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David T. Cole

Unsolved Mysteries

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2 hours ago, Ashforth said:

That is a fascinating article and raises a lot of questions about the current fad of "true" independent investigations into mysterious deaths and murders. Let us not forget that these podcasts and so-called documentaries and mainstream media shows like 48 Hours and Dateline are for-profit enterprises. They all leave some things out, embellish others, often have a point of view instead of being unbiased, and have the power of editing the information before presenting it to the consumer.

I feel for Rey's widow Allison, and I respect her pain, but I had a nagging feeling when watching this UM episode that he had a mental illness issue. This article, if accurate, seems to indicate that as well. 

That article certainly portrays some elements of the story in a different light. And it's true that these shows are not necessarily presenting the informaiton in an unbiased manner. The shows are "entertainment," after all. There are elements missing from the Dupont de Ligonnès episode as well.

The more that I read about the Rey Rivera case, the more that I think that mental illness may have played a role. However, while that may explain Rey's behavior, it doesn't explain the other inconsistencies that were highlighted in the article.

 

Edited by Ellaria Sand
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On 7/20/2020 at 11:53 AM, North of Eden said:

P.S. can anyone tell me if the whole Dupont episode was in French? I gave up on it after ten minutes. Why would they do that? I know it took place in France but people don't like subtitles..its a proven fact and I bet it will be the least watched ep of the revival.

I managed to watch it but for some reason Netfix had oral descriptions on along with the captioning.  Super annoying and I couldn't figure out why it was doing that.  I usually use captions but definitely not descriptions.  Even with that major annoyance Xavier's lawyer seemed super sketchy.  Especially trying to insist that Xavier could never possibly get under that porch with his bad back.  Nothing about how he could never hurt his wife and the kids, just that bad back excuse.   

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It was a stupid excuse. But what else did you expect him to say? 

1) How do you have four teenagers, and not one of their friends coming to the door during that week asking why texts have gone unanswered? 

2) That was some calculated horror right there. Not only did he kill five people, but he lugged four of them downstairs, wrapped them and buried them and no one heard or saw a thing. I figure the garden might have been closed off but someone should have noticed him unusually rummaging around in the middle of the night. Also, his older sons looked pretty tall and sturdy. I find it strange that (with his back issues) he was still walking upright at the end of that week.

3) Dragging out his own disappearance seemed so strange to me. What would he have done if he'd been recognised somewhere? 

 

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On 8/14/2020 at 12:10 AM, Linderhill said:

Even with that major annoyance Xavier's lawyer seemed super sketchy.  Especially trying to insist that Xavier could never possibly get under that porch with his bad back.  Nothing about how he could never hurt his wife and the kids, just that bad back excuse.   

I have not watched in a few weeks but - and correct me if I am wrong - that was not Xavier's lawyer. It was the lawyer representing and speaking for his family. Regardless, it was not a well-crafted response.

On 8/14/2020 at 2:22 PM, Aliferously said:

1) How do you have four teenagers, and not one of their friends coming to the door during that week asking why texts have gone unanswered? 

2) That was some calculated horror right there. Not only did he kill five people, but he lugged four of them downstairs, wrapped them and buried them and no one heard or saw a thing. I figure the garden might have been closed off but someone should have noticed him unusually rummaging around in the middle of the night. Also, his older sons looked pretty tall and sturdy. I find it strange that (with his back issues) he was still walking upright at the end of that week.

3) Dragging out his own disappearance seemed so strange to me. What would he have done if he'd been recognised somewhere? 

Other accounts of the murders and the investigation state that friends of the children did try to reach them with texts, calls and emails. Some of the texts were answered, presumably by Xavier since the timeline would suggest that the family was already dead. I also read somewhere - don't recall where - that Anne's friends and Arthur's girlfriend came to the house looking for them.

Calculated horror is an excellent way to describe. He meticulously planned these murders and his disappearance. I don't discount the possibility that he had help along the way.

There is a great podcast that offers more details about this case: https://casefilepodcast.com/case-129-the-dupont-de-ligonnes-family/

 

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Episodes 6 and 7, one more to go.

- I do find it peculiar that the family found him after only an hour and the police didn't find Alonzo for a month. 

- Wouldn't being kept in a freezer also have left traces on the body? I didn't hear the coroner give an estimate as to when he died exactly. 

- From the description, it sounded like he was fairly unblemished when he was found. He could have overdosed (maybe if he was taking something for his ankle in combination with something stronger) and someone panicked and hid the body. Even if he'd been attacked, you would be able to tell from a broken bone or a cracked rib. Even bruising would still be visible, no?

I am no expert on hate crimes, but I always get the impression that people who commit hate crimes would either make an effort to bury or otherwise conceal the body so it's not ever found or leave it out in the open not caring what happens to it. "Giving" it back after a month so it can be found almost sounds like someone had regrets and decided to set things straight.

 

UFO episode

Yeah, I got nothing.

It was strange that nothing, but I mean nothing was kept from that night. 

So people called the radio but didn't swamp the police station? Your 12 year old daughter goes missing and then appears out of nowhere a few hours later? I mean, she was in the car and then she wasn't. I would have liked to hear her tell  how her parents reacted to that night.

Ditto for the woman who saw the kid disappear.

It was an ok episode even though I don't really believe in aliens or UFO's. Didn't need the  gas station guy because it felt sort of like a stereotypical crackpot witness. Dude, chill.

Edited by Aliferously · Reason: edited for clarity and spacing
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So, episode eight.

I think the worst part of the not knowing is the not knowing anything at all. When exactly did she disappear? Did she get a call and leave the house, was she at her mothers voluntarily and things went south? I felt like the episode glossed over all these things focusing instead on the stepfather for much of the episode. She was living with a boyfriend/fiance so where was his side of the story?

All her sisters have is some educated guesswork and nothing more.

I might have been annoyed that the brother could not find a shirt that buttoned properly to be interviewed in front of millions of people.

Why did the court decide the son was better off with the grandma? The woman has a murder charge on her record, plus the threat she made to her other daughter. I figure in small towns, those rumours would definitely reach authorative ears.

 

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I've started watching the new season. I watched the first couple of episodes while working today... 

Jack Wheeler – I think the incident at the neighbor’s house and the kitchen of his home being a mess were just what they were. As the person speculated in the episode, he likely smoke bombed the neighbor’s house and when he returned home he trashed his own home out of frustration.

Also, it sounds like he might’ve had early onset of Alzheimer’s? Perhaps the family was in denial? Because it seems strange that he was so forgetful. Regularly forgetting where he parked. Keeping his walks to a limited area for fear of forgetting how to get home etc. Of course this still doesn’t explain his murder.

I don’t know if his murder was a hit. Wouldn’t it be cleaner just to shoot him to death rather than to beat him to death? I'm also not convinced that it was connected to the dispute with the neighbor being as they would’ve had to follow him all the way to Delaware to kill him.

Was it possible for him to move with those injuries from the beating? I’m wondering if his death did just come down to him being in the wrong place at the wrong time and he climbed into the dumpster to hide from his attackers and later died? Regarding his briefcase, being that he was so forgetful, he could've misplaced it anywhere.

