Lazlo February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 If the Flash and (Green) Arrow have comic threads in their show subforums, why not Kara Zor-El? This is the topic for Supergirl in the comics, past, present and future. Unfortunately I have to begin with bad news: Kara's solo title will be coming to an end soon thanks to their mini reboot coming in June. Story here. It is a very odd decision since Supergirl (the comic) sells 26,000 copies a month. Those aren't Spider-Man or Batman figures but she outsells such names as Catwoman and Green Arrow (both of whose comics survive). I can only guess DC are waiting to see how the show works out before re-launching her... but that means Supergirl won't have her own comic when her show starts. Which is surreal. At least Justice League United will continue so Kara will be in one published comic, unless they drop her from that. Anyway, anyone else reading Supergirl and/or Justice League United? 2 Link to comment
legaleagle53 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 It's not the first time that happened. Kara has always had a history of DC not really having the slightest idea what to do with her. Probably the worst example was the way she was treated all throughout the Silver Age (from her debut in 1959 to her death in 1985), including having her title canceled at least a couple of times that I recall and having her identity and life uprooted and changed (sometimes beyond recognition) every few years whenever the writers got bored with her. The fact that the TV series is apparently throwing even established canon out the window therefore means that of course the comic book will follow suit. Can't we go back to about 1981 or so? Link to comment
MarkHB February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I did most of my comics collection from the Crisis era up through the mid-90's, so although I knew of her from my childhood I really only remember books with some of the various pseudo-Supergirls (the Matrix, etc.), except for her leading the charge in Crisis #7, of course. Link to comment
The Crazed Spruce February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I started reading comic in the 1970's, so my earliest memories of her were from her feature in the anthology book Superman Family (where she was an actress in a soap opera in her secret identity), and from the reprints of her Silver Age stories in the old Adventure Comics digests. I also read pretty much every issue of her series from the early 80's (where she moved to Chicago and went back to college; weird, but I remember what happened in her personal life more than the actual action in those comics). I mourned her death in Crisis, but at least she went out in a blaze of glory. I followed the post-Crisis version of Supergirl, but really became a fan of that version during her late 90's series, where the Matrix version merged with a troubled teen and became an "earth-born angel". (Fun story: about ten years ago, I was trying to put together a proposal for an updated version of "The Forgotten Heroes" that I was gonna submit to DC, and this version of Supergirl was one of the lynchpins. But they rebooted their continuity around the same time I gave up the delusion that I stood a chance in hell of starting a career writing comics in my late 30's, so that was that....) Anyway, anyone else reading Supergirl and/or Justice League United?Funny story: The drugstore around the corner from where I live started carrying comic books again for the first time in over a decade about three months ago. (Pretty much all Nu52 titles, with a couple of Archies thrown in, but still, new comics!) They've slowly been expanding on the number of books they carry, but among the first few? Supergirl and Justice League United. :) Link to comment
Chip March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 I have a pretty big Supergirl/Adventure Comics collection. I am a few issues behind on the current series and JLU. I have not really been a fan of the New 52 Super books, but have read most of them. Let's hope the TV show stays away from Matrix! 2 Link to comment
MarkHB May 23, 2015 Share May 23, 2015 For those who haven't heard, the two issues of Convergence: The Adventures of Superman feature the pre-Crisis Superman and Supergirl (complete with her 80's headband). I just bought and read them and they're a fun look back at her and her relationship with Kal, and they're written by Marv Wolfman who, of course, wrote Crisis. Link to comment
Delphi June 19, 2015 Share June 19, 2015 It's not an S. It's the kryptonian glyph for "hope" 2 Link to comment
tessaray June 19, 2015 Share June 19, 2015 It's not an S. It's the kryptonian glyph for "hope" Thanks. :-) Link to comment
