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David T. Cole

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6 hours ago, BookWitch said:

Very weird that the whole company immediately lawyer-ed up.

I think it was because they had just lost a fraud case and had to pay out millions.

The note that Rey taped to the computer was so weird and creepy. The movies listed were suspicious also, maybe the whole note was a code?

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Just watched the first episode of the new Netflix reboot.

Very bizarre and intriguing case. I get the feeling that Reyes may have stumbled on something inadvertently at his job, and someone lured him out of his house and killed him. Still doesn't explain how he wound up going through the hotel roof though - that was extremely weird - none of the angles they investigated seemed to work for him jumping or being thrown off.

The fact that his friend immediately lawyered up seemed especially suspicious - it sounded like he was already into shady dealings anyhow. Also suspicious that the one detective who believed it wasn't suicide conveniently got "transferred" off of the case. I think very big very dirty money was involved, and it will never be solved.  I felt very sad for his widow and his family - they seemed like such a loving close-knit group, and even his brother admitted that they've never recovered despite moving on in life.

Unlike others, I'm actually enjoying the brand new Netflix version. I know people are bummed that it doesn't follow the old format with multiple stories per hour, and re-enactments, but I don't think anything can measure up to fond nostalgia. The 1-hour 1 story format allows them to go a bit more in depth with the background detais. I just wish there were more than 6 episodes though, my appetite for this kind of thing is insatiable once it gets going. I also think they've done an excellent job updating the eerie theme music.

Of course, nothing can replicate the hosting/narration from Robert Stack. There was something truly special, spooky and shivery about his hosting of the original! 

I hope this thread stays active, I look forward to discussing the new eps, and it's fun to reminisce about the ones that creeped me out when I was young.

 

 

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I just watched the first three episodes of the series. Man, just hearing that music again sent chills down my spine and really put me in the mood for these stories. It did feel weird at first not having the multiple stories format, but I do agree that I do like how it allows us to get more in depth with the stories they do tell.

22 hours ago, starri said:

In addition to them having the good sense not to mess with the theme song, I liked that they included a brief sillhouette of Robert Stack in the opening credits.

Yes. Very nice touch indeed :). 

As for the stories themselves...

Ray Rivera - Yeeeeeeeah, I'm definitely thinking they need to look closer at that friend of his, too. I could perhaps buy someone wanting to jump off of that building, but there were plenty of areas around that building where all someone had to do was jump and they'd just land directly on the sidewalk below. It seems weird to pick a spot that would lead you to land on the top of a parking garage, and to jump from a spot where you'd have to fly pretty far to hit that particular area where the hole was. That kind of fall, the sort that leads to a hole in the roof and a body crashing through, from that kind of height? That would take a hell of a lot of force. Could one person jumping of their own accord cause that much force? I dunno. 

The fact that his glasses and phone weren't broken just adds to the doubt about it being a suicide. Even if he removed them before jumping, that still doesn't explain how they wound up there later. 

And that note! I mean, okay, his wife said it wasn't unusual for him to write random stuff and have it all kinda choppy and showing different trains of thought and whatnot, but....why was that one in particular taped to the wall behind his computer? If he wanted to save it for some other purpose, that seems an odd way to keep it safe. 

I'm glad the medical examiner is refusing to let the case close  That one police officer telling his wife that she "needs to accept" or "needs to understand", whatever it was, that it was a suicide was pretty cold. Even if that's what the police believe at this time, you still should have more compassion and understanding for the loved ones who just want some concrete answers. This story would fit perfectly on that "Accident, Suicide, or Murder" show, if it hasn't been covered there already. I hope the family can continue to keep investigating this, they deserve some resolution to this awful mystery. 

I also felt for the poor guy who found his body. He had great memories of working there, made his way up the ranks, and this is one of the last images he's left with before he leaves that job. 

Patrice Endres - Another heartbreaking story. Her poor son. You can just see how much what happened to her weighs on him to this day. It's really shitty that he doesn't have anything of hers. His stepdad was...weird. I think his emotion for Patrice was genuine, but his attitude towards her son really bugged the hell out of me. 

The wooded area around where the crime happened, and seeing her salon just standing there so empty, was incredibly haunting and creepy. As were those clips of those interviews with the serial killers. 

Dupont de Ligonnès tragedy - Who else immediately thought of John List during this story? Such a horrifically sad case. 

(On a completely different, and more positive, note for a moment, holy shit, Nantes, France is freaking stunning and if I ever get the money and means to do so someday, I want to go there. What an absolutely gorgeous area.)

Good start to this version of the series thus far. Will be interesting to see what other cases get covered. 

Edited by Annber03
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4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I just watched the first three episodes of the series. Man, just hearing that music again sent chills down my spine and really put me in the mood for these stories. It did feel weird at first not having the multiple stories format, but I do agree that I do like how it allows us to get more in depth with the stories they do tell.

Yes. Very nice touch indeed :). 

As for the stories themselves...

