S01.E11: The Sound And The Fury

[Sakura12]

It is annoying but I like that Barry is still learning and making stupid mistakes and is not a insta amazing super hero. Now he has to learn from his mistakes to make this work. I hope that what they are leading up too. 

 

With Iris and her sudden turn to Journalism and it is sudden IMO. Writing a blog for a few months where her best friend (not known to her of course) is the Flash so he will find any excuse to talk to her and getting tips from others does not make her a journalist. That's the same thing they are doing with Laurel. A few months of boxing lessons means she's all ready to be a super hero like Oliver and Sara who trained for years. They are leaning on the in the comics Iris was a reporter and Laurel was the BC, so that is what they are on the show without writing any logical reason for them to be there. Because comics doesn't work for me. 

 

Iris was getting her PhD in Psychology or something. Nothing to do with reporting crimes. 

 

They should've started the show with Iris trying to get a job as a reporter and was struggling because they weren't hiring or they didn't think she was good enough. Then she heard/saw the Flash and decided to start a blog and report on him, while also showing up at the strange strange crime scenes and investigating those then reporting on them in her blog. Look, I just wrote a logical reason for Iris to be a reporter in 2 minutes. 

[driedfruit]

Eh, I think that's an extreme reaction to what actually happened in the episode since it's not like Iris is suddenly a star journalist, kicking ass all over the place. She wasn't hired for her skills at all, and she was floundering all episode, showing off her inexperience and naivety at every chance. The one smart move she made was to show loyalty to her mentor and take his lead, which just shows her practical sense, not newly acquired journalistic prowess. And I imagine her arc for the rest of the series will involve learning from one of the best. 

 

As someone Iris' age, I like that she sort of randomly got sucked into journalism as opposed to how most tv professionals seem to strive for their profession since infancy. The randomness and floundering is much more realistic, for a lot of twenty-somethings these days at least.

Edited January 28, 2015 by driedfruit

[Shanna]

They should've started the show with Iris trying to get a job as a reporter and was struggling because they weren't hiring or they didn't think she was good enough. Then she heard/saw the Flash and decided to start a blog and report on him, while also showing up at the strange strange crime scenes and investigating those then reporting on them in her blog. Look, I just wrote a logical reason for Iris to be a reporter in 2 minutes.

I would have been much happier with that as well. They threw that "oh I took a journalism class" in but they didn't really set up anything else. Even her getting the job was passive - she wasn't applying for jobs in journalism, she just had somebody approach her and hand her a job! And then her interest in what happened to Barry's family was explained as the reason she was interested in the flash, rather than her interest in journalism spilling over. The whole thing is muddled.

Ooh! To add to your scenario, she could have been starting to meet the other journalists at flash crime scenes and being integrated or getting more interested that way...

Edited January 28, 2015 by Shanna

[driedfruit]

Even her getting the job was passive - she wasn't applying for jobs in journalism, she just had somebody approach her and hand her a job!

 

 

Ha, she would've been lucky to get work as an unpaid intern. It's way more realistic that she got her job via connections. 

[KirkB]

Yeah, as I watched the episode I was thinking the people here who had (rightfully) such an issue with Barry not running in to get Cold and HW's guns were going to go ballistic with how easily he disarmed Piper. Even if it was a fakeout on Piper's part. As for sending Cold and HW to regular prison while locking up Piper in their own little secret Guantanamo, the difference is without their weapons Snart and his buddy are just guys. Rathaway is a genius who could probably MacGyver his way out of prison after five minutes in the rec room.

[Primetimer]

A gay villain (awesome) tortures chess metaphors (less awesome) and tries to kill The Flash (even less awesome).

Read the story

[peachmangosteen]

In Wells/Hartley's first scene with the chess playing I wasn't sure if they were going for lovers or father/son, but with every other scene I was getting serious lovers vibes. I can't decide if that was intentional in the writing or more on the actors.

 

There are a lot of problems with this show (Iris' development, Caitlin being written so stupidly, etc) but damn I don't even care because I enjoy this show so much. I love all the characters and I love their relationships.

 

Someone brought up to me weeks ago that they think Joe is going to die and now every ep I am always so tense waiting for it to happen. They better not do it!

Edited January 28, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Shanna]

Ha, she would've been lucky to get work as an unpaid intern. It's way more realistic that she got her job via connections.

But she didn't work for it or look for it. My issue was that she was such a passive character regarding this job, and then she and Barry made a big deal about that being the thing she really always wanted or something...it was sort of jarring. All the journalism interactions were odd to me. I really think if we'd had better build (as I said meeting that guy at flash crimes scenes or some other prior interactions between iris and the newspaper people), this would have played better for me.

If this show kills off joe I will be ridiculously pissed, but the cw does love to kill the parents.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Shanna

[driedfruit]

But she didn't work for it or look for it. My issue was that she was such a passive character regarding this job, and then she and Barry made a big deal about that being the thing she really always wanted or something...it was sort of jarring.

