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Titans [DC Universe]

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Knowing nothing about the characters Hawk and Dove before this episode, aren't they supposed to have powers?  I looked them up after and they are supposed to have enhanced strength and healing abilities which if true is one of my biggest peeves when it comes to live action superhero portrayals. They always nerf their powers and they LOVE showing the physical affects of the beatings the heroes take but that actually takes me more out of the story than if there were no affects at all.  Because if they don't have accelerated healing than they should have a LOT more damage than they show so don't even address it in my opinion.  It is one of the reasons why I can't stand the Daredevil series.  To me his lack of serious injuries is more unbelievable than a man with impervious skin and super strength, or a guy with a glowing fist, or a woman who is super strong and has other superhuman attributes.

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1 minute ago, Unclejosh said:

Knowing nothing about the characters Hawk and Dove before this episode, aren't they supposed to have powers?

Yes, typically in the comics they have had powers, in various forms depending on which version you read.  In this version, they made them straight vigilantes but differentiated their styles and personalities (Hawk is more of a brawler, Dove is a gymnast and dancer and brings that to her fighting style). So far as the extent of their injuries goes, trust the armor???

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Yeah just the whole needing a new hip comment and him being clearly so beat up and broken down from repeated beatings but being stabbed in the side with a huge spike only requires a hot bath to get over really irks me.  I have no problem accepting Raven has a soul demon or whatever inside of her but I cannot get over the injury thing on my superhero shows.  Doesn't bother me as much for regular action shows/movies but for some reason it just grates in superhero/fantasy stuff.  Weird I know.  At least say that injection has an accelerated healing factor or something.

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Humorless grimdark is not my favorite approach to this material. I'm not sure why DC keeps betting on the Zack Snyder aesthetic when it hasn't worked out so well.

It's also a little disappointing that Raven has gone from the agent of bringing the Titans together in the original Wolfman/Perez storyline to a "little girl lost" who needs protecting. The latter was can still be a fine story, but it's well trod ground, whereas the former would be a little fresher and included some moral compromises and ambiguities that are exactly what the show seems to want to portray but struggles with?

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Episode 3: Origins (10.26.2018):

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After being rescued by Kory from the Nuclear Family, Rachel travels with her to the convent where she was raised – a destination that might provide answers about Rachel's past and Kory's identity. Meanwhile, Dick goes in pursuit of Rachel and Kory, the mysterious woman who rescued her – and the journey awakens memories of his own orphanhood and his unorthodox upbringing in the shadows of Bruce Wayne. When Dick finally reunites with Rachel and Kory, he realizes that Rachel's found a new protector in Kory. But the convent is not everything it seems to be and Rachel might have to rely on her guardians as well as a new friend, Gar Logan, to keep her safe.

 

My thoughts: I loved that they used "Sunshine Day" by the Brady Bunch as the bed for the cross-country trip with Raven and the Nuclear Family (and I'm also very glad that the Family might be androids after all).  It seemed very Teen Titans Go! for the team to first meet each other at a roller disco (not to mention Raven ordering chicken and... waffles).  It's a shame that Amy's dead but I'm not sure if it qualifies as a full-on fridging since Dick's reaction was so subdued that I don't think it's going to affect his character at all.  I loved the way that Wayne Manor felt like it went on forever (and they got me with the transition from young Dick in the stolen Porsche to mature Dick pulling into the gas station).

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This episode was so boring and so bad. Almost nothing gelled with one another. The flashbacks, I get what they were trying to do but it wasnt needed, it took me out of the plot and all I got out of it was Dick kept the car. I felt like there was a lot quiet time in this episode where no one talked and didnt really do anything worthwhile that it could've been cut. After last weeks REALLY tight episode, this was the complete opposite.

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Episode 1 wasn't bad, but I feel like the show is really hitting its stride with 2 and 3 (2 especially). I still don't much care for how violent and dark it is (and I don't just mean tonally- the lighting is mostly too dark!), but I'm enjoying it. I hope Dick ends up adopting the Nightwing mantle by the end of the season.

