Monk - General Discussion

[GHScorpiosRule]

More thoughts:

while I liked both actors, I liked the original Benjy. Don’t know why he was recast. I thought he was adorable. The last set of child actors that I thought were natural and acted like kids were Philip and Jamie from Scarecrow & Mrs. King!😄😄

Anyhoo. I wonder if the recast of Trevor was to “show” he wasn’t a big of an asshole and so adding in that Sharona left to remarry him would be more believable? Because nope. Trevor, the deadbeat dad who only returned so he could inherit dead uncle’s money only if he was married is suddenly a caring dad who Benjy sees??

What gave me whiplash was the multiple recasts of Jared, Stottlemeyer’s oldest.

I couldn’t really get on board with Trudy’s recast, Melora Hardin, because of seeing her in other shows where she’s played a killer or not nice person. Well, she was a good person on Quantum Leap, but that’s a one-off.

And as far as Jack Monk is concerned, I HATED that every single person was telling Adrian to give him a chance. Why? Why should he? The asshole abandoned his family with NO WORD. I hate this trope of having to forgive or character x will regret it forever. Just stop with that bullshit. Unless the reason was witness protection related, Adrian should have been able to stick to his guns and never spoken with him again.

And having Jack, Jr. show up was a waste and not needed as far as I’m concerned.

Aaand, it’s probably expected, but the timeline for when Adrian’s OCD set in was all over the place. I thought he said it started after he lost that track race in high school, but they changed it to when he was in middle school in season 6? 7? I know, I know, that’s the problem with binge watching! But I also have a nearly photographic memory, so I still would have caught that.

I loathed when Jay Mohr showed up because he ALWAYS plays an ASSHOLE. So I was disappointed that he didn’t turn out to be a crooked lawyer so he would have also been sent to jail. But hey! Judge was one of the original Pink Ladies Jan (Jamie Donnelly) from original 1978 Grease!

What?

Edited August 20, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[peacheslatour]

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And as far as Jack Monk is concerned, I HATED that every single person was telling Adrian to give him a chance. Why? Why should he? The asshole abandoned his family with NO WORD. I hate this trope of having to forgive or character x will regret it forever. Just stop with that bullshit. Unless the reason was witness protection related, Adrian should have been able to stick to his guns and never spoken with him again.

Could not agree more. Adrian had enough bad stuff happen to him. I hated that his old man tried to guilt him in any way.

[LexieLily]

19 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And as far as Jack Monk is concerned, I HATED that every single person was telling Adrian to give him a chance. Why? Why should he? The asshole abandoned his family with NO WORD. I hate this trope of having to forgive or character x will regret it forever. Just stop with that bullshit. Unless the reason was witness protection related, Adrian should have been able to stick to his guns and never spoken with him again.

Ans having Jack, Jr. show up was a waste and not needed as far as I’m concerned.

Agreed 1000% on both counts. Jack Sr. only came into Monk's area of town not because he really wanted to bond with his son but because he wanted Monk to get him out of a parking ticket, and Stottlemeyer and Natalie all but pushed Monk - Monk of all people, with all of his specific idiosyncrasies - to go on a three or four day road-trip halfway across the country in a truck? That made no sense and five minutes of Sr. teaching Monk to ride a bike in a parking lot doesn't make up for forty-something years of abandonment. That episode was ultimately worthless in the grand scheme of things because we never heard Monk so much as mention his father again, for better or for worse.

Jack Jr. was even worse than Sr. if that was possible, 'hand to God.' Jr. had his entire life to make contact with his half-brother and only did so when he needed Monk to prove him innocent of murder.

Neither Jr. or Sr. wanted anything to do with Monk until they needed his genius brain for their own gain, and I hated how the show framed it as Monk being so desperate for family validation that he accepted the behavior.

Edited August 20, 2021 by LexieLily

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And as far as Jack Monk is concerned, I HATED that every single person was telling Adrian to give him a chance. Why? Why should he? The asshole abandoned his family with NO WORD. I hate this trope of having to forgive or character x will regret it forever. Just stop with that bullshit. Unless the reason was witness protection related, Adrian should have been able to stick to his guns and never spoken with him again.

I completely agree. I absolutely hate storylines where everyone is telling someone to give the parent who abused and/or abandoned them another chance. No Adrian does not have to give the parent who abandoned him another chance. Jack had his chance. He's had decades worth of chances and he chose not to. Adrian has every right not to see him and I wish he had stuck to his guns too. People like Jack don't deserve chances. Everyone knew how much it messed up Adrian and Ambrose when he left. They should have completely agreed with Adrian. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And having Jack, Jr. show up was a waste and not needed as far as I’m concerned.

Aw, really? I love the humor in that episode.

