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S01.E10: 10


Tara Ariano
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Ugh, Cole's an asshole.  Yeah, pulling out a gun always solves things, how American.   I was hoping he would shoot himself.

Why do you think Cole pulled out a gun?

The problem with the conceit of the show is that I have no reason to believe that Cole pulled out a gun.

In Alison's version, Whitney knew that Alison would call Whitney's parents to tell them Whitney was at the Lockhart's ranch.

In Noah's version, Whitney was surprised and called Alison (or Cherry) a traitor

In Noah's version, Cherry and Scotty were present.

In Alison's version, Cherry and Scotty were nowhere to be seen

In Noah's version, Cole pulled the gun out to get Noah to stop beating Scotty and only pointed the gun at Noah

In Alison's version, Cole pulled the gun out because of what Noah and Alison did, and pointed the gun at Noah, Alison and then himself

In Noah's version, the gun scene took place outdoors

In Alison's version, the gun scene took place indoors

In Noah's vesion, Cole fired the gun

In Alison's version, Cole didn't.

If the showrunner wants to play the "different people remember what's important to them" card to that extent, why should I take anything at face value? Given their wildly diverging stories, why should I accept it as "truth" when two totally unreliable, and often lying, narrators happen to agree on something?

  • Love 22
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I worked for an old school, NY'er at one point and he would always say, "Hey, babe" when picking up the phone, even when it was a guy. Are we sure this isn't just that?

My dad wasn't an old school NY'er (Mississippi'er) and he called pretty much everyone male or female Babe, not in a gross paternalistic way, that's just the way he talked. To be honest, I didn't even pick up on the detective saying it until I read these comments however given that they made a point of using a male name, I think it was a reveal just super nuanced.

And what do you think Soooooooooooooooooondra thinks about Alvin being sent to the rubber room?

  • Love 4
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So who is the father of Alison's child?

 

I had trouble following the time line in this show, I'll  have to rewatch, but I think the day of the "gun" was about 4 months after the end of last week's show.  In which case I would think the child is Noah's because Alison didn't look pregnant to me on that day.

 

How long after the 'gun' event the final scene took place I have NO IDEA.  Clearly long enough for a baby to have been born to Alison. So it could be 5 months later, or a year later or whatever.

 

The scene where Helen asks Noah to come home was so sorrowful.  She misses her old life before the affair and wants it back (not an unreasonable response) not realizing it died a long time ago. Noah the husband doesn't exist anymore but she still hopes it's in her power to bring him back.  Thus the promise to be different, etc. There was still some of the old chemistry between them, because of their history together, but in Noah's version, she quickly reverts to the pattern of control, as in her decision to press charges, even though Noah isn't sure it's a good idea.

 

Since we are only getting Noah's and Alison's version of the truth, it's hard to know if Helen was as controlling and oblivious as has been shown.  The initial show seemed to show a pretty strong relationship between her and Noah.  I hope next season we get to see her version.

  • Love 6
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If the showrunner wants to play the "different people remember what's important to them" card to that extent, why should I take anything at face value? Given their wildly diverging stories, why should I accept it as "truth" when two totally unreliable, and often lying, narrators happen to agree on something?

 

Agree. The discrepancies in their stories about the gun-pulling incident were a bit much. I don't buy Treem's explanations. Memories are self-serving but Alison's were too much so (she talks Cole out of firing the gun); I found it all unbelievable. Noah...well, he's an asshole no matter how you cut it.

 

We still have the mystery about the murder of Scotty - a character that I have little interest in beyond the fact that he is the murder victim. What is the purpose of having this crime in the middle of a drama about adult relationships, particularly when the dead character has been so poorly developed? The crime is less about Scotty and all about Noah and Alison and whatever it is they did and how their relationship continues to destroy things around them.

 

I can't say that I am excited about S2 if it means watching Noah and Alison become the "happy" couple while Det. Jeffries pokes around the perimeter of the story. Noah annoys me every time he opens his mouth. 

 

Will the idiotic decision to deal drugs and then suddenly to stop dealing drugs ever be dealt with?

Edited by Ellaria Sand
  • Love 5
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The scene with the publicist was disgusting.  I am not as incensed about the idea of a married person having an affair as most of the people on this board, but hearing that asshole basically telling Noah that he was living the best life possible by leaving his wife and children was over the top.  

Keep in mind that this was Noah's remembering of it. The publicist may have said something much less supportive such as "Well, gotta do what you gotta do. You're making the best of it, I guess" which Noah turned into "Dude! You are SO awesome!" in his mind. Plus, he works for Noah, so he's more likely to express support for Noah's actions even if he doesn't really endorse what he's doing.

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Vaguely disappointed that the end game is to validate and reward cheating. Hope Season 2 does not degenerate into showcasing the cliched bitterness of discarded spouses. As much as I would love to see Maura Tierney chew that scenery, I really don't want to see the narrative of the overused spiteful, scorned ex-wife versus the angelic vision in white of Alison.

Well right now we are still seeing this all through the eyes of the two people HAVING the affair. I would love season 2 to be seen through the eyes of Cole and Helen.

How does Helen see her children? Are they really monsters or is that simply a construct of a unfit father?

How did Helen and Cole view their failing marriages?

Edited by Chaos Theory
  • Love 3
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Vaguely disappointed that the end game is to validate and reward cheating.

 

My bigger issue is that Treem et al are *telling* me this THING between Allison/Noah is genuine, real, "the most powerful erotic moment ever experienced". NOPE. NEIN. NOLO. I did not and do not see it. 

 

We have people like Phoebe and Max saying it isn't real, it's temporary, yet we have a furture narrative saying Yes it IS you just don't even KNOW. They are married, they have a kid, they have a lot of money,  your puny value judgements mean nothing to truest real erotic lasting love.

