proserpina65 February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 (edited) I got 3 chapters in and thought I couldn't carry on, flipped to a couple of "hot" sex scenes and thought that I'd read better sex in other fanfic, let alone better published kink stuff Hell, I flipped through the first book and tried reading a couple of the supposedly hot scenes and realized I'd WRITTEN better sex scenes, albeit probably pretty vanilla ones. Whenever the women in the building where I work tried to get me to read these crappy books because "they're sooooo sexy!", I wanted to say "Sorry, I like my erotica with more sex and less shitty writing, thank you very much". Edited February 6, 2015 by proserpina65 10 Link to comment
Dandesun February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 Hell, I flipped through the first book and tried reading a couple of the supposedly hot scenes and realized I'd WRITTEN better sex scenes, albeit probably pretty vanilla ones. Whenever the women in the building where I work tried to get me to read these crappy books because "they're sooooo sexy!", I wanted to say "Sorry, I like my erotica with more sex and less shitty writing, thank you very much". Same here. I know I've written better sex scenes in fic. And I've very definitely read plenty of sexy scenes in fic that don't require the woman to be completely reduced to virgin-who-knows-nothing... seriously, I do not find complete innocents in the way of sex to be sexy at all. I enjoy it more when the participants know what they're doing and you can get to the fun of them having fun without having to intersperse "what is he even doing down there?" "He's so large... how is that ever going to fit inside of me?" For fuck's sake... I've also come across fics that write out abuse in terms of allegedly being 'sexy' and stopped reading those fics because. yeah, not sexy. 2 Link to comment
proserpina65 February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 I do not find complete innocents in the way of sex to be sexy at all. I enjoy it more when the participants know what they're doing and you can get to the fun of them having fun without having to intersperse "what is he even doing down there?" "He's so large... how is that ever going to fit inside of me?" For fuck's sake... I don't mind that "innocent discovering sex" thing in and of itself, if it's well-written, the character enjoys it and progresses naturally to wanting to explore. I've written some things along that lines. But none of these things applied to the scenes I read in 50 Shades; Ana started out stupid and stayed stupid, and badly written stupid at that. 3 Link to comment
Dandesun February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 (edited) But there's 'innocent discovering sex' and there's Ana who, based on the recaps, knows absolutely nothing about sex. Has never been interested in anyone ever despite every guy that she interacts with in the book being interested in her (yeah, I actually did read Twilight and the Ana/Bella thing is pretty obvious... and, damn, Twilight is just a completely different kind of deep hurting) has apparently never touched herself of treated herself like a sexual being. Then you've got the constant "He can't possibly be interested in me! I'm clumsy and plain and blah blah blah" and the internal blithering whenever Christian Grey shows remote interest in her at all. Can't wait to hear how they deal with that in the movie. I could honestly hope that whoever took the book and wrote the screenplay went 'Okay... so everything has to change, obviously...' but I know that's not likely. Although it would be kind of awesome if the screenwriter actually made Ana into a woman with agency and wrote the BDSM stuff like an actual Dom/Sub relationship that requires consensual submission, not completely ignoring the sub's objections to what's going on... And the tampon scene... obviously that was never going to make the film. I just laughed when I saw it because I had imagined something far more kinky than it was. But of course Ana was amazed because she's a complete tabula rasa and no experience with anything ever. Hell, I'm surprised she actually used tampons to be honest. Edited February 6, 2015 by Dandesun 3 Link to comment
methodwriter85 February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 But of course Ana was amazed because she's a complete tabula rasa and no experience with anything ever. Hell, I'm surprised she actually used tampons to be honest. Of everything that we're forced to swallow in that book, the one that bothers me the most is Ana not having access to a computer, or even having an email address. I could deal with Ana having a broken lap-top, but Christian setting up an first email account for a 21-year old college graduate was just unreal. They at least don't have Ana wearing pig tails in the making breakfast scene and Christian marveling about how innocently young she looks, thank god. Because really, I love Dakota Johnson but she's definitely on the old-looking end of comparable 25-year olds. 4 Link to comment