 

I get that it's jarring since TV professionals build up to their careers from kindergarten up, but my point is, Iris' career trajectory is completely realistic in real life. Getting a job you've never pursued based on who you know is completely normal. Ending up in a job that totally deviates from what you've been in school forever for...also totally normal. And I don't see what's so jarring about her and Barry's excitement. She's gonna be getting paid for her hobby...how awesome is that? I'm pretty sure that's every Millennial's dream.

 

I'm not worried about Joe yet. There is a lot to his backstory, with Iris' mom and even Barry's dad (possibly even Barry's mom which could tie into why RF killed her) still left to explore. I'll bet he is safe for this season at least. 

Edited January 28, 2015 by driedfruit

[Atony]

Yeah I don't have a problem with Iris getting the journalist gig because of the Flash blog.  That makes sense.

 

I do wonder if that means she quit the coffee shop.  As that one poster said it is ridiculous if we are expected to believe she is a grad student, a reporter and has a job at a coffeehouse.

 

God, in my Phd program we were technically forbidden from having outside employment.

[driedfruit]

Her barista days are probably over. She doesn't really have rent to cover and she's getting paid at the newspaper, so I can't imagine why she'd keep it. 

[EricJ]

If they're teaming Iris up with a tough, cynical reporter, it ought to be Vic Sage. Though he'd probably fit in better in Starling.

[cambridgeguy]

 

Rathaway is a genius who could probably MacGyver his way out of prison after five minutes in the rec room.

However, unlike Cold and Heatwave Rathaway is a physically weak nerd with no reputation.  Toss him into a regular prison and I can see things going very, very badly for him, especially since he's such a condescending jerk.

[coppersin]

Wells is my favorite, so anything that focuses on him gets my full attention and a big smile. Joe's my second favorite and gets the same reaction. So I'm constantly worried about which of them will die first. (Which is a shame, really, because I think they both bring some much-needed maturity to the cast. And excellent acting skills.)

 

Didn't know that pulling bloody wire from one's ear hit my squick button, but I do now. So thanks for that, show.

[Sakura12]

I guess I'd accept the Journalist thing more if they had a line about Iris looking for work as a reporter. Not just being handed a job out of the blue. 

 

I'm more excited for Malese Jow next week, mostly because I'm still mad they killed Anna so stupidly on TVD. I hope she has a good storyline with both Barry and Iris. Iris needs a friend, since she already has two love interests. I wonder if they'll be introducing a 18 year old Wally (so he would legal)  Or maybe people will start shipping Iris/Linda. 

[Xantar]

Have you guys seen the state of journalism these days? Is it really so unbelievable that the editor of a newspaper would try hiring one of these newfangled bloggers because she has a big following and some of them might follow her to a newspaper? And it's pretty clear that nobody expected her to have actual journalism skills. All they wanted was for her to use her special access to the Flash.

[Shanna]

I did not find it unbelievable that she would be hired, just to clarify. I just wanted to see more of what is going on in her head. If they wanted to make her a passive character, who just shifts with the winds well ok but where did all this "I've got gumption and really care about journalism" stuff come from?

I just would have liked to have the story written differently so I could see where she is coming from.

This is a writing problem IMO because we also have no idea what she's thinking about Barry either as they are just back to normal with no explanation.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Shanna

[bluebonnet]

My issue with Iris' journalism thing is that there is a lack of consistency in her characterization.  First she's complaining about having to fulfill this journalism credit for her degree, now she's speaking as though journalism has been a serious interest she's had for years.  If she chooses to become a serious journalist and put her all into it, great.  But there's no reason to start off in this job as though she's wanted this forever, or even as though she's wanted this for a couple of weeks.  It's just something that happened to her, and that's fine.  Maintaining consistent characterization would have been Iris being excited while also acknowledging that this is a change in what she had previously been working towards.  Something like, "omg I didn't even know I wanted this but now that I have it, I'm so thankful and I'm going to do my very best" would have been more appropriate than some mumbo jumbo about idolizing a certain journalist for forever.  

[Iamsweetdee]

My issue with Iris' journalism thing is that there is a lack of consistency in her characterization.  First she's complaining about having to fulfill this journalism credit for her degree, now she's speaking as though journalism has been a serious interest she's had for years.  If she chooses to become a serious journalist and put her all into it, great.  But there's no reason to start off in this job as though she's wanted this forever, or even as though she's wanted this for a couple of weeks.  It's just something that happened to her, and that's fine.  Maintaining consistent characterization would have been Iris being excited while also acknowledging that this is a change in what she had previously been working towards.  Something like, "omg I didn't even know I wanted this but now that I have it, I'm so thankful and I'm going to do my very best" would have been more appropriate than some mumbo jumbo about idolizing a certain journalist for forever.  

 

Emphasis mine. The above is EXACTLY what her characterization has been from the beginning. She was "forced" to take this class, something she wasn't looking forward to doing...didn't think she would like it, complained about it in the very beginning BEFORE she had really done anything. Lo and behold she started writing, even though it was just a blog.  Hey, what do you know, she liked it. Hey, what do you know, she found her passion. How is that NOT consistent characterization? People keep complaining that they don't "get" Iris because they aren't given insight into her. Well, hell, here's some right here.  She went from point A to point B in a well thought out manner and folks just skip over it and act like it doesn't exist. This is an example of show, not tell and folks still missed it, apparently. 

