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Titans [DC Universe]

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Wait. Does Jason become Oracle? Bahahaha. Awesome.

I honestly feel like they couldn’t get the rights to Barbara and they’re using Dawn in her stead. Which is...unsatisfactory, to say the least. (And that’s just on the merits of how amazing Babs is and not even considering Minka Kelly’s breathy baby voice and horrible wig.)

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9 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Such a disappointing episode. We barely got any time on Kory and her origin story. The way it played out it could've been done in 5 minutes way back when. I dont understand how we get an entire 2 episodes dedicated to Hawk/Dove but we spend like 10mins on Kory? In fact this entire episode could've played out last episode.

yeah, it was but on the other hand.....Donna has the Lasso of Persuasion(at least that what they call it in the comics)!!! And star-shaped tracers! I dont care, next season is all about her leaving "Wonder Girl" behind to become Troia. Dick's the leader but Donna's always been the heart of the Titans. Now it's a pipe dream, but it'd be awesome if they got Either Lynda or Gal to play Diana if just for a 5 minute cameo

As for next weeks' finale promo......

Spoiler

As much as I'm gonna enjoy watching Dick take out a clearly gone over the line Batman,  It has to be a mind trick of Trigons.

 

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I figured it was only a matter of time before Rachel's mom turned EEEVIL, so not too surprised on that front. They did trick me with poor, ill-fated Sheriff, though. I thought he would end up playing more of a role than he did.

It wasn't quite clear to me how Dawn got the message to "find Jason Todd." If Rachel had sent that message at some point after everyone else was in trouble, I would understand, but at the time we see her reach out to Hank and Dawn, why would she ask for Jason, rather than ask Dawn to find Dick?

ETA: Kind of a weird concept for a season finale.

Spoiler

Obviously a fantasy sequence- especially considering Trigon himself is shown in the promo as part of the scenario. I would be willing to be that when/if we finally see Batman's "face" in the episode, it will turn out to be Dick.

Edited by Cthulhudrew

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I'm waiting to see how much of that preview is illusory, thanks to Trigon. I'd be surprised if Jason were doomed so quickly, and I don't think he has the temperament to be Oracle.

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2 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I'm waiting to see how much of that preview is illusory, thanks to Trigon. I'd be surprised if Jason were doomed so quickly, and I don't think he has the temperament to be Oracle.

Oh, I'm sure it's pure fantasy. There's SUN. It can't be real. 

ETA: I don't actually think the show would make Jason Oracle, but the juxtaposition of his temperament against Barbara's Oracle is why I think it would be funny. Like, could you imagine Jason Todd being the voice in your ear? None of the information he'd provide you would be useful, he'd talk about his own shit, and scream at you to kill people. Hilarious. 

Edited by Brinny
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Eeeeeehh. It was okay. I don't know. For an action driven show, this episode was kind of boring? 

I'm still enjoying Donna. (Although, I disagree with her assessment that Dick likes the bad girls. Dick likes ALL girls. C'mon. I also don't understand all this Dawn propping. Maybe because I'm just not familiar with her from the comics, but it just seems like an odd choice for a love triangle. Quadrant? I guess Hank figures into there somewhere.)

Rachel's mom being evil isn't really much of a surprise. Drippy, sweet, blonde women in TV and movies are usually the crazies. 

11 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

It wasn't quite clear to me how Dawn got the message to "find Jason Todd." If Rachel had sent that message at some point after everyone else was in trouble, I would understand, but at the time we see her reach out to Hank and Dawn, why would she ask for Jason, rather than ask Dawn to find Dick?

ETA: Kind of a weird concept for a season finale.

  Reveal hidden contents

Obviously a fantasy sequence- especially considering Trigon himself is shown in the promo as part of the scenario. I would be willing to be that when/if we finally see Batman's "face" in the episode, it will turn out to be Dick.

