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EtheltoTillie

S01.E01: Meet The Bates

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The first episode of the new Bates show is sneak previewing on demand. I caught it yesterday by chance. They still seem way more normal than the Duggars. Not as much time in front of the cameras yet plus less personality disorder. I loved watching Gil go up in a tree with the chain saw. My dad was in the same business and did the same stunts daily. While it was very scary we just thought of it as normal.

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I did feel bad for Erin too.  But I noticed that her voice is less annoying now that she is married.  It's not as high.  The Bateses also seem to have evolved into more modern clothing, as the Duggars did.  No more matching prairie dresses.

 

And for all the snarking we do about the Duggars being late, the Bateses call themselves "The Late Bates" and admit they can't get anywhere on time either.  I guess it's really hard to get 21 people out the door, unless you follow the Captain Von Trapp whistle method.

 

I can see why they do the ungrammatical "Bates" in that construction, as it rhymes.  But I wonder if they know the difference. 

Edited by GussieK
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I must have missed something here with Erin. Did they ever say what the matter is with her and having children? I know she lost one early on a little while ago; any medical info update? I know how much they value being able to produce babies one after the other, and it has a lot to do with their self worth, sorry to say. I hope her mother and husband have told her that isn't how a person is valued and are helping her along that road. Thanks, fellow posters for the update on her.

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I haven't seen the episode, but I tend to check Chad's blog and instagram from time to time and I'm happy to see that it looks like they're doing well. Now of course social media isn't always the best representation bc people only post happy pics, but it looks like they're getting out and doing stuff together, rather than just sitting in church 24-7 praying for a child. Erin is still teaching music lessons, and in the last year it looks like they've taken several trips by themselves to the beach, mountains, etc. I'm sure they'd rather just have a baby just like Zach and Alyssa, but since that hasn't happened for them yet, I'm hopeful that maybe they are really believing "when God wills" instead of other fundies who say that but expect a child 9 months after marriage. Reality is they are so young -- I mean Erin can't be more than 22-23 max since she graduated after she married Chad; that gives them years to try for a child, and sure -- if it takes them longer to have the first or longer between kids, they may not end up with 8 or 15 or whatever, but they still have many chances to have a child and likely even 3 or 4 kids.

 

Somehow Gill and Kelly seem more "genuine" to me, even though we know they have the same beliefs as the Duggars. I see that family caring more about each other, and I'm hopeful that regardless of it all -- Gil and Kelly just want to see Chad and Erin happy. I wouldn't be surprised if they are really preaching "it'll happen when it happens, in the meantime go enjoy yourselves" rather than giving helpful "tips" or suggesting doctors or treatments or whatever. I feel like if it was the Duggars, JB would be telling Derick to "get on it and get it done," whereas I can see Gil telling Chad "so what -- you'll have one next yr or 2 yrs from now or whenever, it's not a contest with Zach or John Webster."

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I must have missed something here with Erin. Did they ever say what the matter is with her and having children? I know she lost one early on a little while ago; any medical info update? I know how much they value being able to produce babies one after the other, and it has a lot to do with their self worth, sorry to say. I hope her mother and husband have told her that isn't how a person is valued and are helping her along that road. Thanks, fellow posters for the update on her.

 

If I recall correctly, Erin had a molar pregnancy (basically, an empty/otherwise non-viable egg was fertilized by sperm, so there was never any chance of a normal fetus developing).  The general recommendation that doctors give women who've had molar pregnancies is to avoid getting pregnant for 6-12 months afterwards.

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Was it confirmed it was a molar pregnancy?  Kelly had implied it was a blighted ovum that didn't expel, but the lack of formation of an embryo could apply to either one. 

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Can anyone remind me what Erin's husband Chad does for a living?

He works with Zach at a metal fabrication plant in the area. He also has construction skills; he built a porch for the house and a chicken coop. 

 

If Erin had the molar pregnancy and was basically told not to get pregnant for x number of months, I wonder if they resorted to birth control? No way they have abstained for this long! 

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He works with Zach at a metal fabrication plant in the area. He also has construction skills; he built a porch for the house and a chicken coop. 

 

If Erin had the molar pregnancy and was basically told not to get pregnant for x number of months, I wonder if they resorted to birth control? No way they have abstained for this long!

Chad also is a wedding photographer.

Thanks for the answers. I also wondered about them having to use birth control. This might explain why there is no pregnancy announcement from them.

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Thanks for the answers. I also wondered about them having to use birth control. This might explain why there is no pregnancy announcement from them.