Edited January 28, 2015 by Iamsweetdee

[SevenStars]

Emphasis mine. The above is EXACTLY what her characterization has been from the beginning. She was "forced" to take this class, something she wasn't looking forward to doing...didn't think she would like it, complained about it in the very beginning BEFORE she had really done anything. Lo and behold she started writing, even though it was just a blog.  Hey, what do you know, she liked it. Hey, what do you know, she found her passion. How is that NOT consistent characterization? People keep complaining that they don't "get" Iris because they aren't given insight into her. Well, hell, here's some right here.  She went from point A to point B in a well thought out manner and folks just skip over it and act like it doesn't exist. This is an example of show, not tell and folks still missed it, apparently. 

 

I agree.  Also, I didn't see Iris acting like this was always her passion. She just seems to be excited that she got a job, is working with someone who is considered to be the best in the game and she wanted to be good at it. 

 

The fact that when she mention the guy's name to Barry, he didn't know anything about the guy, shows that she never had a passion for it because if she had, Barry for sure would have know everything about the guy when she mentioned his name. She probably didn't even know anything about the guy until she got assigned to him and she decided to do some research on him. 

 

I actually like the fact that Iris didn't have a passion for this job and just happen to fall into it because it means that she might not be as hard-core, hard-nose about it. She will be more willing to bend the roles, follow her instincts and make mistake in trying to be the best she can be at it. 

[FurryFury]

God, I'm so digging Wells right now. Please, show, don't ever kill him. He's the most interesting character by far.

 

I liked the villain a lot! Even despite the cheesy Sith Lord get-up (what was its point? Another comic book reference?) I don't agree with those who saw slashy subtext between him and Wells, though. I do think he may have been crushing on his mentor, but if he was, it was strictly one-sided. It's pretty obvious Wells' mysterious agenda is his #1 priority. Although I think he genuinely cares about his team, too. It was telling how he looked at the photo.

 

Iris' sudden interest in journalism wasn't set up well at all. In the pilot, she picks it up to graduate in her chosen field, and now she wants to work as a reporter? Yeah... Yet another evidence that the show doesn't care about her at all as a character in her own right, just as a love interest. Which is bad, because the actress deserves better and continues to be very charming. Anyway, I kinda understand why the writers have done it - back last spring, when the character descriptions were made available, a lot of people were surprised she was a psychology grad student and were wondering how the hell would the show tie her to the main plot. Guess now we know. Although really, journalism is so clichéd. I don't care about comics canon, I just wish it was something more inventive. Maybe she'll get some superpowers later to make her more useful, I'd like that.

Edited January 28, 2015 by FurryFury

[Jordan27]

Unlike Arrow which writes mostly full characters, most of the characters here are clichés with little substance behind them.

 

Quite a few eps have been almost copies.  Bad guy, Flash and gang get together, go after bad guy, fail, regroup, go after bad guy and win. Barry sulks over Iris.

 

Plus, most of the bad guys on Arrow are really bad and capable.  The bad guys here are comic booky and weak.

[Iamsweetdee]

Unlike Arrow which writes mostly full characters, most of the characters here are clichés with little substance behind them.

 

Quite a few eps have been almost copies.  Bad guy, Flash and gang get together, go after bad guy, fail, regroup, go after bad guy and win. Barry sulks over Iris.

 

Plus, most of the bad guys on Arrow are really bad and capable.  The bad guys here are comic booky and weak.

That's interesting, as I see it as exactly opposite. Shows we all see things differently.

[wayne67]

Emphasis mine. The above is EXACTLY what her characterization has been from the beginning. She was "forced" to take this class, something she wasn't looking forward to doing...didn't think she would like it, complained about it in the very beginning BEFORE she had really done anything. Lo and behold she started writing, even though it was just a blog.  Hey, what do you know, she liked it. Hey, what do you know, she found her passion. How is that NOT consistent characterization? People keep complaining that they don't "get" Iris because they aren't given insight into her. Well, hell, here's some right here.  She went from point A to point B in a well thought out manner and folks just skip over it and act like it doesn't exist. This is an example of show, not tell and folks still missed it, apparently. 

 

I guess my problem with it is that the only reason she started blogging about metahumans at all was to prove a point to Barry/the World about magic being real or something. I don't remember her ever saying she liked journalism or cared about it or had any enthusiasm or passion for journalism. She blogged which is entirely different from journalism because A) you can say whatever you like as it's generally an informal setting B) there's no emphasis on presenting an unbiased point of view. It's like saying that my interest in writing Xmen fan fiction means that I can pursue sports writing because I like writing. Journalism theoretically is held to higher standards than internet blogging. Secondly we have no idea how many people were following her blog about metahumans except Caitlin, Barry (sometimes) and Girder.

