S01.E10: 10

[sasha206]

 

Joshua Jackson is sex on legs so Whitney's question to Alison was understandable. Seriously, middle-aged father of four...or Joshua Jackson?

 

Absolutely.  But affairs are rarely because the spouse isn't attractive.  It's usually excitement and escapism.  

 

But Joshua Jackson, wowza.  Guy is sexy as hell!

[Chaos Theory]

I am not sure where people are getting "raging bitch" from Helen. Even by Noah's account the worst she is is controlling and insensitive to those she feels are below her. I mean really, if the guy I'd been married to cheated on me and then said he was in love with the woman and wanted to leave.....eventually; I'd have acted exactly the same way. Fuck you get out now! Helen later found out that Noah had been less then Honest about other things but still wanted him back. I think her anger is more then justified.

Even after finding out that her husband has been on a sex-Athlon resulting in him being sent to the rubber room she still said "I will change". People don't change overnight. Anger does not go away overnight. Helen is not a raging bitch....Noah is.

Noah expected Helen to suddenly acqueess to his needs. All because he didn't want to see his mistress.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[minimilah]

I am not sure where people are getting "raging bitch" from Helen. Even by Noah's account the worst she is is controlling and insensitive to those she feels are below her. I mean really, if the guy I'd been married to cheated on me and then said he was in love with the woman and wanted to leave.....eventually; I'd have acted exactly the same way. Fuck you get out now! Helen later found out that Noah had been less then Honest about other things but still wanted him back. I think her anger is more then justified.

Even after finding out that her husband has been on a sex-Athlon resulting in him being sent to the rubber room she still said "I will change". People don't change overnight. Anger does not go away overnight. Helen is not a raging bitch....Noah is.

Noah expected Helen to suddenly acqueess to his needs. All because he didn't want to see his mistress.

i'd love for helen to be like - honey, you can leave anytime you want! & just hooked up with max or someone else, LOL.

but yeah, the show is very realistic. where there js anger, there is always pain beneath.

[Cirien]

I dunno where people are getting "raging bitch" from Helen either. Like, yeah 20 years later she was able to articulate the fact that she thought Noah was "safe" but while she might have on some level recognise that Noah was someone who wouldn't cheat on her....as opposed to all those other men she could have but on the surface at least, had the qualities she hated in her father.

There's nothing wrong with choosing someone because they're "safe". It doesn't mean that she didn't fall deeply in love with him. But of course it's not "Romeo and Juliet "romantic love". So what Noah hears is "I thought you'd be my bitch"

[Higgs]

Noah went to see Helen with a half mil in his pocket, and with the almost certain prospect of a lot more of that, plus fame, to come. He had no needs to which she was asked to, or had to, acquiesce, except one: to be needed. When she said that she did ("I miss you. I can't do this alone."), he stayed.

Helen's insistence on prosecuting Scotty was completely, and deliberately on the part of the writers, out of character. It would have mortified and alienated Whitney. The insistence on harming an older man for having consensual sex with a much younger woman represented displaced rage at Noah's betrayal with Alison. Helen was entitled to her rage, but not to her obliviousness to the collateral damage it would have inflicted on her daughter. Does Dr. Gunderson know about this?

[Mayday]

While Helen's insistence on pursuing Scotty was very likey, as Higgs suggests, misplaced anger about an older man bedding a younger woman and did indeed show a degree of obliviousness to the impact on her her daughter, I do think it pales in comparison to Noah's obliviousness towards his wife and daughter when he rushed to comfort Alison in the aftermath of what must have been a terrifying experience for them and which was an indirect consequence of their affair.

And, of course, if he had told Helen that Scotty was the father rather than deciding to take that moment to tell her that he didn't "want this life" and wanted to leave (sometime), perhaps they might have been able to have an adult conversation and make a more measured decision together.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Mayday

[IMCranky]

Helen was entitled to her rage, but not to her obliviousness to the collateral damage it would have inflicted on her daughter. 

Noah's (and Alison's) obliviousness to the collateral damage of their actions seems to be the basis of this entire show.

[Boundary]

I hardly think that Helen is a "raging bitch" but she has been passive aggressive and uppity. However, that's small change compared to the damage she's had to endure. I don't speak for others and my point all along is that I am not interested in balancing the books - a vengeful Helen, or Noah/Alison's comeuppance. I'll freely admit the reality of the situation but the writers' focus isn't (so far) on damage limitation, it's on what attracted the two adulterers to each other. The world is messed up, sometimes you can't right all the wrongs.

[Valhalla]

he confronts the wife he has not missed, who, lo and behold, finally expresses a need for him: "I miss you. I can't do this alone." Because being needed is what he needs, he stays.

 

 

I think this is exactly right.  Rightly or wrongly, Noah feels almost entirely superfluous to his life with Helen and the kids.  None of them need him (in his mind) for anything -- not financial support, not emotional support, not anything.  It even explains why he followed up the discovery of his daughter's pregnancy with the announcement he wanted to leave Helen.  He'd just heard Helen and Whitney talking and realized how Helen was basically saying exactly the right things to Whitney, while he had no clue what to do or say.  Of course that was still a Class-A jerk move.  But yet again, he's just a placeholder in his own life with Helen and their kids.

