Rory and Logan

[marineg]

2 hours ago, tarotx said:

In Hay Bale Maze, Rory and Logan were talking about her decision on rather or not she wanted to take the Providence job. He noticed Rory was doing a Pro-Con list and saw that she had question marks on his name. He told her not to worry about factoring him in for this decision. Basically that if she goes to Providence it would be up to him to factor her in. And Rory told Logan that in general, she would like to factor him in. Logan clearly took that to mean they were both on the same page. But Rory didn't understand what that all meant. 

Later Rory had the conversation with Paris in the episode 7.19 - It's Just Like Riding A Bike:

Rory probably should have seen this coming. Not the marriage proposal but the San Fran part of it. Logan thought he and Rory were on the same page that they were going to factor each other in depending on who got the job first.  Long distance wasn't an issue for her, they did it already although they had both hated it. They both found themselves Jealous at times. And that was when Logan could come back a lot. It would be different when he didn't have Huntzberger money to provide that ability. And this time there was no job forcing the Long distance. Rory didn't have a job or even prospects of a job. She just wasn't ready to limit her prospects for Logan.

What Logan did wrong (way wrong) was the public proposal. It left Rory without time to think things out. Logan knew Rory needed Pro-con lists. he even mentions for her to do a pro-con list during the Bridesmaid debacle. I think it makes no sense that he would propose in public especially at a stuffy Emily/DAR-ish party.

I agree with this. But I will say this about the proposal: as much as I hate the public proposal thing at an event where there are only a couple of Rory's real loved ones, I think Logan gave her as much time as Rory needed. Yes, he was "surprised" she didn't say yes right away, but he was okay with her thinking about it when she asked. Rory is the one who only took 12 hours to think about it. I'm sure he would have been fine waiting a bit longer.

[Alice Mudgarden]

I just want to say, as someone new around these parts, how much it warms my heart to see people who like Logan and Rory together and, hell, just like Logan in general. I've always felt very "the cheese stands alone" on this topic because so many people seem to loathe Logan, and I've never quite understood it. To "meet" kindred spirits is so great.

As far as the pair after the Revival goes - I still root for them, though I resent the regression AS-P gave to Logan. I refuse to pretend as though all the growth he made, especially in season seven (which I like more than others do), didn't happen because she's seemingly married to the Lorelai/Christopher/Luke parallel with Rory/Logan/Jess.

For starters, I don't think Logan and Christopher are very alike, outside of the "poor little rich boy" thing they try to convey. At the end of the Revival, I said out loud to the TV that if Rory's baby is Logan's (and come on, it obviously is), there's no way Logan's not fighting for that child - whether it be what pushes him to break off his arranged engagement and be with Rory fully, or to be in his child's life as a present and caring father separate from Rory. Logan, overall, is a much stronger person than Christopher.

That parallel is the main reason I don't want them to do anything more with the show, because they'd so clearly push the story in that direction and it's not what I'd like to see for any of the three of them. I feel like Jess is someone from ages ago, who has grown so much (I couldn't STAND him, but by the end I liked him much more, and more than Rory) and seen Rory so little, that I want better for him than to be still pining for her. And honestly, I didn't get any kind of spark from them in the Revival, especially not on Rory's end.

After everything, it's Logan I want to see Rory with, not Jess. Their relationship was longer, more mature and more significant. They make sense together and I feel like the relationship has earned it working itself out for good.

I hope I didn't derail such a thoughtful conversation too much, but I was too happy to be able to chime in with thoughts I've had for so long haha

[marineg]

10 hours ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

As far as the pair after the Revival goes - I still root for them, though I resent the regression AS-P gave to Logan. I refuse to pretend as though all the growth he made, especially in season seven (which I like more than others do), didn't happen because she's seemingly married to the Lorelai/Christopher/Luke parallel with Rory/Logan/Jess.

For starters, I don't think Logan and Christopher are very alike, outside of the "poor little rich boy" thing they try to convey. At the end of the Revival, I said out loud to the TV that if Rory's baby is Logan's (and come on, it obviously is), there's no way Logan's not fighting for that child - whether it be what pushes him to break off his arranged engagement and be with Rory fully, or to be in his child's life as a present and caring father separate from Rory. Logan, overall, is a much stronger person than Christopher.

That parallel is the main reason I don't want them to do anything more with the show, because they'd so clearly push the story in that direction and it's not what I'd like to see for any of the three of them.

I think that the revival tried to much to create similarities between Logan and Chris that didn't exist before. you're right, in the OG, it was only a question of "they're rich and go kicked out of the same schools." In the revival, ASP & DP pushed them both into going back to their fathers' businesses, being asses who cheat on their fiancées, being oblivious to their "partners'" pregnancies, being pieces of shit who don't (potentially) care about their kids... I hate that. You're right, Logan would never not own up ton his responsibilities. As much as one can hate Logan, and apart from the first few times we saw him, he has always owned up to his mistakes and taken responsibly for his actions. Chris never did.

