Dual Survival - General Discussion

[David T. Cole]

Discuss Dual Survivor here!

[ElleryAnne]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

 

Sri Lanka.

So it looks like they're going to include a couple of disclaimers now with every episode this season, reminding us of the drama behind the scenes and the fact that one of the guys has been let go. 

The episode itself wasn't bad, compared to the S3 episodes.  Leeches creep me out, though.  I hope part 2 doesn't revisit that little issue.

[ElleryAnne]

The hosts battle dehydration and heatstroke while trekking through Oman.

 

 

 

I know this show is essentially fake and that there's a production crew with Cody and Joe at all times, but this may have been the most unrealistic I've seen them yet.  There's no way Joe was allowed to climb that rock face with no safety equipment, and then was left hanging there by his hands to save himself.  It's so annoying when they go for such obvious drama, when the setting and circumstances can provide enough of it naturally.  The fact that those sand snakes exist and that it's a million degrees Fahrenheit in the desert during the day is enough to make the narrative interesting without Joe pointlessly doing stupid things to prove he's He-Man.

 

Also annoying: Joe constantly belitting Cody in his confessionals.  I want to like Joe, and I was hoping he'd be better this season than last, but it looks like that's not going to happen. 

Edited May 8, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[Maleficent]

Even though he wasn't all he said he was military wise...I miss him on the show.  He had a good report with Cody and never took himself too seriously.

[Maleficent]

He's just too serious.  I also think that he's not really considering survival in any fashion that would help anyone other than someone who is trained like he is.  What's worse is that he seems to have very little respect for Cody's skills.  There should be some sort of camaraderie between the two and there just isn't.  I know it may seem weird, but whenever they find civilization, he's all business and there's really no happiness to it.There's no "job well done".  It's tiring.

[Maleficent]

Leeches everywhere.  I don't know...somehow I thought they were larger.  I may watch too many movies, lol.  My husband and I played a game of "How many times can Joe be wrong?" during the first two episodes.  Turns out that's a lot.  We did think it was amusing to see them almost set up camp in a panther's den.  Is it horrible I broke out laughing?  The pure terror on Joe's face seemed totally out of his "character".  

 

Does anybody know anything about the who was let go?  I hope it's Joe.  He takes too many chances and it doesn't seem like he has a lot to teach about survival itself.  I watch Lock Up on MSNBC and there was a Afghanistan vet who was staying in Sheriff Arpio's famous tent city who said that those who serve in the military aren't roughing it at all.  Their lives are most definitely in danger, but the military does the best it can to get them air conditioning in their tents, good meals and whatnot.  There's a huge difference between someone who can survive and someone who can teach others the best way they can survive.  The first two episodes epitomizes this for me.  Joe can survive, but he has little patience for anyone who isn't on his same regimen.

[Maleficent]

 

Also annoying: Joe constantly belitting Cody in his confessionals.  I want to like Joe, and I was hoping he'd be better this season than last, but it looks like that's not going to happen.

 

I'm right there with you.  At least we didn't have to see him, to the detriment of his own health, drink his own pee for psychological reasons.  I thought it was a pile of bull when he mocked Cody for getting food.  All that countless times he spent trying to get food last season and him foolishly trying to kill a cobra for no reason this season...ugh.

 

If they keep him and Cody leaves I'm done with this show.  Joe is damn near un-watchable at this point.  I seriously want him to shave and close his shirt.  Or get some suntan lotion, because he seriously looks like someone rubbed BBQ sauce all over his chest it's so red.  

[Maleficent]

I think he has a good sense of humor and takes the time to teach.  He's not always right, but almost always is better than almost never.

 

Looks like I got my answer...