I do feel that the show could have spent a little more time worldbuilding in the first episode, though. I can't quite decide if this is a world where metahumans are a thing, or if Raven and Kory's powers are something new and remarkable (people seem to walk a middle line between being impressed and accepting it as something that happens). I also feel like there isn't really a clear idea of the role vigilantes fill in this world. They are a known phenomenon, but yet heroes such as Hawk and Dove (who have been active at least 4 years) are still unknown faces among the criminal underworld apparently. I just don't quite know what to make of how this world measures up to the DCU.

Also, they seem to be using Game of Thrones style travel- Dick and Raven get from Detroit to DC pretty quick, as does Kory from Russia to DC. And Ohio (from DC) was the first opportunity for Kory to help Raven? Hm.

Edited by Cthulhudrew
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After being rescued by Kory from the Nuclear Family

Kory after burning "Father" to a crisp asks Rachel, "Do you know who I am?" I said, "Er... Fire Woman???", though I'm sure if I had actually been Rachel, I'd have just shaken my head with an emphatic "No."

I'm liking the show a lot better than I thought I would, I am surprised by all of the cussing. There is a lot of it.

Who is the guy who is so interested in cutting off Hawk's man parts? Is he a canon comics character?

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4 hours ago, wmdekooning said:

Who is the guy who is so interested in cutting off Hawk's man parts? Is he a canon comics character?

Not that I'm aware of.

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On 10/21/2018 at 5:02 PM, MarkHB said:

Spoiler article from TV Line.  Geoff Johns bugs me.

Quote

“Will the whole team have costumes eventually?”
The Titans “are all young people from dysfunctional systems trying to form one on their own,” said executive producer Akiva Goldsman. “And as they start to find themselves, they’ll start to find the costumed identities we recognize.”

Eh - I wish people wouldn't harp on the costumes so much. I mean, this is obviously a new and different take on the Titans (not to mention live-action), and the only person whose costume is really important is Robin's, and he has his already. And of course, he'll get to Nightwing eventually. As for the others, their costumes have been so varied over the years, I think the costume designers have free range to do whatever, while keeping only the most basic of elements.

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Really loving this show so far. Might be my favorite new show of the season.   Each episode gets better and better.

Edited by Unclejosh
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Episode 4: Doom Patrol (11.02.2018):

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Now aware of Rachel's power, Dick and Kory unite to find her. Escaped from the convent that sought to imprison her, Rachel puts her trust in Gar who reveals his own transformative powers. Seeking refuge, Gar brings Rachel home to his "family" – a group of misfit medical experiments we will come to know as The Doom Patrol (including Cliff Steele aka Robotman, Larry Trainor aka Negative Man and Rita Farr aka Elastiwoman) – in hopes of helping the girl. But what starts as a place of comfort for Rachel, soon turns dark under the scientific curiosity of The Doom Patrol's leader Dr. Niles Caulder, whose experiment into Rachel's powers threatens to set free a darkness, and reveal a new level of evil waiting to escape.

If this was originally planned as a Hallowe'en episode, they nailed it.  They made it creepy as hell, with just enough levity (Larry in the kitchen) to lighten the mood.  And, they did a great job bringing the Doom Patrol itself to life and showing us their pathos (with, I think, a bonus appearance by Celsius)!  So now, I think we've completed the exposition, on with the show!

 

Favorite quote:

Larry: "Don't make me fight you. You don't want to see what I really am."

Kory (lights up): "Same."

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I know nothing about the Doom Patrol. I like Robot Man, and what I gather is Negative Man, and Rita Farr (is she a version of Clay Face?), but the "Chief" creeps me. Since they're eventually going to get their own series, I should probably go find out who these people are. 

This was the best episode so far (IMHO). It was the right mixture of darkness and humor. I hope we get more of this in the future because I don't much care for the Snyder version of DC. I also hope they lighten Robin the hell up. Turning him into a tortured, blood-spattered psycho misses the point of the character (again, IMHO). 

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Geoff Johns wrote Episode 4 personally, per the credits.   But I might have guessed it anyway. It has his fingerprints all over it.