 

[Annber03]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh yeah. I remember on Politically Incorrect when Tim was on, another guest went off about how he hated when actors played cult leaders/killers, thus glorifying them, and the movie (television movie on ABC, I think) had just come out, and Tim is sitting right there. Clearly the guest hadn’t seen it or knew of Tim’s work.

Ha! Well. Talk about awkward :p. 

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The one with Stephen Webber was very difficult to watch. I don’t like it when he plays a bad guy or asshole. I can deal with a con guy, as he did on Psych as Shawn’s uncle. But it was great to see Tony and Stephen onscreen together again.

I don't know how accurate this information is, but I read on the TV Tropes page for this show that apparently Weber was also really uncomfortable with the awful stuff he had to say in that scene, to the point where he  even tried to talk to the producers about changing it! If that's true, that really says a lot right there. 

There was a (very small) part of me that did get a bit of a kick out of Monk attacking Max in that moment, 'cause it made me think of an episode of "Wings" where Antonio and Brian (Shalhoub and Weber's characters, for those who aren't familiar with the show) got into a bit of a physical confrontation. It was much more mild and intended as a more humorous scene in that case, but still, when I saw that scene with Monk going after Max I was like, "Boy, they seem to enjoy doing scenes where their characters get to fight with each other." :p.

I've said before in other discussions that I think that scene really shows just how good an actor Shalhoub is - the look on Monk's face as he's listening to Max say those awful things is just so incredibly gutwrenching. The moment afterward, where Leland expresses his support for Monk and manages to get him to calm down and focus, is really good, too. 

Speaking of favorite guest stars, another one I liked was Amy Sedaris as Sharona's sister Gail. I love "Strangers with Candy", so it was fun to see her pop up on this show :).

As for the discussion about Monk's father, add me to the chorus of voices who agree that he shouldn't have been made to forgive him. The fact we never saw his dad again after that episode, and there was virtually no mention of him beyond that, seems further proof of that - I have no problem believing Jack Sr. didn't keep in touch with Monk after that reunion.

I was talking with @LexieLily about that episode a while back and my theory was that the reason Leland in particular was pushing so hard for them to talk things out was because he was projecting his own issues and fears involving his relationship with his sons onto Monk. He was divorced by that time, and I could see him being afraid of his relationship with his boys turning out similar to that of Monk and his dad, and so that factored into his feelings on the topic. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I was talking with @LexieLily about that episode a while back and my theory was that the reason Leland in particular was pushing so hard for them to talk things out was because he was projecting his own issues and fears involving his relationship with his sons onto Monk. He was divorced by that time, and I could see him being afraid of his relationship with his boys turning out similar to that of Monk and his dad, and so that factored into his feelings on the topic. 

Yes. IIRC, that was the point. 
And every Monk episode always has plot and story points that are inconsistent with the characters or the previous stories. 
It's kind of a writing hallmark of the show.
To me, this writing idiosyncrasy serves to emphasize that this is dramedy, and, more importantly, obscures the mystery of the case a bit to keep the viewers' interest.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes. IIRC, that was the point. 
And every Monk episode always has plot and story points that are inconsistent with the characters or the previous stories. 
It's kind of a writing hallmark of the show.
To me, this writing idiosyncrasy serves to emphasize that this is dramedy, and, more importantly, obscures the mystery of the case a bit to keep the viewers' interest.

Ans that makes no sense to  me. Just because a show is a dramedy doesn’t mean the writing/continuity should be inconsistent.

Otherwise, don’t make it serialized and don’t provide the characters’ background. Just make it a killer of the week show.

If the show is going to give us characters they want us to care about, or a show the viewers can follow, they need to be consistent with plots, back stories, etc. 

But that’s just me, I guess.

8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I was talking with @LexieLily about that episode a while back and my theory was that the reason Leland in particular was pushing so hard for them to talk things out was because he was projecting his own issues and fears involving his relationship with his sons onto Monk. He was divorced by that time, and I could see him being afraid of his relationship with his boys turning out similar to that of Monk and his dad, and so that factored into his feelings on the topic. 

I guess that was Leland’s fear and we have to accept it even though it’s not the same at all.

He didn’t abandon his family and disappear from their lives. He’s still there. Unless he planned to do the same as Jack, the same thing wouldn’t have happened.

Jack Senior got a mention or two when Jack Junior showed up. But nothing else. So I ask again, what was the point? And even if there was, I don’t see why Adrian had to give him the time of day.

Another plot line that I didn’t like that was also dropped was about Mitch. That line from Natalie as to why she couldn’t quit the election for the council because oh look! Mitch wasn’t a hero, but a coward!🙄🙄 I had hoped they would come back to that and learn that the men who survived had lied about that since Mitch, you know died and couldn’t defend himself.