Michelle was told the dangers of her multiple pregnancies and the Duggars chose to discard those cautions so I'm wondering what the story is with Erin. Normally I wouldn't feel nosey about a couple's fertility but because of Gothard I'm interested in how each family deals with the pressure of his interpretation of the bible. Are Erin and Chad abstaining, using birth control or doing what Gothard dictates and just leaving their fertility up to God?

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Michelle was told the dangers of her multiple pregnancies and the Duggars chose to discard those cautions so I'm wondering what the story is with Erin. Normally I wouldn't feel nosey about a couple's fertility but because of Gothard I'm interested in how each family deals with the pressure of his interpretation of the bible. Are Erin and Chad abstaining, using birth control or doing what Gothard dictates and just leaving their fertility up to God?

I don't know why but the Bates just strike me as a bit more "reasonable" than the Duggars, even though they all have the same beliefs. They talk openly about how chemistry is important when courting and in a marriage, so I highly doubt they are abstaining -- or even able to abstain -- during the first year of marriage after having waited forever for sex. I wouldn't be shocked if they're using some BC or at least rhythm if doctors have told them to not get pregnant for a certain amount of time. I don't know why but Chad strikes me as the "protective" type, and as the headship I can see him being ok with BC or even insisting on it if it was a matter of Erin's health. Though the slippery slope with BC is that they may start using it and liking the freedom and not want to go off of it right away or want to go off to get pregnant and go back on for a while to ensure some time between pregnancies; though at that point they may be reminded that that's not what God/Gothard wants and once the medical need is passed, it's time to put it back in God's hands again.

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Has anyone heard if Michaela (sp?) got engaged? I haven't seen anything yet. Seems like a super long courtship by fundie standards.

Her boyfriend, Brandon, was in some Gothard "ministry" school for the past couple of years. He finally graduated in November with one of Chad Paine's brothers. Kelly said a while ago that she expected an engagement soon after. I'm betting on NYE, since that's when they started officially courting last year. 

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At the risk of being hopelessly stereotypical, Chad is a newlywed young man... I highly doubt he gives a horse's patoot about what color the walls are in the room that he's having regular marital activity, as long as he's getting regular marital activity. (I've not taken a poll of newlywed young men, but that was the impression I got from the one I married, at least)

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I'm seriously just snarking. I'm sure Chad and every other guy would care less if the room was painted purple with pink polka dots and hearts as long as he was getting it on. It's called sarcasm.

Good, haha. My room has tons of stuffed animals and a painting of a unicorn, and so far it's not stopped anyone!

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I'm not a man but watching my wife acting and looking like a 14 year old girl while making videos of hair curling which then accentuate her looking like a 14 year old might make me feel a little like a pedophile. 

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I'm not a man but watching my wife acting and looking like a 14 year old girl while making videos of hair curling which then accentuate her looking like a 14 year old might make me feel a little like a pedophile.

But, Chad has always seen Erin act like that. If he didn't think it was sweet, it would be odd for him to want to be with her in the first place. She's not underage even if she acts like a teen.

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I'm not a man but watching my wife acting and looking like a 14 year old girl while making videos of hair curling which then accentuate her looking like a 14 year old might make me feel a little like a pedophile.

I'd bet he thinks its ultra feminine and that he's hit the lottery of godly wife material and that its all just great and sexy as God intended. Just a guess. ;^)
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I'd bet he thinks its ultra feminine and that he's hit the lottery of godly wife material and that its all just great and sexy as God intended. Just a guess. ;^)

 

Probably true... and if all you ever want from a wife is unconditional adoration and baby-making, it probably doesn't bother you that your wife comes across as an emotionally stunted teenager. A full-grown, mature, educated, thinking adult woman would scare the crap out of most of these Gothard men.

Edited by 3girlsforus
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Watching the first episode now. A few thoughts:

1. Erin and Chad have impressed me so much. Erin  handled Whitney's baby shower with the maturity and genuine kindness that a lot of women with more "world experience" wouldn't be able to do. Good for her. Chad seems like a truly loving husband, and he seems to adore his wife. Also, he is pretty damn hot - especially considering some of his fundie competition.

2. Most of the Bates children are gorgeous, but Zach is looking a lot older than he is. And that's not really a compliment.