 

I thought it was really interesting that Noah started to back off reporting Scotty to the police but ended up attacking him anyway.  It actually falls out along the kind of class lines that the show keeps hammering on.  Helen's "sort" of people fight things with lawyers and the authorities because the system works for them; but Noah's "sort" learn they can't really depend on getting that kind of support so are more likely to resort to settling matters themselves.  I do think Noah did something to Scotty.  Noah's memories have been shown to be self-serving but not outright delusional, which you would pretty much have to be to imagine you knocked someone to the ground and strangled them.  Also, to get meta for a minute; the writers playing around with how people's memories change to give different shades of meaning to events is interesting, but having the characters fully invent events that didn't take place at all is just boring.

[sasha206]

I am not sure where people are getting "raging bitch" from Helen. Even by Noah's account the worst she is is controlling and insensitive to those she feels are below her.

 

I agree.  Even in his recollections, she comes off as a woman with a great sense of humor, who seems pretty low-key and her reaction to his cheating is certainly understandable.  We've only heard her kid say something about her "high standards" but her actions sure as hell don't seem to indicate them.  She's a good mom, loving wife, with a good sense of humor.   The only downfall to Helen is she isn't exciting enough to Noah and has the frumpy mom look (despite his two friends talking about her being some gorgeous woman).  And he can't "save" her like he can Allison.

[Higgs]

Noah's (and Alison's) obliviousness to the collateral damage of their actions seems to be the basis of this entire show.

I used "obliviousness" to characterize Helen's disregard of Whitney's screamed feelings in wanting to prosecute Scotty. I hereby retract that charge. I was wrong. Helen, as did Noah in his massively egotistical, guilt- and testosterone- fueled attack on Scotty, had heard Whitney's objections loud and clear, and didn't at all mind if she suffered. Somewhat vindictive, cruel, non-liberal parenting, maybe. Oblivious? Hardly.

The one thing Helen did that mattered in regard to being oblivious was in not recognizing the impact her father's money had on Noah, and, hence, on their marriage. But Noah had accepted (sought out?) that bargain from the outset, and was too much of an emotional coward to ever complain. ("You know, you never gave me a chance. You never said, 'I'm different now. I want something else.'") Guilty and guilty.

When Noah chose Alison in the Lockhart dining room, not only was he not being "oblivious" to anyone or anything, he had had a moment of revelatory clarity in which everything had snapped into sharp relief. (As they say, an impending execution can focus the mind.) He had felt his heart ache much more for Alison's peril than Helen's, and took the only honest path open to him.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Higgs

[Otherkate]

 

He had felt his heart ache much more for Alison's peril than Helen's, and took the only honest path open to him.

 

More than Helen's or his daughter's, for that matter, who had just had - we think - a loaded gun pointed at her. God, he's so gross.

[Milburn Stone]

More than Helen's or his daughter's, for that matter, who had just had - we think - a loaded gun pointed at her. God, he's so gross.

 

Hey, the heart wants what the heart wants.®

[Constantinople]

Noah went to see Helen with a half mil in his pocket, and with the almost certain prospect of a lot more of that, plus fame, to come. He had no needs to which she was asked to, or had to, acquiesce, except one: to be needed. When she said that she did ("I miss you. I can't do this alone."), he stayed.

 

After Noah turned Helen around, bent her over and took her doggy style.

 

In his Episode 1 POV, Noah watched Cole rape Alison when she was in a similar position, and in his Episode 2 POV, Noah jerked off to it.

 

I don't think that's a coincidence.

[JudyObscure]

Oh, Constantinople, thank you for watching the sex scenes closely so I don't have to.  I love this complex show but I'll admit I have to look away sometimes.  Why we had to see exactly what Noah did with all his easy pick-ups is a mystery to me.

[Higgs]

After Noah turned Helen around, bent her over and took her doggy style. In his Episode 1 POV, Noah watched Cole rape Alison when she was in a similar position, and in his Episode 2 POV, Noah jerked off to it. I don't think that's a coincidence.

It was no coincidence alright, but it was much more, and worse, than that. What Cole did to Alison wasn't "rape", it was consensual role-playing*. What Noah did to Helen was declare and exert his new-found psychological power balance in their marriage. When Noah thought of anal with Alison, he didn't do it, he teased her and discussed it. These differences have profound implications, and are also not coincidences.

Just to be clear, as far as I'm concerned, Ruth Wilson's transcendent performance makes me think of this show as "The Waitress". The only rooting I do is for Alison to find peace and contentment, and whether it's with Cole, Noah, me, or taking vows as a nun, is immaterial.

*Ep.2:

N: "Married people don't fuck like that."

A: "Marriage means different things to different people."

Edited December 29, 2014 by Higgs

[Boundary]

After Noah turned Helen around, bent her over and took her doggy style.

 

In his Episode 1 POV, Noah watched Cole rape Alison when she was in a similar position, and in his Episode 2 POV, Noah jerked off to it.

 

I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

Astute observation, tempered with the proviso that we don't know all of Helen and Noah's sexual positions, they've known each other 25 years after all.

 

 

 When Noah thought of anal with Alison, he didn't do it, he teased her and discussed it. These differences have profound implications, and are also not coincidences.

 

 

She lied to him though, or maybe lied to Mary-Kate about having tried it with Cole once.

 

Besides, what's with all the sex discussion?!! We have so much of it it's become plot point (better than the gratuitous GOT nakedness which mostly add nothing to the show, if ask me).

[Muffyn]

After Noah turned Helen around, bent her over and took her doggy style.

 

In his Episode 1 POV, Noah watched Cole rape Alison when she was in a similar position, and in his Episode 2 POV, Noah jerked off to it.

 

I don't think that's a coincidence.

