Once Upon A Time In Wonderland - General Discussion

[justcris]

I really disliked the pilot for OUATIW but I stuck with it and in the end, I quite enjoyed the show. I thought it was better paced and plotted than the last couple of seasons of the mother show.

 

I'm very curious about what they are going to do with the Knave in OUAT. Will more characters from the spinoff appear or is it just him??

[HoodlumSheep]

I would love for the other characters to make an appearance, especially Jafar and Ana.

I loved Wonderland start to finish. I know some people think it started slow, and that's fine, but the pace never really bothered me. The cgi wasn't too much of problem for me either. it was part of the show's charm and it was to be expected because they probably had an even smaller budget than the main show (or all of it was spent on advertising for the premiere. It doesn't take much to make me happy (i love ridiculously cheesy things:aka the hallmark channel, Because they just make me smile).

I'm not ashamed of loving this show to pieces. it had it's flaws, but the main show does as well. The pace picked up by episode 4/5, which is 1/2 episodes past the "3 eps then drop it" mentality that some people go by when picking up new shows.

I personally though the cgi got better near the end, or at least felt like they didn't rely on it as heavily in the back half of the season. But maybe I'm remembering it wrong since it's been months since I last saw it.

I thought the story was well handled, and here was a clear goal in mind for the end. Things actually happened in each episode that progressed the story towards its finished, which is where I feel Wonderland sort of eclipsed Once at the moment. I think Once was taking on Neverland during that time, and there was a lot of walking around in circles. I loved Neverland to bits, but it needed to be slightly better paced. The middle episodes of the half season format tend drag a little in my opinion.

Onward to the characters:

My heart just wants to explode from all the love I have for these characters! It's funny, because I never expected myself to get so attached to these characters. I liked having a smaller core cast. It worked to their advantage. How would I describe them??? It's like when you are in school. Depending on how things got shuffled from semester to semester, ( or trimester in my case) you could end up in a class of nearly 30 or in a class of 10. Wonderland was the class of 10 and Once is the class of 30. A smaller class is far less chaotic, there's a far greater chance of having deeper discussions about subject matter, you get to know your other classmates better, typically get to have more fun, and the atmosphere is totally relaxed. Basically it was like having a mini family in school of all places. That's what the Wonderland cast felt like. I didn't really realize how much they had grown on me until I found myself literally crying tears of joy during the finale. And yes, I am admitting to bawling like a baby. I'll get to talking about the finale at a later part though.

I'll go into more details about the rest of my feelings for Wonderland and the characters in a later post, (I'm taking a short shopping trip), so hopefully it won't take too long. And sorry for the long school comparison mumbo jumbo. And sorry for the feelings explosion!

I'll be back!

[Writing Wrongs]

I'm pissed that we don't get a blu/dvd set. Dracula and Crossbones get one, but not Wonderland? That's messed up.

[KingOfHearts]

From the Once Upon a Time forums:

 

Interesting... Would you care to elaborate in the Wonderland thread???

The mileage varies, but I enjoyed the Red Queen and her romance with Will. I didn't like that she became basically powerless toward the end, right before she got murdered by Jafar. I had high hopes she'd use magic to help save the day, but she ended up dead then enslaved. All her posh attitude when she worked for Jafar all turned out to be fluff. She became a worthless damsel in distress.

 

Her kiss with Will followed by her death was awesomely dramatic I must say, though. The parent show hasn't had an epic death like that since Graham's in S1. I was pretty upset when they killed her off, but I was happy when she got ressurected.

Edited October 16, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

I too, am sad that Wonderland hasn't released a dvd set. It doesn't have to be fancy...

Anyways, onwards to some of the characters.

I'll start by saying I don't think I've loathed a character on any tv show ever. My scale goes from "likes/sort of bland" to "love"

Alice was a kick butt action girl though a little bland. I still enjoyed her though. She was smart and resourceful and I loved her relationship with Will and Cyrus. I think one of her main flaws for me was that she kind of had a one-track mind that involved rescuing Cyrus. I wish her personality could have been fleshed out a bit more.

