S05.E04: Episode Four

[moonb]

I hope we're not supposed to think of Tony's scene with Mary as romantic - all I could think was red flags, everywhere, when he refused to accept her breaking it off. Though I guess it could be read as "persistence."

 

All Isobel and Violet's scenes together were gorgeous.

[CleoCaesar]

I'd love it if Bunting met a grisly end and all of Downton was like, "Meh whatev". I hate her more than any other character on this soap, even Thomas. I thoroughly cheered Robert yelling at this rude cow. Was she raised in a barn? At least the aristocracy she so loathes (despite coming over to Downton all the fucking time) has manners. She seems to enjoy being a bitch and provoking people. Somebody push her under a moving carriage or something.

 

My opinion of Blake - another tiresome "revolutionary" type last season - has improved, along with his haircut. He looks charming and presentable, and actually like he enjoys Mary's company. Gillingham, to the left, to the left.

 

Oh lord are we still talking about that war memorial? MOVE ON. Revisiting the same already-boring storyline for 4 consecutive weeks is shitty storytelling.

[KR Vermont]

I wish Tom would state that HE isn't the one inviting Miss B(itch) to Downton, it's ladies sticking their noses into his non-existent love life trying to start something. How much does he truly fancy her, she's such an abrasive instigator that I can't see him being attracted to that dissing attitude. He can do so much better. I like Tom and he's getting pulled in different directions, but not as much as...Edith! and Moseley!!

 

I hope Edith saying that all her writings lately deal with the changing times is foreshadowing that she's going to take Marigold and move to London or somewhere where she can get on with her life and stop all this moping and getting shat on by family--what's the allure for her to stay at Downton where she doesn't fit in?? She's shown she can get around the big city on her own and hold a gig as a writer, so why ramble around her small town pining away for her child (in between all this writing she's apparently continued doing all this time). Obviously this charade can't go on indefinitely, so just get on with it already and take the consequences.

 

Has it crossed Robert's mind that Miss Bunting is inculcating the village 'serf' children to her views? Egads!

 

What are Blake and Gillingham up to now? That triangle is sooo overdone, considering how much time has supposedly passed.

[Eegah]

And once again Bunting is back to being Fellowes' strawman for his hatred of the working class, who just won't accept that those blameless, holy creatures known as the aristocracy only want a world full of puppies and rainbows. Kiss the fattest part of my ass, Julian, and I hope your outraged gasp at that made you drop your monocle.

[Straycat80]

I wish they would drop the Green death mystery. Who cares anymore? Drop it!

Say Yes Isobel!

Those were some big, seriously scary syringes. What is going on with Barrow?

Why do they keep inviting Miss Buttinsky Bunting to dinner? You can tell by the sick look on Tom's face whenever someone suggests he invite her that he doesn't want to. I Hope after Lord Grantham's melt down that that's the last we'll see her around DA.

[avecsans]

Sometimes I just can't with this show. So, a valet's somewhat suspicious death would merit 24-hour surveillance and a tail on another servant who had a perfectly legitimate reason to be there in the first place? I highly doubt it.

Also, is Sarah Bunting such a miracle worker that daisy goes from timid kitchen servant to eloquent feminist while also learning how to add in 2 weeks?

The Russian story is a bore, but Isobel must marry Lord Merton. They are adorable together.

I no longer call Lord Grantham Robert. He will always be Donk to me. I actually loved his smack down of the Bunting troll and Cora really must stop inviting her for dinner.

The clothes at the fashion show were so beautiful.

[CleoCaesar]

Fellowes' strawman for his hatred of the working class, who just won't accept that those blameless, holy creatures known as the aristocracy only want a world full of puppies and rainbows.

 

I think the "poor" characters have so many sympathetic figures among them on the show - Anna, Mrs. Hughes, Carson, Mrs. Patmore, Daisy, Bates, Tom (when he was Branson), etc. etc. - that I can't see a "evil poors vs. blameless rich" dichotomy. I think it's refreshing that the rich AREN'T portrayed as heartless evil slavedrivers for a change.

[DietCokeJunkie]

 

She needs a date with the "Bus of Justice" in the worst way.

Love this, Popples!  I would really like to see the "Bus of Justice" make a stop for Miss Bunting. 

[izabella]

Why do they keep inviting Miss Buttinsky Bunting to dinner? You can tell by the sick look on Tom's face whenever someone suggests he invite her that he doesn't want to.

 

He could just tell them he'd rather not invite her.  i don't know why he never says anything if he really doesn't want Bunting around.

[jschoolgirl]

I think Tony's outburst showed that perhaps he could have the stuff to have killed Green. Not that I care who did.

Anvils seemed to drop for Rose and Tom. Sybil was so popular and set such a high bar, and then had such a tragic death that Our Lord Creator had to give us Edna and then That Bunting Cow so that we'd be glad so see whomever Tom finally ends up with. I hope that comes soon!

It's a good point above that if Isobel marries Lord Merton (yes, please!) that Crawley House will be available for Tom.

I don't see why Tom could not simply and politely say "No" to That Bunting Cow being invited. It occured to me that she might have some family backstory that leads to her hatred of toffs. I hope we don't see it.

[Lillybee]

If Isobel does marry Lord Merton, I doubt that his sons will be happy about it. I remember one of them spiking Tom's drink so that he appeared to be a drunk. If that was done to a family that lives in the area, I think that they could do much worse to a step-mother.

[mcjen]

Ravenya003  wrote:

Oh, one other thing I found amusing was the hilarious proficiency of the police. They're following up every miniscule lead! They're questioning people over a death that happened years ago! They've got a plainclothes policeman at Gillingham's house!

