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S01.E12: What The Little Bird Told Him


Tara Ariano
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Edward? Ballistics and baked goods aren't the way to Ms. Kringle's heart; start using that big brain and quit being creepy. You can be you and not creepy, right?

 

I think creepy is a hardwired setting for Eddie.  I wonder if Ms. Kringle will take his place as the exposition fairy when his sudden but inevitable betrayal occurs.  She's a likable character and I would rather that she survive him than be his victim.

 

 

Speaking of Bullock...he was underused, but I did appreciate that he's become the "observant" one of the pair. He comes across as a doofus, but he's much smarter than he looks.

 

Bullock deliberately plays into the bad cop/dumb guy stereotype, using it to his advantage.  I think Gordon is taking the opportunity to play into the tough cop scenario.  It comes off as faked, but I thought that was intentional, because it is an act, and he hasn't got it down yet.

 

Regarding Barbara's apartment, I think she thinks that Jim is there with someone else because of the phone call.  I think Jim thinks that it's her place and that she was waiting for him to leave.  Barbara seems like a nicer person when compared to her parents, but I would still like her to come to the realization that she's not cut out for a full time life with Jim and go back to her gallery.  She doesn't have to die, I'm just hoping there isn't some kind of romantic reconciliation in their future.

 

I am okay with the idea that Dr. Tompkins and Jim are openly interested in a relationship at this stage, but I was bothered by the idea that she stopped by the station on impulse.  The show doesn't need another impulsive - or temperamental - female character.  I would like her to be nice and level headed.  Hopefully she will be.

 

I liked that the dialed down the number of characters a bit in the past two episodes.  I think they can restrict themselves to a different mix of characters per episode, with Jim at the center.  They can leave out Barbara and and Penguin for an episode, and check back in with Bruce and Alfred, and then go back to the mob in the episode after that.  It's a good mix of characters, as long as they are not all in the same episode.

 

While Liza was able to take another young woman her size, she was caught unawares by someone she cares for, a man who outweighs her by a hundred pounds, and who has considerably more experience strangling people that she has in escaping.  She didn't have a chance.

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Hey, Miss Kringle is back!  And Nygma is still being a little creeper.  And, what was with this new cop played by Dash Mihok.  Another possible first victim for Edward? He's too recognizable of an actor for that small of a role.

Dash Mihok is playing Arnold Flass, a character from the comics.

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Is there a character currently on television who is beaten up more than Oswald?  I agree hearing him freak out when he's cornered is always a blast.

 

 

I love how he gets beaten up so much that when he comes in with electric burn marks all over his face Moroni doesn't even ask what happened. It's just assumed he takes a pasting on the regular, the little weirdo.

 

And speaking of weirdos; Show, if you dare try to take the "If only Kris had dated/been nicer to/found Nygma charming he wouldn't have 'gone bad'" route I will flip the fuck out. This is a guy, a grown man, who works for the police department, yet thinks handling a live round of ammo by pushing it into a cupcake and giving it to a coworker who has bluntly informed him in no uncertain terms that she does not find him cute and wants him to leave her the fuck alone is appropriate.

 

That is not cute, that is not funny, that is not awww, he watched Say Anything too many times. It's STALKING. It's terrorizing a woman who has had the apparent temerity not to decide that somebody who rummages through her workspace without her permission and smells her hair means she doesn't want to date him. When the director had her do the little inadvertent smiles at Nygma's riddles I wanted to flip my couch over. I really, really, really do not want the show to go there. It's insulting and beneath even the writers of Barbara "I Make Drugs And Lesbian Affairs Boring". 

 

Speaking of! I actually laughed at that scene with her and her parents, who are apparently on loan from American Horror Story. 

 

Creepy Mom: How are you, dear.

 

Barbara: I'm fine, thank you (I could really use some drugs.)

 

CM: Are you staying the weekend?

 

Barbara: I thought I might, thank you (God, drugs, drugs right now would be wonderful)

 

CM: And how is your policeman friend?

 

Barbara: He's fine, thank you (DRUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGSSSSSS).

 

I mean, too little too late character wise, maybe, but still hilarious.

