Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Shanna Marie]

Maybe we can hope it's like the transition between seasons 2 and 3 where they ended up abruptly killing the Home Office plot and killing Greg and Tamara in the season opener because apparently someone got a clue during the summer. So when they look at this season's ratings and the fan response, maybe the network executives will have an "Um, guys, about this story line ..." meeting with them during the summer, and the plot will be quickly resolved in the season opener, and then they'll move on to something else.

 

Because when you've got a story line that equally angers every single fandom faction and the ratings aren't so hot, it seems like a really, really bad idea to continue that story line into yet another season.

[FabulousTater]

You guys remember this poster from s1?:

 

Well, the writers are pretty much shitting on it with this storyline of turning Emma dark and possibly into the new Dark One. Screw you, writers & screw you, Show! I did not sign-up for this.

 

Someone kill this storyline dead. Kill it! Kill it dead with FIRE!

Edited May 1, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Rumsy4]

...Belle confronting Regina about taking her heart (boo, we all know Regina isn't going to pay one damn consequence for that.)

 

Like they're really going to follow up on that. Why not knock out Henry's memories being stolen or Graham's murder while you're at it?

 

Exactly. At best, it will be a 10 second scene. 

 

Any chance of seeing a darker Belle (Emilie de Ravin)?

KITSIS: We saw her as Lacey and boy did people have opinions on that.

 

Really, Eddy? You want us to turn our brains off while watching the show? I wish I could...

 

Will Killian (Colin O’Donoghue) play a role in bringing Emma back from the darkness?

KITSIS: But he will play a role in her life.

 

Ummm....

 

Any chance of incorporating an LGBT character?

KITSIS: Always a chance.

 

Bring back Mulan and give her a bigger role in the narrative. I would rather see her than another random villain of the week. Otherwise don't pretend. 

 

Can't say I'm happy about Lily returning in Season 5.

 

I don't know if I'll like a whole season of DarkOne!Emma. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Rumsy4

[HoodlumSheep]

I'll take a shot at those spoilers (?):

Marriage: it's clearly going to be Robin and Zelena. It's the ultimate revenge. Get married to Robin and Regina's happiness will forever be ruined because divorce doesn't seem to exist in Storybrooke. Sadly it will be interrupted when the crazy AU storyline is magically corrected.

Death: temporary--can Emma count as this? Or Rumple. Permanent death: hmmm...i'll either guess Zelena, the Apprentice or the author.

Will's storyline has been shoved to season 5 along with Emma's new apartment.

I still think CS could get an ILY, but I think OQ will beat them to a TLK.

Well, if the apprentice managed to enter the real world and find lily, then maybe he randomly filled in August with all those details about the author/neal/etc.

Anyways. Those are my guesses for now.

Edited May 1, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Souris]

No, they said a character dies temporarily AND permanently both at the same time, and given what's going on in the show right now, that can only be one person: Rumple. He as a whole dies temporarily, but his human self dies permanently, with his heart becoming irretrievably black.

 

I'm thinking more he dies, but Belle's TLK revives him and also breaks the Dark One curse. Thus he dies temporarily, but his Dark One persona dies permanently. Then the darkness goes into the air, to be transferred into Emma with the dagger, so she's the S5 Big Bad. And Regina is the new Savior, because This Show, These Writers. And Regina then brings Emma back from the darkness next season.

 

Hate Lily is coming back. Please let Shanna Marie's Home Office comparison come true!

[Shanna Marie]

Please let Shanna Marie's Home Office comparison come true!

The comments to that Q&A were pretty negative, overall. Maybe someone will notice. Or we can Twitter nag them. Or sit outside their office with signs.

[pezgirl7]

I'm thinking more he dies, but Belle's TLK revives him and also breaks the Dark One curse. Thus he dies temporarily, but his Dark One persona dies permanently.