Cobalt Stargazer February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Hell, I flipped through the first book and tried reading a couple of the supposedly hot scenes and realized I'd WRITTEN better sex scenes, albeit probably pretty vanilla ones. Whenever the women in the building where I work tried to get me to read these crappy books because "they're sooooo sexy!", I wanted to say "Sorry, I like my erotica with more sex and less shitty writing, thank you very much". I have not read FSOG, but I do recommend the Sleeping Beauty series by A.N. Roquelaure, otherwise known as Anne Rice. This was before the cheese slid off her cracker, fyi, so it isn't all craziness. 3 Link to comment
Bean421 February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 But there's 'innocent discovering sex' and there's Ana who, based on the recaps, knows absolutely nothing about sex. Has never been interested in anyone ever despite every guy that she interacts with in the book being interested in her (yeah, I actually did read Twilight and the Ana/Bella thing is pretty obvious... and, damn, Twilight is just a completely different kind of deep hurting) has apparently never touched herself of treated herself like a sexual being. Then you've got the constant "He can't possibly be interested in me! I'm clumsy and plain and blah blah blah" and the internal blithering whenever Christian Grey shows remote interest in her at all. . Yes to all of this! Then we were supposed to buy that innocent Ana was a sexual savant. 3 Link to comment
Jamoche February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 I really do feel for the scriptwriters. On a normal movie based on a bad book, they can just take the basic plot points and do their own thing with it, but apparently the author was heavily involved with this. 1 Link to comment
Featherhat February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Oh yeah the email thing was insane. I would not have completed about 85% of my uni courses without having access to an official email account. Hasn't that been mandatory since before 2000 at least? 2 Link to comment
Betweenyouandme February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Every school I've been to gave me an email address to use. I don't know if she meant she didn't have a personal email? It is odd. It takes a couple of minutes to set up a new email address, and without one, it would mean she never bought anything online or paid many/any bills. Maybe she has a paypal- don't they require an email? Anyway, I agree. Too much to be believable, especially with something that can't add to the movie but so much. Link to comment
methodwriter85 February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 (edited) I really do feel for the scriptwriters. On a normal movie based on a bad book, they can just take the basic plot points and do their own thing with it, but apparently the author was heavily involved with this. Yeah, E.L. basically took a page from Stephanie Meyer and was a complete nightmare to work with. Universal has to be kicking themselves that they gave her that much creative input. I mean, I can understand not wanting to be someone like Lois Duncan, who's best-known movie adaption isn't remotely like the book (like seriously, I barely recognized I Know What You Did Last Summer when I read the book after seeing the movie), but insisting that Christian can't wear a double-breasted suit because it's not sexy? It's just stupid and petty. That is NOT a rep you want to be gaining from Hollywood. I'd laugh my ass off if it turned out that E.L. insisted on the email/laptop stuff. LOL. Ana had an Ipod, which means she had an Itunes account, yet she somehow never had an email address. Edited February 7, 2015 by methodwriter85 1 Link to comment
MrsRafaelBarba February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Ian Somerhalder should've been Christian Grey. Dakota is too hard looking, why did they cast her? Link to comment
Dejana February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Ian Somerhalder should've been Christian Grey. Dakota is too hard looking, why did they cast her? Ian Somerhalder was not shy about wanting the role, but the production passed. I've heard rumors that EL James didn't like him and they seemed to be aiming for more of a movie star at first. As for Dakota, according to director Sam Taylor-Johnson (per Vanity Fair): After Dakota Johnson auditioned, the team was basically sold, but, “poor girl, we wanted her, but we had to check out three or four or five hundred other girls,” says Taylor-Johnson. “We brought her in again just to check if she was right, and then [making her read with] guys who we were considering for Christian.” Also Anastasia Steele is an EL James avatar of sorts and there's a not-so slight resemblance... Link to comment
ribboninthesky1 February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 That's not surprising. Hasn't James admitted that the story was basically middle-aged wish fulfillment? Authors, probably creative writers in general, are notorious for that. 1 Link to comment