Jane Doe in Oslo – Very strange case. I definitely think this woman may have been an intelligence agent or involved with organized crime. I know that’s one of the oldest conspiracies in the book, but it’s odd that she was able to check into the hotel without any ID, that the hotel cameras were not checked, all of her clothes having no tags, no ID, keys etc., toiletries, hairbrush, toothbrush etc., not found in the hotel room etc. And then the way she died. According to forensics there’s no way she could’ve still been holding that gun if she shot herself, due to the gun's kick back when fired.  She was likely killed by another intelligence agent or someone affiliated with organized crime. They spent a lot of time trying to figure out who this woman was, which was valid. However, I wish they would've explored more the theory if she had been killed rather committed suicide. How would the killer have exited her room being as they found the door locked from the inside? Would the killer have been able to escape from a balcony or window connected to her room? Interesting case. 

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Jack Wheeler Case- For someone of his stature, it seemed very odd that he would have been asking for and accepting rides from strangers at night. It almost looked like he was limping early on at that point in the pharmacy. He was already very confused and wandered around for hours at night completely lost. I think there is a chance he actually sustained the serious injuries from the trash compactor, because no one ever knew he was inside the dumpster.

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54 minutes ago, non sequitur said:

It almost looked like he was limping early on at that point in the pharmacy. 

I noticed that as well, but was thinking maybe that was just how he normally walked because no one commented on it. 

My thought was that the guy had some kind of breakdown, which either led him to smokebomb his neighbor or resulted from him smokebombing his neighbor.  He then became more and more disoriented and confused as the night wore on, perhaps eventually leading him from Wilmington to Newark where he got into the Dumpster to try and stay warm.  I know the commentator was insisting that Mr. Wheeler's injuries could not have come from getting tossed from the Dumpster into the dump truck, but it seems more likely than anything else.  I mean, I don't believe it was a hit, and while it is possible he just happened to cross paths with the wrong person, it would have been odd to me they would have left the guy's cash and watch on him.   

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Okay watched the first of the new batch.

I am immediatly ruling out any international intrique "they were after the briefcase" theories.

In the end this is likely the case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. The truth is folks there are crazy homeless people out there that have lost their minds after years on the street that can be unpredicable and savage as any creature in the wild. Wheeler probably ran into someone just like that and they beat him to death for no reason and threw him in a dumpster.

My other theory might be a little out there but he could have had a double life (dressed up in a hoodie and heading to another town) to meet a prostitute but maybe something got out of hand and he was killed by a pimp (some years ago something like this happened in Albany. A man went to meet a hooker and he was tortured and beaten to death and his body dumped in a landfill but it was never found. The motive was stealing his SUV. (thank god they got the killers in the end). The chief difference here that might poke holes in my theory was he had no car to steal and they left valuables on him but then again not all criminals are master minds.

Whatever the case he clearly was having some kind of break down. What was he hoping to accomplish with the smoke bombs? If he knew he lost his phone in the house under construction why not go back?

Kudos to the drone shots and the music they play with them...they literlly gin up a palpable air of menace hanging over whatever location they are filming.

P.S. The garbage man was right out of central casting!

Edited by North of Eden
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The Jack Wheeler case reminds me of the Elisa Lam case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elisa_Lam), mostly because of the odd, slightly creepy surveillance videos that have been released in both cases. And because both victims had mental health issues. With Elisa Lam, the shocking but totally inaccurate theory was that she was being tormented by ghosts at the creepy murder hotel Cecil Hotel. In Jack Wheeler's case, I think the shocking but totally inaccurate theory is that it was a hit. That's awfully sloppy for a hit, both how his body was disposed and the manner in which he was killed. I mean, beating the shit out of someone wouldn't necessarily kill them. My guess is that it was either a random killing - they kept saying that if it was random, the killer wouldn't have put his body in a dumpster, but I don't get why. It wouldn't be that hard to throw one body into a dumpster and it's not like he was dismembered and put into a bunch of different dumpsters; now that would be a lot of work for a random killing - or that he ended up in that dumpster for whatever reason and was killed when he was tossed into the dump truck.

Edited by MerBearStare
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The Jack Wheeler case: I can't help but wonder if his bipolar disorder was escalating and/or a degree of dementia was setting in. His memory issues - not remembering where he parked his car, general directions - give me pause.

The latter could explain why he could not describe just how he lost his briefcase and why he may have lost his phone. (Watching the case, it does appear, since he was so passionate, as his widow stated, about the new house construction, that he may have had involvement with the smoke bombs. Maybe?) He seemed to be in a manic phase in the parking garage video. Perhaps he had stopped taking his medication?

Sadly, there does not seem to be much to go on in terms of finally resolving just what happened.

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My guess is that it was either a random killing - they kept saying that if it was random, the killer wouldn't have put his body in a dumpster, but I don't get why. It wouldn't be that hard to throw one body into a dumpster and it's not like he was dismembered and put into a bunch of different dumpsters; now that would be a lot of work for a random killing - or that he ended up in that dumpster for whatever reason and was killed when he was tossed into the dump truck.

I think the idea is that if it had been a crime of opportunity, the killer probably would not have left behind valuable items or had the foresight to have the means available to move the body to a Dumpster. 

I also watched the Stolen Kids episode, and kind of felt like they didn't have enough material.  They were tragic cases, and my heart broke for the parents, but there wasn't much there to sustain the episode.  On a positive note, I did think the ending with the age progression photos of all those missing children was very effective. 

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Death Row Fugitive- So incredibly frustrating and horrible to watch. The prison let a child killer go. Someone who is serving a life sentence without parole should not get the opportunity to go to a mall unsupervised. Of course he is going to run.

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2 hours ago, MerBearStare said:

The Jack Wheeler case reminds me of the Elisa Lam case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elisa_Lam), mostly because of the odd, slightly creepy surveillance videos that have been released in both cases. And because both victims had mental health issues.

That was my thought as well when watching the surveillance videos. Elisa Lam's case was extremely bizarre and haunting. The sordid history of the hotel she was found in added a whole additional layer of creepiness to the case. It is in fact a great candidate for a future episode of this show. In Jack Wheeler's case, sadly it seems to me that he just had a complete breakdown of sorts, and perhaps wasn't murdered at all.

Jane Doe case: I admit, I dozed off during most of this episode. I agree with the theory above that she was likely involved in intelligence or organized crime. 

Death Row Escapee - how tragic and frustrating for the victim's family. And what a bizarre series of lucky breaks for Eubanks: first he gets to wander off in a shopping mall on a prison trip, and THEN after he escapes, his records are somehow wiped from the system? Bizarre! It's been so long now, I wonder if he's even still alive.

3 more eps to go for me!

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2 hours ago, non sequitur said:

Death Row Fugitive- So incredibly frustrating and horrible to watch. The prison let a child killer go. Someone who is serving a life sentence without parole should not get the opportunity to go to a mall unsupervised. Of course he is going to run.

I was practically gaping at the screen and flailing my arms like, "WHAT. THE. HELL?!?!" when they were talking about that. I mean, okay, I'm against the death penalty (though I can very much sympathize with and understand the family wanting him gone). And I can support, on a general level, the idea of programs to help prisoners who are going to be released back into society, and make the adjustment easier. I can respect the concept of what they were trying to do in and of itself.

But a) this guy was serving a life sentence, thus rendering his need to be part of this kind of program rather pointless; b) A program like that for non-violent prisoners? Great. Fine. I'm on board. Violent prisoners, on the other hand...

And c) letting prisoners go Christmas shopping seems a rather odd choice of activity to help them readjust to society. And if you know you've got child murderers/sex offenders among your group of prisoners, maybe, first off, keep a damn guard with them at all times, and second, don't let them go to a place where kids will be running around. They should consider themselves EXTREMELY lucky that he didn't abduct and murder any other children at the mall that day. This whole "good behavior" aspect when it comes to criminals really needs to have more to it beyond that, because yeah, we've seen far too many examples of people who put on this good front in the hopes of getting reduced sentences or getting out early or whatever. It's rather surprising to me that there doesn't seem to be any evidence of him committing any other violent crimes since his escape. It's not entirely impossible for someone who kills a child to never murder again, no, but it's also very uncommon. 

