S04.E11: Shattered Sight

[KingOfHearts]

 

She probably could track it down, but first she has to figure out it's even missing, which she inexplicably doesn't seem to realize yet. Apparently she hasn't needed to call anyone in three days (or however long it's been).

I don't see how Emma could go three days without wondering where her phone is. Most people have their phones glued to the their sides, and losing it is not really an option.

Edited December 8, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I don't see how Emma could go three days without wondering where her phone is. Most people have their phones glued to the their sides, and losing it is not an option.

My phone could be gone for a week or more before I noticed, but then I hates it, I do. Even as a teenager, I wasn't a phone person. But I don't think it's been three days. This seems to be the next day. Emma had her phone during daylight when she was hiding in the woods and talked to her parents. Then that day she was supposed to meet with Rumple at sundown, and presumably that's when he snagged her phone, either pickpocketing her inside the manor or getting it out of her car where she left it so no one could talk her out of what she was doing. Ingrid cast the Slowest Curse Ever that night (without the ice walls, they could have outrun it in a rowboat), then they spent the next day busy trying to prevent it, then it hit at sundown, they spent all night trying to break it and now it's the following morning. So Emma lost her phone at sundown on day one, then went that night, a full day and another night without it, all of which were really, really busy, and most of that time she was around the people she'd be most likely to call. Maybe she'll notice that she doesn't have her phone when she notices Hook is missing and goes to call him.

[ShadowFacts]

She should be missing her phone soon because of her status as a mother and the co-sheriff.  If it's not her son she's keeping track of, it's town issues, and a walky is bulky enough that we'd notice her carrying it around, and she's been looking pretty sleek of late.   So a cell is pretty indispensable. 

[MDKNIGHT]

I'm disappointed that Belle wasn't awake for the spell.  I would so have loved her to dig into Rumple.  Her constant cheerleading of this sociopath makes my skin crawl.  That being said I did like the ep and I full on laughed at the Regina/Snow throw down.  Emma and Elsa goading Regina was pretty good too.  I wish we could keep the Frozen crowd but I guess they have to go back to Arendelle and recover their kingdom etc before the writers mess them up.  I'll miss the Snow Queen too.  Elizabeth Mitchell killed it.  I was throroughly entertained by her and had sympathy for her especially since except for accidentally killing the would be kidnapper and her sister she never killed anybody.  I understand they had to have her die for drama resasons but if anybody deserved redemption it was her. 

[KingOfHearts]

I have a hard time buying that Gerda wrote a super long letter about Ingrid before she died. The whole revelation that she did in fact love Ingrid was a bit unfounded and convenient. Didn't she say, "It's the only thing that will save them"? Maybe I'm not reading it right, but it seemed to be one huge contrivance without any real grounding. If Gerda felt this way about freeing Ingrid, why didn't she just do it herself? 

 

The fact she had the memory rock with her too was a bit strange. 

Edited December 9, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[shapeshifter]

Given Anna's sword-fighting prowess, I was really annoyed that they made her the babysitter when there was a villain to be vanquished. But then it turned out there was a need for the baby to be protected from the Evil Queen, so, okay. I guess.

On rewatch, DQ has the memory stones hidden inside "carrot sherbet". I get she thought nobody would ever order that, but I totally would.

Me too! I kept expecting her to serve Elsa and Emma some yummy carrot sherbet to win them over. I was more distracted by that than Anna (and the writers) forgetting about her babysitting gig.

Sometimes when my daughter and I are having a verbal fight, we start laughing at the absurdity of our arguments, so I was okay with the post-rage laughing. I was more worried about Snow and Charming strangling each other in their adjoining cells during the curse effects. Emma should not have had them within reach of each other.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I try not to overthink this show. There are plenty of shows that you can think about days later and find new reasons to like it. This is not one of them. I am letting the cell phone drop go as a plot drop and moving on. Ingrid got into town because she had the scroll and knew it was there. No point over thinking it. I enjoy the show too much for that. It is fun light entertainment and doesn't need to be anything else.

Plus I enjoy the fact that most of the cool characters are women.

[Jean]

I thought the episode sucked and I love Ingrid. She was about the only bright spot and it was more Mitchell herself than the story or words.

 

Was there a reason Emma and Elsa went to Gold and Belle? How did they figure those 2 wouldn't be affected by the spell and try to kill them on sight? As far as they knew only them and Anna would be immune.

 

Why did they make those yellow ribbons so useless to the plot when they spent so much time on them? I swear those ribbons got more airtime than Snow, Belle, Marian, or Will plus all of the non-regulars and it ended up being a big fat nothing.

 

And even though I called the letter and Gerda's "I love you and regret urning you" stopping Ingrid in the spoiler thread, I still thought it was contrived, like 90% of the stuff on this show.

[Terrafamilia]

I am a bit confused about the Ice Queen's character development. At the time she was sucked into the urn she was shy and not really in control of her powers. When we saw her released from the urn she was in full regal, kickass mode. I thought for sure there must have been an interlude between those events where she got out and developed a mastery of her powers. What was it like in the urn? Was she in some kind of liquid stasis or was she like Jeanie in her bottle and spent the time practicing ice-magic and plotting her revenge?