I like that idea. I always thought something like that would happen for Rumbelle, but more at the end of the season. Could it also maybe be a character that dies in the AU but only temporarily dies in Storybrooke?

I can't imagine who would be getting married, unless it's in the AU. Most of the answers have me intrigued, so I guess they did their job.

[buildmeupbuttercup]

How can an interview where they basically answer "can't say"  to 75% of the questions be so infuriating?

 

This is what I have a problem with:

Might Belle’s mom (Frances O’Connor) have a connection to an Author?
HOROWITZ: Belle’s mom is a character that we love and we’re not seeing more of this year, but never say never. We’d love to revisit her.
KITSIS: But as far as her with an Author, I don’t know.
HOROWITZ: Not this year and not this Author.

I'm hoping "never say never" really means "never" because I'm already sick that we wasted so much of this arc on new characters and this author gets his own centric in the finale. Belle's mom was one scene of one episode I have no desire to see more of her. Or any connection to this poorly executed author storyline.

 

Will Belle confront Regina for taking her heart?
KITSIS: Next season.

Why pay off consequences this season when you can pay it off next...or you know...never?

 

KITSIS: But he will play a role in her life.

No shit Sherlock! Heck Granny serving her grilled cheese "plays a role in her life".

 

I do like that the comments seem to think this was as pointless as we did.

[mjgchick]

A whole lot of nope in that interview.

[YaddaYadda]

Yeah, what do they mean about Belle's mom having a connection with another author?  I was hoping we would be done with the crap regarding the author and the book(s).

 

It's interesting though.  Much as I was looking forward to the finale last season and then how forward I was looking to the start of this season because everything had ended on such a high, I just want this finale to put me out of my misery basically.  Unless this finale blows my mind, I'm really unsure about next season.  So we won't address Hook's heart being nearly crushed, but Rumple gets a whole minute of babbling as he puts Belle's heart back and we won't get anything dealing with Emma and her parents and whatever else....

[retrograde]

Guesses:

 

Marriage: I think it will be in the AU (assuming there is an AU). Whoever it is (surely either Regina or Emma) will be juuuust about to tie the knot with someone inappropriate when whatever makes everyone remember their past selves happens.

 

Death: The Rumple theory makes the most sense. Even if they make Emma dark for awhile this or next season, I don't think they would ever change her dramatically for good, which is what a permanent death would imply, right?

 

TLK: Probably Regina and Robin.

 

Other thoughts:

 

Is next season’s villain someone we already know on the show?
KITSIS: Can’t say.

 

So yes. (If it is no, I think they'd say)

 

Might Belle’s mom (Frances O’Connor) have a connection to an Author?
HOROWITZ: Belle’s mom is a character that we love and we’re not seeing more of this year, but never say never. We’d love to revisit her.

 

 

Belle's mum was around for like five seconds. She barely has a character to "love"

 

Will we find out who Killian’s parents are?
HOROWITZ: Someday, yes.

 

At least it sounds like they have thought about this and have some idea who they are.

 

Will we finally learn why Will is in Storybrooke?
HOROWITZ: Not immediately.

 

Well clearly not immediately, as it has been a whole season already.

 

Also, I'm cool with Lily possibly being around next season. Emma needs friends, and at least she's not a one-dimensional prop.

[Zuleikha]

Then the darkness goes into the air, to be transferred into Emma with the dagger, so she's the S5 Big Bad. And Regina is the new Savior, because This Show, These Writers. And Regina then brings Emma back from the darkness next season.

 

 

That would make me very happy, although I'd prefer a team effort with Snow, Emma, Henry, Regina, Charming, and Hook.

[FabulousTater]

Then the darkness goes into the air, to be transferred into Emma with the dagger, so she's the S5 Big Bad. And Regina is the new Savior, because This Show, These Writers. And Regina then brings Emma back from the darkness next season.

 

 

That would make me very happy, although I'd prefer a team effort with Snow, Emma, Henry, Regina, Charming, and Hook.

