WTF was she supposed to do?  Just allow them to keep the kid away from her forever?  No, that was not the deal.  They have no right to do that.  If Margie would not have been so paranoid it all could have been avoided.  No one was totally in the right and I do feel badly for Mrs. Drewe but Edith was not in the wrong.  That  is HER child and she never agreed to give her up for adoption to them.  It was a foster situation.  

 

I am am Edith's side here.  Marigold is clearly totally fine.  She will never remember the Schroeders, who only had her for a month or so.  Edith nursed her for longer than that.  And she knows Edith already.  There will be an adjustment period but the kid is under two and with a loving parent.  She'll be fine.  

 

Anyway...Mary.  Jesus, she is a sociopath.  She finds out her sister's lover has been confirmed dead.  No, it's not really unexpected and it's been a couple of years, but still.  Everyone else is sensitive about how hard it will be on her....except Mary and THOMAS.  She mocks Edith for holding out hope for him, then says she doesn't even know why he loved her (Well, I don't know why anyone loves HER!), then staged a fashion show for herself because she was feeling "frumpy" and had to upstage a woman who is a rival for a man she doesn't even WANT.

 

Then she tells Edith that she is spoiling her moment of glory and raining on her parade because God forbid Edith have actual problems that detract from Mary's fun and moment in the sun.  Of which she has plenty anyway.

 

What a sadistic, narcissistic cow.  I cannot muster much criticism for Edith in an episode where her sister behaved like this toward her.  Is it any wonder she wants to raise her only child herself?  She wants to give her the love she never got.

 

And I was so glad she told Tom she could not be happy if she stayed there (true that) and to not let them "flatten" him.  As they have done to her.  Now she has a newspaper and her kid and is away from her family.  

 

Mrs. Drewe is a secondary issue to me.  She has three kids and a husband.  And she was being incredibly difficult about the whole thing and put Edith (and herself) in this position to some degree.  Marigold is totally fine.  I am sure of that.

[bluebonnet]

 

 

I am am Edith's side here.  Marigold is clearly totally fine.  She will never remember the Schroeders, who only had her for a month or so.  Edith nursed her for longer than that.  And she knows Edith already.  There will be an adjustment period but the kid is under two and with a loving parent.  She'll be fine.  .....

 

....Marigold is totally fine.  I am sure of that.

 

It's not about memory, but about development.  Marigold has learned that she cannot expect her needs to be met in a safe and stable environment. She has learned that forming attachments is futile.  I cannot say this enough; attachment is incredibly important in early childhood, especially infancy and toddlerhood.  A child may not remember these years but they are some of the most formative stages of their development.  Marigold has been abruptly removed from three homes now.  It's a huge fucking issue and in real life, she wouldn't be "totally fine".  

 

That being said, this is a soap opera with the world's dumbest writers so I doubt they even have any knowledge of basic child development.  Marigold's life will suck not because Edith's actions have created an attachment disorder, but simply because the writers determined that everything bad always happens to Edith.  Marigold is a casualty simply due to her proximity to Edith.  

[Brn2bwild]

I really hope they're setting Mary up to come through for Edith before the end of the season, or else I don't think I could watch her anymore (and since she's 70% of the show, I don't think I could watch the show).  If so, hopefully it would come without someone (Tom, Rosemund, Violet, etc.) having to drum some sense into her.

[Llywela]

I knew that Edith's snatch of little Marigold was coming, but thought it was awful and my heart broke for Mrs Drew, who did nothing to deserve being used and having her heart broken like that. I felt terrible for everyone - poor Edith was so broken - but I felt for Mrs Drew most of all. Also, was that the same child playing Marigold? She looked very different - straight hair turned curly, for a start.

 

Mary was showing off the very worst of her personality here - she was awful, especially to Edith, no empathy at all and not even a pretence at sympathy.

 

I honestly cannot tell Gillingham and Blake apart, especially when they are both in the same scene.

 

I'd love to think that Thomas will learn from this experience and grow, but this show will never allow that. I love Baxter, though. She's lovely.

 

I have come to really dislike Bates. Poor Anna deserves better. At least he backed off his entitled accusations about the birth control when the conversation turned to murder. And I do rather enjoy the way everyone dances around the subject of birth control - can't say the actual words out loud!

 

Sybbie spoke!

 

I really want Isobel to marry Lord Merton and be happy, but I fear the show will not allow it. It would change the status quo, and that would never do.

 

I actually laughed when Kuryagin suggested that Violet run away with him. What, leave the comfort and elegance of the Dower House for a filthy one-room studio? She'd never do that. She could take him home with her, but not while his wife is still alive (or at least not definitively known to be dead) - and I suspect not even then. She's too conservative.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the best moments of this episode was just before Edith walked out of the room and she apologized to Atticus but said it was better that he know what the family is like. HA! Run while you can, Atticus!

 

I know Mary is a self centered bitch, but DUDE, how does she not know to keep some of those thoughts to herself? It's one thing for her to think that everyone else has assumed Gregson was dead but it's another thing to blurt all of that stuff out in front of the rest of her family and Rose's guest after telling Edith that she's a Debbie Downer. This is coming from the same person who was moping around after Matthew died, so it's not like she can't understand what it's like to grieve the loss of someone you love. She just doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone's feelings besides her own.

 

On a shallow note, I loved the red dress she wore to dinner when she debuted her new haircut. The back of the dress was especially beautiful.

 

I found it somewhat hilarious that she cut her hair knowing that Robert would freak out but then a few days later she told Mabel she had to ride sidesaddle because Violet would freak out if she rode astride.