Jamoche February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 I'd laugh my ass off if it turned out that E.L. insisted on the email/laptop stuff. LOL. She lost out on that, according to this article on 5 major differences: Thankfully, Anastasia Steele's (Dakota Johnson) inner monologue -- and goddess -- stays in her head. Although one "Holy cow" does slip in. Anastasia knows how to use email. One of the most confounding things about Ana in the book was her technological virginity.... In the film, Ana's computer is broken, which is why her new master buys her a laptop. Anastasia is completely charming. Most of the criticism of the book has to do with Ana's vanilla, generic and cheesy response to Christian's world. I wouldn't say most, but it is kind of refreshing to read an article where the author isn't pretending the characters are just so, so awesome. Link to comment
Cobalt Stargazer February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Authors, probably creative writers in general, are notorious for that. *eyebrow* I write creatively as a hobby, and if I ever wrote crap like this, I would certainly never show it to anyone else. At the least, I'd use a pen name, then act as if I had nothing to do with it. It's bad enough the poor actors are going to be tied to it forever now. This is the kind of thing that makes fanfic look so awful. 6 Link to comment
ribboninthesky1 February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 I'm disputing how badly written it is - in my earlier post, I wondered why such bad fanfiction was heralded when I know there are better writers out there. My point was that it's pretty common for creative writers to create a protagonist as a stand-in for themselves. That can be true even when a story is well-written. 1 Link to comment
absnow54 February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Exactly, just look at Hannah from Girls. Mary Sue and "self insert" stories aren't the norm in fanfic, but they're common enough to be well known tropes. It's a shame that the worst of fanfic is what's being represented to the general public though. 4 Link to comment
methodwriter85 February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 (edited) She lost out on that, according to this article on 5 major differences: Thank god. It is simply not possible for an American college student in the 21st century to not know how to use a computer or email. I'm also glad that they changed Ana's background. College is pretty fucking expensive, especially if you're out of state, and I didn't buy Ana as someone who was blue-collar yet smart enough to get a scholarship. Edited February 7, 2015 by methodwriter85 Link to comment
Cobalt Stargazer February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 I'm disputing how badly written it is - in my earlier post, I wondered why such bad fanfiction was heralded when I know there are better writers out there. My point was that it's pretty common for creative writers to create a protagonist as a stand-in for themselves. That can be true even when a story is well-written. Fair enough, and perhaps I was just reacting to "Middle-aged wish fulfillment" more than anything else. I can see E.L. James using Ana as her stand-in, but I don't know how common it is for actual good writers to do so. Link to comment
Featherhat February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 (edited) It's pretty obvious that another winner of the "fanfic with serial numbers filed off" game (and that is literally all that was done) Cassandra Claire basically wrote a self insert as well. It's not always a bad thing. "Write what you know" etc and personal perspectives can obviously be very engaging. There are tons of authors who admit in inerviews that so and so is them or this was heavily inspired by events in their real lives. It just becomes an issue if the work is a) *heavily* based on someone else's fantasy self insert and b) more to the point, flat out terribly, horribly written (IMO). OTOH it's also fallacy to assume that because a writer has written has written Protagonist A in such a way that they espouse the writer's political/social/religious view point and I've heard a few authors rant about that sometimes automatic assumption as well. End of the day No Way Ana doesn't have an email or even laptop as college student. Broekn makes more sense, especially or me as mine is currently on its last legs and is only 2 years old. She's a frickin English major with an insane focus on classic heroes and heroines, no way she hasn't taken advantage of ebooks by now to download dozens of books she supposedly loves for free or carry hundreds of books in her pocket at once. By 2005 my high school had almost made it mandatory for the 16-18 year olds to complete all essays by computer, which lead to them offering major discounts on one particular brand and that was 10 years ago. I think it was when I was about 8 that we had the first IT lessons that included email and the start of social networking (Bebo anyone?) And I'm older slightly older than Ana given book publication dates. IF Ana is actually charming then its not what I've seen in the trailers, but I hope she's better than book Ana, because being worse takes us to a much worse place. In the end I agree with Jenny Trout's reviews (which I spent all today reading). It's abuse. Ana has no effing idea what consent actually is, she really loathes Christian's version BDSM but does it because her gutter self esteem and the hot guy manipulate her into it. Bonus she's 200 years historically displaced. I've just read her "deflowering" and it could come straight out of a "Regency Romance" with a "rake" and the Lord's daughter who never knew that "down there" felt so awesome. Newsflash. A woman who is a virgin in her 20s knows about sex, has had orgasms and at least has an idea what they might like from seeing sex on the internet or even just in movies. I think 13 year olds have more sexuality than Ana or at least I did when I was 13. And I didn't have sex until I was 17. 