 

 

“Dear Campers,
Unfortunately, I have been fired by Discovery Channel for differences over safety and health concerns on the show and will no longer be a part of Dual Survival.
Although I’ll miss elements of the show, what I’ll miss the most are my fans and the opportunity to teach – on a global level – life saving skills, indigenous culture, and values of integrity and respect toward our natural world.
I have received numerous letters from viewers. Many are from kids, or their parents or grandparents, describing in detail how the show has changed their lives. It has brought families together, inspired kids to go outdoors, and motivated moms and dads around the world to take that family camping trip, many for the first time. If I can use a TV show to encourage people to turn off TV and turn on nature, I have done my job.
Thank you all very much for your support over the years. Be safe and prepared, and maybe I’ll train with you in the woods some day!
Stay classy,
Cody Lundin”

Edited May 15, 2014 by Maleficent

[ElleryAnne]

Does anybody know anything about the who was let go?

 

 

It was

Cody, unfortunately.  There was a big to-do about it a few months ago when he posted it on his FB page that the show fired him.  The show won't be the same without him.  

[Maleficent]

Well, unless they get two more people, it looks like I'm done.

[ElleryAnne]

What's worse is that he seems to have very little respect for Cody's skills.

 

 

This is the thing that annoys me the most about him.  Last season I thought it was just that he was trying so hard to prove himself and wasn't aware how douche-like he was coming across on TV.  But he hasn't gotten better about it.  He's dismissive and sometimes downright disrespectful of Cody and of what Cody brings, skills-wise,  and I think that's just Joe's way.  

 

I've got a suspicion that the showrunners are just fine with Joe's attitude, too, given the editing lately.

[ElleryAnne]

The hosts are stranded on a glacier.

 

 

 

Bit of double-meaning in the episode title, there.  In case it wasn't obvious from the scene they've been showing at the beginning of every episode this season, Glacial Downfall is the last full episode they completed together.

 I guess next week Matt Graham joins Joe Teti for the rest of the season.

 

I've never hunted, and I've never stumbled across frozen bunnies in the wilderness, but are they really that flat when they're dead?  That poor little thing Joe picked up and carried around looked like it died between the pages of a very large book. 

Edited May 15, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[Neurochick]

I won't be watching this show anymore. The producers fucked it up, and I can't stand Joe.

[ElleryAnne]

A behind-the-scenes look at the series.

 

 

So basically, a behind-the-scenes look at how Cody and Joe were completely incompatible, and the show runners chose to keep Joe over Cody.  I don't put too much credence in how the footage portrayed Cody, since the goal of this episode is specifically to justify getting rid of Cody and they seemed to have about ten minutes total footage in which Cody seemed fed up and burnt out from dealing with the compatibility issues. 

 

From the little bit they showed of Matt Graham, it looks like while his survival skills may be more similar to Cody, he clearly has a similar mindset to Joe.  It also sounded (from the way the producer was speaking at the end) as if they'd lined him up as a replacement before actually firing Cody, though that's just my impression from his words.

 

I get that it's a legitimate issue when one partner constantly sees everything as a mission with a "sense of urgency" while the other sees the scenarios as something to take slowly and carefully and as a teaching opportunity.  But I wish they'd kept Cody instead of Joe.  

Edited May 22, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[wanderwoman]

I have to say...watching cody lose it and giggle over the rattlesnake made me wonder if he was hitting up some desert peyote.  That was freaky.  And, his sissy fit when he thought the camera was off was a little prima donna-esque.  HOWEVER.  It's very hard to know what that little rant was actually about. What didn't he want aired?  If it was the scene with Joe in the creek and Cody tossing shot, that's a little much.  But, how can we actually know that's what it was about?

 

I will say, I think Cody is a survivalist.  I think Joe is a mission oriented, get us out sort.

[Neurochick]

I don't think I'll be watching anymore.  To me, it looked like they preferred Joe because he was younger and attractive, or what they think we women think is attractive.  Matt Graham may be fine, but when I saw his twelve pack abs, I thought, "yes, this is exactly what Discovery wanted."  They wanted to get rid of Cody and put someone they think is "hotter" in that slot.  Also Matt and Joe look too much alike to me. 

 

What's sad is that I used to watch Discovery all the time; now I rarely watch that channel at all.

[walnutqueen]

Disco and GI Joe will get the "action" they want for their mission.