In Noah's POV he seemed to view the sex between Cole and Alison in a negative way, perhaps viewing it as or close to rape.  In Alison's view it was consensual sex.  The issue being discussed was how Noah viewed it, masturbated to it and used a similar position with Helen.  At the same time, clearly this could be a position that Noah and Helen often use and enjoy.  No one seems to be arguing that sex in varying positions or role-playing is bad among married partners.  The whole show is focused on how two different people see the same things inn different ways.  The poster was referencing how Noah saw it, not condemning the sex act when seen from Alison's POV.  

 

In Noah choosing this position with Helen in the emotional state they were in, it did seem like a power move.  That doesn't mean they haven't done it this way before.  It is more a matter of the timing.  

[stillshimpy]

In Noah choosing this position with Helen in the emotional state they were in, it did seem like a power move.  That doesn't mean they haven't done it this way before.  It is more a matter of the timing.

 

I think at the beginning of the series, when Noah talked to Alison about seeing her in the driveway with Cole and discovering he was her husband, Noah said, "Married people don't have sex like that."  We also saw Noah trying to have Helen look into his eyes during sex and then feeling hurt when she laughed at the face he was making.  

 

 I don't think it is that the position is one that Noah considered all that adventurous, it's a pretty common one, but rather that married people have sex (in his view) that is more emotionally intimate.  It seemed like the point was to underline that the reconciliation was not resonating on an emotional level for either Noah or Helen.  

Personally, knowing that he'd been off doing the do with a bunch of different people, I thought of a) condoms and then b) how sex had turned into more of a physical act vs. an emotionally based one for Noah since we first met him.  

[truthaboutluv]

Just binge watched this show and all I can say is that I hope both those two assholes burn in hell. I don't care if they're guilty or not, don't care what really happened to Scottie but I hate Noah so much I hope his ass fries in jail and him being in jail should give Alison a new reason to play the poor, tragic victim she's so good at. Cole and Helen were blessed to get away from those tools. 

 

Quick thoughts:

 

Judging by the fact the two assholes are together in their big fancy NY apartment and apparently have a child, I guess we were supposed to buy this supposed "love story" and be rooting for them. Well I'm sorry but the writers fucked up big time because after watching all episodes the only thing I felt for Noah and Alison was loathing. I guess that's one reason I am happy they're together since they kind of deserve each other.

 

And I am supposed to buy the great love story yet I find it very interesting that for the four months they were separated, Alison went on some "finding herself" expedition while Noah banged every piece of ass he could find to the point of getting written up for disorderly content. But I guess I was supposed to believe he was just so broken up over her that he was being self destructive. Yeah WTFever...

 

So happy Cole got to show some anger this episode. Not so thrilled with Alison's version of his near mental breakdown but considering this was Alison's version and Noah's was so different, I'm wondering how much of it was true and not Alison's narcissism remembering that moment as being all about her. But man was I cheering at every hateful thing he said to Noah that asswipe and especially when he called Alison out on her bullshit blame game about where was he when Gabriel drowned. Like you're the fucking pediatric nurse who didn't think to bring your kid to the hospital after he almost drowned. Plenty of blame to go around bitch but again, this doesn't fit Alison's image of herself as the poor, poor tragic soul. 

 

Meanwhile I loved everything about Helen in that scene at the Lockharts in Noah's memory. I loved her calling it a fucked up situation that Ma Lockhart was seriously trying to reason with her about her almost 30 year old kid sleeping with and knocking up her 16 year old daughter and then trying to guilt her by mentioning that they'd lost the farm and then calling out Alison creepily eyeing Noah all wantonly the entire time all this is going on. Of course this is Noah's version and every version of Noah's story always had Alison all but panting after him with every breath.

 

And how interesting that his version has him being the big, protective father assaulting Scottie, when Cole comes with the gun but Alison's version is him just being a meek shit standing around as Cole calls him every name in the book even before he pulls out the gun. 

 

So judging by everything, I'm guessing Scottie's death is only a year or so later. It looks like Noah finished the book during the four months he was separated from Helen and away from Alison and the publisher guy seemed to be pushing for it to be out as quickly as possible. And I'm guessing he and Alison finally completely left both Cole and Helen after the whole confrontation at the Lockharts. 

 

I also get the feeling that whatever happened to Scottie, Alison may be the one with more culpability but they're both covering up, based on how she asks Noah to trust her and the look on her face when they're taking him away. It would also square with image Noah seemed to have of Alison in most of his memories - while Alison clearly saw herself as some broken, grieving, trapped victim, Noah saw a sexually aggressive and confident woman who all but threw herself at him the second they met. I have a feeling next season will see the unraveling of them as he gets in trouble for something she did and he starts to see her not as some great soul mate but this person who came in and ruined the idyllic life he'd had. 

 

Finally, anyone else totally get the feeling Noah might be cheating on Alison? That whole "meeting with an actor at some hotel" sounded cagey and like a lot of bullshit to me. Would serve her right seeing as if either of those two assholes versions are to be believed, while she may have seen someone to save her in Noah, Noah saw a young and willing piece of ass to take him away from his "boring wife" and "annoying children".

 

eta: I loved the nice little reveal that the investigator is gay, pretty much confirming that his stories about his divorce from his wife was just bullshit to gain Alison and Noah's trust during their interrogations.

 

but from my experience, people very rarely leave their relationships without the "help from the outside" - it's almost always leaving for another person. i think it's interesting... makes us humans look like the biggest cowards ever.