21 and you haven't ever thought about "down there?" BS. Even more BS that you turn into the best CG has ever had in 2 chapters. It's not just that she's somehow "aware" that she's being forced into something she is ever more scared and confused about but carries on anyway, but the continued infantilising of a college graduate who is of age physically but seems pre pubescent in her thinking about sex that's an issue. This books is everything sane, consensual BDSM isn't Edited February 8, 2015 by Featherhat 3 Link to comment
Mars477 February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 Lonely middle-aged housewives of America: this is your fault. I'm just sad that this is probably going to make bank (although watching professional movie reviewers try to parse it is going to be hilarious). I'm just going to leave this here. Link to comment
Cobalt Stargazer February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 http://i.imgur.com/FRXY83g.jpg *mic drop* 4 Link to comment
Jamoche February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 OK, I have just found the best use for this book ever: A real dominatrix says However, Fifty Shades of Grey has some value for me as a domme. I currently use the book in sessions as a torture device. Very bad slaves have to read the book aloud and act out scenes. One of my slaves pleaded for me to stop the pain, offering to receive 100 strokes of the cane if he could just stop reading. Another used his safe word and willingly gave up a year's salary to me to "end this horrific task." So, my inner goddess thanks you, E.L. James, for 500 pages of pure torment. 8 Link to comment
Dandesun February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 I want to meet this dominatrix, have cocktails with her and talk about sexuality and shitty representations of them in book and movie form. Obviously, we wouldn't be seeing THIS movie. 3 Link to comment
bosawks February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 For me the most egregious dangling going on in the book(s) are the participles.... 8 Link to comment
galax-arena February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 The stuff I've heard through the grapevine is that the abusive elements have been way toned down, if not altogether done away with for the film - Christian isn't as possessive/stalker-ish, apparently. And that several bloggers who hated the book got to see an advance screening and actually liked the movie. Link to comment
methodwriter85 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Really? Because Jamie Dornan has been giving serious serial killer vibe throughout the trailers and clips I've seen. 2 Link to comment
Princess Sparkle February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I don't normally read things from Cosmo, but this was linked on Go Fug Yourself and it legitmately made me laugh out loud. In advance of the movie, an author tried all the sex from 50 Shades of Gray in one weekend. 2 Link to comment
galax-arena February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 (edited) Because Jamie Dornan has been giving serious serial killer vibe throughout the trailers and clips I've seen. Hey now, some of us can't help having Resting Serial Killer Face, okay? One article I read indicates that no sex happens for the first forty minutes of the movie. But then what's the point? In advance of the movie, an author tried all the sex from 50 Shades of Gray in one weekend. Why am I not surprised that Cosmo of all mags did an article on this? Edited February 9, 2015 by galax-arena 3 Link to comment
proserpina65 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I have not read FSOG, but I do recommend the Sleeping Beauty series by A.N. Roquelaure, otherwise known as Anne Rice. This was before the cheese slid off her cracker, fyi, so it isn't all craziness. I've read those. And would also recommend them to others as being so vastly superior to FSOG that they hardly are in the same universe. But there's 'innocent discovering sex' and there's Ana who, based on the recaps, knows absolutely nothing about sex. Has never been interested in anyone ever despite every guy that she interacts with in the book being interested in her (yeah, I actually did read Twilight and the Ana/Bella thing is pretty obvious... and, damn, Twilight is just a completely different kind of deep hurting) has apparently never touched herself of treated herself like a sexual being. Oh, absolutely. A lot of the stuff I read/write is historical in setting, so it works better because the main character is raised in a society where girls aren't supposed to think of themselves that way. But Ana wandering around in this decade acting like she's been raised in a convent (by wolves, apparently) is pretty ridiculous. 3 Link to comment