[Camera One]

In the interviews, Mitchell said that the Snow Queen was "self aware" in the urn.  Maybe A&E told her that?  It certainly wasn't explained onscreen.

 

 

Also, now that I think about it, the shot of the girls walking arm in arm and laughing in the snow was kind of odd. Like 'Look it's snowing! The snow that came from our dead aunt and foster mom who almost killed the entire town. Isn't it so fun? Never mind that one of our boyfriends is passed out on the beach and the other is presumably chained by the docks.

 

Even worse than that, Anna would have told Emma what transpired in the Sheriff's station before Regina magicked her away.

 

 

 

I liked how Regina and Ingrid played off each other in that deleted scene, but the "it's like I was cursed" should have made Regina really suspicious of her. I bet Regina made the rounds around town periodically to verify everything stayed the same. (She had to get super bored.) So if Dopey is there one day and Ingrid is there the next, that's extremely fishy and breaks the nature of the curse. Why Regina didn't think about it later when Emma showed her the picture I have no clue.

 

I liked their dynamic too, but that was so shoddily worked in to our existing knowledge of pre-Emma Storybrooke that I'm glad it was deleted.  There's no way what Ingrid said about the Curse wouldn't ring any bells, and as someone else mentioned, the ice cream shop is right beside Granny's.  Considering how bored Regina was, she would have known who normally ran that store.  She would have checked up on it at the Town Hall that very afternoon since she was so bored.  At the very least, Ingrid could have said, she usually works in the back.  Though even that could have raised some eyebrows, since isn't every day pretty much supposed to be exactly the same?   Typical with their poor world-building.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Camera One

[InsertWordHere]

I've been assuming Emma has had her phone the whole time and never realized it was missing. Rumple just deleted the messages from Hook. But yeah, this really should have been explained in show.  

[Mitch]

Like the episode but as someone up thread said, this is not the show you can overthink...because then you see the big glaring plot holes the size of black holes.  Okay..regarding Ingrid and her trip to the Land Without Magic...we saw her leave in her Krystal Carrington Ballgown and nothing else, and yet, she conveniently has memory pods or whatever they are (and the wiping memory thing is as bad a the Curses for plot contrivances. ) Did she have them sown in the hem? And if that was available why didnt Regina squirrel a bunch of them away and use them on the town if/when the curse broke? I wont even mention how she became a "normal person," with an identity and knowledge of our world with just a gown on her back and some memory pods.

 

The deleted scene shows a very dumb Regina (and pre curse Regina was many things but not as cartoon dumb as she was afterwards.."I feel like I was cursed.." okaaayyy) confronting said Snow Queen. Okay, so Ingrid worked at that shop (and I took it that she worked for Dumbo or whatever the dwarves name was...) which all the characters frequented ..(wasnt that part of the "cuteness," of S1 to show that Emma and Henry had a super duper bond as they liked hot chocolate and ice cream..I can remember Regina sending them to get ice cream to get them out of the way..) and no one remembered her as " that chick the I would get Ice Cream from.."  Why didn't Regina say "I KNEW she was suspicious," when she say the pic or Emma and Ingrid together..and WHY woudln't she have investigated Ingrid more when Sydney showed her  that picture..and didn't Syndey see Ingrid take out the Silly Putty Memory Thingie and use it since he was there? And then why didn't they(Charmings and Co) go investigate her apartment and ask Dopey about her once they saw the tape and they were in a tizzy about the SQ. When Emma first confronted the Snow Queen why did SHE not remember her from the Ice Cream Parlor, they one she was in constantly???

 

When Rump got his memory didn't he go over to investigate who a woman from Arendale got there, especially since it was a super powerful Ice Queen who already aced him?  All those years why didnt Ingrid(who is supposedly obsessed with Emma) send Emma anonymous messages to beware Regina and Rump? When magic returned why didn't Ingrid help Emma fight the big bad of the week? She wasn't concerned when Emma got sucked into a vortex..she didn't go over and kick Regina's butt?  Where did Ingrid go duing the lost year, as everyone went back to where they belonged and everyone in Arendale was frozen?  And finally, though Ingrid was now in Cursed Storybrooke where time stopped, she herself wasnt part of the curse, so she should have aged...(see Henry.) Why did she not age? 

 

Dumb plot holes from writers who think they are slicker then they are..."What a twist, Ingrid has been in Storybrooke all along!" though they didn't think out how to work it out.

 

Edited to include paragraphs as they taught us in the third grade.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Mitch

[BoPeeps]

Basically for me, too much story and not enough telling.

They are quick to introduce fascinating moments and angst inducing tidbits and then leave them dangling or unanswered, period. The ensuing chaos can often lead to increased interest to see just how they eventually tie it together...or let the viewer down one too many times.

In the format of network TV the stories have to neatly fit into short blocks of time between commercials. In this instance it is seriously affecting the ability to tell cohesive tales regarding all the characters involved. The fan base is very greedy and insistent and A&E falls victim to appeasing all of them somehow within a way too short time frame.

It makes for a ton of frustration and airtime dissatisfaction.

They are in danger, to me, of choking on the mouthful of plot lines because they really have bit off more than they could chew. Their imaginative creativity and having to serve too many masters in telling their story is becoming a bit of a problem.