Ray Rivera - Yeeeeeeeah, I'm definitely thinking they need to look closer at that friend of his, too. I could perhaps buy someone wanting to jump off of that building, but there were plenty of areas around that building where all someone had to do was jump and they'd just land directly on the sidewalk below. It seems weird to pick a spot that would lead you to land on the top of a parking garage, and to jump from a spot where you'd have to fly pretty far to hit that particular area where the hole was. That kind of fall, the sort that leads to a hole in the roof and a body crashing through, from that kind of height? That would take a hell of a lot of force. Could one person jumping of their own accord cause that much force? I dunno. 

The fact that his glasses and phone weren't broken just adds to the doubt about it being a suicide. Even if he removed them before jumping, that still doesn't explain how they wound up there later. 

And that note! I mean, okay, his wife said it wasn't unusual for him to write random stuff and have it all kinda choppy and showing different trains of thought and whatnot, but....why was that one in particular taped to the wall behind his computer? If he wanted to save it for some other purpose, that seems an odd way to keep it safe. 

I'm glad the medical examiner is refusing to let the case close  That one police officer telling his wife that she "needs to accept" or "needs to understand", whatever it was, that it was a suicide was pretty cold. Even if that's what the police believe at this time, you still should have more compassion and understanding for the loved ones who just want some concrete answers. This story would fit perfectly on that "Accident, Suicide, or Murder" show, if it hasn't been covered there already. I hope the family can continue to keep investigating this, they deserve some resolution to this awful mystery. 

I also felt for the poor guy who found his body. He had great memories of working there, made his way up the ranks, and this is one of the last images he's left with before he leaves that job. 

Patrice Endres - Another heartbreaking story. Her poor son. You can just see how much what happened to her weighs on him to this day. It's really shitty that he doesn't have anything of hers. His stepdad was...weird. I think his emotion for Patrice was genuine, but his attitude towards her son really bugged the hell out of me. 

The wooded area around where the crime happened, and seeing her salon just standing there so empty, was incredibly haunting and creepy. As were those clips of those interviews with the serial killers. 

Dupont de Ligonnès tragedy - Who else immediately thought of John List during this story? Such a horrifically sad case. 

(On a completely different, and more positive, note for a moment, holy shit, Nantes, France is freaking stunning and if I ever get the money and means to do so someday, I want to go there. What an absolutely gorgeous area.)

Good start to this version of the series thus far. Will be interesting to see what other cases get covered. 

Nantes is gorgeous! The ocean, the mountains and the small town feel. I would also love to visit one day. 

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I watched the first two eps, and I'll keep watching. Unlike most, I never watched the original, for some reason, tho I've always been a true crime junkie. I think I thought it was a show 'old people' watched or some stupid thing, I don't know.

The first one, Rey Rivera...that one really creeped me out. There is just no way he jumped from the hotel roof, none of the trajectories worked, and just no explanation otherwise, either. And that note....that literally sent goose bumps all over me. Even given his habit of writing disjointed thoughts and ideas...wtf WAS that? and why was it miniaturized and hidden behind the computer? And the Freemason quote....it's SO creepy.

And yeah, my first thought on seeing his friend, even before suspicion was cast on him, was that he looked like a frat boy rapist type, so I'm all on board with thinking he's involved, and it seems far reaching, even to the cops. And yeah, it's somehow about money, or powerful men, or both. I felt so sad for his widow.

The Patrice Endres case was also so sad, her son is so damaged, and her husband is so...again, creepy. I guess I don't think he killed her, tho a hit for hire still might be a possibility, but he's an awful man. Locking the son out of the house, at 15, after he's just lost his mom...his house, with his stuff...he just was able to not allow him back in because he 'didn't like him'?? What a POS. And then his request to have her bones laid out and carrying around her skull, and then sleeping with her cremains? OMG. My jaw was literally agape with horror while watching him.

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The husband Rob in the second episode is horrible.  Pistol is the biological son and should have legal rights. Why would Rob change the locks so soon after Patrice went missing? What if she came back? He must have known for sure she was never coming back. 

The thing with getting the ashes out of the closet on the floor seems staged or something. Why are the remains in the closet on the floor if he loved her so much? 

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1 hour ago, non sequitur said:

The husband Rob in the second episode is horrible.  Pistol is the biological son and should have legal rights. Why would Rob change the locks so soon after Patrice went missing? What if she came back? He must have known for sure she was never coming back. 

The thing with getting the ashes out of the closet on the floor seems staged or something. Why are the remains in the closet on the floor if he loved her so much? 

That's where he stores them for the day when he's not sleeping with them at night.  Bizarre.  I wouldn't put it past Rob to have hired someone to kill Patrice.  He made sure he has a paper-trail time-stamped alibi.  She was obviously abducted from her salon.  She had had enough and wanted a divorce.  Rob wouldn't let someone else have her, even her son after her death.

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4 episodes in and here are a few quick thoughts

Ep 1: Rey's best friend was involved. No doubt.