scarynikki12 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Why am I not surprised that Cosmo of all mags did an article on this? If you haven't read it yet, click the link. It's completely hilarious and, if anyone had any doubt, really makes clear how un-BDSM the sex scenes really are. 3 Link to comment
galax-arena February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I did read it. And spent a good minute laughing when the writer mentioned donuts, because I can't be the only one who remembers one of Cosmo's most infamous sex tips. 1 Link to comment
Betweenyouandme February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I did read it. And spent a good minute laughing when the writer mentioned donuts, because I can't be the only one who remembers one of Cosmo's most infamous sex tips. Way to ruin a doughnut. 2 Link to comment
Cobalt Stargazer February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I've read those. And would also recommend them to others as being so vastly superior to FSOG that they hardly are in the same universe. Rice supposedly has a new one in the works, but I haven't been able to get any information on it yet. Link to comment
Jamoche February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 IMAX, really? IMAX? They're really determined to max out the opening weekend take on this thing - there still aren't any early-screener reviews up. Any bets on what the second-weekend drop is going to be? 70%? 80? 1 Link to comment
Zuleikha February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 It's completely hilarious and, if anyone had any doubt, really makes clear how un-BDSM the sex scenes really are. So I will disclaim that I have not read, nor intend to read, the actual books. I've just read the Jenny Trout recaps of Fifty Shades of Grey. The writing is horrible. Like, I really did not believe people about how bad the writing is but I had to know what the tampon scene was or the inner goddess carp was (although in truth, I really did not need to know. Damn me and my addiction to pop culture!). However, assuming the recaps are accurate, I'm confused by why this book is talked about as some kind of BDSM-related thing when the whole point of the first one at least is that Ana doesn't have any interest in submission or masochism and Christian is so into Ana that he keeps having non-contractual sex with her. The sex is BDSM-light, but that's all it claims to be. Ana never signs the stupid contract. Christian breaks all of his intimacy rules. The BDSM-light stuff is explicitly BDSM-light because Christian's going gentle on her not to freak her out. At the end, when she agrees to try real submission, she freaks the f-- out about it and breaks up with him. BDSM is the problem that needs to be solved in the books. Literally. Ana talks about that. I hate myself for this, but I may see the movie. I won't have to deal with the bad writing, and I feel like the movie has the potential to be a fun Showgirls camp thing. I have a feeling a lot of the popularity of the books are because of the OTT ridiculousness combined with a classic taming the bad boy plot. I'm very skeptical of this whole notion that the books promote domestic abuse because I'm very skeptical that most readers aren't slotting them in the "ridiculous fantasy/not to be tried in real life" category. 1 Link to comment
Trini February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 ... I won't have to deal with the bad writing, ... With this and Twilight, the best thing to happen those books were the movies because EDITING. Link to comment
Featherhat February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 However, assuming the recaps are accurate, I'm confused by why this book is talked about as some kind of BDSM-related thing when the whole point of the first one at least is that Ana doesn't have any interest in submission or masochism and Christian is so into Ana that he keeps havg non-contractual sex with her. The sex is BDSM-light, but that's all it claims to be. Ana never signs the stupid contract. Christian breaks all of his intimacy rules. The BDSM-light stuff is explicitly BDSM-light because Christian's going gentle on her not to freak her out. At the end, when she agrees to try real submission, she freaks the f-- out about it and breaks up with him. BDSM is the problem that needs to be solved in the books. Literally. Ana talks about that. I hate myself for this, but I may see the movie. I won't have to deal with the bad writing, and I feel like the movie has the potential to be a fun Showgirls camp thing. I have a feeling a lot of the popularity of the books are because of the OTT ridiculousness combined with a classic taming the bad boy plot. I'm very skeptical of this whole notion that the books promote domestic abuse because I'm very skeptical that most readers aren't slotting them in the "ridiculous fantasy/not to be tried in real life" category. No it's not very BDSM related at all in a lot of ways. You can definitely get more kinky scenes in "mainstream" romance novels these days, let alone something like "Sleeping Beauty." I think it just became a "thing" to say how erotic and kinky it