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46 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This is something that did not make much sense to me.  Crowley made hell into the orderly place that it was and suddenly this season he really never wanted to do it that way? I. DO NOT GET IT.

I don't think Crowley was saying he didn't want Hell to be orderly. I thought he was saying he was tired of people challenging him and making it disorderly.

46 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Well, if Crowley's spell was successful the gate of Hell are closed...so....will it matter?

This reminds me, Crowley closing the Gates of Hell sure makes Dean being killed and turned into a demon because he took on the Mark to make up for Kevin's murder at the hands of the angel that Dean allowed to possess Sam because Sam was dying from the trials that would close the Gates of Hell via Sam curing Crowley...sure seems like a completely pointless exercise when apparently Crowley knew how to do it all along???

Or am I missing something here?

I don't think the spell Crowley did was supposed to close the gates of Hell. He said he would close the gates of Hell if they captured Lucifer, but that was before they found the alternate universe. The spell he did was meant to close the rift with the Devil on the other side.

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Just now, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think the spell Crowley did was supposed to close the gates of Hell. He said he would close the gates of Hell if they captured Lucifer, but that was before they found the alternate universe. The spell he did was meant to close the rift with the Devil on the other side.

Yeah, I got that from some other folks who corrected me. Just keep beating me over the head LOL (I'm just kidding. I'm guessing you just missed those posts. It's all good.)

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4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Yeah, I got that from some other folks who corrected me. Just keep beating me over the head LOL (I'm just kidding. I'm guessing you just missed those posts. It's all good.)

Sorry, it jumped to the next page when I posted, didn't realize there were a bunch I'd missed. Happens to me quite a bit.

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1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Sorry, it jumped to the next page when I posted, didn't realize there were a bunch I'd missed. Happens to me quite a bit.

I feel your pain. Happens to me too. I was just teasing you! I figure at least 4 more commenters will let me know too :P

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2 hours ago, The Morning Star said:

I think what makes Lucifer great in my opinion is the fact that excuse my language, he doesn't give a @&$&, he has immerse power and is nearly invincible.

I like Lucifer because as I described elsewhere he's somewhat unpredictable in that maybe he'll pet the bunny to death kind of way. He can apparently "care" about something, in his warped, awful way - like how he says he "likes" and "understands" Sam and thinks that they are "made for each other" - but Lucifer's idea of attention is creepy and scary. And he generally ends up torturing, breaking, or killing everything he supposedly cares about. But I get his motivation also in a way - well in a crazy, psychopathic way. But he's more than just evil for evil's sake. He's an evil who thinks he's right and none of the bad he does would happen if only everyone understood how right he was - except it probably still would, because he's also a "big bag of dicks" (TM Gabriel).

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

He used to be scary and intimidating in s5

I also found Sam's Lucifer hallucinations to be effectively creepy and unnerving, especially the more subtle stuff. Like the hallucinations represented how Sam felt about  / was affected by / previously experienced Lucifer. Sam reciting along with his hallucination on how you can't torture someone who has nothing left to take away was effective and creepy, for me, as was his Lucifer playing Dean later in that episode, and later the casual - for Hallucination Lucifer - references to violating Sam... like it was no big deal for him (Lucifer), but you could see the effect on Sam.

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You know the more I think on it, the more I think Mark Sheppard is just trolling all of us and purposely portraying the "disgruntled employee" .  If he were genuinely unhappy with the show I don't think he'd be so open about it on twitter! He'd want to protect his reputation and keep himself open to getting work if nothing else. There are so many stories of good actors struggling to get work because they built a bad reputation for themselves by dissing a former employer, no employer wants to risk being the next one to be insulted, so I doubt Mark would risk becoming one of these. I think he'll be back even if only to guest star in an episode or two.

Edited by Wayward Son
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17 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

You know the more I think on it, the more I think Mark Sheppard is just trolling all of us and purposely portraying the "disgruntled employee" .  If he were genuinely unhappy with the show I don't think he'd be so open about it on twitter! He'd want to protect his reputation and keep himself open to getting work if nothing else. There are so many stories of good actors struggling to get work because they built a bad reputation for themselves by dissing a former employer, no employer wants to risk being the next one to be insulted, so I doubt Mark would risk becoming one of these. I think he'll be back even if only to guest star in an episode or two.

Did you see his farewell tweet?

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3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Did you see his farewell tweet?