MarkHB June 19, 2015 Share June 19, 2015 Can someone explain the S as a family crest? I was comics deprived as a child. Originally (as in the first strips by Siegel and Schuster), it really was an "S" in a shield, and in Silver Age depictions of Krypton Jor-El wore a green outfit with a red and yellow sunburst: The first hint that the "S" shield was actually familial, AFAIK, was in Superman: The Movie, where Marlon Brando wore it on his chest, and other Kryptonians wore other, more abstract designs, presumably related to their families. I'm not sure when the idea may have made its way to the comics. "It means 'Hope'" comes from Man of Steel, and it was also family-related there... but there's no telling if that carries through to this show. 3 Link to comment
tessaray June 19, 2015 Share June 19, 2015 Thanks. Love the artwork. That there are so many variations on each comic universe is the main reason I gave up even trying to figure out Arrow, The Flash, etc... I did buy a combined version of Vanishing Point to get in the mood for LoT, but only because there was time travel. :-) 1 Link to comment
Delphi June 19, 2015 Share June 19, 2015 "It means 'Hope'" comes from Man of Steel, and it was also family-related there... but there's no telling if that carries through to this show. I'm pretty sure that Man of Steel stand on the hope meaning was taken from Superman: Birthright. 1 Link to comment
Kromm June 19, 2015 Share June 19, 2015 (edited) Can someone explain the S as a family crest? I was comics deprived as a child.Consider it this was. Lets say you were a time traveler who went back and visited Ancient China from a time before they saw the Roman or Greek alphabets and saw something that LOOKED like an "S" on some warrior's shield. It's the same thing, but substitute "space travel" for "time machine" and "Krypton" for "Ancient China". Of course when Jerry Siegel first told Joe Shuster to "draw this" back in 1938, they fully intended it as an "S". It was only later on, when it occurred to someone (maybe as has been said above, the original movie people) that it sounded immodest to have the first letter of the name people call you on your chest that clearly a decision was made to change that. Edited June 19, 2015 by Kromm 1 Link to comment
MarkHB June 19, 2015 Share June 19, 2015 That there are so many variations on each comic universe is the main reason I gave up even trying to figure out Arrow, The Flash, etc... I did buy a combined version of Vanishing Point to get in the mood for LoT, but only because there was time travel. :-) You gave up figuring out the complexities of parallel universes but are specifically sticking around for time travel.... I don't know which to do more, respect or fear you :) If you Google Superman logo evolution you will find quite a few detailed infographics, if you're really interested. I'm pretty sure that Man of Steel stand on the hope meaning was taken from Superman: Birthright. Thanks... I never read that so I'll take your word for it. Link to comment
Kromm June 19, 2015 Share June 19, 2015 (edited) If you Google Superman logo evolution you will find quite a few detailed infographics, if you're really interested. EVEN MORE: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ql3MPYc0Mys/UWHGqdCvXvI/AAAAAAAAA_U/_laZt38MXWQ/s1600/1934-superman-logo-evolution3.jpg Edited June 19, 2015 by Kromm 2 Link to comment
tessaray June 20, 2015 Share June 20, 2015 You gave up figuring out the complexities of parallel universes but are specifically sticking around for time travel.... I don't know which to do more, respect or fear you :) I don't think it's the complexity so much as it is the sheer volume. I've been a Doctor Who fan since the late 70s. Star Trek (all versions), Quantum Leap, even Time Trax. :-) (That's not even mentioning time travel in movies.) Thankfully, aside from fanfic, they mostly stay put in their own universes, unlike the various comic franchises. Link to comment
tessaray June 20, 2015 Share June 20, 2015 (edited) Aww... George Reeves' logo is in there? I had nightmares for years after I saw the episode where he walked through the wall - I must have been about 5 or 6. (Not the original airing, there were reruns of it throughout most of my childhood.) Edited June 20, 2015 by tessaray Link to comment
tv echo July 7, 2015 Share July 7, 2015 TV Guide Magazine's SDCC 2015 issue includes a special Supergirl comic - preview has turned up online... http://www.supergirl.tv/tv-guide-comic 5 Link to comment
legaleagle53 July 7, 2015 Share July 7, 2015 (edited) It somehow sounds inappropriate for me to put it this way, but that is the cutest thing ever -- and so true to life about relationships among siblings (I speak from experience as the oldest of four boys). We push one another's buttons and drive one another crazy, mainly because we know we can, but in the end, we're always there for one another no matter what! Edited July 7, 2015 by legaleagle53 1 Link to comment
Kromm July 7, 2015 Share July 7, 2015 That artist is giving Melissa a bit of a man jaw at certain angles. And of course they almost can't help but make the hair far too yellow, since even modern comics use a limited number of colors. But the plot and dialogue are decent. 1 Link to comment