It’s odd to see Casper Van Dien as a good guy because he’ll always be that frat dude that caused the fire in Beverly Hills, 90210 -Original Recipe. Even though he’s the hero in that Star Troopers movie.😆

[LexieLily]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Another plot line that I didn’t like that was also dropped was about Mitch. That line from Natalie as to why she couldn’t quit the election for the council because oh look! Mitch wasn’t a hero, but a coward!🙄🙄 I had hoped they would come back to that and learn that the men who survived had lied about that since Mitch, you know died and couldn’t defend himself.

@GHScorpiosRule, now that you bring up Mitch (and yes, I always hoped that Natalie would get her own spotlight mystery episode about Mitch, like Monk did about Trudy), what did you think of Natalie's parents?

For me, while Peggy and Bobby Davenport didn't actively abandon her like Jack Sr. did to the Monk boys they came across as the stereotypical rich parents that didn't want anything or anyone to come into their lives that they didn't approve of (well, Peggy did, Bobby was just there) and I understood why Natalie kept them at arms' length.   

Mitch's picture going up on the piano was just for show, I always thought, and it was going to come back down the second Natalie left.

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I guess that was Leland’s fear and we have to accept it even though it’s not the same at all.

He didn’t abandon his family and disappear from their lives. He’s still there. Unless he planned to do the same as Jack, the same thing wouldn’t have happened.

You're right that the situations aren't the same, and sure, we know that Leland would never dare do such a thing to his sons. But fears aren't always logical, and even so, I think it was more the distance in and of itself he feared might happen with his sons than anything else. Maybe he was afraid that as they got older they might side more with his mom or hold some resentment towards him for the divorce, and that might contribute to their relationship falling apart. Again, not the same thing as Monk's dad just up and leaving altogether, no, but still, the distance itself that resulted, and seeing just how long it took before Monk and his dad even saw each other again in and of itself...yeah, I can see where that aspect would rattle Leland a little. Situations don't always have to be the same for some element of it to bother someone. 

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Another plot line that I didn’t like that was also dropped was about Mitch. That line from Natalie as to why she couldn’t quit the election for the council because oh look! Mitch wasn’t a hero, but a coward!🙄🙄 I had hoped they would come back to that and learn that the men who survived had lied about that since Mitch, you know died and couldn’t defend himself.

I would've loved some further backstory on that, too, yes! It would've been interesting to get a little deeper glimpse into Natalie's relationship with Mitch and the fallout from his death. Plus, it'd be a great way to compare and contrast her and Monk's respective situations - they each lost someone tragically, there's a lot of mystery and unresolved answers about their spouses' deaths...that could've made for a good episode/storyline in and of itself. And if Natalie managed to finally get closure about Mitch, then that might've helped give Monk more hope that someday he'd get closure regarding Trudy. 

[kathyk24]

On 8/19/2021 at 10:27 PM, andromeda331 said:

I completely agree. I absolutely hate storylines where everyone is telling someone to give the parent who abused and/or abandoned them another chance. No Adrian does not have to give the parent who abandoned him another chance. Jack had his chance. He's had decades worth of chances and he chose not to. Adrian has every right not to see him and I wish he had stuck to his guns too. People like Jack don't deserve chances. Everyone knew how much it messed up Adrian and Ambrose when he left. They should have completely agreed with Adrian. 

I mentioned Jack Monk in the Worst Parents thread. I hate characters who start new families after abandoning their older children. It's possible that there were scheduling conflicts and that's why we never saw Jack Sr and Jr. again. I wanted to see Ambrose confront Jack. I hated that Monk gave up being a cop after he had that goal for the entire series it was bad writing. Natalie had Julie to raise so she couldn't afford to break down. We saw that Monk had OCD since childhood but Trudy's death made him depressed as well.

[shapeshifter]

Meeting with his estranged father was probably the only way Monk was going to get over his childhood belief that it was his (young Adrian’s) fault that his father left. This is a common belief among children of divorce, so a relatable theme for an episode.

My oldest daughter sought out her father as an adult and developed valued relationships with him and his family. She said her father told her that he “wished he had done things differently.” It’s not like he makes any effort in the relationship, but when she visits him and his extended family, they welcome her.  
So Monk’s meeting his father seemed realistic to me.

[Annber03]

That's a good point, @shapeshifter. I liked the whole premise of Monk meeting his dad in and of itself - I agree with you that it can help bring closure, and for Monk's sake, if he got that, then good. 

I do understand the issue with other people trying to pressure him into reconnecting, though, especially since he was clearly not eager to do so at first. And I also get the issue people have with how so many shows have these kinds of reunions end happily, when that may not always be the case with people who have strained/distant relationships with their parents. It would be interesting to see more shows where someone does reconnect with a parent that up and left the family years ago, and it doesn't end with them resolving their differences.

