Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

There have been so many spoilers and so many leaks that I think somebody, somewhere would have mentioned it.

 

 

We don't know that they'll be doing Kai/Gerda, but we know absolutely nothing of the Snow Queen either.  The only thing we know is that ME is playing her, what her costume looks like, she might own an ice cream shop and that she might be Elsa's aunt and that's pretty much about it.  I find it interesting that they have spoiled zero on that and don't seem to what to spoil anything.

[MaiLuna]

Is that book Adam tweeted with the script a new book where villians get happy endings or something like that? Maybe they tracked the book author and now there's a new book...

[Curio]

Episode 8 title: "Smash the Mirror"

Welp there we go the Kai/Gerda storyline. Now who is gonna get it.

Will it be Hook/Emma or Robin/Regina. I tend to go towards Robin/Regina because Robin understands Regina so this will turn him against her.

It looks like this episode was half written by David H. Goodman, who has written every Hook-centric episode so far. If I were to guess based off that, the Kai/Gerda storyline will go to Hook/Emma.

[Souris]

Filming spoiler:

Looks like OUAT is filming the trolls scene from Frozen soon…

 

I'm guessing not the EXACT trolls scene, but one set at the trolls' rock garden (there was one in the premiere with Pabbie).

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm guessing not the EXACT trolls scene, but one set at the trolls' rock garden (there was one in the premiere with Pabbie).

 

Did the trolls here look like the ones from Frozen, or more like the ones we saw in Snow Falls? Or is it a cross-breed? Don't mean to pester for spoilers, just curious.

Edited September 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

Did the trolls here look like the ones from Frozen, or more like the ones we saw in Snow Falls? Or is it a cross-breed? Don't mean to pester for spoilers, just curious.

 

The Frozen ones that spin from rock to troll and back again. It worked WAY better on Once than I thought it would.

[NotBothered]

 

There have been so many spoilers and so many leaks that I think somebody, somewhere would have mentioned it.  There'd be no reason not to, I don't think.

Maybe it's because I haven't been paying quite as much attention recently, but I feel like we honestly haven't had that many spoilers.  We've gotten a lot of the same spoilers (Emma and Hook will struggle! Emma will have to deal with her magic! Rumple and Belle will have a rocky patch! Regina, Regina, Regina!) over and over again.  I feel like we know 100% of 30% of plot right now (at least that's what I'm hoping).  Maybe they're learning, and pointing at the big flashy thing to keep the surprising things surprising.  Absolutely nothing we've seen or heard has surprised me outside of the business with Rumple, Hook, and the magical mystery hand.

 

I'm also not surprised that we know almost nothing about the Snow Queen.  Lana has said she's not really part of the Frozen plot, and most of the spoilers we get are somehow Regina related.

[Souris]

JMo interview. ::headdesk:: with the Regina stuff.

[Serena]

Oh God, JMO got the Regina Worship brainwash.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Serena

[KingOfHearts]

 

We discover some pieces of information that takes a turn that no one really sees coming, I didn't see it coming. It definitely adds a layer of intrigue into how everything fits together.

I have this wish that Emma has ties to magic stories in her past she doesn't realize, like a character in the Land Without Magic, etc. Not like Walsh or August, but one she just happens to interact with. Honestly I just want more Land Without Magic involvement when it comes to the storytelling on this show.

 

 

Oh God, JMO got the Regina Worship brainwash.

That's what I was about to say. She drank the kool-aid for sure.

 

 

The Frozen ones that spin from rock to troll and back again. It worked WAY better on Once than I thought it would.

 

Wow, thanks! It's hard to picture CGI that ​doesn't look horrendous in that scenario. But now I plan to be pleasantly surprised!

Edited September 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

JMo interview. ::headdesk:: with the Regina stuff.

Well asking about Regina is a pre-requisite.

 

JMO says that both Emma and Elsa have hurt people because of their magic?

[RadioGirl27]

Oh God, JMO got the Regina Worship brainwash.