 

Come the entire fuck on.

 

 

it's hard to know if Helen was as controlling and oblivious as has been shown.

 

This was another tell not shown moment for me. Not that Helen isn't controlling and oblivious, or that she's a classic rich bitch, but that in Noah's version Cherry recounts how EVERYONE in the room has done HORRIBLE things, and I'm like UH not Helen. Not that I've seen. Bitchy/shitty things? Yes. But next to Noah, Allison, Cherry, Cole, Whitney, and Scotty? She is a damn choir girl.

Edited by blixie
  • Love 19
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I had trouble following the time line in this show, I'll  have to rewatch, but I think the day of the "gun" was about 4 months after the end of last week's show.  In which case I would think the child is Noah's because Alison didn't look pregnant to me on that day.

 

How long after the 'gun' event the final scene took place I have NO IDEA.  Clearly long enough for a baby to have been born to Alison. So it could be 5 months later, or a year later or whatever.

 

Since we are only getting Noah's and Alison's version of the truth, it's hard to know if Helen was as controlling and oblivious as has been shown.  The initial show seemed to show a pretty strong relationship between her and Noah.  I hope next season we get to see her version.

The day of the gun incident is about four months after Noah leaving Helen and taking the train to Montauk. Neither Alison or Whitney look pregnant. The present time when Noah gets arrested I think  has to be 2-3 years later. Enough time for his book to be published, that becomes a best seller and is about to become a movie. Bruce's publisher friend mentions he wants it published by next fall. which would be at least a full year later after the ranch gun incident. 

 

Noah's phone when he looks at the text message from Alison says September 4. I am not sure if this is a continuity error, as Alison mentions she is going back home since the summer is starting. 

 

Sarah Treem has alluded to the fact that we will see Helen and Cole's POVs next season. 

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I'm just not sure what to make of this show at this point. I don't believe Treem's explanation that because Alison and Noah would remember things differently someone could totally forget their worst enemy pulling a gun on their entire family (in Noah's case). Nor could I buy that Alison remembered her husband of 20 years who had previously been fairly tender/supportive/kind mostly to suddenly turning into a complete psychopath who threatened to shoot four people and then kill himself. (As I said all along, I find it odd that Cole's characterization is the one that varies the most of all four leads and doesn't really ring true wholly from either POV.)

People aren't *that* different even in varying perspectives. Helen's differences are subtle and make sense. I wish the writing for Cole was as well done. But regardless, I totally disagree that Josh Jackson doesn't show emotion. There was heartbreak all over his face when he realized Alison had come to the beach house not to see/talk with him but to sell it. And I thought he did the best he could with the very cliched/overwrought "I should just kill all of you" speech. When he finally put the gun down, he looked devastated and shocked before he fled.

Anyway, going forward I'm curious as to how Helen and Cole really could fit into the narrative if the marriages truly did kind of end at this showdown at the Lockhart corral. I guess they'll be witnesses at Noah's trial? The sad thing is I like everyone else so much more then Alison and Noah at this point that I'm not sure how much interest I can sustain in an S2 that focuses more on our lead couple.

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And what the hell was the "rubber room" Helen referred to?

It was a glorious institution of the NYC public education system - no longer in existence by 2012.   It's the airless room where Noah was sitting out his time, writing his best-seller, waiting for his disciplinary proceedings to proceed. And yeah, 2-year, paid stints in that room were quite usual.  http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126055157

 

But "rubber room" out of Helen's mouth was an odd word choice for the episode writer (Treem).  Only we NYers would know what she meant.

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I'm just not sure what to make of this show at this point. I don't believe Treem's explanation that because Alison and Noah would remember things differently someone could totally forget their worst enemy pulling a gun on their entire family (in Noah's case).

 

I've been a proponent of the "people naturally tend to remember the details that are most consistent with their own needs and character-formations" theory, but I too had a hard time believing that having his family threatened at gunpoint wouldn't be on the top of Noah's mind. I totally get that he'd prefer to see himself as a hero beating up Scotty and only being forced to back off because of Cole--that this scenario is more consistent with the view he has of himself or wants to have of himself--but if Alison's memory has any truth to it (a big if, I suppose), he just couldn't suppress that truth.

 

But now that I think about it "out loud" (as it were), maybe that's exactly what people actually do with events that are so traumatic they can't bear to remember them as they happened. It could be that Noah was so scared shitless in that moment that he's repressed the memory and invented a new one. Psychoanalysts have been observing the phenomenon for over a century.

  • Love 4
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I'm just not sure what to make of this show at this point. I don't believe Treem's explanation that because Alison and Noah would remember things differently someone could totally forget their worst enemy pulling a gun on their entire family (in Noah's case). Nor could I buy that Alison remembered her husband of 20 years who had previously been fairly tender/supportive/kind mostly to suddenly turning into a complete psychopath who threatened to shoot four people and then kill himself. (As I said all along, I find it odd that Cole's characterization is the one that varies the most of all four leads and doesn't really ring true wholly from either POV.)

People aren't *that* different even in varying perspectives. Helen's differences are subtle and make sense. I wish the writing for Cole was as well done. But regardless, I totally disagree that Josh Jackson doesn't show emotion. There was heartbreak all over his face when he realized Alison had come to the beach house not to see/talk with him but to sell it. And I thought he did the best he could with the very cliched/overwrought "I should just kill all of you" speech. When he finally put the gun down, he looked devastated and shocked before he fled.

