Monk - General Discussion

[Kat20]

My favorite episodes:

"Mr.Monk Gets Cabin Fever" was interesting since the couple across the lake had southern accents, and he discovered where Sierra Springs water came from when they got lost.

"Mr.Monk and the Class Reunion" had him defrosting the refrigerator.

"Mr.Monk and the Astronaut" Randy's remark about the globe was the highlight.

"Mr.Monk and the Game Show"

"Mr.Monk Gets Drunk"

"Mr.Monk and the Critic"

"Mr.Monk Fights City Hall" had the congresswoman's idiot secretary not knowing how to use a computer and printer and forgetting to tell him upfront that she had two apartments.

"Mr.Monk Gets Lotto Fever"

"Mr.Monk and the End, Part 1 &2" I do wonder how Trudy's parents never knew she was pregnant.

[shapeshifter]

25 minutes ago, Kat20 said:

"Mr.Monk and the End, Part 1 &2" I do wonder how Trudy's parents never knew she was pregnant.

I’ve never thought about this before. 
Maybe since Trudy being pregnant in college was only written into the series double-episode finale, it was kind of a joke on fans that it could never be explained why her parents didn’t notice?

Or maybe she told them it was just the “freshman fifteen”?
 

Edited June 26, 2020 by shapeshifter

[LexieLily]

57 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I’ve never thought about this before. 
Maybe since Trudy being pregnant in college was only written into the series double-episode finale, it was kind of a joke on fans that it could never be explained why her parents didn’t notice?

Presumably they also wouldn't have wanted to explain in too much detail how a professor had an ongoing affair with a much-younger (underage?) student that resulted in said pregnancy, and how Trudy's parents never noticed that, either. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by LexieLily

[shapeshifter]

35 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

For some reason the "Garfunkel" episode really bothers me.

That's "Mr. Monk Gets Lotto Fever." I like the episode because of the word play --including "Garfunkel." 
I feel sad for the murder victims.
Was there something else that bothers you in that episode?

 

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

On 6/26/2020 at 5:23 PM, shapeshifter said:

That's "Mr. Monk Gets Lotto Fever." I like the episode because of the word play --including "Garfunkel." 
I feel sad for the murder victims.
Was there something else that bothers you in that episode?

It seemed like they were making fun of Art Garfunkel, I thought it was totally unnecessary.

You are right. I never thought about it that way. I'm guessing the writers for the episode didn't either. Humor can be cruel. 😞

[Ailianna]

On 6/25/2020 at 2:59 PM, LexieLily said:

I've always had a soft spot for Ambrose and one of my favorite scenes was Ambrose's confession of why he'd stayed away from Monk all these years (because he felt guilty about Trudy being out getting him cough medicine when she was murdered), but what did you guys think of Jack Jr? Personally I always thought Jack Jr. was just like his father and not in a good way - both of them only sought out relationships with Monk when they wanted something from him. I was surprised that in, Mr. Monk Meets His Dad, that it was Stottlemeyer that was the main one pushing Monk to go on the trip and reconnect with Jack Sr.

I think Stottlemeyer being the drive behind reconnecting with Monk's dad makes sense, since not only is he a dad, but one who has had some rough patches with his own son.  I think he was looking at it from the perspective of not only what Monk was losing, but what his dad was losing too.

[catlover79]

After seeing the jury duty episode, I have to add it to my Top 10. "No ID!" "No idea?" "NOOOO I...D!!" "No idea? Just check her identification!" 😂😂😂😂😂

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, catlover79 said:

After seeing the jury duty episode, I have to add it to my Top 10. "No ID!" "No idea?" "NOOOO I...D!!" "No idea? Just check her identification!" 😂😂😂😂😂

The jury duty episode annoyed me a little but just because Monk - a former noted police officer and current noted police consultant - was selected for a jury in the first place, though the show did lampshade itself a little bit by having Natalie bring it up at the beginning of the episode.

[shapeshifter]

7.14 "Mr. Monk and the Bully" is airing on the H&I Thursday marathon. Even though Natalie uses the word "torture" to describe giving 12-year-old Monk a "swirly" (holding his head in the toilet and flushing) the word "waterboarding" never finds its way into the episode, which surprises me, since that word is used to describe such treatment of a L&O suspect to learn the whereabouts of a kidnapped child.

ETA: Even though I've seen the episode several times (albeit while multitasking) I just noticed that the Bully's wife being almost drowned in a bathtub is very similar to the "swirlies." But Monk, Natalie, and the Scooby gang save her.

Edited July 2, 2020 by shapeshifter

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

ETA: Even though I've seen the episode several times (albeit while multitasking) I just noticed that the Bully's wife being almost drowned in a bathtub is very similar to the "swirlies." But Monk, Natalie, and the Scooby gang save her.