Definitely. She is usually very insightful, but that answer about Regina is pure nonsense.

 

I have this wish that Emma has ties to magic stories in her past she doesn't realize, like a character in the Land Without Magic, etc. Not like Walsh or August, but one she just happens to interact with. Honestly I just want more Land Without Magic involvement when it comes to the storytelling on this show.

In the same interview, Morrison says this

Emma has an incredible amount of interaction with Elsa. They're actually quite connected because they're very similar. They both have powers that they don't understand. They both feel that they can't completely control those powers. They both have accidentally hurt people because of those powers.

This probably confirms that the surprising thing about her past it's that she hurted someone with her magic.

Edited September 25, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

That's what I was about to say. She drank the kool-aid for sure.

 

Wow, thanks! It's hard to picture CGI that ​doesn't look horrendous in that scenario. But now I plan to be pleasantly surprised!

 

I know, I was like "JMo, noooooooooooooooooo! Not you, too!" Stabby, right in the chest. That interviewer sure did ask a lot of Regina questions; IMO, it's pretty rude to ask one actor about a different actor's character in an interview. Maybe one question, but not multiple ones.

 

I do think she may have slipped up with that "both of them have hurt people with their magic" line. Because we haven't seen that on the show. So I think everybody who speculated that was her issue got it right.

 

And, yeah, I was utterly shocked that the troll CGI wasn't godawful. (At least on my computer screen; who knows what it will be on a high-def 60-inch TV.)

[Jean]

 

Oh God, JMO got the Regina Worship brainwash.

She probably just asked for A&E's bible for the talking points.  And she doesn't want to get harrassed by the Woegina crazy fans. I'm sure she's learned her lesson by now. Anyone have any doubts now they're the plan wasn't just a replay of Snow's story and to give Woegina another asskisser? I know now why Woegina seems to have the loudest fans. A&E have effectively chased away everyone else. If you're not her fan what's the point in watching? I'm seriously asking here.

 

 

JMO says that both Emma and Elsa have hurt people because of their magic?

Yeah that was probably an accidental spoiler but we all had it pegged anyway.

[RadioGirl27]

From TVLine

Is Once Upon a Time planning any flashbacks to Emma’s life in the foster system? –Marissa

I can’t confirm they cover her time as a foster kid specifically, but we will get a good, long look at a younger Emma (likely played by a different actress). And as Jennifer Morrison teased for me, “There is a bit of a curveball in the flashbacks that I did not see coming, one that definitely adds a layer of suspense to how all of the puzzle pieces fit together.”

 

I see everyone asking about a lot of relationships on Once Upon a Time, but they never ask about Regina/Snow. Will their relationship continued to be explored? –Ana

You’re in luck. Ginnifer Goodwin told us at the premiere party that fans such as yourself “will be very satisfied, because we do have many more scenes between the two of us. Lana [Parrilla] and I actually call the [producers] on a regular basis thanking them and asking them for more, because I personally find those scenes to be very powerful. The dynamic between them is so rich and we love exploring it.”

So both Snow and Emma are going to spend time with Regina instead of spending time together. The season is getting better and better (insert sarcasm here).

[Rumsy4]

Well, I'll just have to resign myself to the fact that this Show is never going to be what it was in S1--a mostly-character driven show, with Emma as the main lead. I think my blood pressure will fare better if I don't buoy myself up with false hopes. 

Edited September 26, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Jean]

I'm still bitter that they're really determined to ruin every single character at Woegina's altar.  It's insanity. I've never seen this degree of Mary Sue-ness and it's all based on fake crap. That's the most disturbing thing. I bet the writers' room looks like Crazy Joe's shrine to Elaine in Seinfeld with Woegina pictures. I'm really really hoping Robert leaves after this season. Cause you just know Rumple's next in line. I'm just not going to discuss the scum-sucking bottom feeding leech anymore from here on out.