Yep. The whole "find Jason Todd" thing is just strange. Did she even know who Jason was when they met? Other than he was also Robin. But when they asked his name, Dick literally told them it was "not important" and I don't think they ever refer to him after that. 

Spoiler

I feel like you're bang on with Batman turning around to be Dick. To the point where I'll be very surprised if that DOESN'T happen. 

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7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It seems like the whole Dawn/Dick thing would've been better suited for Babs/Dick. 

YEP. 

Someone upthread had mentioned that they don't think Titans has the rights to Barbara Gordon, which would make sense if they're pushing ahead with Dick/Dawn. What I don't understand is WHY they wouldn't be able to get the rights to her. DC doesn't seem to be doing anything in terms of live action with the character right now. She was cut out of whatever Batman/Justice League movie a couple of years ago, right? (Batman v. Superman maybe? I didn't see any of them, but I know Jena Malone was cast.) And she isn't even in the new Birds of Prey movie with Harley Quinn -- unless they're doing some super secret cameo, because there's been no mention of her and the rest of the cast/characters have been announced.  

Like, if you're going to have Donna mention that there's only one good girl that Dick ever fucked it up with, why would that be Dawn? Because this is 100% a relationship that's been manufactured for the show, right? Hawk and Dove are new additions to the Teen Titans in the comics, from my understanding. Not that I think they need to follow the source material down the letter, I just think Dawn is a poor substitute for Babs. 

(I have so many feelings about this. Maybe I just need to put away my Dick/Babs shipper goggles and walk away from the computer.)

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DC has a long history of embargoing characters that they have "plans" for and never do anything with. Ted Kord has been off limits for Arrow because they had ideas for the character though its been 7 years and nothing has happened. 

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4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

DC has a long history of embargoing characters that they have "plans" for and never do anything with. Ted Kord has been off limits for Arrow because they had ideas for the character though its been 7 years and nothing has happened. 

Generally I'd agree with you- and that could certainly still be the case here- but given that this is DC's own channel, and that they are actually okay with using Batman and some other normally off-limits big names (Wonder Woman- although IIRC they haven't actually named her in-show yet), I have to wonder if that is still the case here.

It does seem kind of odd that they didn't use Barbara/Oracle- just as a name drop, even if not using her in the show. It could be that they just really wanted to use Hawk and Dove and figured bringing a love-triangle angle into things would help make their inclusion pop more with the ongoing storyline.

Or maybe they were worried about the show being too Bat-family focused by including Dick, Jason, and Barbara (as well as cameos/name drops of Bruce and Alfred).

ETA: I am annoyed that the inconsistent DC embargo has led to things like the Suicide Squad (and in particular Michael Rowe's Deadshot) being axed from Arrow, and no Ted Kord or Booster Gold ever materializing in any shape whatsoever (let's face it, Brandon Routh's Ray is really Ted, and Stephen Amell's Oliver is just Bruce with a bow. ;) )

Edited by Cthulhudrew
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I believe Hawk and Dove do have some connection to the Titans in the comics, and Babs really doesn't (at least in her Batgirl days), so that may be a reason they used them. 

Jena Malone's role in BvS was restored in the Ultimate Cut, and she wasn't Barbara at all.

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Hawk/Dove have made appearances throughout Teen Titan history. Babs was supposed to be in the TNT version of Titans but was dropped when they moved it to DC so her exclusion isnt terrible but with the story they are telling about Dick it'd probably be best if she were able to do a guest appearance.

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5 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

I believe Hawk and Dove do have some connection to the Titans in the comics, and Babs really doesn't (at least in her Batgirl days), so that may be a reason they used them. 

Jena Malone's role in BvS was restored in the Ultimate Cut, and she wasn't Barbara at all.

Oh, man. I have no clue where I got the idea that she was cast as Barbara in that flick. It's a mystery. My bad. 