OMG, yes, this whole police investigation has been ridiculous.  

Let's see what they've come up with so far:  a couple of years ago a man stumbled off the pavement, was hit and killed by a bus.  No witnesses.  Except that, nearly two years after the fact, a witness comes forward to say they overheard the victim say "What are you doing here?" to someone else before he fell.  Wow - that IS damning evidence!  Enough for Scotland Yard to send out inquiries to every place the victim ever visited, to ask of everyone he ever met, if they knew of any problems he had with anyone.  Perfectly reasonable.  No one knows anything (at least, that's what they tell the constable), but oh, hey...someone at the victim's place of employment now recalls that he once complained  "wasn't treated well" when he stayed at Downton.  I'm surprised the entire Crawley family and all the staff weren't arrested on such ironclad evidence.

Luckily, the crime rate is slow enough in London that the police can afford to put a plain-clothes detective on permanent watch of Lord Gillingham's house.  Again, it just stands to reason they'd watch the house now, TWO YEARS AFTER THE EVENTS.  Something's bound to turn up, and  they are so close to solving this case now.  If only...if only someone would drop by the house one of these days, then take a walk along a busy street in Picadilly...that would totally cinch this case.  Because nothing whatever convinces a jury like someone revisiting the scene of a crime.  

Egad. This all makes me long so much for Law & Order.  I want Briscoe and Logan to come in and question the kitchen staff, who, in typical L&O fashion, would never pause in preparing a meal, even when being interviewed by the MURDER police! 

[HoodlumSheep]

I feel like nothing much happened this episode...

Can we call Ms. Bunting Robert's official arch-nemesis? I'm probably the only one who loves how much Robert loathes her! Sure he acts like a 5 yr-old, but I just find it so entertaining!

When is everyone going to figure out that Tom's just not romantically interested in Ms. Bunting? The faces he makes are hilarious. Sure, he might appreciate some of her forward-thinking views, but there is a time and a place for them. She was totally picking a fight with Robert, because he didn't sound against the teaching thing at all until she went and poked the bear.

Ooohhh Mr. Bricker (?) almost got caught!!!

Awe. the Prince asked Violet to run away with him! I want a prequel! Also, glad to have a few more tidbits about Violet's late husband.

Lord Merton is sweet, but don't want Isobel to marry him, I want her to end up with Dr. Clarkson!

Edith; stalking your own child is not going to help your situation. I am ashamed to say it, but I keep wanting to ship Edith with Farmer Drewe.

Oh Mary, do you really think Tony was just going to be A-okay with you pretty much dumping. Do I think Tony is kinda crazy and overly obsessed with Mary? Yes. Is he incredibly desperate in wanting to believe he and Mary are meant to be? Yes. But was I glad when he had enough of a backbone to call out Mary on her stunt she pulled with him? Yes, yes I was.

Just let Ms. Baxter help you Thomas!

Poor Mr. Moseley is being overwhelmed with all the first footman duties!

Why was Mr. blake at a fashion show?

[Amelie06]

All I could think during all of Thomas's scenes was (in Regina George's voice) "Now I guess he's on crack." Cute Jimmy has barely been gone and Thomas seems to have lost his damn mind.

 

Gillingham showed his true colors. The fact that his first instinct was to say, "I'm shocked that you're such a whore" says a lot about him.  That being said, if you swapped the genders would we be reading the situation the same? Mary basically just sampled the goods, knowing he felt more strongly about her. He made it clear that he wanted to marry her multiple times. She used him for sex.  He does seem to be on a creepy track.  The fuck week seems to have made him feel a certain amount of ownership over Mary.

 

Handsome other guy is clearly a better choice for Mary. The best thing about him is that he obviously likes her, but isn't throwing himself at her feet.

 

Bunting. There really isn't anything else to say.

 

Edith needs to just come out to her family. She is acting super crazy and pathetic right now. Would any of us be shocked if she suddenly jumped off a bridge. I can't believe that this Gregson story has been dragged out for so long! It just won't end. Can't Edith just go "A Very Long Engagement" on his ass and track him down in Germany? Go to him, Edith. Traveling around proto-Nazi Germany has to be better than getting shaded on a daily basis by Marcia (I mean Mary) and forced to see her daughter call another woman Mom.

 

Daisy's trajectory is a little hard to swallow, but I'll allow it.

 

My new theory on Rose? She isn't high all the time. Instead, English isn't her first language and she can't understand most of what people say to her. She smiles blankly all the time because she is trying to translate what people are saying without letting on.

 

Law & Order: Special Valet Unit is boring me stupid. No one cares. You can't build a half-assed murder mystery around a victim no one cares about. I hope Anna is the one who did killed the bastard. It would finally give her some agency. Murderous, murderous agency. And then Bates could confess that he actually did kill his wife. That would actually make me interested and invested in their story again.

[helenamonster]

"You only say that to sound clever." "I know, you should try it." Never change, Violet.

 

Aw, I know there was no place to fit it in, but I was kind of hoping for a little mention of the soap-related adventures O'Brien's been having in India. Were my mom and I hallucinating, or was Shrimpy played by a different actor? Either way, his scene with Rose was very sweet. I'm still surprised at how much she's grown on me.