 

So it's nice to see that we'll get confirmation that Emma can do magic in land of no magic and hurt someone as a kid. But is that the curveball Jmo is talking about? It doesn't sound that big of a twist to me. I don't want it to be as simple as a flashback to rip-off Elsa's story. Maybe they can tie the Snow Queen to it. Could she be one of Emma's foster mom that deliberately tried to trigger her magic? We are getting Emma's out of control magic in the Snow Queen's episode and the flashback is in the episode called Breaking Glass. It would explain why it's now coming out beyond the Frozen tie-in. I'm hoping they go all out campy and we see baby Emma with the spinning head and spitting green vomit.

 

Or maybe they'll tie it in to the Dark Curse origin? I feel like that should be a huge part of the season but so far we've heard nothing on it besides the Zoso filming and the Mickey Hat is probably part of it. I bet Rumple wants to find a way to get rid of the Dark Curse but still maintain his power. It'd be funny to see him annoyed with Elsa and Emma with their whining about not wanting magic.

[Souris]

TVGuide article:

We have to ask about Charming (Josh Dallas) and Snow (Ginnifer Goodwin): Didn't they think it was a little odd to have Emma's brother named Neal after her lover?

Kitsis: Yes, and also they're going to question whether or not they should have gone with Baelfire. Prince Baelfire sounds better than Prince Neal. I think that's something they're going to have to wrestle with in the premiere.

 

Great question, TVG. As for the answer? Total and complete bullshit alert! "Wrestle with," you say, Eddy? Yeah, that wrestling they do, it's one throwaway line from Charming that nobody even acknowledges he said. They wrestle with it for an entire seven words. Brutal, brutal discussion.

[Mari]

They wrestle with it for an entire seven words. Brutal, brutal discussion.

While this tendency to make throwaway comments seem like a really big deal is usually annoying, it also is what's giving me hope for some of the storylines and events I've heard leaked.

 

Hopefully, it means that some of the "Wonderful, rich relationship between Regina and Snow" as well as the Emma/Regina spoilers are a little overblown. 

 

(I know this is probably crazytalk.   Please don't pop my delusion bubble.)

Edited September 26, 2014 by Mari

[MaiLuna]

 

So the question is: How do you solve a problem like Maid Marian?

Adam Horowitz: You rip her heart out and move on.

The fact that they even joke about this...*sigh*

[Rumsy4]

This is too much like them joking about Graham's rape. Really--these two!!

[KingOfHearts]

I've never seen two people avert straight answers more than A&E. Remember when they were asked to define "soul mates"? They'll go into great detail about Regina's upcoming arc, but when it comes to deep issues like Graham or Neal, it's diverted swiftly. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

I was about to watch a YouTube video, and a new promo came on! It had a few new extra shots I haven't seen. Elsa and Emma were at the edge of town smiling around nighttime, and Emma said "Cool... unintended." While looking at Elsa. In another shot, Elsa is indoors and says, "I'm the queen." to Kristoff. Anna is on a boat smiling in another. Nothing much new here, just thought it was a pleasant surprise since I wasn't even hunting for a new ad. It was just a variation of other promos. I couldn't get a link because it was just an ad.

Edited September 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

Aww, I really want to see the Emma and Elsa scene! :( "I'm the queen" is from the premiere, I think. I've already seen it in other promos.

[YaddaYadda]

If the writers were smart enough and really wanted to name the kid Neal, they should've given him a middle name that everyone would just use.  Snow was talking about naming the baby after her father.  The whole name situation is retarded.  They should've just skipped over the line that they should've named the baby Baelfire instead because for me it says they messed up on some level.

[stealinghome]

Yeah, it seems to me that that line is Adam and Eddie's way of trying to throw a bone to the people who think it's dumb/messed up that the writers named the baby Neal. Except doing so just means you're admitting it was a mistake, so it's not really going to placate those people (and I include myself in that group, because what are you talking about Neal? That baby is named Prince Snowflake).