Anyway, going forward I'm curious as to how Helen and Cole really could fit into the narrative if the marriages truly did kind of end at this showdown at the Lockhart corral. I guess they'll be witnesses at Noah's trial? The sad thing is I like everyone else so much more then Alison and Noah at this point that I'm not sure how much interest I can sustain in an S2 that focuses more on our lead couple.

 

Agree about Josh's acting. I thought that he pretty much nailed each scene.

 

If Helen and Cole (as well as the life in Montauk) recede into the background in S2, I may be out as well.

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The scene with the publicist was disgusting.  I am not as incensed about the idea of a married person having an affair as most of the people on this board, but hearing that asshole basically telling Noah that he was living the best life possible by leaving his wife and children was over the top.  

 

 

Keep in mind that this was Noah's remembering of it. The publicist may have said something much less supportive such as "Well, gotta do what you gotta do. You're making the best of it, I guess" which Noah turned into "Dude! You are SO awesome!" in his mind. Plus, he works for Noah, so he's more likely to express support for Noah's actions even if he doesn't really endorse what he's doing.

 

That's my take as well.

 

Given Noah's mediocre imagination, I find it difficult to believe that he wrote such a well regarded book that is now being made into a major motion picture.  Much more plausible is that Noah put out some hack job that a producer thought could be turned into a movie.

 

I find it impossible to believe that someone in publishing industry would describe Noah's work as "extraordinary" except in the literal sense of extra ordinary.  A middle-aged man has an affair and kills his lover?  Perhaps instead of writing novels, Noah should be writing the scripts for ID Discovery because they tell that story every day, every night, along with Noah's soft core porn.

 

Perhaps Noah is fucking multiple twentysomethings, and perhaps Noah isn't even paying for  it; hence the bit about Margaret Butler hiring a private investigator to follow Noah.  But Noah's so amazing that a newly engaged women just hops into bed with him without a thought orwithout even knowing his name?  That's not "extraordinary", that's Penthouse forums.

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But "rubber room" out of Helen's mouth was an odd word choice for the episode writer (Treem).  Only we NYers would know what she meant.

 

Yeah, but we NYers don't know it by any other name, so it's what Helen would call it. (Also: can you call in sick to the rubber room? Would they get a substitute for you if you did?)

 

I got a 'heh' out of Helen admitting she married her mother. That's gotta sting, right?

 

I find this show terrifically watchable and compelling. I don't think I'm rooting for anybody in particular, although I guess I have more sympathy for Alison than I do for Noah (so far, anyhoodle). There are lots of shows I look to for wish fulfillment, where I want the heroes to be heroic and the villains to get what's coming and the romance to be true and profound, but this certainly isn't one of them. I like it for the mess, artfully done. And hoo boy, I'm really enjoying not knowing what the fuck is going on. I didn't quite know how much I enjoyed an unreliable narrator, until this show gave me whole buckets of them.

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I've been a proponent of the "people naturally tend to remember the details that are most consistent with their own needs and character-formations" theory, but I too had a hard time believing that having his family threatened at gunpoint wouldn't be on the top of Noah's mind. I totally get that he'd prefer to see himself as a hero beating up Scotty and only being forced to back off because of Cole--that this scenario is more consistent with the view he has of himself or wants to have of himself--but if Alison's memory has any truth to it (a big if, I suppose), he just couldn't suppress that truth.

 

But now that I think about it "out loud" (as it were), maybe that's exactly what people actually do with events that are so traumatic they can't bear to remember them as they happened. It could be that Noah was so scared shitless in that moment that he's repressed the memory and invented a new one. Psychoanalysts have been observing the phenomenon for over a century.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Noah's POV ends with Cole pointing the gun at him, asking for a reason to not kill him. Does not mean it just ends there though. Cole waving of the gun and then pointing of the gun at himself still could happen, just not shown to us through Noah's eyes. Why is that? Not sure. 

  • Love 3
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I despised both Noah & Allison sooo friggin much that I couldn't continue to watch this show but I've kept up with what's going on thru everyone's posts and the wonderful recaps done by this sites blogger.

I don't have a problem with a show that has unlikeable leads as long as there is someone in the cast I can root for (ex. Game of Thrones) but holy cow everyone on this show is an intolerable, insufferable ass. The only one I do like are the spouses, Cole and Helen but I just don't like the way their characters are written. To constantly want to come back to their dead horse marriages really doesn't make sense for these intelligent, self reliant characters. Frustrating to say the least...

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Agree about Josh's acting. I thought that he pretty much nailed each scene.

 

If Helen and Cole (as well as the life in Montauk) recede into the background in S2, I may be out as well.

I'm right there with you.  For a show that has had me enthralled throughout the season, it suddenly just lost all its fascination for me.  Between the gun bullshit and the boredom that is teenage daughter subplots and Alison's retreat with her ding-dong abandoning mom, this episode was all over the place and really unsatisfying to me.  I'm surprised that they didn't toss in a cliched trip to the coast for Noah so we can see the asshole being wined and dined by movie producers (puke).  All I want to know is what the secret is that Alison and Noah are keeping about Scotty's death (that end moment of distrust between them as he's being carted off in handcuffs was really odd) and I don't see myself slogging through season 2 and/or 3 to find out.  The characters are becoming less interesting to me, and that is not a good sign.

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Elements in both perspectives this episode were completely unbelievable -- Noah is so amazing that he can easily lay anything with a pulse, then he's so amazing that he's written the best book ever and we'll start a false bidding war just so we can throw even more money at his feet; In one fell swoop Alison can save the lives of her lover, his wife and daughter, and her husband from himself; her lover is so overcome with gratitude and love for her that he again immediately dumps his wife and his freaked-out-just-had-life-threatened-at-gunpoint daughter to completely appropriately embrace her in the middle of her mother-in-law's kitchen.