I enjoyed Cyrus. I know there were a lot of people that consider both cyrus and alice bland, but I didn't think he was bad at all. I've been cursed with always loving the "bland/boring" characters the most. I can see why his character wouldn't make for the most exciting tv to watch, but I typically find that these sort of characters would be the people you'd want to have as a friend or whatever in real life. But that's just my opinion. To me, Cyrus had wisdom beyond his years which I think comes from him actually learning from his past mistakes involving his mother and brothers. He was also a pretty smart character too. I loved his dynamic with the red queen, even though the didn't have many scenes together, and I can easily see them becoming good friends. I also enjoyed his relationship with the sultan.

I thought Cylice were good for each other. I thought they were cute. When you think about it, i think they are probably the most unique established couple on both shows (mainly because of how their love story began). Alice and Cyrus are the only couple that I would consider having been true love at first sight. Whereas Snowing, CS, OQ, etc. all sort of began on the wrong foot. There was immediate attraction, but the true love didn't come until later. Alice and Cyrus just took one look at each other and wham! True love! They also talked out their problems.

I loved Will too, which I've already explained somewhat in the Once thread. He was goofy and fun. I loved him with Ana as well. Scarlet Queen forever! I've mentioned my immense love for the Knalice brotp as well. They will probably reign forever supreme as THE BEST Brotp in the Once universe (sorry Captain Charming).

I felt the weakest character in the series was the white Rabbit. I felt bad about his family situation and getting bullied, but I wish he would of stood up for himself. He kind of stayed cowardly 'til the end. :( also, it's lucky that not many people seem to be aware of his dimension hopping abilities. I can't remember if he can go anywhere, or if it's strictly between wonderland and the real world. The queen of hearts was after him at one point, but i don't think cora was pursuing him relentlessly. And I figured Rumple didn't go after him because Wonderland was Cora's territory, or it just wasn't according to prophecy.

Sorry for the essay, but there will be more coming. I've been waiting to discuss Wonderland since it first began. I should of joined the forum sooner:(

[jhlipton]

I disliked Jafar especially when he became so powerful he defeated the Jabberwock -- the most powerful, evil creature EVAH, without breaking a sweat.  I think I'd rather have him than yet ANOTHER return of Cora.  I wouldn't mind having Ana, but not the Red Queen, join OUAT.  RQ was just Regina-lite, and I liked the more natural-looking make-up on Ana.

[HoodlumSheep]

I disliked Jafar especially when he became so powerful he defeated the Jabberwock -- the most powerful, evil creature EVAH, without breaking a sweat. I think I'd rather have him than yet ANOTHER return of Cora. I wouldn't mind having Ana, but not the Red Queen, join OUAT. RQ was just Regina-lite, and I liked the more natural-looking make-up on Ana.

I liked Jafar, but it's totally cool if you didn't. I personally hope he comes the mother show at some point. I can see why you disliked the Jabberwocky part though. Jafar had the vorpel (?) sword handy. And i suppose they had to wrap up plot points though. I was kind of hoping the Jabberwocky would be the one to finish off Jafar, but it was kind of obvious that his defeat was going to mirror his defeat in the movie. And technically the jabberwocky wasn't really defeated per say, because she just got pinned to a wall again.

I do wonder how much protection the vorpel sword gave jafar. Clearly it allowed him to control her. But when the Jabberwocky was first introduced, it looked like she could have offed him rather easily. He was frozen with fear, yet she didn't try to kill him. So maybe she can't kill the owner of the sword due to magical laws or something. Maybe if Jafar had dropped the sword, she may have been able to get her hands on it and then kill him?

It could have been better handled, but i think they did what they could with their budget and wrapping up loose ends.