Edited September 26, 2014 by stealinghome

[Serena]

I can't believe there are, how many? at least 10 people in that writers' room and not ONE brought up the fact that "hey, maybe we shouldn't name Emma's brother after her former lover from when she was 16 that emotionally scarred her for life"??? Like is everyone in that place a Yes Man to Adam and Eddy's "vision"??

[Amerilla]

Yeah, it seems to me that that line is Adam and Eddie's way of trying to throw a bone to the people who think it's dumb/messed up that the writers named the baby Neal.

 

I'd guess it's more of an in-joke for the writers - a debate amongst the team over whether it should been Neal or Baelfire - rather than a nod to the audience., about whom I think they care the bare minimum. If the line was "Maybe we should have named him Fred?" I'd see it as an acknowledgement that they heard and appreciated some of the audience's complaints about it, but there's no evidence that they've changed their thinking about the shoddy way they wrote Nealfire's story or understand why some people may see it differently.

 

But it's still a stupid line. There's never an upside to making a main character look silly/weak/vacillating for no good, story-driven reason.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Like is everyone in that place a Yes Man to Adam and Eddy's "vision"??

 

Probably.  And calling attention to the stupid mistake seems just plain immature. 

[shipperx]

I sure hope so, I really liked her. The Knave isn't complete without her. YMMV.

I also hope that Anastasia shows up in the latter part of the season. Not only because I liked her, but because if she's supposed to be the Knave's true love (and I do think Wonderland earned that) then I don't understand how she can simply disappear with little or no explanation. He's had his heart ripped out, brought back, she's gone evil, redeemed herself, died for him, and got resurrected and...? She can't simply be MIA. There needs to be some sort of closure.

 

{edit to add}

Re: Regina,

 

I understand calling her a Mary Sue.  I get the agitation over "and everyone loves her! What's up with THAT?!" within the show.  But that's only one aspect of Mary Sue-dom.   

 

I can see it argued that Regina is a writers' pet (She is). 

 

But Sue's began their Sue-ishness over being self-insert characters and then morphed into the impossible girl who is spectacular at everything and without flaw and... that's not Regina.  Regina has huge flaws and makes catastrophic mistakes.  She's catty, selfish, quick to anger, etc even though she enjoys incredible favor with the writers.  And, for all the favor she enjoys from the writers, for all that they hand-wave many plot points, it IS a plot point that she's quick to anger and to push people away.  That's sort of her story so I don't think (in a purely definitional sense) that makes her a Mary Sue. 

 

An annoyance for many?  Clearly.  She enjoys both writers favor and  many an audience member's fuming rage.

 

But until the day she bursts out sugary sweetness and an ability to be kind and loving and giving and gosh-darn perfect to everyone, I'm going to hold off on "Mary Sue".   In a purely definitional sense, I don't think she qualifies. And I tend to try to resist the slow drift towards fandoms labeling any female character we don't like a "Mary Sue."  We can dislike a character for many valid reasons besides that. 

 

Though, at this point, I think it's swimming against the OUAT riptide to resist Regina (eventual) redemption. I can see hating to be swept in that direction, but the tide doesn't give a rip about hate... and the writers are the tide in a narrative. 

 

If the writers want redemption, that's the way the story is going to flow.  I understand and empathize with the vast majority of the points about the horrible, awful, frankly unforgivable things that Regina did. These are legit beefs to have. But...Regina is going to be given umpteen chances at redemption.  She just is.  My raging about it will only make me unhappy and it won't change the plot.  At a certain point it's time for me to sing the chorus of the Frozen song.

 

The narrative's memory is going to be somewhat tied to arc, what's more recent is more important to the immediate present than what happened three season's ago. It's totally unfair in a 'justice' sense that things like Graham's death is swept away... but in a narrative sense, the liklihood of their swinging back to deal with a story point from three years ago (involving an actor that they most likely cannot get back) is basically nil, because of that, they probably won't reference it again. That's a product of both TV production and the process of creating fictional arcs. Since the Graham killing, Regina has done the "I'll sacrifice myself to save someone else(Henry)" plot, the "I'll halfway play team player" arc, the "I'll play hero for once" arc.  No, it doesn't solve or resolve the issues of the Graham killing, but the narrative has moved on.   Next up: testing her to see how much she'll backslide... 