Edited by IMCranky
  • Love 9
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I think anyone who has seen Waiting for Superman knows about the famed Rubber Room too.  

 

Well, okay, so that's what you're going with show?  All righty then.  

 

It always amuses me that shows like to treat Dominic West as if he is some irresistible Man Candy that no woman alive can turn down.  The Wire used to do that too, despite McNulty being such a drunk that he'd have smelled too horrible to be anywhere near (and was far too drunk to be getting it on at the level depicted) almost all the time.  So The Affair picked up that torch and ran with it.  Godspeed, fictional appeal, but I'm still not feeling it.  

 

Eh, I think I've just come to the point with this story where it feels a little pointless.  Infidelity isn't just explained, it's validated to the extent that "Oh My God, we get it, okay?"   Also, I sort of don't appreciate the suggestion that just because Noah was not particularly experienced, he's have to go on a Fuckfest of Anything That Will Hold Still to get his ya yas out.  

 

 

 

If the showrunner wants to play the "different people remember what's important to them" card to that extent, why should I take anything at face value? Given their wildly diverging stories, why should I accept it as "truth" when two totally unreliable, and often lying, narrators happen to agree on something?

 

Then there is this aspect.  

 

It's not that I think it's a bad show, the acting is great.  The writing is often good when it comes to character development, even though this silly murder plot seems to exist to make it something other than just another examination of Why Married People Cheat.  

 

But as just another examination of Why Married People Cheat, this show did a good job with Alison, at the very least.   She's broken, she's damaged.  She almost certainly has an attachment disorder brought on by being abandoned by her own mother on top of losing the only truly significant emotional connection she made with her own child.  

 

She's interesting but the memories diverged too much for me and things got pretty eye-roll inducing, for my part.  Then Cole's characterization is wildly uneven, to put it mildly.  The show went out of its way to make Noah just too grossly "typical guy, interacting with other typical guys as depicted by cliches on screens both big and small"...but I think the series did a good job with varying depictions of women that felt fully shaded and realized.  So it wasn't all ...middling...a lot of it was good.  

Edited by stillshimpy
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I don't find the lead characters unlikeable:  It's only in melodramas that audiences are conscripted into "rooting" for characters, and this show is clearly not a melodrama.  It's very post-modern in the true French New Wave cinema sense of that term.  It's a show that insists that audiences deconstruct it.l

 

Wilson is a stronger actor than West, so I find myself empathizing more with Allison than I do with Noah.  I find both Helen and Cole horribly unsympathetic -- Helen essentially wanted a house cat for a husband, and Cole is a drug dealer who rapes Allison in one of the show's earliest scene and exudes this Ponderosa patriarch vibe that wouldn't be at all attractive if he didn't have six-pack abs.  I guess I'm in a minority here, but I think the actor playing him is pretty awful, the weakest member of the cast by far.  Maura Tierney, in contrast, is very, very good at making me feel sympathy for an unsympathetic character -- if she doesn't get an Emmy for Best Supporting Actress, I'll stomp my pretty little foot and pout.

 

And I'm not buying Sarah Treem's explanation for the wide divergence in the gun memories at all.  Memories can be unreliable, of course.  To this day, no one can remember which of my little brothers I accidentally hit on the head with a brick when I was seven.  Jimmy thinks it was Jimmy; Teddy thinks it was Teddy.  I remember hitting Dane.  But this is an event that happened 25 years ago.  I don't think memories vary as much as the show insists they do over briefer intervals of time.  So clearly, there's some selective confabulating going on here on the part of the POV characters.  I like whoever's theory it was that Noah's version is actually the version he writes up in his novel.  That doesn't mean that Allison's version is necessarily factual, though.

 

It would be too easy for Noah to be the perp who kills Scotty, but I'm not sure that Allison can either -- strictly from a plotting point of view.  Noah's impulsive bribe offer was an obvious attempt to try to cover for someone close to him.  (Though I can't quite believe that anyone who's ever watched a single episode of "Law & Order" -- which I think is a prerequisite for living in NYC -- doesn't know all about forensic accounting.)

 

If there's some way the writers can put Helen in Mantauk at that time -- visiting her mother maybe?  I dunno -- I'd say she's the likeliest perp.  Allison's method of "saving" Noah next season, then, would involve somehow confronting Helen and getting her to 'fess up.

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It's only in Noah recollection that Cole rapes Allison. In hers the sex is concentual. And it's only in Noah's recollection that Helen essentially says she wanted a doormat for a husband. Both instances have more to do with him than reality

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i am so confused! LOL.

why are they dressed differently in Alison & Noah's memory?

i love the show and loved the episode but i just don't feel like noah and alison are IN LOVE... it doesn't seem like love. it seems like lust, like this desperate need where they recognized in each other what they were missing but... not love.

how could noah sleep with all these other women?! while being in love with alison. and why did he ever go back to helen if he left her in the 1st place?

i love cole. joshua jackson is such an amazing actor. anyway, really looking forward to the second season!

and despite all the cheating... i hope alison and noah do end up together. i don't really like their characters but you can tell they just... compliment each other really well.

also, i don't think helen ever loved the REAL noah. i think she loved what she wanted him to be.

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1. Why do you think Cole pulled out a gun?

The problem with the conceit of the show is that I have no reason to believe that Cole pulled out a gun.

2. In Alison's version, Whitney knew that Alison would call Whitney's parents to tell them Whitney was at the Lockhart's ranch.