3. Parents seem to actually know their children, unlike the Duggars.

4. They served actual food at the baby shower. That would blow the Duggars mind.

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In the limited amount of exposure we've had to the Bates, they just seem better raised than the Duggars. Gil and Kelly are hard core fundie, yet they seem to know and love each kid as an individual, not simply as Blessing No. 3 or 13. If Chad and Erin aren't trying right now or have had to go on BC and Gil and Kelly know (not that they have to share - but it may have come out at the hospital that the dr. told them not to try for a while or whatever), I imagine Gil and Kelly saying "take care of your health right now and do what the dr says, when it's your time you will have a bus load of kids." If it was Josh and Anna going through the same thing, I can imagine JB making some version of the "well pray about it" -- i.e. I don't agree with you and drs. don't know everything, pray about it until you get to the conclusion that baby making is the only option -- which would only make the couple feel that much worse about not only losing a pregnancy but also being looked down upon by their family. And then if the couple still didn't get down to business, then I'd see JB making his dorky "son you'll never be able to get to my record of 19 if you don't get busy. HAR HAR" comment.

 

I just see Gil and Kelly treating each kid/couple as individuals. They probably realize that some of theirs may have a dozen kids of their own and some may only have 1 or 2 or be childless, and I don't see them ridiculing any of those things. Because their kids don't feel so judged or so "worried" about what their parents think, they act more like all other young adults. I'm sure Erin was able to be gracious with Whitney's shower because while I'm sure she's sad for herself, she knows she's loved by Chad and her parents and her mom isn't thinking any less of her. When asked by Nightline if she'd want 19 kids, Alyssa was very honest in saying she could not handle that many and couldn't see having more than 6 or 8. No Duggar offspring would feel comfortable being so honest bc of Mama and Daddy's wrath and would have to resort to "whatever God gives us."

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Watching the first episode now. A few thoughts:

1. Erin and Chad have impressed me so much. Erin  handled Whitney's baby shower with the maturity and genuine kindness that a lot of women with more "world experience" wouldn't be able to do. Good for her. Chad seems like a truly loving husband, and he seems to adore his wife. Also, he is pretty damn hot - especially considering some of his fundie competition.

2. Most of the Bates children are gorgeous, but Zach is looking a lot older than he is. And that's not really a compliment.

3. Parents seem to actually know their children, unlike the Duggars.

4. They served actual food at the baby shower. That would blow the Duggars mind.

Where did you find it? Is it being shown On Demand?

 

eta: Did they talk about Erin's "problems?" ie. confirm a molar pregnancy or whatever UP promised regarding her "fertility issues?"

Edited by Sew Sumi

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I personally believe that Kelly and Gil are better than the Duggars because they are both college educated. They didn't'  get married at 17 and 19. They are more loving parents because they don't think of their children as tools  for famewhoring. Kelly knows her kids and allows them out of the house to begin the process of growing up. No way would MEchelle ever do that she is keeping her kids at home because they must always be available for the next stink bus tour to promote hate. MEchelle doesn't want to get to know her children because that is WAY too much time spent away from her ME time. IDK but hands down Kelly and Gil come across as sociable, more loving and more accepting of what happens on a day to day basis.

Edited by Fuzzysox
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I personally believe that Kelly and Gil are better than the Duggars because they are both college educated. They didn't'  get married at 17 and 19. They are more loving parents because they don't think of their children as tools  for famewhoring. Kelly knows her kids and allows them out of the house to begin the process of growing up. No way would MEchelle ever do that she is keeping her kids at home because they must always be available for the net stinky bus tour to promote hate. MEchelle doesn't want to get to know her children because that is WAY too much time spent away from her ME time. IDK but hands down Kelly and Gil come across as sociable, more loving and more accepting of what happens on a day to day basis.

 

Completely agree.  Again, clear evidence that Mechelle's self-absorption and spoiled ways are impacting her children negatively. Most mothers the world over, even those with virtually nothing, see that their children's needs are met first. What little there is, mothers happily give to their children.  But not Mechelle - it truly is all about her.  If there isn't mental illness here, there is an absolutely Olympic-size ego.

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Where did you find it? Is it being shown On Demand?

 

 

I believe someone upthread said it was available on demand, but I'm not sure for which cable companies.  The premiere airs on TV Jan 1.

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the bates were probably normalized by the failure of their tv show. they didn't have their worth tied to the "and counting" part. 

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Where did you find it? Is it being shown On Demand?

 

eta: Did they talk about Erin's "problems?" ie. confirm a molar pregnancy or whatever UP promised regarding her "fertility issues?"

 

Sorry, just got home after a long day. It's available On Demand under UP for Comcast but not Verizon.

 

They confirmed the miscarriage but didn't go into detail regarding the specifics.

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OnDemand has the first episode up.

I like them much better than the Duggars. They have the same beliefs, yet the Bates kids just have so much more personality. And I just feel more love between Gil & Kelly.

Alyssa & John seem kind of off. I don't know how else to explain it. John didn't say one word & Alyssa seems flat, or just over it all. She talks about missing them since she's far away, but I don't believe her.