I'm actually 4 for 4 in liking the episodes, although Episode 3 was probably the weak point relatively, so far. 

I DO wish they'd get Kory a change of clothes already. Aside from there being no need for her to have to continue looking like a sex worker, they must be getting rank about now. I'm guessing that this is their interpretation of her dressing sexy, since they can't use her comic book costume(s), which are mostly naked skin.  And they're trying to key in on purple being her color. But it's really the one thing that's not working (other than the super-lame CGI for Gar's transformations).  They can find other ways to sexualize her if they really think that's her defining characteristic. But what coincidentally looks like hooker clothes on Earth isn't a good way to do it.  I'd say stick with purple, a less metallic shade, but make her clothes look more like athletic clothing. You can even bare her stomach, since so many of the Starfire looks have that, as long as you cover her top half decently. 

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13 hours ago, MarkHB said:

(with, I think, a bonus appearance by Celsius)! 

What's interesting is that I think they kind of combined Celsius with Fever from John Arcudi's Doom Patrol run (the first Doom Patrol I ever actually read and still enjoy, though it seems to be less revered by most). Caulder introduces the woman as Shyleen Lao, which is Fever's real name, but Fever's powers were pyrokinesis, and this woman seemed to exhibit cryokinesis, which would be more in line with Celsius' abilities.

There was also a shout out to Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol run, as the Caulder House is located on "Danny Street" (reference to his DP character Danny the Street) and Cliff's clothing is definitely reminiscent of that run.

In any event, I enjoyed this episode. It definitely had the feel of a backdoor pilot (which it essentially is), as it took the momentum out of the ongoing Titans storyline somewhat. The elements of blending classic horror into the storyline, via Rita Farr's character background as well as the visual of Negative Man (the Mummy) and Robotman (Frankenstein's Monster) was really cool. I suppose those parallels were always there somewhat in the comics, but putting them together with the cinematic visuals of the classic Haunted House theme and music really works on-screen (not to mention the timeless quality of the Doom Patrol characters, some of whom in the show are very old indeed). It was also cool to see the full on "classic" green Gar.

I was kind of hoping Robotman/Cliff was going to step in and help Rachel escape to spare her the horror of a Caulder-made existence, but he did do that for Gar in the end. I'm looking forward to what they do with the Doom Patrol series, even if they are changing up most of the cast for it.

Kory is still the MVP of this show for me (followed very closely by Minka Kelly's Dove).

Edited by Cthulhudrew
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I'm glad they're making a Doom Patrol series because I enjoyed this episode from top to bottom because of them.

This is the first episode where I liked Rachel. I was getting tired of her everything if I'm being honest, but she was funny, playful and accepting with the Doom Patrol and it opened her character up to so much more than her usual panic and dourness. It was nice to watch her connect with them on a level she hasn't with the other characters on the show.

I still don't care about Robin. He's a boring rage monster and I am not interested.

3 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Kory is still the MVP of this show for me (followed very closely by Minka Kelly's Dove).

Kory is perfect. I like her so much I barely gripe about her hair anymore. I can't take my eyes off her--not because she's gorgeous, which she is, but because Anna Diop breathed so much life into Kory in just a couple of episodes. She's amazing!

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Much like Black Lightning, I don't think the dark, gritty and on-the-nose nature of Titans would mesh well with the DCW. But I wouldn't be opposed to a cool callout scene like Cisco accidentally vibing into the middle of a villain fight or something.

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Episode 5: Together (11.09.2018)

Quote

After rescuing Rachel from Dr. Niles Caulder, Dick and Kory hit the road with Rachel and Gar. But when the Nuclear Family tracks them down again, all four decide the time for running is over. For the first time, they work in unison. As they take on the Nuclear Family, we witness the birth of the team that will come to be known as "The Titans."

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Good episode! Major step up from the previous two. 

The fight scenes were really great with Dick and Kory. I love that the family is such a major force for them to take on. Look at shows like Arrow where the minions are always taken out in mere seconds and none of TA break a sweat.

Raven and her basically throwing up black smoke to use her powers though.....needs to go. Along with Gar running away to undress real quick, find him a Cisco who can make him the appropriate clothes.