Back to Jafar: naveen did a splendid job. Jafar managed to surprise me. He was pretty hard core. He used the classic force choke, he turned will into a stature, he sliced off the white Rabbit's feet (magically of course), he sent an evil thunder cloud that zapped Will and therefore Alice, he was going to let alice's dad fall to his doom in order to get alice to make a wish, he pretty much killed cyrus, killed Ana, killed amara. He did what he had to do in order to achieve his goal, and he actually accomplished it.

The greatest thing about him in my opinion, was when he had the typical villain sob story and I was thinking, oh great, here comes regina-lite. He just wants to be loved and acknowledged by his horrible father. You could see them building up to that point of where you thought he'd magically make his father love him but then realize that fake love wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. You could see hints of that when he was pretending to be alice's dAd and he looked touched. So in the finale he got his wish, and then he offs his father the same way the sultan tried to kill him. Turns out, jafar just wanted power. I found that pretty refreshing compared to what was happening in Once at that time. I was sort of shocked how disturbing that scene was for a Once show. Did any of this make sense? I'm not very good at explaining things :(

Now about the Red Queen/Ana: yes Ana was better than her evil persona.

But I will disagree with the Red Queen being a Regina lite. It makes me kind of sad that they took one look at her and wrote the show off because she seemed to be a cardboard cut out of Regina. Do the two characters have similarities? Yes. But to tell you the truth, i like the Red queen/Ana better than Regina.

I don't consider Ana a Regina-lite, I consider her a Cora-lite. One could argue regina was a cora-lite, but to me they had very different motivations. Regina felt wronged and was driven by revenge. Ana was driven by the same motivations as Cora. She chose power and luxury over love. Regina never strived for power, just revenge. Unlike cora though, ana would ultimately choose love after seeing how empty her life was without her true love. Honestly, I think Ana had the most beautiful and well done redemption arcs out of both Once series. Ana's redemption wipes the floor with Regina's because ana realized she was in the wrong and strove to change that. Also there was the added bonus that there weren't enough episodes where the writers could get a chance to screw up her character. I doubt Ana would have flip flopped like Regina though.

I also appreciated how she wasn't portrayed as an all powerful sorceress compared to every other magically inclined person in the Once universe. It could have been just because they didn't have time for her to show off all her talents, but Ana came off as kind of a beginner. She knew the basics (knocking someone off their feet, changing a stick into a sword, etc.) but that was about it.

Sorry if I repeated myself anywhere, i worked on this post at two different times.

[Camera One]

I liked Ana so much more in the second half.  I just couldn't buy her acting when she was evil.  I remember in the first episode, the most cringe-worthy scene to me was Ana and Jafar hamming it up.  Ana was so much more interesting as a flawed individual with weaknesses.  I loved Naveen on "Lost" but I hated the character of Jafar.  He was cheesy without the seriousness that Rumple and Regina were able to build into their characters.  Jafar was also way too violent for my tastes.  He was one character who was just as bad by the end of the series.  He had no depth at all.  

 

I did like Alice, Will and Cyrus almost immediately, so that was what got me to continue with the show.  And then by the halfway point, I started to like Ana as well, so it was 4 out of 5.  

 

I didn't know they're not releasing a DVD for this series.  For shame!  So many people put in so much work for this show, and it would have been better watched as a marathon.  I think the first half of the season would have had more momentum when watched back to back, and the second half was so well done.  Since it was a one-off, they actually had payoff for the various characters and the couplings.  

 

I like your analogy of the small class, HoodlumSheep.  That's why I would have liked a half-season of "Once Upon a Time in the Enchanted Forest", so they could do more little vignettes of the backstories of the supporting characters like Granny, Gepetto, Blue, Aurora, etc.  

Edited October 18, 2014 by Camera One

[jhlipton]

YMMV as the kids say

[HoodlumSheep]

Yes to the marathoning! That's the way to go with some shows these days. I'm never bothered by pacing too much. A lot shows start out slow because they have to introduce the characters, world, and the concept. To me Wonderland picked up in episodes 4/5. And by then we were almost half way done with the show, so why not just finish it?