 

What is up with Violet's new maid? She sounds as uppity as Carson. I loved that Violet told her that of course they cater to her butler. Ha!

 

I'm glad that Isobel accepted Lord Merton's proposal because he seems very sincere in his feelings (and partly because I knew it would annoy VIolet for Isobel to become a Lady), but a tiny part of me is sad that I won't get to see Violet and Isobel's version of the Golden Girls.

 

I loooooove that Sybbie is still referring to Robert as Donk.

 

Do not kill Isis! She is the best character on this show, damn it.

Edited October 27, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Llywela]

What is up with Violet's new maid? She sounds as uppity as Carson. I loved that Violet told her that of course they cater to her butler. Ha!

 

Do not kill Isis! She is the best character on this show, damn it.

Oh, I'd forgotten the new maid. No idea what her story is, I was just cheering to see Sue Johnston. Violet's household is increasingly hilarious to me.

 

Sad to say, in show terms Isis is a very old lady so it would be entirely believable if she died of old age.

[olivia1]

If you think your husband routinely might be killing people to the point where there has to be clarification as to which dead person you are talking about... maybe he's not the best person to build a future with, Anna.

 

This. Bates was pissed that she thought he was a murderer and then he admits he bought a ticket to go kill the guy and decided not to because his hanging would be rough on Anna. Not because it would be murder mind you. Isn't it a non-murder anyway? The street was crowded. Even if Bates had been there and Green freaked and ran in front of the bus it still wouldn't be a  murder. What a stupid story line this one is. 

 

Ok, so now Edith has little Marigold to call Darling and buy her ice cream. Now what.? It's not like she knows the first thing about being a parent. Ugh on this story, too. 

 

Molesly isn't going to hit on Daisy is he? He seems to have lost interest in Baxter.

[joelene]

Was Lady Mary especially horrid this episode or did it just hit me how awful she really is? Although, if she killed the rapist she'll be redeemed in my eyes.

Edited October 27, 2014 by joelene

[kpw801]

One of the best moments of this episode was just before Edith walked out of the room and she apologized to Atticus but said it was better that he know what the family is like. HA! Run while you can, Atticus!

 

I know Mary is a self centered bitch, but DUDE, how does she not know to keep some of those thoughts to herself? It's one thing for her to think that everyone else has assumed Gregson was dead but it's another thing to blurt all of that stuff out in front of the rest of her family and Rose's guest after telling Edith that she's a Debbie Downer. This is coming from the same person who was moping around after Matthew died, so it's not like she can't understand what it's like to grieve the loss of someone you love. She just doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone's feelings besides her own.

 

Indeed.  She doesn't care about anyone but herself.  They are writing Mary terribly this series.  This cannot be the same woman who gave Anna and Bates the opportunity to sleep together on their wedding night or made sure William got to see his dying mother.  A person who does those things is a person with EMPATHY.  She has always been unnecessarily cruel to Edith and the only one who called her on it was Matthew.  I can't believe Violet (knowing what Edith is going through), did no sharply rebuke Mary after she said "You ruin everythig" to Edith.  I was taught "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."  Even though none of the rest of the family knows about little Marigold, Mary was totally out of line to treat Edith that way.  I would never allow one of my children to disrespect the other one like that no matter how old.  What is the matter with Robert and Cora?

 

She has always been rather self involved though.  Remember the pilot program when they learned Patrick died and she was whining about not having to go into full mourning.  She also later said (I believe another poster referenced this too) that she was only going to marry Patrick if nobody better came along.  Now when Sybil wanted to marry Branson she showed some vestige of class and empathy, maybe down the line she will behave better toward Edith.  But until then, Edith is right to run like a bat out of hell to get away from viscious Mary and her thoughtless enablers in her torturous treatment of Edith.

 

 

On a shallow note, I loved the red dress she wore to dinner when she debuted her new haircut. The back of the dress was especially beautiful.

 

I found it somewhat hilarious that she cut her hair knowing that Robert would freak out but then a few days later she told Mabel she had to ride sidesaddle because Violet would freak out if she rode astride.

 

What is up with Violet's new maid? She sounds as uppity as Carson. I loved that Violet told that of course they cater to her butler. Ha!

 

I'm glad that Isobel accepted Lord Merton's proposal because he seems very sincere in his feelings (and partly because I knew it would annoy VIolet for Isobel to become a Lady), but a tiny part of me is sad that I won't get to see Violet and Isobel's version of the Golden Girls.

 

I loooooove that Sybbie is still referring to Robert as Donk.

 

Do not kill Isis! She is the best character on this show, damn it.

Was Lady Mary especially horrid this episode or did it just hit me how awful she really is? Although, if she killed the rapist she'll be redeemed in my eyes.

Yes.  Yes.  A thousand times yes!  Mary was beyond horrible in this episode.  Actually I hope she ends up pregnant for Tony!  That would be poetic justice!

One wonders if maybe deep down Mrs. Drew knew that Edith had a biological connection to the child.  Her behavior was getting more and more paranoid as if she had a premonition.

[ZulaMay]

Was Lady Mary especially horrid this episode or did it just hit me how awful she really is? Although, if she killed the rapist she'll be redeemed in my eyes.

I've always found her awful but yet, she was especially horrid this episode.  She outdid herself and I was kind of shocked.  She's not usually that bad, honestly.  Even I can say that and I can't stand her for the most part.  That was psycho-bitch behavior.  Like, really sociopathic.

[kpw801]

Thanks DianeDobbler!