 

It's an incremental thing.  That's what's in the here and now.  It's what's playing off of what immediately preceded it.  And, while we may hate dropped and forgotten story points, they most likely aren't going to u-turn to 3 year old ones to deal with them if they're incompatible with telling the story they are on at present.  Sucks, if we really, really, REALLY wanted those points addresssed and feel like ignoring them is offensive.  But... *sigh*... that's just the way serial television works.  No, three years ago the show didn't plan out everything in advance and nail down how these things would be adequate dealt with.  Three years ago they didn't know they'd still be on air, or that they could license "Frozen".  TV production isn't novel writing.  They rarely get to plan very far into the future and thus are constantly toiling in the present.  It's frustrating for completionists, but it's a bit of the nature of the beast. Not even "Game of Thrones" which has a whole series of books to follow (albeit unfinished -- GRRM needs to write faster!) has everything planned out for them in advance.  Things happen that writers can't adequately address, they make mistakes, some story points do not work, and sometimes having a great memory isn't to the viewers advantage.  

 

Then again, I was one of the scant few who actually enjoyed the way that LOST ended.  (I never kidded myself that they were going to make much (any?) sense of the show mythology.  I had a background of having watched The X-Files and Buffy to have taught me that lesson about serialized TV.)

 

And I'm kind of looking forward to the back half of the season because Maleficent is going to be so PISSED!

Edited September 26, 2014 by shipperx

[Serena]

Another interview. This one is a bit less likely to give you a rage blackout, but not much new information.

[Mathius]

Regarding Anastasia's absence, I think it's just that she had to stay behind in Wonderland because she's the queen. Will isn't king yet (we know he will be later, but he isn't right now), so he can afford to go on otherworldly missions. She can't.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

 

it’s less about who Regina and Emma are with and more about who they are as people, growing.

They managed to fit Regina into a Captain Swan question. They got something on the brain, don't they?

 

 

But in all seriousness, the domestic situation of the Charmings, of Emma and Henry and of Regina, does fit into the early episodes. Now that they’re making Storybrooke their home, they’ve got to figure out things.

They better make good on this! I'm curious to know where Emma ends up moving.

 

 

Regarding Anastasia's absence, I think it's just that she had to stay behind in Wonderland because she's the queen. Will isn't king yet (we know he will be later, but he isn't right now), so he can afford to go on otherworldly missions. She can't.

Do we know when he became king though? I can't imagine Ana letting Knave world-jump to dangerous situations for long periods of time. If he's staying a while, she might started missing him!

 

Not too excited about the first few episodes... they seem very soap-opera-ish besides Frozen. The latter half and 4B, according to the spoilers, pique my interest with the Snow Queen and Maleficent.

Edited September 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

Do we know when he became king though? I can't imagine Ana letting Knave world-jump to dangerous situations for long periods of time. If he's staying a while, she might started missing him!

She has the White Rabbit, if she gets to a point where she needs to go see Will in Storybrooke she can use him. And I hope (and suspect will happen in 4B) she does do that, especially since Cinderella is gonna be back on the show (Jessie Schram was seen in Vancouver and was at the big Season 4 premiere event.)

[YaddaYadda]

They managed to fit Regina into a Captain Swan question. They got something on the brain, don't they?

 

The more they talk, the more I hate them.  Well Regina wiped out a whole village, she can't bloody well remember everyone she killed, now can she?

 

GTFO, writers!  It's like the more they say things, the more I wish they'd stop talking.

[Jean]

I think Anastasia is Will's mission. She's probably in danger or missing. I'm going to laugh though if the actress books another job and blows up their plan.

 

I think A&E really wanted to be head writers on Days of Our Lives and got rejected. No you fools, a villain doesn't have to be family to make the audience care or create drama, something you're allergic to anyway. I must've forgotten when it was revealed that the Joker was Batman's half-brother. Or Moriarty was Sherlock's step-daddy. WTF.  They're really a whole lot less clever or funny than they think they are.