 

Y'all, Anna did it. I've been convinced since last season ended and I'm still convinced now. But if she didn't do it, I'm afraid that things still aren't going to end well for her. I can see the rape somehow being dug up and the police suspecting it as a motive. Not looking forward to her having to face that kind of public scrutiny for a traumatic event that was in no way her fault. Not to mention that Chekhov's diaphragm is still lurking somewhere in Chez Bates. But it was nice to see Anna talking about Tom and Sarah at the end with Carson and Mrs. Hughes. Between that and her comforting Thomas a couple episodes ago, it's been nice to see her outside of her own doom-and-gloom stories.

 

If Isobel doesn't marry Lord Merton, I will.

 

Poor Cora. Robert had his moments this episode (Edith, Mrs. Patmore, telling Sarah to go pound sand) but he's such a piece of shit to her.

 

While I was 100% Team Robert in his argument with Sarah, I wish he hadn't dragged Mrs. Patmore and Daisy up from the kitchens during their literal busiest time of the day where they are PREPARING THE FOOD THAT HE IS GOING TO EAT in order to prove his point. And while Sarah is such a piece of work, I can't totally hate her. Daisy is absolutely glowing with confidence and it's really nice to see.

 

I wish we'd seen more of Mabel Lane Fox. I think one of the problems with Mary is that she's never presented with a worthy opponent. Sure, she's had Edith on and off, but that girl can't not fight a losing battle. Mabel seems like a good adversary for Mary. Also, the actress looked familiar. The fashion show was very pretty to watch, and it's nice to see Rosamund again. I knew she'd figure out the Edith/Drewe situation immediately. Hopefully she visits Downton next episode to smack her niece upside the head for being such a dumbdumb.

 

I wasn't expecting the memorial plot to expand beyond the first episode, but I'm wondering if its opening is going to be where all these various secrets somehow come out.

[Avaleigh]

When is everyone going to figure out that Tom's just not romantically interested in Ms. Bunting? The faces he makes are hilarious. Sure, he might appreciate some of her forward-thinking views, but there is a time and a place for them. She was totally picking a fight with Robert, because he didn't sound against the teaching thing at all until she went and poked the bear.

 

The best line Tom ever had about Sarah Bunting was in season 4 when she asks him if he's been avoiding her and he says "I haven't been avoiding you, I've just been busy these past few months." 

 

Awe. the Prince asked Violet to run away with him! I want a prequel! Also, glad to have a few more tidbits about Violet's late husband.

 

 

I would actually like to see some sort of Downton prequel one day. 

 

Were my mom and I hallucinating, or was Shrimpy played by a different actor?

 

 

It's the same actor. He had facial hair last time we saw him on the show though.

 

Gillingham showed his true colors. The fact that his first instinct was to say, "I'm shocked that you're such a whore" says a lot about him.  That being said, if you swapped the genders would we be reading the situation the same? Mary basically just sampled the goods, knowing he felt more strongly about her. He made it clear that he wanted to marry her multiple times. She used him for sex.  He does seem to be on a creepy track.  The fuck week seems to have made him feel a certain amount of ownership over Mary.

 

 

I admit, I hadn't thought about it this way before. I still don't think Mary did anything wrong but I feel like I have a better understanding of where Gillingham is coming from than I did previously.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Avaleigh

[HunterHunted]

This show is struggling under the weight of its own ridiculousness. Why is there a 24 hour plain clothes police officer staking out Tony Gillingham's place? Is Tony secretly a prince? A duke? Was the valet a spy for the crown?

While Edith, between her busy stalking and moping schedule, is able to put out a successful magazine (or was it a paper) of which she is the owner and editor.

Meanwhile Miss Bunting decides to be the most superior cow in existence and insult her hosts AGAIN at dinner and involve the servants in her class warfare carnival side show.

And Mary delusionaly thinks that she can dump a dude in public who she's fucked so he won't make a scene. Ha! Tony could have yelled Lady Mary Crawley will have sex with a man who isn't her husband and Mary's rep would have been annihilated. Not Pamuk ruined, but nuked. It's like Mary thought she was 100 years in the future.

Edited January 26, 2015 by HunterHunted

[KR Vermont]

I'm not feeling a Tom-Rose coupling like some of you, she seems immature or inexperienced compared to where he's at in life.

 

I've long thought the village doctor fancied Isobel, and now Lord Merton made a move...

 

Baxter totally flipped to Barrow's side and gave Moseley the cold shoulder, and I don't know why. I couldn't see what Barrow's magazine ad said, it looked like "cheese" so it likewise made no sense to me.

 

What is with Greene's death investigation after all this time, what a boring drag.

 

I keep watching this show despite it not fleshing out characters and storylines, JF leaves it to viewers to fill in too much for themselves and along with quick scene changes it can get confusing.

[mcjen]

Yes, I too thought the ad read "Cheese!" but it turns out, on closer viewing, it said "Choose your own Path".  But the notion of a Cheese Cure still delights!

[magdalene]

Miss Bunting is such an obvious example of the writing on this show being as subtle as a sledgehammer.

 

If Gillingham was a modern character and this a contemporary show the next step would be outright stalking and a restraining order. Calling Mary a whore - what a classy guy.

[CleoCaesar]

Let's see what they've come up with so far:  a couple of years ago a man stumbled off the pavement, was hit and killed by a bus.  No witnesses.  Except that, nearly two years after the fact, a witness comes forward to say they overheard the victim say "What are you doing here?" to someone else before he fell.  Wow - that IS damning evidence!  Enough for Scotland Yard to send out inquiries to every place the victim ever visited, to ask of everyone he ever met, if they knew of any problems he had with anyone.  Perfectly reasonable.  No one knows anything (at least, that's what they tell the constable), but oh, hey...someone at the victim's place of employment now recalls that he once complained  "wasn't treated well" when he stayed at Downton.  I'm surprised the entire Crawley family and all the staff weren't arrested on such ironclad evidence.