I should note that I definitely don't dislike Hawk and Dove (their ill-placed origin story aside), I just think hinting that Dawn was some great one-who-got-away love of Dick's life is an odd story choice.   If they don't/can't/won't bring on Babs, I not sure why they don't just leave it at Dick and Kory, then. If they really need to have manufactured drama, I think they have enough (you know, like, she's an alien, Dick's a closed-off playboy, they "work" together) to sustain them for a bit without having to resort to Dick sticking it in someone else. 

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So finally caught the Hawk and Dove episode and agree I could watch a whole show on these two. Someone mentioned that upthread before I'd seen the episode and I was like "Uh, hard pass" but boy was I wrong. These two have incredibly compelling backstories and it made me really fall for both characters. The way Hank protected his brother is just heartbreaking and then losing him after all that. What an incredibly gripping and upsetting episode. 

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No! Arrow verse will just ruin it like they ruin everything else. Thus far only Flash is staying true to his origins and nemesis and actually using the rich history the comics laid out. I don't want to see Titans turn out like Arrow so Robin can turn around and start treating Oliver like Batman light? No thanks. 

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I've disliked Alan Ritchson since 90210, but he's surprisingly very solid here.

The main cast is really great. Not a weak link in the bunch.

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So it's taken me a while to process my feelings about the last episode and... I'm still quite disgusted. It's taken them 10 episodes to give us back-story on one of the core characters (sorry, Gar) while we've had episodes dedicated to: Doom Patrol, Jason Todd... 2 episodes dedicated to Hawk & Dove, one which was entirely back-story and completely unrelated to the ongoing plot... meanwhile almost every other episode is back-story on Robin, Raven, Robin, Robin and Robin.... and when we finally, finally get an episode that is fricking named after Koriand'r ... it's about Raven, her crazy mom, and of course, Robin. They even manage to sneak in another Dawn reference, completely apropos of nothing. So basically took Kori's stage and used it to prop up not just one, but two white women? In a show called Titans that would be more aptly named "The White Titans, and their White Friends", subtitled, "and these two other POCs"... I'm so disgusted with this episode and the show in general. How long do showrunners think they'll keep getting away with this bait-and-switching?

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1 hour ago, ursula said:

So basically took Kori's stage and used it to prop up not just one, but two white women?

Three; if you count Donna.

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7 hours ago, ursula said:

So it's taken me a while to process my feelings about the last episode and... I'm still quite disgusted. It's taken them 10 episodes to give us back-story on one of the core characters (sorry, Gar) while we've had episodes dedicated to: Doom Patrol, Jason Todd... 2 episodes dedicated to Hawk & Dove, one which was entirely back-story and completely unrelated to the ongoing plot... meanwhile almost every other episode is back-story on Robin, Raven, Robin, Robin and Robin.... and when we finally, finally get an episode that is fricking named after Koriand'r ... it's about Raven, her crazy mom, and of course, Robin. They even manage to sneak in another Dawn reference, completely apropos of nothing. So basically took Kori's stage and used it to prop up not just one, but two white women? In a show called Titans that would be more aptly named "The White Titans, and their White Friends", subtitled, "and these two other POCs"... I'm so disgusted with this episode and the show in general. How long do showrunners think they'll keep getting away with this bait-and-switching?

Remember how Iris West was reduced to wallpaper on a show she was 2nd billed for (just like Anna Diop), while two white women were propped over her (Patty & Caitlin)?  The showrunner for that is the same white woman who wrote the Koriand'r episode.  Gabrielle Stanton.

Gabrielle Stanton's writing repeatedly de-centers black women (even when they are the female leads).  She learned nothing from Shonda Rhymes.  They shouldn't have named the episode after Kory when it's clear they didn't intend to write her as the center - all she did was prop up Rachel and the others.

I feel like it's only going to get worse and as a black woman fan I don't have the energy for seeing another black woman dragged because white showrunners/writers can't stop pushing white supremacy at all costs.  Harsh assessment - yes - but in the age of Trump I don't feel like sugar coating my damn words anymore.

Especially since I had to EFFING PAY for this mess.  