Ep 2: Look up the definition of creepy in the dictionary and you will find a picture of Rob Endres

Ep 3: Xavier is alive and well somewhere. No idea where, but he is. (Gut Instinct, nothing more)

Ep 4. Alonzo's death was a hate crime, pure and simple. Add the fact that his body turned up when it did, they hid him somewhere. 

I'm hoping that with these cases being featured, someone will finally come forward and give the victims families some closure.

Also, while the one case per episode format takes a bit to get used to, its growing on me. Also, I'm glad they decided to not have a host this time. There is no one who could have hosted/narrated like Robert Stack did and anyone who would have been given the task, regardless of how they did, would have been ripped apart simply for not being Robert Stack. Though I greatly appreciated that they included him in the opening. 

Edited by ravencroft · Reason: Because I suck at grammar
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7 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Even given his habit of writing disjointed thoughts and ideas...wtf WAS that? and why was it miniaturized and hidden behind the computer? And the Freemason quote....it's SO creepy.

Talk to any writer and you'll learn they have notebooks and apps filled with story ideas, character inspirations, lines of dialogue, etc. I think that's what that paper was: a brain dump of ideas. People keep speculating it was a coded message but that doesn't make sense to me at all. Why encode a document like that? For what purpose? I could see him writing in code if he was going to send that to someone but that wasn't the case.  And, if it was code, why hide it? It took them months to find it so it's not like he had a line in his will telling his wife where to look.

I think there's a ton of stuff being attributed to his death that have nothing to do with it, namely the missing money clip, the disconnected cameras, etc. I don't think either had anything to do with Rey's death. That said, I absolutely think he was lured to that garage, beaten and murdered. That hole was the result of a straight drop at a high velocity. The jumping theory has been debunked for the most part. I think he was dropped from a helicopter (his friend had access to one) and his phone, glasses and flip-flops were dumped on the roof.

His poor wife. You can tell she's never recovered from the trauma. I hope she's not re-traumatized by having this episode air and having the internet start digging around her life.

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15 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Dupont de Ligonnès tragedy - Who else immediately thought of John List during this story? Such a horrifically sad case. 

I haven't watched this one yet, but the John List story was one that creeped me the hell out when I watched it during the show's original Robert Stack run. When I initially saw it, List had not yet been apprehended. Subsequent tips from the show led to his arrest  - he was living a quiet life under a new identity some twenty odd years after methodically murdering his entire family. It really stuck with me, as it was such a gothic tragic story. I was glad he was caught.

Edited by Cheezwiz · Reason: spelling is important
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With Rey Rivera I wonder if the answer is that the hole in the roof was already there and they beat Rey to death and just shoved him through the hole to cover up what happened. The room he landed in was no longer used the hole could have been caused by rain and decay and been there for weeks. It would explain why his stuff was just scattered about. I wonder if there would have been a way to tell the difference forensically. 

Edited to add: Did it seem like to anyone else that the property manager wanted to say more than he did? Like he saw something or realized something but didn't connect it until later or even until he heard from the show.

Edited by Emily Thrace
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1 hour ago, Emily Thrace said:

he room he landed in was no longer used the hole could have been caused by rain and decay and been there for weeks. It would explain why his stuff was just scattered about. I wonder if there would have been a way to tell the difference forensically. 

That occurred to me as well - I wonder if there was a way to tell forensically if the hole was already there before he went through. If he went through a metal roof, he would have had to have been dropped from a great height to penetrate it. That scenario makes me wonder if he could have been dropped from a helicopter, but that's kind of a nonsensical theory, and he probably would have sustained much more physical damage. I bet the hole was already there.

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25 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

That occurred to me as well - I wonder if there was a way to tell forensically if the hole was already there before he went through. If he went through a metal roof, he would have had to have been dropped from a great height to penetrate it. That scenario makes me wonder if he could have been dropped from a helicopter, but that's kind of a nonsensical theory, and he probably would have sustained much more physical damage. I bet the hole was already there.

I went for a walk and thought about it some more (can you tell Covid has made me seriously bored) and Rey's injuries aren't really consistent with a fall from great height. I suspect that's why the ME ruled the way he did. Usually when you jump or are thrown of a building you land head first because that's the heaviest part of the body. There usually isn't much left of the skull but the cop only mentioned a fracture to the back of the skull not the front like you would expect. Also the way he broke both his legs with bones exposed would make more sense if he landed on his feet which wouldn't make sense if he came off The Belvedere. I think he was running away from someone and jumped off the parking deck to get away in a panic and broke both his legs. Whoever was chasing him caught up to him inflicted his other injuries found the hole and shoved him through it. Sadly since his money clip was never found it might be he just got jumped for his cash and it went really badly wrong.

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18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

 

Dupont de Ligonnès tragedy - ....Such a horrifically sad case. 

(On a completely different, and more positive, note for a moment, holy shit, Nantes, France is freaking stunning and if I ever get the money and means to do so someday, I want to go there. What an absolutely gorgeous area.)

Good start to this version of the series thus far. Will be interesting to see what other cases get covered. 