In Noah's version, Whitney was surprised and called Alison (or Cherry) a traitor

3. In Noah's version, Cherry and Scotty were present.

In Alison's version, Cherry and Scotty were nowhere to be seen

4. In Noah's version, Cole pulled the gun out to get Noah to stop beating Scotty and only pointed the gun at Noah

In Alison's version, Cole pulled the gun out because of what Noah and Alison did, and pointed the gun at Noah, Alison and then himself

5. In Noah's version, the gun scene took place outdoors

In Alison's version, the gun scene took place indoors

6. In Noah's vesion, Cole fired the gun

In Alison's version, Cole didn't.

If the showrunner wants to play the "different people remember what's important to them" card to that extent, why should I take anything at face value? Given their wildly diverging stories, why should I accept it as "truth" when two totally unreliable, and often lying, narrators happen to agree on something?

 

I don't know that they're "lying" in these memories. Certainly, they've lied to Det. Jefferies. ("No. I've never been to The End." Cue scene going to The End.) But I think their memories are how they remember it happening. I don't think they're lying to themselves--or to the viewer. Noah tends to cast himself as the hero in his memories, Alison casts herself as the victim--but most people are going to be the star of their own memories because, well, they're the first-person narrator and they only know what's happening from their perspective. I'm glad to read Treem's email. Last night I was thinking it's TOO different. Wouldn't they both remember whether it was inside or outside and whether Cherry and Scotty were there? But I can fully accept Treem's explanation--Alison doesn't remember them being there because that's not what she was focused on. Scotty was THE reason for Noah to be there, but that "storyline" is insignificant to Alison--she's focused on Cole vs. Noah not Whitney and Scotty. And, for that reason, I think the other discrepancies can be easily hand-waved away.

 

1. They both remember Cole pulling a gun, so I have no reason to doubt that happened. I understand that the unreliable narrator can't be trusted, so we don't know whether it happened inside or outside, but I feel entirely confident that it happened. Based on Treem's explanation, I tend to think Noah's account of beating up Scotty outside is more accurate. Alison is focused on the emotions/words--Noah on the action.

 

2. This makes perfect sense to me. Whitney WAS there when Cole told Alison to call Noah. However, Noah had no clue that he was being "set up," so in HIS memory, of course his daughter would be angry that his parents are there and they obviously called them. I think it almost makes more sense that in Noah's memory he's putting Whitney's blame on Cherry, because he doesn't want to bring "the affair" into it--there was no scene with why did your mistress call you, etc.

 

3. I already responded to this point in my intro paragraph.

 

4. I don't think either one is "lying" here; difference in perspective. Noah sees himself as the sole person Cole wants to shoot, which makes sense to me because he's the one who f'ed his wife! However, from Alison's persepective, she sees Cole waving around this gun which puts EVERYONE is in danger in the situation. This also makes sense. I'm sure Cole WAS targeting Noah, but of course anyone else could have gotten shot. I tend to think Alison's own suicidal tendencies was skewing her memory of Cole pointing the gun at his own head. Why would she have been so concerned about Cole killing himself when she almost killed herself last episode? It's like she values Cole's life more than her own. She also values EVERYONE ELSE's life more than her own--telling Cole not to shoot anyone else--including himself--just shoot her. I can go either way on that one. It seems reasonable that she WOULD say that because she doesn't care about her life. But, at the same time, that's why it makes sense that she THINKS she said that even if she didn't. Meanwhile Noah is just all action--beating Scotty up for sleeping with his daughter, Cole threatening to kill him over sleeping with his wife. So, I think more discussion actually DID take place, but that's just not what Noah was focused on remembering. It's the opposite for Alison. She might not remember the fightining, but she remembers the heightened emotions.

 

5 & 6. I don't know whether it matters. If I had to guess I'd say it probably happened outside but Cole probably did not shoot the gun. There's no "evidence" of that other than because Noah is focused on the action, I tend to think the fight outside actually happened. Yet, I also think the gun shot DIDN'T happen because Noah's memory is going to amp up the action probably a bit more than what actually occurred. For instance, while I'm sure Noah was fighting with Scotty, I sort of doubt that Noah was beating the hell out of Scotty who was just lying there--namely, because Scotty is younger and stronger and in better shape than Noah.

 

I also thought it was interesting that in Alison's memory Helen had several bitchy comments to say to Alison directly or just general potty mouth, but in Noah's she just one time said "Stop staring at him [Noah]!" I think in Alison's memory she probably took that one comment in which Helen just couldn't take being in the room with her a second longer--especially when they're reconciling (that didn't last long!)--and in her mind turned it into this bitter woman berating her.

 

But, wow. So this whole ordeal was the impetus for Noah and Alison getting back together. That was really interesting. They both seemed perfectly fine moving on with their lives and NOT being together. I'm kind of glad that they had them each alone (well, Noah wasn't "alone" but not in a relationship either). So, they didn't leave their spouses FOR each other but just for themselves. I think this is how the writers are "redeeming" these characters by saying, see, they each took time to work on themselves alone yadda-yadda.

 

If Noah didn't run down Scotty, then whoever did was using his car. Surely he wouldn't give the guy $20,000 because he happened to change his tire that one time he snuck off to see Alison when he was supposed to be buying bagels! Yet, I don't think Noah did it. The only person he would go to such great lengths to protect would be his true love, Alison, no? Yet, that seems too obvious, too! Alison's line about (paraphrasing) "I'll get you out of this. You believe me, right?" Implies that she knows something about it at the very least.

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 Maura Tierney, in contrast, is very, very good at making me feel sympathy for an unsympathetic character -- if she doesn't get an Emmy for Best Supporting Actress, I'll stomp my pretty little foot and pout.

I found this interview with Sarah Treem really interesting because she didn't think Helen would be sympathetic either and what Maura Tierney really made out of the role:

http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/2014/12/the-affair-season-finale-interview

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I worked for an old school, NY'er at one point and he would always say, "Hey, babe" when picking up the phone, even when it was a guy. Are we sure this isn't just that? I remembered the Detective saying that because it made me think of my old boss.