Whereupon Randy doesn't know which twin to arrest and Stottlemeyer snaps that the easiest thing to do is arrest the twin that didn't just almost drown.

[Ailianna]

On 7/2/2020 at 2:18 PM, shapeshifter said:

7.14 "Mr. Monk and the Bully" is airing on the H&I Thursday marathon. Even though Natalie uses the word "torture" to describe giving 12-year-old Monk a "swirly" (holding his head in the toilet and flushing) the word "waterboarding" never finds its way into the episode, which surprises me, since that word is used to describe such treatment of a L&O suspect to learn the whereabouts of a kidnapped child.

ETA: Even though I've seen the episode several times (albeit while multitasking) I just noticed that the Bully's wife being almost drowned in a bathtub is very similar to the "swirlies." But Monk, Natalie, and the Scooby gang save her.

I think (without going back to check) that the Monk episode was prior to the widespread public awareness of waterboarding.  In other words, if they had used that term, no one in the audience would know what they mean.  Plus, Monk isn't quite as ard-edged (or trying to be hard-edged) and L&O.

[shapeshifter]

Here I am again with something I just noticed while the H&I network Thursday Monk marathon is running "in the background."

In 8.5 "Mr. Monk Takes the Stand," and:

Quote

There's trouble in the courtroom for Monk when an unrelenting defense attorney questions the eccentric detective's unconventional methods of solving crimes, attempting to prove that his not-so-by-the-book processes are faulty.

Monk is winning over the jury until the courtroom bully lawyer badgers Monk about having a "nurse." Monk tries to reclaim his dignity by emphasizing that while he had a nurse, for 5 years Natalie has been working for him as an assistant, not a nurse.
This made me think about the many online debates and quizzes about preferences for Sharona vs. Natalie.

To be clear, this is all speculation on my part:
I know online blogs state that Bitty Schram left the show due to contract/pay disputes, but it just occurred to me that the writers and other Powers That Be (maybe evenTony Shaloub?) probably decided after 3 seasons of Monk having a nurse, his character was ready to progress to an assistant, which may have led to the recasting. 
Not only is Natalie an assistant rather than a nurse, she is less bossy. Even if Sharona and Monk had drawn up a new contract stating that she would be his assistant and not his nurse, it would not really have been possible to give Sharona a personality transplant. Better to start with a new cast member to signify Monk's progress. 
And now I'm wondering if they considered having Monk and Sharona redefine their roles but realized Sharona would not have wanted to take a pay cut. *Maybe* the press about Bitty Schram's contract was *really* about the character of Sharona.

And now a fun fact: Bitty Schram's middle name is Natalie (wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitty_Schram).

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Here I am again with something I just noticed while the H&I network Thursday Monk marathon is running "in the background."

In 8.5 "Mr. Monk Takes the Stand," and:

Monk is winning over the jury until the courtroom bully lawyer badgers Monk about having a "nurse." Monk tries to reclaim his dignity by emphasizing that while he had a nurse, for 5 years Natalie has been working for him as an assistant, not a nurse.

Granted, I haven't seen that episode in awhile, but while it would have been easy for a scummy lawyer like Harrison Powell to play on Monk's countless tics and phobias, I wouldn't have thought Stottlemeyer would have been that easy to rattle. Powell was so over the top in his badgering Monk and bringing up issues that had no bearing to the case that it made no sense why he wasn't reprimanded by the judge. 

[shapeshifter]

On 7/2/2020 at 1:18 PM, shapeshifter said:

7.14 "Mr. Monk and the Bully" is airing on the H&I Thursday marathon. Even though Natalie uses the word "torture" to describe giving 12-year-old Monk a "swirly" (holding his head in the toilet and flushing) the word "waterboarding" never finds its way into the episode, which surprises me, since that word is used to describe such treatment of a L&O suspect to learn the whereabouts of a kidnapped child.

ETA: Even though I've seen the episode several times (albeit while multitasking) I just noticed that the Bully's wife being almost drowned in a bathtub is very similar to the "swirlies." But Monk, Natalie, and the Scooby gang save her.Fe

I just saw the L&O episode that I referenced in my post 8 days ago. 

In case anyone but me is interested, it's 16.18 "Thinking Makes It So," in which:

Quote

Detective Fontana will have to use heavy-handed means in an attempt to extract the location of the kidnapped child of a bank manager who has been forced to assist in a heist at his own bank, but the tactic may not work in the end.

I noticed this line from the snarky lawyer (Dworkin) defending the kidnapper who was given a "swirly" (Monk's term, not spoken in L&O episode) in order to learn the location of the kidnapped 6-year-old girl:
"Detective Fontana's little trick wasn't exactly waterboarding, but really, what's in a name?"