Well, sure, if you're a huge Regina Sue fan who believes she farts rainbows and sunshine and deserves all the shinys despite having crossed the moral event horizon multiple times, then this is like a dream come true scenario. But objectively speaking turning Regina into The Savior is like making Hitler the champion of the human rights movement.

Edited May 1, 2015 by FabulousTater

[YaddaYadda]

So, the wedding...Granny and one of the dwarves?  

[KingOfHearts]

Love how in these interviews they always answer "no", "maybe someday" or "can't say" to all the remotely interesting questions, but say "yes", "soon", or "we're excited about" to what no one cares about. 

[Rumsy4]

I feel sort of insulted on Will's behalf. They brought him on to be a rebound for Belle? Granted, Frozen probably derailed the better integration of Will into the main storyline, but now I doubt they ever had a plan. If there is a Rumbelle reunion during the finale, I'll give up Belle for ever. She was just starting to be interesting. :-/

[TheGreenKnight]

I'm thinking more he dies, but Belle's TLK revives him and also breaks the Dark One curse. Thus he dies temporarily, but his Dark One persona dies permanently.

I can see this, just because it sounds so much like the ending of Beauty and the Beast with the Beast dying and Belle breaking the curse. The only thing I wonder is what use Rumpel will be on the show if he isn't the Dark One? Would he and Belle become background characters? (Which I wouldn't be opposed to, personally.)

[YaddaYadda]

At this point, honestly, fuck Rumple.  I hate, hate, hate that after everything he has done this season including setting Emma up the way he has that this guy will get to have what he wants.  Really?  There is nothing that will ever redeem him and him getting his happy ending stinks...badly.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Would he and Belle become background characters? (Which I wouldn't be opposed to, personally.)

Those two should just move to Arendelle or some realm where no one has ever heard of Rumplestiltskin. Belle is too stupid to live, and if she's going to stick with Rumple after everything he's done to her, they deserve each other. I just want them both off my show. (Rumple can be an imp in the flashbacks.)

 

What makes me mad is that Scarlet Beauty had absolutely no real introduction whatsoever, yet it broke two True Love couples to even exist... then its just a rebound. Why, writers? What was the point? Wasted characters, I tell you.

Edited May 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Belle is too stupid to live, and if she's going to stick with Rumple after everything he's done to her, they deserve each other.

 

Did you not see her making eyes at him after he put her heart back?  I thought that was one of the most disgusting scenes I've seen on this show and that's saying something.  He lied to her, impersonated someone she knows, invaded her personal space, she was scared of him and then she turns around and makes eyes at him.  Not enough hate in the world.  I guess she's still better off than Milah who had a much bigger pair than Rumple ever did and paid the price for it.

[Rumsy4]

Drop everything and watch this, guys! Second katmtan's video of the CS return to Storybrooke hug. Plus some other people. I feel better now.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Did you not see her making eyes at him after he put her heart back?  I thought that was one of the most disgusting scenes I've seen on this show and that's saying something.  He lied to her, impersonated someone she knows, invaded her personal space, she was scared of him and then she turns around and makes eyes at him.  Not enough hate in the world.  I guess she's still better off than Milah who had a much bigger pair than Rumple ever did and paid the price for it.

I did. What I'm saying is that if she's dumb enough to come crawling back to him, she deserves him. I hate how they ruined Belle's character and even Rumple's. Rumpbelle is like Outlaw Queen in that it's destined, therefore it has to happen no matter how sick it is. Since it's Beauty and the Beast, there has to be a happy ending. Even if Rumple slaughters a village, dates three other women, or locks Belle in a cellar, it's going to happen whether we like it or not. It's annoying and sick.

 

And in order for this to keep going, they have to give Belle the brain of a doorstop.

Edited May 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

These villains barely do shit, get their happy endings and it's Emma and her family who gets fucked over? Is Hook getting punished for being good too? WTF is this show even about anymore?