 

 

This so much. I saw a comment about Alison and Noah being strong or brave for having the "courage" to leave their unhappiness and I don't buy that one minute. There is no "courage" in Noah only leaving when he found himself a young, nubile, seemingly perpetually horny for his dick (in his memories anyway) woman and Alison only leaving when there was an alternative to "save her".

 

No, courage would have been Alison, long before she met Noah telling Cole how unhappy she was and going off on her own. Courage would have been Noah making a stand against Helen's in-laws and expressing that he would no longer accept being made to feel like some poor peasant they're putting up with.

 

Not to mention that in my opinion there is nothing brave or strong about doing the easy thing which is to just bang each other behind their spouses' back. True strength and courage is being able to walk away from bad choices even when they seem so easy. To me Alison and Noah were both the definition of weak. 

 

I forgot to mention that I too did enjoy Whitney's stating how old her dad is and not understanding why Alison would sleep with him. 

Edited January 2, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[shelley1234]

Yes, Joshua Jackson is hot. But he's the weakest actor in this cast, by far. He can show anger by raising his voice, but he really doesn't express any emotions. Ever. Even when pointing a gun at, well, a number of people, incl. himself.

I never watched Dawson's Creek, so sorry if this offends! I thought it just stood out, cuz everyone else is so good.

 

I'm a self admitted big ol' Joshie Jackson fan, so it is not shocking that I respectfully disagree.  I think Josh has always been able to pretty effectively convey emotion at the drop of a hat.  His face shows exactly where his character is at.  One of the best scenes of the whole series for me was Jackson sitting on the side of the street in NYC and talking to Alison about losing their son.  It's the first time I actually felt the loss of their child.  Alison talked about it a lot, but it's the first time I felt it.  

 

If we are to believe Alison's account in this episode, I felt most uncomfortable when watching Cole's breakdown and confrontation, but that is because I truly had no idea what he would do and how far he would take his pain and rage.  It got out of control, but I didn't see that as bad acting, I saw it as following where the character was at.  

 

i think they are married.

also... it was so weird when alison asked noah - do you believe me? why shouldn't he believe her?

 

I saw it as Alison giving Noah a friendly reminder to not deviate from the plan while he was in lockup.  

[truthaboutluv]

One of the best scenes of the whole series for me was Jackson sitting on the side of the street in NYC and talking to Alison about losing their son.  It's the first time I actually felt the loss of their child.  Alison talked about it a lot, but it's the first time I felt it.

 

 

This. As you said, Alison got to talk about the loss of Gabriel much more than Cole as we were getting her POV in the story and she was certainly presented in many ways as such a tragic and broken soul. Yet the only time I truly empathized with Alison was when she was talking to the doctor about the day Gabriel died and I felt the same about that scene as I did the one with Cole talking about his grief. Watching him talk about finding it hard to breathe and having to count but sometimes getting confused with the numbers was just heart breaking. I think both Ruth and Joshua sold the hell out of their respective scenes.

[Boundary]

We never knew until that penultimate episode exactly what happened because no one talked about it. All we had to go on was Ruth's portrayal. Alison's demeanour and the way others treated her or walked on egg shells around her, is what sold that tragedy to us. So I'm not surprised that Cole and Alison's monologues are what sticks to the mind but yes that tragedy was written all over this show right from the first episode, when Cole tells Alison to try to have a good day.

[Ellaria]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this post but...here it is anyway:

 

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/the_affair_season_1_finale_mystery_sarah_treem-2015-01

 

To quote Treem from this article on Zap2it:
 

The key event in the Season 1 finale is a confrontation between Noah (Dominic West) and Helen Solloway (Maura Tierney) and the Lockhart family over Scotty Lockhart (Colin Donnell) impregnating the Solloways' teenage daughter. In keeping with the show's M.O., Noah and Alison (Ruth Wilson) remember it differently -- but in this case, their perspectives diverge so wildly that it left viewers a little confused.

 

Series creator Sarah Treem says that wasn't the intention, but the demands of production -- including weather, actors' schedules and whether they could shoot outside -- led to some decisions that made what played out on screen look so different from Noah's and Alison's points of view.

 

"I personally didn't think hard enough about the choices we were making and how different the scenes were going to appear on screen," Treem tells Zap2it and a few other reporters at the winter TV press tour. "... So there were some things that happened in those final scenes -- they weren't understood as so different."

 

[Boundary]

The divergence in this episode is no more different than that episode when Noah told Alison about Oscar's phone call to the police. In one POV it was in Phoebe's house, in another it was at the ranch. People didn't throw a big fuss then. 

[JAndy]

Well in Noah's version, Cole was defending his brother from being killed by Noah with Helen and Whitney no where near them.

In Allison's version, Cole was so crazed he was going to shoot either Helen, Whitney, Noah, Allison or himself until Allison stopped him.

I know it would be difficult to show a third version about what happens, but for once, I would like the real version of what happened so I can know who is the bigger delusional liar. I sense it would still be Noah.

hahaha I know! I want to know the truth!

[Artsda]

I loved Whitney pointing out that Cole was hot and her dad old. LOL So true. 

 

Noah's version of the farm issues has him assaulting and more threats to kill Scott, Ali's didn't, no Scott at all basically.

 

All the flashbacking of motive, seem to not match with the present day. Why would they run over Scott over something that happened with Whitney years ago? Unless could he and Whitney still be getting together? If they are she should be around 20 at least by now. 

[paramitch]

Thank you, Ellaria Sand. This basically shows that all of Treem's previous justifications and hemming-and-hawing were crap. And that makes me really angry.