It isn't easy, ever, but it shouldn't be so disjointedly hard either.

[Shanna Marie]

I've been trying to parse what this spell was supposed to do.

 

According to the story we heard Anna and Ingrid discuss as the origin of the spell, it made people see the ugliness in the world. It blotted out the good things so they were only able to see the negative. Under the spell, Anna remembered feeling totally shut out by her sister, which was true, and she couldn't seem to remember the good things they'd shared, whether in their childhood or in the recent times after the movie events. The spell would turn people against each other because they'd only see the bad in each other, but it wouldn't necessarily make them violent. I'd think that would depend on the person. Some people might sink into depression, some would become angry, some might become paranoid. It's not like it was about making them their worst selves or even bringing out the way they really feel but would never say, but rather keeping them from seeing the good, which alters the way they feel.

 

But the way they played out the spell didn't really make sense:

It seems like Regina's normal outlook on life is pretty much what the spell would create -- she always sees the worst, assumes that people are out to get her, and places all the blame for all bad things on other people. She's spent her life blaming a ten-year-old child for destroying everything, without even being able to consider that the child was trying to help her or that this child loved her. Should the spell really have changed Regina at all? It would have merely validated her world view.

 

The people you'd expect to be changed most would be people like Snow and David, who always look on the bright side and try to see the good in people. If they lose the inability to see the good, they're in for a shock to the system. Actually, for the most part I don't think their portrayal was necessarily all that inconsistent with the concept of the spell. With each other, there's usually nothing but love, so all they came up with were petty grievances. But I can see that Snow could get homicidal with Regina if she can only see the bad without that weird filter of inexplicable love. It's not even irrational hate.

 

I suppose Henry sort of makes sense. If he removes what he likes about Hook and can't see that he was his dad's friend and is a good sailing buddy who fought off winged monkeys on his behalf, then what's left is that pirate who's dating his mom, and he could only think of Hook's bad deeds, which are numerous.

 

It's hard to say what was going on with everyone else because that was played out in the background for humor. I guess the only one where it didn't really fit was Regina. They missed the opportunity for her to not change all that much, just to lose whatever softening up she's had in the past couple of years, which could have been really funny if she barely noticed the spell because that's the way she always sees the world.

[Mitch]

But the way they played out the spell didn't really make sense:

 

LOL..well this is "Once," so of course it made no sense. But I agree with you and think it would have been far more effective if the spell was something that Ingrid did over the course of several episodes and discreetly (get that villains, don't announce when you are going to curse someone or they can prepare...) and people gradually began not trusting each other and sniping and not realizing what was happening. For example, after Regia originally makes a clear decision NOT to revert to her old ways to hurt Marion (which we should have seen her clearly say...not a mish mash of dumb plotting. and then nothing...) we see her gradually cut herself off from the group and Robin and bring up old greivances with Snow, etc (I know what else  is new) Snow could start becoming angry with Regina for evertthing, and start to show it. Charming and Snow can argue about the fact that they should have killed Regina when they had the chance...the Storybrooke people could start being angry at the Charmings for their many screw ups with Regina and could start acting out at Regina (and why has no one thought to just shoot her and kill her...)  Regina would start getting threatening letters and dog poop on her door stepped, etc but blame Snow and Emma, etc. An interesting step to Regina's redemption would be for her to actually be under the spell but still hold back. Belle would start not trusting Rump and realizing the truth the mirror told her. The simmering tension could erupt when Ingrid, tired of being subtle and no one dead yet.. sends out a anti- Inhibition spell," or something and everyone would finally erupt in violence. This would allow several episodes with tension and the Regina bitching at Emma thing...and they would have time to explore peoples feelings (maybe Regina could come to the conclusion, once and for all that Cora was the root of her problem..) but still have their BIG EPISODE with their goofy spell in it.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm surprised Regina didn't try to take her heart out to avoid the spell. That would make sense to me. Even if it didn't work, it would at least suppress her emotions so she wouldn't rage on everybody quite as badly.

[Notwisconsin]

Ingrid's suicide might have been the jump the shark moment for the series. I hope I'm wrong.

[Dani-Ellie]

See, I embraced the cheese. But in all honesty, I thought Ingrid sacrificing herself to undo the spell was refreshing. Not so much for the act itself but for the whole thing.

 

I liked that she, for one, recognized that she was wrong. She didn't blame other people for her trajectory, and she didn't hide behind her circumstances. "I am a monster, not because of my powers but because of what I let them turn me into." She took responsibility and she recognized that her path was her own. For another, I liked that she expressed happiness that Elsa and Anna had found each other and Emma had found her family. She'd finally learned to see past the selfishness of her desires and was able to see the beauty in the people she loved being happy and loved. And finally, I adored that she told all three women that they were special, including Anna.

 

It's just ... this is what I think the season 2 finale wanted to do. The villain coming to her epiphany and sacrificing herself to stop the events she set in motion. And if the show had allowed Regina to actually progress and remain self-aware instead of yo-yo-ing her, this is what it could have been. Ingrid's epiphany that she was a monster because she made herself one was so refreshing for this show that I ended up adoring it on that merit alone.