I think I've seen his picture when watching the True Crime network sometimes. Going to be really eerie to see if they air it again, knowing the backstory now. My heart goes out to the poor family. I can't begin to imagine the guilt and the nightmares Brenda must've lived with. I appreciate the one guy just being like, "I can't read any more" when he was discussing the details of the murder-pretty much summed up my thoughts as well. I really hope they're able to finally catch Eubanks, and the family can finally get the justice they deserve at long last. 

As for the first two cases....

That one about "Jennifer" was so, so weird. That intelligence agent talking about how this could've been a professional hit, and going into detail about how they could've pulled it off-I actually got chills. And then, of all things, we bring in the fact that nuclear testing could inadvertently prove helpful in narrowing down the woman's age range as well. How incredibly bizarre. The way she's holding the gun is very strange, too-I'm always fascinated by supposed suicides where the gun is held or angled in such an unusual manner, to where it'd be quite hard to kill oneself. I think that's perhaps the strongest evidence that someone else was responsible for her death. I'm also struck by the very minimal amount of stuff she had with her, because, yeah, most women do not travel somewhere for a length of time without all the necessities and whatnot. That just further indicates she wasn't planning to stay very long. 

As for the town she claimed to be from, maybe it was as simple as she drove through there and thought it was charming and that's why she picked it? The age she gave wasn't too far off from her projected real age, so I agree there's got to be some reason she picked that town as well. If she was part of some super cover intelligence sort of thing, maybe that explains why she didn't check in with any ID or anything of that sort? I'm hoping that would be a logical explanation, 'cause if not, then for such a high profile, ritzy place, um, someone clearly dropped the ball here on the security.

(If this was an intelligence thing, though...24 seems awfully young to be part of such a scenario, doesn't it? But I suppose they can find something for someone of any age to do, too.)

I was rather touched by the fact that, despite the simple nature of her burial and the lack of a gravestone, there was a group of pallbearers who laid her to rest, so that she wasn't completely alone at the end. If this was a suicide, her complete isolation and the lack of anyone coming forward afterward to claim to know her could certainly explain that angle. I also kept flinching every time they played the sound of the gunshot. It was really jarring to see a postmortem photo of her, too. I admire the guy being so diligent with this case-with all the stuff they can do with DNA nowadays, with the ancestry testing and whatnot, maybe they can go that route in trying to solve this, too? Something to consider. 

Regarding Jack Wheeler...

5 hours ago, MerBearStare said:

I mean, beating the shit out of someone wouldn't necessarily kill them. 

I was thinking that as well. Just because he was beaten doesn't mean that he died of his injuries right away. I was thinking that if someone did attack him, they might've thought he was dead, and ran off, and then he could've managed to get up, struggled to the dumpster and climbed in (hell, if he was out of it, either from the beating or whatever other issues he was struggling with, he might not have realized it was a dumpster he was crawling into), and then died there. 

I do agree, though, that if it was a random mugging, they would've tried to take something off hm. Maybe they wouldn't have gotten everything he had on him, but they would've at least done a cursory search of his body for cash or something they could trade for cash. 

5 hours ago, North of Eden said:

My other theory might be a little out there but he could have had a double life (dressed up in a hoodie and heading to another town) to meet a prostitute but maybe something got out of hand and he was killed by a pimp (some years ago something like this happened in Albany. 

I briefly wondered about this possibility, too. Mainly because of how many places he kept bouncing around-it's one thing to travel within the city limits themselves, but he went to numerous different cities within the span of a few short days. That's the sort of thing I could see someone who's trying to be secretive doing. And the way his wife's voice sounded when she was talking about how she couldn't get a hold of him-of course, we know now that it's because he didn't have his phone on him, and there's her general frustration/worry that comes with not getting a hold of someone. But her tone also came off like the sort you hear from wives who wonder if their husband is out doing something he's not supposed to be doing. I felt bad for his wife, she seems sweet and her love for him comes through. I laughed at her drug dealer comment when she talked about how he won her over with his interest in ballet. That's an interesting point of comparison :p. 

The mental break theory does make sense, too, though, given much of his behavior and some of his absent-minded behavior. That tunnel underneath that one building that he was seen wandering through was so creepy. But I can definitely see where some homeless people/people who have mental breakdowns could hide out there. 

Quote

P.S. The garbage man was right out of central casting!

He was a kick, wasn't he :D? I was struck by his stories about how often they find "hollers" in the dumpsters. It's kind of wild to think about just how common that apparently seems to be, at least for his particular company. 

Anywho, so, yeah, good to have some new episodes of this to watch. Will check out the next three tomorrow :)!

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13 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I noticed that as well, but was thinking maybe that was just how he normally walked because no one commented on it. 

My thought was that the guy had some kind of breakdown, which either led him to smokebomb his neighbor or resulted from him smokebombing his neighbor.  He then became more and more disoriented and confused as the night wore on, perhaps eventually leading him from Wilmington to Newark where he got into the Dumpster to try and stay warm.  I know the commentator was insisting that Mr. Wheeler's injuries could not have come from getting tossed from the Dumpster into the dump truck, but it seems more likely than anything else.  I mean, I don't believe it was a hit, and while it is possible he just happened to cross paths with the wrong person, it would have been odd to me they would have left the guy's cash and watch on him.   

This is what I think too. He smoke bombed the neighbor's house, dropping his cellphone there. Then went in his kitchen and had a big meltdown. Wonder if he hurt himself during the smoke bombing thing (like got a head injury somehow...could something have shot out and drilled him in the head?). And maybe he kicked something in his tantrum and hurt his foot too. Cause he did seem to be limping in the pharmacy and then later was carrying around his shoe. I also think he wandered around and then climbed in that dumpster and that is what killed him. The trash truck picking up the dumpster and then smashing the trash back (including his body). He may have been unconscious in that dumpster. 

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12 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Death Row Escapee - how tragic and frustrating for the victim's family. And what a bizarre series of lucky breaks for Eubanks: first he gets to wander off in a shopping mall on a prison trip, and THEN after he escapes, his records are somehow wiped from the system? Bizarre! It's been so long now, I wonder if he's even still alive.

3 more eps to go for me!

Agreed. It was absolutely unbelievable that prison authorities would allow criminals who are supposed to be serving life in prison, for murder no less, go on a Christmas shopping trip at the mall, in civilian clothes, with tax payer’s money and without a guard. And then on top of that they did not take any steps to ensure he would be re-captured. Infuriating. I honestly don't think it was a clerical error as one of the people said in the episode. I just think authorities didn't give a dam. Perhaps they thought he'd served enough time for his crime, and it wasn't a big deal that he escaped. After all, he'd managed to be included in that program which allowed inmates more freedom that some folks get who are not locked up. They probably thought he was rehabilitiated and thus didn't warrant chasing. 

The dad was a POS. Lester mercilessly killed a little girl. He didn't deserve an opportunity to start a new life. Moreover, I find it hard to believe that this guy turned over a new leaf. He had a history of being a sex offender and killed a child in cold blood. I doubt he was able to let go of those depraved desires that drove his crimes.