 

If their purpose was to piss me off and make me stop watching this show, then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

[ElleryAnne]

Joe explores an uninhabited island off the coast of Panama.

 

 

 

ETA:  So Joe and the new guy, Matt,get along like a house on fire, I guess.  Joe was smitten as soon as Matt showed him that atlatl spear, since nothing makes Joe happier than learning about a new weapon.  By the time Matt went off with him so they could hunt and kill another poor pig, I think Joe was all but ready to elope with the guy.  They're really trying to sell Matt as Mr. Wonderful.  (Oh, and I'm not liking the pig-killing.  It's unnecessary and senseless.)

 

I think the kicker was Joe's reaction to finding out that Matt had put herbs/leaves in the water he was preparing for them without mentioning it to Joe even as he gave Joe the water to drink.   "Matt's great!  He didn't just boil the water, he added nutritional content to it!"  I half-hoped the nutritional content would turn out to be hallucinogenic, just so I could hear him spin it as another great thing Matt did.

 

In other news, this show isn't even attempting to teach any kind of survival tips that an untrained person could apply in a real-life survival situation.  Joe still sees everything as a mission and everyone (but Matt) as an enemy.  And Matt, well... there was this moment, when they found the waterfall:

 

Joe:  Don't drink that until we boil it.  (Matt drinks some water.)  Did you just drink that?

Matt: Don't worry, I always drink wild water.  I teach my students to drink wild water.  It's not natural for me not to.

Joe:  Have you ever had amoebic dysentery?

Matt:  Yes.  Twice.

<me:  make a note never to take survival classes from Matt Graham.>

 

Also, this is the third time this season (six episodes in) that we've had an OMG!Shocking! near-miss with someone nearly tumbling down a vertical surface.  They need to come up with better drama, or more cautious co-hosts.

Edited May 29, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[BeatrixK]

The rattlesnake giggling was....very weird!  I almost wonder if Cody doesn't have that weird syndrome where the person laughs uncontrollably at the wrong times or something - it was just very odd, even by Cody's standards.

 

I agree with previous posters that it seems like the whole thing was edited in favor of Joe...but Cody did 'give' them footage to use, so there was definitely something in Cody's behavior that production was given to use.  My guess is Cody was just burned out, and it manifested itself in larger and larger hissy fits.

[walnutqueen]

I couldn't help myself - once this episode appeared on my DVR I just had to watch - if only to see what this Graham guy was about.  I wasn't nearly as impressed as Joe was, that's for damned sure.   Joe's going to need some Viagra to keep his hard on for Graham; the fluting, loincloth, hat weaving, wild water drinking and belief in Joe's inner tree hugger is sure to dampen Joe's ardor quickly.

 

I didn't watch the pig hunt. 

 

You're right, ElleryAnne - they weren't teaching us any real survival skills.

[walnutqueen]

I really don't like Joe and I despise his fucking mission statement. 

 

He needs to come to terms with the fact that he is not part of Seal Team Six.   ;-)

[ElleryAnne]

He needs to come to terms with the fact that he is not part of Seal Team Six.

 

 

This.  I have absolute respect for the men and women who serve.  But Joe treats his role on this show as if all of Nature is just another enemy to him.  I know that the premise of the show is that two guys with contrasting styles work together to show how to survive and get yourself rescued, but Joe doesn't just bring techniques to the game - he brings an almost oppressive mission-oriented, take no prisoners mentality to it.  I half-expect him to interrogate a pig the next time he captures one, before he kills it.  And for him, everything is about taking stuff and moving quickly.  He wanted to carry wood for fire over long distances, he wanted to that bunny carcass that time, I think he even wanted to carry whatever he could salvage from that rotting cattle that time.  Maybe those are things that would help him, but they wouldn't help me if I was trying to survive in the wild.

 

Dave supposedly represented the more aggressive/military style of survival skills, but he still managed to teach a few things. I don't know why Joe can't find that balance. (Granted, Dave wasn't Special Forces, but still...)

