Fairy Tales For Millennials: The Feminism Behind The Man Mutton And Tummy Flowers

[Snarkette]

It's not just a musical and a dessert topping, it's also a feminist manifesto. Galavant is a hero only so much as he's a good looking jackass in a can used by the women around him as a nice dish of (gently used) man mutton. Despite his filling the title role, all the plot, seriousness, and power is held firmly by the women in this piece. At best, Gal (sic) is dragged along as slightly bemused eye candy whose greatest feats of traditional power include telling someone to fall down and succeeding in standing on his own two feet after an overly-hard work-out.

 

By the end of Episode 6, Madalena has made yet another step along the path towards becoming a Disney Evil Queen. Isabella has been playing her own game of Save-the-Kingdom. And despite their apparent menace, Gareth and (not-ben) Kingsley are yet defined only in terms of their relationships to Richard and how those relationships can be subverted by Madalena.

 

Even Chef cannot get a girl on his own.

 

Discuss.

[Guest]

I think by the end of episode 6, both Gareth and Galavant defined themselves in response to Madalena. Galavant decided not to be a boy toy.  Gareth chose loyalty over strength.

 

But I actually came in her to see what tummy flowers had to do with feminism because I thought the tummy flowers were an homage to a game Sheldon played of counter factuals on TBBT that resulted in a world where otters rule (South Park).

Edited January 24, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[SmithW6079]

It's not just a musical and a dessert topping, it's also a feminist manifesto.

 

Or it's a treatise on the duplicity of women and how they will debase and use the noblest of men.

[FurryFury]

Hmm, it's an interesting idea, I give you that. I haven't really thought about the show much, but I did notice the nice play with the trope when it comes to Madalena. Usually, the character in her position is either a helpless damsel in distress or a girl in love with the villain (way more rare). But here, Richard's the one dependent on her disposition. It's refreshing, and this is why I can't really root against her.

 

Isabella, however, is a much more classic trope  ("High Heel Face Turn, I believe, it is called on TVTropes), but softened by not being a bad girl in the first place, but rather being blackmailed. It's still kinda hard for me to like her, but she OK, I guess. Maybe I just don't love the actress.

[Snarkette]

But both female leads, Madalena and Isabella, don't need saving and the show doesn't want them to need saving.

 

They paid lip service to this in Isabella's song.

 

Gal is much more relaxed although he's still silly man mutton, he isn't nearly as self-centered as he started off last year. Yes, he's still fixated on heroing his girl out of danger, but *shrug*, he's awfully cute doing so and he was able to thank Richard for the lady's room in a way he might not have last year. But Isabella is, if anything, less capable. Sure she stole the key and is planning her escape but she's also a bit mopey over Gal and ticked off over the bad cell phone reception. This is the same woman who dueled him into submission during the montage training sequence. I'm cautiously displeased by this development.

 

As for Madalena, she remains ice-queen perfection and while one may be properly intrigued by 24-hour cancellation policies, one does not simper. Ever.

 

I'm keeping my eye on Gwynne to see if she continues to allow for female infanticide.

 

Isabella's mom is simply a lost cause.

[jhlipton]

 But Isabella is, if anything, less capable. Sure she stole the key and is planning her escape 

 Isabella is a LOT less capable.  She plans her escape, but needs the help of not one, but two men, and when she feels rejected by Gal, instead of striking out on her own, feels like being married to her 11 year old cousin is her only option.  She will spend at least the next episode doing nothing but looking out the window.  Yay.

 

Can you tell I'm pissed about this????

[HighQueenEB]

But Isabella is, if anything, less capable. Sure she stole the key and is planning her escape but she's also a bit mopey over Gal and ticked off over the bad cell phone reception. This is the same woman who dueled him into submission during the montage training sequence. I'm cautiously displeased by this development.

I'm not please either, and I am, by no means, a raging feminist in spite of having graduated from a woman's college.  It really bothers me, and I said this in the episode thread, that the show runners went with this particular storytelling trope.

 

 Isabella is a LOT less capable.  She plans her escape, but needs the help of not one, but two men, and when she feels rejected by Gal, instead of striking out on her own, feels like being married to her 11 year old cousin is her only option.  She will spend at least the next episode doing nothing but looking out the window.  Yay.

 

Can you tell I'm pissed about this????