Am I the only one who liked Jafar? Be honest, was it because everyone was jealous of his glorious hair, that no one liked him??

I liked the ruthlessness part about him. I found it refreshing compared to regina and rumple, who favored overcomplicated schemes.

That's why he reminded me a little of Cora (I loved Cora).

And we got a villain that was evil just 'cause. He didn't really let his sob story take control of his life like regina or rumple, as evidenced when he killed his father. He just wanted power.

I loved to hate him.

Compare him to Zelena. She knocked people out and turned a fee people into monkeys. She never even used that cursed needle she took from Regina. Whereas Jafar killed half the heroes. Ana and I'm counting Cyrus even though it could be argued that he may have been an inch from death rather than actually dead.

Jafar vs Amara was >>>>>> regina vs. zelena too. It could have been because their's was a finale battle rather than a regular episode duel. I don't know what the budget comparisons were though.

If i had to choose him or the jabberwocky to jump over to the main show i don't know if I could.

Most people would probably choose the Jabberwocky. The only problem with that choice is that A&E would have to end he series because all the main characters would be reduced to blubbering messes. The jabberwocky would use their bones as toothpicks.

I love how the general consensus about the Jabberwocky from what I've seen was that she was most likely wearing a skin suit.

Loved Nice tweedle, felt bad for Lizard. Amara was awesome. Wish Alice's dad would have kicked the evil wife out of the house. I doubt that would happen due to the era they lived in, also I would feel bad for the little daughter, who was genuinely nice.

And if some people in the fandom complain about the lack of POC characters in the main show, they should have given Wonderland chance, but that's just my opinion.

Honestly, now that they've introduced will, if the glorious Galavant wasn't going to take Once's place I wish that they would play Wonderland in its time slot during the break, like they were originally supposed to do.

[jhlipton]

You just had to bring up Lizard, didn't you? What they did to her so stupid, so repulsive -- I'd blocked it from my mind, but now I'm angry all over again.  GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! 

[HoodlumSheep]

You just had to bring up Lizard, didn't you? What they did to her so stupid, so repulsive -- I'd blocked it from my mind, but now I'm angry all over again. GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

Haha, sorry about that. I didn't mind it, but I did wish to see a little more of her. But I suppose they were limited on time.

When lizard was first introduced, I thought she would have permanently joined alice and will on their quest to save Cyrus, but she didn't.

What angered you more the most about her character? Or at least what the writers did to her? That she was in love with Will or because she was used as an example for the whole "be careful what you wish for," concept? Or perhaps another reason?

Edited October 18, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[Camera One]

I was personally offended by how they disrespected a "good" well-meaning character not only by killing her but by having the villains desecrate her body in such a gruesome way.  I'm sure it's deliciously enjoyable to fans of shows like "Games of Thrones" but that's not what I personally enjoy seeing.

[jhlipton]

What Camera One said, but also the way they used "be careful what you wish for" -- just as inconsistent as "magic has a price" -- as the thinnest excuse to kill off one of the interesting characters.
 

From http://abc.go.com/shows/once-upon-a-time-in-wonderland/episode-guide/season-01/109-nothing-to-fear:
Lizard wishes he would feel something for her. This is a mistake. Her third wish sends the Knave back inside the bottle. He watches as Lizard dies before his eyes. Her wish came true. The Knave feels distraught and helpless over the cruel fate that has befallen his friend.

Note that he doesn't even feel distraught about her, so her wish did not come true. Even if he was a little sad, he was over her in five minutes, so no. Just no. I never bought that "her wish came true; not then and not now.

[HoodlumSheep]

Lizard's fate did seem hard core compared to the consequences from alice's wishes. Her dad merely waking up and thinking what had happened was a dream, seemed a much lighter punishment. I had almost wondered if they were going to show him getting carted off to the psycho ward at some point. But they didn't.