Erin & Chad are so sweet. Watching them talk about their miscarriage ( and she's had 3 I just read) is heartbreaking.

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The Bates' are pretty country to me, but I do think that it matters that their parents went to college and know what it means to be middle class even if they choose not to pass that on to their children through a degree.

But to me the biggest difference is that Kelly Bates has the gift of nurturing. Not all women do. Perhaps even most women don't. That Michelle doesn't have it wouldn't even be a real criticism if she'd stopped having children after, say, the first set of twins of even Jill. But her lack of ability to nurture really starts to show with Jessa, and gathers steam from there. She's admitted that she had to pray to have a "heart" for children,and in my opinion, that prayer was never answered emotionally for her, sadly. Kelly didn't need to pray for that, and that made far more difference than anything else the two families did or didn't do.

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Kelly reveals that Erin has had THREE miscarriages. With a molar pregnancy, how is this even possible? Unless Chad and Erin totally ignored the doctor's orders and started trying again, and again...

 

http://m.christianpost.com/news/bringing-up-bates-parents-share-reason-for-going-public-address-key-family-struggles-ahead-of-tv-premiere-video--131851/

 

Whatever transpired, I'm sad for her. Knowing this makes the baby shower scenes even more tragic.

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Was it confirmed Erin had a molar pregnancy? One could easily have 3+ miscarriages in a year or so if they were a blighted ovum or various other things that might cause an early miscarriage. If she's has 3 miscarriages in the relatively short time they've been married, I would expect her to be going to a fertility doctor by now.

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But wouldn't going to a fertility doctor be going against God's Plan? I don't think progesterone would help in Erin's case. Her miscarriages were probably all very early. 

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Kelly reveals that Erin has had THREE miscarriages. With a molar pregnancy, how is this even possible? Unless Chad and Erin totally ignored the doctor's orders and started trying again, and again...

 

http://m.christianpost.com/news/bringing-up-bates-parents-share-reason-for-going-public-address-key-family-struggles-ahead-of-tv-premiere-video--131851/

 

Whatever transpired, I'm sad for her. Knowing this makes the baby shower scenes even more tragic.

 

Then it sounds more likely that she's not had a molar pregnancy but rather miscarriages for other reasons.  I think the 6-12 months wait before trying to conceive after a molar pregnancy has to do with ensuring any remaining tissue that couldn't be surgically/otherwise removed doesn't start proliferating again due to the hormones produced in pregnancy (since molar pregnancies are marked by lots of hormonally-driven, uncontrolled tissue growth), and potentially become cancerous (like a choriocarcinoma, which Jen from The Little Couple had, and unfortunately led to a hysterectomy in her case).   In the case of a general miscarriage, I don't think doctors would recommend that their patients hold off on trying to conceive again for any prolonged period of time (unless they need more time to heal before they want to try again). 

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I think I remember Kelly blogging that Erin had a D&C but I don't think she said anything else so the type of pregnancy/miscarriage might have been speculation turned into fact through repetition.

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But wouldn't going to a fertility doctor be going against God's Plan? I don't think progesterone would help in Erin's case. Her miscarriages were probably all very early. 

 

Hasn't Kelly been using progesterone for the last few years to try to increase her odds of having a viable pregnancy?  Obviously progesterone won't help if the fetus has chromosomal abnormalities (which is a common cause of early pregnancy loss), but it will help the uterus be a more hospitable environment for a developing fetus.  I think there can be some scarring in the uterus in regions that held a previous pregnancy, so with Kelly's 19 livebirths (not to mention her increasing age), there's probably not much uncharted territory in there.

 

Anyway, from what I've read, the recommendation for a young couple (woman <35) who are having difficulty conceiving is to try for 12 months before getting a fertility work up (which would analyze the man's sperm count and quality, and the woman's ovulatory cycles, etc.).  (For a woman >35, the trial period would be reduced to 6 months.)  I don't know how miscarriages play into this calculation.  If Erin's lost three pregnancies in the last year, I think it would be reasonable to screen the couple for common causes of reproductive difficulties - endometriosis, PCOS, etc (other causes include STDS like gonorrhea that can scar the fallopian tubes, but I doubt that's relevant in Erin and Chad's case!).   

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When was their first MC -- sometime near the spring? If they've had 3 MCs in like 9 months, why not just stop trying for a while in order to recover emotionally -- even if physical recovery isn't an issue? I mean I'm sure they want a baby really badly, but to be on this cycle has got to be so painful for them, esp as others in their circle are getting pregnant left and right. It would be so much to be easier to be able to say to family and friends "it was a hard year for us, we're recovering and when the time is right we'll have kids." I feel like they could take the time to go to fertility drs who may very well tell them nothing is specifically wrong and then they can try whenever they feel like it -- they have years ahead of them; rather than feeling like every cycle is a change to try.