 

The detective made up stories of being divorced to Noah and happily married for 25 years to Alison, and the show made a point to note that. The reality is that he's neither.

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It's only in Noah recollection that Cole rapes Allison. In hers the sex is concentual. And it's only in Noah's recollection that Helen essentially says she wanted a doormat for a husband. Both instances have more to do with him than reality

i agree, both noah and alison do it with the spouses.

alison makes helen seem like a bitch in her memory (probably out of guilt) & noah does the same with cole.

and it's also the other way around - alison makes cole seem like someone who didn't support her well enough and noah make helen seem like someone who never loved the REAL him (although i think it's true).

they both imagine the spouses worse than they are in order to justify their actions, i think.

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I don't think either one is "lying" here; difference in perspective.

 

I dunno.  I could be completely out to lunch here or at least running foul of Webster's Dictionary, but to me, there's kind of a difference between lying and confabulating.

 

I mean, confabulating is what you do when you're telling an anecdote to a group of friends at a party, and you change the details so that in subtle, nuanced ways, you become the hero of that anecdote.

 

Lying is a flat out technique for manipulating the truth to your own advantage.

 

Assuming that "The Affair"'s audience are kind of stand-ins for party guests, what Noah and Allison are doing is confabulating.

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One inconsistency I'm wondering about is when Cole says that he's been with Alison for 20 years. Isn't she supposed to be 31 or at the most 32 by now? 

Also, if it's 4 months after Christmas, then it's late April. in New York, that's still cold enough to wear long sleeves and sweaters, not sundresses. It looked more like June.

We haven't seen Whitney with Scotty at all in this series, other than the time they were at the house during that party. Yet Whitney tells her parents that she loves him, even now 4 months after her abortion....really? Has she actually seen him/beein in touch with him all of this time? You'd think a 17 year old girl would have tried to move on after that

experience. 

I didn't like how Noah treated Helen when they first decided to get back together. She's caught up in kissing him and all he wants to do is get it on doggy style, and it seems like 

that wasn't at all what she was expecting. And by showing him with about 4 or 5 young women and only being separated for 4 months, both from his wife and his lover, not only does he come across as a sleaze bag, he doesn't appear to have any emotional attachment to any of these women. They might as well have been prostitutes.

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I must have missed it, but why did Whitney run away to Cherry's house?  I mean, it's supposed to be 4 months later, so it's 4 months after Whitney's abortion.  Why would she run away then?  Is that because she knew Helen was talking about pressing charges against Scotty?

 

And why is Helen NOW talking about pressing charges against Scotty?  Shouldn't they have done that 4 months earlier?

 

Also, if it's 4 months later, 4 months after the end of summer, it should be JANUARY.  The Hamptons wouldn't be all green, and Allison wouldn't be wearing short sleeves or no sleeves outside.  They'd all be wearing winter coats.

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If Noah didn't run down Scotty, then whoever did was using his car. Surely he wouldn't give the guy $20,000 because he happened to change his tire that one time he snuck off to see Alison when he was supposed to be buying bagels! Yet, I don't think Noah did it. The only person he would go to such great lengths to protect would be his true love, Alison, no? Yet, that seems too obvious, too! Alison's line about (paraphrasing) "I'll get you out of this. You believe me, right?" Implies that she knows something about it at the very least.

 

I don't think that Noah did it either. And I agree...perhaps too obvious that he is doing this protect Alison. Would Noah risk his newly acquired wealth and fame to cover for anyone? Not so sure.

 

Maybe if we had a better idea of the events that transpire in the future that cause someone to run-down Scotty

 

It always amuses me that shows like to treat Dominic West as if he is some irresistible Man Candy that no woman alive can turn down.  The Wire used to do that too, despite McNulty being such a drunk that he'd have smelled too horrible to be anywhere near (and was far too drunk to be getting it on at the level depicted) almost all the time.  So The Affair picked up that torch and ran with it.  Godspeed, fictional appeal, but I'm still not feeling it...

...It's not that I think it's a bad show, the acting is great.  The writing is often good when it comes to character development, even though this silly murder plot seems to exist to make it something other than just another examination of Why Married People Cheat. 

 

Not feeling the Man Candy aspect of Dominic West either. Not in The Wire and not here. He has "arrogant prick" stamped on his forehead.

 

The "silly murder plot" perplexes me. It involves a character with little development and minimal screen time who is killed a few years into the future. Clearly, there is a gap of information here that would cause Det. Jefferies to suspect Noah and/or Alison. This has to go beyond Whitney's pregnancy and the maybe-it-happened, maybe-it-didn't altercation between Scotty and Noah at the ranch.

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how could noah sleep with all these other women?! while being in love with alison.

That is perfectly understandable to me. As I used to tell people who questioned my behavior when the man I loved was unavailable (he had died), "love is love but a girl still needs to get laid." My life was falling apart and this aspect, I could control and enjoy. Some people are willing to indulge that biological imperative more than others, even when others standing in judgment find it distasteful.

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The detective made up stories of being divorced to Noah and happily married for 25 years to Alison, and the show made a point to note that. The reality is that he's neither

 

I don't know about real life detectives, but the detective who lies to a suspect is a common habit of TV detectives.

 

But when did Noah's recount of events suddenly morph into the detective's point of view? Noah wasn't present for the conversation with the mechanic or the phone call from Steve.

 

 

One inconsistency I'm wondering about is when Cole says that he's been with Alison for 20 years. Isn't she supposed to be 31 or at the most 32 by now?

 

He said they had known each other for twenty years. 