And Jason leaves us with the cliff hanger as the new Robin.

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GD that was an amazing episode.  I'm shocked I like this series so much.  Ana Diop is AMAZING as Starfire - she's mesmerizing in every scene she's in... she just ... I think someone said it - she breathes such life into Kory.  And she and Robin had some pretty strong chemistry, even if that love scene felt like it came out of nowhere - but whew - loved it anyway.

When Jason Todd showed up at the end I legit screamed, lol.

Darn good show.

It's really too bad so many folks on twitter were dogging it because of the costumes.  The show is so much better than folks gave it credit for.

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Ugh, Jason Todd. Even 5 seconds of him was annoying.

Otherwise, another great episode.

22 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

And Jason leaves us with the cliff hanger as the new Robin.

They'll have a tough road, making him interesting enough to be on screen for what I presume will be a lot of next episode, without making us want to throw up our hands, curse and walk out. I mean even early Jason Todd was kind of a dick, even before they twisted his character up.  

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On 11/4/2018 at 3:30 AM, steelyis said:

Kory is perfect. I like her so much I barely gripe about her hair anymore. I can't take my eyes off her--not because she's gorgeous, which she is, but because Anna Diop breathed so much life into Kory in just a couple of episodes. She's amazing!

I agree, but it really IS well past time to get her a change of clothes.  This really is a case of what works in the comics doesn't always work live action. I'm not outraged by it, and actually think the outfit worked for her role as a seeming pretend girlfriend for the mobster guy (or whatever he was), but it's just getting strange that people in a grounded world don't see her and comment on her looking like a prostitute.  Again, there are ways to have her stick with the purple theme, and even the sexy theme, without it looking like a streetwalker.  And the outfit has gotta um... stink by now.

22 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Raven and her basically throwing up black smoke to use her powers though.....needs to go. Along with Gar running away to undress real quick, find him a Cisco who can make him the appropriate clothes.

I imagine next season will have had him gain clothes that can change. Although part of the reason they are making him get naked is because they know the CGI is a weak point, so they're setting it up so he can't change on a whim, like comics Gar does.

As for Raven's icky power manifestation?  I suppose we can wank that as this is what it's like before she can really control it.

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A couple of questions....

I am not aware that Dick had a relationship with hawkgirl in the comics, did he? Because it sure seems like he did in this show....I know he was kinda a manwhore for a bit, but I don't ever remember hawkgirl being in that circle....

 

I love this show tho, Dick on his own, angry at Batman, and now Jason Todd, that hurt in the comics and I can't wait for it to come together in the show

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2 hours ago, Lyanna19 said:

A couple of questions....

I am not aware that Dick had a relationship with hawkgirl in the comics, did he? Because it sure seems like he did in this show....I know he was kinda a manwhore for a bit, but I don't ever remember hawkgirl being in that circle....

 

I love this show tho, Dick on his own, angry at Batman, and now Jason Todd, that hurt in the comics and I can't wait for it to come together in the show

You mean Dove - right?  That's not Hawkgirl.  And I'm pretty sure Dick did not have a relationship with Dove - because in the comics, Dove is a man and I don't think Dick is gay.  

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2 hours ago, phoenics said:

You mean Dove - right?  That's not Hawkgirl.  And I'm pretty sure Dick did not have a relationship with Dove - because in the comics, Dove is a man and I don't think Dick is gay.  

No, pretty sure Dick isn't gay either lol, but I still don't understand those two and their role with Dick. 

 

Also does anyone know if Donna Troy (Wonder Girl) will be coming to this show? 

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4 minutes ago, Lyanna19 said:

No, pretty sure Dick isn't gay either lol, but I still don't understand those two and their role with Dick. 

 

Also does anyone know if Donna Troy (Wonder Girl) will be coming to this show? 

I think Wonder Girl might be getting her own show?  Not sure.

But Hawk and Dove are two minor DC heroes (a superhero team) - usually with powers - but this show's version has them more as street-fighting vigilantes who fought in the streets with Robin.  My thought, based on what's aired so far, is that Robin hooked up with them once he "broke up" with Batman.  The three of them fought in a crew until Robin left - probably after he slept with Dove.