13 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

I hated that Monk gave up being a cop after he had that goal for the entire series it was bad writing.

That one didn't bother me - I was a bit surprised when I first saw the episode and it ended as it did, but it also made sense to me why he gave it up. The times had changed, the way of doing things had changed, the people he worked with had changed. It wasn't what he thought it'd be, so it made sense he'd become rather disillusioned with everything. Hell, there'd been many moments throughout the series where Monk considered giving up his current job of consulting, because there was something or other about it that was leaving him dissatisfied. So I can see him having that same attitude towards going back to being a cop, too.

I think it also frustrated him that once he rejoined the force, he had to be more careful about calling out cops for potentially shady behavior. There'd been moments throughout the series that referenced him doing his part to hold bad cops accountable back when he was on the force originally, and his doing so always seemed to cause him and the department some kind of issues in the process. So going back into that world and seeing that he has to deal with those issues yet again...yeah. That would bother him.

Basically, he had two main goals throughout the series: solving Trudy's murder, and getting back on the force. And while it would've been great to see him get all of what he wanted, I think it's also more realistic that one of those goals didn't work out quite the way he'd wanted and hoped. 

[LexieLily]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

That one didn't bother me - I was a bit surprised when I first saw the episode and it ended as it did, but it also made sense to me why he gave it up. The times had changed, the way of doing things had changed, the people he worked with had changed. It wasn't what he thought it'd be, so it made sense he'd become rather disillusioned with everything. Hell, there'd been many moments throughout the series where Monk considered giving up his current job of consulting, because there was something or other about it that was leaving him dissatisfied. So I can see him having that same attitude towards going back to being a cop, too.

I think it also frustrated him that once he rejoined the force, he had to be more careful about calling out cops for potentially shady behavior. There'd been moments throughout the series that referenced him doing his part to hold bad cops accountable back when he was on the force originally, and his doing so always seemed to cause him and the department some kind of issues in the process. So going back into that world and seeing that he has to deal with those issues yet again...yeah. That would bother him.

Basically, he had two main goals throughout the series: solving Trudy's murder, and getting back on the force. And while it would've been great to see him get all of what he wanted, I think it's also more realistic that one of those goals didn't work out quite the way he'd wanted and hoped. 

I always thought of Monk's longstanding desire to get reinstated not as something he wanted so much as far as being a detective itself (in the early years maybe but as the years went on we saw that he was happy with the status quo), but in being reinstated he would go back to being a cop and thus "be the man Trudy fell in love with." Didn't he say as much to Kroger?

And when he finally did get his badge back there was a lot of changes and red tape that he might not have remembered being there before. He didn't have Natalie at his side and he wasn't working with Leland or Randy. Leland didn't seem surprised at the end when Monk ultimately gave his badge back, almost like he expected all along that this would be the final outcome. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

I always thought of Monk's longstanding desire to get reinstated not as something he wanted so much as far as being a detective itself (in the early years maybe but as the years went on we saw that he was happy with the status quo), but in being reinstated he would go back to being a cop and thus "be the man Trudy fell in love with." Didn't he say as much to Kroger?

And when he finally did get his badge back there was a lot of changes and red tape that he might not have remembered being there before. He didn't have Natalie at his side and he wasn't working with Leland or Randy. Leland didn't seem surprised at the end when Monk ultimately gave his badge back, almost like he expected all along that this would be the final outcome. 

Yeah, it was almost a "what would the dog do with  the car if he caught it?" situation. I think Leland knew Monk would be out of his depth but much like Dorothy Gale, he had to find out for himself. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by peacheslatour

[Browncoat]

I watched the one this morning where Monk meets Natalie, and I can say with great confidence that goldfish can and do live at least seven years.  There was an adult goldfish at my current job when I started in 2013, and it lived until the middle of last summer.

[Bastet]

I had a goldfish of some sort that lived many years (and only died when it did because our neighbor forgot to feed it while we were gone).  I don't remember how long it lived, but maybe six years?  We all marveled at it.  (And, no, my parents were not replacing it every year like Natalie.)

[shapeshifter]

Regarding gold fish lifespan, here's the long and the short of it: 
https://www.itsafishthing.com/goldfish-lifespan/
Basically, they can live to age 45😲
but often don't live more than 1 year because of how humans care for them. 😥

So, here's another example of how every episode of Monk has at least one thing that cannot be true --which I suspect serves to throw us off the trail of the culprit, and also to signify that this is comedy as well as drama.

Edited August 23, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I always thought of Monk's longstanding desire to get reinstated not as something he wanted so much as far as being a detective itself (in the early years maybe but as the years went on we saw that he was happy with the status quo), but in being reinstated he would go back to being a cop and thus "be the man Trudy fell in love with." Didn't he say as much to Kroger?