Sadly, the family will likely not get justice. He could very well be dead by now. If he’s still alive he’d be 77 years old, likely unrecognizable and still living off the grid. I hope they catch him though, if he is still around. Even if he only has a few years left, he doesn’t deserve to live them free.  

Tsunami Ghosts in Japan – What I found most interesting about this episode was learning more about Japanese culture, how they view life and death how they handle a deceased’s funeral etc., With regards to the ghost sightings and possessions, I’m a skeptic when it comes to such things. I’m not sure what these people were experiencing, but I think it was mostly likely PTSD rather than some supernatural experience.

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Yeah, the Tsunami one was just heart wrenching to watch all the footage. What a  horrendous time for them. 9.0 earthquake followed by enormous tsunami followed by snow. The customs were interesting to learn about. It was tough to read the subtitles when I usually day watch shows while doing laundry or paying bills or whatnot. Had to focus completely on reading the subtitles. And then all the possession stuff lost me. But that monk was doing good work in helping the folks get through such trauma and devastation, even if the possessed girl part was a bit far fetched. 

The lady in the lake. Kinda creepy too. Felt it was suicide for most of the episode but then the ripped purse and bruises on her arm....I don't know. Maybe someone did grab her and kill her and throw her in the water closer to where she was found. But her family all fighting over inheritance. Then she had 3 older kids (20, 27 and 29...was it?) living with her still. The deadbeat brother. There was also a quick mention (I think written on the screen at the end, no?) about the family having sued the police for not investigating a crime or whatever. It was thrown out. Seems like a lot of people in that family looking for handouts. Maybe the lady was tired of that. Wonder if she had life insurance and if it paid out or didn't because of suicide?? Edit to add: see brother had check fraud case and she, herself, was about to go to trial in lawsuit for black mold in home (she was plaintiff). Hmmm...

Another tearjerker was the 2 toddler boys going missing from the park in Harlem. Those poor moms. That is probably the worst crime to live through...disappearance of your child. I hope those ladies have done ancestry DNA and then they can link their DNA to that Parabon or whatever database (is it gedmatch)? Those boys have to be out there somewhere. 

Edited by Lamima
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3 hours ago, Lamima said:

This is what I think too. He smoke bombed the neighbor's house, dropping his cellphone there. Then went in his kitchen and had a big meltdown. Wonder if he hurt himself during the smoke bombing thing (like got a head injury somehow...could something have shot out and drilled him in the head?). And maybe he kicked something in his tantrum and hurt his foot too. Cause he did seem to be limping in the pharmacy and then later was carrying around his shoe. I also think he wandered around and then climbed in that dumpster and that is what killed him. The trash truck picking up the dumpster and then smashing the trash back (including his body). He may have been unconscious in that dumpster. 

I think you're a great detective. This is what it sounds like to me. I bet someone could be pretty beat around if they are in a dumpster on the way to the dump, as well.

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2 hours ago, Lamima said:

The lady in the lake. Kinda creepy too. Felt it was suicide for most of the episode but then the ripped purse and bruises on her arm....I don't know. Maybe someone did grab her and kill her and throw her in the water closer to where she was found. But her family all fighting over inheritance. Then she had 3 older kids (20, 27 and 29...was it?) living with her still. The deadbeat brother. There was also a quick mention (I think written on the screen at the end, no?) about the family having sued the police for not investigating a crime or whatever. It was thrown out. Seems like a lot of people in that family looking for handouts. Maybe the lady was tired of that. Wonder if she had life insurance and if it paid out or didn't because of suicide?? Edit to add: see brother had check fraud case and she, herself, was about to go to trial in lawsuit for black mold in home (she was plaintiff). Hmmm...

 

 

This case was rather odd. It seemed strange that the police would become alarmed about a car sitting in a church parking lot for a couple of hours and then went searching for footprints, conveniently finding them by the lake. The car could’ve been parked there for a number of reasons, none of which should’ve led to a nefarious conclusion. Also, according to an article I read the police’s timeline with finding the car, running it’s tags and eventually informing the family of their mother’s disappearance does not mesh with when the coast guard started their search for Mrs. Romaine in the lake. The timelines are off by an hour. That's a pretty big discrepancy. So either one of these parties didn't properly record their timeline, which would speak to what appears to be the police's incompetence or something unethical is going on with one of these authorities. I tend to lean towards the former. I also read that she died from a “dry” drowning, having no water in her lungs. Additionally, I read that a set of keys Joanne told her family had gone missing weeks earlier, reappeared at the police station days after her disappearance without any explanation from the police as to how the keys got there.

I’m not convinced she committed suicide. I think foul play was likely involved. I think her death is probably related to the ongoing disputes she was having with family members. I honestly think any one of them could’ve been involved with what happened to her. The brother and the cousin seemed rather shady to me. So who knows what they were in to.  And once again, the cops show how incompetent they can sometimes be. I can’t tell you how many crime shows I’ve watched where the cops jump to a conclusion about an incident without  thoroughly investigating all angles first and in turn end up botching any opportunity for learning the truth of what happened. 

 

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Another tearjerker was the 2 toddler boys going missing from the park in Harlem. Those poor moms. That is probably the worst crime to live through...disappearance of your child. I hope those ladies have done ancestry DNA and then they can link their DNA to that Parabon or whatever database (is it gedmatch)? Those boys have to be out there somewhere. 

I feel terrible for these mothers. I'm guessing these children were kidnapped and raised by other people. It was very sad to see at the end of the episode, how many children have gone missing as babies, and the few pictures they showed was not even a fraction of the number of people who have been kidnapped as children and still remain missing. Very sad.

This season was okay. Definitely not as good as last season, but engaging enough. I do hope they’ll continue with more seasons.

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The episode about the missing children was heartbreaking. I hope they are still out there somewhere. 

I don't necessarily think that Jack Wheeler's death was from being in the dumpster. It's a possibility given his erratic behavior but the medical examiner reported his cause of death as assault. 

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12 hours ago, Enero said:

Tsunami Ghosts in Japan – What I found most interesting about this episode was learning more about Japanese culture, how they view life and death how they handle a deceased’s funeral etc., 

Same! I was especially struck by their belief that many of the ghosts were wandering because they'd literally lost the homes they would normally haunt. I mean, if you believe in such things, I can see that. I really liked Reverend Kaneta, too. I'm not a religious person, but he'd be a good man to go to in times of crisis. He clearly genuinely cares about the people he serves and helps, and he's just got such a comforting, relatable presence about him in general.

But oh, man, when they talked about how they had to bury all the bodies, and then dug them up to cremate them later...what a horrible, miserable, draining job that had to be. 

This episode made me cry. The poor man who'd lost his whole family...and had to see their bodies besides, and the guy who'd gotten swept out of his office and lost so many of his co-workers, those were heartbreaking enough. But then the ending, with the recovered photo albums...that just got me. I'm glad they were able to retrieve a few of those, at least, so some people can have some memories to hold on to. 

That footage of the tsunami was absolutely terrifying. 131 feet. Good god. The siren and the warning announcement just added to the eerie, horrifying nature of it all. The snapshot of how the area looked before the earthquake/tsunami compared to how it looked afterward was haunting, too. And yes, to get snow on top of all of that...bizarre. Truly bizarre. They definitely handled the earthquake portion way better than I would've, just standing still and waiting it out as they did. But of course, given how often earthquakes happen there, naturally you'd get used to that. 

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With regards to the ghost sightings and possessions, I’m a skeptic when it comes to such things. I’m not sure what these people were experiencing, but I think it was mostly likely PTSD rather than some supernatural experience.