[regularlyleaded]

Here's the best part of that tvline article, where Adam unintentionally summed up the entire bloody show in two sentences:

Horowitz: We’re trying very hard to put our spin on these different kinds of relationships. Hopefully it becomes less about the relationship itself and more about Regina.

 

For the record, I hate everything about this.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Horowitz: We’re trying very hard to put our spin on these different kinds of relationships. Hopefully it becomes less about the relationship itself and more about Regina.

 

If they ditch the Triangle of Doom and focus on Regina's character development, then I'm okay with it. There's really no way of dealing with the triangle that's not yucky. At least if they shift the spotlight back to her she could learn a lesson from the whole ordeal. One thing I'd hate to watch more than Regina's problems is Robin constantly going back and forth. It's a lesser of the two evils scenario.

Edited September 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[shipperx]

I don't think they're saying that the villain must be a blood relative.  I think that may be why they're mocking the blood relative thing.  Though of course I could be wrong and could be giving them too much of a benefit of a doubt, I think what they may be attempting to inartfully say is that a villain needs some sort of personal connection to the story.  There needs to be more than mwhahahahahaha! [/manical laugh]. 

 

Maleficent is coming back, but to date she hasn't had a blood connection to the main characters, and I'm willing to bet (for the moment) that she won't need to because they've already established connections to other characters which can be mined. 

Edited September 26, 2014 by shipperx

[kili]

But Sue's began their Sue-ishness over being self-insert characters and then morphed into the impossible girl who is spectacular at everything and without flaw and... that's not Regina.  Regina has huge flaws and makes catastrophic mistakes.

 

I think she gets called a Mary Sue because the writers so clearly seem to think that all those huge flaws and making of catastrphic mistakes are not flaws or mistakes - they are endearing foibles (like being clutzy) which everybody should quickly forgive and forget. Execute somebody's mother and plan to execute that somebody too? Not even worth reflecting on for a moment. Save a wife and mother from certain death? YOU ARE A HAPPINESS DESTROYER!!!!!11!!  Let us discuss it for several episodes (it is mentioned at the end of season 3, is a big part of the season 4 premiere and is probably the subject of the Emma/Regina episode that is being touted).

 

We really should just have a villain named, like, “Scott,” that has no relation to anyone – and then just watch the fans get bored and go, “Oh, now we get it.”

 

I say bring on this Scott. It would be much more realistic that some of the villains are not related. Frankly, I think somebody with a sensible motive would be refreshing and constantly related villains a little boring now. Sure, it's a fun twist once and a while, but not all the time. If Pan was just a man seaking eternal youth, he'd have still made a respectable villain. We didn't find out until the last couple of episodes that Pan was related to Rumple and we managed to stay engaged for 9 episodes  or so without that information. A Wicked Witch with a reasonable motive would have been fantastic. Wanting to have Regina's life when she seemed to have had a nicer adopted mom than Cora and she could have just magicked up her own mansion kind of took me out of the story.

 

But, with all this mocking of the concept of "Scott" in the interview, it makes me think that the Snow Queen must be related to somebody. Is it enough that she is related to Elsa or do you think somebody in the main cast has to be related to her? Belle's Mom has been cast but Hook and Rumple are still in the market for one. 

[retrograde]

I get that they're trying to say that "a villain that just shows up randomly and has no ties to the story or characters would be boring." Which is true. But. That doesn't mean the villain has to be the long-lost half brother of someone in town. There are other ways to set up those relationships and ties, and simply shoehorning in "Oh yeah, she's.... Snow's niece she never knew" is a lazy way to go about creating them. See: Zelena. 

[Crimson Belle]

 

We really should just have a villain named, like, “Scott,” that has no relation to anyone – and then just watch the fans get bored and go, “Oh, now we get it.”