And, regarding:

On 7/3/2020 at 1:33 PM, Ailianna said:

I think (without going back to check) that the Monk episode was prior to the widespread public awareness of waterboarding.  In other words, if they had used that term, no one in the audience would know what they mean.  Plus, Monk isn't quite as ard-edged (or trying to be hard-edged) and L&O.

L&O 16.18 "Thinking Makes It So" aired March 29, 2006
Monk 7.14 "Mr. Monk and the Bully" aired February 6, 2009

So I guess it's just a potato / potahto distinction, meaning different focus in different shows.

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by shapeshifter

[LexieLily]

Monk was the main character and rightfully show - the entire series was built around him and his characteristics, after all, and his way to get by in the world after Trudy's murder - but I always considered Leland the Papa Bear of the team and the one that held the Core Four together. He understood and was able to get through to Monk in a way that even Sharona/Natalie couldn't, probably because their history went back far enough that Leland knew Trudy.

Edited July 18, 2020 by LexieLily

[shapeshifter]

1.10 "Mr. Monk Takes a Vacation" aired today in which:  

• While Monk, Sharona, and Benjy are taking a week's vacation, Benjy witnesses a murder in a hotel room through a telescope. Aided by a security chief (Rita Bronwyn/Polly Draper) whose only experience with detective work comes from watching movies, Monk races to solve the case even as the evidence keeps disappearing.

Of all the female guest stars Monk interacts with, I think I enjoy Hotel Security Chief/noir movie fan Bronwyn the most. There's no real romance or sexual tension; instead they just seem like they would be BFFs. Two equally but differently awkward people devoted to solving puzzling crimes. I could imagine a re-imagining/sequel of the show with both of them starring. 

[LexieLily]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

1.10 "Mr. Monk Takes a Vacation" aired today in which:  

• While Monk, Sharona, and Benjy are taking a week's vacation, Benjy witnesses a murder in a hotel room through a telescope. Aided by a security chief (Rita Bronwyn/Polly Draper) whose only experience with detective work comes from watching movies, Monk races to solve the case even as the evidence keeps disappearing.

Of all the female guest stars Monk interacts with, I think I enjoy Hotel Security Chief/noir movie fan Bronwyn the most. There's no real romance or sexual tension; instead they just seem like they would be BFFs. Two equally but differently awkward people devoted to solving puzzling crimes. I could imagine a re-imagining/sequel of the show with both of them starring. 

This is one of my lesser-known favorite episodes mostly for the constantly-disappearing body, but it never quite rang true to me that Sharona wouldn't believe Benjy when he told her what he saw and what he found.

[shapeshifter]

On 7/23/2020 at 10:38 PM, LexieLily said:

This is one of my lesser-known favorite episodes mostly for the constantly-disappearing body, but it never quite rang true to me that Sharona wouldn't believe Benjy when he told her what he saw and what he found.

I'm pretty sure in each Monk episode there is always one premise like this that is not believable, but they just go with it. It's kind of a trademark. I can't think of another example right now because I'm half asleep, LOL, but I will likely edit this reply later when I find one or more. 

 

Editing 1 week later during Thursday H&I weekly Monk marathon:

I haven't noticed an extraneous impossibility yet, but "Mr. Monk Goes to Mexico" (2.2) is all about the unbelievable. Specifically, 2 "solved" cases that could not have happened (wild lion attack in Mexico and drowning in mid-air) with results staged by a vengeful medical examiner living under an assumed identity Mexico, designed to attract Monk so the vengeful ME could kill him.

Something else I just noticed during this viewing of "Mr. Monk Goes to Mexico":  Captain Alameda (Tony Plana) and Lieutenant Plato are *totally* Mexican versions of Stottlemeyer and Disher.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by shapeshifter

[shapeshifter]

During today's weekly H&I marathon I think I discovered the funniest, most comedic Monk bit of the series in 2.7 "Mr. Monk and the Sleeping Suspect." 

Quote

In a new twist on the "how could he (or she) possibly have done it" ... Monk suspects that the man responsible for the mail bombing murder of rich and beautiful Amanda Babbage is the victim's brother, Brian--who has been in a coma for four months after attempting to lure Stottlemeyer and Disher into a car chase and crashing into two cars. Since the package was postmarked three days before the bombing, Stottlemeyer is naturally skeptical, but he prefers siding with Monk to tagging along behind Agent Grooms of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, [ATF] who suspects the victim's other brother, Ricky.

 

 

Driving Stottlemeyer to extreme levels of exasperation, Monk is steadfast in his belief that the man in the coma is "the guy," despite coma guy's brother seemingly having a motive, and, well, unlike his brother, not being in a coma at the time of the crime.

Eventually Monk saves everyone from another bomb targeting the brother, after which Monk is seated in the brother's house, wrapped in a blanket (presumably because he is in shock?) suffering from temporary hearing loss, when Randy announces that the ATF agent has arrived. 