I tend to agree with this, though I do think these people were sincere in what they claimed to see or feel. At the very least, I can totally buy the idea that an area beset by such tragedy would have some sort of...presence, so to speak, lingering around it? Maybe not in the form of actual ghosts like the kind we think of, but I can see where being in that area for an extended amount of time would make you feel like something's there. I'm willing to believe that was the case after the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, too-just because nobody publicly mentioned seeing ghosts doesn't mean there weren't people thinking they had seen them. 

The stories about the taxi drivers sounded very similar to the old ghost stories about someone picking up a mysterious woman only for her to disappear later on. Also, the woman who was looking forward to death after losing her young son telling her daughter, "You may suffer, but I will be happy in heaven"-I mean, I certainly can understand her feeling as she did, but wow, what a tough conversation to have with your surviving child. 

As for the story about JoAnn, whose car was found at the church, there was that moment when her brother was talking about the possibility of someone he knew having something to do with her death, and he was like, "I can't control that. I'm sorry it happened at all, I wish it'd been me." That struck me as a rather...weird thing to say. If I think someone I might've interacted with could've been involved in murdering someone I love, I don't think that's the reaction I would have about it all. I would be trying to figure out who the hell could've done and tracking them down. Unless he's afraid that if he goes after them or names names, he will be next? But I would think you'd be willing to risk that to solve your sister's murder. I dunno. He just didn't react to that possibility as strongly as one would think, especially given she was his favorite sister. 

And with the way they kept showing clips of the police officers being interviewed about their investigation, I was thinking they were going to say that maybe they were covering up for/protecting/reluctant to investigate the cousin that was also a suspect, since he was an officer himself. The investigation was kinda iffy and not all that thorough...maybe that's what the judge found "very disturbing"? 

I do agree if she was murdered, it was likely someone she knew who killed her. And given all the family drama, it seems there's no shortage of potential suspects. I'm inclined to believe it wasn't a suicide, either-the valid point about how it doesn't make sense to fill up one's car if you're going to kill yourself shortly afterward, and her keys were found on her body. If she was going to kill herself, one would presume she would've just left her keys and her phone in the car along with her purse, 'cause it's not like she'd need them anymore. And the fact her body was found so far away, and the issue with her shoes in that ice and snow...yeah, it all seemed a very odd way to kill oneself, and if she had, her body would've likely been found much sooner. 

As for the missing toddlers...again, heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking. I can totally see someone kidnapping them to raise them-they were both around the same age, which indicates whomever took them had a specific age range in mind. And there were all the other similarities the one officer mentioned (both moms had also mentioned going to the store right before the kidnappings, too-I wonder if they ever looked at that part of the story more in depth), so yeah, there does seem to be a plan/scheme at play. And if it had been a serial killer/pedophile who'd taken them, chances are their bodies would've been found a long time ago.

If they were kidnapped to be raised by someone else, though, it'd seem kind of odd to have one woman taking two kids, unless she lost two children of her own, perhaps. Or, did something happen to Christopher after she'd taken him, and she needed to try again with another child? 

If they were raised by someone else, though, that's certainly the best case scenario, so to speak, for what happened to them, so, yeah, I'd like to believe that's the case, and they'll realize what happened to them and will be able to reunite with their moms again soon. 

10 hours ago, Enero said:

It was very sad to see at the end of the episode, how many children have gone missing as babies, and the few pictures they showed was not even a fraction of the number of people who have been kidnapped as children and still remain missing. Very sad.

Agreed. Especially when you looked at the dates and realized just how long they've been gone. I can't begin to imagine going for that many years without knowing what happened to your child. It's great we've got an organization like the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and I appreciate all the hard work the people there do...but man, that has got to be one of the toughest places to work, too, given the horrific cases they've heard and worked. 

Another good season! I hope these people can get some help with these cases, too, and I look forward to seeing what other cases they'll cover should they get another season. 

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I watched the first two and the one that took place in Detroit because that's local to me and I remember that story, the news pretty much just rubber stamped whatever the cops said and made the family seem like they                  weren't accepting "reality", but it really seems like the cover up was happening for the cop cousin suspect, I don't even know that I think he did it, but I think the Grosse Pointe Farms cops were for sure making sure no one would ever know one way or the other. I did not know they ultimately found her on Boblo. Dang I had so many good times there and riding the Boblo boat!

I was pretty fascinated by the girl in Oslo, though I basically jumped right to her being a spy, like 100%.  I wonder why they didn't upload her DNA to any of the big sites (or European versions) seems like they might get some hits on her relatives. I also heard this was very similar to another case from 1970 covered the Death in Ice Valley podcast, that woman was burned and all clothes labels were removed and all labels on bottles and other things were rubbed off, also in Norway but near Bergen, but it seems less likely she was a spy/intelligence asset. Anyway I'm only two episodes in to the podcast, but already the authorities there have mentioned uploading her DNA to sites to find relatives. I just though it was strange to not even mention that as an option in this case. I mean it seems like the journalist accepts that the mystery part is that she is a spy, but he's determined to have her acknowledged with a headstone they'd go the Ancestry route (which of course could still be a dead end). 

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I also watched the first two episodes of Vol. 2 last night.

Jack Wheeler: I remember hearing about his death because I live in the DC area. I don't think I knew it had never been solved or that he was bipolar or behaving erratically until this episode. Like others, I would like more of an explanation if his injuries are not consistent with a person being thrown around/crushed in a garbage truck. I'd like to know why that is. If that holds up, is there any indication he might have survived his injuries even for say, 20-30 minutes? That he might have been able to get up and wander off, and climb into the trash bin because he was so disoriented and cold? Because he was coming off in that security footage as irrational and confrontational, and I wonder if he didn't just anger the wrong person who beat the crap out of him. And it's also possible that happened and he died and those people kind of freaked out and threw him in the garbage bin. 

The woman in Oslo: Okay, as someone who worked the front desk at a hotel, all the alarms went off for me. I was fanatical about getting IDs and credit cards on file, both because I had to be and because the less a person was willing to show me valid ID or to try to pay me in cash only (which I was actually more likely to refuse because I didn't like having a ton of cash on the property; it wasn't a great neighborhood and I wanted to be clear I was not a business that would accept cash and therefore be a great place to rob, which is probably less of a concern in such a ritzy hotel but I'd think they'd be more concerned about being covered for damages), the more likely the chance that I was going to have to call the cops on that person. In my experience, if a person is able to get a room without credible information on file, it's because a hotel staff member engineered it that way, whether because they knew them or because they were bribed in cash under the table. And I wonder how closely that was looked into. My hopes are not high, lol, given the seeming extremely shoddy work here. How was there a fifteen minute gap between the security guard running off and anyone coming back? Didn't he have a radio? How on EARTH did no one pull that security footage? Even if you're determined it's a suicide apparently contrary to the laws of physics regarding what a person can and can't do with a 9 mm in their hand, having footage of this woman alive and moving around, even in low quality security footage, could be key to identifying her. It could just make something click in a way the sketch or the autopsy photo did not. On the whole, I agree this was probably connected to either some form of black ops intelligence or organized crime, so I'm not so confident the murder could be solved, but I really hope she's at least able to be identified. I agree with the reporter that it's very sad she has no name and no headstone.