I just did funnily enough. So either this is a part of the con, or Mark meant it had a "oh shit I shouldn't have been unprofessional like that... I'd better do damage control and properly announce my departure". 

 

Also, general question for all not just Catrox, did you guys see Mark has clarified he will be doing cons in future. They just won't be creation ones. 

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Not surprised by the con announcement. I figured there was some parting of the ways with Creation.  

PhxCon will be uncomfortable!

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5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So who is going to be running Hell now? I don't think I can take it if it's Lucifer/Mark P. He just doesn't have Mark S/Crowley's charm.

Will there be uncontrolled demons running amok?

I'm guessing it would either be Lucifer or Asmodeus, who is the only remaining Prince of Hell.

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4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

You know the more I think on it, the more I think Mark Sheppard is just trolling all of us and purposely portraying the "disgruntled employee" .  If he were genuinely unhappy with the show I don't think he'd be so open about it on twitter! He'd want to protect his reputation and keep himself open to getting work if nothing else. There are so many stories of good actors struggling to get work because they built a bad reputation for themselves by dissing a former employer, no employer wants to risk being the next one to be insulted, so I doubt Mark would risk becoming one of these. I think he'll be back even if only to guest star in an episode or two.

Welcome to the wild side, Wayward Son! ;) I'm still not 100 percent convinced, it's not like Mark hasn't played along before. I'm leaning more toward Crowley's death sticking. But, as I said before, I'll believe it when Crowley doesn't show up in S13. Same goes for all the other deaths

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Also, general question for all not just Catrox, did you guys see Mark has clarified he will be doing cons in future. They just won't be creation ones. 

I wondered. 

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I will miss Mark not being at the Creation Con.  He is always entertaining and always says how much he loves the fans.

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35 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

I will miss Mark not being at the Creation Con.  He is always entertaining and always says how much he loves the fans.

I don't think I've ever seen another actor who loves fans as much as Mark Sheppard does. I mean, most of them appreciate the fans and all, but Mark LOVES them.

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Mark strikes me as someone who will say what's on his mind.  So if he's being salty, I tend to lean toward what he says being the truth.  He's not saying Crowley's dead.  He's saying goodbye.  If it is some ruse, its pretty dickish of the show.  Because some of the more casual fans may not stick around to see for the punchline, all they're doing is costing themselves viewers. 

We'll never know the whole story, but with Mary and Lucifer being trapped in the alt world, I tend to think they'll play a bigger role.   So more then likely, they couldn't afford 6 full time regulars, so Mark S was cut for budgetary reasons.

If Crowley had sealed Lucifer away for good, it would have been one thing but since it didn't work it was for nothing.

I'm going to miss his scenes with Dean.

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1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Welcome to the wild side, Wayward Son! ;) I'm still not 100 percent convinced, it's not like Mark hasn't played along before. I'm leaning more toward Crowley's death sticking. But, as I said before, I'll believe it when Crowley doesn't show up in S13. Same goes for all the other deaths

Why thank you! Do I get cookies? 

And originally I was 80% Crowley is gone and 20% he is staying. However, after thinking on Mark's behaviour yesterday, I'd say I'm now 50/50 maybe even leaning in favour of his return, even if only in a more limited capacity. I just think it'd be OOC of Mark to behave unprofessionally by openly throwing shade at the show like he did yesterday. 

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4 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Why thank you! Do I get cookies? 

And originally I was 80% Crowley is gone and 20% he is staying. However, after thinking on Mark's behaviour yesterday, I'd say I'm now 50/50 maybe even leaning in favour of his return, even if only in a more limited capacity. I just think it'd be OOC of Mark to behave unprofessionally by openly throwing shade at the show like he did yesterday. 

No cookies in the house, might I offer you some pie?!! ;)

I don't know, I didn't think Mark was throwing shade at the show myself, but I understand why others feel he was. I kinda think he was just trying not to say anything. But, without intonation, context and body language these things can be read in so many ways.

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33 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Because some of the more casual fans may not stick around to see for the punchline, all they're doing is costing themselves viewers. 

After 13 seasons, is there really such a thing as a casual fan any more?  ;)

I could make that argument work the other way too.  A true casual viewer (if such a thing exists for SPN) imo probably wouldn't tune in primarily for the secondary characters, especially since there is no guarantee of seeing them week to week, so it would be harder to get invested in them that way.   Therefore, the death of Crowley wouldn't make much difference.  ::shrugs::

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Mark Pellegrino retweeted Mark Sheppard's tweet that Mark S would be at many cons in 2018, just not Creation ones. Apparently, Mark S and Creation have parted ways as of 2018.