And don't get me started on how they treat Gar.  

6 hours ago, Dee said:

Three; if you count Donna.

Right - the true "heart" of the Titans.  My ass.  I can't deal with this ish again.

About the episode - I admit I didn't see the twist with the mom coming - that felt clever but the rest of this is just a mess.

I'm glad they finally gave Anna Diop more clothes to wear - the way they had her in those purple lame outfits almost makes it seem like they were desperately "othering" her - and she still managed to shine.  This show doesn't deserve her.

I hope Rachel's mom is the first to die.  She's not interesting to me in the slightest - not even as a femme fatale.

Last thought - will Rachel find out her mom killed the sheriff?  Will Gar choose to fight or join Rachel and Team Trigon?  Will Starfire ever be able to fly?

Edited by phoenics
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"and Stephen Amell's Oliver is just Bruce with a bow. ;) )

Don't do Bruce like that! He's been through enough already.

"It does seem kind of odd that they didn't use Barbara/Oracle- just as a name drop, even if not using her in the show. It could be that they just really wanted to use Hawk and Dove and figured bringing a love-triangle angle into things would help make their inclusion pop more with the ongoing storyline. Or maybe they were worried about the show being too Bat-family focused by including Dick, Jason, and Barbara (as well as cameos/name drops of Bruce and Alfred)."

I think they're not bringing Babs into the story at all mostly because Dick/Kory is the show's endgame couple. Can't happen if Barb is there. She and Dick are sidekicks equivalent of Bruce/Selina in that they're gonna be end game, but it's gonna take an eternity for it to ever end. Donna and Dawn almost fill in what her role would be here anyway. The quasi-bestfried/big sister who doesn't take any of his shit in Donna and the one that got away with Dawn.

Plus, bringing any more batfam in (outside of Jason and Bruce's shadow) would take even more attention off of the other characters if for no other reason than everyone loves them/wants to see them. They (the batfam)have such a rich story to tell and an interesting, albeit isolating (and at times un-inclusive), inter-relationship dynamic that they need to just keep it at Dick (and he eats up a lot of story on his own). And, I'll admit, I might be biased (My interest in Kory begins and ends with Anna Diop), I thought this episode was fine in doing what it was meant to do: set things up for the finale. But I agree that they should NOT have named it after the one character that didn't have their perspective shown much in this episode. That was a tease and a disservice to those who were looking forward to it.

Edited by Gwen-Stacys
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Highly unimpressed with the finale. What a way to drop the ball.

Starfire is definitely the highlight of this series.

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Well that was a disappointing finale. Like with most of the season we are left with having to wait for a storyline to finish because they rather do filler then get to the main storyline. We did not need an entire episode of Dick being in his own little world. The pacing for this series has sucked. Wasnt here for Dicks perfect life being with Dawn, wasnt here for fake Batman being wanted by the cops or Dick not being ok with him murdering people when he is fine with Kory doing the same thing.

At least the end credits was good even if a certain someone looked like a glorified Ken doll because they blurred out his privates lol. Now bring on Cassie if we cant have Donna as full time.
 

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That was an okay episode, but a very weird choice for a season finale. Maybe for a midseason cliffhanger, but not a finale. I might have more thoughts later, but not right now.

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Dick is boring.

His imaginary perfect house and his imaginary perfect family are boring.

I don't care about Dick's dull imaginary journey into the abyss. They already did it in the episode where they rescued Raven's mom, and I didn't give a shit then, either. I don't generally care about Batman outside of the DC animated universe, but Dick constantly whining and complaining about the darkness Bruce put inside him wore out its welcome after the first three hundred times he cried about it.

The people writing for this show need to understand that it's called Titans because it's an ensemble. Its universe need not focus on giving Dick long, involved reach-arounds at every turn. The show isn't called Dick Grayson or Robin or Nightwing, so stop acting as though it is.

Seriously, Superboy? I might be here for Krypto, but do we need another mopey, white edgelord eating screen time? Do we really?