[FabulousTater]

I liked that she, for one, recognized that she was wrong. She didn't blame other people for her trajectory, and she didn't hide behind her circumstances. "I am a monster, not because of my powers but because of what I let them turn me into." She took responsibility and she recognized that her path was her own. For another, I liked that she expressed happiness that Elsa and Anna had found each other and Emma had found her family. She'd finally learned to see past the selfishness of her desires and was able to see the beauty in the people she loved being happy and loved. And finally, I adored that she told all three women that they were special, including Anna.

Same goes for me. I didn't exactly adore how it all went down (it all happened awfully fast ) but I liked that for once the villain completely owned up to their own mistakes. For a show that spends 99.99999% of it's time trying to sell the villains as innocent, misunderstood victims, Ingrid saying "Sorry, my bad. I'll pay for my own mistakes. Peace out!" was absolutely refreshing. Ingrid gets all the points for that alone.

 

ETA: 

Ingrid's suicide might have been the jump the shark moment for the series.

I think the show already jumped the shark last season. Regina has light/"good" magic coming out of her butt now, and yet she continues to do really heinous things and refuses to see everything within herself that Ingrid realized about her own self in about 1 minute -- that she made herself the monster not anyone else. Woegina still (after 35+ years!) blames everyone and everything except herself for her problems. Which is why I think Regina sucks Chef's salty balls and Ingrid RULES! Self-awareness, humility, remorse, consequences -- Look'em up, Woegina!

 

(Additional jump the shark moments from last season also include: Regina doesn't need her heart to feel 'cause she feels with her soul, dontcha know! And, seriously, "sharing a heart". Like, suuure, let's just twist and riiiiip this sucker in half and you get a chunk and you get a chunk. ...I just... I find that one especially painfully stupid. I wonder if they could've thrown it in a blender then poured it into their chests for the same effect. Here's some partly pureéd heart muscle, extra chunky! How about sharing a liver or pancreas, would that work as well? Oh, Oh! How about sharing a brain! The season 4 finale climactic Snowing moment is writing itself, you guys)

Edited December 9, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Shanna Marie]

Same goes for me. I didn't exactly adore how it all went down (it all happened awfully fast ) but I liked that for once the villain completely owned up to their own mistakes. For a show that spends 99.99999% of it's time trying to sell the villains as innocent, misunderstood victims, Ingrid saying "Sorry, my bad. I'll pay for my own mistakes. Peace out!" was absolutely refreshing. Ingrid gets all the points for that alone.

Bonus points that no one on the show has (yet) called Ingrid a hero for being willing to sacrifice herself to undo her own spell to destroy the whole town. (I'm sorry, but a real hero wouldn't have come up with a spell or doomsday magical device in the first place.)

[TigerLynx]

Did the Snow Queen's death unfreeze Marian?

 

If I can't have Elsa and Sven stay in StoryBrooke with Emma, can the Snow Queen return from the dead to stay with Emma?

 

I would love for Emma to hear Hook's message, but at this point, I'm willing to settle for a scene between the two of them that lasts longer than five seconds.

[KingOfHearts]

It's funny how no one bothered to look for the fairies or ask Ingrid what she did with them. They don't even know if they're dead or alive, but they don't care because they're so useless.

[MDKNIGHT]

 

Exactly. A touch convenient, maybe, for Anna to find it just in the nick of time, but all the pieces were in place. Anna even mentioned that Regina zapped them to the spot where she and Kristoff arrived. I think it would have been random if the bottle had never been seen before 8:45 last night.

I tend to believe that for the Fairy Tale characters (i.e. the people we've seen on the show except for Tamara her boyfriend and her boyfriend's father) the "happily ever after" if you are a hero and death or unhappiness if you are a villain thing is somehow enforced by the universe, the fates, or the wizard the apprentice serves.   So whichever it is (the universe the fates or the wizard) arranged for the bottle to be where it needed to be so that Anna would find it so she'd have a shot at fighting the curse.  Think back and there are a lot of "coincidences" that have made things work out for the good guys.  But unlike it being ridiculous if this show were set in our reality, I think that this kind of goings on are part of the reality these folks live in.  I think  ironically Regina would not/will not be able to have a happy ending UNLESS she really does become good and sticks with it.  It is just that she twists things around to believing she can't have it because the book MISTAKENLY thinks she's a villain.  She probably did fail to kill Snow White because she and Snow are Fairy Tale people.  If she were a person from this reality she probably would have succeeded.  Where this gets interesting to me is is Rumple being the Dark One immune to this rule?  I'm going with not.  I think given how powerful he is and how clueless the good guys are when it comes to him, if he were a person from our reality his plan would work but he isn't so he will fail due to some coincidence or other thing that would never happen in real life.  Circling back to the issue above the chances that the bottle from  a shipwreck years before being exactly where Anna and Kristoff were dropped in the ocean and then being sucked to this world AND Anna FINDING the message are so astronomically inprobable that it would just NEVER happen in our reality.  I totally buy it in Storybrooke.  I see it as they have their own laws of physics and probability.

[darkestboy]

I absolutely loved that episode. Ingrid's sacrifice nearly got me crying as well.

Out of all the villains we've had, she's easily been the most interesting, tragic and sympathetic in one go. It's a shame that her redemption came at losing her life though.