 

10 hours ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

I feel like Jess is someone from ages ago, who has grown so much (I couldn't STAND him, but by the end I liked him much more, and more than Rory) and seen Rory so little, that I want better for him than to be still pining for her. And honestly, I didn't get any kind of spark from them in the Revival, especially not on Rory's end.

The only reason I cheer for them to be together is because I want more Milo in my life. And he is so perfect now. He has always been there for Rory, and like he said, he may be the only one who truly knows her. But why is ASP creating this perfect potential boyfriend, who is the one who always helps Rory figure out her life, if she never has them end up together? 

I get the parallel with Luke as the GG's reliable guy in her life while she figures herself out, but Rory had herself figured out in the first seasons. It's only after Season 5 and the boat thievery that she wasn't. Up until then, we knew who she was, and so did she. And then Mitchum happened. He was right of course, she was/is a shitty journalist, but he was the deciding factor of all her aimlessness. She shouldn't have to rely on an ex-boyfriend to help her figure out her life. Especially in a supposed feminist show.

But it's especially weird because Rory never looks at Jess the way Jess looks at Rory. At least with Luke and Lorelai, she looked at him with potential love eyes right in the pilot. It took them years to start dating, but there always was the flirting thing going. Not with Jess and Rory. He tries to flirt with her, to be there for her, but in the selfish Rory manner, she couldn't give less of a f**k.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Quote

he may be the only one who truly knows her

This is bullshit. He barely knows her.   He berated and told her "this is not who you are" when he sees her as not perfect. To really know someone, you have to see and acknowledge all the facets of themselves. The good and the bad. A person is not whole when all they are to you is "good"

And he is the opposite of reliable. He constantly left her in the lurch then shows out of the blue to make foolish declarations. Once, to ask her to leave her life behind, including Ivy league education to run off with him. The next time we see him, he's saying being out of school is not her.  She was already unhappy with the direction of her life before he showed up. Giving him credit for going back to school is giving her none. But that is par of the course when it comes to Rory specifically. All the good in her life is attributed to secondary forces, all the bad is directly heaped on her.

By the revival, Jess has virtually become a stranger. Someone she interacted with only because of whom her mother is involved with. They had no relationship outside that of Luke and Lorelai's. A natural progression, regression if you will, of their relationship from the OS. Jess is someone she briefly dated when she was what? 17 years, moved on from and never looked back. 

[Alice Mudgarden]

9 hours ago, marineg said:

I think that the revival tried to much to create similarities between Logan and Chris that didn't exist before. you're right, in the OG, it was only a question of "they're rich and go kicked out of the same schools." In the revival, ASP & DP pushed them both into going back to their fathers' businesses, being asses who cheat on their fiancées, being oblivious to their "partners'" pregnancies, being pieces of shit who don't (potentially) care about their kids... I hate that. You're right, Logan would never not own up ton his responsibilities. As much as one can hate Logan, and apart from the first few times we saw him, he has always owned up to his mistakes and taken responsibly for his actions. Chris never did.

 

The only reason I cheer for them to be together is because I want more Milo in my life. And he is so perfect now. He has always been there for Rory, and like he said, he may be the only one who truly knows her. But why is ASP creating this perfect potential boyfriend, who is the one who always helps Rory figure out her life, if she never has them end up together? 

I get the parallel with Luke as the GG's reliable guy in her life while she figures herself out, but Rory had herself figured out in the first seasons. It's only after Season 5 and the boat thievery that she wasn't. Up until then, we knew who she was, and so did she. And then Mitchum happened. He was right of course, she was/is a shitty journalist, but he was the deciding factor of all her aimlessness. She shouldn't have to rely on an ex-boyfriend to help her figure out her life. Especially in a supposed feminist show.

But it's especially weird because Rory never looks at Jess the way Jess looks at Rory. At least with Luke and Lorelai, she looked at him with potential love eyes right in the pilot. It took them years to start dating, but there always was the flirting thing going. Not with Jess and Rory. He tries to flirt with her, to be there for her, but in the selfish Rory manner, she couldn't give less of a f**k.

The Revival totally did try to push the Logan and Christopher thing more, and it drove me nuts because it flew in the face of everything I had watched for three seasons. Logan had shown the most growth in season seven, but it's not like AS-P's seasons were filled with Logan being some sucky Christopher clone. She gave him depth, too. She's just so in love with the idea of this parallel that it came at the expense of Logan (Rory some, but not as much, IMO).