They kept saying he could’ve jumped on a cargo ship and gone as far as Latin America. Was/is it really that easy to hop on a cargo ship and go anywhere in the world without the appropriate documentation? Maybe I’m being naive here. Lol. But I’d think you’d need some type of credentials to be on the ship unless they’re saying he escaped by being a stowaway, which I guess is possible. I think it’s more likely that he died in the mountains and they were never able to find his body. Or he was able to cross over to Italy on foot and made his way to wherever to start a new life. Very sad and horrific case. How narcissistic and depraved to kill his whole family due to his own personal shame, but then possibly run off to another country to start a new life. 

And I agree. Nantes was absolutely stunning. 

21 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I went for a walk and thought about it some more (can you tell Covid has made me seriously bored) and Rey's injuries aren't really consistent with a fall from great height. I suspect that's why the ME ruled the way he did. Usually when you jump or are thrown of a building you land head first because that's the heaviest part of the body. There usually isn't much left of the skull but the cop only mentioned a fracture to the back of the skull not the front like you would expect. Also the way he broke both his legs with bones exposed would make more sense if he landed on his feet which wouldn't make sense if he came off The Belvedere. I think he was running away from someone and jumped off the parking deck to get away in a panic and broke both his legs. Whoever was chasing him caught up to him inflicted his other injuries found the hole and shoved him through it. Sadly since his money clip was never found it might be he just got jumped for his cash and it went really badly wrong.

I’m wondering if he could’ve possibly been run down with a car and the impact caused his fall? Or perhaps he was running from someone and was forced to jump to his death as you’ve stated? Like everyone else, I don’t believe it was suicide. He likely discovered something he shouldn’t have at his friends company. Or got involved in something that was illegal and related to the company which led to his death. 
 

Sandy Klemp/McCullough was/is a piece of work. Her episode was more appropriate for a crime show, I think, than UM. It was pretty obvious what she had done. No mystery here. And though the one daughter said that her mother was a good mom while she and her sisters were growing up, I don’t think she was. Having a revolving door of men in her life (all of whom was her current husband’s brother or someone else’s husband), and never being home to raise her daughters doesn’t sound like a good mom to me. It’s so sad what likely happened to Lena and infuriating  that Sandy has custody of her son. I suspect her case nor Gary McCollough’s case will ever be officially solved, unless Sandy’s ex-husband decides to talk. 

Edited by Enero
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Holy Hell!

I just watched Episode 2 (Thirteen Minutes) about the abducted hairdresser. Yeah, her husband wasn't creepy AT ALL. I bet the show's producers & camera crew probably had expressions on their faces like this after filming that guy. I know I certainly did! Her poor son.

 

terror.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Enero said:

They kept saying he could’ve jumped on a cargo ship and gone as far as Latin America. Was/is it really that easy to hop on a cargo ship and go anywhere in the world without the appropriate documentation? Maybe I’m being naive here. Lol. But I’d think you’d need some type of credentials to be on the ship unless they’re saying he escaped by being a stowaway, which I guess is possible. I think it’s more likely that he died in the mountains and they were never able to find his body. Or he was able to cross over to Italy on foot and made his way to wherever to start a new life. Very sad and horrific case. How narcissistic and depraved to kill his whole family due to his own personal shame, but then possibly run off to another country to start a new life. 

I'm wondering about that, too. I mean, the crime happened in 2011, this is an era where cameras are everywhere (hell, he was seen on one before he vanished), and social media is a thing, and unless you live a completely hermit sort of lifestyle, it's impossible to go anywhere nowadays without your movements being tracked somehow, some way. And given how he flaunted where he was going for a time after he took off on that supposed "final trip to happier places", and given his prestigious upbringing and fancy title and whatnot, he's clearly not a hermit sort nor do I think he would last long staying in complete isolation, away from everyone and everything, and away from the fancy life he'd become accustomed to and wanted back. He'd be noticed somehow. Unless he got someone in his super rich circles to help him escape undercover or something, perhaps, and is hiding somewhere with all the creature comforts he wants and needs? I dunno? 

I agree that it's also plausible he died eventually, too, whether due to the elements or ultimately by his own hand if/when he got tired of running or felt people were closing in, even if they actually weren't. 

Quote

I’m wondering if he could’ve possibly been run down with a car and the impact caused his fall? 

Oh, that's a good theory, too. Certainly would be an obvious place for that to happen. 

 

Edited by Annber03
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9 hours ago, non sequitur said:

The husband Rob in the second episode is horrible.  Pistol is the biological son and should have legal rights. Why would Rob change the locks so soon after Patrice went missing? What if she came back? He must have known for sure she was never coming back. 

The thing with getting the ashes out of the closet on the floor seems staged or something. Why are the remains in the closet on the floor if he loved her so much? 

Yes, this! The shenanigans with those ashes was beyond EXTRA. He was so in love and heartbroken that he literally slept with the woman's ashes every night, and yet they're just shoved into the closet floor in a ratty cardboard box? Yeah, that tracks. Also, having the funeral parlor lay out her remains like that was the creepiest crap ever, as though he was admiring his handy work. 