 

Also writing a blog doesn't mean you start admiring random journalists. I mean how much can you admire someone if you can't keep track of whether he won 1 or 2 major writing prizes? Iris has been shown as consistently slack about research which means she's a terrible journalist, she doesn't know how many prizes her mentor won and she didn't even want to do any research on science stuff because she had a convenient person to do the hard work for her. Blogging requires very little investigation from what little we can gather from her blog she basically posted rumors of metahumans sightings and was given information from the Flash because Barry has the hots for her.

 

I've seen nothing to show that she works hard for anything journalism related other than telling her father and foster brother she wasn't going to quit the blogging about the Streak/Flash. She got the job because she used to have an IN with the Flash before he dumped her and possibly because she has inside information as she's the daughter of a police man.

 

That said I don't mind Iris though I find the fact that Barry and Iris have yet to have a conversation about his confessed feelings deeply frustrating.

[driedfruit]

Emphasis mine. The above is EXACTLY what her characterization has been from the beginning. She was "forced" to take this class, something she wasn't looking forward to doing...didn't think she would like it, complained about it in the very beginning BEFORE she had really done anything. Lo and behold she started writing, even though it was just a blog.  Hey, what do you know, she liked it. Hey, what do you know, she found her passion. How is that NOT consistent characterization? People keep complaining that they don't "get" Iris because they aren't given insight into her. Well, hell, here's some right here.  She went from point A to point B in a well thought out manner and folks just skip over it and act like it doesn't exist. This is an example of show, not tell and folks still missed it, apparently. 

 

Agreed. We've seen Iris enjoy investigating and blogging. Interests aren't set in stone... 

 

 

Also writing a blog doesn't mean you start admiring random journalists. I mean how much can you admire someone if you can't keep track of whether he won 1 or 2 major writing prizes?Iris has been shown as consistently slack about research which means she's a terrible journalist, she doesn't know how many prizes her mentor won and she didn't even want to do any research on science stuff because she had a convenient person to do the hard work for her.

 

It could be someone she admired a while back. It's not that unusual that she'd forget a detail. If anything the forgetting part shows that she wasn't die hard about this idol. It's not like she investigated him and couldn't keep up, if she had wikipedia would've had her covered. And when has she been slack about research? Piecing together reports about meta-humans requires a lot of it.

 

Edited January 28, 2015 by driedfruit

[wayne67]

Agreed. We've seen Iris enjoy investigating and blogging. Interests aren't set in stone... 

 

 

It could be someone she admired a while back. It's not that unusual that she'd forget a detail. If anything the forgetting part shows that she wasn't die hard about this idol. It's not like she investigated him and couldn't keep up, if she had wikipedia would've had her covered. And when has she been slack about research? Piecing together reports about meta-humans requires a lot of it.

 

 

I don't remember a single time she investigated anything. I remember her mentioning to Caitlin that she would ask the people who spotted fire guy for further details.

 

Admired a while back ? She complained about having to do journalism on a science subject in episode 2 which as far as I can gather in show time has been a few months if that. Which means that the time line for her interest in the guy is probably a month old and winning a Pulitzer or 2 should have some impact on her memory if she admires him as much as she claimed.

 

We don't actually know she did that much reporting on metahumans, we heard a voice over featuring a couple of sentences on the Flash and have no idea how much or how little information she gathered on metahumans. Judging solely on the fact that Caitlin had to ask if there was any more information about Fire Guy I'm guessing she didn't include useful data like time date and place in her blog otherwise Caitlin could have just used her upgraded computer network to find him herself. Then again none of these characters do logical things so who knows what the implications are supposed to be.

 

Cisco is supposed to be a genius on the same level as Hartley according to Wells and yet he still bumbles into a booby trap and fails to secure a dangerous prototype ice weapon. I'm not sure how dangerous Pied Piper would be without technology.

It is annoying but I like that Barry is still learning and making stupid mistakes and is not a insta amazing super hero. Now he has to learn from his mistakes to make this work. I hope that what they are leading up too. 

 

It's been several months now hasn't it and Barry is still making the same mistakes which is rushing headlong into battle overconfident even with a team of super scientists helping him to understand his limitations and after getting his ass handed to him by a non powered Arrow who shoots arrows of all things... Not fancy super weapons, arrows. I'd appreciate if Barry found some humility to go with his incompetence, it'd make him so much more likeable.

[driedfruit]

I don't remember a single time she investigated anything. I remember her mentioning to Caitlin that she would ask the people who spotted fire guy for further details.

 

You contradict the first part of your statement with the second part. If Iris wasn't investigating how would she know about the fire guy or who to contact to learn more about him? We don't see her spending hours researching online for the same reason we don't see Barry taking dumps. It's not riveting tv nor is it necessary.

 

Your main grip with this arc seems to be that Iris isn't a good journalist in the traditional sense. And, you're right, she isn't. The show doesn't ever pretend otherwise. Iris is just a lucky kid who landed a great job under special circumstance--which is generally how most plots start. But she's also a lucky kid who personally understands how important informing the public about the truths of their world--not to say that her motives revolve around Barry, but his history is part of her history. Her character arc is about going from curious, dedicated blogger to curious, dedicated journalist...and I don't any reason why she can't progress in this direction with her top notch oppertunities including a capable mentor.