I think the Sultan's death disturbed me more than Lizard's fate. I was not expecting that. His death did bring his and Jafar's story arc full circle though. He shouldn't have tried drowning his kid.

Edited October 19, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[jhlipton]

All things considered, and what kind of person Jafar turned out to be, I think he should have tried harder.

[HoodlumSheep]

I liked the Sultan for the sole reason that he seemed to have a decently complex character. He tries to kill his son, but then spouts stuff about trying to earn love, yet seems like a decent fella at least to everybody that's not named Jafar. Has some wisdom, but probably not the kind he really needed.

Who did people like or root for more? The sultan or Jafar?

I think I rank the Sultan as a worse dad than Pan was to Rumple.

[Camera One]

I felt there was a total disconnect between the Younger Sultan and the Older Sultan.  

 

I hated Jafar in all aspects, as a villain, as a character, and the performance.  He felt way too cartoony for me and I could feel nothing for him, even though he was probably one of my favorite actors from "Lost".

[HoodlumSheep]

I didn't think there was that big of a disconnect. Younger sultan was evil, older sultan spouted some occasional wisdom, but it was the kind that made him into a hypocrite, which shows he didn't really change. He talks about how Jafar needed to earn his love, yet never gave him a chance. So he didn't seem to change much besides being friendly with Cyrus and Alice.

I think I must be the only person who liked Jafar :( It was a "love to hate" kinda love, but it probably stemmed from the fact that all the villains from Once (Regina, Rumple, Killy) were going through a redemption phase at the same time. I needed some good old-fashioned evilness. Pan and Jafar helped fill that whole.

[Camera One]

I just cannot reconcile someone who was morally-corrupt enough to personally drown his own son and was stone cold to him, to someone who would warmly and willingly sacrifice himself to help strangers like Cyrus and Alice.  The hardened look on the actor who played Younger Sulton and the warmth of the actor who played Older Sultan made them two separate characters to me.  The only way I could believe it was if they showed a flashback bridging the gap.

 

I vaguely remember on the old TWOP board, there were people who enjoyed Jafar.

[netlyon2]

No worries, HoodlumSheep, I inhaled the series a couple of weeks ago and thoroughly enjoyed Jafar.  I liked that the show gave him a complex background that clearly informed and motivated his actions, but didn't attempt to woobify him or redeem him in the end.  Even though I was horrified by his father's actions and understood how they led to Jafar's present evil, I never felt that he was presented as morally gray or someone who could be reached if his father would just relent.  In fact, I loved his reaction after using the love spell to make his father proud of him:  "well, that was nice and now on to the other part of my vengeance agenda" -- stone cold.  If they had killed him in the end, I would have been fine with it even though I liked the character; I do appreciate them sticking with the Disney canon, though.

 

And on a purely shallow note, dear Lordy, Naveen Andrews! 

 

I thought that Old Sultan was just as much of a jerk as his younger self.  He was introduced as a sympathetic ear for Cyrus, but getting Jafar's backstory definitely shed a different light on the character.  Sure, he was an ally for Team Good, but that doesn't mean that he was good himself.  Take Jafar out of the equation, and I think that being locked away in a cage and forced to do meaningless hard labor is too kind a punishment for someone who brutally murders a child.  As for helping Cyrus and Alice, I didn't see that as particularly giving or sacrificial.  Escaping with Cyrus was not exactly a promising proposition; the only reason Cyrus was able to do it was because he was crazy enough to leap into the sea (and had the plot armor to keep him from dying).  In the final showdown, the Sultan's choice to distract Jafar could easily have been a matter of self-preservation since Jafar was so close to defeating the laws of magic.  At best, he pitched in to help prevent more deaths caused by the monster that he created. 

 

I should probably admit that the only character that I disliked more than the sultan was Alice herself, so I may not be the typical viewer.

