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Tara Ariano

S01.E06: And The Fables Of Doom

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In an episode about people changing into other things with Rene Auberjonois guest starring, and Jonathan Frakes directing, you would think they would have snuck in an Odo reference somewhere.

 

I liked it -- as @CoderLady indicated upthread, action and humor was definitely going to be in play.

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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Getting a little tired of the asshole thief being the answer to the problem of the week based on his intrinsic assholishness. 

 

And I hope Cassandra didn't gain some lasting magic powers, because if she's hiding something that important from everyone again, Jake's never going to trust her. But if it's just a little pet firefly thing, that's kinda sweet.

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Getting a little tired of the asshole thief being the answer to the problem of the week based on his intrinsic assholishness. 

 

Or at least dial it down a notch with the consummate, unrelenting assholery.

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That little girl was super cute. I actually thought the Ezkeil was nice with her. 

 

They shouldn't have been arguing about whether to go to the library or to the hospital. There's 4 of them. They can split up. I got a kick out of Prince Charming since I didn't get what was going on right when all the waitresses were fawning over her. 

 

This reminded me of some of the better Xena romps, like when they stumble upon a kingdom and the princess looked just like Xena. 

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I didn't mind him that much last week, but I thought they did go too far with Ezekiel this time.  I wanted either Bard or Jake to just smack him at some point in this episode.  Of course, that just had to mean he would be the hero for this one.

 

The Fable stuff was pretty fun.  I figured Cassandra was turning into Charming, but the reveal was still fun.  And, Baird becoming a Princess (I wonder if her losing her shoe meant she was Cinderella?), was probably the most I liked her.  Rebecca Romjin was better with the more comedic stuff, I think.

 

Always great seeing Rene Auberjonois.  Not to mention Jonathan Frankes behind the camera.  I do like all the appearances from sci-fi favs.

 

Still like Jake, but now that I'm currently watching Leverage, I totally think that Christian Kane is more or less playing him like Elliot. Especially the way Jake acts around Ezekiel: his annoyed reactions are just like when Elliot got annoyed with Hardison.  Only Hardison is way, way more awesome then Ezekiel.

 

I wonder why they are doubling up on episodes next week?  I heard the ratings are better then most of TNT's stuff, so I don't think it's a burn off of any kind.

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A (not exactly accurate) Supernatural reference! That should probably not be exciting to me, but it was.

I do need some dimensions added to Ezekiel Jones, asap. Stone continues to be my favorite character; he makes everyone else more interesting. (Of course, that could be because I only started watching this for Christian Kane.)

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Especially the way Jake acts around Ezekiel: his annoyed reactions are just like when Elliot got annoyed with Hardison.  Only Hardison is way, way more awesome then Ezekiel.

 

Interesting comparison. I've noticed this too, and I have thoughts (not actually addressing your point; more like jumping off from it, if you don't mind). I'm not sure if they're trying to recapture the Elliot/Hardison dynamic with these two. Because Hardison was a very likeable character (even when he was an egotistical jackass), and Elliot constantly shooting him down only served to demonstrate how gruff and closed-off Elliot was. (Because how damaged do you have to be to not find Hardison charming?)

 

Here, we have Stone, who is a nice, reasonable guy, who is open about his thoughts and feelings and has casual conversations with his teammates, shooting down Ezekiel for the legitimate reasons of Ezekiel being an interminable egotistical jackass. It doesn't reflect on Stone that he's not willing to buy Jones' BS, it reflects on Jones. Jones obviously has something to prove to the team (not to mention the audience) as to why he deserves to be there. Because currently, he doesn't. And he doesn't seem to see that yet. (And by god I hope that's intentional on the writers' part.) I actually wonder if it would be more fair to compare JONES to Elliot, rather than Stone. His "I don't care about anything but having fun" attitude serves the same function as Elliot's gruff, hostile demeanor, in that it isolates him from the others, deflects honest conversations, and prevents meaningful connections from being formed. Over the course of Leverage, Elliot went from being a cold mercenary with no emotional investment to eventually accepting the team as family, loosening up around them and frequently displaying real (albeit often heavily disguised) loyalty and affection for them. It seems to me that Jones is the one being set up to take that particular journey on this show.

 

And speaking of, how exactly did Jones save the day here? Did I blink and miss something, or did he throw his lucky coin, and by chance it happened to hit the old man's... pause button? That resolution seemed like it got pulled very hastily out of someone's ass. Especially after the promising reveal that luck was on his side. Anything could have happened... so, how did THAT happen?