The BBC is looking for a new Dr Who. "Even when I lose, I win". You don't suppose.............?

Edited by DJG1122
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11 minutes ago, DJG1122 said:

The BBC is looking for a new Dr Who. "Even when I lose, I win". You don't suppose.............?

Oooh, Mark Sheppard would be an interesting choice to play the Doctor. Very different vibe there, I kinda like the idea. I really have no idea if this is even and option nor do I know how they'd wave away his previous part on the show, but I like it!  

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1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

 

I don't know, I didn't think Mark was throwing shade at the show myself, but I understand why others feel he was

I don't feel like he was throwing shade either. I didn't think k anything he has said is particularly grumpy.

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13 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

I don't feel like he was throwing shade either. I didn't think k anything he has said is particularly grumpy.

I think he was throwing a little shade. Maybe not at the show and his experience on the whole, but on S12 (maybe Dabb? or maybe that's just me projecting because I think Dabb sucks so hard). Oh yes. He specifically called it a 'fitting end' that the line he came up with was 'surprise surprise', cut.  He was not mean or disrespectful, but a little salty? Oh yes.

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6 hours ago, SueB said:

Not surprised by the con announcement. I figured there was some parting of the ways with Creation.  

PhxCon will be uncomfortable!

Sue any idea why?

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3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think he was throwing a little shade. Maybe not at the show and his experience on the whole, but on S12 (maybe Dabb? or maybe that's just me projecting because I think Dabb sucks so hard). Oh yes. He specifically called it a 'fitting end' that the line he came up with was 'surprise surprise', cut.  He was not mean or disrespectful, but a little salty? Oh yes.

I just read it as an actory thing: lines get cut all the time, of course it would be one of his favorite lines. ::shrugs::

Like I said, it's hard to say without mannerisms and intonation. 

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10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think he was throwing a little shade. Maybe not at the show and his experience on the whole, but on S12 (maybe Dabb? or maybe that's just me projecting because I think Dabb sucks so hard). Oh yes. He specifically called it a 'fitting end' that the line he came up with was 'surprise surprise', cut.  He was not mean or disrespectful, but a little salty? Oh yes.

OK.  Maybe a little. 

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2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

After 13 seasons, is there really such a thing as a casual fan any more?  ;)

I could make that argument work the other way too.  A true casual viewer (if such a thing exists for SPN) imo probably wouldn't tune in primarily for the secondary characters, especially since there is no guarantee of seeing them week to week, so it would be harder to get invested in them that way.   Therefore, the death of Crowley wouldn't make much difference.  ::shrugs::

That would be my husband.  :-D  If we watch live, he watches with me.  If we dvr it, he's good with me telling him what happened.  He still hasn't seen a complete season since 6.

That being said, if Jodi dies, he has repeatedly said that would be the end of the show for him.  ;-)

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4 hours ago, Diane said:

Sue any idea why?

SPECULATION: Perhaps they won't pay him as much now that he's not a regular and still active on the show.  And I could see Mark taking issue with that as he was with the show for 7 years and a regular.  Jim Beaver, for example, SHOULD have been made a regular but was not.  Instead he was recurring (a LOT) through S7 with a large number of episodes S4-S7.  But they don't even INVITE Jim.  I don't know why.  He's said in the past he'd come if invited.

OTOH, they've made Matt Cohen a 'staple' for many conventions despite the fact that he's appeared a grand total of 3 times.  I LOVE Matt & his con appearances, but Creation does seem to have it's own 'equation' for who to invite.  

No matter what, based on my few personal interactions with him, if they were disrespectful to him as a person, I feel he'd walk.  He believes in professional behavior and treatment and he won't be bullied.  

So... I PERSONALLY suspect he's 'okay' with being off the show -- it does allow him to pursue other things -- but potentially irked at Creation.  And he's no dummy.  If people clammer to Creation to "fix it", they may cave. I enjoy Mark at conventions. I think he has a lot of insight.  And he can play-act surly but he's a charmer.  And magnetically attracted to children.  I would LOVE to hear him "full metal jacket" about the show if he's not going to be on it.  Not "telling tales" in any way, but providing show insights.  I think he has a TON.  But he's always played coy because he doesn't want to give away any story line.  Now, presuming he's out of the loop, we might get some insights on characters that only Mark could provide (again, he's very insightful on the show and the characters).  