 

 

Admired a while back ? She complained about having to do journalism on a science subject in episode 2 which as far as I can gather in show time has been a few months if that. Which means that the time line for her interest in the guy is probably a month old and winning a Pulitzer or 2 should have some impact on her memory if she admires him as much as she claimed.

 

This is just an odd complaint. There are many people I idolize (scientists, directors, writers...) in fields I have no intent of pursuing. And appreciating someone's work doesn't mean I can recite their awards. Iris' admiration of a famous journalist before she had any intention of joining the field wouldn't be the most unbelievable thing on this show.

Edited January 29, 2015 by driedfruit

[wayne67]

You contradict the first part of your statement with the second part. If Iris wasn't investigating how would she know about the fire guy or who to contact to learn more about him? We don't see her spending hours researching online for the same reason we don't see Barry taking dumps. It's not riveting tv nor is it necessary.

 

Your main grip with this arc seems to be that Iris isn't a good journalist in the traditional sense. And, you're right, she isn't. The show doesn't ever pretend otherwise. Iris is just a lucky kid who landed a great job under special circumstance--which is generally how most plots start. But she's also a lucky kid who personally understands how important informing the public about the truths of their world--not to say that her motives revolve around Barry, but his history is part of her history. Her character arc is about going from curious, dedicated blogger to curious, dedicated journalist...and I don't any reason why she can't progress in this direction with her top notch oppertunities including a capable mentor.

 

This is just an odd complaint. There are many people I idolize (scientists, directors, writers...) in fields I have no intent of pursuing. And appreciating someone's work doesn't mean I can recite their awards. Iris' admiration of a famous journalist before she had any intention of joining the field wouldn't be the most unbelievable thing on this show.

 

 

My problem isn't that she's lucky. Barry is lucky he got super powers. She's lucky to have landed a job with a presumably major newspaper with very little concerted effort. My problem is that she apparently had some burning desire to be a journalist sometime between finding journalism dull in episode 2 and now in episode 11 she's admiring a journalist for something and Barry is propping her journalism skills of which she has no actual journalism skills that he is even aware of. She's apparently been blogging about The Flash for months with no interest in discovering who he is.

I think you misunderstand my use of the word investigate... Investigate as far as I'm concerned is going out to a place something happened and getting statements from witnesses, corroborating those statements with video evidence and reporting the details. As far as I'm aware she has a open blog that people comment on and she reblogs that information without much investigation. The version of investigating she seems to engage is more the type of emailing someone for information and assuming it's correct without corroboration which is fine if you're blogging but isn't the same as investigation.

 

It's the difference between googling something on the internet and randomly regurgitating 'facts' and going out to the library and finding several books from people with actual background in that field whose conclusions at least have the air of authority about them.

 

I'd imagine you idolise/admire people for an easily stateable reason. You at least know their achievements. Did Iris have a reason for admiring that guy ?

If I say I admire Nikola Tesla I'd give a reason like he made a great tv vampire and he has been a figure of pop culture for energy weapons. Half of that is fictional but at least I know something about the guy.

 

Iris works under the guy and could have googled him faster than I managed to finish this response. Knowing someone's achievements is a basic way of endearing yourself to someone. As far as that guy is concerned she has no experience with journalism and the only reason she had Wells talk to her was because of a second hand connection through Barry. 

 

And Barry taking a super dump could be hilarious. They had a mountain of discarded burger wrapping showing the energy input necessary to keep him functional. I'm wondering how he takes off the suit while he's in a hurry. Does it have a zip ?

Edited January 29, 2015 by wayne67

[driedfruit]

My problem is that she apparently had some burning desire to be a journalist sometime between finding journalism dull in episode 2 and now in episode 11 she's admiring a journalist for something and Barry is propping her journalism skills of which she has no actual journalism skills that he is even aware of. She's apparently been blogging about The Flash for months with no interest in discovering who he is.

 

I think you misunderstand my use of the word investigate... Investigate as far as I'm concerned is going out to a place something happened and getting statements from witnesses, corroborating those statements with video evidence and reporting the details. As far as I'm aware she has a open blog that people comment on and she reblogs that information without much investigation. The version of investigating she seems to engage is more the type of emailing someone for information and assuming it's correct without corroboration which is fine if you're blogging but isn't the same as investigation.

 

It's the difference between googling something on the internet and randomly regurgitating 'facts' and going out to the library and finding several books from people with actual background in that field whose conclusions at least have the air of authority about them.

 

Five months have passed between episode 2 to 11 and in that time we've seen Iris' attitude about journalism change. She's not doing old school investigation, but she is researching and prodding people into giving her information (giving her accounts of their sightings, sending her videos/images..). I'd imagine if she gathers large amounts of data from highly variable sources, she can piece together a somewhat accurate picture of things. We have even seen her go to a crime site to verify Flash's existence before he ever approached her. Sure, her journalistic skills are poor, like any beginner's at anything. But the point is, that level of dedication to anything shows her change of heart. And how do you think passions start?

 

And what's wrong with her not wanting to know who Flash is? I'd assume all journalists draw a limit to their nosiness somewhere. 