 

This is so spot-on. This has been one of the most poorly executed time jumps on any TV show I can remember. Edith wasn't even showing when we left off last season and now Marigold is 2+ years old. And SOMEHOW Tony and Blake haven't wavered in their affections for Frosty McDisinterested and remained in their tepid love triangle. SOMEHOW Tom and Douchebaguette Bunting remained suspended in their not-really-a-friendship. SOMEHOW Thomas spent two years torturing Baxter but not doing a damn thing about it. And SOMEHOW the inane Who Killed Greene (As If We Care) mystery is still on everyone's minds, including Scotland Yard. Time doesn't work that way, people. It's like certain plotlines continued organically (e.g. Marigold grew up) but the others were frozen in time and the 2+ years never happened. The mystery of Greene would have been long forgotten by now.

 

Law & Order: Special Valet Unit

 

I love this board.

[Pop Tart]

Yes, I too thought the ad read "Cheese!" but it turns out, on closer viewing, it said "Choose your own Path". But the notion of a Cheese Cure still delights!

.

I think Thomas is attempting some kind of "stop the gay" program. Not sure what the drugs are, but perhaps some quackery that will help him not be gay any more.

I agree with others on how stupid the murder investigation is, in that there's absolutely no way there'd even be an investigation at this point absent saying they saw it happen. But what's been bugging even more is the fact that Anna keeps skulking around making Bates and herself look 100 times more guilty. She's acting so stupidly and I'd like her to be a bit smarter.

Mary wanting to marry again makes no sense to me. She never wanted to leave Downton. That was her entire storyline from the beginning. She was reluctantly willing to marry because it was expected of her, but she didn't want to. Matthew was the answer to her prayers in all ways. She got to marry the man she loved and stay at Downton. So unless she fell head over heels again, I don't believe she's be actively looking to marry.

[crocosmia]

I don't understand why certain family members keep pushing Tom to invite the Bunting to dinner.    She's ungracious and ugly inside and out.  

 

I actually liked Rose this episode.  And Isobel, whom I usually like, was kind of irritating.   I think Lord Merton offered a very sweet proposal, but I like Isobel with the doctor better.

 

Can't stand Cora's sappy little suitor.  He's way out of line.   

 

OOOO, Tony's pissed.  His dark side is showing.  

 

The setting in this show is always pretty, but tonight the scenery was especially beautiful.

 

I don't think Bates did it.

 

Edith should just get outta Dodge, with or without the kid.   I'm tired of that big black gloomy cloud that fills every scene she's in.

 

Daisy's suddenly educated and self-confident.  That was quick!    

 

What's up with Barrow?  That was quick, too!   And why is Baxter suddenly trying to be his confidant?

[psychoticstate]

God, Sarah Bunting is a total asshole. I actually get pissed off when any of the characters defend her. I don't care if she turns Daisy into the next Einstein - you aren't that rude to your host multiple times on multiple occasions unless you are a total asshole. I wish Tom would kick her ass to the curb and find someone else to inspire the rebel within. He (and we the viewers) deserve better.

 

I

 

YES.  I despise Bunting.  She's lucky she wasn't tossed out of Downton on her stupid ass after that performance.  I find it impossible to believe that a guest in 1924 would be that flat out rude and disrespectful to her hosts.  Heck, I have a hard time someone would be that rude today and then sit there with a smug look on her face.  When a viewer is firmly on Donk's side, something is wrong. 

 

I generally like Edith but enough with the sad sack behavior.  Is Edith so dense that she would stalk the Drewes and then go back to their home after she's been asked not to?  I suppose it's possible since apparently everyone at Downton is dense enough to not connect the dots with Marigold.  Please, JF, get Edith back into her writing.  She certainly would have quite an interesting story for the times about having a child out of wedlock. 

 

Lord Merton's proposal was so sweet.  I haven't cared for him previously but I think Isobel should accept. 

 

I bow to other posters here with regard to Thomas' issue.  I never thought about aversion therapy.  I assumed he had somehow gotten hopped up on heroin, especially when he took the spoon and we saw the syringes. 

 

I too loved the fashion show  - - such beautiful clothing.

[Diane M]

Does Tom have a heroin addiction?

You mean Thomas?  No, just trying turn himself straight.  Poor man, it won't work.

 

Lord Merton is sweet, but don't want Isobel to marry him, I want her to end up with Dr. Clarkson! 

 

Me too.  They have so much in common and no complications like Lord Merton's sons.

[DHDancer]

Law & Order: Special Valet Unit ...

 

Thank you thank you for this!  

[Llywela]

What's up with Barrow?  That was quick, too!   And why is Baxter suddenly trying to be his confidant?

Because she can see that something is wrong, and is a good person and feels sorry for him. She's known him since they were kids. And perhaps she feels that as others have been good to her after her past crimes, she should do the same for Thomas after his past crimes.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Llywela

[stopeslite]

What is the position of an earl in relation to the villagers? Could Donk get Bunting fired? Does she know this?

[mbutterfly]

My thoughts exactly! I don't even remember the last time he actually sought her out or even had a conversation with her that wasn't centred around her boorish behaviour from a previous dinner at Downton. They really don't have any kind of relationship at all. They don't even seem like friends.

 

Tony definitely upped the creep factor this episode. I was a little taken aback by how quickly he went from whiny to aggressive, and I think Mary was shocked too. I've never understood the concept of not letting someone break up with you, and I'm worried that he'll become stalkerish or something.