Calling it now we'll get a Xander/Dark Willow scene where who ever they choose to be Emma's Xander stops her from going to far after probably murdering at least one regular character.

[Mari]

Well, the writers are pretty much shitting on it with this storyline of turning Emma dark and possibly into the new Dark One. Screw you, writers & screw you, Show! I did not sign-up for this.

Someone kill this storyline dead. Kill it! Kill it dead with FIRE!

I've watched enough Supernatural to know we should probably add some salt.

If Belle reunites with Runple in the finale, I will laugh and laugh and laugh. I've already written her off. If she TLK's, I will probably obnoxiously "I told you so! "

[Souris]

These villains barely do shit, get their happy endings and it's Emma and her family who gets fucked over? Is Hook getting punished for being good too? WTF is this show even about anymore?

Calling it now we'll get a Xander/Dark Willow scene where who ever they choose to be Emma's Xander stops her from going to far after probably murdering at least one regular character.

 

This show is about making the villains better than the heroes.

 

And, come on, you know who will be the Xander to Emma's Dark Willow: St. Regina Sue, of course!

 

FWIW, a teeny tease on the wedding:

 

I knew the wedding in finale wouldn't be CS. I saw that lady swan says when we see who it is will crack us up. any chance you can give a hint as to who it is?

Anonymous

Umm, Can’t say but the church was beautiful and the brides dress, gorgeous.

 

Crack us up? That makes it sound like it'll be some wacky couple in the AU, like Granny and Archie or something. Or Emma and Happy, given that he's the dwarf she hates. Maybe a wedding dress is JMo's favorite outfit she hadn't worn yet at the time she tweeted that.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Souris

[retrograde]

Is it possible someone dies and the author rewrites them back to life?

[Rumsy4]

So, it's a Storybrooke Wedding... no churches in the EF.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

Drop everything and watch this, guys! Second katmtan's video of the CS return to Storybrooke hug. Plus some other people. I feel better now.

Think Zelena is snarking at CS or something? The way they are standing looking at her.

[Souris]

It would be funny if Regina told the Author to give her a happy ending, and he wrote her marrying Happy.

 

I bet we see only 1/10th a second of the CS cuddling.

[KingOfHearts]

 

It would be funny if Regina told the Author to give her a happy ending, and he wrote her marrying Happy.

Or he dies. Happy. Ending. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

 Also, I'm cool with Lily possibly being around next season. Emma needs friends, and at least she's not a one-dimensional prop.

Same. I get that people hate the story she's involved in, so do I, but the character herself has potential and would fit SO much better as Emma's nemesis turned BFF (in this case BFF turned nemesis turned BFF again) than Regina.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Same. I get that people hate the story she's involved in, so do I, but the character herself has potential and would fit SO much better as Emma's nemesis turned BFF (in this case BFF turned nemesis turned BFF again) than Regina.

I'm okay with the character, and I'm even okay with Zelena. It's just the bad plots they're tied to that makes me less than thrilled that they're staying. According to this interview, the "intertwined fates" stuff carries over as well. Even that isn't horrible by itself, but it's deeply connected to this Author concrete-destiny garbage. I personally don't want to watch more of Lily going, "Woe is me! The devil made me do it!" or Emma being responsible for someone else's happiness.

 

Likewise, Zelena's return wasn't a horrible idea, except they had to do it in the most contrived, plot-hole-filled and annoying way possible. Whenever I see her now I'll be reminded of her pregnancy... which is a development I utterly gag at. Plus she's forever connected to Robin... so there's that.

 

These two characters could be good, but they need different stories.

Edited May 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Zuleikha]

Well, sure, if you're a huge Regina Sue fan who believes she farts rainbows and sunshine and deserves all the shinys despite having crossed the moral event horizon multiple times, then this is like a dream come true scenario. But objectively speaking turning Regina into The Savior is like making Hitler the champion of the human rights movement.