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19 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I think Wonder Girl might be getting her own show?  Not sure.

But Hawk and Dove are two minor DC heroes (a superhero team) - usually with powers - but this show's version has them more as street-fighting vigilantes who fought in the streets with Robin.  My thought, based on what's aired so far, is that Robin hooked up with them once he "broke up" with Batman.  The three of them fought in a crew until Robin left - probably after he slept with Dove.

Ok thanks so much, I still don't recall any mention of this relationship in the comics but maybe I forgot, I should reread my nightwing collection

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43 minutes ago, Lyanna19 said:

Also does anyone know if Donna Troy (Wonder Girl) will be coming to this show? 

I'm pretty sure she is. Her name was in Dick's phone back in ep.2, and I think she is the brunette in the photo of Dick, Dawn, and Hank from that same episode. 

I really enjoyed this episode, even if at times it did feel a little comic-book cheesy (like the training sequence). I wasn't a big fan of Jason Todd in the comics, either, but I assume they introduced him in order to contrast the person Dick wants to be with the person he felt he was becoming as Robin. And if there is any character in the books that best showcased the bad side of Robin, it was Jason. Hopefully this is a further catalyst to Dick adopting the Nightwing mantle (especially now that his bo staff is effectively two nightsticks.)

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1 hour ago, Lyanna19 said:

Ok thanks so much, I still don't recall any mention of this relationship in the comics but maybe I forgot, I should reread my nightwing collection

Apparently Hawk & Dove appeared in a lot of Teen Titans and New Teen Titans in the 70s and 80s.  I didn't know that myself, actually.  And apparently there is some connection with Batman in a comic somewhere - but I don't know if there was ever a Grayson team up with Hawk & Dove in the comics.  

Maybe that's just for the tv show.

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1 hour ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I'm pretty sure she is. Her name was in Dick's phone back in ep.2, and I think she is the brunette in the photo of Dick, Dawn, and Hank from that same episode. 

I really enjoyed this episode, even if at times it did feel a little comic-book cheesy (like the training sequence). I wasn't a big fan of Jason Todd in the comics, either, but I assume they introduced him in order to contrast the person Dick wants to be with the person he felt he was becoming as Robin. And if there is any character in the books that best showcased the bad side of Robin, it was Jason. Hopefully this is a further catalyst to Dick adopting the Nightwing mantle (especially now that his bo staff is effectively two nightsticks.)

This makes me so, SO excited.  Titans has been a lovely surprise.

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9 hours ago, phoenics said:

You mean Dove - right?  That's not Hawkgirl.  And I'm pretty sure Dick did not have a relationship with Dove - because in the comics, Dove is a man and I don't think Dick is gay.  

For the record,

Spoiler

the original Dove (Don Hall, Hawk's brother) was a guy, but he was killed off in 1986, and was replaced a few years later by Dawn Granger, who's the basis for the Dove in this show. And BTW, they did have powers in the comics. Hawk was superstrong and durable, and Dove (at least the Dawn version) was a graceful fighter who could instantly analyze every bit of data around her and use it to her advantage. For instance, she could pinpoint an opponent's exact center of balance, or even sense when a gun was pointed at her and was about to fire. After a while, they both got huge power upgrades. Hawk became even stronger and nearly invulnerable, and Dawn could fly and emit beams of light. The show's apparently going in a different direction with them, though. (Just as well. That run in the comics ended... kinda messily.)

I don't believe that Dick had a relationship with either version of Dove, but I haven't read all the comics, so I might've missed something.

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3 hours ago, Lyanna19 said:

Btw, world anyone know if Barbara Gordon will make an appearance at all in this show? 

I'm team Barbara for Dick....:)

I like Starfire and Dick, but wouldn't mind a triangle... but isn't the new CW show doing Barbara?  Or is that someone else? I admit I haven't paid attention.