 

I may be misremembering, but it seems like the family is already putting way more effort into finding the lost princess Kuragin than they did in tracking down Gregson, which makes me feel even worse for Edith. Between that, Grantham's "I told you they would get annoyed with you!", possible news of Gregson's fate, and the Drewe family pulling away from her, it's amazing that she hasn't had a complete meltdown yet.

 

I like the dress show. Some of those outfits were gorgeous!

Wasn't that the most gorgeous era for clothing?

[mbutterfly]

 

Bates: Based on the scene in the bedroom, I don't think Bates killed Green. Fellowes isn't subtle, and that read to me as Anna saying everything with subtext about Green, and Bates having nothing to hide and taking the conversation on face value. In the past I really really couldn't take Bates. Not angry Bates, not martyr Bates. I DID enjoy the Bates who pitched in and saved Thomas's job, who got Lord Grantham up to speed on what happened with Jimmy, and with O'Brian's machinations. This is not because he was being "nice", but because the material had a bit of natural humor in it, and required that Bates behave in a reasonable and intelligent manner. I found that when he's written this way, the actor is actually enjoyable. He's just not good/appealing at the melodrama, angry, martyr stuff - in fact I just want to kill him. So Bates walks in where Anna's working, pitches in, and is all normal and intelligent and genuine, and I was - OMG, PHEW. It's going to be one of those huge misunderstandings!

 

 

For me you have nailed it with the Bates character. From seeing Brendon Coyle in other things, I think he needs to be a character who is effective in an understated way, preferably with a twinkle in his eye. Coyle is very good at subtlety with a twinkle. Give him a character that requires ham-handed melodrama, and he's rather awful. 

[JudyObscure]

I would like to see Daisy's magical history book.  Before she picked it up she was so shy she couldn't look a footman in the eye and thought herself too stupid for farming.  After a few chapters she was being condescending to Mrs. Patmore about being a cook, "Not that there's anything wrong with that."  Another chapter and she was giving orders to Mr. Mosely, and now she's ready to give impromptu empowerment speeches to the titled folk upstairs. Amazing.

 

Unfortunately I watch "The Bachelor," so I couldn't help but hear Tony's reaction to Mary as Nick's speech to Andi after she chose another man.  Nick couldn't believe that she was rejecting him after she had done, "fiancee things," in the Fantasy Suite.

 

Why do people keep inviting Miss Bunting "for" Tom?  If he's really one of them then why does he need a lower class person to talk to over dinner?  I really wish he would say, "No thank you, I've already invited Lady Daffodil from Nettleweed Manor."

[glasscaseofemotion]

OMG, yes, this whole police investigation has been ridiculous.  

Let's see what they've come up with so far:  a couple of years ago a man stumbled off the pavement, was hit and killed by a bus.  No witnesses.  Except that, nearly two years after the fact, a witness comes forward to say they overheard the victim say "What are you doing here?" to someone else before he fell.  Wow - that IS damning evidence!  Enough for Scotland Yard to send out inquiries to every place the victim ever visited, to ask of everyone he ever met, if they knew of any problems he had with anyone.  Perfectly reasonable.  No one knows anything (at least, that's what they tell the constable), but oh, hey...someone at the victim's place of employment now recalls that he once complained  "wasn't treated well" when he stayed at Downton.  I'm surprised the entire Crawley family and all the staff weren't arrested on such ironclad evidence.

Luckily, the crime rate is slow enough in London that the police can afford to put a plain-clothes detective on permanent watch of Lord Gillingham's house.  Again, it just stands to reason they'd watch the house now, TWO YEARS AFTER THE EVENTS.  Something's bound to turn up, and  they are so close to solving this case now.  If only...if only someone would drop by the house one of these days, then take a walk along a busy street in Picadilly...that would totally cinch this case.  Because nothing whatever convinces a jury like someone revisiting the scene of a crime.  

Egad. This all makes me long so much for Law & Order.  I want Briscoe and Logan to come in and question the kitchen staff, who, in typical L&O fashion, would never pause in preparing a meal, even when being interviewed by the MURDER police! 

 

Baahaa ha! Love this mental image of the downstairs staff being interviewed in L&O fashion, with Mrs. Patmore snidely saying to Lenny "I still need to get the puddings and the savories out, detective!" as she bangs around dishes.

 

This absurd storyline with the death of Greene is straining incredulity at this point. Maybe...maybe they'd have a plainclothes officer standing watching at Gillingham's IF it were an aristocrat who they thought might have been murdered and made to look an accident. OR if there'd now been a string of similar accidents, which made them think a killer was on the loose. But, almost two years after the fact, and with a servant? Um, no. This is just silly and I wish Fellowes would just wrap up some of these storylines (this one plus Edith and the case of the missing babydaddy) and move on to more interesting ones. It really is a shame that this is where he ended up with Anna's rape storyline. That scene, while so gruesome, I thought really drove home how violent rape can be - that it isn't just about sex, it's about overpowering someone and hurting them - and now, this part is just so ridiculous that the impact of that moment is now ruined.

[ShadowFacts]

There is no earthly reason Sarah B would have been invited back to dinner a second, let alone, third or fourth time.  It is absolutely predictable what will happen.  Just ridiculous.  I still think she is only a catalyst for Tom to get moving out of Downton.  He isn't pursuing her, she isn't especially interested in him and just likes the chance to rabble rouse.

 

I almost stopped watching after the scene with the cop on the street watching Tony's place.  Come on.  And then for the reveal that his place is under constant surveillance.  So unbelievable.