I don't necessarily have a problem with how she plotted her escape.  She did approach Chef and Gwynne as a duo.  The problem with that particular scene, from a character POV, is that the Chef of season 1 never would have been the one to suggest sedating the guards.  That would have been all Gwynne.  It should have been Gwynne suggesting that they sedate the guards with the food during their evening meal in order to retrieve the key.  I take more of an issue with the complete whiplash that we got from Jester between his first scene where he basically told Isabella "suck it up and marry Harry" and then not only helping but validating her decision to escape. Again, it really should have been Gwynne who was helping her.  And Gwynne served absolutely no purpose, other than as eye candy, during the initial amulet connection scene.  Chef is the one who conveyed all of the critical information about Gareth siding with Madalena and them escaping to Hortensia.  I think the actual escape during the changing of the guards could have been a great deal funnier had it been Isabella, with Gwynne assisting, trying to avoid being sighted by Harry & Jester and/or her parents.  Had she failed in her escape plan, fine, but at least we wouldn't have been subjected to that awful "bad connection" scene. 

I think what bothers me most is that this isn't the Isabella we saw in season 1, not by a long shot.  It is appalling to me that she is being beaten down and torn apart in such an obvious, predictable "feminist" storytelling fashion.  She never needed to be broken down like this in order to attain her freedom.  I want my Isabella back.

[jhlipton]

I think the actual escape during the changing of the guards could have been a great deal funnier had it been Isabella, with Gwynne assisting, trying to avoid being sighted by Harry & Jester and/or her parents.  Had she failed in her escape plan, fine, but at least we wouldn't have been subjected to that awful "bad connection" scene. 

 

  I want my Isabella back.

 

That would have been awesome.  They could have still done the "missed connection" scene once she was recaptured -- not only has she failed t escape, her only other hope has abandoned her.   I don't want her mopey when everyone else is having fun.

 

Me too.

[HighQueenEB]

That would have been awesome.  They could have still done the "missed connection" scene once she was recaptured -- not only has she failed t escape, her only other hope has abandoned her.   I don't want her mopey when everyone else is having fun.

 

Me too.

I really don't think that they needed to do the "missed connection" scene.  It would have been enough to have had the Amulet of Valencia break before she and Galavant chatted and then she would have been mopey and uncertain of where she stood with him but not completely without hope with respect to their relationship.  The situation, with her being imprisoned and her parents adamant that she marry Prince Harry was hopeless enough without piling on the Galabella angst.

[betsyboo]

As for Madalena, she remains ice-queen perfection and while one may be properly intrigued by 24-hour cancellation policies, one does not simper. Ever.

 

hahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! "One Does Not Simper" is my new band name. HEEEEEEEEEE!

[Bruinsfan]

I'm really hoping Isabella comes out of her funk quickly and comes up with alternate motivation/plans to get out of her Hortensia Dream House on her own. Hell, I'd settle for a big "Get Me to a Nunnery" musical number rather than her meekly going along with marrying Prince Harry.

[HighQueenEB]

I'm really hoping Isabella comes out of her funk quickly and comes up with alternate motivation/plans to get out of her Hortensia Dream House on her own. Hell, I'd settle for a big "Get Me to a Nunnery" musical number rather than her meekly going along with marrying Prince Harry.

Oh, my gosh, THAT would be hilarious!  And not just because so many royal & noblewomen during that era did opt for the convent life rather than marriage.

[jhlipton]

I'm really hoping Isabella comes out of her funk quickly and comes up with alternate motivation/plans to get out of her Hortensia Dream House on her own. Hell, I'd settle for a big "Get Me to a Nunnery" musical number rather than her meekly going along with marrying Prince Harry.

 

And then she finds out that "nunnery" was a euphemism for a brothel (true story!) [but not for Hamlet, it seems]...

[ABay]

You could compare and contrast the way fairy tale tropes are used in Galavant, Once Upon a Time, and Grimm; discuss how Galavant subverts some tropes; the occasional injection of real medieval  life (only one daughter allowed, marrying children for dynastic alliances) as a reminder that fairy tales are from/about a time that was very unenchanting; Galavant's princesses in relation to princesses in fairy tales--they didn't all wait around to be rescued either, some used their wits to survive; mixing Arthurian legends with fairy tales--it seems to be becoming common lately. What sort of ideas were you toying with before you got stuck?