So...
1) I think any 'fuss' is with the Creation Entertainment people only
2) If there is 'fuss', he'd avoid showing it with TPTB
3) I'd like to see him back at Creation conventions but this may drive up his price elsewhere.

Finally, I need a DAMN EXIT INTERVIEW if he's really gone. **

** And I'll have to spend a shit-ton of money to get my OWN exit interview at DCCon (via M&G) if I don't get one.  Those will become more precious IMO since they will be going away.  

Edited by SueB
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1 minute ago, SueB said:

SPECULATION: Perhaps they won't pay him as much now that he's not a regular and still active on the show.  And I could see Mark taking issue with that as he was with the show for 7 years and a regular.  Jim Beaver, for example, SHOULD have been made a regular but was not.  Instead he was recurring (a LOT) through S7 with a large number of episodes S4-S7.  But they don't even INVITE Jim.  I don't know why.  He's said in the past he'd come if invited.

OTOH, they've made Matt Cohen a 'staple' for many conventions despite the fact that he's appeared a grand total of 3 times.  I LOVE Matt & his con appearances, but Creation does seem to have it's own 'equation' for who to invite.  

No matter what, based on my few personal interactions with him, if they were disrespectful to him as a person, I feel he'd walk.  He believes in professional behavior and treatment and he won't be bullied.  

So... I PERSONALLY suspect he's 'okay' with being off the show -- it does allow him to pursue other things -- but potentially irked at Creation.  And he's no dummy.  If people clammer to Creation to "fix it", they may cave. I enjoy Mark at conventions. I think he has a lot of insight.  And he can play-act surly but he's a charmer.  And magnetically attracted to children.  I would LOVE to hear him "full metal jacket" about the show if he's not going to be on it.  Not "telling tales" in any way, but providing show insights.  I think he has a TON.  But he's always played coy because he doesn't want to give away any story line.  Now, presuming he's out of the loop, we might get some insights on characters that only Mark could provide (again, he's very insightful on the show and the characters).  

So...
1) I think any 'fuss' is with the Creation Entertainment people only
2) If there is 'fuss', he'd avoid showing it with TPTB
3) I'd like to see him back at Creation conventions but this may drive up his price elsewhere.

Finally, I need a DAMN EXIT INTERVIEW if he's really gone. 

Thank you for your insights.  He has tweeted this now, so I am guessing if he did Creation Cons he couldn't do others in the states:

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19 minutes ago, Diane said:

Thank you for your insights.  He has tweeted this now, so I am guessing if he did Creation Cons he couldn't do others in the states:

Yeah, from what I've heard Creation are very strict about tying actors down to exclusivity contracts. J2, Misha and anyone else on the show contracted with them can only do different conventions if they are based outside the US.

ETA: I wonder if the exclusivity more than the pay was what made Mark walk. If he has left he may not want to risk being in the position where he has achieved regular status on a different show, but can't attend cons and interact with fans of said show because he's tied down by creation. That'd be understandable.  

Edited by Wayward Son
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I am so sad I loved Crowley and Mark Sheppard
Edited by Diane
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So the producers couldn`t come out and bother to say a few nice things about a long-time actor on the show after the Finale aired? Every numbskull on every other show seems to manage that in a case like this. Personally, I think that shows a severe lack of class or even common courtesy. Even if Dabb somehow couldn`t think of it, Singer has been in the business for decades, he should know some industry etiquette.

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They could have just been waiting for Mark to announce it himself before saying anything! I think we should probably give Dabb and Co a day or two before gathering our pitch forks ;)

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I'm thinking with the Cons it's straightforward--now that Mark is no longer on SPN he wants to be free to do other Cons in the USA...so he'll do that and do non-Creation SPN Cons.

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They could have just been waiting for Mark to announce it himself before saying anything! I think we should probably give Dabb and Co a day or two before gathering our pitch forks ;)

Usually, the exit interviews are done after the episode airs. With this Finale, there seemed to be a lot of "are they dead? hm" thing. Apparently, the TPTB didn`t mean to keep it a secret because Misha`s return has been spoiled and now Mark has spoken out. And I kinda get the vibe that Mark has finally said something himself because noone else from the show was gonna clarify.

So since it looks like this was his exit, I think an acknowledgment should have happened right away. Especially since the episode itself diluded his death scene by having more deaths in it.

If we get statements now I will still side-eye them and question if they only came because Mark put them on the spot. 