 

Of course, because being a fan of Regina means losing all objectivity but hating Regina and ignoring that she's been a protagonist for 2 seasons is very objective. Or, you know, it's all subjective based on which storylines resonate emotionally with dfiferent people.

 

If Emma goes dark because she merges with the dagger, it's a very different thing than Emma going dark because she was so lonely and hurt that she found murder acceptable. I will not be happy if we get a storyline where Emma goes evil just because her life sucks, but it doesn't sound like that's what's on the table. We may get a storyline where Emma goes evil because she sacrifices herself to save Storybrooke and other people by taking on a curse of darkness. In that storyline, I don't have an issue with Regina and other people working to save Emma. I think that sends a nice message about the redemptive power of grace. Emma saved Regina in s1 and s2. Let that act of result in Emma herself getting saved when she needs it. 

[RadioGirl27]

Really, I should know better by now than to read an interview with A&E before my morning coffee (or ever, really). I think they have loose contact with the biggest part of the fandom and they only get feedback from Evil Regals and SQ shippers.

I'm sure we are getting a TLK with Belle and Rumple. We had an iconic scene from Beauty and the Beast in the premire and we would have another in the finale. The only thing Rumple deserves is a painful death but instead he is getting his happy ending.

And the wedding would be some bizarre pairing like Lily and Hook or Robin and Belle.

I feel bad for Michael Socha, and I'm starting to feel bad for Colin too. They deserve better than this.

[FurryFury]

At this point I have to check twice to see this is not Arrow spoiler thread. Seriously, it's eerie - wedding speculation, the main character turning "dark", many fans hating everything but sticking around because they ship the main couple...

 

Anyway, I strongly hope all this talk about continuing with Lily to the next season is Home Office #2. I've barely seen Lily, but the story around her is SO BAD that I doubt I could enjoy the show anymore unless it starts from from scratch next year, like Neverland in 3A.

 

Of course, because being a fan of Regina means losing all objectivity but hating Regina and ignoring that she's been a protagonist for 2 seasons is very objective.

 

Nobody here is under any illusions about Regina not being the protagonist of the show, believe me.

 

And also, I think I'm sick of Emma/Regina. I could live with her - and even occasionally like her - while she went about ruining characters I didn't care about much, like Henry or even Snow (who was ruined already by that point). But now, she and Emma are the entire show, and I simply cannot buy this instant friendship, not with the way Regina's arc has been written.

[Serena]

My problem with Dark!Emma is... what's her motivation? Like, even Regina and Rumple had motive behind their villainous actions. Regina's was stupid as heck, but there was something she wanted... revenge on Snow. What's Emma's reason? Her whole motivation when good is being with and protecting her family. So she turns dark, and she wants...??

[KAOS Agent]

Beyond not having a motivation, Emma would simply be evil because she's sucked up the darkness, so absolutely nothing she does has any meaning in terms of her making the right or wrong choices. It essentially strips her of all free will and absolves her of pretty much everything. There's no story there beyond utterly destroying their main character. Not to mention that Emma isn't a no regrets person. She feels guilt and remorse even when she does something that needs to be done, so anything bad that she does would utterly destroy her once she is freed from the darkness.

[YaddaYadda]

If Emma goes dark, then what is this thing they went on about balancing out the light and the darkness next season with Lily.  Of does that come after?  

 

A dark Emma wouldn't necessarily go around murdering people.  I still think that her absorbing the power of the dagger will be a fight between the dark magic and the light magic she has within her.  I think it will be more a struggle where she doesn't know which way is up and which way is down.  

[Souris]

My latest thought about the "change in condition" for everyone: Maybe by sucking up all the dark energy, Emma removes all darkness from Storybrooke, thereby giving everyone a Happy Ending -- except for Hook, of course, since she's his. Maybe the Granny's gathering is showing how happy and content everyone is. Except for Hook.

 

I cry.

[Serena]

New A&E interview.