 

I think Mary misread Tony and didn't cooly assess the possible consequences beyond her acquisition of the diaphragm.  Tony came up with an ungentlemanly plan; red flag, honey!  That he would react in an ungentlemanly manner was highly possible.  I wonder who she will confide in to process her feelings, Anna?  Granny?

 

Speaking of Violet, it does seem like she had more than just a flirtation.  And both of them married.  Out and out adultery, quite dissimilar from Mary and Tony who are both single.  I think I'm getting the vapors just thinking about it.

[Constantinople]

I think the "poor" characters have so many sympathetic figures among them on the show - Anna, Mrs. Hughes, Carson, Mrs. Patmore, Daisy, Bates, Tom (when he was Branson), etc. etc. - that I can't see a "evil poors vs. blameless rich" dichotomy. I think it's refreshing that the rich AREN'T portrayed as heartless evil slavedrivers for a change.

Anna, Mrs. Hughes, Carson, Mrs. Patmore, Daisy and Bates are all properly deferential to the British class system. Perhaps Daisy is getting a little uppity, but it's only downstairs uppity, if that, and talking about the Glorious Revolution of 1688 in 1924 isn't exactly firebrand material.

In previous seasons Tom talked politics with his employer's daughter and offered her pamphlets; let female protesters who handed out flowers during the war time concert for cowardice what he thought about them; planned to dump a bowl full of dung on a general; ran off with that lord's daughter; if not exactly fire bombed the housing of the Anglo-Irish aristocracy, at least knew a lot of details in advance of it.

Now Tom can't even stop his female relatives from inviting someone to dinner on his behalf.

So all of these characters are "good".

Bunting, however, questions whether countries need hereditary aristocracies, so she has the social graces of a freight train.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Constantinople

[Andorra]

I'm a bit surprised that everyone is criticizing Tony for his behaviour, but no one is critcizing Mary?

 

I actually think they're even. After all what was he supposed to think after she played "happily in love" for him at the hotel in Liverpool? His anger is not nice, but she wasn't fair with him either. She pretended to be perfectly happy and he was clearly thinking that they would get married now and then she ran around and told 4 people (Anna, Tom, Violet and Blake) that she was going to dump him, before she dumped him.

 

So IMO Mary has no reason to hink he would just say: "Oh, okay. Then it was nice to meet you, bye." and deserved part of his anger. And HE deserved to have his pride wounded, because he was just too sure.

[Milburn Stone]

The thing that made Bunting really awful this time was that Tom had just told her, "I love these people. Please at least keep that in mind." Yet she still couldn't resist.

 

This season is absolutely larded with plot lines having to do with the overturning of the old order. First, and most obviously, the despicable Bunting. But we also have Daisy; and of course there's the exiled Russian Aristocracy as a reminder of the suffering that happens when The People take over.

[glasscaseofemotion]

Mary should have considered all the consequences of her "sketching trip" with Tony. If she'd considered for a moment that sexy times with him weren't going to pan out into walking down the aisle, perhaps she should have thought about whether or not he'd keep his lips sealed about their little liaison. Right or wrong, for the time period, she would definitely have a reputation, the tongues would wag and it would be bad for the family.

 

Isn't the deal with Tony that he needs to bag a rich lady in order to stay amongst the upper class? Isn't that why it was a big deal that he snagged Miss Fox?

 

So, perhaps he'll blackmail Mary into marrying him.

[HyacinthBucket]

The thing that made Bunting really awful this time was that Tom had just told her, "I love these people. Please at least keep that in mind." Yet she still couldn't resist.

 

 

Not only that, but when Lord Grantham graciously said something about being pleased (or happy) for Daisy, she immediately challenged him!  She had promised Tom that she would "nice" to Lord Grantham as long as he was nice to her.  Strongly suggesting that your host is a liar is not nice, Bunting.  Not nice at all.  I love Isobel, but if she opens her big yap again and invites Bunting to another dinner, I may be forced to place her on my "Expendable Characters" list.  Bunting is on my "Please Die a Horrible, Gruesome Death" list.  If only Thomas would put his evil skills to good use.  

 

I thought Gillingham was rather pathetic last season; now I think he is arrogant and insufferable.  The only way he can possibly make me see him in a kinder light is for him to give Edith the ammunition she needs to be able to take a few well-deserved shots at Mary, if and when Mary finally stops being too self-absorbed to put two and two together and realize that Marigold is Edith's child.  

 

I couldn't agree more with all the comments about the sheer ridiculousness of the Never-ending Bates' Misery.  I'm sick to death of it.

[proserpina65]

It's official - Sarah Bunting is now the worst person ever on this show.  Well, okay, not worse than the valet who raped Anna, but second-most awful in her own special way.  At least the newspaper magnate in Season Two was entertaining, and Mr. Bates' wife was played by Maria Doyle Kennedy, so the acting wasn't an issue like it is for this Bunting woman.  UGH!

[PRgal]

 . I really, really want Tom to just snap and tell her that she has not only completely inspired him to become a complete British loyalist and member of the Conservative Party but also gay (his couple name with Barrow can be...Tom Barrow), because she is just that unattractive in mind, spirit and body.  Again, I really enjoy my hatred of this trashy heifer.  She's the '20s Britain version of Alexis Davis from General Hospital.

 

Say yes, Isobel! 

 

I'm surprisingly really invested in this Barrow and Baxter story.