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1 hour ago, Lyanna19 said:

@phoenics what's the name of the new CW show? (I havent heard of it yet)

Well, there will be a Batwoman in the CW Crossover this year and then maybe a spin-off called Batgirl - but it's not the Barbara Gordon version... it's the Kate Kane version?

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10 hours ago, Lyanna19 said:

Btw, world anyone know if Barbara Gordon will make an appearance at all in this show? 

I'm team Barbara for Dick....:)

Ugh....yeah! Though I'm pretty sure Babs is off limits right now which sucks.

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Can I just say how much I loved Gar's reverent "That's Robin!" when he saw Robin show up and kick ass like that?  It was almost to the level of fangirling folks would do if Batman showed up in the middle of a street fight.  And seeing Robin spurred Gar to go BeastMode, lol.  That was awesome.

And Robin's fightscenes are just EPIC.  I cannot WAIT for him to eventually don the Nightwing costume - he's halfway there since his staff got chopped in half, lol.  And now that JT has shown up as "new Robin", that will likely spur a change from Dick that much sooner.

Also - someone said there was a CGI raven?  Where? Which episode did that happen?  Like a full blown, giant Raven enveloping folks?   How did I miss something like that?

Edited by phoenics
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33 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Well, there will be a Batwoman in the CW Crossover this year and then maybe a spin-off called Batgirl - but it's not the Barbara Gordon version... it's the Kate Kane version?

Kathy Kane is Batwoman, Bruce Wayne's cousin (?) I believe. (I also think she's gay, if I'm correct, never really was a fan of Batwoman so I never read the comics.) Correct me if I'm mistaken here.

 

There have been a couple of batgirls, Barbara Gordon, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown.

 

Kathy Kane and her niece Betty Kane were batwoman and Batgirl in the 1950's I believe, but personally I dont count them as being batgirl. For me it starts with Babs. (Just my humble opinion) 

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43 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Well, there will be a Batwoman in the CW Crossover this year and then maybe a spin-off called Batgirl - but it's not the Barbara Gordon version... it's the Kate Kane version?

I believe that the rumor is actually a Batwoman show, not Batgirl, but it hasn't been made official yet. I should also point out that this isn't episode related.

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Kory describing her powers as being derived from absorbing energy from the sun was interesting.  After five episodes, I get the feeling Dick has a guilty conscience that he enjoys fighting, so he blames batman for the feelings.  I do hope he becomes Nightwing.  He needs to divorce himself from batman.  And it is funny that when he is recognized the first question is always ‘Where is Batman?’

 That may be a struggle for Dick, being the leader vs. sidekick.  Robin is Batman’s sidekick, Nightwing commands more respect.  Plus Robin is often a teenage boy, by the time you become an adult, being referred to as a kid would get tedious.

How old are these characters supposed to be?

 

The family, they seem to have some type of enhanced strength, hand to hand training and have a high pain threshold.

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3 hours ago, terxav said:

Robin is Batman’s sidekick, Nightwing commands more respect

As Marv Wolfman wrote years ago, "'Robin' will always be the last part of 'Batman and...'"

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On 11/12/2018 at 8:40 AM, Lyanna19 said:

Btw, world anyone know if Barbara Gordon will make an appearance at all in this show? 

I'm team Barbara for Dick....:)

Barbara was originally set to be in this,  as Oracle I believe,  but that seems to have been changed since Berlanti took over the show and now I'm pretty sure Barbara is locked up in the movie verse or something,  which is a fucking travesty. 

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5 hours ago, MarkHB said:

As Marv Wolfman wrote years ago, "'Robin' will always be the last part of 'Batman and...'"

Lol, yes that sounds correct.

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Episode 6: Jason Todd (11.16.2018)

Quote

Before Dick can reunite with The Titans, he reluctantly teams with Jason Todd, the new Robin, to catch a serial killer targeting performers from Dick's surrogate circus family from when he was a member of the Flying Graysons. But Jason's perspective on Bruce Wayne forces Dick to reexamine the truth behind their falling out.

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Great episode, loved the references to Jason's origins, loved that he's a little prick... But I was NOT prepared to find out that I'm older than Dick's parents!

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