[jhlipton]

You could compare and contrast the way fairy tale tropes are used in Galavant, Once Upon a Time, and Grimm; 

The Once Upon  a Time vs Other Fairy Tales thread in  the OUaT forum, although long, might give you some ideas, as well.

[CooperTV]

On the other hand, Bobbi is portrayed as the only one of the three that's consistently competent. She's not just mooning over Richard.

 

Bobbi (as far as I watched) has like, two lines since her arrival? She's played by very charming and engaging actress that made the best out of it but still. Plus, competent woman/hapless man is bad trope all by itself, as much as I adore Richard and find him to be the best character of the show.

 

This season weirds me out with its treatment of female characters, is all I'm saying.

[ABay]

It's an unpopular opinion, but I didn't mind Isabella's enchanted tiara story-line. It seemed like a good metaphor for how girls are brainwashed into thinking their wedding/getting married is the ultimate achievement they can attain.

[Snarkette]

It might be worth exploring the loss of agency between S1 and S2 for the major female characters. Right now, Madalena has little to do other than to be in a (charming, yeah) romance plot whereas last year, she went from "thrice-a-day-more-or-less girl" to fearless Disney overlord of her own Kingdom. Isabella started as a bland princess with hidden skills of high competence, who maneuvered a self-interested lunkhead towards freeing her kingdom. This season, she mopes over being dumped. (There were a few hat tips to escape plans, but even then she depended on the big strong Chef Vincenzio and the Jester to save her.)

 

This season is adorable. I get that. I love Richard. I love the bromance. I fear Tad Cooper. I want to hug whoever came up with the forest of Coincidence.

 

But in terms of subverting expectations of strong women and fairy tales, it's failing badly. Instead, they're trying to explore the male emotional spectrum: best friends, father/son bonding, personal assistants, gay bars, the bro code, etc. all the way up to "your mother was a whore".

 

S1 was "Women take charge". S2 is "Men can belch"

[jhlipton]

Gwen & Isabella are portrayed much more innocently with their sexuality not really such a big part of their character.

 

As Snarkette says, Isabella in season 1 was highly capable and brimming wit sexuality.  This season, not so much...

 

But in terms of subverting expectations of strong women and fairy tales, it's failing badly. Instead, they're trying to explore the male emotional spectrum: best friends, father/son bonding, personal assistants, gay bars, the bro code, etc. all the way up to "your mother was a whore".

 

S1 was "Women take charge". S2 is "Men can belch"

 

 

Could be pandering for that 18 to 40 ratings.  The thing is, that kind of pandering rarely works (see Sleepy Hollow season 2 for an textbook example).  

Edited January 21, 2016 by jhlipton

[ABay]

Some fairy tales go back thousands of years. You might already have seen this story from Science News, nosleepforme, but in case not, and in case it might be interesting to you, here's a link. One of the 4 stories they think go back to Proto-Indo-European is Beauty & the Beast. Rumplestitlkin and the Devil & the Smith (?) are 2 of the others...I couldn't spot the name of the 4th.

Edited January 21, 2016 by ABay

[Snarkette]

In the end, I'm pleased that Isabella was kicking ass, taking names, and giving St Crispin's Day speeches (even if her costume was ridiculous) and that Madalena ended up defined by her insecurities and need for power more than her love for Gareth.

[HighQueenEB]

In the end, I'm pleased that Isabella was kicking ass, taking names, and giving St Crispin's Day speeches (even if her costume was ridiculous) and that Madalena ended up defined by her insecurities and need for power more than her love for Gareth.

Yes, all we need now is a S3 renewal so that Roberta can be developed as a character because, really, for a woman who was apparently as independent and able-bodied a fighter as she was when introduced, she was more than willing to run off to Spinster Island to live out her lonely days after she told Richard she thought he would die. 

[jhlipton]

In the end, I'm pleased that Isabella was kicking ass, taking names, and giving St Crispin's Day speeches (even if her costume was ridiculous) and that Madalena ended up defined by her insecurities and need for power more than her love for Gareth.

 

I love how she twisted the St Crispen's Day speech.  "We glorious few" indeed.  As for her costume, when she and Gary (LOL) came together, both in their armor, I was hoping for a "clank" as their chests met!

 

Also, Tad Cooper rocks!

Edited February 4, 2016 by jhlipton

[Bruinsfan]

When Isabella rode across the front of Hortensia's "army" clanking her sword against everyone's weapons, I half expected them all to be left holding nothing but the handles of kitchen utensils afterward.