legaleagle53 July 8, 2015 Share July 8, 2015 That artist is giving Melissa a bit of a man jaw at certain angles. And of course they almost can't help but make the hair far too yellow, since even modern comics use a limited number of colors. But the plot and dialogue are decent. I love the slightly snarky tone they've given Kara. Link to comment
Trini July 8, 2015 Share July 8, 2015 That artist is giving Melissa a bit of a man jaw at certain angles. Hmmm... actually, that artist gave everyone a 'man jaw'. :-/ I wonder if the Supergirl costume in the comics will change to something similar to the TV costume? --I'm assume it will, since influences from The Flash and Arrow have shown up in their respective comics. But her costume has been so variable throughout Supergirl's history, would they really go back to such a 'classic' look? Link to comment
Kromm July 8, 2015 Share July 8, 2015 (edited) It's like scanty panty briefs now like the Supergirl pilot (viewable in the First Look) made fun of, isn't it? And stupid ribbon things around her legs that aren't really boots? I guess DC is technically in the middle of another "reboot" event right now though, aren't they? So I suppose by the time they finish that they'll have the excuse to change the outfit (and I guess the character backstory too). EDIT - Actually it looks like they changed her outfit in the last few issues, between this and this: Edited July 8, 2015 by Kromm 2 Link to comment
Trini July 8, 2015 Share July 8, 2015 Yeah, I'd seen that they finally gave her pants, but I highly doubt that's going to last. The previous leotard look wasn't too bad (very subjective, I know), but who's idea was it to highlight the crotch in red?? (Anyway, I'm sure that there have way more eloquent arguments against that--hence, pants.) Link to comment
tarotx July 9, 2015 Share July 9, 2015 That's how superman looks? This new version looks like she just fitted superman's costume. 1 Link to comment
Kromm July 18, 2015 Share July 18, 2015 Can we talk about the twisted history between Toyman and Cat Grant in the comics? That makes it really odd the way they've placed Cat as Winn's boss in this new reboot. Not that it's obvious how (or even IF) Winslow Schott will become Toyman in this show (he's one of at least THREE big potential villain red herrings), but placing his alongside Cat is... discussionworthy. We don't know if this version of Cat has kids (or how old if so) although Calista Flockhart's interpretation of her is anything but maternal. Link to comment
legaleagle53 July 18, 2015 Share July 18, 2015 Can we talk about the twisted history between Toyman and Cat Grant in the comics? That makes it really odd the way they've placed Cat as Winn's boss in this new reboot. Not that it's obvious how (or even IF) Winslow Schott will become Toyman in this show (he's one of at least THREE big potential villain red herrings), but placing his alongside Cat is... discussionworthy. We don't know if this version of Cat has kids (or how old if so) although Calista Flockhart's interpretation of her is anything but maternal. Well, as I recall from the 1986 Superman reboot that introduced Cat (she didn't exist in the DC Universe before then), she had a somewhat less than maternal vibe about her when we first met her. To be honest, I really wasn't a fan of hers back then. Link to comment
Kromm July 19, 2015 Share July 19, 2015 Well, as I recall from the 1986 Superman reboot that introduced Cat (she didn't exist in the DC Universe before then), she had a somewhat less than maternal vibe about her when we first met her. To be honest, I really wasn't a fan of hers back then. IMO that non-maternal thing came later, when she came back after years away, had much bigger boobs and higher skirts. Link to comment
Trini July 23, 2015 Share July 23, 2015 Random question: I know one of the main origins for Supergirl/Kara is that she's Kal-el's cousin who also got sent to Earth, but got stuck/delayed and only arrived decades after Kal-el/Superman grows up. So, has there ever been any published stories about what if Kara and Kal-el arrived on Earth at the same time? I'm not a writer, but I thought it'd be a interesting idea to see what kind of universe it would be if Kara grew up to be Superwoman and Kal-el was her teenage sidekick. Link to comment