 

Lots of things happened - finally - but two big misses happened with regards to Edith.

 

1) Robert surprisingly speaking up that he and Edith should take the meeting regarding Gregson alone. I really, really thought we were going to get an overdue moment between them where he showed he cared for her and she could expose some of her grief. But no, JF writes all around the scene - we know someone is coming with bad news, we know the man with bad news has arrived, we know the bad news has been delivered but the moment itself, yet again, is completely cut from the narrative. Can Fellowes just not deal with scenes that would allow the viewer some emotional release? This was a HUGE missed opportunity. We find out what happened during the meeting when Robert tells Cora, not when Edith and Robert are hearing it firsthand? Shaking my head.

 

2) Edith and Tom. She says she can talk to no one in the house but him. "So talk to me!" "No, I can't."

 

I nearly knocked over my laptop in frustration.

 

Isis - DO NOT KILL OFF. Bates - go away, you should be killed off instead. Mary - yes, you do look frumpy and your haircut makes you look like a Lego lady.

 

OMG that is too funny!  She does look like a LEGO lady with that hairdo!!!

 

Another great outing for Raquel Cassidy and Robert James-Collier. Let this be the end of "Evil Barrow" and see some new narratives emerge with those characters after this moment.

[NotBothered]

I'm not on the anti-Mary bandwagon, mainly because I find the snark entertaining 90% of the time, and everyone else's plot lines are such downers anymore.  At least Mary does different things from episode to episode.  However, even I thought she was out of line in this episode.  This was like season 1 Mary all over again.  I do appreciate that she did at least say that she felt sorry for Edith, but it was unusually insensitive.  I hope that this is a setup for Mary to stick up for Edith re: the baby, even if I don't really believe it.  I at least hope that Mary doesn't blow her top about "ruining the family" when she finds out.  

 

And I don't know if Laura Carmichael lacks range, or if its just that Fellowes is giving her nothing to work with, but I think Edith has just become so monotonous. She makes the same face every episode, her line delivery is exactly the same.  It's hard to maintain sympathy for her situation when she does the same thing every episode.  I know she's in a difficult and emotional position, but it would be great if she could think something through and act logically.  It doesn't help that Mrs. Drew is a shrill character and Mr. Drew just sits and looks aggrieved all the time. 

 

Ugh.  Ann and Bates.  Ugh.  I hate bates at the same level everyone here seems to hate Mary.  I didn't like him in Season 1, and I really dislike him now.  I was getting ready for him to do something terrible to Anna in that scene.  He's completely selfish and certainly comes off like someone capable of perpetrating at least two separate homicides. 

 

I'm ready for this season to end. And I am actually enjoying Mary and Blake making faces at one another.  I can't imagine the slog if you dislike that plot line too.  At least we Rose and Atticus.  

[ZoloftBlob]

This is coming from the same person who was moping around after Matthew died, so it's not like she can't understand what it's like to grieve the loss of someone you love. She just doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone's feelings besides her own.

 

Yeah, as I recall, Mary spent months openly mourning, with the entire family dancing attendance on her. If Edith had pulled this shit on Mary, everyone would have killed Edith.

 

I am not 100% convinced about Gregson being dead. Guess there's a closet grassy knoll Jesse Ventura conspiracy theorist inside me somewhere hahahaha

 

Let me help you. In the Highlands episode, Gregson and Matthew, after fishing and discussing their lady woes, realized their passion for each other. They knew they could never live openly in England as gay lovers, so they decided to stage their own deaths! Matthew escaped to the Caribbean after staging the car crash and Gregson "went to Germany" and actually joined him on Antigua, where they run a gay fishing/smuggling/treasure seeking/pirate venture. At some point they will return, to shock the family and steal their children from their awful mothers. :)

 

Hows that for conspiracy? :)

[Andorra]

I'm usually very able to forgive Mary her flaws, but I thought she was really awful this episode. And I blame Blake. I think he's highlighting her bad side, by being such an ass himself. I'm sorry, I just can't stand the man. I don't find him entertaining or funny, I just find him annoying and even more narcistic than Mary. With Mary we had one self loving, arrogant and snotty character on the show already and sometimes even saw her good sides, but with Blake we have yet another one - the male Mary so to speak - and it is JUST awful.  I can only bear Mary in her scenes with Tom right now. With all characters - even with Anna - she is impossible.

 

And now we are supposed to find this whole "we behave like highschool teens" romantic? And his demand next week "kiss me now!" is supposed to be romantic, too? I feel like in the middle of an episode of gossip girl.

 

My sympathies in the Edith storyline are with all people involved. IMO there are no winners and no bad guys. Mr. Drewe should have told Margie. Margie should have been more reasonable in her dealings with Edith. Edith should have come clear about Marigold in the first place. She's doing it now after all.

 

We had not enough Tom in this episode. The scene between him and Edith was lovely, but frustrating. She could have told him? Why didn't she?

 

Atticus and Rose is such a sad waste! I hate it that Julian Fellows is just interested to get rid of her somehow and throws in a 3 episode romance to marry her off. I like Rose and she should have had a better storyline. Why didn't he bring in Atticus sooner? Then it wouldn't feel so rushed and out of the blue.

 

Thomas is heartbreaking but not enough screentime. I like the storyline though and I really like Baxter! I wonder if she will somehow be connected to the Green murder in the end.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Andorra

[shipperx]

It's not about memory, but about development. Marigold has learned that she cannot expect her needs to be met in a safe and stable environment. She has learned that forming attachments is futile. I cannot say this enough; attachment is incredibly important in early childhood, especially infancy and toddlerhood. A child may not remember these years but they are some of the most formative stages of their development. Marigold has been abruptly removed from three homes now. It's a huge fucking issue and in real life, she wouldn't be "totally fine".