I love Milo also, and at this point I like Jess way more than I do Rory, but I do agree with the sentiment below:

1 hour ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

This is bullshit. He barely knows her.   He berated and told her "this is not who you are" when he sees her as not perfect. To really know someone, you have to see and acknowledge all the facets of themselves. The good and the bad. A person is not whole when all they are to you is "good"

And he is the opposite of reliable. He constantly left her in the lurch then shows out of the blue to make foolish declarations. Once, to ask her to leave her life behind, including Ivy league education to run off with him. The next time we see him, he's saying being out of school is not her.  She was already unhappy with the direction of her life before he showed up. Giving him credit for going back to school is giving her none. But that is par of the course when it comes to Rory specifically. All the good in her life is attributed to secondary forces, all the bad is directly heaped on her.

By the revival, Jess has virtually become a stranger. Someone she interacted with only because of whom her mother is involved with. They had no relationship outside that of Luke and Lorelai's. A natural progression, regression if you will, of their relationship from the OS. Jess is someone she briefly dated when she was what? 17 years, moved on from and never looked back. 

I remember when Jess is shouting at Rory outside the bar, actually shouting back at him that he knows her the least out of anyone in her life. And certainly less than her other two relationships, especially Logan. I resented so much about that scene; that he had the balls to say that, that she actually listened to him and not anyone else, that she then went on to suddenly grow a pair and completely cut down Logan by blaming him for stuff that was her fault and suddenly talking to him like she barely even likes anything about him. I was like "because of JESS?!" Haaaaated that whole thing. Hate.

It would make no sense for Jess to still be so hung up on Rory after all this time and, with how I feel about current Jess, for him to be so is such a disservice to that character's growth also. Not only do I not feel Jess is anything like Luke in that regard - Jess was making insane declarations of love out of the blue when he was still a teenager, Luke couldn't get his act together as a full grown man - but the situations aren't even the same. At least Luke saw and spoke with Lorelai everyday. They were actively in each other's lives. Rory and Jess hadn't seen or spoken to each other in ages, but he still carries a torch for her? Not only do I find that totally ridiculous, but it doesn't feel like the Jess of now. Maybe he'd have found someone new or maybe he's off pursuing his own journey alone, but I sincerely don't think he'd be hung up on a girlfriend he had for two minutes in high school, that he hadn't spoken to in forever.

So much about the Revival as it pertains to Logan and Jess does them both such a disservice. I guess at least it's fair in that way? Haha.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Alice Mudgarden

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

It wasn't because of Jess that she went back to Yale. She was already second guessing dropping out.

Rory went off on Logan because he was being a jerk and he didn't back down. It wasn't because of something Jess did or said. Sorry, I just don't think he's that much of an influence that he purports to be. I also liked the fight she and Logan had because they had it coming. Both said things the other needed to hear.

The revival was shittier than cow dung .  As shittier was it was, no one from the show attributed Jess to the "full circle."   It is a fan theory. 

[andromeda331]

I hate the comparing of Christopher and Logan too. As much as I hate Logan except for the revival he's still in college, he's still young and has time to grow and change. To decide what he wants to do with his life. And he does. He starts maturing and works. First for his dad and decides to go solo, experience his first crash solo and decide to quit working for his dad. Even if he hadn't done that he's still young and had plenty of time to grow up. Christopher bailed on raising Rory, didn't go to college and didn't really do anything. He was in his thirties and still hadn't put his life together. He wasted years. He could have gone to college, gotten a job and worked his way up, he could have done anything but didn't.  He chose not too.

[JustaPerson]

I was rewatching a bit and was reminded of this exchange between Richard and Emily about Logan and Rory:

Emily: Picture his blond hair and her blue eyes on a little baby...

Richard: Incomparable!

[Oldernowiser]

On 12/5/2016 at 12:51 PM, Aloeonatable said:

I'm not totally sold on the Logan=Christopher, but there are parallels that cannot be denied. 

Like they’re both cocky, unreliable, rich little jerks? Hated Christopher, hated Tristan, and Logan has just appeared on the scene in my watching this show and is so far just Asshat Rich Boy Privilege 3.0. Blech.

[readster]

17 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Like they’re both cocky, unreliable, rich little jerks? Hated Christopher, hated Tristan, and Logan has just appeared on the scene in my watching this show and is so far just Asshat Rich Boy Privilege 3.0. Blech.

Right up to how their parents talk about how their lives are not how they SHOULD BE, but then go on to say: "Well, that's not your fault." Even after Logan was injured in one of the LDB stunts. I could so see Straub doing the same thing if Christopher would have done something similar. AS-P was just bent on saying: "See, even though she is smart, Rory has the same luck and taste in men just like her mother. You can't escape your past." No shit AS-P, but at the same time you NEVER... ONCE Show anyone learning from it.