[HoodlumSheep]

Netlyon2, I'm happy that you enjoyed Jafar and the Wonderland series (from the sounds of it)!

You explained everything that made me enjoy Jafar and even the sultan. They weren't really supposed to be sympathetic characters, and their actions weren't whitewashed like in Once.

I can probably understand why you aren't fond of Alice. I don't hate her, but she isn't high on the totem pole for me. I wish she had more depth to her character. My least favorite was the White Rabbit though. Such a coward (which was understandable, but I wish he would have grown a little backbone).

Favorite non-main character was definitely the good Tweedle.

[KingOfHearts]

I loved Jafar! He's a very majestic yet ruthless villain. I'd love for him to come to the parent show.

[Camera One]

After marathoning this show the last few days with a friend who had never seen it, I was thinking about whether 13 episodes was too many, too few or just right for a stand-alone storyline.

 

In some ways, even 13 might be a bit much for a complete story without dragging.  It was widely discussed how the pacing for the first 8 episodes was way too slow, and Cyrus was in the cage for way too long.  That was still the case the second time through, but I enjoyed the slower pace since they put so many character moments in the journey.  In that regard, having 13 episodes was a good thing.  The reduced numbers of characters allowed them to really explore each character's backstory, and the 13 episodes was perfect so you weren't over-saturated on anyone.  They did a good job of balancing a plot-of-the-week with the over-arching goal.  They also allowed Alice and Cyrus, normally the boring heroes, to be clever and strategic.  They were able to do a proper redemption arc for the Red Queen.  And they were able to build up to a climax where the villain lost out when he himself did something stupid.  That's so common in the animated films and in fairy tales, but that has hardly been the case on the parent show.

 

The first time around, I enjoyed the last five episodes much more than the first 8.  The second time around, I think they equalized a bit more for me... I didn't enjoy the last 5 as much as last time, but they were still solid.  When watched one after another, sometimes it became a little tiresome since Jafar got one thing, and then lost another... for example, Jafar got the Genie (Will) but then he needed Will's heart; and when he got Will's heart, he lost his Staff.  I liked that this show had the villain experiencing setbacks.  It balanced out the heroes and the villains a bit more.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Camera One

[HoodlumSheep]

I only found eps 1-3/4ish to be slow-paced, but pacing is something that is opinion-based. I think I have a higher tolerance for slower-paced episodes and shows, so pacing wasn't too much of an issue. I thought the show picked up when Alice began to use her wishes (so episode 4 or 5).

I thought 13 episodes ended up being the perfect amount, although there will always be a part of me that wants more (I'm greedy like that).

I'm hoping I can rewatch the series at some point. I would still take most of the Wonderland characters over most of Once's main characters.

if I had to rank my favorite characters between the two shows Ana, Cyrus (he's probably Wonderland's equivalent of charming), Jafar, and the Jabberwocky would rank pretty high. Throw in Will for good measure too. Nice Tweedle is probably one of my top secondary characters, even though his screen time was limited. He was a sweetie. I think the only character in Wonderland I didn't like was the White Rabbit).

Edited January 1, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Camera One]

Yeah, for sure pacing is opinion-based as is everything, but sadly, most viewers just don't have that patience.  I enjoyed the slower pace as well, mainly because they used the extra time well.  They had the characters talk, they explored their internal fears and struggles and they made the quests interesting and included iconic places in Wonderland as well as elements from other stories like Grendel.

 

I'm kind of curious how they would have paced the 13 episodes, if they had known ahead of time that it was only going to be 13.  It must have been tough to write for the possibility that the series could continue.  I would like to know when exactly they realized the series was cancelled.  Was it before they even started writing the last 5?  Or in the midst of it?  Because they did an awesome job of wrapping up the story in a really complete and satisfying way.  