I think in this situation that's a bit of a stretch. Marigold would have her issues-- all things considered-- but I don't think that she's lacked a safe environment (in fact all evidence has been that in all of her environments she's been safe, non-violent, and nurturing), nor has she ever lacked affection, nor is she failing to bond.

 

And, in fact, Edith has been a near constant in Marigold's life. Maybe not 24/7, but Edith was the one who gave birth to her. Edith nursed Marigold for months of Marigold's life (and assuming the feeding schedule of newborn infants, would've lived with Marigold during that time)  Marigold was with the Swiss couple only briefly before Edith returned to Switzerland, and then Edith travelled with Marigold from Switzerland to Englad in pre-commercial air travel time -- so we're again talking about Edith as her primary if not only caretaker for a time just as she had been during the breast feeding stage. Then the complaints of the Drewes' was that Edith was there too much! (We see her with Marigold more often than we see Mary around her nanny-attended child)

 

In childhood early developmental terms, Marigold would have been bonded to Edith during the early months. They aren't 'un-bonded'. Edith was nursing Marigold. Mrs Drewe is no doubt also bonded to the child. I am in no way discounting that. Marigold would be in a safe, loving situation with the Drewe's.  She was a loved child there.. But Marigold will still be in a safe, loving situation,  and will also be a loved child.  And, in fact, it is Edith who has been around Marigold the longest (from Marigold's conception and first breath) and -- considering the breastfeeding--most intimately. Marigold is bonded to Edith also.

 

This isn't all one and none of the other.

 

Its a disruption to be removed from the Drewes'. Of course it is! It's tragic and sad looking at it from their context.  But Marigold is also bonded to the mother who nursed her, was the voice she heard in utero, was the first face she saw when she could focus, and who has been a presence the longest in the child's brief life. The child has retained one bond throughout all these disruptions -- that is Edith.

 

So, while far from optimal -- too many disruptions, too many abrupt changes -- and problem causing in its own right, of Marigold's potential problems bonding probably isn't one that looms largest. She's bonded to both the Drewes and to Edith. And, for all the disruptions, Marigold has always had her needs met, received attention, and been given affection. Marigold hasn't had the most fair of lives but neither has she suffered horrid privation. With love and attention she should have plenty of building blocks to adjust. And I cannot see her as bondless with the woman who carried her, nursed her, travelled with her, and was around so very much that she annoyed the foster parents that Edith paid to look after her. The Drewes would've been fine parents, but Edit is not such a terrible option that she should be denied her child, in part due to all of the pressure brought to bear demanding that she give her up.

 

And I rather hate this storyline because everyone suffers.  Can't there be any happiness?

 

And, honestly, I remain mystified how Mrs Drewe didn't connect things considering Edith's financial support. Where did Mr Drewe explain the money as coming from?  There weren't child welfare agencies paying for the fostering of children. Yet Edith was paying the couple to foster the child. The whole thing is written in the most contrived way possible to create problems when if anyone had stopped to think for 5 minutes, so much more would be obvious (and more equitable arrangents -- or at least honest ones -- could have been made.

 

(And either of Edith's parents could've figured out many of these things -- the pregnancy, the depression, the attachment to the 'farmer's' child -- had either of them spent any time looking at Edith, what's going on with her, or trying to understand her. Or -- hell -- simply asking her. All it took for Rosamund to discover what was going on was paying attention and then asking. )

 

I would also assume that Michael's asylum-bound wife was taken care of. It's not like the wife could do anything with the paper. It's possible to leave things to more than one person. Charles Dickens left money to his mistress, his wife, and his sister-in-law (actually he left the most money to his sister-in-law...) I assume that there must be some stipend/trust for a wife in need of perpetual care.

 

I hope Isobel marries Merton. I hope nothing awful happens to ISIS, here's to immortal life of television doggies.  I want more Tom on the show with more to do. And someone needs to go Darth Willow on Mary, because UGH!!! 

Edited October 27, 2014 by shipperx

[Llywela]

I remain mystified how Mrs Drewe didn't connect things considering Edith's financial support. Where Mr Drewe explain it as coming from? There weren't child welfare agencies paying for the fostering of children. The whole thing is written in te most contrived way possible to create problems when if anyone had stopped to think for 5 minutes so much more would be obvious.

Mr Drew probably told her that the parents had a bit of money put by that comes with the child, and that's as much as she knows about the finances - if he didn't tell her there was a regular amount coming in, in addition to what he was earning, she wouldn't know, because the husband controlled the purse. It is entirely plausible that she could be kept unaware of a regular maintenance payment - if such was being paid, it has never been mentioned again.

[ZulaMay]

I think in this situation that's a bit of a stretch. Marigold would have her issues-- all things considered-- but I don't think that she's lacked a safe environment (in fact all evidence has been that in all of her environments she's been safe, non-violent, and nurturing), nor has she ever lacked affection, nor is she failing to bond.