This finale is not even overwhelmingly disappointing, it barely whelms on any level.

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On 2018. 12. 21. at 5:41 PM, MarkHB said:

Not specifically the Titans, but part of the family.... (did the new actors voice Larry and Cliff in Episode 4?)

 

Larry definitely had Matt Bomer's voice.

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Season 1 finale post mortem with Greg Walker:

Quote

TVLINE | <snip>... So I’m curious, in part because the episode count changed from 12 to 11: Did your original finale turn into the Season 2 premiere?

A version of that, yes. We’re cannibalizing some of the stuff from Episode 12 [for the premiere]. We thought it was such a good cliffhanger at the end of 11, and we wanted to go for an even bigger, better Season 2 opener. We had a big idea, and our friends at DC bought it.

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Well, that was definitely a...choice for the season finale.

Isn't this the type of episode you do when you're in like the third season and you want to play around? Like, I don't think it was bad. Just not a good finale. Seriously, I know every time I post in this thread, I always marvel at how bad the pacing is, but COME ON. These people have run a show before, right? 

Also, fantasy Dick thinks highly of himself, no? He's been gone for what? Almost a decade? (I dunno. That Johnny kid looked, like, six-ish? And then factor in the years that Dick had been gone before then.) And he thinks that Bruce went bashit (forgive the pun) because he didn't have Dick around to be his conscience? Bitch. We just learned Alfred died. Put two and two together. 

(Although, hey, at least we have confirmation that Barbara exists in this universe. Kind of.) 

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Well that was a fitting end to this season of The Dick and Rachel show.  

What's that you say?  It's called Titans?

Oh.

I'm beginning to think the showrunners just wanted to do Nightwing, couldn't get permission for that, and instead decided to appropriate Titans for that instead.  Even the Trigon story was ultimately used to prop up Dick's manpain/anger/whatever.

It's irritating to me that the episode titled Dick Grayson really was about him - but Kory couldn't have that.  And poor Gar.  Used as a prop to Rachel and to usher in The DoomSquad.

I agree this would have been a much better mid-season finale.  

Also - I'm not at all convinced that Dick/Kory (KnightFire?) are endgame.  Not with these writers/showrunners.

Anna Diop feels too good for this show, tbh.

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On 12/16/2018 at 10:14 AM, slayer2 said:

No! Arrow verse will just ruin it like they ruin everything else. Thus far only Flash is staying true to his origins and nemesis and actually using the rich history the comics laid out. I don't want to see Titans turn out like Arrow so Robin can turn around and start treating Oliver like Batman light? No thanks. 

I describe Oliver as the poor man's Batman, but Batman light works well too. Ha. Seriously, best that Titans stay far away from the Arrow. On the hand, I feel like The Flash, which like you said more true to its comic version, might be a possibility for a crossover with Titans. Team Flash has both light and darkness to it which is something Titans should strive for. And unlike the rest of the Arrowverse, The Flash actually has a talented cast that would benefit Titans.

Edited by SimoneS
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On 12/15/2018 at 5:35 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

...Stephen Amell's Oliver is just Bruce with a bow. ;) )

 

Uh no although Berlanti earns a D for effort. The only true tv portrayal of Bruce Wayne at the moment is on Gotham.

Warner Brothers won't let Titans use Barbara Gordon because it is working on a Batgirl movie. It has been working on it for awhile. Joss Whedon left the project so it is slow going.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batgirl-movie-back-now-bumblebee-writer-1101078

Edited by SimoneS
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On 12/15/2018 at 11:27 AM, Brinny said:

Oh, I'm sure it's pure fantasy. There's SUN. It can't be real. 

ETA: I don't actually think the show would make Jason Oracle, but the juxtaposition of his temperament against Barbara's Oracle is why I think it would be funny. Like, could you imagine Jason Todd being the voice in your ear? None of the information he'd provide you would be useful, he'd talk about his own shit, and scream at you to kill people. Hilarious. 