was and it just took on a life of its own. I can't help feel many of the people thinking its kinky would keel over if they even read the description of "The Story of O" and whilst "Sleeping Beauty" isn't for everyone. It says "fairytale + sex slave" on the tin and does what it says. This is not in the least BDSM positive. Ana never warms up to it and its presented as something Christian does because he was abused as a teenager. She never enjoys his complete non sex control of her just does what he wants because she doesn't want to loose him and she's a doormat. So thanks for perpetuating that EL James. It's not in the least sex positive at all. As Jenny Trout says Ana slut shames her roommate for having sex a lot and "dreads" her orgasms. It basically is Twilight only instead of angsting over Edward being a vampire being a problem with their insta true love, they're angsting over Edward's previous sexual abuse and how that ruins their insta true love. Ugg, most people who write kinky billionaire sex AUs (and there are 1000s) at least have both of them enjoying it. It doesn't surprise me that it takes 40 minutes to get to the first sex scene, don't they spend more time arguing about her eating more (seriously that's their true fetish) than having sex. 4 Link to comment
Dejana February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 NY Daily News review: (3 out of 5 stars): Both actors do strip down, and the book's centerpiece scenes are faithfully recreated. But anyone hoping the movie would really push the S&M envelope may find Christian's tastefully shot toy room a little… vanilla. We see a whip here, a handcuff there, but nothing that would shock even newcomers to the series. What Taylor-Johnson does best is balance atmosphere with action: Desks, benches, bathtubs and red leather beds are all creatively employed, as is camerawork designed to show us plenty of skin with just a few full-frontal revelations. Dornan, unfortunately, never evolves into anything more than a pretty face. But Johnson is a true find: She's so committed, she makes Ana's every discovery — in or out of the bedroom — convincing. Though the books always reflected the trilogy's roots as "Twilight" fan fiction, the movie aims to give Ana, in particular, a story and identity of her own. She's smarter and sassier than her literary counterpart, while Christian, thank goodness, is less creepy-stalkerish. Link to comment
methodwriter85 February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) With this and Twilight, the best thing to happen those books were the movies because EDITING. I remembering trying to read Twilight, and thinking, "Oh my god, Bella comes off as a raging BITCH throughout her entire inner dialogue." I couldn't take it. Thank god they toned down her inner monologue considerably. I kind of wonder if the source of Jamie and Dakota's tension is that he wasn't interesting in trying to make the character and story work while slamming the material, while Dakota clearly worked her ass off to inject some much-needed life into her character. It'd be funny if they recast Christian. At a 40-million budget (which would mean they roughly need to make about 60 million to be considered profitable), unless this bombs big, they're looking at two sequels. Edited February 10, 2015 by methodwriter85 Link to comment
CaughtOnTape February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I am as baffled by people claiming they don't understand why these books got so popular as I am by people claiming they don't understand how Twilight became so popular. It's fairly easy to pick out. They became popular because mid-western housewives made them popular. They identified with the character of Ana just as young girls identified with Bella. Ana and Bella are both females who see themselves as completely ordinary (which they are). They weren't remarkably pretty and neither consider themselves to have a particularly interesting personality. Boring, mostly (again, which they are). And then in walks Edward Cullen and Christian Grey. Both described as being so impossibly beautiful that both females find it hard to believe they exist. Despite the fact that Ana and Bella are full of self loathing....both Edward and Christian want them in a way that is kind of scary. Neither man seems to give a shit about her looks or her personality. He just wants her. Period. Did it matter that both Edward and Christian had the creepy stalker vibe? Not really. Because neither girl gives a shit that he has a creepy stalker vibe. Again, he just wants her. And when you're a mid-western housewife who's life is full of play dates, PTA meetings, soccer games and fixing dinner....you placed yourself in the roll of Ana and WHACK....that's all it took. Same with the young girls who placed themselves in the roll of Bella. It's acceptable porn. Women were able to giggle about it at their lunch dates with their kids around without having to admit they watch porn. Because God forbid if you actually watch porn. I'm sure all of you here understand this dynamic, I just had to get it out.....because if I have to read one more person on Twitter declare that they "JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THESE BOOKS GOT SO POPULAR!" I'm going to tear my damn hair out. Link to comment