 

If that were they case, I wonder if they would have freed Cyrus from the cage a little earlier, and done a more balanced number for first half vs. second half of the season.  In some ways, I think the existing number works, since the search for Cyrus was more of a quest and quests take time, whereas the final episodes were a dash to the finish line... I might have changed the balance from 7 to 6.  We never saw how they got Amara back into human form, so that could have been a quest for an episode (though then they couldn't have the "surprise" plan of Amara suddenly showing up out of the blue).

[jhlipton]

I thought the show picked up when Alice began to use her wishes (so episode 4 or 5).

 

Now, for me, that's when it started to go off the rails.  Alice and Cyrus were flat-out dumb about the wishes.  I would have wished Jafar into the center of the sun, ot, at the very least, wished that he could never again hurt someone.

[Ailianna]

The basic problem with wishes though, shows in a wish to have Jafar never hurt someone again. How do you define "hurt"? Physical hurt, emotional hurt, financial hurt? Who is included in "someone"? Does that only include human/human-shaped people? Sentient creatures (and then what is sentience)? Living creatures? How is he supposed to survive if he can't even eat fruit because plants are within the wish's "someone"?

The reason genie wishes are dangerous is because of the ability to form different interpretations and change meanings--so in that way, Alice was trying to be wise in making them as small and discrete as possible, trying to minimize the possible unanticipated side effects. She wasn't entirely successful, but it's a very hard thing to do.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Ailianna

[Camera One]

As Ailianna said, I think the writers did make an attempt to get around the wishes by stressing that the bigger the wish, the more likely it can be "twisted".  I don't think they could wish Jafar into the sun, because the Genie can't kill anyone.  The shopkeeper who wished that Jafar cannot harm him ended up getting killed by Amara.  So maybe wishing Jafar never hurt anyone again wouldn't stop him from getting others to harm them.  

[jhlipton]

As Ailianna said, I think the writers did make an attempt to get around the wishes by stressing that the bigger the wish, the more likely it can be "twisted".  I don't think they could wish Jafar into the sun, because the Genie can't kill anyone.  The shopkeeper who wished that Jafar cannot harm him ended up getting killed by Amara.  So maybe wishing Jafar never hurt anyone again wouldn't stop him from getting others to harm them.  

 

He could stay in the heart of the sun indefinitely without dying.  And the writers played fast and loose with what the wishes could and could not do fairly often.  

 

Maybe they could have "twisted" "Jafar can not harm, by action or inaction, directly or indirectly, any sentient creature."  Heck, they have the genie right there!  Ask him to word the wish!  Duh!

[Camera One]

Yeah, I agree they were very vague with what could be wished or not.  Jafar shut Anastasia up later in the season before she could follow through on Will's suggestion to wish Jafar out of Wonderland.  Not sure if that could have worked.  The writers needed to think things even more, though overall, I was alright with it and could sustain my disbelief.

 

On my second viewing, I had a problem with how unnecessarily cruel Amara was.  Was she always like this before Cyrus revived her with the Well of Wonders waters? Did they always intend for her to be their mother?  How was she going to free her sons from their bottles/lamps anyway?  Would she have needed Jafar to do that?

[jhlipton]

Yeah, I agree they were very vague with what could be wished or not.  Jafar shut Anastasia up later in the season before she could follow through on Will's suggestion to wish Jafar out of Wonderland.  Not sure if that could have worked.  The writers needed to think things even more, though overall, I was alright with it and could sustain my disbelief.

 

Oooh -- wifh Jafar to trade places with Alice in the asylum... without magic.  That would have been a fun and worthy wish!

 

============================================================

 

ETA:

I must take exception to "the Genie can't kill anyone" as well.  Tell that to The Lizard!  That's right, you can't because the Genie murdered her!

Edited January 4, 2015 by jhlipton

[HoodlumSheep]

I never thought of the Lizard situation as murder for some reason . It was an indirect murder of sorts. Lizard kinda just dropped dead. She could of died of natural causes? I know it's still a kinda direct cause from the wish, but at least it wasn't due to Will stabbing her or flinging her off a cliff or something more...murder-y? I don't think about too much.