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5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

 

I do agree if she was murdered, it was likely someone she knew who killed her. And given all the family drama, it seems there's no shortage of potential suspects. I'm inclined to believe it wasn't a suicide, either-the valid point about how it doesn't make sense to fill up one's car if you're going to kill yourself shortly afterward, and her keys were found on her body. If she was going to kill herself, one would presume she would've just left her keys and her phone in the car along with her purse, 'cause it's not like she'd need them anymore. And the fact her body was found so far away, and the issue with her shoes in that ice and snow...yeah, it all seemed a very odd way to kill oneself, and if she had, her body would've likely been found much sooner. 

I don't know.  I presume someone, outside of a situation where a person has a terminal diagnosis, who is at the point of committing suicide is not necessarily acting rationally.  They may do things that don't make sense to a third party, or don't necessarily telegraph that they are suicidal.  

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Glad to see UM back. While I do miss Stack’s voice-overs and intros, I like the extended format that allows them to go more in depth on each story rather than rushing through four in one hour.

As for the first season….

Without a doubt, ep.1 “Mystery on the Rooftop,” the Rey Rivera story is the most intriguing and compelling. It’s not just what happened to him but how, where, when, and why and sorting through the pieces and trying to determine what clues are relevant and what are red herrings. Would love to see a follow-up episode where specific viewer questions are answered in more depth by experts who have since reviewed the case, especially on some forensic angles, much like how the note was sent off to the FBI for analysis which deemed it not a suicide note, to which I agree. It’s cryptic, no doubt, but given his background in film/screenplay it makes me strongly suspect it had meaning to Rey, and not in a losing touch with reality way, but in a coded, word association way of someone who is smart and creative.  On that note, I don’t believe he committed suicide or was suffering major mental illness that his entire family was blind to and in denial over for more than a decade now. No, instead I found his wife and brother very genuine. They are still grieving, but the wound is not fresh, and they’ve had time for reflection.  They want closure and they want answers, rightfully so. There are just too many unexplained angles and dots not connected to find the police investigation satisfactory, alongside strong indicators of foul play.  

On 8/12/2020 at 8:04 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

The Baltimore Sun ran an article on August 5th about Rey Rivera's death and the Unsolved Mysteries episode. Here is a link:

Rey Rivera’s friend, former Baltimore employer pushes back on Netflix’s ‘Unsolved Mysteries'

What I take away from this article on Porter, Rey’s “friend” and employer, is just how suspicious he continues to be.  His refusal to cooperate in the investigation where the last call Rey ever received before abruptly leaving his house that night came from Porter’s own company, and his decision to not participate in the UM show years later does not reflect the actions of a caring longtime friend nor a non-complicit party.  His quotes and comments point to an entitled narcissistic individual. (“’It’s horrific,’ Stansberry said. ‘You can’t even imagine what it’s like to tell people I had nothing to do with my friend’s death.’” Translation it’s all about me. Forget what Rey’s wife and family have gone through.) And his touting of the mental illness explanation, one I wouldn’t put past an individual with access to power or simply minions with social medical accounts like himself to perpetuate, have the earmarks of gas lighting.  He’s crazy; I’m not guilty.  I’m not lying, they are, says the man found guilty of lying to clients to increase his profits. (“After a trial in 2005, U.S. District Judge Marvin Garbis ruled in 2007 that ‘Stansberry’s conduct undoubtedly involved deliberate fraud, making statements that he knew to be false,’”).  Porter seems to have found a scapegoat or talking bite with mental illness, and if he can make the sell then the attention shifts away from him and his company cohorts who were all conveniently away at a company retreat the night of the incident??? I wouldn’t be surprised if he even starts a Rey Rivera fund for mental health, but I’d be as skeptical of its motives as a man selling snake oil.

While it’s true that narratives have an angle and UM’s is to captivate an audience for a hour of television and leave the viewer pondering the possibilities so they come back for and attract more (i.e. ratings and Netflix subscriptions), that doesn’t exempt Porter’s participation in the Baltimore Sun (would be curious if his company has any ties to the paper) article from having its own agendas. At the most innocent, it’s simply a PR tool for him in his attempt to do damage control for a company whose own social media pages have attracted new followers and not the kind who are looking to be new clients. At the worst, it’s another manipulation technique in a dangerous game that Rey may have stumbled upon, walked into, or quite possibly decide to expose.   Rey was dealing with some anxieties; that seems easily agreed upon. But just because you’re afraid of the dark doesn’t mean there’s nothing in the dark that won’t get you.

As far as the other stories in the first season, I’m kinda surprised UM didn’t tackle more of the stranger assertions in the “House of Horror” case. (Like neighbors who swear they saw members of the family days after their suspected demise.)  There are quite some interesting speculations out there on this one that would have been interesting to see explored further. Personally, I thought the execution of this episode fell a little flat, despite a ghastly story that had many ambiguous elements.  

Agree that “No Ride Home” story is certainly a hate crime, quite solvable if someone in that podunk town would summon some integrity and tell what they know of that night.  Even a few credible detailed anonymous tips to the FBI might even crack the case and finally provide some semblance of closure and delayed justice. The odds are that there are multiple witnesses and many accessories and/or accessories after the fact.

I also agree that the mother in the “Missing Witness” story should have been tried with a good chance of conviction by a jury. Plenty of prosecutorial cases built on less have found convictions.

 “13 Minutes”—Boy that small, rural town sure attracts a lot of serial killers.  Though this might be one of the few stories featured where the local law enforcement came across not only as unbiased, but truly concerned with finding justice and closure for the victim and her loved ones.

 “Berkshires UFO”—I couldn’t decide if I was watching Unsolved Mysteries or an audition for a remake of Soundgarten’s “Black Hole Sun” video.😀

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10 hours ago, Annber03 said:

This episode made me cry. The poor man who'd lost his whole family...and had to see their bodies besides, and the guy who'd gotten swept out of his office and lost so many of his co-workers, those were heartbreaking enough. But then the ending, with the recovered photo albums...that just got me.

I cried during this episode as well - so much loss and grief at once for that area of Japan. The footage of the tsunami floodwaters was horrific. I found the examination of cultural attitudes toward death in Japanese culture very interesting. It seems to me that many other cultures have a much healthier attitude toward death and grieving than we do here in North America. The Buddhist priest had such a calm comforting presence - how wonderful that he started a gathering space for people in the community to connect and heal. The taxi driver stories were interesting - very much like our urban legends here about ghostly hitchhikers. Even if you don't believe in ghosts, I'd have to believe that the shared trauma of a sudden event like this would affect the collective psyche, and result in some sort of shift in the local environment. The ruined photo albums got me as well. I found this episode profoundly touching.

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7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't know.  I presume someone, outside of a situation where a person has a terminal diagnosis, who is at the point of committing suicide is not necessarily acting rationally.  They may do things that don't make sense to a third party, or don't necessarily telegraph that they are suicidal.  

This is true. Good point. Indeed, there was the usual round of comments like, "She was so happy and we planned to talk again" and all that from her loved ones, too, and like you said, people don't always telegraph the fact they're planning to kill themselves. If anything, I've often heard that people who commit suicide can sometimes be more upbeat/positive not long beforehand, because they've made peace with their decision to do so and know their suffering is going to end soon. 

2 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I cried during this episode as well - so much loss and grief at once for that area of Japan. The footage of the tsunami floodwaters was horrific. 

What made it even scarier for me was the reminder that something like this could easily happen again to that area. That's a natural disaster, there's very little, if anything, you can do to stop those from happening.

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Stolen Kids- This was absolutely devastating. I can't imagine how painful it would be to never know what happened to your child. The second mother framing the age progression photos was heartbreaking. 

I guess the best scenario would be that someone abducted the boys, and raised them as their own. 