And when he finally did get his badge back there was a lot of changes and red tape that he might not have remembered being there before. He didn't have Natalie at his side and he wasn't working with Leland or Randy. Leland didn't seem surprised at the end when Monk ultimately gave his badge back, almost like he expected all along that this would be the final outcome. 

Oh, that's an excellent point, too. Yes. I think that makes perfect sense. And indeed, the fact that he got reinstated before he solved Trudy's murder may have also factored into why things didn't work out with that - yes, he wanted to return to the force, but between getting his job back and figuring out who killed his wife, we know which option would've been most important to him. And going back to being a cop while still having that particular case hanging over his head would've naturally added to his struggle to do his job, because it was her death and the lack of any answers that made him lose his job in the first place. Maybe, had he solved Trudy's murder and then rejoined the force, things might've played out a little differently? 

Appreciate the info on the fish as well. My family had a couple fish at one time, one of which was a goldfish. I can't remember exactly how long the goldfish lasted, but I don't think it was a very long time. The other fish lasted for a while, though. 

On the note of fish, there's that one Christmas episode where Natalie and Julie get Monk a fish for Christmas, and we never see it again after that. Would've been kind of fun to see him trying to take care of a fish. He could've had Julie help him :D. 

[Bastet]

18 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So, here's another example of how every episode of Monk has at least one thing that cannot be true --which I suspect serves to throw us off the trail of the culprit,

But that wasn't the case with the fish (like @Browncoat, I happened to watch Natalie's first episode this morning, so I know far more detail than I normally would), a detail later proving untrue as a means of revealing the culprit after having diverted the characters' and viewers' attention.  This was the much more common example of misstating or exaggerating a "fact" as a foundation for the plot.

Here, the plot required the museum's tour guide to hide the moon rock in something that would be carried out by an unchecked visitor, since employees were being searched.*  So he stashed it in an aquarium kit (which included a similar-looking rock), marked the box, and arranged for his accomplice to buy that one, but Julie foiled the plan.

So, Julie needs to have a fish so that she'd buy this kit on a field trip.  And to establish Natalie as a great widowed mom, we need to learn she's been secretly replacing the dead fish (how fortuitous that she always happens to spot the dead fish and replace it before Julie notices - or maybe she just flushes the living fish annually after procuring one to replace it, ew) so Julie can hold onto the last thing her dead dad ever gave her.

And Monk needs to hear this story, and opt to save the fish, so "all men are liars" Natalie will decide Monk did what only Mitch would have also done, and be so charmed she'll accept the job as his assistant and launch us into phase two of the series.

That goldfish can actually live well beyond the average wasn't ultimately a plot point; in fact, it was never even acknowledged as true.  The lifespan declaration wasn't a means of distracting the audience away from who did it, but simply as shoring up the denouement where everyone converges on the science fair.

*They never wrote themselves out of a corner on this one, where they made a point of - in the "here's what happened" recap - him being there so long he knew security procedures and vulnerabilities like the back of his hand -- yet somehow had to improvise with the whole gift shop/accomplice thing when it turned out employees were being searched upon exit.

Flaws aside, it was interesting to revisit after all this time, and see how Monk and Natalie each eventually wanted to work together under the circumstances; the transition from one character to another was rather well done, positioning Natalie as neither the anti-Sharona or Sharona v.2.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Bastet

[chessiegal]

I saw an episode recently where someone sang "My Sharona" and said I guess you get that a lot. Her very dry sarcastic reply of no, that's a first was hilarious. Ricky Nelson wrote a song about a girl with my name, and I get the same comment all the time. I guess if someone I didn't like did it, I'd probably give Sharona's reply. I usually just roll my eyes.

[shapeshifter]

8.13 "Mr. Monk Is the Best Man" is airing on the CW.

I loved when the florist tried figuring out everyone’s “floral soulmate,” and, after suggesting for Monk first a thistle, and then a cactus, she finally offered him a ballpoint pen with a plastic flower on it, and Monk smiled and said he loved it.

I also really appreciated during this rewatch how Randy (Jason Gray-Stanford) played that musical instrument during the wedding rehearsal. 

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

8.13 "Mr. Monk Is the Best Man" is airing on the CW.

I loved when the florist tried figuring out everyone’s “floral soulmate,” and, after suggesting for Monk first a thistle, and then a cactus, she finally offered him a ballpoint pen with a plastic flower on it, and Monk smiled and said he loved it.

I also really appreciated during this rewatch how Randy (Jason Gray-Stanford) played that musical instrument during the wedding rehearsal. 

I love this episode for a lot of reasons but one of the low-key moments that made me laugh was when Randy was writing his song for Leland/TK and his proudly showing it off to Natalie.

It sounds like Light My Fire. / *disappointed sigh* What parts? / The music. And the words.