• [DESPERATE STOTTLEMEYER QUIPS] Monk, gimme somethin' else. Anything. Any theory besides the coma guy. If you were to tell me that Howdy Doody was behind this, it would make more sense.
• [TEMPORARILY BOMB-DEAFENED MONK HOARSELY YELLS IN RESPONSE] Why would Howdy Doody be sending people mail bombs? Wasn't he a puppet?

Stottlemeyer turns toward the ATF agent as he enters the scene.

• [ATF AGENT TO STOTTLEMEYER] Oh, you can't be serious. You still think Rip Van Winkle's behind this?

• [STOTTLEMEYER] We believe Brian Babbage is involved, yes. We just don't know how.

• [ATF AGENT, LOOKING AT DISHEVELED MONK WRAPPED IN A BLANKET] And by "we," you mean, you and your consultant.

• [MONK YELLS HOARSELY] Yeah, I'm pretty sure Howdy Doody was a puppet.

 

 

_____________________________________________________________

If you're not old enough to know who Howdy Doody is:  youtu.be/wxGlifFkpHY
And if you don't know who Rip Van Winkle is: wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_Van_Winkle

 

 

 

 

 

[andromeda331]

23 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

During today's weekly H&I marathon I think I discovered the funniest, most comedic Monk bit of the series in 2.7 "Mr. Monk and the Sleeping Suspect." 

 

 

Driving Stottlemeyer to extreme levels of exasperation, Monk is steadfast in his belief that the man in the coma is "the guy," despite coma guy's brother seemingly having a motive, and, well, unlike his brother, not being in a coma at the time of the crime.

Eventually Monk saves everyone from another bomb targeting the brother, after which Monk is seated in the brother's house, wrapped in a blanket (presumably because he is in shock?) suffering from temporary hearing loss, when Randy announces that the ATF agent has arrived. 

• [DESPERATE STOTTLEMEYER QUIPS] Monk, gimme somethin' else. Anything. Any theory besides the coma guy. If you were to tell me that Howdy Doody was behind this, it would make more sense.
• [TEMPORARILY BOMB-DEAFENED MONK HOARSELY YELLS IN RESPONSE] Why would Howdy Doody be sending people mail bombs? Wasn't he a puppet?

Stottlemeyer turns toward the ATF agent as he enters the scene.

• [ATF AGENT TO STOTTLEMEYER] Oh, you can't be serious. You still think Rip Van Winkle's behind this?

• [STOTTLEMEYER] We believe Brian Babbage is involved, yes. We just don't know how.

• [ATF AGENT, LOOKING AT DISHEVELED MONK WRAPPED IN A BLANKET] And by "we," you mean, you and your consultant.

• [MONK YELLS HOARSELY] Yeah, I'm pretty sure Howdy Doody was a puppet.

 

 

_____________________________________________________________

If you're not old enough to know who Howdy Doody is:  youtu.be/wxGlifFkpHY
And if you don't know who Rip Van Winkle is: wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_Van_Winkle

 

 

 

 

 

That was so funny! I also love Randy being so excited about a real car chase and how quickly it ended. Stottlemeyer asking him what he thought of it. Telling Monk the sleeping suspect was a vegetable then changing it to that he hoped one day to be a vegetable.

[LexieLily]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

During today's weekly H&I marathon I think I discovered the funniest, most comedic Monk bit of the series in 2.7 "Mr. Monk and the Sleeping Suspect." 

Driving Stottlemeyer to extreme levels of exasperation, Monk is steadfast in his belief that the man in the coma is "the guy," despite coma guy's brother seemingly having a motive, and, well, unlike his brother, not being in a coma at the time of the crime.

Which is place to one of my favorite exchanges of the episode and one of my favorite Monk/Stottlemeyer exchanges ever.

Stottlemeyer: All right, so... Brian built the bomb, and then Brian mailed the bomb, by himself.

Monk: That's right.

Stottlemeyer: While he was in a coma.

Monk: [admiringly] You gotta admit - it's a pretty good alibi. It's rock solid!

Capt. Stottlemeyer: Monk, I have known 15,000 criminals in my lifetime. Here's what they all have in common: they're conscious!

[christie]

I love the Monk Stottleeyer bromance; their scenes together were always my favourite part of the show.

[shapeshifter]

33 minutes ago, christie said:

I love the Monk Stottleeyer bromance; their scenes together were always my favourite part of the show.

I saw the Pilot not long ago and was surprised that the Monk-Stottlemeyer bromance was not even hinted at. 

[LexieLily]

11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I saw the Pilot not long ago and was surprised that the Monk-Stottlemeyer bromance was not even hinted at. 