It always did bug me that they skipped how Amara escaped from the staff. They cu from the eyes glowing to her in human form. When I first watched that episode I seriously thought I had missed a scene and rewound the episode. I just accepted it though by rationalizing that Amara knew how to escape all along and was just biding her time, knowing Jafar was gathering her sons together and basically doing the job of finding them for her.

It would have been interesting to see if Amara was evilish all her life or if she just got crueler after the time of her sons being genie-fied.

I still liked Amara though. She was kinda awesome in the final battle until Jafar killed(?) her with his magical grabby hand move (This sounds ridiculous but I don't know what else to call it). And I liked how she was ready to die for her kids by giving back the water from the well. At least she wasn't selfish when it came down to it.

[jhlipton]

I never thought of the Lizard situation as murder for some reason . It was an indirect murder of sorts. Lizard kinda just dropped dead. She could of died of natural causes? I know it's still a kinda direct cause from the wish, but at least it wasn't due to Will stabbing her or flinging her off a cliff or something more...murder-y? I don't think about too much.

 

Nope -- the Genie flat-out killed her so that Will would "feel something for her" (her wish, right) for 5 freakin' minutes before it's "well, that's done, now we can forget her."  The Genie "twisted" a fairly simple and straight-forward wish into a death sentence.  But it can't kill Jafar?  Yeah, right!

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[KingOfHearts]

Hello, I'm over here from the Once Upon a Time board. A few of us are watching (or rewatching) an episode of Once Upon a Time in Wonderland each Sunday until the Spring premiere. So, 1x01... Down the Rabbit Hole.

Something I like about this show is that it's extremely campy, adventurous, and silly. The Once universe has always been so ridiculous, and this spinoff totally embraces that. It's not trying to be the next Lost. It is what it is. That doesn't make it good, but it does make it fun, at least for me. I can go in with low expectations and go out feeling like my hour was well-spent. The CGI is low budget, the story is fast-paced, and the characters are mostly likable. There's no one in it to really just hate. Some of the characters are pretty bland or suffer from poor acting, but they don't ruin the show.

Right off the bat, it was a little chaotic. There was an abundance of time and world jumps. First we saw Young Alice, then Will in Storybrooke, then Alice in the Asylum, then Alice meeting Cyrus in Wonderland, and then Alice losing Cyrus to the Red Queen after proposing to her. It hopped back and forth a lot. While the visuals of the Asylum were pretty well done, the "Alice is crazy" bit felt a little cliche. She didn't seem dangerous or unhinged, just disturbed. I wouldn't mind seeing her father rejecting her, because that was just a more important plot line. I've seen the trope where a character goes to a magical world, comes back, and no one believes them so many times before. (Return to Oz, anyone??)

Also, love how Dr. Lydgate was a proponent of a lobotomy but thought the Jekyll/Hyde serum was too edgy.

[Mari]

I know the CGI is particularly not-good, but I actually see that as a feature, not a bug.  It's a by-product of being Wonderland, where even people from the Enchanted Forest are surprised by what's possible.

So, when Alice disappeared as a little girl, did time run differently in Wonderland than it did at home?  Because it did not seem as though Alice realized she was gone as long as her father thought?

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I know the CGI is particularly not-good, but I actually see that as a feature, not a bug.  It's a by-product of being Wonderland, where even people from the Enchanted Forest are surprised by what's possible.

This. It makes Wonderland more whimsical and, for lack of a better term, in-character. The bad CGI is more in tune with the book and what we had already seen on the mother show. The scenes in the forests that look like EF are actually kind of off-putting.

Quote

So, when Alice disappeared as a little girl, did time run differently in Wonderland than it did at home?  Because it did not seem as though Alice realized she was gone as long as her father thought?

How did Alice make multiple trips to Wonderland without being able to prove it was real? Was it like Narnia and she could only go when she was called to?

Edited December 12, 2016 by KingOfHearts