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I also really appreciated during this rewatch how Randy (Jason Gray-Stanford) played that musical instrument during the wedding rehearsal. 

Same :). And I like the bit with the guitar at the end, too. Even with the funny moment with his music that @LexieLily mentioned,  it was nice to see him getting to use his musical talents for such a special occasion like this. Says a lot about how much Leland cares about him, I think :). 

Another great moment in the episode, of course, is Monk's idea of a bachelor party :D. And on a sweeter note, I love the lengths Monk goes to ensure that he does not, under any circumstances, lose the wedding ring. It's touching to see him doing everything in his power to ensure that Leland's wedding happens, and how supportive he is of him and TK as a couple. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Annber03

[LexieLily]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Another great moment in the episode, of course, is Monk's idea of a bachelor party :D. And on a sweeter note, I love the lengths Monk goes to ensure that he does not, under any circumstances, lose the wedding ring. It's touching to see him doing everything in his power to ensure that Leland's wedding happens, and how supportive he is of him and TK as a couple. 

The bachelor party was...something, wasn't it? :D And Leland's reaction to Monk's idea of a best man speech which included the note that Leland had been married in college and had it annulled after five days. "Leland says 'I need a drink." Rofl. 

I loved, though, Leland's conversation with Monk asking him to be the best man, and making sure he was okay with him marrying TK, what with her name being Trudy and all :)

[Annber03]

41 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

The bachelor party was...something, wasn't it? :D And Leland's reaction to Monk's idea of a best man speech which included the note that Leland had been married in college and had it annulled after five days. "Leland says 'I need a drink." Rofl. 

I loved that there was a port-a-potty in the bathroom XD. And the pizza with absolutely nothing on it. 

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I loved, though, Leland's conversation with Monk asking him to be the best man, and making sure he was okay with him marrying TK, what with her name being Trudy and all :)

Yes :). And Monk's response: "Everyone should have a Trudy." <3.

[LexieLily]

8 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I loved that there was a port-a-potty in the bathroom XD. And the pizza with absolutely nothing on it. 

Guy at Bachelor Party: Monk, there's a bathroom in the bathroom.

Monk: Where do you expect me to put it, [Guy's Name], the kitchen?

[Door County Cherry]

On 8/19/2021 at 12:27 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think I only saw a couple episodes during its initial run and didn’t mind how he behaved with other people. Like the one where he was on the jury, for example. It was his treatment of and toward Sharona and Natalie that annoyed. And it’s all due to Shaloub’s talent that he gave Adrian such gravitas, layers, and yes, moments of laughter, that I don’t hate him.

I think what makes the show brilliant is because of how it treats Monk-as-a-jerk.  People around him don't coddle him too much.  They push back.  If nothing else, no one thinks it's cute.  

But the reason I think it really works is because of how both the show and Shaloub portray Monk as being in chronic, debilitating pain.  And sometimes people in chronic pain don't always treat people as well as they should.  There were moments where Monk would almost completely break and the pain was so obvious.  There were also the episodes, like when Monk joined the cult, when he was happier when he was seduced into believing he could just not think about his OCD.  

Even though it was never the absolute best thing for him, certain circumstances of those stories were terrific for his well being. 

[LexieLily]

If anyone here is part of the Monk forums on Reddit or even knows of its existence, there is an ongoing bracket game to find the best/favorite episode of Monk. The first round started a few days ago and voting is ongoing. If you want to play, search Monk reddit on Google. I don't know if we are allowed to post links to games here.

[peacheslatour]

15 hours ago, LexieLily said:

If anyone here is part of the Monk forums on Reddit or even knows of its existence, there is an ongoing bracket game to find the best/favorite episode of Monk. The first round started a few days ago and voting is ongoing. If you want to play, search Monk reddit on Google. I don't know if we are allowed to post links to games here.

Oh boy, they have a whole bunch of them!

[LexieLily]

8 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Oh boy, they have a whole bunch of them!

Ha, well, at 125 episodes, the first round is going to take awhile! :D

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I think the only thing that was really keeping him going was solving Trudy's murder.

Agreed. There's that one episode where he goes, "I'm not suicidal, I just wish I was never born. There's a difference." That says a lot about his mindset and struggle right there. 

But yeah, for as often as he claims he doesn't have a lot of friends, the show provided plenty of evidence to the contrary, given his relationships with the others, and how they deepened over time as the show went on. He was just too afraid of them leaving him, either through their own choice due to their being tired of him, or in a more tragic way, like with Trudy. So he tried to hold them at arm's length as a result much of the time. 

[kathyk24]

30 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Agreed. There's that one episode where he goes, "I'm not suicidal, I just wish I was never born. There's a difference." That says a lot about his mindset and struggle right there. 