Edited by Snookums
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And speaking of weirdos; Show, if you dare try to take the "If only Kris had dated/been nicer to/found Nygma charming he wouldn't have 'gone bad'" route I will flip the fuck out. This is a guy, a grown man, who works for the police department, yet thinks handling a live round of ammo by pushing it into a cupcake and giving it to a coworker who has bluntly informed him in no uncertain terms that she does not find him cute and wants him to leave her the fuck alone is appropriate.

That is not cute, that is not funny, that is not awww, he watched Say Anything too many times. It's STALKING. It's terrorizing a woman who has had the apparent temerity not to decide that somebody who rummages through her workspace without her permission and smells her hair means she doesn't want to date him. When the director had her do the little inadvertent smiles at Nygma's riddles I wanted to flip my couch over. I really, really, really do not want the show to go there. It's insulting and beneath even the writers of Barbara "I Make Drugs And Lesbian Affairs Boring".

First of all, there are a lot of men who creep out women simply because they're misguided. Doesn't excuse the actions, obviously, but not every man who creeps out a woman is a complete monster. So I see no problem with the show saying that Edward Nygma has good intentions, just poor execution, because at the very least it's realistic.

Second of all, it's a perfectly valid explanation for why someone becomes a criminal. Lots of men- and women- turn to crime because of an unrequited love, and I don't see why it's wrong for the show to use that storyline.

Third of all, the interactions with Kris Kringle are merely a part of the Nygma narrative- overall, this is a story where Nygma is being disrespected by everyone not just Kringle. Bullock is also very mean to him, as is the overbearing M.E., and we see far more of Nygma and Bullock than we do of Nygma and Kringle. If anything Bullock is going to be more likely to drive him over the edge, not Kringle.

Fourth of all- and more importantly- I don't believe the show is in any way trying to make Nygma sympathetic. We knew right from the start- in stark contrast to the other characters- that he's going to be The Riddler, so right away we know he's an evil dude. In that light, there's no reason to feel sorry for him, because we know he's not someone we're ever going to be sorry for. Sure, he's a well-intentioned “Nice Guy” who doesn't understand what he does is wrong, but since right from the start we're supposed to know that he's evil, there's no way for the show to at least intend to frame his actions as “right”.

I understand it's off-putting that there's the suggestion that “if only people were nice to Nygma, he wouldn't be evil”, but I think that because Nygma is so clearly oriented as a bad guy, I see nothing wrong with using the story. It's merely an explanation- perfectly valid too- for how a villain became a villain, nothing more.

If Nygma was supposed to be framed as a “good” character right from the start only to turn evil later then I might agree the storyline is off-putting, because then it's asking the audience to turn on the characters who were mean to the guy we were once rooting for. However, since Nygma has been framed as a bad guy right from the start, we're not supposed to root for him at all and thus the show is not saying at all that his thought process or course of action could in any way be “right”.

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While Liza was able to take another young woman her size, she was caught unawares by someone she cares for, a man who outweighs her by a hundred pounds, and who has considerably more experience strangling people that she has in escaping. She didn't have a chance.

I agree. I also think her best bet was in falcone not being able to do it or feeling sorry for her which is why she was looking at him - like she was pleading and apologizing through her expression. Maybe she thought struggling would have just made him angrier?

On Nygma, we aren't supposed to be rooting for him but I do think right now he is at a nerdy/creepy level and that people pick up on the creepy like kris of the stupid name, and don't want to be around him for that reason. But in the cops interactions with him, I also see an edge of bullying too. Although I don't so much from Gordon and I guess you could argue that bullocks style in general...

That cupcake thing was stupid and creepy but I don't think there was anything dangerous about bullets in a cupcake as oppose to a gun. I don't really care for the file clerk character because they aren't giving her anything to do but be repulsed by Nygma.

Edited by Shanna
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Was that the first time we've seen Falcone's mother? I found it interesting his scenes began with him remembering sitting on his "sainted mother's" lap and then ended with him killing her (in his mind) replacement. That pedestal he has her on just got higher.

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And speaking of weirdos; Show, if you dare try to take the "If only Kris had dated/been nicer to/found Nygma charming he wouldn't have 'gone bad'" route I will flip the fuck out. This is a guy, a grown man, who works for the police department, yet thinks handling a live round of ammo by pushing it into a cupcake and giving it to a coworker who has bluntly informed him in no uncertain terms that she does not find him cute and wants him to leave her the fuck alone is appropriate.