 

Also what was Barry supposed to say? "Oh, Iris you suck. You really shouldn't have this job. Lucky thing I'm obsessed with you..." He said he is good at being Iris' best bud, and he just proved that this episode. ;)

 

I'd imagine you idolise/admire people for an easily stateable reason. You at least know their achievements. Did Iris have a reason for admiring that guy ?

 

There are directors I admire because of how much I love their movies and while I know that they're generally acclaimed, I have no idea what awards they've won or how many. And I don't really care to know. Perhaps Iris admires Mason because of his actual work and not for the acclaim.

 

Iris works under the guy and could have googled him faster than I managed to finish this response. Knowing someone's achievements is a basic way of endearing yourself to someone. As far as that guy is concerned she has no experience with journalism and the only reason she had Wells talk to her was because of a second hand connection through Barry.

 

Fair point about googling. But having an in with Wells is as good as having an in with Flash, and journalist guy might want to take advantage at that.

 

I'm wondering how he takes off the suit while he's in a hurry. Does it have a zip ?

 

Maybe the magic-material is super stretchy and he just wiggles out of the head hole. Once he gets his shoulders through it can't be that hard. 

[Oscirus]

As for sending Cold and HW to regular prison while locking up Piper in their own little secret Guantanamo, the difference is without their weapons Snart and his buddy are just guys. Rathaway is a genius who could probably MacGyver his way out of prison after five minutes in the rec room

 

Aside from the fact that Cold's already out of prison, that theory doesn't work because the show already established that the lab prison was for meta humans who couldn't be held in a regular jail cell due to their powers. The only reason why they'd put Piper in the lab jail twice is because lol plot convenience.  I wonder why the police aren't worried about the Flash kidnapping people off the street right in front of them.

 

Even if  for some reason that they were giving IQ tests to determine who gets the privilege to sit in those cell, we have the new problem that somehow  Pied Piper's whole plan relied not only on  piper correctly guessing  the location lab prison and figuring out it's weaknesses ,but, also on Flash doing something that he's never done before and taking this dude to said prison.  Good thing Barry had a script in his hand or Piper's plan would've been ruined.

 

My increasing problem with this show  is that it's  seriously starting to turn into special effects porn. The writers can't even maintain consistency  from one show to the next because they have to absolutely have to get to the next really cool scene.

 

As for the Iris journalism thing, I'll just fanwank it as Iris growing up wanting to be both a cop and a reporter. Does it bother anybody else that overprotective Joe who once yelled at his daughter for standing on a sidewalk is seemingly unperturbed by her having a dangerous reporter job?

[TyranAmiros]

I thought this week's villain had serious potential. The chess metaphor was a bit overused, but it wasn't a huge leap for me to take to assume that those trained or employed by Wells would probably behave predictably. We all are influenced by those who train us, be they family, teachers, or role models.

Is it wrong that I was kind of hoping that Wells' "big secret" was going to be that he had an affair with Rathaway, or even that he was gay all along? That would have been a fun bombshell, and the actors kind of seemed to be playing their interactions kind of flirty.

I get that the opening voice over is inspired by Arrow, but I wish they'd drop it. I don't think they need it. At least I'm still enjoying the show, unlike Arrow this season.

[CooperTV]

Is it wrong that I was kind of hoping that Wells' "big secret" was going to be that he had an affair with Rathaway, or even that he was gay all along? That would have been a fun bombshell, and the actors kind of seemed to be playing their interactions kind of flirty.

 

Wells could be bi, I guess, because he had a wife who died in the car accident. Oh well, we don't know what the relationship with his wife was actually like.

[Xantar]

I think you misunderstand my use of the word investigate... Investigate as far as I'm concerned is going out to a place something happened and getting statements from witnesses, corroborating those statements with video evidence and reporting the details. As far as I'm aware she has a open blog that people comment on and she reblogs that information without much investigation. The version of investigating she seems to engage is more the type of emailing someone for information and assuming it's correct without corroboration which is fine if you're blogging but isn't the same as investigation.

 

It's the difference between googling something on the internet and randomly regurgitating 'facts' and going out to the library and finding several books from people with actual background in that field whose conclusions at least have the air of authority about them.

 

But again, nobody is pretending Iris is good at those traditional journalism skills or that she even understands that they are necessary to be a a good journalist. And it's pretty clear she was not hired at the newspaper because anybody thought she would be good at investigation. She in fact seems to be a little naive about what being a journalist really is (which her mentor has picked up on), and her editor only seems to care if she can bring in stories about the Flash. Sure, Barry may have said she's going to be a great journalist, but what the hell does he know?

 

And again, have you seen who they're allowing to write for real newspapers these days? 

[FrancesL]

I thought this was a good episode. More Cisco is a aways a good thing and one can never have enough scenes between Joe and Barry.  The Pied Piper was definitely smarter than the typical villain and I liked the way that he was ultimately defeated.  I hope there's  a real purpose to his not revealing Well's darkest secret, otherwise it just ends up being an annoying plot device. 