 

And, in fact, Edith has been a near constant in Marigold's life. Maybe not 24/7, but Edith was the one who gave birth to her. Edith nursed Marigold for months of Marigold's life (and assuming the feeding schedule of newborn infants, would've lived with Marigold during that time)  Marigold was with the Swiss couple only briefly before Edith returned to Switzerland, and then Edith travelled with Marigold from Switzerland to Englad in pre-commercial air travel time -- so we're again talking about Edith as her primary if not only caretaker for a time just as she had been during the breast feeding stage. Then the complaints of the Drewes' was that Edith was there too much! (We see her with Marigold more often than we see Mary around her nanny-attended child)

 

In childhood early developmental terms, Marigold would have been bonded to Edith during the early months. They aren't 'un-bonded'. Edith was nursing Marigold. Mrs Drewe is no doubt also bonded to the child. I am in no way discounting that. Marigold would be in a safe, loving situation with the Drewe's.  She was a loved child there.. But Marigold will still be in a safe, loving situation,  and will also be a loved child.  And, in fact, it is Edith who has been around Marigold the longest (from Marigold's conception and first breath) and -- considering the breastfeeding--most intimately. Marigold is bonded to Edith also.

 

This isn't all one and none of the other.

 

Its a disruption to be removed from the Drewes'. Of course it is! It's tragic and sad looking at it from their context.  But Marigold is also bonded to the mother who nursed her, was the voice she heard in utero, was the first face she saw when she could focus, and who has been a presence the longest in the child's brief life. The child has retained one bond throughout all these disruptions -- that is Edith.

 

So, while far from optimal -- too many disruptions, too many abrupt changes -- and problem causing in its own right, of Marigold's potential problems bonding probably isn't one that looms largest. She's bonded to both the Drewes and to Edith. And, for all the disruptions, Marigold has always had her needs met, received attention, and been given affection. Marigold hasn't had the most fair of lives but neither has she suffered horrid privation. With love and attention she should have plenty of building blocks to adjust. And I cannot see her as bondless with the woman who carried her, nursed her, travelled with her, and was around so very much that she annoyed the foster parents that Edith paid to look after her. The Drewes would've been fine parents, but Edit is not such a terrible option that she should be denied her child, in part due to all of the pressure brought to bear demanding that she give her up.

 

And I rather hate this storyline because everyone suffers.  Can't there be any happiness?\

 

(And either of Edith's parents could've figured out many of these things -- the pregnancy, the depression, the attachment to the 'farmer's' child -- had either of them spent any time looking at Edith, what's going on with her, or trying to understand her. Or -- hell -- simply asking her. All it took for Rosamund to discover what was going on was paying attention and then asking. )

 

Yes, people seem to forget that Edith nursed Marigold for at least a month, probably more like two, before leaving her in Switzerland.  And that is an extremely bonding experience.  As you said, she has been more or less a constant presence in her life.  So she's not being handed over to a stranger or anything.  Of course I feel badly for Mrs.  Drewe.  It was heartbreaking but it would be just as heartbreaking to see Edith lose her only child forever.

[NorthstarATL]

I think in this situation that's a bit of a stretch. Marigold would have her issues-- all things considered-- but I don't think that she's lacked a safe environment (in fact all evidence has been that in all of her environments she's been safe, non-violent, and nurturing), nor has she ever lacked affection, nor is she failing to bond.

 

And, in fact, Edith has been a near constant in Marigold's life. Maybe not 24/7, but Edith was the one who gave birth to her. Edith nursed Marigold for months of Marigold's life (and assuming the feeding schedule of newborn infants, would've lived with Marigold during that time)

Marigold was with the Swiss couple only briefly before Edith returned to Switzerland, and then Edith travelled with Marigold from Switzerland to Englad in pre-commercial air travel time -- so we're again talking about Edith as her primary if not only caretaker for a time just as she had been during the breast feeding stage. Then the complaints of the Drewes' was that Edith was there too much! (We see her with Marigold more often than we see Mary around her nanny-attended child)

 

In childhood early developmental terms, Marigold would have been bonded to Edith during the early months. They aren't 'un-bonded'. Edith was nursing Marigold. Mrs Drewe is no doubt also bonded to the child. I am in no way discounting that. Marigold would be in a safe, loving situation with the Drewe's.  She was a loved child there.. But Marigold will still be in a safe, loving situation,  and will also be a loved child.  And, in fact, it is Edith who has been around Marigold the longest (from Marigold's conception and first breath) and -- considering the breastfeeding--most intimately. Marigold is bonded to Edith also.

 

This isn't all one and none of the other.

 

Its a disruption to be removed from the Drewes'. Of course it is! It's tragic and sad looking at it from their context.  But Marigold is also bonded to the mother who nursed her, was the voice she heard in utero, was the first face she saw when she could focus, and who has been a presence the longest in the child's brief life. The child has retained one bond throughout all these disruptions -- that is Edith.

 

So, while far from optimal -- too many disruptions, too many abrupt changes -- and problem causing in its own right, of Marigold's potential problems bonding probably isn't one that looms largest. She's bonded to both the Drewes and to Edith. And, for all the disruptions, Marigold has always had her needs met, received attention, and been given affection. Marigold hasn't had the most fair of lives but neither has she suffered horrid privation. With love and attention she should have plenty of building blocks to adjust. And I cannot see her as bondless with the woman who carried her, nursed her, travelled with her, and was around so very much that she annoyed the foster parents that Edith paid to look after her. The Drewes would've been fine parents, but Edit is not such a terrible option that she should be denied her child, in part due to all of the pressure brought to bear demanding that she give her up.

 

And I rather hate this storyline because everyone suffers.  Can't there be any happiness?

 

And, honestly, I remain mystified how Mrs Drewe didn't connect things considering Edith's financial support. Where did Mr Drewe explain the money as coming from?  There weren't child welfare agencies paying for the fostering of children. Yet Edith was paying the couple to foster the child. The whole thing is written in the most contrived way possible to create problems when if anyone had stopped to think for 5 minutes, so much more would be obvious (and more equitable arrangents -- or at least honest ones -- could have been made.