7 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

That's where he stores them for the day when he's not sleeping with them at night.  Bizarre.  I wouldn't put it past Rob to have hired someone to kill Patrice.  He made sure he has a paper-trail time-stamped alibi.  She was obviously abducted from her salon.  She had had enough and wanted a divorce.  Rob wouldn't let someone else have her, even her son after her death.

I totally think that not only did he kill her but he full on told us how when he laid out that "what if" scenario with the abduction, being held hostage, and then wheel barreled into the woods. I think he paid people to abduct her and then did the deed himself because he seems like the type of control freak/maniacal asshole that would need to kill her with his own two hands. His alibi was too air tight, ready with the receipt and whatnot, and then he points out that he has a degree in criminology or that he studied it? I don't recall exactly. The second he mentioned that it was a red flag for me. The way he treated her teenaged son was absolutely reprehensible as well. He is truly vile. 

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Rob Endres seems like a sociopath trying to act like he thinks we want him to and failing really badly at it (the performance with the ashes was creepy x1000 and the story of picking up the skull was off the charts strange).  And to treat a child the way he treated Pistol after Patrice’s death....unforgivable.  

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10 hours ago, ravencroft said:

Ep 4. Alonzo's death was a hate crime, pure and simple. Add the fact that his body turned up when it did, they hid him somewhere. 

Agreed. Especially considering how the stuff he had on him was barely damaged despite his body being found in a creek. Someone at that party absolutely knows something about what happened that night and I really hope they do come forward soon. Geeing the heartbreak in Alonzo's mom's face was just...so gutwrenching :(. I feel for that whole family. 

I'm also kinda irritated with the local/state investigators, 'cause it doesn't seem like they were all that invested in solving the case. And that letter towards the end, just such an, "Oh, well, not much else we can do" sort of attitude about it. I don't blame the family for their frustration. 

5 hours ago, Enero said:

Sandy Klemp/McCullough was/is a piece of work. Her episode was more appropriate for a crime show, I think, than UM. It was pretty obvious what she had done. No mystery here. And though the one daughter said that her mother was a good mom while she and her sisters were growing up, I don’t think she was. Having a revolving door of men in her life (all of whom was her current husband’s brother or someone else’s husband), and never being home to raise her daughters doesn’t sound like a good mom to me. It’s so sad what likely happened to Lena and infuriating  that Sandy has custody of her son. I suspect her case nor Gary McCollough’s case will ever be officially solved, unless Sandy’s ex-husband decides to talk. 

Sandy is scary. Letting a guy pull a gun on her young daughter out in the middle of nowhere late at night, doing nothing to stop him for the longest time? Good lord. Poor Brandi. And then all the creepiness with her obsession about getting her grandson. Just so horrible. I could hear the fear in Lena's voice on that recording of her conversation with Albert, it didn't surprise me to hear him say she was trembling as she confessed everything to him. Sandy certainly knew how to intimidate and manipulate people, that's for sure. 

I'm nervous for her other daughters, going up against their mom as they are, but of course, I fully support them doing so. It wouldn't surprise me if Kris did squeal eventually, should the opportunity ever present itself, since he's got no reason to protect and defend Sandy anymore. I hope they are able to find Lena and Sandy and Kris can pay at long last. 

What are we all to make of the weird 1969 UFO story? Normally the UFO stories didn't grab me as much in the original series (though there was one I very clearly remember about people who claimed to see one and then got some sort of weird sickness and blotches or whatever on their skin afterward that freaked me out a bit), but this story was rather interesting, and a bit of a nice break from so many sad, horrifying stories. I'm willing to believe these people clearly saw something strange that night-so many people across numerous towns and states making similar claims, there's got to be some truth in there somewhere (cue the "X-Files" tagline :p). And police were getting numerous reports that same night, and this was obviously well before the days of internet and social media, so it's not like they were all able to speak to each other and come up with the same fantastical story at once or something. 

I don't know that I'd go so far as to say it was aliens or something like that, but given how often people talk about secret military tests and experiments and whatnot (especially in this time period, with the Cold War going on and all), perhaps it was something like that, something that messed with their minds and actions somehow (like maybe the grandma and her daughter were hypnotized into switching places in the car)? 

It's a shame there's not much in the way of official record or mention of this strange phenomenon out there, it'd be interesting to see what other experiences and sightings people had that night. 

Nice to have this show back. Look forward to seeing what other kinds of stories they'll feature on here down the line. 

Edited by Annber03
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Rob Endres killed Patrice, full stop. What a fucking psychopath. I cried for Pistol (that name, though...). I can't imagine treating a 15-year-old boy, his stepson, the way Rob did. He absolutely broke that boy, who was already distraught from his mother missing...and then being found dead. I couldn't help but think of my own stepfather, who married my mother when I was 17. He treats me and my sisters as if we are his own flesh-and-blood daughters. I'd wager most stepparents do.