legaleagle53 July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 (edited) Random question: I know one of the main origins for Supergirl/Kara is that she's Kal-el's cousin who also got sent to Earth, but got stuck/delayed and only arrived decades after Kal-el/Superman grows up. So, has there ever been any published stories about what if Kara and Kal-el arrived on Earth at the same time? I'm not a writer, but I thought it'd be a interesting idea to see what kind of universe it would be if Kara grew up to be Superwoman and Kal-el was her teenage sidekick. As a matter of fact, there was one such story during the Silver Age. It was an imaginary tale in which Kara arrived first on Earth and met her cousin Kal after she had grown up. Their roles were completely reversed, with her training him in the use of his powers while he kept his existence and identity secret by living at an orphanage under the name of "Cal Ellis" (her secret identity was that of a private detective by the name of "Carole Zorelle."). The problem, though, was that unlike "our" Kara, teen Kal-El had a decidedly rebellious streak and a rather mean, selfish personality. He constantly disobeyed Kara because he was jealous of her experience and was convinced that she just wanted to be the only superhero in the family. At one point, he took some gold Kryptonite capsules from her without her knowledge, and later pretended that exposure to a gold Kryptonite meteor (fake, of course) had permanently destroyed his powers as part of a plan to take over her position as Earth's champion. Ironically, it was accidental exposure to one of the stolen gold K capsules during a fight in which he tried to kill Jimmy Olsen that really did erase his powers, after which Kara super-hypnotized him into forgetting his real identity and origin. The name of the imaginary tale? "The Duel between Superboy and Superwoman." Edited July 28, 2015 by legaleagle53 3 Link to comment
Trini July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 (edited) Nice. Thanks for the info! Edited July 26, 2015 by Trini Link to comment
legaleagle53 July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 That's the story -- although I don't remember seeing the reversed backstories for Kara and Kal in the version I read. This must be the original tale, of which I got an edited reprint that focused more on the actual "war" between Kara and Kal and gave only a one-panel explanation of how they met on Earth. Link to comment
Trini August 16, 2015 Share August 16, 2015 From the spoiler thread, re: love interests : I was going to say "they rebooted the character so many times she never got a chance for that", but that's actually not strictly true. After all, the "classic" version (technically the second one, since there was a one-off version before her) lasted almost 30 years.This bland looking fellow was her boyfriend character:http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Richard_Malverne_(Earth-One) And here's the rest of the list: http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Supergirl%27s_Love_Interests A Merboy! A green alien! A horse! Wait... a horse? Yeah, read the explanation: http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Biron_(Earth-One) Also... some guy with a bad perm! And Lex Luthor! Again... what??? Actually it was Lex impersonating his own son. Or rather creating a fictional son via clone and brain transplant. Whatever. So yeah. No real boyfriend. They could recycle the name "Richard Malverne" in the new series--it wouldn't be surprising--but they're hardly bound by it. Heck, if you read Dickie's poor tale, he in fact dies of cancer by the time she's the age shown shown on this show (of course she'd been heroing since being a teen in that version). Yes, Supergirl's ex actually dies of something as mundane yet upsetting as cancer. TWICE actually. Wow. I never realized they rebooted poor Dick at one point... and that version ALSO died of cancer (with a typical over-complicated late 90s story to back it up): http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Richard_Malverne_(New_Earth) Besides that, hasn't she been paired up with Jimmy Olsen more than once? (Hence his inclusion in this show) I know Jimmy had a crush on her, at least, in Superman: TAS. Link to comment
Kromm August 16, 2015 Share August 16, 2015 From the spoiler thread, re: love interests : Besides that, hasn't she been paired up with Jimmy Olsen more than once? (Hence his inclusion in this show) I know Jimmy had a crush on her, at least, in Superman: TAS. While she seems right for the "gosh gee Willikers" version of Jimmy... I don't think they ever really went there (regularly at least) in the comics as a romantic pairing. The animated version may be the exception more than the rule. There was at least one "alternate universe" pairing with them though. 2 Link to comment
legaleagle53 August 16, 2015 Share August 16, 2015 (edited) I don't get why those two would ever have been shipped like that (in fact, I didn't even know that they were shipped like that!). I mean, they had absolutely nothing in common other than that Jimmy was Superman's best friend and Kara was his cousin. I will admit, however, that Kara would have been a better match for him than his real girlfriend, Lucy Lane. Lucy was a straight-up bitch who almost always treated him like something she'd accidentally stepped in, which is why they eventually broke up. Edited August 16, 2015 by legaleagle53 Link to comment