 

Just from my own experience, I recall absolutely nothing of my breastfeeding, time in utero, nor the orphanage I was in for the first couple of years of my life, all of which involved regular visits by my birth mother. I DO recall everything about my adoptive parents and my life with them, and would likely have been traumatized had my birth mother snatched me from them at some later point (unless it was one particular teen year when I acted out), so I was not at all with Edith during the incident. She SHOULD have gone through with a formal adoption, which would have required that she not torment herself and the Drewes with regular visists, which really did exaspergate things. I would much rather have seen, as someone upthread suggested, Edith as publishing head of Gregson's company, and her finding some success and happiness there. In fact, that WOULD be a kind of clear win/separation from the perpetual Versus Mary situation that had been a theme of the sister dynamic.

   I hope that Barrows may finally come to some acceptance of who he is, and that maybe Baxter's treatment of him as a human being, which is far more than he gave her, will allow him to mainatin an actual friendship in the house. (I think he had oen with Speleer's character, but that was still fraught with a possible sexual tension.)

   I like Daisy, and hope she leaves eventually to run the farm, but she also needs to learn that Bunting did not create education.

 I was genuinely afraid that Mary was going to take a fall during the ride. I know women rode sidesaddle for leisurely treks, but that seemed so dangerous. there's no control whatsoever.

   Poor Isis. If we lose her, the terrorists win.

Edited October 27, 2014 by NorthstarATL

[shipperx]

Personal episodic memories do not equal bonding.  Bonding forms as part of 'implicit memory' that is present at birth.   Declarative memory (i.e. the ability to learn action --> consequence, facility to learn language, etc) develops within the first couple of years.  Explicit memory and particularly episodic memory (memories of personal events that we can recall) are later. 

 

We all are capable of bonding long before we can form episodic personal memories that we have any hope of recalling, which are roughly absent in everyone (in the long term) to somewhere around 4 years of age.  Very few people retain (real) personal episodic memories from when they are less than  3 or 4.  It's just a biological function of the way the brain works (so many connections and cognitive fuctions are being established in early childhood that retention of episodic recall  appears to be a lower priority in those early developmental stages, and then there are the fuctions of what transforms short term memory into long term memory.)  There are exceptions, but they are exceptions.    And certainly we are capable of forming attachments to people when we are less 4. (I again would think that Marigold has multiple attachments at this stage of her life, including Mrs. Drewe and Edith).

 

The sort of non-bonding that people are speaking of that causes long-term cognitive harm and severe bonding disorder is caused in infancy less than 2 years of age. You can see it in the old monkey studies they once did.  

 

Marigold has not suffered the privations and lack of affection that would obviously result in the sorts of results of those studies.

Edited October 27, 2014 by shipperx

[Pogojoco]

Mary is the worst. I don't understand why she can't be decent to Edith. Ever. Under any circumstances. Did she not also lose her significant other under tragic circumstances? You'd think she could squeeze out at least a drop of empathy for her only living sister. But she's too busy fucking with Gillingham even though she doesn't want him and getting a haircut that would be cute if it weren't for the weird business in the back. I'd rather watch Mabel Lane Fox. She seems sassy in a non-asshole way. Why couldn't we have had her instead of Sarah Bunting?

 

 

Plus the whole "Oh he's dead. I liked Gregson....don't know what he saw in Edith..." is maybe the worst thing she has ever said about her sister. Seriously. 

[DeepRunner]

 

  

 I was genuinely afraid that Mary was going to take a fall during the ride. I know women rode sidesaddle for leisurely treks, but that seemed so dangerous. there's no control whatsoever.

.

 

This is a pro-Mary comment. Intriguing, considering what others have posted so far. Or, at least, if not pro-Mary, concern for bad possibily occurring to a character who does not engender much sympathy at all...

 

Fascinating.

[abbyzenn]

wish that JF had explored why Mary and Edith dislike each other so much.  I think both are self-centered.  To me the real mystery is how did Sybil turn out so kind and loving?

Re the mourning issue and the family.  This is a tough one.  I see Mary's circumstances different.  She was married to Matthew and they all knew him, lived with him and loved him.  While they had met Gregson, only Violet and Rosamund know the depth of Edith's relationship with him.  I don't think Edith ever mention to the rest of her family their plan to marry.  Of course Edith is grieving but I think she was just as self centered as Mary in that scene - what does she want them to do?  I don't think the picnic plan was insensitive.      Mary's behavior in that scene was the worst we've ever seen her and she was totally insensitive.  I also thought is was terrible that Cora didn't go after Edith when she ran out of the room.

 

What's the big deal with Mary's haircut?  Sybil had hers cut years ago.

I thought Edith was downright cruel in her scene with the Drewes.  She doesn't seem to realize that the reality of the situation is that for the past year or so, Mrs. Drewe has been Marigold's mother.  She was the one to feed her, bathe her, dress her, etc.  It was never stated or implied to either Drewes that Edith was just giving them Marigold to look after until she could take her or provide for her in some other way (a fostering situation).  To the Drewes, they were to raise Marigold as one of their own, to be her family and that they did.  It was obvious that Mrs. Drewe loved Marigold.  .

While I don't like either Mary or Edith, I'd rather watch Mary because you never know what is going to come out of her mouth.  you never know what she is going to do.  While Edith is just always a droopy "woe is me" .