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The first case was about Rey.  The wife mentioned Porter Stansberry.  I thought the name sounded obnoxious the minute I heard it.  Or maybe it was how she pronounced it.  But I took notice.  I believe he is deeply involved in what happened to Rey.  My suspicion is that Rey discovered something crooked about his buddy and the company he was working for.  He was lured away and killed.  The mysterious part is how exactly he made that hole in the roof and yet his glasses and phone never broke.  I doubt the case will ever be solved.

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Why why why did Alonzo's friends leave him at that party?  I wanted more details on how they even found that party.  Someone had to know someone that invited them.  The party was an hour away at some farm.  They didn't just stumble on the party.  Who told them about it?  There had to be someone who knew more.

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10 hours ago, Enero said:

They kept saying he could’ve jumped on a cargo ship and gone as far as Latin America. Was/is it really that easy to hop on a cargo ship and go anywhere in the world without the appropriate documentation? Maybe I’m being naive here. Lol. But I’d think you’d need some type of credentials to be on the ship unless they’re saying he escaped by being a stowaway, which I guess is possible. I think it’s more likely that he died in the mountains and they were never able to find his body. Or he was able to cross over to Italy on foot and made his way to wherever to start a new life. Very sad and horrific case. How narcissistic and depraved to kill his whole family due to his own personal shame, but then possibly run off to another country to start a new life. 

 

10 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I'm wondering about that, too. I mean, the crime happened in 2011, this is an era where cameras are everywhere (hell, he was seen on one before he vanished), and social media is a thing, and unless you live a completely hermit sort of lifestyle, it's impossible to go anywhere nowadays without your movements being tracked somehow, some way. And given how he flaunted where he was going for a time after he took off on that supposed "final trip to happier places", and given his prestigious upbringing and fancy title and whatnot, he's clearly not a hermit sort nor do I think he would last long staying in complete isolation, away from everyone and everything, and away from the fancy life he'd become accustomed to and wanted back. He'd be noticed somehow. Unless he got someone in his super rich circles to help him escape undercover or something, perhaps, and is hiding somewhere with all the creature comforts he wants and needs? I dunno? 

I agree that it's also plausible he died eventually, too, whether due to the elements or ultimately by his own hand if/when he got tired of running or felt people were closing in, even if they actually weren't. 

I've only watched the episode on the Dupont de Ligonnès murders and I couldn't fall asleep after watching it. The two comments above reflect my feelings about this horrific case.

It is much more difficult - although not impossible - to travel outside of your country now (and in 2011) than it was many years ago. And, as we saw, there are cameras everywhere. For him to be alive right now, he would have needed money, fake IDs, safe house, perhaps a burner phone, etc. As far as we know, the police never found anyone that had been in touch with him, not even a mistress, to provide him with access to these things. He obviously was methodical in planning this crime so perhaps he was able to secure these necessities on his own but I still believe that we would have needed assistance. He wasn't getting far without an ID/passport and cash. 

If I had to guess, I'd say that he committed suicide at some point. He seemed to like the "good life" so I don't imagine that he is still alive in some cabin in the woods in the French mountains. Perhaps he thought that he could settle somewhere and live life as the Count only to find that life as a fugitive is not easy either.  I'd like to think that, whatever his original plans were, he could not live with the guilt of murdering his family. 

Edited by Ellaria Sand
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I've only watched the first 2 so far.

OK, Rey often wrote down random thoughts and names and whatnot. But the examples were all handwritten in notebooks and apparently left in the open. As opposed to the mystery note, which was typed and hidden. I don't think it's particularly sketchy that the business lawyered up and I'm sure the lawyers told Porter (what a name) to STFU but some kind of statement would have been a good idea. And this long after whatever happened happened, talking to the show would have little impact on business, I'd have thought. So not speaking looks even more suspicious.

Rob Endres is definitely a creepy asshole. There is no question there. I got the feeling, though, that there is more to Pistol's story than just being a difficult teenager--he was a regular at the principal's office, for example. Again, this in no way justifies locking the kid out of his own house and denying him anything of his mother's. It looks to me like the show downplayed Pistol's behavior in order to build more sympathy for him and that annoys me.

I never watched the original but do enjoy whenever Drunk History does their take-off of it--Drunk Mysteries.

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The issue I have with Rob Endres killing his wife is that he seems smarter than that. Abducting her from work and dragging her to the woods is odd for a killer for hire. There are many much more straightforward and less likely to attract attention ways of killing someone. Running her off the road for example. If Rob did hire someone he hired the dumbest hired killers ever. They grabbed her in broad daylight and two people saw it. It looks more like a chance opportunist than anything planned out. Someone was watching her and noticed she was alone and grabbed her. For that reason I like the local serial killers better as suspects. The Georgia plates to fit better with this. I wonder if even it was some whackjob who was just driving through stumbled across her.