Series creator Sarah Treem says that wasn't the intention, but the demands of production -- including weather, actors' schedules and whether they could shoot outside -- led to some decisions that made what played out on screen look so different from Noah's and Alison's points of view.

"I personally didn't think hard enough about the choices we were making and how different the scenes were going to appear on screen," Treem tells Zap2it and a few other reporters at the winter TV press tour. "... So there were some things that happened in those final scenes -- they weren't understood as so different."

 

I understand production difficulties, but if you literally cannot recreate a believable sequence of events from an alternate on-site character's perspective, then you shouldn't shoot that day.

 

Sarah has defended this idiotic scene to the death and only much later has simply admitted it played far differently than they planned. So hey, why spend all that time and energy justifying those terrible decisions? The complete loss of character believability on multiple viewpoints? 

 

This scene enraged me beyond the telling. It wasn't just "Hmm, Alison saw it differently." It was, "Oh, hello, we the series creators literally do not believe any memory is viable (discounting whether childish or adult) and therefore also inadvertently seek to undermine the entire concept of rational, believable witness testimony."

 

I mean, come on, Treem.

 

There's a believable difference in perspective to be written about that kitchen scene with Cole. The idea that ALISON is the only one who sees Noah's wife and daughter being directly threatened is ridiculous (and yes I know many are fanwanking that took place outside, but there's not even a whisper of an inference that it does). There is no middle ground at all between Noah's view of events here and Alison's. None. I felt angry and insulted at what we watched and what we were being asked to believe. Then, just to really kick us in the nuts, Noah coldly ignores his poor wife and daughter after what they have just gone through, and goes to cuddle Alison. I think I blacked out, I was so angry.

 

I mean, really? Treem thinks these are really good people? As the ending stood here, I pretty much cheer any outcome for Noah beyond "happily ever after with his fellow selfish asshole, Alison." Meanwhile, the gulf in story between the two episodes was too much for me, and I felt insulted by the lack of resolution AT ALL. We deserved to know what the frame storyline was, what happened, etc. What we got was not enough. I will probably check out the show again in the future but have no plans to stay with it long-term -- the entire basis of the show doesn't work for me. I never saw the chemistry. I never saw the basic irresistible pull between these two people. I'm still not even convinced they know or like each other. The idea that they're cuddling in Noah's apartment like soulmates grossed me out. Consider me a lifelong member of Team Helen.

 

The problem with the conceit of the show is that I have no reason to believe that Cole pulled out a gun.

Agreed. I just didn't buy that character evolution, although I thought JJ did a nice job actingwise, but the two versions were too disparate for me to take them seriously.

 

The scene where Helen asks Noah to come home was so sorrowful.  She misses her old life before the affair and wants it back (not an unreasonable response) not realizing it died a long time ago. Noah the husband doesn't exist anymore but she still hopes it's in her power to bring him back.  Thus the promise to be different, etc. There was still some of the old chemistry between them, because of their history together, but in Noah's version, she quickly reverts to the pattern of control, as in her decision to press charges, even though Noah isn't sure it's a good idea.

I think some of these things are magnified in show-universe, not to mention, of course, in Noah's mind. Sure, season-long, Helen makes a few bitchy comments here and there (most more than justifiable for me). But we see in numerous instances that she also calls herself on it and reins herself in -- I loved it when she was being curt with Noah and he asked, "Do you want me to leave?" and she answered, quietly, "No." She has a right to be angry and distrustful -- her breakdown showed how much he meant to her, how much their lives meant to her, how devastated she was when he left. And that distrust was proven right in the end.

 

We still have the mystery about the murder of Scotty - a character that I have little interest in beyond the fact that he is the murder victim. What is the purpose of having this crime in the middle of a drama about adult relationships, particularly when the dead character has been so poorly developed? The crime is less about Scotty and all about Noah and Alison and whatever it is they did and how their relationship continues to destroy things around them.

This for me -- aside from the total lack of believability of this worlds-collapsing affair -- is the main problem with the season overall. The end result is ridiculous -- we get a faux-murder-mystery about a character we barely see, never get to know, and do not care about, in order to add a frisson of suspense to the overall insipid affair. I even wondered if the "present" scenes were shot at producer insistence to add that sense of danger to the show, after the fact.

 

Keep in mind that this was Noah's remembering of it. The publicist may have said something much less supportive such as "Well, gotta do what you gotta do. You're making the best of it, I guess" which Noah turned into "Dude! You are SO awesome!" in his mind. Plus, he works for Noah, so he's more likely to express support for Noah's actions even if he doesn't really endorse what he's doing.

But it wasn't a publicist. I see repeated references to this so wanted to clear that up:  The guy's from a publishing group. He is not a PR person. He's trying to make a publishing deal with Noah, not promote him. And yes, that conversation grossed me out. 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think the show runner is a little too caught up in her "different people remember different details" conceit, to the the point where it breaks, not merely strains, credulity. Perhaps because it's a handy, and lazy, way to deflect criticism.

I 100% agree with this, which is a shame, because I've found some of the memory work fascinating and well-reproduced throughout the season. But in the final two episodes it all really collapsed for me and made me angry. Just bad writing.

 

I actually don't think that Treem wanted me to cheer on Alison and Noah, but I do think she let the actors shape the characters too much across the board.  It can occasionally happen that a show-runner will like an actor so much, they change a part to fit their strengths.  But Treem let her casting decisions start dictating story decisions.  Wilson is so strong, so Alison becomes so strong too!   Whatever I think of the appeal of Dominic West physically, for me there's no denying that the guy has charisma, but half the point of Noah is that he was chosen, in part, for being timid and safe.