For the first time, when I watched the episode I got the feeling that maybe the show is going to end this season.  It seemed like for a number of characters their future was being decided or hinted at - Mrs. Patmore and her cottage, Thomas make peace with himself, Hughes and Carson, Daisy does something with her education, Isobel goes off with Merton, Rose with Atticus, Edith owns a publishing company and is with Marigold.  Mary will end up alone but with Downton which is all she's ever. wanted.

[bluebonnet]

Yes, people seem to forget that Edith nursed Marigold for at least a month, probably more like two, before leaving her in Switzerland.  And that is an extremely bonding experience.  As you said, she has been more or less a constant presence in her life.  So she's not being handed over to a stranger or anything.  Of course I feel badly for Mrs.  Drewe.  It was heartbreaking but it would be just as heartbreaking to see Edith lose her only child forever.

No, no one has forgotten that Edith was Marigold's first primary caretaker.  That's why it's been noted several times in this thread that Marigold has abruptly removed from three caretakers at this point.

 

Edith's role and the original primary caretaker doesn't mean much when Marigold was given another primary caretaker.  Edith effectively disappeared and that original attachment was damaged.  This wasn't a case of Edith leaving leaving Marigold at the daycare while she went to work or leaving Marigold with known grandparents for a weekend.  Marigold's primary caretaker changed.  The same thing happened when Edith removed her and placed her with the Drewes.  A new change in primary caretaker occurred.  It doesn't really matter if Edith was there at the beginning or was there for a few days when bringing her back from Switzerland or was there off and on while Marigold was living with the Drewes.  Edith can be familiar and still not occupy the primary caretaker role.  

 

In real life, Marigold's ability to attach would be a very serious concern.  Perhaps I'm unfairly expecting others to understand this.  I probably have more consideration for children than the average person.  Some people care most about animals, others care most about hair and fashion...I care about kids.  I suppose my professional and personal background does lend itself to being better educated about the basics of child development.  *shrug*  It's probably not worth feeling so infuriated over something this important since it's connected with one of the dumbest shows on TV.  I'll do my best keep my fury to myself from now on and just keep my fingers crossed that this sort of ignorance isn't present in anyone's real life interaction with kids.  

[NotBothered]

I thought it was interesting that really no one seemed to understand the depth of Edith's relationships with Gregson.  Their courtship really was quite short and done mostly away from the family.  I'm not sure anyone thinks they were anywhere close to marriage.

 

So while I think Mary behaved very badly, I am going to cut her a little slack (*ducks rotten vegetables being chucked in her direction*).  From her perspective this is probably not even equivalent to Evelyn dying, and I think she would have thought not moving on from that after two years was a little excessive. They've just been through WWI, Matthew, and Sybil's deaths...seemingly much more tragic than Gregson.  From their perspective, Gregson was not much more than an acquaintance and co-worker, who somewhat oddly left his company to Edith.  Of course, the writing has done a very bad job showing this.  All we've seen is two years (?) of Edith moping around the house looking stricken and people generally ignoring her, instead of wondering just why she's gone to pieces over someone she only knew for maybe a year (I hate how opaque the timeline is on this show...I never know how much time has passed).  To be honest, I would probably be thinking Edith should get on with it at this point too, and I don't consider myself particularly lacking in empathy.

 

ETA: I'm pretty sure if Isis had bit it in this episode, everyone in the family would have been more upset about the dog than Edith. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by NotBothered

[Eolivet]

I'm usually very able to forgive Mary her flaws, but I thought she was really awful this episode. And I blame Blake. I think he's highlighting her bad side, by being such an ass himself. I'm sorry, I just can't stand the man. I don't find him entertaining or funny, I just find him annoying and even more narcistic than Mary. With Mary we had one self loving, arrogant and snotty character on the show already and sometimes even saw her good sides, but with Blake we have yet another one - the male Mary so to speak - and it is JUST awful.  I can only bear Mary in her scenes with Tom right now. With all characters - even with Anna - she is impossible.

 

And now we are supposed to find this whole "we behave like highschool teens" romantic? And his demand next week "kiss me now!" is supposed to be romantic, too? I feel like in the middle of an episode of gossip girl.

 

Wow, you hit the nail on the head there. I went from tolerating Blake to not being able to stand him. He's a sh!t-stirrer, basically. Gillingham left Mary alone this entire episode, and Blake was still whispering all "See, I got Mabel Lane Fox to come and invite herself to the house! Look at my cunning plan!" When...Mary doesn't need your cunning plan, buddy. She's blown off Gillingham, they got through the race being civil to each other (and not talking) and Blake's in her ear taking credit for the whole thing.

 

As mentioned before, Fellowes has proven he can write sweet, subtle romances this year. I can't imagine we're supposed to find this charming. Bring me Bachelor #3, please.

 

Good point about Mary only being herself around Tom. I've really enjoyed their scenes this season.

[SarahBarah5]

Ultimately, I do think Marigold belongs with her mother, and I'm proud of Edith for finally choosing her daughter over her social status and her family name. With that said, that was horrible to take her so abruptly like that, and I feel sorry for both Marigold and Mrs. Drewe and the long-term damage this will cause. Did the other Drewe kids even get to say goodbye to her?  I wonder if Mrs. Drewe is now beating herself up for not being more tolerant of Edith's visits and wondering if she could have stopped her from taking Marigold away by letting Edith visit more often. 

I think Mabel deserves better than Tony. I like her and hate to see her "fight" for someone who cast her aside, slept with another woman, and now is only back because the other woman rejected him. 