One theory that is the result of watching too much tv is that Pam had someone else who was in love with her and they did it. Either she was having an affair or she had a stalker. Hairdressers like nurses tend to have men mistake them doing their jobs for affection since its a somewhat intimate caregiving service. Especially friendly chatty ones like Pam. I wonder if a client mistook her asking about his day and how their family is for real feelings and killed her when she rejected him. 

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On 7/1/2020 at 3:16 PM, Hero said:

don't think the reboot could ever be like the original, because Robert Stack played a major part of how creepy it was.

That's the key reason the Dennis Farina version sucked.

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3 hours ago, LakeGal said:

Why why why did Alonzo's friends leave him at that party?  I wanted more details on how they even found that party.  Someone had to know someone that invited them.  The party was an hour away at some farm.  They didn't just stumble on the party.  Who told them about it?  There had to be someone who knew more.

It seemed like the group all arrived in different cars. One group left because they wanted to go to another party, the one guy left to get cigarettes but got lost and it seemed like he was half way home before realizing and just continued. He then called a third friend to ensure Zo had a ride home. So the question really is what did that third friend do and why. I think his friends were all 18ish since they said he was older than them - so old enough to know better sure but still teenagers who were most likely drunk and stupid. I remember having to shove my brother's friends out of the car because they wanted to drive drunk from a party. Teenagers do stupid shit with no ill intent... I think it was just a case of everyone thinking someone else had him and in the end, none of them did. 

Regarding your second point.... I feel like that is just how parties happen when you're teenagers. You hear from this friend who heard from their cousin who heard from their girlfriend that someone has an empty house for the weekend so a party is happening. 

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That said, I absolutely think he was lured to that garage, beaten and murdered. That hole was the result of a straight drop at a high velocity. The jumping theory has been debunked for the most part. I think he was dropped from a helicopter (his friend had access to one) and his phone, glasses and flip-flops were dumped on the roof.

This was my theory to a T and I have to wonder why it wasn't even addressed in show, like did the cops think of it, investigate and dismiss it? But I also don't know why they would break both his legs, seems like a torture move and they were trying to get something out of him rather than just you shut him up about whatever they think he might have known. He was shooting video for the company too could be they thought he had hard evidence that could come back to haunt them so beat the shit out of him to make sure he did/didn't, before they dropped him out of the helicopter.

 

Quote

 I think he was running away from someone and jumped off the parking deck to get away in a panic and broke both his legs. Whoever was chasing him caught up to him inflicted his other injuries found the hole and shoved him through it.

I think the ME did say the other injuries were consistent with a big fall at high velocity, plus it wouldn't have had to be super high to have created enough velocity for him to go through the roof. I think this scenario is a lot of coincidences he just happens to jump onto the roof with a hole to a room no one uses attached to a building where he works? But it would be useful to know if they explored/dismissed the helicopter option because witnesses missing THAT aurally or visually would be pretty crazy.

I'd also point out the Baltimore cops are corrupt AF and that Rey's death intersected with a very wealthy and connected guy in his friend would definitely lead me to believe it was murder v. robbery/suicide.

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2 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

The issue I have with Rob Endres killing his wife is that he seems smarter than that. Abducting her from work and dragging her to the woods is odd for a killer for hire. There are many much more straightforward and less likely to attract attention ways of killing someone. Running her off the road for example. If Rob did hire someone he hired the dumbest hired killers ever. They grabbed her in broad daylight and two people saw it. It looks more like a chance opportunist than anything planned out. Someone was watching her and noticed she was alone and grabbed her. For that reason I like the local serial killers better as suspects. The Georgia plates to fit better with this. I wonder if even it was some whackjob who was just driving through stumbled across her.

Rob may be smart, but as displayed on the show for all the world to see, he has many, many screws loose. I like the theory someone posted above, that he hired someone to abduct her, and then did the job himself. He kind of gave it away with the "hypothetical" scenarios he was floating - my impression was that those were delicious fantasies he'd been harbouring for a long time. I think he got wind that she was planning to leave him, and if he couldn't have her, no one else would either. He could then snuggle up to her remains for the rest of his time on earth. Gah! What a creep!

I do think some of those other suspects were worth pursuing as well (good lord, there seemed to be a lot of serial killer types crawling around that part of Georgia) - that one guy's testimony was particularly chilling, even if it was deemed false at the time.

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Just watched the Dupont de Ligonnes episode last night. That was truly tragic and horrific. I feel like The Count was alive for at least awhile anyways, not sure if he still is, but his exit seemed almost like it was intentionally staged, and just a bit too tidy. He was so methodical and precise in his planning, that I don't think it was implausible that he could have escaped and started life elsewhere. Yes, there are cameras everywhere, but as the detective in the show mentioned, he was an extremely bland looking man, who could have modified his appearance slightly and moved around unnoticed. He came from wealthy circles, so it's conceivable that he could have figured out how to obtain forged documents. Nantes looks like a beautiful city, and the region he vanished in was also beautiful looking - almost prehistoric in a way. I could certainly imagine sabre tooth tigers roaming around there.