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1 hour ago, SueB said:

 Jim Beaver, for example, SHOULD have been made a regular but was not.

Jim Beaver was actually offered regular status.  He turned it down because he said he did not want to uproot his daughter and move her to Vancouver during filming.

We lost the wrong Mark. 

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A friend of mine was asking about the series regulars to date! Am I correct to say they've been

 

Katie Cassidy 

Season 3 

 

Lauren Cohan

Season 3 

 

Misha Collins 

Seasons 5-6, 9-12

 

Mark Shepherd 

Seasons 10 - 12

 

Mark Pellegrino 

Season 12

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18 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Jim Beaver was actually offered regular status.  He turned it down because he said he did not want to uproot his daughter and move her to Vancouver during filming.

We lost the wrong Mark. 

Well we will see If the Supernatural Wiki page on season 13 ends up correct--it has as regulars...the 2 J's, Misha and Mark Pellegrino.  I KNOW anyone can edit that page, so grain of salt BUT someone put it up there and it's stayed like that last couple of weeks.

If it was just a guess--it seems very likely at this point anyway.

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1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Usually, the exit interviews are done after the episode airs. With this Finale, there seemed to be a lot of "are they dead? hm" thing. Apparently, the TPTB didn`t mean to keep it a secret because Misha`s return has been spoiled and now Mark has spoken out. And I kinda get the vibe that Mark has finally said something himself because noone else from the show was gonna clarify.

So since it looks like this was his exit, I think an acknowledgment should have happened right away. Especially since the episode itself diluded his death scene by having more deaths in it.

If we get statements now I will still side-eye them and question if they only came because Mark put them on the spot. 

I still think we should be cautious when it comes to judgments. I'm not sure about the guy from Arrow (maybe @catrox14 can clarify), but last year Kit Harington from Game of Thrones announced his exit after a cliffhanger death only to return to the show as it was a ruse. I don't think we can rule out this also being the same here. 

Edited by Wayward Son
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but last year Kit Harington from Game of Thrones announced his exit after a cliffhanger death only to return to the show as it was a ruse. 

I believe after that Game of Thrones Finale, there were big announcements from everyone and their kitchen sink how Jon Snow was doodely dead. So that made it an effective ruse. After the Grimm Season  Finale there were exit interviews how the Juliette character was dead. Well, it was both a lie and not since the actress returned to the show but playing in essence a different character. 

In both cases IMO the ruse worked somewhat. If it is a ruse here - don`t think so actually, Mark S. sounds not that happy in his instagram post - I would especially have expected exit interviews. 

Actually, I would have expected them regardless if the actors or an actor return(s). Do a nice little "we thank... for so many years of great work bla bla" at least. Then, if it`s planned, the "psych, they are not dead" effect works all the better. 

No matter what happens, this just feels "eh, whatever" from the producers.  

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http://tvline.com/2017/05/24/will-and-grace-series-finale-revival-estranged-children-spoilers/

Question: I’m still recovering from the deaths of the Supernatural finale. Yeah. I know. I should be used to it, right? What can you say about Misha Collins and Mark Sheppard? Are they in Season 13? Or have we seen the last of Cas and Crowley on the show? —Fernanda
Ausiello: Collins’ Cas is sticking around. Sheppard’s Crowley, however, is dunzo (for now, at least).

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54 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Jim Beaver was actually offered regular status.  He turned it down because he said he did not want to uproot his daughter and move her to Vancouver during filming.

We lost the wrong Mark. 

100% agree with this. While I think Mark P is a good actor, I would be quite okay with never seeing Lucifer on SPN again. On the other hand, Crowley (the absolute shit writing for him this season notwithstanding) always added something to his scenes that made me want to keep him around, especially his little verbal sparring matches with Dean.  And barring that, I think they could have made something of non-King Crowley. Maybe they could've even completed the demon cure on him. I dunno, I just feel like the show will be less without him.

 

2 hours ago, SueB said:

SPECULATION: Perhaps they won't pay him as much now that he's not a regular and still active on the show.  And I could see Mark taking issue with that as he was with the show for 7 years and a regular.  Jim Beaver, for example, SHOULD have been made a regular but was not.  Instead he was recurring (a LOT) through S7 with a large number of episodes S4-S7.  But they don't even INVITE Jim.  I don't know why.  He's said in the past he'd come if invited.

<snip>

Am I misunderstanding here? Jim has been at a lot of Creation cons. Heck, *I've* only been to four and he was at two of them.