Edited by neonlite
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Noah mentions that he never fucked around as a man in his teens and 20s.  Not surprising that he's exercising that particular perogative now.  It's not even a male fantasy, particularly.  It's a rite of passage for many people of both genders.

 

Cole didn't say he'd been married to Allison for 20 years, did he?  He said he'd known her for 20 years.  I assume since they were both locals and the winter population is small, they first met as school mates.  Middle school, I'd guess.

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But when did Noah's recount of events suddenly morph into the detective's point of view? Noah wasn't present for the conversation with the mechanic or the phone call from Steve.

 

That wasn't the first time we've had Detective Jefferies sleuthing scenes. It's not supposed to be part of Noah or Alison's memories--they're just squeezed in there as there's no  Part 3: Detective Jefferies title screen. ;-)

 

I have to say that his phone call from Steven made me LOL. That was such a great little tidbit that he's been lying to both Noah and Alison about his wife/ex-wife.

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That is perfectly understandable to me. As I used to tell people who questioned my behavior when the man I loved was unavailable (he had died), "love is love but a girl still needs to get laid." My life was falling apart and this aspect, I could control and enjoy. Some people are willing to indulge that biological imperative more than others, even when others standing in judgment find it distasteful.

i see your point & it definitely makes sense. i was also thinking, maybe noah tried to forget about alison with these other women?

he never cheated before alison (if i got that correctly) but after alison, he just didn't care anymore. just goes to show how broken his relationship with helen is and how gone all the feelings are. he is OVER it.

you know... i remember reading this interview with sarah treem about the affair and she said that it's a story about two good people who love their spouses and have good marriages but then find each other... after everything that happened, i have a feeling that both noah and alison were unhappy for quite some time before they even knew about each other's existence.

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So I guess they got together and had a baby. Well I hope Helen and Cole get to be happier in the future without the cheaters in their lives.

 

No one has mentioned this yet, but I think Allison has two children now and only one of them is Noah's. When she was being interrogated by the detective, she mentioned having to pick up "her son." I now assume she was talking about picking up a son from his biological father (either Cole or Oscar). She/Noah really do deserve Oscar in their lives for the next 18 years. After having a son, I presume she and Noah went ahead to have one of their own - a daughter.

 

Yes, Joshua Jackson is hot. But he's the weakest actor in this cast, by far. He can show anger by raising his voice, but he really doesn't express any emotions.

 

I must disagree with this. I don't think Maura and JJ have (yet) been given really strong material to fully showcase the range/depth of their characters. For Cole, this somewhat happened today and I thought JJ's talent really shined through this episode. The pained look on his face when he was pointing the gun at Noah and then Allison was so powerful - I could almost feel his pain in that moment. I also loved the delivery of the line about him finally understanding what Allison saw in Noah, because she certainly, "didn't respond to kindness."

 

I agree with other posters that although I love how well the roles are acted, I cannot tolerate the characters of Noah and Allison. They are full of unrestrained selfishness - it's their needs, their passions, their feelings, above all else. They really do deserve each other. I am not in any way invested in their "love story" - it's hard to root for people whose behaviour so appalls and disgusts. For me this goes beyond passing a judgment on the affair itself - but extends to how they have chosen to treat their partners in the aftermath of it all. 

 

That being said, I am invested in the show and looking forward to season 2.

 

 

What is the purpose of having this crime in the middle of a drama about adult relationships, particularly when the dead character has been so poorly developed? The crime is less about Scotty and all about Noah and Alison and whatever it is they did and how their relationship continues to destroy things around them.

 

According to Treem, the murder happens 4 years after the affair. I think much time will be dedicated to developing the character next season (at least there had better be).

Edited by Beebee111
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Not feeling the Man Candy aspect of Dominic West either. Not in The Wire and not here. He has "arrogant prick" stamped on his forehead.

 

There are lots of people who find 'arrogant prick' to be a particular version of virility, and are attracted to it. Especially, perhaps, in show business, where 'arrogant prick' is the default setting for success. Those of us who don't prefer that tend to stay out of showbiz. ;)

 

I really liked that drapey white top of Helen's in the 'come home' scene. I tend to really like how they wardrobe Tierny, now that I think of it.

 

One other thing: can Scotty be stupider for not looking out a window to check/see if the Sollocar is gone yet before bounding into the kitchen? Yeesh.

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I'm glad to read Treem's email. Last night I was thinking it's TOO different. Wouldn't they both remember whether it was inside or outside and whether Cherry and Scotty were there?

If the show runner needs to resort to using e-mail, interviews, etc. to explain what is going on during the episode, then she's failed the most fundamental aspect of story telling.

 

But I can fully accept Treem's explanation--Alison doesn't remember them being there because that's not what she was focused on. Scotty was THE reason for Noah to be there, but that "storyline" is insignificant to Alison--she's focused on Cole vs. Noah not Whitney and Scotty.

If Alison isn't focused on Whitney, why is Whitney present during the entirety of Alison's gun scene?

 

And, for that reason, I think the other discrepancies can be easily hand-waved away.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think the show runner is a little too caught up in her "different people remember different details" conceit, to the the point where it breaks, not merely strains, credulity. Perhaps because it's a handy, and lazy, way to deflect criticism.

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The day of the gun incident is about four months after Noah leaving Helen and taking the train to Montauk. Neither Alison or Whitney look pregnant. The present time when Noah gets arrested I think has to be 2-3 years later. Enough time for his book to be published, that becomes a best seller and is about to become a movie. Bruce's publisher friend mentions he wants it published by next fall. which would be at least a full year later after the ranch gun incident.

Noah's phone when he looks at the text message from Alison says September 4. I am not sure if this is a continuity error, as Alison mentions she is going back home since the summer is starting.