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First miscarriage was in late February, IIRC. Chad didn't put up the blog post (with pics of Erin after the D&C) until a few weeks later.

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I thought it was pretty well established among this crowd that medical help to aid in *getting* pregnant is, apparently, A-OK, but medical help to *prevent* pregnancy, is not, hence my wondering about a fertility doctor. As much as I feel rotten for any Bates (Duggar, etc) who feels she has to have a houseful of children when she would have preferred 2, I feel similarly rotten for any Bates (Duggar, etc) who has infertility issues but can't do anything about them when perhaps one round of Clomid would be all that she needs.

 

In the case of Erin - I had a miscarriage at the end of this summer, and the OB told me I only needed to wait for one period before trying again, and if I didn't get pregnant by the end of the year (3-4 cycles), to call the office (I got pregnant after one period, because I know you all want to know this). Of course, even if her OB did tell her to wait, if they're not using BC and aren't well acquainted with menstrual cycles and ovulation symptoms (I certainly wasn't as a newlywed), that could explain the multiple pregnancies. Obviously Erin doesn't struggle with *getting* pregnant, but there apparently is something with the *staying* pregnant, and I do hope that she's able to find out what's wrong and at least be able to have one or two kids.

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I don't think that it's okay for them to have "help" getting pregnant, only staying pregnant: Kelly used progesterone treatments to maintain her last two or three pregnancies after a couple miscarriages. Then again, we've never heard from an infertile fundie couple so it's really hard to say. 

 

I would think having infertility treatments would be going against "what God gives" them, taking the role of God into their own hands. ie. it would be highly hypocritical to do this if they truly believed that axiom, which *I* think is meant to justify the mega-families, not the other way around.

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I would think having infertility treatments would be going against "what God gives" them, taking the role of God into their own hands. ie. it would be highly hypocritical to do this if they truly believed that axiom, which *I* think is meant to justify the mega-families, not the other way around.

 

But it's a slippery slope - where do you draw the line?  Progesterone to help maintain an existing pregnancy?  Drugs to stimulate a woman's ovary to make mature eggs?  IUI (intrauterine insemination with concentrated sperm)?  IVF?

 

(Like others have mentioned, if Erin's been able to get pregnant easily, but the pregnancies are lost early-on, several of these options wouldn't make sense in her case, but I'm asking theoretically.)

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From what Kelly said, I always thought the first miscarriage was a blighted ovum.  Three miscarriages in a row doesn't automatically mean a trip to a specialist.  One of my daughters went through that before her first child.  All of hers were for different reasons and her OB did do some testing after the second loss, but said since they were all for different reasons it was just unfortunate circumstances.  She's had no miscarriages since.  She was advised to wait for a normal cycle after each miscarriage.  As far as taking time to "grieve" not all women grieve early miscarriages.  A lot has to do with preparation and attitude.  I tend to take a possibly more old-fashioned approach of don't get attached until viability and my daughters learned that from me.  The early miscarriages were more like an oh well, let's try again to me and to them.  Perhaps Erin has that kind of attitude. 

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The first episode of the new Bates show is sneak previewing on demand. I caught it yesterday by chance. They still seem way more normal than the Duggars. Not as much time in front of the cameras yet plus less personality disorder. I loved watching Gil go up in a tree with the chain saw. My dad was in the same business and did the same stunts daily. While it was very scary we just thought of it as normal.

I saw it last night & I thought the same thing, they are more "normal". Not as high strung. They all laugh a bunch more & the kids don't seem so overly coached. The mom is super sweet & more likable to me. All the kids are gorgeous & look either like their mom or dad. You can tell they are all siblings. I felt bad for Erin, it had to be hard for her but I felt they kept repeating it too many times. I felt like enough already, poor girl having to repeat it over & over. The end where the older boys were talking about being bachelors was cute. I could never see the Duggar boys or Jana talking like that.

Edited by LoLo
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They all have different personalities and they show it! It is really refreshing. You can tell that they are very close to each other.

Kelly and Gil can actually explain each of their kid's personalities, and "sweet" wasn't in the vocabulary!

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This is funny.  I have checked several times to see if my cable company carried UP and it didn't.  However, UP was listed On Demand, but no Bates episode.  Being it was Jan 1, I decided to check one last time and UP appeared on the cable line up!  I turned to it and the Bates episode was on although 22 minutes into it.  It's repeating the next hour though.  :) 

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