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I'm torn on the "Lady in the Lake" episode. I don't pay a ton of attention to family members insisting it couldn't be suicide for XYZ reasons, because that can always be denial and it seems like the oldest daughter in particular just absolutely refused to entertain the notion, but I have questions on her method of suicide, even more questions on reports her car alarm went off, the car seemed to be removed from the spot and then returned, and that she had bruises on her arm around the same area she carried her torn purse. Furthermore, even a news report seemed to indicate there was very little current in that particular part of the water and I can't understand, if she went in where the police said she did (also suspicious there was no notable hole in the ice), why she was not found when they searched the lake. It just does not seem her body could have been swept so far away so quickly. I'm very less than impressed with what I saw of the police work; it seems like they decided this was a suicide very quickly and just did not put much effort into any other idea, even though she had an acrimonious relationship with her ex-husband and her cousin. Did her cousin or her ex have an alibi? Did anyone ever ask and follow up on that? I didn't find any indication from a quick Google but I also haven't really found any article challenging the POV of the episode yet. One thing I did see, which I'm surprised the episode did not mention if true, is that the daughter owned the Lexus. Therefore, if the police ran the plates, why would they come to the house assuming her mother was missing? If some witness told them who they saw driving the car, I haven't seen that mentioned yet. 

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I've seen the first four (new ones). 

I tend to think Jack Wheeler had dementia and crawled into the dumpster himself, as some speculated, and was simply killed by being thrown into the garbage truck and dumped into the landfill. I think too much is made of "this kind of bruise means this and that kind of bruise means that." His behavior was very odd, and in all the security footage they found of him, there was nobody else in it that was following him or anything of that nature. This seemed like another case where the family was simply unable to accept suicide.

Now, the Lady in the Lake might be a different matter. I'm torn on that. On the one hand they did find the footprints and butt prints which clearly demonstrated how she might have scooted down that embankment. I don't know why it was necessary for the private investigator to recreate the event with someone in similar heels. On the other hand, the fact that her body wasn't found immediately, on frozen, clear water, and then found so far away is very odd. And her family troubles raise all kinds of red flags.

"Jennifer" in Oslo was the creepiest of the lot (so far). Yes I think she was definitely an agent of some kind, having been born and raised behind the iron curtain. They may yet learn her identity if they come across a familial match with her DNA thru Ancestry or some other DNA database. There's a huge chunk of this story missing though: who the hell checked her in without ID or a credit card? They must have that on record, and surely that desk clerk was fired.

Couldn't even finish the Japan Tsunami one. Yes, the stock footage of the event was devastating, but this story just felt out of place. The "ghost" stories were anecdotal and mundane, even the stuff of urban legends. That part felt tacked on just to make the story qualify for an Unsolved Mystery. I realize they're trying for a little diversity here . . . they don't want all their stories to be Dateline-type unsolved murders. And the OG show did delve into the supernatural on occasion. But this was a stretch.

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Jack Wheeler and the Ray Rivera case are quite similar on the surface except I think with Jack mental illness is the most likely explanation. The only real lose thread with Jack is the missing work items and it entirely likely he misplaced them. What set him off is a question but with his issues it could be anything like leaving his briefcase on the train. Doing things like taking a cab home because he couldn't find his car does sound like his mania wasn't in control. Bi-polar disorder can flare up or medication can stop being effective. As for Jack's limp I wonder if it was the Comet. (The neighbor mentioned a foot print on the floor in spilled Comet)  Its an abrasive bleach it doesn't bother your skin on contact but if he stepped in it and never cleaned it off properly it could irritate the skin pretty badly especially if he was walking a lot with sweaty feet.

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7 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Jack Wheeler and the Ray Rivera case are quite similar on the surface except I think with Jack mental illness is the most likely explanation. The only real lose thread with Jack is the missing work items and it entirely likely he misplaced them. What set him off is a question but with his issues it could be anything like leaving his briefcase on the train. Doing things like taking a cab home because he couldn't find his car does sound like his mania wasn't in control. Bi-polar disorder can flare up or medication can stop being effective. As for Jack's limp I wonder if it was the Comet. (The neighbor mentioned a foot print on the floor in spilled Comet)  Its an abrasive bleach it doesn't bother your skin on contact but if he stepped in it and never cleaned it off properly it could irritate the skin pretty badly especially if he was walking a lot with sweaty feet.

Yes, I was thinking perhaps his medication stopped being as effective. Some bipolar people can become resistant to some of their medication (because it's usually a cocktail). If he was in some kind of manic state, he could have left his briefcase anywhere and he could have either just crawled into the dumpster and died, or angered the wrong person who beat the crap out of him.

The final episode was just terribly sad. Those poor women - not knowing what happened to their babies for thirty years. I think it's possible their kidnappings are connected, given the boys' close proximity in age, and that they were taken from the same park on the same day at the same time of day three months apart. From there, statistics of children surviving stranger abductions are extremely grim, but I hope somehow, these women at the very least get some answers. 

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9 hours ago, Cristofle said:

From there, statistics of children surviving stranger abductions are extremely grim, but I hope somehow, these women at the very least get some answers. 

Yeah, when the one investigator pointed out how time is of the essence with child abductions because of the statistics and all, I could see the increasing worry in his face. On that note, man, when they were talking about going through every single one of those buildings, with all those apartments, and expanding to a number of nearby blocks, and then they were searching these basement areas and even had to knock down an old building to see if there was anything there and whatnot, wanting to find the children and yet being afraid of what they might find all at the same time....talk about exhausting and stressful. And then they even mentioned that all the searching in that area could've been moot because the kids could've been taken in a car and the kidnappers could've driven away to god knows where as well. You'd just feel so helpless. 

So scary, too, to see just how quickly your child can disappear despite the fact you're right with them. All it takes is one second for you to turn your head, and that's it, they're gone. I imagine any parents watching this episode held their children a little closer afterward. I wonder how many parents stopped taking their kids to that park afterward. Be pretty jarring for anyone who had taken their kids to that park and hadn't heard this story until recently, too. 

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I remembered the story of Carlina White when it hit the national news. I can't imagine finding out you'd been kidnapped at birth. I never saw or read an interview with her where she expressed how she felt about the fact that the woman who raised her went to prison for kidnapping. The story heavily played up the happy reunion she had with her birth parents and never really addressed the issue of the kidnapper and what kind of relationship she had with her growing up, except for the fact that she always suspected she wasn't really related to her. 

I had forgotten that I even watched Death Row Escapee. I hope he's eventually caught, but there was a recent Dateline episode that was sort of similar. This guy had raped and murdered a girl and it took several decades to track him down and arrest him. He got to live his whole life in freedom before he was finally caught and arrested. Sometimes there's just no justice.

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52 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

On that note, man, when they were talking about going through every single one of those buildings, with all those apartments, and expanding to a number of nearby blocks, and then they were searching these basement areas and even had to knock down an old building to see if there was anything there and whatnot, wanting to find the children and yet being afraid of what they might find all at the same time....talk about exhausting and stressful.

I lived in Morningside Heights when I went to grad school, and to have to search those high rises in Harlem when time is working against you? It must have been beyond a nightmare. A lot of people and a lot of shows quote the whole "most children of stranger abductions are killed in the first 24 hours", which is true, but more than half of them will be dead within three hours. How can that even work when you are talking that many blocks in NYC? And then on the flip side, stranger abductions are often well publicized but they are incredibly rare, less than 1% of all missing child reports, so often times LEOs work on the assumption that a relative or family friend took them, which almost always IS the case (given the age of these two boys, since they certainly didn't run away willfully). In this case, however, it seems at least highly possible that it was a stranger - the only connections these two boys seemed to have was they were virtually the same age and playing in the same park on the same day of the week at the same time. And, of course, that not even the slightest trace of either child was ever found 😞 My heart just breaks for those mothers. I can only imagine I'd feel the same way they do - if there is the SLIGHTEST bit of hope, I would cling to it for the rest of my life. 