The flashbacks with her and Emma were wonderful though as was that encounter with the charlatan psychic at the start of the episode.

The shattered sight spell itself was funny, especially for Regina being gloriously OTT and Snow and Charming's sniping at each other as well.

The hilariously bad sword fight with Snow and Regina was all kinds of hilarious too. In general, this was the best episode for Snow this season.

Belle seriously needs more to do and to become privy as to what her husband is really up to.

Seeing both Henry and Will being antagonistic to Hook was amusing too.

Still liked Elsa, Anna and Kristoff in this episode, even if the latter just seem to do the least amount. 9/10

[shapeshifter]

I tend to believe that for the Fairy Tale characters...the "happily ever after" if you are a hero and death or unhappiness if you are a villain thing is somehow enforced by the universe, the fates, or the wizard the apprentice serves....But unlike it being ridiculous if this show were set in our reality, I think that this kind of goings on are part of the reality these folks live in...

Yes, and this post makes me wonder if anyone has ever written a scholarly paper on how modern TV and movie scripts have inherited some rules of Fairy Tale Land when it comes to things like knocking your temporarily psycho fiancé unconscious and leaving him by the edge of a large body of water. Never fear, dear viewers, since Kristoff is a good guy, he will neither suffer brain damage nor drown--just like MacGyver and his friends. Edited December 10, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Mitch]

I tend to believe that for the Fairy Tale characters (i.e. the people we've seen on the show except for Tamara her boyfriend and her boyfriend's father) the "happily ever after" if you are a hero and death or unhappiness if you are a villain thing is somehow enforced by the universe, the fates, or the wizard the apprentice serves.

 

 I like this and its what I thought the show was going with from the very begginning, and one of the reasons that Regina bought into the curse, besides the cartoon torture of everyone, but she could finally get her happy ending (I can't watch this show with my partner cause he always laughs at the innuendo of that...) in our world, a world without magic and free of the rules of their world..where everyone is either an hero or a vilain. That would explain the campy EQ and the OT Sparkel Dark. But, we need to see that play out on screen and we need others to mention it, especially Emma and Henry. When something convenient happens Emma needs to say, "So you just FOUND that on the beach?" and the other characters to look at her like "Sure, is that weird?" When discussing the book Henry needs to say, "So, the book or whatever has trapped you into being a villan so everytime you approach happiness it will be taken away so you go back to being a villain."and Regina says, "Yes, in our world the fates are not just an idea, they are real, and they mean business. Since Gold brought magic here it looks like the fates have sprinkled their particular brand of magic on Storybrooke." Which would explain Henry buying into it and make Regina seem less delusional and just plain dumb.

 

But it needs to be actually discussed.

[MDKNIGHT]

When discussing the book Henry needs to say, "So, the book or whatever has trapped you into being a villan so everytime you approach happiness it will be taken away so you go back to being a villain."and Regina says, "Yes, in our world the fates are not just an idea, they are real, and they mean business. Since Gold brought magic here it looks like the fates have sprinkled their particular brand of magic on Storybrooke." Which would explain Henry buying into it and make Regina seem less delusional and just plain dumb.

But it needs to be actually discussed.

 

I think the closest they've come is when they refer to a character as a "hero" in the context of pep talks where they say they believe they are going to win. In one extreme case  Henry I think even told Regina not to fear losing to Zelena (despite her being pretty gloomy about her chances because she'd already gotten her butt kicked by the sibling she found out Rumple thought was way more powerful than her because of the letter he wrote Cora)  because since she was now on the side of good she couldn't lose.  That is only true in Fairy Tales (and the titular hero in tv shows although they had the guts to kill off Blake in a tv show called Blake's 7.  Even the actor who played Blake couldn't believe it until he read the script despite rumours.) 

 

Another thing I liked about the ep was that it showed Elsa to be both(a) a good actress in as much as she was lying when she said she tagged along with Emma to see Regna's face when she found out Emma deliberately messed up Regina's affair with Robin Hood.  and (b) morally grounded in that she said she wouldn't be able to kill Ice Queen since killing is never the answer.  She delivered her lines believeably without sounding holier than thow.  I have to give the writers credit for making Ana and Elsa both hero's and good without being sanctimonious and dull.  Now if they could do that for all the good guys we'd be golden.  The Blue Fairy for one comes off as hypocritical (I don't think a good guy should go on about racial purity or whatever keeps the Dwarves from marrying Fairies) and the Charmings come off as deranged or stupid. 

[Miles]

Man that episode was some bullshit.

At the time where the snow queen took Emma's memorys there was no magic in this world. None. Not even the Dark One had magic. So how did she do that? By the writers being lazy, that's how.

Speaking of lazy writing, the character regression of Rumple this season really grinds my gears and I'm not sure how much longer I'll be able to stand this show.

[Dani-Ellie]

Magical objects have been shown to work in the Land Without Magic. I assumed the magic that took Emma's memories came from the rock and not Ingrid, so it's not inconsistent with previous canon.

[daxx]

Regina had a ring that was magic that showed her Daniel. She used it to help power Jefferson's hat. So the magic rock is not inconsistent.