Randy and Stottlemeyer were written to be a lot more antagonistic towards Monk in the pilot and for the majority of the first season. You wouldn't imagine that Leland doing what Leland of the later seasons did, when he helped Monk fake his death and set him up with a cover some states away in Mr. Monk Is On The Run. If that plan had ultimately failed, Stottlemeyer's career would have been over and he would have been in prison right with Monk.

I'm glad they changed it to make them friends with a long history. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by LexieLily

[andromeda331]

7 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Randy and Stottlemeyer were written to be a lot more antagonistic towards Monk in the pilot and for the majority of the first season. You wouldn't imagine that Leland doing what Leland of the later seasons did, when he helped Monk fake his death and set him up with a cover some states away in Mr. Monk Is On The Run. I'm glad they changed it to make them friends with a long history. 

So do I. It was better then them always been antagonistic plus it also made sense. Monk was a cop for years before Trudy's death its not like he's some PI or something coming showing them up. He and Stottlemeyer should know each other pretty well as well as other cops. Stottlemeyer's tude towards Monk in the beginning made no sense especially since he knew Monk, what happened to his wife and how it destroyed Monk. Randy's did because he probably never worked with Monk before and didn't know him other then his many issues but seem to have pull with the mayor. His frustration with Monk after they changed that made a lot more sense. Yes, he wanted Monk to get better and get his badge back but he also knew Monk wasn't ready and drove him crazy a lot. 

[LexieLily]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So do I. It was better then them always been antagonistic plus it also made sense. Monk was a cop for years before Trudy's death its not like he's some PI or something coming showing them up. He and Stottlemeyer should know each other pretty well as well as other cops. Stottlemeyer's 'tude towards Monk in the beginning made no sense especially since he knew Monk, what happened to his wife and how it destroyed Monk. 

Your comment made me think of something.

One of the saddest non-Monk lines I remember is from one of Natalie's earliest episodes. It's the one when Monk is in that cabin in the woods in witness protection, and I've forgotten why Stottlemeyer comes along but he's there too. It's his birthday weekend, and he and Monk are outside on the front porch (?) and Leland says "Happy birthday to me" in a sort of despondent-like tone, and wonders what happened to him because he was, at one point, the youngest detective ever to make Captain. Now he's just the guy that knows "where and how to find you [Monk]."

[VCRTracking]

I've heard her on Conan talk about this!

 

 

[shapeshifter]

"Mr. Monk Meets the Godfather" is airing.
I just realized that when not-so-fat "Fat Tony" is wooing Sharona by telling her he's getting his MBA and she asks what business he plans to go into, and he answers that he'd like to open a "bookstore," that he's probably really thinking of opening a business front for "making book."
Of course, later Randy plays the bugging tape of Fat Tony admitting that he was lying about the bookstore.

Edited August 13, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Salzmank]

Watched “Mr. Monk and the Dog” and “Mr. Monk Goes Camping” the other day. The second episode’s pretty weak on every front (Monk giving the Wilhelm scream is just the low point), but the first is excellent on comedy, drama, and mystery grounds. 

Monk’s love for the dog seems so genuine that it had me sad about the pets I’d lost. One Stottlemeyer-Disher exchange has some of the funniest lines in any Monk episode:

Quote

Disher: Maybe she [Shelby the dog] witnessed the murder. She saw DeWitt kill Amanda, and now he’s afraid that she’ll identify him.

Stottlemeyer: How?

Disher: She could bark at him.

Stottlemeyer: Randy, as far as I know, in the State of California, dogs are not allowed to testify in open court.

Disher: Well, maybe DeWitt’s afraid they’ll change the rule.

Stottlemeyer: What, change the rule against dogs testifying in court?

Disher: Hmm, you know, one of those referendums. It is California.

While the solution is far from the most shocking twist ever (in usual Monk fashion, you learn the killer’s identity about halfway through), the murderer’s desire to kill Shelby the dog—but not Monk—is a pretty clever clue as to motive, as is the joke about Shelby being “fat.” (The best mystery clues, as this show often proves, are hidden in or as jokes.)

I’m not sure this episode would make my Top 5, but it’d definitely make my Top 10.

[peacheslatour]

On 7/23/2020 at 9:28 PM, shapeshifter said:

I'm pretty sure in each Monk episode there is always one premise like this that is not believable, but they just go with it. It's kind of a trademark. I can't think of another example right now because I'm half asleep, LOL, but I will likely edit this reply later when I find one or more. 

 

Editing 1 week later during Thursday H&I weekly Monk marathon:

I haven't noticed an extraneous impossibility yet, but "Mr. Monk Goes to Mexico" (2.2) is all about the unbelievable. Specifically, 2 "solved" cases that could not have happened (wild lion attack in Mexico and drowning in mid-air) with results staged by a vengeful medical examiner living under an assumed identity Mexico, designed to attract Monk so the vengeful ME could kill him.