 

Funny, that worked for Buffy for about 7 or 8 seasons.

 

And Regina is a Mary Sue because the head idiots in charge have their heads so far up the character's ass (in terms of nearly EVERY decision they make regarding this show being about that character and her gratification) that they have methane poisoning from her farts which they would claims smell like Chanel No. 5.

 

[Shanna Marie]

" In doing so, Hook — who will "do whatever it takes, good or bad" to maintain their romance — will be forced to decide whether "he can find a place for Emma within his heart when she's so busy trying to save the world," O'Donoghue adds.

I was thinking about this, and maybe this is where all the stuff in the promo materials about them being two damaged people comes in. We know what Emma's damage is, and we have hints of his, but it's possible that while he was patient about her recognizing and admitting her feelings, he'll have a harder time with her seemingly flip-flopping on him after having done so. He may not deal well with the emotional whiplash. A lot of her damage has to do with the things she never had, but his likely has to do with the things he's lost. Seeming to have her and then seeming to lose her might be difficult for him. Even before they were in anything remotely like a relationship, she made him something of a priority, kept him in the loop of what was going on and treated him like a partner or at least a teammate. If she goes off to save the world and leaves him out of it entirely once they are in a relationship, that might give him second thoughts.

 

I must say that I'm rather icked out at the thought of Rumple and Belle doing the iconic Beauty and the Beast dance at this point in their relationship. It's a marriage with a lie at its foundation, and then there's that nasty thing about the fact that he murdered his last wife for leaving him. In this morning's newspaper, there were two articles about men killing or trying to kill women who were leaving them, just in my local area (one murdered his wife the night before their divorce hearing, another attempted to murder his ex-girlfriend after she broke up with him -- he shot her while she was changing the locks on her house). This isn't fairytale violence that can be glossed over. And he still seems to be unrepentant, given that up until rather recently he was still trying to get revenge on Hook for "stealing" his wife, which suggests that he sees himself as the victim and the wounded party, in spite of him being the one to kill her and maim Hook. That's classic abuser behavior and attitude. That dance in Beauty and the Beast was a sign that he was trying to develop social skills to please her, to be more than just a beast, so it's all kinds of wrong to put Rumple into that role and to portray him as any kind of romantic hero. I'm getting to "strongly worded letter, including newspaper clippings, to ABC" levels of irritated about this.

[RadioGirl27]

Another interview. This one is a bit less likely to give you a rage blackout, but not much new information.

Every new interview makes me hate them even more. I actually want to see a bad guy that is not related to any of the other characters, who has a real, meaningful reason for being a bad guy and not because some ridiculous and contrived reason like envy, or that is a bad guy just because he is a bad person, without a tearful past.

I was thinking about this, and maybe this is where all the stuff in the promo materials about them being two damaged people comes in. We know what Emma's damage is, and we have hints of his, but it's possible that while he was patient about her recognizing and admitting her feelings, he'll have a harder time with her seemingly flip-flopping on him after having done so. He may not deal well with the emotional whiplash. A lot of her damage has to do with the things she never had, but his likely has to do with the things he's lost. Seeming to have her and then seeming to lose her might be difficult for him. Even before they were in anything remotely like a relationship, she made him something of a priority, kept him in the loop of what was going on and treated him like a partner or at least a teammate. If she goes off to save the world and leaves him out of it entirely once they are in a relationship, that might give him second thoughts.

I would love to see this explored. Both Milah and Liam died in his arms, so if Emma is constantly puting herself in danger, it should be hard for him, and at some point it should make him reconsider everything.

[ShadowFacts]

Maybe the dance as filmed was supposed to give off the creepy vibes, like the nighttime wedding in the forest with no guests.  No, I know it's not intentional.  I'm remembering a comic.con interview with Robert and Emilie I think, where the questioner asked about the domestic abuse undertones of the relationship and Robert looked visibly irked.  Like, what abuse?  The network, the showrunners, at least one of the actors don't get it.  I share your concerns, Shanna Marie, there isn't a place in this country where these scenarios don't play out weekly or even daily.