 

That is not cute, that is not funny, that is not awww, he watched Say Anything too many times. It's STALKING. It's terrorizing a woman who has had the apparent temerity not to decide that somebody who rummages through her workspace without her permission and smells her hair means she doesn't want to date him. When the director had her do the little inadvertent smiles at Nygma's riddles I wanted to flip my couch over. I really, really, really do not want the show to go there. It's insulting and beneath even the writers of Barbara "I Make Drugs And Lesbian Affairs Boring"

If it helps I don't think those smiles were to indicate that she found him interesting or that she liked him. In the main bullpen she could tell him in no uncertain term she wasn't interested and not be subtle about it since you know surrounded by cops. Alone in a cramped space? When he's supposedly paying her a compliment? I could see her thinking "Smile, smile just get past him, it'll be fine?"

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Bullock is also very mean to him, as is the overbearing M.E., and we see far more of Nygma and Bullock than we do of Nygma and Kringle. If anything Bullock is going to be more likely to drive him over the edge, not Kringle.

I think Bullock is more impatient with Ed than mean.  Bullock's the only one who consistently praises Ed when he's done something well.  He just doesn't really want to be friends - and Ed wants so desperately to be friends.

 

It's taken a while but  I feel like Gordon and Bullock are  beginning to feel like a team.  I loved the simplicity of the cup of water defeating the Mad Scientist Mastermind.

 

Speaking of! I actually laughed at that scene with her and her parents, who are apparently on loan from American Horror Story.

I can see where the writers would kind have been saving this family nightmare stuff, since it's the most interesting Barbara stuff so far.  How come we have yet to see her art gallery?

Edited by ratgirlagogo
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Barbara? While her parents seem Brittle (mom) and apathetic/indifferent (dad), part of that may have been due to wild child Barbara times. They may have been less uptight, but have come through Barbara's drugs 'n' booze era and are wary.  At least they didn't send her away. I do get the feeling that silver and jewelry will be counted daily, though.

That's the vibe I got as well.  You can love your children but I believe every parent has a breaking point where they'll cut their children off and not want them in their life.  I also believe they're super uptight rich folks that are extremely embarrassed by their wayward daughter.

 

You know, with the talk about Barbara's apartment, maybe she doesn't want to go where Jim supposedly took someone else. Depending on the timing, she may find something of The Duchess' if she does go back. (My timeline on the Duchess and Harvey being at the apartment may off.) "Hijinx" ensue.

I'd love to see the look on her face when she found one of Duchess' plus size unmentionables.

 

I knew Liza wasn't long for this world once she started down this path but I guessed wrong on who would end her.  I thought it would be Fish killing her off as a way of tying up a loose end.  In any case, I was surprised that it was Falcone that did the deed.  Also small props to Fish for at least making an attempt to stop Falcone. 

Edited by maczero
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The kiss...glad the show went for it so early, and it felt nice and real. I got the sense that Gordon saw Lee and realized she's his "escape" from all of the problems he has to deal with. I'm not like others and see an awful lot of chemistry between McKenzie and Morena Baccharin, but I thought at least we got some sparks, with something definitely to build on.

 

 

        From my POV, Jim was suprised at having strong feelings for another woman.

 

        So soon after  things went south with Barbara.

 

        That's the vibe I got, when he pulled back after the first kiss.

 

        The look he gave her, then just simply giving in to it and the second

         liplock was more passionate and intense. Whatever this develops into,

         it won't be a casual fling.

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I really am into this show.  I've also been madly in love with Morena Baccarin since she was a regular in Firefly back in 2002.  She was stunning then and still is.  I agree with everyone about the kiss.  After the sudden first move by Gordon, the mutual follow up, as brief as it was, definitely was up there among best TV smooches (Castle and Beckett, when it finally happened, may be at the top of the list).  Too bad it was interrupted by the uniformed cop. It might have gone on for quite some time.