But yeah, for as often as he claims he doesn't have a lot of friends, the show provided plenty of evidence to the contrary, given his relationships with the others, and how they deepened over time as the show went on. He was just too afraid of them leaving him, either through their own choice due to their being tired of him, or in a more tragic way, like with Trudy. So he tried to hold them at arm's length as a result much of the time. 

I think there was a choice by the writers to not give Monk more friends. There were episodes where someone was nice to him and they were never seen again. For example Monk and the Employee of the Month when he he helped his former partner and the college reunion episode when he reunited with Trudy's roommate. Trudy's parents seemed fond of him yet they were only in one episode. It's no surprise he was so dependent on the friends he was allowed to have.

[LexieLily]

8 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

I think there was a choice by the writers to not give Monk more friends. There were episodes where someone was nice to him and they were never seen again. For example Monk and the Employee of the Month when he he helped his former partner and the college reunion episode when he reunited with Trudy's roommate. Trudy's parents seemed fond of him yet they were only in one episode. It's no surprise he was so dependent on the friends he was allowed to have.

And the one time he did get a friend, Hal turned out to be a murderer that sought out Monk for friendship to manipulate him.

Hal was a lot of things, but he wasn't exactly wrong with what he said to Leland/Randy/Natalie about how they sometimes treated Monk.

The saving grace of that episode was Leland/Randy saving Monk at the eleventh hour and Leland smashing Hal against the wall, snarling at him to "stay away from my friend."

Edited September 3, 2021 by LexieLily

[LexieLily]

I always thought it was a nice little character-study tidbit of information that Leland was in a way responsible for Monk meeting both of his assistants. He found and hired Sharona for him, and he sent Natalie to Monk after he/Randy interviewed her during her home break-in.

[Annber03]

I didn't realize people had an issue with how she dressed, either. I too had no problem with her outfits. They fit with her overall character, the way everyone else's outfits and styles fit with their characters. 

Plus, some of her stuff was cute - I seem to recall a few jackets here and there that she wore that I rather liked :D. 

[LexieLily]

Melora Hardin (Trudy) is going to be on Dancing with the Stars, y'all. 

In my fantasy casting I wanted someone from the Core Four, but she'll do, I guess :p.

Edited September 8, 2021 by LexieLily

[Annber03]

19 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Melora Hardin (Trudy) is going to be on Dancing with the Stars, y'all. 

In my fantasy casting I wanted someone from the Core Four, but she'll do, I guess :p.

It'd be highly entertaining to see one of the main group on that show :D. I would enjoy that so much. 

[peacheslatour]

On 9/8/2021 at 11:55 AM, LexieLily said:

Melora Hardin (Trudy) is going to be on Dancing with the Stars, y'all. 

In my fantasy casting I wanted someone from the Core Four, but she'll do, I guess :p.

She also played a lunatic on The Office.

[LexieLily]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

She also played a lunatic on The Office.

So I've heard, ha. I wonder if they'll mention Monk on DWTS. The Office seems to be her 'main' claim-to-fame or at least the one people most know her by, but I'm one of the 10% of America who's never seen an episode of that show, so it doesn't mean anything to me that she was on there :-)

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

So I've heard, ha. I wonder if they'll mention Monk on DWTS. The Office seems to be her 'main' claim-to-fame or at least the one people most know her by, but I'm one of the 10% of America who's never seen an episode of that show, so it doesn't mean anything to me that she was on there :-)

She was also in one episode of Gilmore Girls as a shrink. Her character was really nice in that.

[chessiegal]

The writing on this show is so good. I love the little digs they give to their own show and industry. In "Mr. Monk and the TV Star", they have crazy fan Marci with a petition to change back the theme song. Then when they are visiting the studio, someone asks if a guy is famous, and the response was, no, he's a writer. He's nobody. 🤣 Casting Sarah Silverman as crazy Marci was a good fit.

[Salzmank]

Two random things that have come to mind as I’ve watched Monk in its new, replacing-Columbo time slot on MeTV:

1. Anyone else find the environmental activist’s death disturbing in “…and the Blackout”? For some reason that episode always seems to be on, and every time I watch it I think that murder by bulldozing a tree the victim is locked to (such a common method, there should be a word for it) is just such an awful way to go. Not sure why, maybe because of the inability to get away? That may be some relative of my claustrophobia speaking. ;)

2. “…and the Girl Who Cried Wolf.” Man oh man, this may just be the goofiest, least-convincing mystery I’ve ever seen. Monk’s solution doesn’t even explain half the mystery! I don’t viscerally dislike the ep as much as “…and the Red-Headed Stranger” because, well, everything about that one drove me up the wall, it was so off and mean-spirited. But “Cried Wolf” is just plain goofy, which is too bad because it’s by my favorite Monk writer (Hy Conrad).