That part about how she feels about Hook makes me think she'll be the one to say ILY first.

[YaddaYadda]

New A&E interview.

That part about how she feels about Hook makes me think she'll be the one to say ILY first.

 

I almost hope this happens before the shit hits the fan just because they've already done the whole him tied up like he was when Milah died and she told him she loved him before she died, it's like overkill.

 

So is that to mean we won't be getting any new characters for this upcoming arc?

Kitsis: Next year we're not introducing any new characters, we're just changing the condition of the town.

Thank God for small favors!

[mjgchick]

So we're stuck with Lily, Zelena and the flop Apprentice? I mean I'm happy we wont be getting any new characters but this also confirms Emma is the big bad. I wonder if her arc will be for the whole season and not a half one. First half might be the gang looking for her and the second half is her fighting her darkness.

 

Oh shit, I was right about Emma saying the L Word first.

Edited May 1, 2015 by mjgchick

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

So is that to mean we won't be getting any new characters for this upcoming arc?

Kitsis: Next year we're not introducing any new characters, we're just changing the condition of the town.

Pretty much confirms the Big Bad is someone already in our midst.

 

That sneak peek really sounded like Regina had hormonal imbalance or something.

Edited May 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

Thank God for small favors!

Yeah, I don't trust it. They only think that right now, but when actually making Season 5, some shiny new toy or BS idea will grab their attention and they'll use it without rhyme or reason.

[Rumsy4]

Did you guys watch Sneak Peek 2? Thank you, A&E, for reminding us yet again why Regina deserves a Happy Ending. 

[YaddaYadda]

i did and nice.  Crushing someone's heart during a wedding.  If she can't be happy, then no one can.  I really don't give a rat's ass about Regina's psyche.  

[mjgchick]

But but but The Evil Queen and Regina are two different people.

[Mathius]

So we're expected to feel sorry for Regina when she's moping on the anniversary of the day her boyfriend's heart was crushed in front of her...while she is doing the same damn thing to other innocent people AND taking tips from her mother, aka said boyfriend's murderer!?

There are no words. None.

[YaddaYadda]

Yeah, I don't trust it. They only think that right now, but when actually making Season 5, some shiny new toy or BS idea will grab their attention and they'll use it without rhyme or reason.

Hope springs eternal?

 

while she is doing the same damn thing to other innocent people AND taking tips from her mother, aka said boyfriend's murderer!?

But this follows the pattern of the show.  She's pissy or sad because Daniel, she turns around and takes away the happy ending of someone she doesn't even know or in this case several people she doesn't even know.  

 

4x01, if Regina couldn't be happy, then Emma felt she couldn't be happy either.  Like seriously, WTF!  I don't know if this is designed to make me feel sorry for her, but it doesn't.  Also, two Regina sneaks.  So yeah...

[BoPeeps]

I don't dislike A&E. Hell, I don't know them~ except through their public words. And because of their public words, I abhor the way they talk-down to the fans in such an insipid way. The interviews are ridiculously vague, shallow and say-nothing, giving no credit to the viewers having any brains. They make the mistake of highly enabling the fans, tossing them disingenuous *tidbits* that sometimes are out and out lies... instead of just telling a cohesive story and letting us deal with things. They have to keep their finger on the pulse, yes, but all the social media shit/abuse/demands/angst/meanness of Twitter and Tumblr (and their embracing of it) makes them sound so moronic when they describe what they are *going* to do in such patronizing ways. (shaking my head. My frustration will not be remedied, ever, so it is what it is)

No new characters, in part because they have been in such a damned rush to include every one already, they have run out.

This season, to many, has been a disaster characterization wise. They have abused and ill-used already established and beloved characters while ignoring others completely. Plotwise, they have succumbed to tawdry soap opera emotional schtick or overly too cute homage to Disney tie-ins. They have in essence, failed as original story tellers. And I think they sense it.

Edited May 1, 2015 by BoPeeps