Something else I just noticed during this viewing of "Mr. Monk Goes to Mexico":  Captain Alameda (Tony Plana) and Lieutenant Plato are *totally* Mexican versions of Stottlemeyer and Disher.

 

"It's always the drugs."

[Salzmank]

Hate to say it because I like Willie Nelson, but “Mr. Monk and the Red-Headed Stranger,” which I watched last night, is an awful episode. The drama’s strained, the comedy is long, pointless and unfunny, Sharona’s unsympathetic (and oblivious), Disher has nothing to do, many script elements feel shoehorned in, and the solution stinks both on mystery and character grounds. Actually, Stottlemeyer’s action after Monk reveals the solution stinks even more. Gah, just an all-around bad episode.

[shapeshifter]

16 minutes ago, Salzmank said:

Hate to say it because I like Willie Nelson, but “Mr. Monk and the Red-Headed Stranger,” which I watched last night, is an awful episode. The drama’s strained, the comedy is long, pointless and unfunny, Sharona’s unsympathetic (and oblivious), Disher has nothing to do, many script elements feel shoehorned in, and the solution stinks both on mystery and character grounds. Actually, Stottlemeyer’s action after Monk reveals the solution stinks even more. Gah, just an all-around bad episode.

I like Willie Nelson too, but I also seem to recall avoiding this episode in reruns for awhile because I didn't care for it either.
But the last time I watched it I enjoyed it --maybe I was multitasking and missed the bad parts? 
Anyway, I just verified that I have access via Amazon Prime Video (thank you, daughter #1) so maybe I'll rewatch it soon and give my updated opinion. 

[peacheslatour]

I just read that the show's creators originally wanted Michael Richards for the role of Monk. Ye gods, that would have been a disaster.

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, Salzmank said:

Hate to say it because I like Willie Nelson, but “Mr. Monk and the Red-Headed Stranger,” which I watched last night, is an awful episode. The drama’s strained, the comedy is long, pointless and unfunny, Sharona’s unsympathetic (and oblivious), Disher has nothing to do, many script elements feel shoehorned in, and the solution stinks both on mystery and character grounds. Actually, Stottlemeyer’s action after Monk reveals the solution stinks even more. Gah, just an all-around bad episode.

Was that the one where the blind woman that may or may not have been blind murdered the guy that caused the accident that killed her parents? If I'm remembering it right, we only had her word for it and we don't know if he actually was behind the car accident that killed her parents.

[Salzmank]

4 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Was that the one where the blind woman that may or may not have been blind murdered the guy that caused the accident that killed her parents? If I'm remembering it right, we only had her word for it and we don't know if he actually was behind the car accident that killed her parents.

Yes! And (SPOILER) Stottlemeyer actually says he’ll speak to the DA about letting her off easy–after she killed a guy for reasons we’re not sure of, faked her blindness, and tried to frame Willie Nelson for her crime. WHAT?! 😠

I don’t usually go along with the “not in my head canon” thing, but I’m tempted to do so after this episode. It’s the pits.

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I just read that the show's creators originally wanted Michael Richards for the role of Monk. Ye gods, that would have been a disaster.

I can see what they were going for, but, yeah, he probably would have played it too broadly-comic and missed the sympathy in Shalhoub’s performance. Without that sympathy, the comedy would have just turned into “laugh at the OCD guy,” which, well, isn’t funny at all.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Salzmank

[Salzmank]

On 7/31/2020 at 12:36 AM, shapeshifter said:

During today's weekly H&I marathon I think I discovered the funniest, most comedic Monk bit of the series in 2.7 "Mr. Monk and the Sleeping Suspect." 

Driving Stottlemeyer to extreme levels of exasperation, Monk is steadfast in his belief that the man in the coma is "the guy," despite coma guy's brother seemingly having a motive, and, well, unlike his brother, not being in a coma at the time of the crime.

Eventually Monk saves everyone from another bomb targeting the brother, after which Monk is seated in the brother's house, wrapped in a blanket (presumably because he is in shock?) suffering from temporary hearing loss, when Randy announces that the ATF agent has arrived. 

• [DESPERATE STOTTLEMEYER QUIPS] Monk, gimme somethin' else. Anything. Any theory besides the coma guy. If you were to tell me that Howdy Doody was behind this, it would make more sense.
• [TEMPORARILY BOMB-DEAFENED MONK HOARSELY YELLS IN RESPONSE] Why would Howdy Doody be sending people mail bombs? Wasn't he a puppet?

Stottlemeyer turns toward the ATF agent as he enters the scene.

• [ATF AGENT TO STOTTLEMEYER] Oh, you can't be serious. You still think Rip Van Winkle's behind this?

• [STOTTLEMEYER] We believe Brian Babbage is involved, yes. We just don't know how.