 

Nah...Tom's couple name with Thomas would be....Branrow or The Toms.  And yes, Isobel NEEDS to say YES!  She has to have a companion closer to her own age.  As for Miss Bunting:  I wonder if she's rude to the kids she teaches or to their parents.  I'm not sure if the village school is a one roomer (did they have one room schoolhouses in the UK?) or if there are several classrooms.  If it's the latter, I wonder if she's one of those teachers that kids pray that they WON'T get!

[stopeslite]

At this point, I would almost welcome a parade of "Why the Granthams are the best" out of the staff. Ms. Bunting mouths off downstairs, and Mr. Bates, walking by, says "I was crippled and not fit for any work, but Lord Grantham took me in as his valet because he cared about me". Then Daisy says "my family couldn't support me, but they took me here". And Thomas says his dad beat him and threw him out of the house, but he got hired at Downton. And etc. and etc. wherein they're all Island of Misfit Toys and are grateful for their lot at Downton and Bunting can JUST SHUT UP NOW.

[Constantinople]

Oh, one other thing I found amusing was the hilarious proficiency of the police. They're following up every miniscule lead! They're questioning people over a death that happened years ago! They've got a plainclothes policeman at Gillingham's house!

 

 

OMG, yes, this whole police investigation has been ridiculous.

 

 

Sometimes I just can't with this show. So, a valet's somewhat suspicious death would merit 24-hour surveillance and a tail on another servant who had a perfectly legitimate reason to be there in the first place? I highly doubt it.

I agree, which is why I've decided that the British Government suspects Lord Gillingham is a Soviet agent.

The Green investigation is just incidental, or they suspect Green was killed to keep him from blowing the whistle on the commie-coddling-viscount.

After all, Gillingham is broke, yet somehow is still keeping up appearances, and has ties with Downton Abbey, a.k.a Red Central. He often shows-up in the area unexpectedly. Perhaps some of the exiles in the area are actually Russian spies.

And just why do those Downton women keep inviting a known socialist agitator -- code name: Sara Bunting -- to dinner?

[JudyObscure]

That's all far too entertaining and intriguing for this show, Constantinople!  Besides it would take longer to present than Fellowes thinks our attention span could tolerate.  I just re-watched and counted fifty separate scenes for a 48 minute episode.

[Charlie Baker]

Enough with Molesley as punching bag, Julian. Give him and us a break. Please.

[SusanSunflower]

Thomas' "cure" (if that's what it is) appears not dissimilar to that which Turing endured under court order, in 1952, that led to his suicide -- I'm just saying. I'd like some fact-check about this being something available and advertised in 1924. Self-injectables can be tricky (see drug addicts), and extraction of hormones tricky as well (generic insulin notoriously needed to be refrigerated,  some forms may well still do). 

 

eta: Agree about Moseley.  Moseley and Baxter were becoming MVP's in my book and I was enjoying/anticipating another Moseley crush ... hopefully this time ... nevermind. 

Edited January 26, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Hanahope]

I do really hope there's something more to this Greene business that simple murder because Greene pissed someone off.  It is just totally ridiculous.  Why wouldn't Anna go visit Picadilly?  Why one earth, if she killed Green, would she have returned to the scene in any event?  If this is all just to have Anna tell Bates that it was Greene that raped her, I'll be very disappointed.  Did the plainsclothes detective (really, they had so many spare people at the police station back then that they could afford to camp someone out at Gillinghams and watch the place 24/7 for how long?) know Anna's description so well that he immediately knew she was Mrs. Bates as opposed to any other servant?  About the only way this would be satisfactorily resolved would be if somehow Gillingham ends up implicating himself in Greene's murder, which he did because he's so obsessed with Mary he had to "do away" with Greene when Mary said he must dismiss him because Gillingham is crazy pants.

 

Bunting - rude cow.  Sheesh.  I did like Mary telling her that she made her point, shut up.  Too bad Bunting couldn't.  Lord G, though, should  never have had the cooks come up.   Really, would Mrs. Pattmore admit that Daisy's studies interfered with the kitchen?  She would never admit such a thing to him, as she would believe it would reflect badly on her for failing to keep the kitchen in order. 

 

So I guess the real estate thing was that the first developer wanted to put up cookie-cutter row homes, but Lord G said no, put up a few single-family mini-mansions instead.

 

Did Mosely not see Jimmy ever doing all the extra work as "first footman" or was that really a bunch of made up stuff by Carson?

[Avaleigh]

I think the "poor" characters have so many sympathetic figures among them on the show - Anna, Mrs. Hughes, Carson, Mrs. Patmore, Daisy, Bates, Tom (when he was Branson), etc. etc. - that I can't see a "evil poors vs. blameless rich" dichotomy. I think it's refreshing that the rich AREN'T portrayed as heartless evil slavedrivers for a change.

 

Anna, Mrs. Hughes, Carson, Mrs. Patmore, Daisy and Bates are all properly deferential to the British class system. Perhaps Daisy is getting a little uppity, but it's only downstairs uppity, if that, and talking about the Glorious Revolution of 1688 in 1924 isn't exactly firebrand material.

 

 

I guess I feel like there's at least something of a balance. Gwen was miserable at the idea of spending life in service so the story was written so that we would root for her to make her escape. With Alfred I feel like we're also supposed to be happy that he's moving up and it wasn't an Edna or Ethel situation where the character is penalized for wanting more than to spend his life in service. With Mrs Hughes I think it's made clear that she doesn't worship the family and isn't as deferential as Carson is in that sense. And even Carson, the least likely of the downstairs lot to be anything but deferential, had no problem telling Mary the truth about herself even though it left her feeling upset and disappointed with him. 