 

Overall, I liked it. Stone suddenly having "a bird on him" totally cracked me up, I'm not going to lie.

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I liked this episode, it was fun without feeling dumb. Cassandra didn't even bug me (but her clothing choices are really repetitive) & I liked her being Prince Charming. I thought it was really funny when Baird went full princess & was batting her eyelashes at Cassandra.

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I wonder why they are doubling up on episodes next week?  I heard the ratings are better then most of TNT's stuff, so I don't think it's a burn off of any kind.

 

I panicked a little when I heard double episode next week - burn off was my first thought to.  But checking the episodes they have left if they air one a week the finale will end up on super bowl sunday - so they either double up now or skip a week and show the final ep. on 2/8.

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And speaking of, how exactly did Jones save the day here? Did I blink and miss something, or did he throw his lucky coin, and by chance it happened to hit the old man's... pause button? That resolution seemed like it got pulled very hastily out of someone's ass. Especially after the promising reveal that luck was on his side. Anything could have happened... so, how did THAT happen?

 

I was confused by that too but I think he made a wish on the coin and the wish stopped the bad guy. Maybe?

 

 

Overall, I liked it. Stone suddenly having "a bird on him" totally cracked me up, I'm not going to lie.

 

Me too.  I saw the photos of Christian Kane with the owl on his arm a while back but had no idea what they were going to do with it.  It was such a random little moment and his expression of, "Yeah, I know" that turned into utter confusion was great.  I also laughed a lot at his initial explanation of a traffic flow study purely because I work for a company that does traffic studies and he explained it just about as badly I would have.

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I have a theory hear me out:

Cassandra swings both ways I mean good and evil the farthest: She could be Prince Charming....or the Evil Queen. Which is prolly why Stone shouldn't trust her. She really is the wild card. She could save the world...or destroy it.

Ezikeekial (sp?). Is who he is and doesn't change at all. Regardless of the game or magic. He is what he is. That is his gift...or his curse.

That leaves Baird and Stone who both are somewhere in between.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Still like Jake, but now that I'm currently watching Leverage, I totally think that Christian Kane is more or less playing him like Elliot.

 

The physical stuff, yes. I don't think Elliot will geek out of a magic sword, and I don't think he has a genuine appreciate for art and old books. Jake is a little more open and actually enthusiastic about the job. I also don't think he's willing to rely on the team members as much as with the Leverage crew. 

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And speaking of, how exactly did Jones save the day here? Did I blink and miss something, or did he throw his lucky coin, and by chance it happened to hit the old man's... pause button? That resolution seemed like it got pulled very hastily out of someone's ass. Especially after the promising reveal that luck was on his side. Anything could have happened... so, how did THAT happen?

 

Ezekial was the 'lucky knave/rogue" a'la Jack in the Beanstalk.  His "luck" was tossing the coin so it "luckily/by chance" ricocheted off various objects until it hit something that caused the evil librarian to pause.

 

Great character play by the others, Cassie as Prince Charming (and seeming to gain some confidence from it), Baird as a Princess (loved the bit about fighting in heels) and Jake as the Huntsman with the randomly appearing bird and the axe.  I hope we see more of the axe.

 

Agreed that Ezekial's character is a bit tiresome.  They'd better give us more reasons to like him, because right now, he's very off-putting.

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The physical stuff, yes. I don't think Elliot will geek out of a magic sword, and I don't think he has a genuine appreciate for art and old books. 

 

Although, Elliot did get pretty excited when Nate gave him a Samurai sword for Christmas :)

 

I'm torn with his character because I really liked seeing Stone fight as the huntsman/robot because CK is a good fighter but at the same time I don't want him to be Elliot.  But if he keeps smiling and being friendly and using his non-gravely voice that will hopefully be enough to separate the two characters.

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And speaking of, how exactly did Jones save the day here? Did I blink and miss something, or did he throw his lucky coin, and by chance it happened to hit the old man's... pause button? That resolution seemed like it got pulled very hastily out of someone's ass. Especially after the promising reveal that luck was on his side. Anything could have happened... so, how did THAT happen?

 

    

Ezekial was the 'lucky knave/rogue" a'la Jack in the Beanstalk.  His "luck" was tossing the coin so it "luckily/by chance" ricocheted off various objects until it hit something that caused the evil librarian to pause.