I'm with everyone who is hating on Mary this episode. I wonder what she would have been like at this age if Matthew was still alive. Maybe she would have spent more time with her son and would have used her energy on her family rather than her vanity and toying with men. 

[DianeDobbler]

I know women rode sidesaddle for leisurely treks, but that seemed so dangerous. there's no control whatsoever.

OT: Yes there is. I've never ridden sidesaddle, but I ride. I've met people who ride sidesaddle for events , parades, and more. Sidesaddles are specifically constructed. Your alignment (shoulders, back, pelvis, hips, butt) is still squared with your mount's, same as in riding astride. Your right leg is just bent at the knee and secured by the pommel piece(s). The only security you have riding astride at speed is experience, and your ability to move with the action of your horse, same with sidesaddle. You're not a passenger strapped in. You have to ride. In sidesaddle, you're not riding at a right angle to your horse's forward motion. Your hips and everything else are squared off straight on as with a regular seat. Instead of your right leg flat against the right side of a horse and in a stirrup, it's bent across and secured by a piece, so you're still stable. The rest depends on how good a rider you are, just as a regular saddle.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidesaddle

 

^Link describes history of sidesaddle construction, including a 1915 photograph of a female clearing a 6'6" jump sitting sidesaddle.

 

End OT: I agree that there are similarities in type between Mabel Lane Fox and Sarah Bunting. On the short side, petite, not dissimilar in the face. Hate to imagine they reserved the livelier actress for Mary's story.

 

Seriously with the death of Edith's baby daddy not getting scenes but Mary's haircut being the feature of the episode. This show is ridiculous.

Edited October 27, 2014 by DianeDobbler

[Glade]

This show is so mind-numbing and poorly edited/written.  I would really have preferred to see Edith finding out the news about Gregson rather then watching ten minutes of other people whispering about the fact that she is just about to/just did find out the news.  Way to kill the drama and suspense, also by needlessly dragging plot lines out only to give them tedious and boring conclusions.  Of course everyone dumps Fellowes' idiotic timing onto Edith, including her conceited, nasty sister, who I agree, I couldn't care less about what she does with her hair.  Please never go back to downton, Edith!  Leave those self-centered emotionally abusive sobs behind forever,  book passage to America and live with your grandmother! 

 

The conclusion to the Bates' murder mystery is even duller then it was last time.  Though I guess I can see why Bates has nothing else to do this season when all of his other plotlines are being recycled by Baxter and Thomas--who instead of going to London for anonymous gay sex went for snake oil.  Baxter and Molsely don't seem to be romantic anymore, she's now just a watered down Obrien, best frenemy of Thomas.  I'm so bored with this show. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Glade

[abbyzenn]

I still wish we'd get more than 10 seconds of Sybbie.  There was a still picture released prior to this episode that showed her and George being waited on by Moseley which looked so cute - she had a big grin on her face.  But that got cut.  For what?  So we can see stuff like Mary at the hairdressers?

 

With all ready so many characters why introduce a new lady's maid for Violet? I didn't enjoy the scenes with her (the maid) and Sprat except for Isobel's reaction.  I guess if Isobel leaves when she gets married, the new maid will take her place sparing with Violet.

[Trichromatic]

Plenty to comment about, but I think I'll just rant about the way Edith is treated in this house. I mean it went from apalling, to so appalling it was funny, to where the fuck is this emotional abuse coming from?

 

> The episode opens with Mary making a joke about Greg playing in a tree. That wasn't so bad. But then she says 'oh I don't know what he saw in Edith'. I wouldn't mind that Mary seems to hate Edith with a passion but can someone tell me why? It seems to be so pointless, especially when someone is grieving a loved one.

 

> Lady Grantham's entire support speech for her daugher goes something like this: 'oh poor darling'. and then later, 'oh, she's so unhappy'. She says neither of these things to Edith, which is just as well because she was oh-so-busy with CARING FOR THE DOG.

> Lord Grantham has the good sense to ask the family to give Edith her privacy when the man comes with news. During this episode, however, he does not direct but one single solitary word to Edith. Not even a nod to her after his suggestion to show her that he's got her back. 

 

> We do not get shown the scene where Edith gets the devastating news so we as viewers are limited in how much we can empathise because we haven't seen her reaction. 

> Mary with her fucking hairstyle (!) That was so abrupt and jarring I wondered if she might have done it on purpose to piss Edith off. She should be the first one to understand how much it hurts when you love someone who dies tragically. I don't recall Edith dancing and twirling into Matthew's funeral. Edith has the GALL to shout at her sister and the rest of them for the picnic. Mary's mature response was 'you ruin everything'. No, you know what ruins everything, Mary? Death.

Having said all this, I have the greatest of sympathies for the lady on the farm who took care of Marigold. Her daughter got snatched away, her husband lied and cheated (for no apparent gain of his own?) and she was generally taken for a ride. Giving Edith the teddy was such a sweet thing considering she could have kept it as memento of Marigold. Seeing Edith with her daughter at the end of the episode was very bittersweet because of this. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by lovedwallflower

[ZoloftBlob]

She says neither of these things to Edith, which is just as well because she was oh-so-busy with CARING FOR THE DOG.

 

You're acting like you think Edith *should* rank above the dog!!!! :O

 

I'm aghast! AGHAST I SAY! :O

[bluebonnet]

I'm mostly just curious if Isis' butt will be removed from the opening credits after her show death.  

[DeepRunner]

I'm mostly just curious if Isis' butt will be removed from the opening credits after her show death.  

 

No, it will be Mary's snarky, superior b-goddess smile...