Dandesun February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I am as baffled by people claiming they don't understand why these books got so popular as I am by people claiming they don't understand how Twilight became so popular. It's fairly easy to pick out. They became popular because mid-western housewives made them popular. They identified with the character of Ana just as young girls identified with Bella. Ana and Bella are both females who see themselves as completely ordinary (which they are). They weren't remarkably pretty and neither consider themselves to have a particularly interesting personality. Boring, mostly (again, which they are). ... Basically Bella/Ana are blank slates that the reader can super-impose themselves onto and live within the fantasy. It's very simple when it comes down to it. It's mindless fantasy and it does appeal to a large demographic of ladies who want the escapism. And since soap operas are very much in the gutter, most don't see that as a means of grafting themselves onto a character to live out that escapism anymore. Most self-insert fics result in a Mary Sue type of character... impossibly beautiful, wildly intelligent and witty, everything the main character said author crushes on could possibly want in a partner. But those tend to appeal to the author. "This is who I wish I was." With Bella/Ana, the female protagonist is so bland that she may as well be utterly faceless which means that anyone can be her and they will override her non-existent personality with their own and then they be the one that Edward/Christian desires beyond all others. Completely fantasy wish fulfillment. Yeah. I get it. I just don't like it. Link to comment
BatmanBeatles February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I think people ask what is so special about this book. Other than the S&M, what makes this book different than your run of the mill paperback romance novel? Link to comment
CaughtOnTape February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) I think people ask what is so special about this book. Other than the S&M, what makes this book different than your run of the mill paperback romance novel? I mean, this is putting it simply but, look at the pictures on the covers of most of those books. The woman is some big breasted, small waisted, thick long haired beauty. And she's usually described in the book as being a woman who's impossibly beautiful but no one really notices. Or she's a princess (I'm kidding). Dandesun hit the nail on the head. Bella and Ana are completely faceless and have no discernible personality traits other than both try (and fail) to be strong against their object of desire. They could be anyone. With FSOG it's the fact that like I said, it's acceptable porn for these women reading the books. I read the first one, I didn't find anything shocking about it. It wasn't remarkable or even that good. It kept my attention, that's about it. For Twilight, Bella was safe and vanilla. She became the heroine. All wrapped up in a neat little bow. There's nothing special about them. Just like there's nothing special about the characters. Which is why it's fantastically easy to put yourself in place of the character. Edited February 10, 2015 by CaughtOnTape Link to comment
galax-arena February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I think people ask what is so special about this book. Yeah, it's not like 50 Shades and Twilight are the first books to play upon the "average girl/wealthy hot love interest" dynamic. So what made these in particular take off? At least Twilight's prose is serviceable. Sure, Stephenie Meyer has a tendency to overuse adjectives - didja know that Jacob's skin is RUSSET? - and her favorite word ever is "chagrin," but other than that... meh. Her writing is nothing special, but doesn't make me wince (mostly). 50 Shades, on the other hand, is execrable. 1 Link to comment
CaughtOnTape February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) and her favorite word ever is "chagrin," INCREDULOUS! You're incredulous, she's incredulous, Edward's incredulous....everybody gets an incredulous! Twilight probably took off because of the supernatural aspect. I got nothin about FSOG other than it was probably in a community letter somewhere and all hell broke loose. Edited February 10, 2015 by CaughtOnTape Link to comment
galax-arena February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I am incredulously chagrined. ...Still heaps better than 50 Shades' "jeez" and "inner goddess" IMO. And I want to know what ellipses ever did to James to make her abuse them so badly. (I abuse ellipses, too. But only on message boards... like this one... ) 6 Link to comment
scarletregina February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Fair enough, and perhaps I was just reacting to "Middle-aged wish fulfillment" more than anything else. I can see E.L. James using Ana as her stand-in, but I don't know how common it is for actual good writers to do so. Stephen King does that regularly. He's been rather open about many of his characters being shades of himself. Link to comment
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