 

No, the "lucky rogue" thing is not what I have a problem with. I was right with the story up to the tossing of the coin. Because the story was working FOR Jones (the lucky rogue), I figured the coin was going to give him the chance he needed to save the day, probably by ricocheting around until it hit something in the room that legitimately incapacitated the old man, like a pressure point that made him drop the book, or knocked him out, or maybe getting lodged in his throat long enough for Jones to grab the book and wake up the girl.. but the coin somehow randomly stopping time for just the old guy seemed like such a bizzare leap. That wasn't "luck," it was a violation of the story logic. The clever rogue in fairy tales tricks his opponents or gets the better of them somehow by wit and chance... when, in a fairy tale, would a rogue ever FREEZE HIS OPPONENT IN TIME (by accident, no less) in order to steal his possessions?

 

I maybe could have bought it AFTER the little girl introduced robots, ninjas and Merlin to the story, but at that point it was totally nonsensical.

Edited by Slovenly Muse
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I feel a little slow because I didn't get who Cassandra was supposed to be until it was actually said. It was the most I've liked her though.

It could be the magic elements but I get more of a Lindsey (CKs role in Angel) vibe from Jake, more than Eliot.

More and more though Ezekiel is certain aspects of Hardison and Parker in one, and amped up... To the point that's already getting old. Didn't Nate even (ironically) tell Hardison more than once he's gotten by on luck? Hardisons cockiness on jobs worked because it went along with Hardison actually caring the most about everyone. There were layers clearly laid out behind Parker's lack of connecting and massive thieving. All I'm getting from Ezekiel is thieving self centered jerk. I found that he was the one of course not to change to be obvious and clichéd and therefore my least favorite thing about the episode.

Edited by Gigi43
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In consideration of the people on this forum who've never seen Leverage (I'm sure they must exist), I've started a new thread for comparisons between the two shows (and other shows with similarities) so that the episode threads don't get dominated by discussion of another show entirely:

 

Comparisons to Other Media: "Also by This Author"

 

Hope the mods don't mind! I've taken some of my thoughts over there already to get the ball rolling.

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The Fable stuff was pretty fun.  I figured Cassandra was turning into Charming, but the reveal was still fun.  And, Baird becoming a Princess (I wonder if her losing her shoe meant she was Cinderella?), was probably the most I liked her.  

Oh, I didn't wonder.  I mean they made the reference about as obvious as they could without outright saying "she loses her shoe because Cinderella does".

And I hope Cassandra didn't gain some lasting magic powers, because if she's hiding something that important from everyone again, Jake's never going to trust her. But if it's just a little pet firefly thing, that's kinda sweet.

It's interesting that we didn't see his trust issues with her explored quite as much in the previous episode where it was revealed that she was capable of mega-evil.  There should have been a natural denouement, where we saw one or the other of them fretting about this (and we didn't get it).  I mean sure, they all less one turned "evil" with the Apple of Discord, but she turned MEGA-evil. So in this one--an episode where she's much more benign with the power she gains--it just seemed odd there was no mention of the mega-evil situation, and we had to deal with the "can't trust you" question without that being part of it.

Edited by Kromm

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Overall, I liked it. Stone suddenly having "a bird on him" totally cracked me up, I'm not going to lie.

Humor is definitely this show's strength.

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Oh, I didn't wonder. I mean they made the reference about as obvious as they could without outright saying "she loses her shoe because Cinderella does".

It's interesting that we didn't see his trust issues with her explored quite as much in the previous episode where it was revealed that she was capable of mega-evil. There should have been a natural denouement, where we saw one or the other of them fretting about this (and we didn't get it). I mean sure, they all less one turned "evil" with the Apple of Discord, but she turned MEGA-evil. So in this one--an episode where she's much more benign with the power she gains--it just seemed odd there was no mention of the mega-evil situation, and we had to deal with the "can't trust you" question without that being part of it.

Kromm, word of god is that the episodes are being shown out of order.

Which, at least in terms of Cassandra's character, is a shame, because in the order they're being shown in, she feels entitled to bad behavior, expects trust when she's never expressed any meaningful remorse, and is all around a dangerous ally for the team. As it is, I not only don't blame Stone for not trusting her, I kind of think less of Eve for thinking anyone should.

Edited by Julia
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Which, at least in terms of Cassandra's character, is a shame, because in the order they're being shown in, she feels entitled to bad behavior, expects trust when she's never expressed any meaningful remorse, and is all around a dangerous ally for the team. As it is, I not only don't blame Stone for not trusting her, I kind of think less of Eve for thinking anyone should.