Sarah Treem has alluded to the fact that we will see Helen and Cole's POVs next season.

Was going to post this timeline but you beat me to it!

I was also confused about Alison stating that it was the beginning of summer and Noah's phone clearly saying September 4.

What is going on there?

Edited by Sarahendipity
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In reference to the Treem article linked to above:  

 

 

d this interview with Sarah Treem really interesting because she didn't think Helen would be sympathetic either

 

Here's what she said about Helen's character and what Tierney did with her: 

 

 

 

The actress plays Noah’s jilted wife, Helen, and Treem confesses that she never expected Helen to be such a sympathetic character.

 

Italics and bolding mine.  I didn't take that to mean that Treem didn't expect Helen to be sympathetic, but rather that Tierney rendered Helen to be even more sympathetic than she thought, so mileage varies there. 

 

Not feeling the Man Candy aspect of Dominic West either. Not in The Wire and not here. He has "arrogant prick" stamped on his forehead.

 

Oh thank goodness it's not just me.  Treem was talking about how Dominic West has undeniable sexual allure or something and that they wrote Noah to be nerdier at first, more of a wallflower, but West's potent sexuality just couldn't be ignored (I am barely paraphrasing that) so maybe it is just something that knocks people over in person, because whereas he's a gifted actor, I just have never seen the appeal.

Edited by stillshimpy
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I must have missed it, but why did Whitney run away to Cherry's house?  I mean, it's supposed to be 4 months later, so it's 4 months after Whitney's abortion.  Why would she run away then?  Is that because she knew Helen was talking about pressing charges against Scotty?

 

And why is Helen NOW talking about pressing charges against Scotty?  Shouldn't they have done that 4 months earlier?

 

Also, if it's 4 months later, 4 months after the end of summer, it should be JANUARY.  The Hamptons wouldn't be all green, and Allison wouldn't be wearing short sleeves or no sleeves outside.  They'd all be wearing winter coats.

 

So Noah got kicked out of the house 4 months ago, which was around Christmas time (remember Alison And Noah meeting up in Brooklyn?). He went to Montauk to meet Alison but she didn't want anything to do with him or Cole. So for 4 months Noah enjoyed the life of a single man in New York. In the meantime, Helen's mom hired a private detective who uncovered that video of Noah and Scotty. Only then does Helen find out that Scotty was the baby father and she wants to press charges. Whitney hears this and runs to the ranch to warn Scotty.

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If the show runner needs to resort to using e-mail, interviews, etc. to explain what is going on during the episode, then she's failed the most fundamental aspect of story telling.

 

If Alison isn't focused on Whitney, why is Whitney present during the entirety of Alison's gun scene?

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think the show runner is a little too caught up in her "different people remember different details" conceit, to the the point where it breaks, not merely strains, credulity. Perhaps because it's a handy, and lazy, way to deflect criticism.

 

You make a good point. I mean, I understood what Treem was going for before reading her emailed interview. But I understand that it's alienating a lot of viewers. It reminds me of Lost. I LOVED Lost! I loved that you HAD to dissect everything and talk about it with others to truly get the full picture of everything that's happening. This show is like that, too. It's only by reading posts from everyone here do I have a fuller appreciation for the depth of this show. But for the average person sitting home on a Sunday night that's not going to think about it again until the next week, yeah, they must be thinking WTF am I watching and just not understanding what the point of the show is. I personally like that it's different from anything else on TV. I don't think that she necessarily failed as a storyteller; I think her writing is just smarter than most Neilsen-ratings-backed programs.

 

Obviously Alison knows Noah came for Whitney so Whitney features prominently in her memory. I was commenting on why Scotty wasn't there in her memory--she doesn't care about the Scotty part. Hmm. Interesting that she worries about protecting everyone else from getting shot--including Cole himself--but not Scotty. Is it because Scotty was already dead by the time she was remembering this or because duh-duh-DUM she killed Scotty so she doesn't give a damn whether he lives or dies? (And, yes, this is one of the fun parts of thinking about this show that I meant. Did Treem intend for that to have any deeper meaning? Maybe not, but that's the beauty of this show that we can try to ascribe meaning to the differences.)

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I have to agree with that idea...if you have to explain what happened you didn't do a good enough job showing it.

 

A lot of shows wouldn't survive the forensic scrutiny that some of us put this show under. The reason why it hangs together, I suspect, is because the writers have thought through each of their episodes the way we do after it aires. And when you go through a story several times, you start to tinker with aspects of the story itself in order to make the fan scrutiny harder and more fun. The Game of Thrones book series is exactly like this, the writer has to know their story in order not to upset the cart when the tinkering starts. However, what happens is that the story on the surface gets wrinkled, it doesn't move from a to b in a way a casual fan would expect. So the challenge for Sarah Treem is how to play around with the aspects of the show that make speculation fun without alienating others without the energy to cope with it all. Hence the emails, tweets and interviews. 

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I get that the wildly different versions of what happened are just their different memories. But who, exactly, are they relating these memories to? At first, they were recalling events because they were being interrogated. But now they're not. So what's the point, exactly? Maybe that's an overly simplistic question, but the concept is starting to get on my nerves.

Edited by Bcharmer
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they both imagine the spouses worse than they are in order to justify their actions, i think.

 

That is pretty typical behavior when leaving a marriage.   The spouses leaving like to rewrite history.  

 

That's why I like this show.  I feel it's showing a lot of the reality of affairs and divorce.  My own experience with my marriage dissolving and other friends of mine who have gone through divorces shows that there is a "script" that almost everyone follows.

 

All the cliches about affairs and divorces are cliches because they happen so much.   

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