[walnutqueen]

Also, the whole drinking his own pee and baring his chest to the desert sun for a "psychological advantage"?  Really bad advise.

[wmdekooning]

Yeh, I think Matt is ganna be bringing the weird.

Someone was worrying about Matt being on the same military vibe as Joe.  I don't thing that will be the case.

The look on Joe's face when Matt said he wouldn't kill the rattlesnake because its spirit would come back at them was priceless.

[ElleryAnne]

I've lost track.  Is this the fourth or fifth week in a row that this show has gone to commercial with Joe ready to fall to his death while climbing?  

 

Going back into that cenote was just a poor survival decision.  They didn't really need those glasses - both Joe and Matt already know how to make fire using other resources.  I swear, Joe just wants to show off.

 

I can't figure out if this episode was designed to continue ensuring that Matt looks good as a replacement for Cody, or if Joe was having an off week.   But let's see:

Matt made not one, but two fires.

Matt built not one, but two shelters.

Matt spotted the turkey.

Matt spotted the water.

Matt came up with bug repellent leaves when Joe complained about the bites.  (It looks like Matt's immune to bug bites himself.)

Matt used the conch to call for help.

So basically Matt ensured they had fire, water, shelter and food, as well as a small degree of medical aid.

 

Joe... found the shell of a dead turtle to hold what looked like about four ounces of water at a time for boiling.  Oh, and he may be the one who spotted the light source in the cave so they would know which way to head.  Though frankly, that's the kind of thing I'm sure production worked out in advance, because underwater cave swimming with a production crew isn't the kind of thing that happens spontaneously.

 

Also, Joe?  No one owes it to you to catch and kill rattlesnakes.  Don't give your partner a hard time for choosing to let the snake go while you weren't there.  If you're so hungry, go find and kill one yourself.  Probably wouldn't have been so tired and hungry if he hadn't had to climb out of the cenote a second time, anyway. 

 

I did think it was funny - well, unexpected anyway - that Joe is a peach wine cooler drinker.  I want to like the guy.  I think in RL I would.  But as a survival show host, he's annoying.  He really needs to bring it down a notch or three.

 

 

Someone was worrying about Matt being on the same military vibe as Joe.  I don't thing that will be the case.

 

 

Heh, yeah, that was me.  The first time we saw Matt on the show it looked like he was going to be as quick to kill for food as Joe.  Looks like that won't be the case.  Apparently Matt likes to wait until the second day after arriving someplace before killing any of the local fauna.  Works for me.  

[Neurochick]

 I may start watching again if Matt is different than Joe.

[ElleryAnne]

I may start watching again if Matt is different than Joe.

 

 

Yeah, he's different than Joe.  So far they've been playing up his "hippie in touch with the land" side of his personality.  I know the guy has supposedly actually been living a primitive lifestyle for 20 years, but I'm not sure how much of what we're seeing so far is genuine and how much is played up.  I don't like Matt as much as I liked Cody, but I'm giving him a chance.  As least he doesn't treat all of Nature as his enemy, the way Joe does.

[PityFree]

I cannot stand Joe. HIs little faces after he kills game and his-pseudo judo poses KILL ME. Hate. He's a tough guy pretending to be macho.

 

Also, he got on Cody's nerves and to me that is a huge crime.

[PityFree]

UGH. I hate that they got rid of Cody to keep the Pro-Wrestler-wanna-be, urine drinking, rotten meat eating/de-skinning Joe. Joe is alive only from sheer luck and despite the decisions he makes.

 

I also like to think that the long, lingering shots of his balding pate are an f-you to Joe from the production staff.

Edited June 5, 2014 by PityFree

[PityFree]

I keep re-watching this episode hoping that *this* time, Joe will fall into the crevase.

[ElleryAnne]

Wow.  The Andes are beautiful, with the fog and the moss and the waterfalls.  Early on, they're passing by a rock face that was awesomely huge.  I'm sure it was difficult terrain to handle, but it was gorgeous.