[ShadowFacts]

I do agree that the magical memory rock is too convenient, and lazy writing.   I clearly miss things sometimes, from not paying strict attention, but what reason did Ingrid have for a) arriving too early in Storybrooke, or b) delaying revealing herself there to Emma?  Rumple made some dramatic remark to Ingrid early on asking if Emma remembered her, implying that would be bad.  The overuse of memory wipes is unnecessary and cheap; who can ever trust their perceptions or memories anymore?

 

The Land Without Magic is a pretty big misnomer.  The Blue Fairy was a little off on that.

[Dani-Ellie]

I don't believe they ever mentioned why Ingrid chose to find Storybrooke ten years ahead of the curse (though the real reasoning was probably so that she'd always been there from Henry's perspective). I can fanwank it that after she'd screwed the pooch with Emma in the Land Without Magic (and perhaps tried looking for her for a couple of years), she just decided to wait her out in a place she knew she'd eventually be.

 

As for why she didn't approach Emma, she did mention that she'd been waiting for Emma to come into the shop because she wanted to "give Emma her space." Probably so she didn't look like a stalker; better to have Emma run into her than the other way around.

[Mitch]

Magical objects have been shown to work in the Land Without Magic. I assumed the magic that took Emma's memories came from the rock and not Ingrid, so it's not inconsistent with previous canon.

 

Yea, but even Regina, with her vault full o crap, didn't have a lot of magic. Jefferson's hat wouldn't work well...etc. Also, Regina mentioned with the ring that she didn;'t have much magic but a bit..so either she didn't bring a lot along, which makes no sense if "magical objects," work in our world, or the magic starts to fade after almost 30 years.  Either way it is a cheap plot device and if one more person takes a memory potion or memory wipe I am going to forget to watch this show for good!

[Dani-Ellie]

Jefferson's hat wouldn't work well...etc. Also, Regina mentioned with the ring that she didn;'t have much magic but a bit..so either she didn't bring a lot along, which makes no sense if "magical objects," work in our world, or the magic starts to fade after almost 30 years.

 

The flashback in "Save Henry" showed a pretty dang stocked vault, nothing like the piddly little amount of stuff Regina had when she and Jefferson were trying to make the hat work. The ring was the last of the magic she had; she told Emma as much as "A Land Without Magic" when Emma demanded she magically wake Henry from the sleeping curse. I gathered that, for whatever reason, Regina simply used what she had over the years and had no way replenish her stock because she was in the Land Without Magic. Ingrid was saving that memory rock for Emma; she wouldn't have used it unless and until she needed it.

 

Stolen memories may be a cheap plot device, but I don't think it's being portrayed inconsistently in this instance.

[Mitch]

The flashback in "Save Henry" showed a pretty dang stocked vault, nothing like the piddly little amount of stuff Regina had when she and Jefferson were trying to make the hat work.

 

 

That was the two bozos re-writing, because as you said, Regina told Emma that she didn't have any magic, yet, her vault is stock full of stuff, including those two dumb CGI snakes which killed Snow's dad which somehow survived in a box for 28 years (one would think Regina would have gotten rid of the evidence back in the EF) and which she never used on her enemies in 28 year, like say, an amnesiac Rumple?

 

Have the ever mentioned whatever happened to the sweet pouty little Jefferson? I liked his and Regina's chemistry. 

 

But back on episode, yes, the memory thing is a cheap plot device but I still don't know how the SQ had them when she left with just the ballgown on her back.! Thinking just a little bit and this show doesnt work.

[Shanna Marie]

the memory thing is a cheap plot device but I still don't know how the SQ had them when she left with just the ballgown on her back.!

That's what the cleavage is for.

[Law Mom]

My favorite line, in response to Charming's Dr. Whale comment, but several scenes later and in the background where it could easily be missed, was when Snow said "He's a doctor. He knows which parts are which." I couldn't believe my ears! Had to rewind and verify, LOL.

[jhlipton]

I have to give the writers credit for making Ana and Elsa both hero's and good without being sanctimonious and dull.  Now if they could do that for all the good guys we'd be golden.  

 

There's good reason to believe that the Frozen portions were either written by different writers, or that other parties (Disney) had control over what was written.  That's why there's a huge moral chasm between Anna, Else and Ingrid on one side and the main cast (especially Regina) on the other.

[kingshearte]

Is there anyone out there that can explain Rumpel's plan? I get that he wants to be separated from the dagger, but then what? He's going to take Manhattan or something?

Followed by Berlin, of course.

 

See, I embraced the cheese. But in all honesty, I thought Ingrid sacrificing herself to undo the spell was refreshing. Not so much for the act itself but for the whole thing.

 

I liked that she, for one, recognized that she was wrong. She didn't blame other people for her trajectory, and she didn't hide behind her circumstances. "I am a monster, not because of my powers but because of what I let them turn me into." She took responsibility and she recognized that her path was her own. For another, I liked that she expressed happiness that Elsa and Anna had found each other and Emma had found her family. She'd finally learned to see past the selfishness of her desires and was able to see the beauty in the people she loved being happy and loved. And finally, I adored that she told all three women that they were special, including Anna.