My main problem with this entire scenario -- and with Treem's discussions on casting -- is that she changed her vision of the show to fit the casting -- for instance, adding in this ultra-sexual hound-dog Noah when he was written to be kind of nerdy and quiet. This is a bummer for me, since I think the story of a quiet, bookish man rocked out of his existence by an affair is much more interesting than "McNulty trashes his marriage." I don't think West is a bad actor -- I liked him in "The Wire," and I do think he's handsome although he doesn't happen to float my particular boat -- but their entirely re-envisioning the character to suit his edgy sexual rapaciousness or whatever to me was a terrible decision for the show and character. And I was totally flashing back on McNulty in the end and wondering how many diseases this guy had caught during his "free" four months. All the more pitiable that Helen wanted the piece of crap back in her life. Ugh.

 

I enjoyed the show but think the writers really let us down in this episode. I honestly don't care what happens to Noah. I don't like Alison. And I don't believe Cole would pull a gun on an entire family and their teenaged kid.

 

The show's lyrics set me up in some ways for a fall, telling me to anticipate a story about outcomes, perhaps a beautiful, tragic chance of fate, in which a dying breath, or the touch of a hand, would have unseen and unimaginable consequences (for me, I'd suggest The English Patient as an example of a visual exploration of similar ideas that handles this with nuance and grace). But this show -- I never got there. I never saw the beauty of what they found in each other, that they saw (or thought they saw) each other. I was never even convinced they had good sex.

Edited February 18, 2015 by paramitch

[Bebecat]

I think the whole murder of Scotty bit was included to have a bit of a police/mystery storyline, since recent crime shows have been so popular. Trying to attract a piece of that audience. It is totally unnecessary and really, I couldn't care less who killed him. I guess they had Whitney get involved with him in order to link the whole thing to Noah somehow.

[Spartan Girl]

The thing I hate most about Alison is that she's so absorbed in her own pain that she fails to care about anyone else, especially the people she's hurting, and I think this episode showed that in spades. Not her family and sure as hell not Noah's. From her snotty response to the sister in law ("Just drive me back to the house and you never have to see me again") to that whole conversation with Cole. "I don't want to forget our son, I want to forget you." Who the fuck says shit like that?!

Not to mention the fact that she runs right back to Noah after Cole almost shot himself. Noah and Alison are unreliable narrators and that might not be how it happened, but still, geez!

[truthaboutluv]

What gets me about the whole notion that Alison and Noah may be unreliable narrators, is that they manage to still come across as selfish assholes in their own memories. That's what really got me because yes, as humans we can be unreliable in our memories especially when it comes to absolving ourselves of any blame and seeing things from our perspective versus another person's. But typically you would make yourself look good, you are the victim, etc. and yet both Alison and Noah manage to come across as selfish, awful assholes in their memory which begs the question, how much worse are they in the true, unbiased version? I mean speaking of Alison running to Noah after Cole almost shot himself, Noah ran to Alison after Cole pulled a gun on his very scared, very traumatized soon to be ex-wife and teenage daughter. The wife you can almost forgive, even if that is the mother of his children, asshole, but his KID was almost hurt and his first instinct and concern is the woman he was banging for a few months. Just awful, awful people.

Edited June 19, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[SlackerInc]

Before reading the thread, I'm going to just post some stuff I wrote as I watched:

 

Noah's "job" reminds me of Bighead's on Silicon Valley.   I'm sure no one is surprised that I drooled over the idea of what Tony Soprano would call a "no work" job.  It's not as good as the Holy Grail of a "no show" job, but still pretty sweet.  I'd do all my TV watching and PTV posting "on the job".

 

Pressing charges against Scotty is bogus.

 

Noah should leave Helen again, just for claiming he is like her awful mother!*

 

I have heard that people were a bit disenchanted with the finale (implying that these were people who had not felt that way about previous episodes), but that was the only way in which I have been spoiled.  I have to suspect the scene with Cole brandishing his gun at everyone inside the house was the issue. I did find that a little over-the-top and not in keeping with the more understated level of this drama.

 

I can't even begin to imagine how many nighttime shots of New York City I have seen in various movies and TV shows, but the one after the time jump may have been the loveliest of them all.

 

The music in the last seconds of the episode, as Noah was being arrested, was also cheesy and not befitting the show.

 

So that's too bad. I have been an ardent defender of this show, but those were some unfortunate melodramatic moments.  I can't stand shows like Empire or Scandal, or for that matter what House of Cards became late in its first season, so that was definitely worrisome. The good news is that I don't have to wait the better part of a year to see if they turn things back more in the direction I would hope for.

 

*As it turned out, of course, that was one of their final moments together as a couple. Good call, Noah.

Edited October 10, 2015 by SlackerInc

[SlackerInc]

Something that just occurred to me: it appeared on first glance that Cole and Alison had semi-equal shots to take at each other blamewise: "Why did you let him go underwater?" "Fuck you, why didn't you take him to the hospital?"  But what was stopping Cole from taking his son to the hospital?  Advantage: Alison.

 

From that Treem article:

 

The standoff between Cole (Joshua Jackson) and Noah went through many different drafts.

“We had to write that scene and rewrite it and rewrite it because I think the fear was that the scene was going to play like a different show,” Treem says.

 

 

Uhhh...wow.  So they saw that problem coming, and still kept it anyway.  You should have listened to that fear more, Sarah.