• [ATF AGENT, LOOKING AT DISHEVELED MONK WRAPPED IN A BLANKET] And by "we," you mean, you and your consultant.

• [MONK YELLS HOARSELY] Yeah, I'm pretty sure Howdy Doody was a puppet.

____________________________________________________________

If you're not old enough to know who Howdy Doody is:  youtu.be/wxGlifFkpHY
And if you don't know who Rip Van Winkle is: wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_Van_Winkle

Great joke-writing—funny and fitting with the character.

I think “Sleeping Suspect” is my favorite episode. Humor, character, and mystery are top-notch. The ketchup-bottle clue is one of the most audacious and boggling things the show has ever done.

Astonishingly, though, writer Karl Schaefer never wrote for the show again. Makes no sense: he had a great grasp on the characters and on how mystery-plots work.

[LexieLily]

7 minutes ago, Salzmank said:

Yes! And (SPOILER) Stottlemeyer actually says he’ll speak to the DA about letting her off easy about it–after she killed a guy for reasons we’re not sure of, faked her blindness, and tried to frame Willie Nelson for her crime. WHAT?! 😠

I don’t usually go along with the “not in my head canon” thing, but I’m tempted to do so after this episode. It’s the pits.

That shoots this woman up to the top of the list of Monk-Caught Evil Murderers, then. And I've totally forgotten what Willie Nelson had to do with the crime at all or why she framed him. 

[Salzmank]

4 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

That shoots this woman up to the top of the list of Monk-Caught Evil Murderers, then. And I've totally forgotten what Willie Nelson had to do with the crime at all or why she framed him. 

What’s weird about it too is that the writers seem to be making a nice, coherent, non-patronizing point about sympathy for the blind—then shoot themselves in the foot by making her a killer who was faking blindness, and then try to double down on the sympathy anyway by having Stottlemeyer defend her! Makes zero sense.

As for Willie, woman claims she didn’t intend to frame him, which is bogus: she claimed to identify his voice and his voice alone as the one threatening the victim, among other things.

Heh, not sure why some random TV episode is making me so mad—but it really is an awful piece of television. Luckily no other Monk I’ve seen is quite this bad.

[LexieLily]

2 minutes ago, Salzmank said:

What’s weird about it too is that the writers seem to be making a nice, coherent, non-patronizing point about sympathy for the blind—then shoot themselves in the foot by making her a killer who was faking blindness, and then try to double down on the sympathy anyway by having Stottlemeyer defend her! Makes zero sense.

As for Willie, woman claims she didn’t intend to frame him, which is bogus: she claimed to identify his voice and his voice alone as the one threatening the victim, among other things.

Heh, not sure why some random TV episode is making me so mad—but it really is an awful piece of television. Luckily no other Monk I’ve seen is quite this bad.

I had forgotten all about this episode, honestly, until you brought it up 😊

I went back and read the summary of the episode. The now-murdered man spent eighteen months in prison for the death of the woman's parents, and it was a year before this current murder that the lady magically got her vision back that she proceeded to keep secret. Stottlemeyer is a good enough cop to have known all of this and known that this was clearly a revenge-based killing and very premeditated. No DA worth his salt would go easy on her given the timeline.

[andromeda331]

28 minutes ago, Salzmank said:

What’s weird about it too is that the writers seem to be making a nice, coherent, non-patronizing point about sympathy for the blind—then shoot themselves in the foot by making her a killer who was faking blindness, and then try to double down on the sympathy anyway by having Stottlemeyer defend her! Makes zero sense.

As for Willie, woman claims she didn’t intend to frame him, which is bogus: she claimed to identify his voice and his voice alone as the one threatening the victim, among other things.

Heh, not sure why some random TV episode is making me so mad—but it really is an awful piece of television. Luckily no other Monk I’ve seen is quite this bad.

That's why I hate the episode. They try to make the murderer sympathetic. She even thanks Monk for figuring it out and claiming she felt bad that everyone was blaming Willie Nelson. Except she was the reason that everyone was blaming him. She was the one who insisted the voice was Willie's and no one else's. She was the reason he was arrested in the first place.  She was framing him for her crime and letting him take the fall for it until Monk figured it out.  How is that sympathetic? She was a horrible person.

[Salzmank]

7 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That's why I hate the episode. They try to make the murderer sympathetic. She even thanks Monk for figuring it out and claiming she felt bad that everyone was blaming Willie Nelson. Except she was the reason that everyone was blaming him. She was the one who insisted the voice was Willie's and no one else's. She was the reason he was arrested in the first place.  She was framing him for her crime and letting him take the fall for it until Monk figured it out.  How is that sympathetic? She was a horrible person.

Exactly!