 

It's just ... this is what I think the season 2 finale wanted to do. The villain coming to her epiphany and sacrificing herself to stop the events she set in motion. And if the show had allowed Regina to actually progress and remain self-aware instead of yo-yo-ing her, this is what it could have been. Ingrid's epiphany that she was a monster because she made herself one was so refreshing for this show that I ended up adoring it on that merit alone.

This. So much this. I watched by myself, but I literally said out loud "That is how you do redemption." I wouldn't have even minded too much if they'd gone the cop-out route and had her willingness to sacrifice herself end up actually saving her (It's not like there's no precedent: See Narnia.). Unlike some other villains who claim to have changed, I truly believe that Ingrid understood, owned, and regretted her actions, and I was definitely among those who teared up a bit in that scene. EM really did kill that role like nobody's business, and I'll miss her. And the Emma-Elsa friendship.

 

I also agree that the Shattered Sight spell could have gone on longer, had more lasting effects, revealed more interesting secrets. But I did enjoy that it brought back some of Snow White's sass, which has been pretty much MIA since S1. I really enjoyed S1 Snow; current Snow/Mary Margaret is thoroughly uninspiring. Charming bringing the snark was also something I wouldn't mind more of. If that's what Shattered Sight does to those two, I definitely wish it could have stuck around longer.

[Jul 68]

I adored that she told all three women that they were special, including Anna

This is a prototypical Disney ending that I'm sure the Disney execs mandated. It was aimed directly to all of new viewers who only discovered the show because of the Frozen plot (i.e. preteen girls). Or so they thought. They were lucky if 10 Frozen only viewers were left after this painful season.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Jul 68

[KAOS Agent]

I am doing a 4A rewatch (or more of a fast forward watch) and got to this episode. Since there have been a lot of conversations around Snow & Emma's relationship, it hit me when Snow & David were going at it and Snow says "I can't believe I had a child with you." Point of fact, Snow, you have two children with him. Way to disregard Emma again. I know it was said to set up David's retort about it being Whale's, but damn do these writers do a disservice to Snow.

[YaddaYadda]

Way to disregard Emma again. I know it was said to set up David's retort about it being Whale's, but damn do these writers do a disservice to Snow.

 

And the reply could have been, "Well it's two children and at least I'm sure Emma is mine.  Do Over?  Maybe he's Whale's."  Easily solved.  I had the same reaction as you.  The writers' attempts at jokes are clumsy at best.

[Zuleikha]

Can you imagine a male character hitting his female love interest like that (even if it was "for the better good") and the show passing it off as a joke?

Didn't Emma knock out Marian to bring her through the time portal and it was treated as no big deal? Media treats knocking people unconscious as a safe way to render someone transportable or as a safe alternative to killing them. I don't want to get into the responsibility of the media because I have mixed feelings, but it's been a trope all of the OuaT writers will have grown up with and probably won't think about it. I think it's just been within the last few years that there's been more public safety education about how dangerous concussions really are.

 

Otherwise, I liked this episode, but I thought it was a misstep to have Regina's hate magic the ribbons off Elsa/Emma. Elsa/Emma's taking down of the containment spell be what freed Regina, and all of the townspeople loose on the street. The first one was contrivance... there was no reason for Emma to think that would work given that Regina's emotions had no connection to the ribbons (there also was no reason for it to actually work!). The second painted Elsa/Emma in a bad light for releasing someone really dangerous onto Storybrooke. The third made all of the main characters look like horrible people for apparently not warning the redshirts or even locking up Granny's crossbow. 

 

What I think they should have done instead is left the ribbons on because having them off didn't really matter. It was just done to justify freeing Regina. Instead of Elsa/Emma freeing Regina, Rumple should have done it because he thought Henry would be in Regina's vault and/or he just wanted to release Regina and hasten the demise of Storybrooke citizens. We should have gotten a montage of the various characters chained up and taunting each other rather than seeing them wandering because frankly, that probably would have been funnier and would have established that the main characters aren't a-holes.

 

I also think if the curse was going to be used for comedy, we should have gotten more time with Snow/Charming/Kristoff because that was the funniest part of the episode. I would have liked more Snow/Regina, but it's hard to justify people living the longer that Regina's on the loose.

 

I agree that Hook's heartlessness shouldn't have kept him free from the curse. Rumple should have simply used the heart power to command Hook to do Rumple needed, but Hook should have been just as much a victim of it. Otherwise, Regina would have dehearted herself and probably Robin, Snow, Charming, Kristoff, and Henry. It's too easy of an out.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Zuleikha

[KAOS Agent]

The third made all of the main characters look like horrible people for apparently not warning the redshirts or even locking up Granny's crossbow.

They did give a warning to everyone. It was a directive given in the previous episode when they were at the ice wall. Basically, everyone who was running around were assholes for apparently choosing to ignore the warning and not lock themselves and their weapons up.

The premise of the Shattered Sight spell was so great. We saw Anna drop a bunch of truths on her sister that were not tempered by her loving understanding. We saw Belle's worst self give her a bunch of insight into herself. I was super excited to see this play out on the main characters. Instead, everyone turned into the Three Stooges and nothing even remotely interesting came of it. There's no fallout or long term consequences. What a waste.

Edited March 13, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Shanna Marie]

What I think they should have done instead is left the ribbons on because having them off didn't really matter.