 

Eh, I think I've just come to the point with this story where it feels a little pointless.  Infidelity isn't just explained, it's validated to the extent that "Oh My God, we get it, okay?"   Also, I sort of don't appreciate the suggestion that just because Noah was not particularly experienced, he's have to go on a Fuckfest of Anything That Will Hold Still to get his ya yas out.   

 

I've said my piece (and then some) on why I always think it's wrongheaded to either wonder how to explain infidelity (or to explain it with more complexity than "we are social mammals who get attracted to others of our kind").  But I'm wondering: what does it mean "to get his ya yas out"?  (I am with the publicist or whatever he was: Noah's fuckfest looked like a lot of fun to me, even if the janitor had to get all puritanical on him.)

 

I don't find the lead characters unlikeable:  It's only in melodramas that audiences are conscripted into "rooting" for characters, and this show is clearly not a melodrama.

 

I would have said the same, until the last half of this episode.  It got very melodramatic IMO, to its great detriment.

 

That is perfectly understandable to me. As I used to tell people who questioned my behavior when the man I loved was unavailable (he had died), "love is love but a girl still needs to get laid." My life was falling apart and this aspect, I could control and enjoy. Some people are willing to indulge that biological imperative more than others, even when others standing in judgment find it distasteful.

 

Yes!  I heart this so much.  Thank you.

 

Sarah Treem, David Simon, along with many other directors/producers, are not complete idiots. The vast majority of men who look anything like male romantic leads in serious dramas can, in fact, seduce a much larger number of women of all ages than the average schmuck. It's even more true of those with bodies that look like they could easily swim 50 laps. No suspension of disbelief is required to find Noah's (or McNulty's) sexual exploits to be fully plausible. It's not being insinuated that he is irresistible to ALL women.

 

Another fantastic point.  In fact, we had his daughter wonder out loud what the deal was.  But although I'm a hetero male, I think I can judge other men's attractiveness reasonably well, and Noah definitely strikes me as someone who would be attractive to a lot of women, even if very much not attractive to others.  No one is attractive to everyone, and tastes really vary.  (My wife is not into actors like Chris Hemsworth, but her ultimate hottie in the celebrity world is Rivers Cuomo.)

 

I haven't seen anyone else mention this so maybe I'm just looking too much for clues ... but, why did they have the little conversation with Detective Jefferies and the car repairman about the money. The repairman asked if he could keep the money and Jeffries said that no, he had to return it in cash (emphasis mine). I don't know why, but that really stuck in my head as potentially something significant.

 

Oh, I 100% took it as Jeffries being dirty.  And this is minor league dirty, nothing Shield level.  A tow truck driver is getting money under the table and could run afoul of the IRS; Noah is offering bribes.  Jeffries uses the IRS as leverage against the driver, gets him to provide a tape that can be used as evidence against Noah, and Jeffries keeps the bribe.  No one is roughed up from or really even stolen from, except for the city or whoever was going to legally take the bribe money.

 

and affair is NEVER okay... i agree with you on that. i think most of us can agree that no one deserves to be cheated on. but from my experience, people very rarely leave their relationships without the "help from the outside" - it's almost always leaving for another person. i think it's interesting... makes us humans look like the biggest cowards ever.

 

I see it differently.  Most people don't pull up the moving truck and load their furniture in it until they have lined up a place to move to.  I don't think it's "cowardly" that they don't just move out and figure out where they'll live next later.  Same applies to relationships.  One can grow stale to the point that you are open to something better, if such presents itself; but that doesn't mean the extant relationship isn't "good enough" if no other option presents itself.  These are things almost everyone understands on some level, but most people don't want to admit out loud.

 

But you may be onto something big. The bribe payment could disappear. Why should Jeffries be immune from the yen to better himself through the self-imposed misfortunes of the mass market elite?  As far the the case goes, all he would ultimately have to sacrifice is the testimony of the mechanic to the bribe, not to the work he performed on Noah/Alison's car.  

 

Yup!  Good call.

 

Well he did try to kick the shot out of Scotty . Which is why the whole thing about he wanting to drop the charges was (IMO) bizarre. Unless it about him needing to be the alpha male?

 

Other people made good points about why it would make sense for him to want to drop the charges.  I will add one point about why he might have attacked Scotty here.  I don't think it was quite the same as the original time in the abortion clinic when he had just found out Scotty was the "father" and was seeing red over that alone.  This time, they had sort of settled things, and it looked like Helen might have even accepted whatsername's plea "mother to mother" not to press charges, with her assurances that Scotty would be walking the straight and narrow from now on.  But then Scotty bounds down the stairs and ultra-douchily asks his mom if she had "gotten rid of her yet"!  That was so obnoxious and it doesn't surprise me that it would set Noah off again.

 

While Helen's insistence on pursuing Scotty was very likey, as Higgs suggests, misplaced anger about an older man bedding a younger woman and did indeed show a degree of obliviousness to the impact on her her daughter, I do think it pales in comparison to Noah's obliviousness towards his wife and daughter when he rushed to comfort Alison in the aftermath of what must have been a terrifying experience for them and which was an indirect consequence of their affair.

 

I think this is highly unfair.  I have problems with that scene for being too melodramatic, but not at all the same problem you do with the aftermath.

 

Alison had also just gone through an experience that was not only terrifying, but horrifying in many ways.  And she had perhaps saved them from actual violence.  But it strikes you as only natural that she should then have to be all alone, while the three of them just take off?  The way Noah did it, he and Alison had each other for comfort, while Helen and Whitney had each other.  In theory, some other permutation that was a 2-2 split, or all of them staying together afterward to process it, could have been okay.  But in reality, of course, Noah is the only one who could be there for Alison.