 

I think they did a terrific job with casting the actor who plays Mason (it took me a while to figure out where I had seen him before!).If the writers devoted enough attention to the relationship between Iris and Mason, that pair could turn out to be a real gem.  The contrast between Iris and Mason reminds me a lot of the contrast between Barry and Oliver.. Even if the story is a bit of a cliche  (Young, enthusiastic, inexperienced rookie gets paired with her idol who turns out to be cynical and jaded), it's one that tends to work,  Plus, Iris getting a storyline outside of her various love interests is way overdue! Her introduction to the newsroom was tough, but I liked her response to Wells at the press conference.  I'm not sure why Wells singled out Iris (I'm of the belief that Wells always has an ulterior motive!) It may have been an attempt to get Iris in his corner (which could be related to their future interactions) or it could have been because he didn't want to answer Mason's question and thought that he would get an easier question from an inexperienced journalist. However, instead of playing into his attempt at favoritism, Iris backed her colleague and forced Wells to answer Mason's question. I thought that was a good start. I agree that the writers seem to have a problem figuring out what she does and sticking with it, but if this new journalism job ends up adding more dimension to her character, then I'll forgive all the inconsistencies. 

[TyranAmiros]

Wells could be bi, I guess, because he had a wife who died in the car accident. Oh well, we don't know what the relationship with his wife was actually like.

We don't know what it was like, but he certainly seems to use it as an excuse. It would be interesting if she knew as well, but the whole marriage was more crafted than real, the way political or top executive marriages can be in the real world. And he certainly wouldn't be the first person in that position to do what is societally expected while maintaining a double life.

If Rathaway's motives weren't personal, I'm not sure I understand them--were we meant to?

[Trini]

I liked that Rathaway and Wells were really similar. Superficially, they are both geniuses who wear glasses (good choice show!), but also that they are generally 3 steps ahead of everyone and use others (pawns) for they own goals. I hope they make Pied Piper recurring, Mientus is one of the best guest stars the show has had.

[Xander]

I know lots of people think that Wells and Rathaway might have had a sexual relationship but I think Wells just took advantage of his need for a father figure after his parents disowned him when he came out. 

[Unusual Suspect]

^ That's my read too.

 

 

I was really impressed with Andy Mientus. Makes me wish I'd watched Smash.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Makes me wish I'd watched Smash.

Mwahahahaha! Thanks for giving me a much needed laugh! Be glad that you saved yourself the time, disappointment, and frustration of watching Smash.

Edited January 30, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[AD35]

I know lots of people think that Wells and Rathaway might have had a sexual relationship but I think Wells just took advantage of his need for a father figure after his parents disowned him when he came out. 

 

That's the major thing I liked about this ep, Cavanaugh and Mientus played it like either scenario could be plausible.  Rathaway's reaction to Cisco's first appearance could be either he felt he was being replaced as a protoge to Wells or potential rival for Wells affection. Wells's comment "....that you're still my guy" certainly adds fuel that argument. And on the other hand it could all be in Rathaway's mind about him and Wells being more than just work colleagues. Given what we've seen of Wells so far, it wouldn't be out of character for him to take advantage of Rathaway after he got disowned by his parents.

[CooperTV]

I think the on-screen tension between Wells and Rathaway was deliberately placed there. Wells would absolutely take advantage of Hartley's feelings for him to manipulate him

Edited January 31, 2015 by CooperTV

[MarkHB]

Please don't have iris start talking about how she has gumption. Or spunk. Even in response to proovcation, I groaned at that line.

 

I was waiting for this:

 

And as awful as he was, the flash back showed he was doing the right thing, the accelerator wasn't stable and because he started making noise about it, Well's flushed him.   Though I also think Well's was right in that Hartley lacked a certain humanity that Cisco has in spades.   As raw a deal as he got, he's definitely developed a lack of concern for human life since he wasn't just using the people on the bridge as bait, he was trying to kill them.

 

Was Hartley's parents the people that got off the plane last week with the painting that Captain Cold and "Mick" went after.   There Butler said Mr. Hartley your son has been trying to reach you and Mr. Hartley said "We know longer have a son."   Interesting.

(Emphasis added.)  I am increasingly convinced that the instability was the whole point.  IMO, Wells was never trying to conduct science experiments; he was deliberately setting out to create the Flash.  And yes, those were Hartley's parents on the plane last  week.

 

Pied Piper's nickname made no sense. Come on Cisco, you are better than that. I do love that this show is making fun of DC's stupid names for some of their characters. I also like that Barry does struggle a bit and his team is able to help him out like a real team. Canon changes like that make sense for a tv show. The best part of shows is the interactions between the characters. I'm glad they are utilizing all the characters and having them actually talk and hang out together.

I don't think this show is making fun of the villain nicknames so much as it is embracing them, tbh.

 

I was expecting it to be revealed Wells and Hartley had a fling.  That was totally a slashy subtext in the convo after the Cisco introduction.  Then I was expecting him to reveal he knew Wells could walk.  

 

With the campy plots, 2 gay characters and 3 gay actors, this show is totally the Bewitched of superhero shows (not that that's a bad thing).  

I totally didn't feel that subtext at all, but who are the other gay actors besides Mientus?