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3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I remembered the story of Carlina White when it hit the national news. I can't imagine finding out you'd been kidnapped at birth. I never saw or read an interview with her where she expressed how she felt about the fact that the woman who raised her went to prison for kidnapping. The story heavily played up the happy reunion she had with her birth parents and never really addressed the issue of the kidnapper and what kind of relationship she had with her growing up, except for the fact that she always suspected she wasn't really related to her. 

 

Last I read she was in a very difficult position. Though the woman who raised her had stolen her from her real parents, it sounded like the lady was very good to her. So despite being a victim of kidnapping and being stolen from her birth parents she still loved her kidnapper ie “mom” and refused to sever the relationship. Unfortunately this caused tension with her biological parents as they felt like she should cut off the kidnapper completely. Sadly, the situation wasn’t as simple as that. It was complicated. During all of this I remember reading that Carina’s biological mother gave her an ultimatum either she choose her or the kidnapper. Of course, that didn’t go well and from what I understand it resulted in an estrangement. That was many years ago. So hopefully Carina and her biological parents have been able to work through the complexity of their unique situation and have reconciled. 

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On 10/20/2020 at 6:14 PM, Enero said:

Also, according to an article I read the police’s timeline with finding the car, running it’s tags and eventually informing the family of their mother’s disappearance does not mesh with when the coast guard started their search for Mrs. Romaine in the lake.

I also read that the car was in the daughters name, so why would they knock on her door looking for her mom? The police would not have had any reason to look for the mom yet. That mom would have never carried a ripped purse. She had money and looked like she kept herself dressed nicely. Plus she still had her shoes looking perfect after that trek through what looked like pretty treacherous terrain. I think she was murdered probably by the cousin who had ties to the police.

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3 hours ago, Enero said:

Last I read she was in a very difficult position. Though the woman who raised her had stolen her from her real parents, it sounded like the lady was very good to her. So despite being a victim of kidnapping and being stolen from her birth parents she still loved her kidnapper ie “mom” and refused to sever the relationship. Unfortunately this caused tension with her biological parents as they felt like she should cut off the kidnapper completely. Sadly, the situation wasn’t as simple as that. It was complicated. During all of this I remember reading that Carina’s biological mother gave her an ultimatum either she choose her or the kidnapper. Of course, that didn’t go well and from what I understand it resulted in an estrangement. That was many years ago. So hopefully Carina and her biological parents have been able to work through the complexity of their unique situation and have reconciled. 

Your recitation of this story sounds very familiar to me, although I don't really remember the name of Carlina White.

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1 hour ago, CrystalBlue said:

Your recitation of this story sounds very familiar to me, although I don't really remember the name of Carlina White.

Maybe you're thinking of the Switched At Birth saga of Kimberly Mays/Arlena Twigg? Neither were kidnapped but the babies were switched. Arlena had health problems from the start and it was from that the Twiggs found out Arlena was not their biological child.

Once she died, the Twiggs discovered Kimberly Mays was their biological daughter and went to court against Kimberly's father, Bob Mays, for access. (Mays' wife had died long before the reveal.) That turned into a mess, to put it kindly. There is plenty online detailing the particulars.

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Yes, apparently Kimberly made the mistake of getting a settlement from one of those annuity payment companies, and spent that portion of her money, and she won't have more money until she's 70 (I think 70).   I will never believe the switch just happened, and that it wasn't to give a healthy baby to the couple that had no children, and to give the baby doomed by her heart problem to people who already had  five children.    There was a nurse's aide that said some strange things happened at that hospital.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/kim-mays-biological-family-involved-switched-birth-scandal/story?id=67303922

Currently, she had one son with a first husband, then five more children with a second husband.   She's estranged from the Twigg family.   She has some kind of relationship with Bob Mays third wife.  

Carlina White's kidnapper received 12 years in jail, and will be released in 2024 or before.  

The birth parents sued the hospital, and settled for $750k, and the money was long gone.   Because of the settlement, Carlina or Netty as she prefers to be called, can't sue again.     I read that she communicates with her birth parents, and the kidnapper and her husband.    She is now in her 30's, and leads a private life.   I hope she finds peace, and happiness. 

 

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22 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe you're thinking of the Switched At Birth saga of Kimberly Mays/Arlena Twigg? Neither were kidnapped but the babies were switched. Arlena had health problems from the start and it was from that the Twiggs found out Arlena was not their biological child.

Once she died, the Twiggs discovered Kimberly Mays was their biological daughter and went to court against Kimberly's father, Bob Mays, for access. (Mays' wife had died long before the reveal.) That turned into a mess, to put it kindly. There is plenty online detailing the particulars.

No, I'm thinking of the young African American woman who had the dilemma of finding out she had two "mothers" and was torn between the two with the rivalry and alleged betrayal, etc. of the two and being estranged because of it, which wasn't her fault.  Another mess.

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On 8/12/2020 at 10:54 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

The more that I read about the Rey Rivera case, the more that I think that mental illness may have played a role. However, while that may explain Rey's behavior, it doesn't explain the other inconsistencies that were highlighted in the article.

Except its not physically possible for Rey Rivera's body to have wound up where it did on his own. So someone put him there, and given that he was 6'5 it was probably more than one person. Also the only possible symptom of mental illness is some paranoia when his house alarm goes off 2 nights in a row. Which isn't really consistent with mental illness I have heard of. Schizophrenia doesn't manifest overnight there are other warning signs you would see before the delusions start. Plus he was actually rather old to be manifesting for the first time.

I actually think drug use makes more sense. If not his own then possibly Porter's. Maybe Porter owed money to a dealer and the dealer knew Ray was his buddy. Coke and high finance do tend to go together and it would give Porter a reason to lie. I do wonder why Alison and the other Rivera's haven't tried to go for a wrongful death suit against Porter since it was a call from his office that brought Ray downtown in the first place. Threatening their money is usually a good way to get guys like him talking not too mention an excuse to subpoena his phone and employee records. 

The other sticking point for me with Ray Rivera is why someone would leave the body where they did. I think it would have to be either a) someone who worked at the Belvedere and knew that he wouldn't be found (although that begs the question of why they never tried to move the body in those six days before he was found) b) someone who was too high or otherwise impaired to realize he would be found or c) someone who thought they could make the suicide story stick. Like someone with enough connections to influence a police investigation.

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11 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:
On 8/12/2020 at 11:54 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

The more that I read about the Rey Rivera case, the more that I think that mental illness may have played a role. However, while that may explain Rey's behavior, it doesn't explain the other inconsistencies that were highlighted in the article.

Except its not physically possible for Rey Rivera's body to have wound up where it did on his own. So someone put him there, and given that he was 6'5 it was probably more than one person.

That is what always gets me about his case. How on earth did his body end up there in the way it did? What was up with his virtually untouched phone and I think glasses by the weirdly small hole left by his body as it supposedly came through the roof? As with The Lady in the Lake, it's not that his family insists he couldn't have committed suicide or wasn't mentally ill that got me, it's that the physical evidence makes no sense to me. He could not have jumped off that roof and landed in the way that he did. 

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