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18 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

100% agree with this. While I think Mark P is a good actor, I would be quite okay with never seeing Lucifer on SPN again. On the other hand, Crowley (the absolute shit writing for him this season notwithstanding) always added something to his scenes that made me want to keep him around, especially his little verbal sparring matches with Dean.  And barring that, I think they could have made something of non-King Crowley. Maybe they could've even completed the demon cure on him. I dunno, I just feel like the show will be less without him.

 

Am I misunderstanding here? Jim has been at a lot of Creation cons. Heck, *I've* only been to four and he was at two of them.

Let me re-phrase, they don't seem to offer him that many.  I haven't seen him but I think ONCE in the last two years be at a SUPERNATURAL Creation Con. 

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42 minutes ago, SueB said:

Let me re-phrase, they don't seem to offer him that many.  I haven't seen him but I think ONCE in the last two years be at a SUPERNATURAL Creation Con. 

He was at Jacksonville and Seattle in 2017, and is booked for Phoenix next month. I've only been in the fandom a couple years, but a look at Superwiki shows him at at least a couple Salute to Supernatural Creation cons each year.

Edited by gonzosgirrl

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2 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I still think we should be cautious when it comes to judgments. I'm not sure about the guy from Arrow (maybe @catrox14 can clarify), but last year Kit Harington from Game of Thrones announced his exit after a cliffhanger death only to return to the show as it was a ruse. I don't think we can rule out this also being the same here. 

The guy from Arrow is a weird deal. He was throwing shade about how his  character was treated like a year ago, then scuttlebutt from showrunner in like Marchish was that his character was coming back. Then he said on Twitter he was not coming back to Arrow and for people to not make assumptions.Fans were tweeting  at him about how disrespectful they were treating him and his character. So since he wears a mask theoretically any stunt man could be in that suit. Then  a couple weeks later he's coming back. And voila ...so shenanigans with PR.

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I personally think Mark left for his own reasons, and wasn't let go.  I think he told TPTB early last season and that's why Mark P's status changed, mid season.  He's no longer a series regular, but that doesn't preclude him from coming back as a guest down the road.

I think this is why... http://bit.ly/audixmarksheppard   He's going on tour with the band, and he still plays with Louden Swain, or at least he did when this article was written.  I honestly think he wanted to pursue his music for a while.  And they weren't exactly challenging him with an amazing storyline, so why not?

I'm very disappointed that Mark P. appears to be taking his place.  I find nothing of interest to Lucifer's character anymore.  He's just a whiny, spoiled brat.  And this is another reason why I didn't like the whole God storyline, because he and Amara have taken off for parts unknown, and he really needed to clean up his Lucifer mess before he left.  I thought for a moment that they might be moving away from the heaven/hell crap, but obviously not.  

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19 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I hope the demons start running amok. That sounds way more fun than trying to put someone else in Crowley's place.

Personally, I don't see Lucifer as a Crowley replacement. They have very different roles. While Lucifer is God to the demons, he could give two fucks about Hell or running it. Crowley took pride in maintaining a certain order and status quo.

Not to mention Lucifer's only goal is to restart the apocalypse. Crowley liked the balance. 

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39 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I personally think Mark left for his own reasons, and wasn't let go.  I think he told TPTB early last season and that's why Mark P's status changed, mid season.  He's no longer a series regular, but that doesn't preclude him from coming back as a guest down the road.

I think this is why... http://bit.ly/audixmarksheppard   He's going on tour with the band, and he still plays with Louden Swain, or at least he did when this article was written.  I honestly think he wanted to pursue his music for a while.  And they weren't exactly challenging him with an amazing storyline, so why not?

I'm very disappointed that Mark P. appears to be taking his place.  I find nothing of interest to Lucifer's character anymore.  He's just a whiny, spoiled brat.  And this is another reason why I didn't like the whole God storyline, because he and Amara have taken off for parts unknown, and he really needed to clean up his Lucifer mess before he left.  I thought for a moment that they might be moving away from the heaven/hell crap, but obviously not.  

That makes sense but why kill off the character to give him time away? Just have him get stuck in the AU and leave it open for him to come back for an occasional visit. 

Is it possible for an actor to negotiate their character be killed off so no one else can play the role? I mean in Supernatural that is kind of pointless what with vessels and such but in a general way. Maybe he asked for Crowley to be killed and then he wrote that line that was not included so maybe he thinks it kind of messed up his exit so he's a bit salty?

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ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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