 

Apologies if this belongs in another thread, but I thought the dance scene reference would be too spoilery elsewhere.

[Mari]

I say bring on this Scott. It would be much more realistic that some of the villains are not related. Frankly, I think somebody with a sensible motive would be refreshing and constantly related villains a little boring now. Sure, it's a fun twist once and a while, but not all the time. If Pan was just a man seaking eternal youth, he'd have still made a respectable villain. We didn't find out until the last couple of episodes that Pan was related to Rumple and we managed to stay engaged for 9 episodes  or so without that information. A Wicked Witch with a reasonable motive would have been fantastic. Wanting to have Regina's life when she seemed to have had a nicer adopted mom than Cora and she could have just magicked up her own mansion kind of took me out of the story.

Replying in the villain thread.

[RadioGirl27]

From EW:
 

 

I want some scoop on Maleficent returning to Once Upon a Time. — Ryan
It should come as no surprise that Maleficent’s storyline will have a connection to Aurora, a.k.a. Sleeping Beauty—which in turn brings the hope that Mulan might also return. But Aurora isn’t the only character who should be worried about Maleficent’s return. The sorceress will not be too pleased about Regina having locked her up beneath Storybrooke. “They were frenemies,” executive producer Edward Kitsis reminds everyone, noting that what’s in store for the second half of the season will be revealed in the winter finale.

Of course everything it's going to be about Regina. Not that I had any doubt.

[YaddaYadda]

Maleficent should be pissed at the world when she comes back.  Yes, she should probably be pissed at Regina the most, but she should be pissed at Rumple, David, Emma, Hook as well.  If she's the black fairy, then she should be pretty pissy with Blue as well and did Snow get that dust from her?  And then there's Aurora...I hope they don't push these guys off to the side so that Regina can have another moment in the white light.

 

As much as I wanted to see Maleficent back because of all those hints about her and how they didn't forget about her in Season 2, I'm really dreading that 4B will be all about Regina and her Not!Boyfriend. 

[Serena]

This chick from ET Online says she's posting "amazing" CS scoop today. It better be amazing, because I'm staying awake for this and I need my beauty sleep.

[Souris]

Maleficent should be pissed at the world when she comes back.  Yes, she should probably be pissed at Regina the most, but she should be pissed at Rumple, David, Emma, Hook as well.  If she's the black fairy, then she should be pretty pissy with Blue as well and did Snow get that dust from her?  And then there's Aurora...I hope they don't push these guys off to the side so that Regina can have another moment in the white light.

 

As much as I wanted to see Maleficent back because of all those hints about her and how they didn't forget about her in Season 2, I'm really dreading that 4B will be all about Regina and her Not!Boyfriend. 

 

I know! I just head-desked so hard when I saw the Regina answer. She should be pissed at pretty much EVERYBODY. All you listed, plus Will and Robin, as they robbed her castle and Will stole the mirror from her that he and Anastasia used to get to Wonderland.

[Jean]

 

But, with all this mocking of the concept of "Scott" in the interview, it makes me think that the Snow Queen must be related to somebody. Is it enough that she is related to Elsa or do you think somebody in the main cast has to be related to her? Belle's Mom has been cast but Hook and Rumple are still in the market for one.

Hook and Rumple probably have the same mom. She'll get resurrected and the big twist is she's Pocahontas! And Evil Eva broke her nail and took away her colors from the wind.

 

I think the Snow Queen is Elsa's aunt for sure and that might be enough, along with knowing Rumple probably. Hey maybe she's Han's mom too. My wild speculation based on nothing is maybe she was one of Emma's foster moms. If the scene is longer than 30 seconds, there's no way they'll waste an entire flashback just on Emma alone. I mean she can't even get her own centric.

 

 

then there's that nasty thing about the fact that he murdered his last wife for leaving him

Now now, that's not Rumple's fault. He just feels so much with his appendix!

Edited September 26, 2014 by Jean