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That is not cute, that is not funny, that is not awww, he watched Say Anything too many times. It's STALKING. It's terrorizing a woman who has had the apparent temerity not to decide that somebody who rummages through her workspace without her permission and smells her hair means she doesn't want to date him. When the director had her do the little inadvertent smiles at Nygma's riddles I wanted to flip my couch over.

 

^This.  Nygma has no boundaries, and he is fixated on Kris, who has made it abundantly clear that his advances are not welcome.  That they are co-workers compounds the problem, because Kris cannot avoid him.  I like Cirien's interpretation of her smiling - just trying to get through the moment and not make waves.  In a proper system he should have been reported, then received a reprimand and counseling in order to retain his job.

 

I can believe that Kris's failure to respond to him would be a contributing factor in Nygma's tranformation, but I would strongly object if anyone on the show, including Kris herself, blames her for what he becomes.  Nygma is responsible for himself and his own actions.  He's not a heart-broken teenager with no previous experience with rejection.  How many other women has he intimidated and unnerved?

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^This. Nygma has no boundaries, and he is fixated on Kris, who has made it abundantly clear that his advances are not welcome. That they are co-workers compounds the problem, because Kris cannot avoid him. I like Cirien's interpretation of her smiling - just trying to get through the moment and not make waves. In a proper system he should have been reported, then received a reprimand and counseling in order to retain his job.

I can believe that Kris's failure to respond to him would be a contributing factor in Nygma's tranformation, but I would strongly object if anyone on the show, including Kris herself, blames her for what he becomes. Nygma is responsible for himself and his own actions. He's not a heart-broken teenager with no previous experience with rejection. How many other women has he intimidated and unnerved?

I get the sense that in Gotham, reporting anyone would be so bogged down by bureaucracy that it wouldn't be worth it. Some shows, their lack of a HR department is astonishing, but in Gotham, I'd believe it. Who's Kris Kringle going to report things to, and why would anyone believe her? She's nothing on the food chain. Edward Nygma is a talented forensic scientist- if anything their superiors would always defend him because he's more crucial to the cause than Kringle is.

Harsh, but that's Gotham for you.

As for the other point about Nygma and rejection- well, we don't know yet if all of his loves have been unrequited. They may have been, because I'd have a hard time believing someone who thinks putting a bullet into a cupcake is a heartwarming gift could have ever secured a girlfriend, but you never know. I will agree that if the show truly *does* try to make Kringle or Bullock or anyone else who was mean to him feel sorry for themselves for creating The Riddler it'd be wrong, but I trust this show. So far, nothing Nygma has done has meant to portray him as sympathetic, so I doubt we'll get that outcome.

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This episode was pretty engaging.  Though I kind of wish they slowed things down a little.  For all that build-up, it's a little anti-climatic to expose the Liza thing in some random January episode.  Same with letting Gordon leave Arkham already after one episode.  I would also have liked a bit more build to Gordon/Doctor... I don't want to see him jumping into another relationship already.  I hope it will be casual dating for a long time, since you know there's still going to be back and forth with Barbara, and so much flip-flopping early in a series could result in this being tiresome by mid-Season 2.  

 

I loved Barbara's parents, especially her Mom.  I miss Bruce.

 

I know Gordon is a good guy but it would have been better in the long-run if he just let Maroni be killed by the Electrocutioner.  Still, he is so easy to root for.

Edited by Camera One
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Barbara's parents, talk about ice cold.

 

If I had a daughter like Barbara, I'd be ice cold, too.  

 

It's taken a while but  I feel like Gordon and Bullock are  beginning to feel like a team.

"Jim, the Commissioner wants to see you."

Bullock thinks to himself, "Whew, I dodges that one!"

"You, too, Bullock!"

"Damn!!!!!"

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I get the sense that in Gotham, reporting anyone would be so bogged down by bureaucracy that it wouldn't be worth it. Some shows, their lack of a HR department is astonishing, but in Gotham, I'd believe it. Who's Kris Kringle going to report things to, and why would anyone believe her? She's nothing on the food chain. Edward Nygma is a talented forensic scientist- if anything their superiors would always defend him because he's more crucial to the cause than Kringle is.

I'd put money that Essen would reprimand Nygma.  Essen may back down from her superiors and mobsters, but Nygma is someone I could definitely see her giving hell for stepping out of line.