Edited October 10, 2015 by SlackerInc

[RedheadZombie]

There's not a place to discuss season one as a whole, or individual characters, so I'll do it here.

I didn't initially watch the show because I have problems with adultery. After the show won awards, I marathoned it. I liked it, and recently marathoned it again to prepare myself for season two (I had initially ff'd generously) - this time I really liked it.

I typically hate an unreliable narrator - I went from thinking Gone Girl was an amazing book to hating it and feeling betrayed. I think it helps that, on this show, the misleading only lasts until the second half of the episode. It's fascinating that Noah sees Allison as the aggressor, and he sees her as much more beautiful than she thinks she is. I do tend to believe Allison's version over Noah's because it shows glimpses of self-loathing, and lack of confidence, and Noah's version tends to be very self-serving.

Unlike many here, I don't dislike Allison and Noah. I'm not sure I could watch the show if I rooted against them. There's something about Ruth Wilson - she really killed me on the re-watch. The scenes where she cuts, breaks down with the doctor, and then tries to drown herself (surely because that's what took Gabriel), had me in tears. The vulnerability and melancholy shows in every "Allison's version", and although Noah wants to believe that Allison persued him, I think he was drawn to that vulnerability.

I'm able to feel for Cole, but it took awhile for his pain to show. I thought his acting wasn't up to par with the other leads, but in the final episode he really killed it. I'm disturbed that he was so comfortable with drawing Allison into his drug business - and that also made me end up disliking his entire family, even those I initially liked - Cole's mother and SIL. I think his and Allison's relationship is the tragic one. They probably would have lived happily ever after if Gabriel hadn't died. They can't move on from the pain and seem incapable of comforting each other in any way but sex.

I don't care for Hellen. While I appreciate Maura Tierney's acting, there's just something about her that irritates me. While Noah shouldn't have cheated, I don't think Hellen treated him very respectfully. That was confirmed when she told him she married him because she thought he was too boring to cheat. Hellen is spoiled, and knowingly married a teacher who would never make a lot of money. She undermines him with the children - even before the affair. She lets her parents make constant jabs at him, yet never defends him, except to once tell her mother to stop antagonizing him. She wants to live a lifestyle that includes depending on her parents supplementing things such as her children's schooling, yet she clearly despises her parents. And although she might be happier if she would make herself independent of them, she won't because she's their sole heir and she wants the money. I did finally feel for her when she begged him to come back, and I do feel like she really loves him.

I think the frightening part, and perhaps the part that makes people uncomfortable, is that you can be in love with your spouse and have a satisfying sex life, but that might not be enough. These two may have never cheated if they hadn't met each other. Noah clearly has had opportunity, and was completely untrue mpted other than to be flattered. Allison slept with Oscar, but I felt it was more because she was really hating herself and self-destructive.

I also liked how Allison was so loving of her grandmother. And although she had a lot of anger for her ridiculous mother, she was able to forgive her and love her in spite of her faults.

[pasdetrois]

I just binge-watched season one (Verizon is temporarily making Showtime free to HBO subscribers). I've been reading this forum as I view the episodes. As always I'm enjoying everyone's savvy observations. Several of my own:

 

- With all the emphasis on Alison's affair, and the loss of her son, the fact that she's part of a major drug ring got swept under the rug. I mean, Noah left her (temporarily) because of it, but the viewers' outrage is over her affair. It's as if the fact that she was a drug courier for a long time means very little to the writers, who focus her navel-gazing on her child and her lover. Plus, wouldn't someone in the town have figured this out and ratted on them long ago?

 

- I assume she's notably younger than Noah. Interesting that not much was made of this in the show or here in the forum. Maybe she's 10 - 15 years younger?

 

- The detective is played by the guy who is Verizon FiOS' TV pitchman - every time I land on a certain channel, he's there, earnestly trying to get me to upgrade to faster Internet service. Also, as portrayed, the detective's passive role, with nothing but a few mumbled questions and a slightly sarcastic smile every time we see him, annoyed me. Have him do more, or less. He's literally like a pair of bookends.

 

- The Whitney actress is too thin. Even on my flat screen TV, whose proportions are off and make everyone look wide, she's skeletal. I worry for her. (I know she's a dancer; I watched Bunheads.)

Edited December 26, 2015 by pasdetrois

[cleo]

Really late to the show but I agree with everyone saying Noah is an asshole. For how he left his wife the first time, for going back and then leaving again. For not going after his wife and daughter after the gun was pointed at them, if it was.

I still feel sympathetic to Allison, not sure if it is her or Ruth Wilson, who is just incredible. Generally find her story much more interesting.

And I have never seen so much sex in a show that was so unappealing. Watching the first 10 minutes of this episode was almost nauseating. 

Love the detective, first time I've seen the actor outside King of Queens.

Edited February 20, 2018 by cleo

[millennium]

This episode was like an infomercial for male midlife crisis. 

Hey guys!  Now you can abandon your wife and family, fuck everyone from mistresses to perfect strangers, get suspended from that job that's holding you back -- with pay! -- write the great American novel and pocket a cool half mill.  AND have your wife grovel for you to come back to her, no strings attached!

I would have LOVED for Bruce Cutler to step in and strongarm the publisher:  Noah Solloway shit all over my daughter -- either revoke that offer and the advance or I take my books and walk.

Noah needs bad things to happen to him, in spades.  He IS a sociopath.

Just curious: did Dominic West and Joshua Jackson both get hit with a hatchet between the eyebrows?