That actually sounds way entertaining, lol.

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On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎22 at 3:41 PM, marihunc said:

Larry definitely had Matt Bomer's voice.

Imagine having a character whose whole body is completely covered in bandages and casting Matt Bomer, of all people. (I don't mean that in a rude way. I just feel like the dude is kind of known for looking like a Greek statue come to life, no? And, yes. It looks as though they might be using him for flashbacks instead of the physical actor, but still. I also enjoy that around the time he was in White Collar, he seemed to be everyone's favourite fancast for Dick Grayson if they ever did a live action Nightwing.)

@SimoneS, I had no idea they were still making that Batgirl movie. I thought it was just abandoned or stuck in development hell after Whedon bailed. 

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6 hours ago, Brinny said:

I also enjoy that around the time he was in White Collar, he seemed to be everyone's favourite fancast for Dick Grayson if they ever did a live action Nightwing.

Not to mention at one point he was also up for Superman :D

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@Brinny, I thought the same. When I heard CW was making a female Batman series, I thought WB had decided to do Batgirl as a tv show instead. Bumblebee has been solid at the box office and Birds of Prey is supposed to be starting production this month so I wouldn't be surprised if the WB starts moving development of Batgirl along. Below is the latest.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2464204/yes-dcs-batgirl-movie-is-still-happening

Edited by SimoneS

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It's conventional wisdom at this point (at least among those of us, myself included, who get way too wound up over the DCEU) that, while the desire and intent for the Batgirl movie may be real, Whedon's stated involvement was more of a smokescreen to cover his being brought in to take over Justice League.  Personally, I tend to wonder if Barbara may be caught up in the penumbra of Matt Reeves's Batman film and so she'll have to wait until after that's settled as per casting and production design.

Further movie discussion should go here :) .

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I'm seeing reports that Titans is now available on international Netflix (I have no idea on which countries when), so welcome to anyone who's just getting it now!

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So, DC is rebranding and they want their initials to stand for "Dark and Crapsack-y"? I mean, Jesus.

I like the cast, and I think Thwaites makes a mostly sympathetic Robin. Love Donna Troy -- she seems the least dysfunctional, and her sense of humour was a welcome burst of sunshine. (The weak link is Jason Todd, who's kind of a little bitch. Though I did like the scene where Dick is "battling his demons" -- the idea is over-used, but the execution was fine, and I liked the touch of having Young Dick wearing a red hood in that sequence. The actor playing the young version of Dick Grayson is far more able than the actor playing Todd, in my opinion.)

Having not one but two of the women playing variant "Who am I?" plots seems like a waste. I really wanted the episode "Koriand'r" to explain more of Kory's memory loss, her origin, and, most of all, why are they dressing her like a $5 hooker? I like Anna Diop, a lot, and I want to like Starfire (though her powers are nothing like I remember) and, yeah, okay, Starfire's costume is purple, but what's with the orange eyeshadow and hot pink yarn hair?

The pacing of this show is really off; as mentioned upthread, it's tearing through incident at top speed in some ways, and dragging in others -- mostly because a cliffhanger ending in one episode is followed by digression or flashback to a completely (so far) unconnected story or character. The introduction of so many characters can only feel like setup for future seasons. But I may not hang around for a second season if everyone's just writhing around in a hellhole. I'm about one more grody exsanguination away from editing "Fuck Batman" to "Fuck Berlanti."

Edited by Sandman · Reason: I just finished season 1 on Netflix Canada
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Leaked shot of Wonder Girl in costume.  From the awkward lighting it looks like a costume test or something.

Spoiler

 

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Glad she gets a costume....but not a fan of the costume. Unless a chest plate is supposed to go where that "W" cut out...i'd prefer it if it was collard and the material just looks cheap.

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I would have put money on the costume's being a black catsuit with a deep v-neckline -- maybe a few silver stars along one edge of the neck.

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