 

At this point, I would almost welcome a parade of "Why the Granthams are the best" out of the staff. Ms. Bunting mouths off downstairs, and Mr. Bates, walking by, says "I was crippled and not fit for any work, but Lord Grantham took me in as his valet because he cared about me". Then Daisy says "my family couldn't support me, but they took me here". And Thomas says his dad beat him and threw him out of the house, but he got hired at Downton. And etc. and etc.

 

 

Mrs Hughes was given the assurance that she has a place at Downton for life and that the family would have taken care of her back when she had the cancer scare. I felt like she was extremely touched by what Cora said and that the experience basically made her change her opinions on the family as a whole. With Mrs Patmore of course we know that Robert took care of her eye surgery in addition to being of assistance regarding finding out about what happened with her nephew in the war. Molesley doesn't know it of course but he got money from the family (Violet) when he desperately needed it. I think it even says something that Bates knew that he'd be able to ask Violet directly for money for Molesley without Violet being in any way suspicious or feeling like Bates over stepped or anything like that. 

 

Besides it would take longer to present than Fellowes thinks our attention span could tolerate.  I just re-watched and counted fifty separate scenes for a 48 minute episode.

 

 

I have to say though, I suppose this speaks volumes to the power and entertainment factor of the show if even in its fifth season we can happily re-watch the episodes we don't particularly care for or would like to have seen played out differently. I didn't think this was an especially strong episode but I so know I'm going to watch and DVR the encore later this week.

[RedHawk]

"The Dowager C pulls strings for her old side piece"

 

 

ROFL!

 

Loved that they staged a walk-though by the grandkids just so we got the pleasure of hearing Sybbie call Robert "Donk" again, and seeing his resigned reaction to it.

 

I hope Cora gets one passionate kiss in a discrete corner. Just a little thing to reignite her spark, and then I'm sure she'll use it for her husband's benefit, not that he deserves it. Everyone can benefit from a little fantasy...

 

Yes, Shrimpie's wife's name is Susan. I don't quite get it -- are they acting like Shrimpie will be nearly destitute if he divorces? He had a title but no money, right? Well, how does Susan get to keep "her" money in a divorce in 1924? Or did I misunderstand?

Edited January 26, 2015 by RedHawk

[Aethera]

There really were way too many storylines this week.

 

Lord Merton = Adorable. I definitely think she should say yes.

 

Barrow's mystery cure - I like seeing him be the one with the secret rather than super evil Barrow all the time. Now she can show him kindness or whatever and he can feel like he's actually nice for 30 seconds.

 

Rose & Shrimpy - I actually thought his scenes were good. I don't mind Shrimpy. I can't recall much about Susan but I do remember she was a bitch. And I think Rose is far better this season than last. Obviously her dad isn't going to just let her do what she wants though, so that was a bit of an immature ask.

 

I thought Sarah Bunting was totally in the wrong by the end of all that. She is right about facts, but wrong about the way she tries to convince people of anything. I don't care what decade it is, you don't act like that. Especially when Robert complimented the teaching and tried to end it. I will give the actress credit though, for clearly showing that she just can't freaking help herself. Stridency is never a good tool when trying to get people to agree with you though, jesus.  And I agree, it's really weird that the girls keep dragging her to Downton when Tom doesn't even seem to really be interested.

 

Endlessly tired of Edith.  Pull yourself together girl. This is your own fault. Also, Drewe should just tell his wife already.  It's not any more dangerous really. Women can keep secrets.

 

Anna, man you're stupid. You're not Ms. Marple. (Side note: Isobel in a spin-off where she's all Marpleish - would watch.) Eventually it's alllll going to come out but of course we'll have to wait at least another full season.

 

Robert, stop being a dick to your wife. Cora, recruit Mary openly to your side - 'you get to participate and I want to too!' 

 

Tony - I get the outrage. But man, that was weird. And then we never saw how Mary felt about it after?  I still prefer Blake.

 

Mrs. Patmore - nice work this week. Repeatedly sticking it to Carson was really interesting.

 

Mosely - Ok actually I like Mosely and don't like that Mrs. H and Carson got together to torture him. It wasn't funny. But at least he's getting fleshed out as a character, and is less yelpy.

 

Generally Carson has become more of a caricature than the full character he used to be. He needs better stuff to do.

Dowager - her pivot at the dinner table to Edith's column cracked me up.  But overall it's really, really nice that she has stuff to do instead of just getting the one hilariously arch line.  I highly doubt she runs off with the Russian, but it's at least something interesting and different.

 

Is that all of them? Yeesh.  Oh right, building McMansions - that was just silly I don't even have an opinion.

 

Overall, I'm enjoying the season though. I kind of wish I'd just waited for it all to be available and watched it all at once - I really enjoyed Season 1 that way, and I think it would make some of these storylines feel less drawn out.

[RedHawk]

Speaking of Violet, it does seem like she had more than just a flirtation.  And both of them married.  Out and out adultery, quite dissimilar from Mary and Tony who are both single.  I think I'm getting the vapors just thinking about it.

She was on the verge of running off with the Prince! That's why she seems to feel she "owes" his wife something. Her husband's gift of a framed photo of their children (young Robert and Rosamund!) brought her back to reality and her duties and she chose to stay in her marriage.

She needs a date with the "Bus of Justice" in the worst way.

 

Love this, Popples!  I would really like to see the "Bus of Justice" make a stop for Miss Bunting.

I hope the Bus of Justice runs her over, then goes round the Circus and runs her over again -- just to be sure. 

Edited January 26, 2015 by RedHawk