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, LexieLily said:

The now-murdered man spent eighteen months in prison for the death of the woman's parents

IIRC, the sympathy for the woman was based on the cops agreeing that 18 months was too little time to pay for killing her parents and blinding her (for however long she was really blind). 
Monk always has a lot of empathy for people who have had a loved one murdered.
And framing Willie was an afterthought, wasn't it? Hadn't she intended to have no witnesses, and then Willie happened upon the scene before she could do her fake call for help? I'm a little fuzzy on that part.

[LexieLily]

46 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

IIRC, the sympathy for the woman was based on the cops agreeing that 18 months was too little time to pay for killing her parents and blinding her (for however long she was really blind). 

The sympathy for the woman was based on the cops believing her that the guy was the contributing factor to the death of her parents. I don't think we ever learned that for a for-sure fact, did we?

[shapeshifter]

Here's the relevant dialogue

Quote

- Why would you wanna kill Sonny Cross?

[Woman]- Revenge.

[Monk] He was driving the car that killed your parents and left you blind in Tampa... 36 years ago. You knew he toured a lot. You waited for him to come through San Francisco, and eventually he did. They announced on the radio that Willie Nelson and his tour manager would be stopping by the station. So you got there early and put a note on the door. Then you waited. Before you killed him, did you tell him who you were?

[Woman]Yes. [Flashback] You killed my parents. This one is for them.

[Monk] And you made sure that the second shot was from 20 feet away, a crime no blind woman could have committed.
But then Willie Nelson showed up in that alley. You didn't count on that. - You couldn't just leave the scene, so...

[Flashback] Help.! Help, somebody.!

- You had to pretend to be a witness...

[Woman]- Jason Cross...served a year and a half. Vehicular manslaughter? That wasn't justice. What I did last week, that was justice.
How did you know?

[Monk explains]

[Woman]- Thank you, Mr. Monk.

 - You're thanking him?

[Woman]I am so relieved. It was tearing me up inside...that poor man was taking all the blame.

- You're gonna have to go to prison.

[Woman]- I understand.

Maybe I can talk to the D.A. About extenuating circumstances.

[Woman]- There's only one thing that I want.

- What's that?

[Woman]A window.

 

[andromeda331]

6 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Here's the relevant dialogue

 

Thanks for posting that. I still don't find her sympathetic. She did have a choice. To be a witness or admit to killing him. She chose to be a witness. She chose to say that the voice she heard was Willie Nelson. I understand she wanted to get away with her crime and had no way to know that Willie would show up before she could get away or pretend to find the body. But she was actively choosing to pin the murder on Willie. It was her fault that everyone thought Willie did it. At no time not even after he was arrest did she come forward to clear his name. Its nice that she thanked Monk for figuring it out but had he not would she have ever come forward? I don't think she would have. 

[shapeshifter]

Is it just Stottlemeyer who feels sympathy for her? The caption script I posted above isn’t always clear about who’s speaking. 
Anyway, maybe that’s why I felt some sympathy too. I still need to rewatch. I just know that I avoided rewatching it, but then when I did, I saw clues and motivations I had missed before. 

But IRL, I would think getting her sight back would make her feel grateful and inclined to forgive. 

[LexieLily]

Thanks for posting it, @shapeshifter. I still don't find her sympathetic because A) we never learned details about the car accident; just that he was driving and he was charged with vehicular manslaughter, and B) there was close to two years when he was in prison and after he got out that she actively chose to kill him without much remorse.

[Salzmank]

Spoilers for “Mr. Monk and the Secret Santa.”

Apropos of Monk killers we find sympathetic, someone at the Monk subreddit posted that he/she found the killer in “…and the Secret Santa” sympathetic—and I think I agree.

Thing is, I’m not sure why I feel that way. Plot-wise, this person shouldn’t be sympathetic; she risked (not a great risk, but still) poisoning Stottlemeyer and succeeded in poisoning her ex-lover. But she just seems likable somehow. Maybe that’s because she has such a good rapport with the four leads? (Unfortunately, that makes the solution kinda obvious—though it still has some clever points of interest.)

[LexieLily]

5 hours ago, Salzmank said:

Spoilers for “Mr. Monk and the Secret Santa.”

Apropos of Monk killers we find sympathetic, someone at the Monk subreddit posted that he/she found the killer in “…and the Secret Santa” sympathetic—and I think I agree.

Thing is, I’m not sure why I feel that way. Plot-wise, this person shouldn’t be sympathetic; she risked (not a great risk, but still) poisoning Stottlemeyer and succeeded in poisoning her ex-lover. But she just seems likable somehow. Maybe that’s because she has such a good rapport with the four leads? (Unfortunately, that makes the solution kinda obvious—though it still has some clever points of interest.)

Didn't the murderer work for the station? 

[Salzmank]

25 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Didn't the murderer work for the station? 

For the police station? Yeah, she was a cop.