Yeah, it was crazy how much screen time they devoted to doing something that ended up making no difference. What I thought would have been more interesting was Elsa and Emma finding a way to use the ribbons against Ingrid. She was drawing power off them to cast her spell, so shouldn't they have been able to draw power from her? If the two of them worked together, they could have made her powerless, at least for long enough to talk to her.

[Serena]

Didn't Emma knock out Marian to bring her through the time portal and it was treated as no big deal? Media treats knocking people unconscious as a safe way to render someone transportable or as a safe alternative to killing them. I don't want to get into the responsibility of the media because I have mixed feelings, but it's been a trope all of the OuaT writers will have grown up with and probably won't think about it. I think it's just been within the last few years that there's been more public safety education about how dangerous concussions really are.

That's point though? Female violence is treated as funny. Anna and Emma can hit other people - their love interest, an innocent girl - and it's okay. But what if Hook had done the hitting? He was there with them when Emma hit Marian, so let's say Hook had the same good intentions as Emma, and was doing it to save Marian's life with the least possible timeline disruption. Hook would NOT have gotten away with hitting Marian like that. It would have been "dangerous violence against women", "rape culture", etc. Charming was called a woman beater for that time in season 2 when he grabbed Regina's arm to get her out of the way of some monster. 

[Zuleikha]

They did give a warning to everyone. It was a directive given in the previous episode when they were at the ice wall.

 

I totally forgot about that. I thought the chain up thing was something Snow/Charming came up with while Emma was off with Elsa at the beach and was confused how Hook and Robin had already gotten the memo. That makes me feel better about the main characters. So it's just the Storybrooke redshirts who are idiots. 

 

The premise of the Shattered Sight spell was so great.

Yeah, it really was. I wish they'd chosen to do the spell as a dark, horror episode rather than taking the comedic route. It was set up so well in "Fall." I'm guessing they went the comedic route because they didn't want anyone to actually kill or be killed, but I think they bought themselves the time they needed by having everyone chained up. I'm giving myself shivers imagining a dark version that starts at the Snow/Charming snark level, but then quickly escalates to Anna-holding-the-magic-urn level with each of the lead characters freeing themselves from their restraints and hunting each other (complete with taunting speeches, of course). I'm picturing things like Regina taunting Snow and Charming on not looking for Emma during the Missing Year and saying they abandoned her once they knew they had a replacement; Will calling out Robin on abandoning Marian; or Snow delivering the "I'm not sorry" speech to Regina instead of Anna. Heck, there could even have been something where Regina transmuted one of the characters into an animal in order to get a "death" in without the death being permanent. 

 

If the two of them worked together, they could have made her powerless, at least for long enough to talk to her.

Yes! That would have made so much more sense. The two of them should have used the power of love and the ribbons to reach her. Anna could still have been the final push with the message-in-the-bottle but Emma/Elsa should have done the majority of the softening. The writers did such a good job putting the right pieces in play to have a satisfying payoff, but I feel like they botched it on the final assembly. In particular, Emma's magic needed to be part of the resolution. For 3B, I thought it worked to have Regina end up being the one to use light magic against Zelena because of how the conflict and character arcs developed. But 4A was all about Emma's relationship to her magic and her self-acceptance. I know it can still come up in whatever happens next with the hat, Hook, and Rumple, but all of her parallels were with Ingrid and Elsa. It's not as organic if the conclusion is with Rumple.

[Camera One]

I totally forgot about that. I thought the chain up thing was something Snow/Charming came up with while Emma was off with Elsa at the beach and was confused how Hook and Robin had already gotten the memo. That makes me feel better about the main characters. So it's just the Storybrooke redshirts who are idiots. 

 

I think they wanted chaos in the streets during the Spell and they wanted laughing/hugging in the street after.  Fine, but why did they have to character assassinate Granny and the Dwarves since they were out amidst the mayhem.  They have no respect for the supporting characters.  They could have built tension that they were still helping everyone to get locked up but the Spell started right when they were about to go into Granny's to lock themselves up.  

[Curio]

In particular, Emma's magic needed to be part of the resolution. For 3B, I thought it worked to have Regina end up being the one to use light magic against Zelena because of how the conflict and character arcs developed. But 4A was all about Emma's relationship to her magic and her self-acceptance. I know it can still come up in whatever happens next with the hat, Hook, and Rumple, but all of her parallels were with Ingrid and Elsa. It's not as organic if the conclusion is with Rumple.

 

This is all so very, very sad to read in hindsight. Sigh, you'll look back at this post Zuleikha and shake your head because Emma gets to do nothing in the conclusion of the next episode.

[YaddaYadda]

this episode was such a letdown.  We knew what it would be like the moment that writer tweeted about they had watched the episode and laughed.  

 

Once is good at building drama and terrible at delivering on the expectation.  I was expecting something on the level of what happened with Anna with Elsa, but all I got really is that Dr. Whale is apparently better in bed than David, that Do Over is the only child Snowing have and that the meanest thing David can come up with is Ice Man and a rehash about how Snow decked him and left a scar.  Or the rehash of the secret that was told by Snow.  Kristoff was more "mean" with Anna if that.

 

Worst spell ever.