 

I'm actually hopefull that she'll go darkside at some point. There seem to be lots of hints that she's kind of sketchy once you get beyond the sweet, bubbly persona. She did know the serpent guys killed all the other potential librarians, didn't she? And still worked with them?

Edited by SilverStormm · Reason: Corrected formatting issues.

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I am probably the only one who thinks this but Ezekiel does not bother me that much. Yes he is a smart ass and full of himself. His attitude seems in line with him being a thief who thinks highly of himself.

I think I dislike Cassandra the most. The combination of her cutesy attitude and the betrayal at the start of the series makes it hard for me to like her. Maybe I will warm up to her later never know.

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I am probably the only one who thinks this but Ezekiel does not bother me that much. Yes he is a smart ass and full of himself. His attitude seems in line with him being a thief who thinks highly of himself.

I think I dislike Cassandra the most. The combination of her cutesy attitude and the betrayal at the start of the series makes it hard for me to like her. Maybe I will warm up to her later never know.

I don't dislike Ezekial. He's an ass but it's not like he's mean about it.  

 

He's here for the ride cuz it's fun and he may get to steal things. I don't really see why that's such a bad thing. Everybody can't be working solely toward the greater good. 

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She did know the serpent guys killed all the other potential librarians

 

Even if she was told that, she just has the word of two strangers that it's true.  And the Library was keeping magic from the rest of the world, so she might have an inclination to believe the opposition.

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I think I dislike Cassandra the most. The combination of her cutesy attitude and the betrayal at the start of the series makes it hard for me to like her. Maybe I will warm up to her later never know.

Well, plus when the others went evil they just wanted to take over the world.  When SHE went evil she wanted to kill lots of people.

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It's funny. I found evil Cassandra the least annoying of all the Cassandras so far. I understand that Cassandra. She's had a crappy life, she's got a 'gift' that's isolating her from the world and allowing people less intelligent than she is to dismiss her, she's dying, and she blew two shots at a cure (not convinced she saved Flynn on purpose). She's pissed, she doesn't think much of the world, and she's sick of pretending to be sweet and harmless.

Of course, that makes it a little painful that Baird apparently somehow got to be an expert in counterterrorism without realizing that sad, sad woobies sometimes make not-very-nice choices.

I have hopes they'll make it all hang together a bit more when we've seen the character development stuff they skipped over, and that they'll dial the wonder waif back considerably.

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He's here for the ride cuz it's fun and he may get to steal things. I don't really see why that's such a bad thing. Everybody can't be working solely toward the greater good.

 

I think they're over doing it him deliberately to set him up for some real trouble. Then the team saves him and he Learns Something. 

 

As much as a dbag as he was, his decision to go to the hospital versus the library was correct, since he did find the girl affected by the book. So it's not like he's just hanging around. He is contributing.

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I don't necessarily dislike Ezekiel's "unapologetic yet lucky thief" schtick, I just want to see a more varied personality from him than just that. I'm aware that might be asking too much of this show, but still...

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I swear I think they were doing a shout-out to House there, with Jenkins writing out a differential diagnosis on the board and commenting that "It's never the Genie's Lamp" ("It's never Lupus"). Loved this episode. I need more Jenkins.

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I think they're over doing it him deliberately to set him up for some real trouble. Then the team saves him and he Learns Something. 

 

As much as a dbag as he was, his decision to go to the hospital versus the library was correct, since he did find the girl affected by the book. So it's not like he's just hanging around. He is contributing.

It was, and it really grinded(ground?) my gears that no one else wanted to hear him when he was trying to explain about the sick girl at the hospital. They cut him off a couple times before he could get it out.

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I don't necessarily dislike Ezekiel's "unapologetic yet lucky thief" schtick, I just want to see a more varied personality from him than just that. I'm aware that might be asking too much of this show, but still...

He annoys me the same way Dennis the Menace does--which means I cannot bear to watch it. If there was a way to make his "'unapologetic yet lucky thief' schtick" actions less cringe-worthy, I would be okay with it. For instance, I don't mind when Patrick Jane on The Mentalist does some seemingly stupid trick/con because I trust that he has predicted the outcome correctly. Ezekiel is just relying on luck that I don't think we have any reason to believe in.

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You're right; it's kind of weird that while Stone has an actual wealth of art history knowledge that makes him a potential librarian, and Cassandra a tumor that gives her brain immense mathematical power to make her a potential librarian, Jones has.... near-magical luckiness that makes him a potential librarian? He's a cocky leprechaun?

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To be fair, his thieving skills are legit. He was the lucky fool in this episode because that's his fairy tale counterpart. Acquiring magical artifacts through stealth and guile isn't a bad skill. He's just being a dick about it. 