 

Probably not at this time, but I wonder who would win in a comparison between this Penguin and Ben Linus of Lost?

If we're talking combat, then Ben Linus would definitely kick Penguin's ass.  The guy was a fairly competent fighter.  Not to mention, a lot of times Ben wouldn't mind taking a beating if there was some greater objective he wanted to achieve.  Penguin gets his ass kicked as a result of poor choices.

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I'd put money that Essen would reprimand Nygma. Essen may back down from her superiors and mobsters, but Nygma is someone I could definitely see her giving hell for stepping out of line.

Yeah, but I could see Nygma going to Essen's superiors, tell them how many cases he's solved, and they'd force Essen to reinstate him. Either that or GCPD actually does have a union (which I think Gotham would have). There has to be a reason why Essen hasn't acted already and I have to think that is it.

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Yeah, but I could see Nygma going to Essen's superiors, tell them how many cases he's solved, and they'd force Essen to reinstate him. Either that or GCPD actually does have a union (which I think Gotham would have). There has to be a reason why Essen hasn't acted already and I have to think that is it.

I'd bet that Kringle has never complained. Truthfully, in the real world I doubt Nygma would be fired at the first complaint but I can see Essen putting enough of a scare into him to leave her alone.

Edited by maczero
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I'd bet that Kringle has never complained. Truthfully, in the real world I doubt Nygma would be fired at the first complaint but I can see Essen putting enough of a scare into him to leave her alone.

I could see Essen doing that to, and I'd agree that Kringle likely hasn't officially complained. Like I said, I hold the reason for that would be her job title- she's just a “lowly” clerk, so she'd likely think that people like Essen (whom she'd likely only ever caught a glance of, since Essen barely leaves her office) won't listen to her, even if she actually would.

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I saw this episode online. I liked it, beginning to end. Like others, I am glad the show avoided the "will they or won't they" narrative between Gordon and the Doctor. Something about her, though, is too...mmm...perfect. Her character seems reasonably honorable, from what I have read online. But Gotham likes to drive home the point that everyone has a secret or a dark side. Or so it seems to me. I am looking forward to the inevitable meeting between her and Barbara.

 

I was sad to see Liza die. She obviously really started to like Don Falcone. His choking her was painful to watch, but at least he did it, and not Victor. Falcone shoulda killed Fish then and there, but then, it would remove a major player way too soon. She may get it in the season finale, though.

 

I like how they are developing Nygma. For just a minute, it seemed like Kringle, in a twisted way, enjoyed his riddle. But then The Beefcake Cop showed-up. And she had no issues saying Nygma creeped her out. I don't think he will kill her, but I think he will inflict some serious psychological damage on her.

 

I like Robin Lord Taylor's Penguin. He makes you wanna root for the bad guy. Great this episode, as all previous.

 

Barbara's parents have Arctic Circle personalities. Cold. 'Nuff said.

 

Gruber's end was a bit disappointing. Let's see what happens with him going forward.

 

Missed Bruce, Alfred, and Cat.

 

All told, 3.85 stars out of 5, en mi libro.

Edited by DeepRunner
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Ew, Barbara.  I'd been wishing we were rid of her.  Frankly I don't feel even a little bit sorry for her, horrible parents or not.

 

Maroni is not half as smart as he should be.  Why would he EVER let Penguin know what he heard.  

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I am sad to say that I was bored. I couldn't care less about the Falcone/Fish battle for power, and since that's 50% of the show, it leaves me cold. I find Jada Pinkett Smith very entertaining, but I don't care at all for John Doman.

Without the developing Batman and other familiar junior supervillains, this is just another cop show, with extra angst.

It's sad when I find Arrow more entertaining these days, and I am one who really dislikes Laurel Lance.

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Maroni is not half as smart as he should be.  Why would he EVER let Penguin know what he heard.

 

I also didn't expect Fish to be so dumb as to let Falcone go off quietly into the night.  As if it wouldn't come back and bite her ass eventually, even if she had "succeeded".