 

Joe continues to find Matt the best thing since sliced bread.  Even when they're disagreeing, he seems to make a point of acknowledging everything Matt does, says and knows as just wonderful.  And Matt has been pretty easy-going about admitting when Joe has a point.  Everything's so copacetic between them.  I get it, production crew.  Joe and Matt are happier together than Joe and Cody.  You can ease up on hitting me over the head with it.  

 

I don't know whether it's an editing thing or what, but Joe is really preoccupied with food and the number of calories they're burning ALL THE DAMNED TIME.  I know this is a survival show and finding food is an issue, but he starts in with the calorie talk five minutes into what everyone knows is only a few days' trekking about.  He's not going to perish from malnutrition that quickly.  

 

He's also contradicting himself in this one.  On the one hand, he doesn't think they should keep trying with the fire bow because they're burning so many calories.  On the other hand, once they've got fire he's all about how you've got to keep going and not give up.   Cake, eat, pick one.

 

But though I tend to criticize Joe a lot, I will him credit for one idea that I really liked - that button-rock thing for tying the string around shelter material so you don't have to punch a hole in it.  That was a cute trick, and something I can see myself actually using in the future.

Edited June 12, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[Quilt Fairy]

What I like about Matt is he keeps saying things like 'These trees are sexy' or 'We're like in the womb of nature here' to which Joe can only pause and reply 'I have no response for that'. Heh. No shit. With him, I might just keep watching the show in spite of Joe and no Cody.

 

The original info I read about Cody's replacement was that he was one of the 4 guys on Dude You're Screwed, and all of those were military. Instead we got a guy who looks like a fill-in for George Carlin's hippy-dippy weatherman. I'm cool with that. Now they just need to get rid of Joe and bring Cody back, and he and Matt can see who can get fires going the quickest.

[Quilt Fairy]

They didn't film this show for a year while they were trying to find a replacement for Dave. From things that Cody has written, they wanted a military type who would balance Cody's more naturalistic style. If Joe was the winner, I must wonder what the also-rans were like.

[Quilt Fairy]

I'm thrilled we at least got Cody's mitochondria in a thread title. 'Cause if someone else didn't do it, I was!

[walnutqueen]

Joe is quite the little fangirl now, isn't he? 

 

"It's great to see I have got a partner that's in such good shape"  as Joe looks up his tree-climbing partner's loincloth.  heh

[ElleryAnne]

The only thing about this episode that stands out to me is that Matt decided not to tell Joe about the snake, given Joe's propensity to want to kill everything immediately.  I laughed so much I missed a whole segment of the episode.

[Quilt Fairy]

I couldn't believe Joe the Jerk was upset at Matt's method of syphoning water. "It's not cool!" Tell me Joe, how would you feel if Matt told you he had found water but didn't bring you any because you were afraid of his spit?

[Cheetosandchoc]

I didn't thin he was really upset about the water. I thought he was trying to be funny. I think they get along pretty well.

[Cheetosandchoc]

Quilt fairy, I mostly agree with you but don't miss Cody. I felt that he pretended to be more laid back than he was. I dunno he seemed like a hard person to get along. Matt seems like a genuinely thoughtful guy.

I loved him calling the trees sexy.

[PityFree]

Ugh. Matt seems cool and everything, but I cannot take Joe's constant gushing about him in his talking head interview scenes.

[ElleryAnne]

His talking heads that praise Matt always sound like backhanded criticisms of Cody.  

[ElleryAnne]

Joe and Matt hunt their target into unfamiliar territory.

 

 

[walnutqueen]

I tune in now just to see how far Joe crawls up Matt's ass.  This week did not disappoint as Joe shyly allows Matt to make him a loincloth.  Golden!

 

New Zealand scenery is specfuckingtacular.

 

And sadly:

In Memory of Alexander Teti who passed during the filming of this episode 1926 - 2014.

 

Condolences, Joe.

[ElleryAnne]

Hilarious.  Most weeks, Joe is all about moving with a purpose.  This week, they start off on a slope with jagged rocks coming down at them, but there might be bullets to be found so Joe admits he'd stay there until the next morning if he could.  It makes me wish for a S5, because one of these days, they're gonna give him a backpack with a grenade for him to use, and he'll be like a kid opening a Christmas present and finding a puppy inside.  And I will laugh.  