[LexieLily]

56 minutes ago, Salzmank said:

2. “…and the Girl Who Cried Wolf.” Man oh man, this may just be the goofiest, least-convincing mystery I’ve ever seen. Monk’s solution doesn’t even explain half the mystery! I don’t viscerally dislike the ep as much as “…and the Red-Headed Stranger” because, well, everything about that one drove me up the wall, it was so off and mean-spirited. But “Cried Wolf” is just plain goofy, which is too bad because it’s by my favorite Monk writer (Hy Conrad).

I remember the setup of the bloodied-dead man that wrote the lipstick message on the mirror of the bathroom and hung himself and I just remembered thinking (a) that restaurant was going to have to shell out major money for therapy bills if any kid found them and (b) how the hell did he get down, get away and wipe away the message in the twenty or thirty seconds it took Sharona to get and bring back Monk?

And oh, good, I'm not the only one who doesn't like Red-Headed Stranger. One of the least-sympathetic murderers, IMO.

Edited November 16, 2021 by LexieLily

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

And oh, good, I'm not the only one who doesn't like Red-Headed Stranger. One of the least-sympathetic murderers, IMO.

I mainly didn't have any sympathy for her because she set up Willie Nelson.

[Annber03]

I like both "...Girl Who Cried Wolf" and "Red-Headed Stranger" as episodes, but mainly because I like the storylines going on with the main characters throughout, though I do think the case in "Wolf" is genuinely creepy. Yeah, it leaves some questions as to how the guy managed to get away so fast and whatnot, but I don't care, that scene with Sharona in the bathroom is genuinely unsettling to me. Just the idea that someone can be messing with you like that at all is unnerving. 

1 hour ago, Salzmank said:

1. Anyone else find the environmental activist’s death disturbing in “…and the Blackout”? For some reason that episode always seems to be on, and every time I watch it I think that murder by bulldozing a tree the victim is locked to (such a common method, there should be a word for it) is just such an awful way to go. Not sure why, maybe because of the inability to get away? That may be some relative of my claustrophobia speaking. ;)

For a show that was generally meant to be a more light-hearted take on the crime drama in a lot of ways, when you stop to think about it, some of these people's deaths really were pretty gruesome and horrifying. There's also the one with the guy who was attached to a car and got dragged to his death (we thankfully were spared seeing the aftermath, but the descriptions from those investigating the scene gave us a pretty good idea of how graphic his death was), and then there was the episode with Monk's birthday, with the guy who got caught in that compactor. 

The fact Monk tended to work cases that were unusual in nature makes a lot of those deaths even more disturbing, because then you have to think about how these criminals went out of their way to kill these people in such bizarre ways, and...yeah :/. 

[LexieLily]

14 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I mainly didn't have any sympathy for her because she set up Willie Nelson.

I didn't have (much) sympathy for her because her entire justification for murdering the guy was based on the claim that he drove-drunk and killed her parents and we have no idea if any of that was true. Even if it was she faked her blindness for at least a year and pre-meditated his murder for at least eighteen months.

[Salzmank]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

I remember the setup of the bloodied-dead man that wrote the lipstick message on the mirror of the bathroom and hung himself and I just remembered thinking (a) that restaurant was going to have to shell out major money for therapy bills if any kid found them and (b) how the hell did he get down, get away and wipe away the message in the twenty or thirty seconds it took Sharona to get and bring back Monk?

And oh, good, I'm not the only one who doesn't like Red-Headed Stranger. One of the least-sympathetic murderers, IMO.

On “…Cried Wolf”: Exactly!

On “…Red-Headed Stranger”: Yeah, we chatted about it a few pages back… That one is infuriating.

[LexieLily]

But, like @Annber03 said, I liked Wolf despite all of that because it was nice to have a Sharona showcase episode. Sharona even called Trevor to take Benjy because she thought she was losing her mind; was that supposed to foreshadow her eventually going back to him? The time Sharona saw Trevor before that she seemed resigned to knowing exactly what he was, a deadbeat loser that wasn't good for her or for Benjy.

[andromeda331]

On 11/16/2021 at 4:02 PM, LexieLily said:

But, like @Annber03 said, I liked Wolf despite all of that because it was nice to have a Sharona showcase episode. Sharona even called Trevor to take Benjy because she thought she was losing her mind; was that supposed to foreshadow her eventually going back to him? The time Sharona saw Trevor before that she seemed resigned to knowing exactly what he was, a deadbeat loser that wasn't good for her or for Benjy.

Maybe although I like to think that Sharona moved to help her mother with a health problem instead of remarrying Trevor. It was the reason she was away in Monk and the Game Show. They really should have went with that. It make so much more sense Sharona being a former nurse and had just been away for that reason an episode before. Maybe her mother had a relapse, got a diagnosis or health problem turned out to be more serious then they thought.