 

I thought it was kind of weak.  For all the comments about this being brighter than Arrow, I just don't think it's holding up.  Arrow is much more compelling and dramatic.  This show is comic-booky and very clichéd. 

 

Tonight's clichés...

 

1.  Veteran newspaper writer doesn't like new upstart.

2.  Cisco again running before thinking.  Where was he going after the Piper escaped?

3.  Piper escapes.  It's getting to be an easy place to escape.

4.  Barry being dumb about Wells after he's already shown be to be dishonest.

 

This show is reminding more of the old Batman show more than Arrow and is becoming very formulaic. 

 

I'm still watching, but I hope they will write some better plots. 

 

The differences are wholly intentional.  I recently saw an interview with the creators who said in so many words that Arrow was created as more soap opera and they approach it with "what bad things can we do to them this week?"  Flash is intentionally not just brighter but taking itself less seriously.  Is it working?  Well, I just started watching Arrow after having blown it off for 2 1/2 years due to DVR constraints, and I don't know if I'll bother finding it on OnDemand when Survivor returns and those constraints come back.  But I'm loving the Flash precisely because it's comic book heaven.

[coppersin]

I get that the opening voice over is inspired by Arrow, but I wish they'd drop it. I don't think they need it. At least I'm still enjoying the show, unlike Arrow this season.

 

I agree it's unnecessary. I expected them to drop it after winter hiatus because 1) it doesn't really add anything, 2) the audience knows who Barry is by now or can catch on easily enough and 3) he isn't the fastest man alive anymore/yet, we have Reverse Flash for that.

 

You'd think CW would want to use that 30 seconds for an extra commercial.

Edited February 1, 2015 by coppersin

[KirkB]

I think the real reason they're keeping Rathaway instead of sending him to prison is twofold. One, because he knows their secrets. He may not know the identity of the Flash but he knows for a fact that Cisco, Caitlin and Wells are working with him, where they are based, and pretty much how to get around their defenses. That would make him extremely dangerous around other criminals, where he could trade information for favors/safety/etc. Also, on a more meta level, they need to keep him around so he and Cisco/Caitlin/Wells can talk to forward the plot.

[phoenics]

I agree it's unnecessary. I expected them to drop it after winter hiatus because 1) it doesn't really add anything, 2) the audience knows who Barry is by now or can catch on easily enough and 3) he isn't the fastest man alive anymore/yet, we have Reverse Flash for that.

 

You'd think CW would want to use that 30 seconds for an extra commercial.

Awww - I like the voiceover part... *ducks for cover*

[MarkHB]

I'm fine with the voiceover; if they aren't going to add 30 more seconds of show I'd rather have that than another ad.

[Princess Sparkle]

I totally didn't feel that subtext at all, but who are the other gay actors besides Mientus?

.

The other two are Wentworth Miller, and the soon-to-be guest star Victor Garber.

I do agree with the interpretation someone mentioned up thread that Wells played on a fatherly relationship with Rathaway, but that it was ambiguous enough to make Rathaway think there was a romantic hope.

Most have already covered in the thread the pieces I liked about the episode, but one small thing I liked is that not only are we shown that Joe is a good detective, but that Eddie is a good one as well. It'd be easy to make him a dummy so that he'd be continually at least one step behind The Flash team, but I like that he's actually good at his job.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Princess Sparkle

[Oscirus]

think the real reason they're keeping Rathaway instead of sending him to prison is twofold. One, because he knows their secrets. He may not know the identity of the Flash but he knows for a fact that Cisco, Caitlin and Wells are working with him, where they are based, and pretty much how to get around their defenses. That would make him extremely dangerous around other criminals, where he could trade information for favors/safety/etc. Also, on a more meta level, they need to keep him around so he and Cisco/Caitlin/Wells can talk to forward the plot.

 

Well yea, I get the second reason  in terms of needing him to be there for plot contrivances. But as to the first reason, ignoring the fact that they're likely about to set Piper free anyway, they're now imprisoning regular people in a an unethical meta prison for no reason other then to stop them from maybe disseminating information to other prisoners who can't do anything with said information anyway? And these are supposed to be the good guys?

 

Not even Arrow does stuff like that.

[Vapor]

I don't think the problem is with Hartley giving information to prisoners. It's Hartley giving information to everyone else. Like the authorities. The police. The military. The government. Anyone and everyone who could walk right into the lab, confiscate their equipment, seize Harrison's assets, seek out the Flash, ruin the lives of his team, and just generally destroy everything they've been building together with respect to fighting the baddies most people are ill-equipped to deal with.

 

Also, Harrison's evil shadiness.

[Glade]

I watched this episode for Andy Mientus, and I do tend to prefer the villains in these shows as opposed to the pompous, self-righteous hypocrisy of the protagonists.  People who were really planning on imprisoning a human in solitary confinement with no bathroom or bed for the rest of his life because he went after justified revenge against their stupid asses while they work to prop up a corrupt social system that makes criminals out of the poor (but oooh, if there were just people with super powers, then poor people wouldn't be able to steal food anymore!).