Trini September 29, 2015 Share September 29, 2015 (edited) Jim Lee, DC Entertainment Co-Publisher, on another Supergirl series: IGN: One last question. The Supergirl show is coming this Fall, but there's no Supergirl comic book on the shelf. Are there any plans to bring Supergirl back with her own solo series?Lee: We'd be remiss if we did not use that as an opportunity. If you look at all the shows, we've tried to do things that both tie in directly into the core mythology of the show itself. But a lot of times you see the best stories featuring, let’s say Green Arrow or The Flash, those are the ones which see the greatest lift when a show becomes a hit. I think you'll see an interesting mix of Supergirl content come out, some of which will closely mirror what's going on in the show, but there's some of the great stories that we publish that we will put out.I think it's exciting to see one of the key franchises lifted and showcased and we have really high hopes for it. Edited September 29, 2015 by Trini Link to comment
arc October 27, 2015 Share October 27, 2015 I read some of the most recent Supergirl trade paperbacks recently and wow, what a different character from the Supergirl in the pilot! What she shares with the comics: angst over being younger than Kal and feeling out of place. What differs: comics Kara is a teenager and rebellious and so angry that she becomes a Red Lantern at one point, and Red Lanterns are literally powered by rage. It's a really different tone from the TV Supergirl here who's problem is timidity and repression. Also, it's kind of perfectly DC to cancel the Supergirl book mere months before the TV show launches. Link to comment
VCRTracking October 27, 2015 Share October 27, 2015 (edited) Chris Sim's of Comics Alliance perfectly details how much of a bitch Silver Age Lucy Lane was to Jimmy Olsen. This panel used in the article pretty much sums it all up: Edited October 27, 2015 by VCRTracking 1 Link to comment
MarkHB October 27, 2015 Share October 27, 2015 I read some of the most recent Supergirl trade paperbacks recently and wow, what a different character from the Supergirl in the pilot! What she shares with the comics: angst over being younger than Kal and feeling out of place. What differs: comics Kara is a teenager and rebellious and so angry that she becomes a Red Lantern at one point, and Red Lanterns are literally powered by rage. It's a really different tone from the TV Supergirl here who's problem is timidity and repression. Also, it's kind of perfectly DC to cancel the Supergirl book mere months before the TV show launches. I think most folks are anticipating a new book, more in tune with the show, to surface soon. Link to comment
The Crazed Spruce October 27, 2015 Share October 27, 2015 If anyone here has the comixology app on their phone or tablet, and is looking to catch up on Supergirl's history, they've got a bunch of Supergirl comics on sale this week. 1 Link to comment
CabotCove October 28, 2015 Share October 28, 2015 Hope to see a Superboy at some point in the show. If Wally and Roy can join Flash/Arrow in second season then I hope Connor Kent/Kon El isnt too far away in show's future. http://www.supergirl.tv/tv-guide-comic Interesting snippet, so what happened to not making this a digital weekly comic?. 1 Link to comment
lion10 October 28, 2015 Share October 28, 2015 Chris Sim's of Comics Alliance perfectly details how much of a bitch Silver Age Lucy Lane was to Jimmy Olsen. This panel used in the article pretty much sums it all up: Get rekt son Link to comment
Lazlo October 31, 2015 Author Share October 31, 2015 Supergirl might not have her own comic but she is currently appearing in Justice League 3001 as a regular: The white haired girl is Terri, the Flash of 3001 who is also adorkable. Link to comment
MarkHB October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Chris Sim's of Comics Alliance perfectly details how much of a bitch Silver Age Lucy Lane was to Jimmy Olsen. This panel used in the article pretty much sums it all up: That would be Jimmy "Tandy" Olsen ;) Link to comment
Kromm November 3, 2015 Share November 3, 2015 I read some of the most recent Supergirl trade paperbacks recently and wow, what a different character from the Supergirl in the pilot! What she shares with the comics: angst over being younger than Kal and feeling out of place. What differs: comics Kara is a teenager and rebellious and so angry that she becomes a Red Lantern at one point, and Red Lanterns are literally powered by rage. It's a really different tone from the TV Supergirl here who's problem is timidity and repression. Also, it's kind of perfectly DC to cancel the Supergirl book mere months before the TV show launches. Don't put so much stock in the "New 52" era of Supergirl (it would have to be that for the Red Lantern thing to apply). Because as much as that's recent, you can tell that the TV show is calling back to far more classic elements than the shitty recent comic reinvention (most of the new 52 are shitty reinventions, which is why most of the movies and TV projects have ignored what they do there... until the movie or TV show becomes popular and then DC winds up changing the COMIC version--rather than the other way around--to match). 1 Link to comment