 

Matt talks about respecting nature, and I guess he does, but not in the way Cody does.  A couple of times in this episode, I had more of a sense that he sees himself as respecting nature only to the degree that he can make it work for him.  Which, I suppose, is better than Joe's "nature is your enemy" mentality (and I have no doubt Joe knows what a goat would sound like if you punched it in the face), but it lacks the level of respect that Cody showed, which was more of an actual respect for the variety and complexity of species and what earlier people had learned about them.

 

 

I tune in now just to see how far Joe crawls up Matt's ass.  This week did not disappoint as Joe shyly allows Matt to make him a loincloth.  Golden!

 

 

And Matt loves impressing him, have you noticed?  The bromance is strong with these two.

 

 

New Zealand scenery is specfuckingtacular.

 

 

It really is, isn't it?  Even though I've had issues with this season, I do think it's probably included some of the most interesting locations of any season so far.  

 

 

My sincere condolences to Joe, as well. 

[PityFree]

 I have no doubt Joe knows what a goat would sound like if you punched it in the face

OMG! You made me spit out my breakfast smoothie! ROFL!!! So true!

 

Either Joe has a serious bro-crush on Matt or the producers told him to stop acting like such a dick to his co-stars under threat of being the next one canned.

[PityFree]

I realize that they can't use an atlatl in *every* episode, but it must have taken a much longer time for Joe to whittle a cross bow and arrows then they tried to make it appear. 

[PityFree]

Did they rinse out that specimen jar they used to carry water?? It looked dirty to me.

 

It is getting annoying to me how easily Joe compromises with Matt compared to how he fought Cody on every decision. 

 

But though I tend to criticize Joe a lot, I will him credit for one idea that I really liked - that button-rock thing for tying the string around shelter material so you don't have to punch a hole in it.  That was a cute trick, and something I can see myself actually using in the future.

Seriously! I said to myself, "Wow. I actually learned something from Joe."

[Quilt Fairy]

 

I had more of a sense that he sees himself as respecting nature only to the degree that he can make it work for him.

He's supposed to be an expert in primitive living skills, so that attitude seems appropriate. It's a different take from Cody's, but I don't mind it. It's Joe that still drives me away from this show. Can't stand him.

[peaceknit]

I don't have a problem with Joe. He's hardcore, but he was trained that way. He gets the job done. I really like Matt though. He's easy on the eyes and seems like a positive person. He's also not an idiot going barefoot like Cody. I wouldn't choose sandals, but at least they had a bottom to protect his feet. 

[ElleryAnne]

He's supposed to be an expert in primitive living skills, so that attitude seems appropriate.

 

 

I don't disagree with that.  My point was more an observation.  I think, though, that the fact that Matt's view of nature as more utilitarian is one of the reasons he and Joe get along better than Joe and Cody did.  The show's concept of two people with differing approaches to survival is still there, but the styles/views of the two guys are less different (and more compatible) than they were between Joe and Cody.

 

 

He's also not an idiot going barefoot like Cody. I wouldn't choose sandals, but at least they had a bottom to protect his feet.

 

 

MMV, of course, but I don't think Cody is an idiot.  He has spent more than twenty years going barefoot as a way of training himself to be in touch with the land at a cellular level.  He admits that it's a radical approach, but he's done his homework about it and he lives it.  It's not something I would do, and it's not something he encourages others to do without a great deal of study into the subject first, but he's not an idiot who does it carelessly.  He has well-documented philosophical and physiological reasons behind it.  And even at that, he did on at least one occasion create temporary sandals for himself when he deemed it necessary.  And while I don't dislike Joe, one of my problems with him is that he often seemed dismissive of Cody's views.  Joe and Matt get along like a house on fire, but that's because it's not as much of a stretch for him to understand Matt.

Edited June 29, 2014 by ElleryAnne