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I agree the kiss was hot and Jim in a wife beater... hella hot. That is one sexy man in a brooding too serious kinda way. I'm glad they kissed and got it over with but her whole "I don't know why I'm here" act kinda annoyed me. You're a grown-ass woman interested in a man... just come out with it instead of playing that coy shit. 

Edited by Bandolero
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I've got a theory about the writers' making the voodoo doll so crucial to the plot.

On first blush, it seemed out of character for a control freak, long-term-planning, scientist guy like Gruber to ask Arkham's witchy woman to create a voodoo doll. And since it was this doll that set Gordon on the trail that allowed him to bait a trap for Gruber, I initially thought the writers were being a little sloppy just to advance the plot.

Then I realized what having otherwise-scientific Gruber order up a voodoo doll told us about the world in which Gotham takes place:

Criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot.

And I just love that.

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I've got a theory about the writers' making the voodoo doll so crucial to the plot.

On first blush, it seemed out of character for a control freak, long-term-planning, scientist guy like Gruber to ask Arkham's witchy woman to create a voodoo doll. And since it was this doll that set Gordon on the trail that allowed him to bait a trap for Gruber, I initially thought the writers were being a little sloppy just to advance the plot.

Then I realized what having otherwise-scientific Gruber order up a voodoo doll told us about the world in which Gotham takes place:

Criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot.

And I just love that.

I wish I could rec this 1000 times!

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Criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot.

True, but cops in the world of Gotham (which even in the timeless Expressionism of the show is some kind of ur-NYC, where cops  are overwhelmingly Irish and Italian) are superstitious too.  Cowardly, well, let's just leave that one be. But superstitious for sure - and I also thought that anything involving voodoo and magic would freak out cops as much as robbers.

Edited by ratgirlagogo
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I knew Don Falcone would be angry, but I didn't expect him to lay his hands on Liza to re-assert his authority.  Penguin's misstep with Don Maroni after his almost electrocution felt laughable, but the gloating over Fish I do buy.

 

Barbara's parents are creepy too.  No wonder she's imbalanced.

I really hope there is some kind of follow-up next week which shows that Maroni's goons followed Penguin and confirmed that he wasn't going to see his mother. I want to see how he gets out of that one. 

 

Barbara's parents are weird. But I also think the casting was off, especially with her mother. I mean how old is Barbara supposed to be. If I didn't know what was going on I wouldn't be sure if she was having tea with her mother or her grandmother.

Wonder what his "sainted mother" would think of how he turned out but it's not that important, lol.

Have we had any hint that Falcone has ever been married/has any kids? I have read The Long Halloween a bunch of times, and I would love to see Alberto Falcone show up at some point. 

 

Good episode.  I liked the Electrictioner threat although it was resolved way too quickly.

I kind of liked that. In this episode Jim was obviously the B plot with the Falcone stuff being more important. 

 

If Arkham Asylum is anything like most Batman Arkhams Gruber will be out in about a week, a month tops. I think Gruber was intended to be a bit Electrocutioner and a bit Hugo Strange rolled up into one since they can't actually use either of those characters on this show as they're post Batman characters, much like they had Richard Sionus play Black Mask instead of Roman Sionus.

Not sure he would be sent back to Arkham. The only reason he was in Arkham was because he was originally in prison and he was able to bribe/trick some prison people to get him transferred. This episode makes me think he is a regular criminal not someone who should be in an Asylum.

 

 She was stunning then and still is.  

She really is. I mean how could anyone convert to being a terrorist while being married to someone who looks like that (Stupid Brody).

 

How was Aaron beat unconscious so easily?

 

I bought that. I mean he was fighting Jim who is a soldier/cop who has training and experience in hand to hand fighting. The guy he was fighting was yes stronger, but also a slow moving mindless Frankenstein type. In that case I think Jim would have a pretty big advantage.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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...Is there a character currently on television who is beaten up more than Oswald?...

 

 

Probably not currently but I believe that Jim Rockford still holds the men's free-style 'getting the crap kicked out of him' title to this day.

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Have we had any hint that Falcone has ever been married/has any kids? I have read The Long Halloween a bunch of times, and I would love to see Alberto Falcone show up at some point.

Now there's a thought.  I don't think it's been brought up.  I suspect with Liza in the house he isn't currently married.

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