Chicago Redshirt November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Can we switch the name of this topic to "Supergirl Family in All Media" since Supergirl and her cousin have appeared in live-action TV, film, and cartoons, all of which might be cause for discussion? Link to comment
Chris24601 November 6, 2015 Share November 6, 2015 Don't put so much stock in the "New 52" era of Supergirl (it would have to be that for the Red Lantern thing to apply). Because as much as that's recent, you can tell that the TV show is calling back to far more classic elements than the shitty recent comic reinvention (most of the new 52 are shitty reinventions, which is why most of the movies and TV projects have ignored what they do there... until the movie or TV show becomes popular and then DC winds up changing the COMIC version--rather than the other way around--to match).There's a great comic strip out there which covers this concept, best summerized as "DC Comics: Bad at Math" http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/04-remedial-adulthood/math/ This is not surprising really, as the New52 was brought about by literally the same crowd who created Heroes Reborn (a total reboot of the non-X-Men/Spider-Man Marvel comics that was so bad it lasted less than a year), drove Marvel comics into bankruptcy in the mid-90's and gave us some of the prime examples of what some refer to as the Dork Age of Comics (because their attempts at making comics more 'mature' basically amounted to boobs and gore... ie. what a 13 year old dork would think is dark and edgy). New52 was the textbook definition of insanity; doing the same thing and expecting different results with comics that are basically mashups of the worst elements of the Silver Age (many ethnic legacy heroes were dumped in favor of the prior WASPy versions) with the worst of the Dork Age (lots of pointless sex and violence). Honestly? Supergirl (plus Arrow and Flash) are doing far more to maintain the IP values of the DC comics properties than the comics have done in years (I include MoS and the whole 'Dawn of Justice' thing they're rushing into with the vain hope of duplicating the success of the Marvel films). Its probably going to take a complete housecleaning of management for the actual comics to start being relevant as anything more than a trademark maintenance service for properties Warner hasn't adapted to other media yet. 2 Link to comment
Kromm November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 You know it was interesting to me that apparently in this version people not only know the details of the Krypton story, but even where the planet WAS. On a Star Chart, I mean. Link to comment
Notwisconsin November 11, 2015 Share November 11, 2015 The Helen slater version was actually pretty close to the original comicbook version as far as the origin goes. And yes, Supergirl WAS one of the superpets, which is why they killed her off during the original crisis. Feminism was getting close to a generation old and they didn't know what to do with her. In fact, they never really did. I also never quite get the concept that Lois, Jimmy and Perry would betray Clark on the secret identity schick as soon as they could. Siegal and Shuster, (just before they fired the latter), had this diea of having Lois and company find out and then have them become his helpers. Camine Infanano wouldn't have it. Link to comment
lion10 November 16, 2015 Share November 16, 2015 I found this cool cover of Superman and I liked the explanation behind it. I wonder if they'll work something like this with Kara instead of Clark sitting on a skyscraper. Season 1 would probably be too soon but maybe Season 2 or 3 when she's faced more enemies? Here's the artist talking about how he saw a man dressed like Superman in San Diego Comic Con: "He was perched with one knee drawn up, chin resting on his arms. He looked totally relaxed... and I suddenly realized this was how Superman would sit. He wouldn't puff out his chest or posture heroically, he would be totally chilled. If nothing can hurt you, you can afford to be cool. A man like Superman would never have to tense against the cold; never have to flinch in the face of a blow. He would be completely laid back, un-tense. With this image of Superman relaxing on a cloud looking out for us all in my head, I rushed back to my hotel room and filled dozens of pages of my notebook with notes and drawings." 2 Link to comment
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