 

I'm kind of of the mind that on their own, none of the three would be a full, legit librarian and that all of their skills are needed. Emergent quality, as it were. 

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You beat me to it, ganesh.  I just skimmed through the first episode to see if they explained what his purpose is and Jones says himself the only skill he has is stealing.  He also had the inventory of the museum memorized (because he once robbed it) and could tell them where the painting Stone mentioned could be located.  I agree--on their own they wouldn't be able to get much done.

 

 

It was, and it really grinded(ground?) my gears that no one else wanted to hear him when he was trying to explain about the sick girl at the hospital. They cut him off a couple times before he could get it out.

 

If he had been trying to find the patient (instead of chasing a coin)--and the others knew he had been trying to find her--they probably would have been more inclined to listen.  But as far as they knew he was screwing around while they were doing all the work.  I wouldn't have listened to him either. 

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To be fair, his thieving skills are legit. He was the lucky fool in this episode because that's his fairy tale counterpart. Acquiring magical artifacts through stealth and guile isn't a bad skill. He's just being a dick about it.

 

You beat me to it, ganesh.  I just skimmed through the first episode to see if they explained what his purpose is and Jones says himself the only skill he has is stealing.  He also had the inventory of the museum memorized (because he once robbed it) and could tell them where the painting Stone mentioned could be located.  I agree--on their own they wouldn't be able to get much done.

I had forgotten about his memorizing the museum -- that's the kind of stuff I think I need to see more of. The last few episodes have seemed to focus more on his "ability" to be lucky rather than the skills he's perfected through being a thief. I'd love to see more of his "thievery" skills being put to a non-thievery use -- that would really help highlight his skillset, rather than them constantly talking about how he just gets away with everything all the time.

 

I do see your point about the three of them being a complete librarian when they are put together -- that's actually a nice thought.

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Julia used this phrase:

 

the wonder waif

and I loved it so much, I now only refer to the character as Cassandra the Wonder Waif. I used it in the poll posted above.

Edited by ABay
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If he had been trying to find the patient (instead of chasing a coin)--and the others knew he had been trying to find her--they probably would have been more inclined to listen.  But as far as they knew he was screwing around while they were doing all the work.  I wouldn't have listened to him either. 

They know they're in a town full of crazy fairy tale shit happening. It would behoove them to listen to their partner.  No matter what he was doing there's a pretty big chance he would come in contact with something of note.

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I'd love to see more of his "thievery" skills being put to a non-thievery use -- that would really help highlight his skillset, rather than them constantly talking about how he just gets away with everything all the time.

 

They did say they needed him to pick the lock in the local library because that's where they thought the book was. He was arguing at the time that he find the girl, so it would be likely the book would make its way back to her. So, not unreasonable. I think everyone was amped up because of the magic book. And at the time of the argument, they didn't know the thief was unaffected.

 

I enjoy shows where there's legit teamwork going on. Farscape was notorious for just batshit schemes: Yes, we're blowing up the spaceship, but it will be slow enough for everyone to evacuate.

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To be fair, his thieving skills are legit. He was the lucky fool in this episode because that's his fairy tale counterpart. Acquiring magical artifacts through stealth and guile isn't a bad skill. He's just being a dick about it. 

 

I'm kind of of the mind that on their own, none of the three would be a full, legit librarian and that all of their skills are needed. Emergent quality, as it were.

So maybe Ezekiel's skill is based on the access I and my fellow librarians have to proprietary databases of information and nearly everything ever published? I guess to the average person who asks, "Can I get this [book, article, bit of information] without paying for it?" what I do seems like both playing Robin Hood and performing magic.

And I do know at least one librarian who is as annoying as Ezekiel.

But I wouldn't want to watch a show about him.

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I think Ezekiel's superpower, as a master thief, is being able to exploit other peoples' weaknesses and the weaknesses in their defences, but in order to do that, he has to be able to figure out what they are. Being a librarian seems to involve a lot of fraud and manipulating people, and except for Cassandra (whose skills in that area the serpent brotherhood appear to be immune to) the rest of them seem to kind of suck at that. I think they need him, or at least someone like him.

Honestly, I find it kind of restful that I'm not being asked to love him.

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I finally saw this episode yesterday, and all the ads that were running for Grimm, which was starting reruns on TNT the next day, made me wonder if it was a coincidence that this episode dealt with fairytales--and they said the town was in the Pacific Northwest, right?

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