There were so many parallels with the John List story that aired on the original series. List was a controlling man who cared about outward appearances, but was in dire financial straits. He too murdered his family members one by one and neatly laid them out in the spooky mansion they lived in. He was careful to let everyone know that the family was leaving on extended vacation, so it was a long time before anyone caught on that things were amiss. He went on the run and lived for decades under another identity. The kicker to that story? The grand house they lived in had an original Tiffany glass dome over top a ballroom. It's sale would have solved all of his financial woes.

Next to the unexplained disappearances, these stories freak me out the most. I can't imagine the terror the family members must have felt at the end. Imagine that not only are you aware you're about to be murdered, but the murderer is someone you've loved and trusted your whole life. 

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Dupont de Ligonnès tragedy-What made the cops look under the terrace after the 5th visit? 

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44 minutes ago, BookWitch said:

Dupont de Ligonnès tragedy-What made the cops look under the terrace after the 5th visit? 

Something they didn't mention on the show - wouldn't the smell have been overpowering at some point? Maybe that's what finally led them outside.

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46 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

Something they didn't mention on the show - wouldn't the smell have been overpowering at some point? Maybe that's what finally led them outside.

I was wondering about the smell. It seems like very shoddy police work to visit the home so many times and leave.  I wonder if the forensic team might have missed some evidence to account for no blood or tissue found anywhere.

This episode was especially horrific and disturbing.

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I can believe the smell was relatively contained it was a crawl space under the back porch and they were well wrapped up. The show made it seems like the dog bowls and no dogs is what made them look under those bowls. Not to say it was shoddy police work to have not noticed until six days later, it's weird that their search wasn't thorough until the sixth time they looked.

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5 hours ago, weightyghost said:

Regarding your second point.... I feel like that is just how parties happen when you're teenagers. You hear from this friend who heard from their cousin who heard from their girlfriend that someone has an empty house for the weekend so a party is happening. 

Yeah, I've gone to gatherings like that with friends at somebody's farmhouse out in some rural area, too (I live in Iowa), and that's pretty much how it goes. Course, in my case, the houses we went to were ones people actually lived in, not just some place where people are there one night and the house is empty the next day (no way would I feel comfortable going to a party at a place like that). 

I do take the point that it'd be hard to carry a body through all those woods and brush and whatnot, but if someone did move his body to that creek, it'd have to be someone who's familiar with the area, because that's a lot of deep woods to wade through. So yeah, it's got to be some locals who committed this crime. 

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2 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Something they didn't mention on the show - wouldn't the smell have been overpowering at some point? Maybe that's what finally led them outside.

1 hour ago, non sequitur said:

I was wondering about the smell. It seems like very shoddy police work to visit the home so many times and leave.  I wonder if the forensic team might have missed some evidence to account for no blood or tissue found anywhere.

This episode was especially horrific and disturbing.

I don’t think it was mentioned on the show but according to Wikipedia, Xavier bought several bags of lime either right before or after the murders. So this likely help disguise the smell of the corpses along with how and where they were buried. 
 

3 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Next to the unexplained disappearances, these stories freak me out the most. I can't imagine the terror the family members must have felt at the end. Imagine that not only are you aware you're about to be murdered, but the murderer is someone you've loved and trusted your whole life. 

Apparently everyone was drugged with sleeping pills, save for the mom in the DuPont case. Thankfully. And the mom might not have been aware of what was coming either. They said she had a machine that helped her sleep due to sleep apnea but it was turned off at three in the morning. So with her having sleep apnea perhaps he didn’t feel the need to drug her? And just shot her in her sleep? I hope she didn’t know what was coming. How horrific if she did. 

Though he was an aristocrat it sounded like his family’s legacy had been in ruins for a while, but since he did have his family name and that title he was able to keep up appearances. I’m sure both helped him get credit and loans etc. that helped keep his life of affluence going. They said that the father died in financial ruin, he was renting his residence and was on the verge of poverty. So it was only a matter of time before his family name and title would mean nothing.  

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On 7/2/2020 at 4:56 PM, non sequitur said:

The husband Rob in the second episode is horrible.  Pistol is the biological son and should have legal rights. Why would Rob change the locks so soon after Patrice went missing? What if she came back? He must have known for sure she was never coming back. 

I know he had his air-tight alibi (well not so air-tight, since the detective made clear he wasn't entirely ruled out, they just couldn't find anything solid linking him to it. And that convinced me the detective probably suspects Rob too), but dude had red flags glaring all over the place that made me positive he's guilty as sin. 

First, his smugly dropping how he studied criminology, which fit right in with his conveniently detailed timeline of getting gas and ensuring it was 45 minutes away and time-stapped. But what made me side-eye Rob the most was his whole scenario of how Patrice may have been killed that almost sounded as if he was inadvertently telling how he did it. 

As they say, criminals often return to the scene of the crime, one to know what the police know but two, sometimes they're so impressed with in their minds, their cleverness, they almost want people to know what they did. Rob gave me arrogant and smug douchebag vibes. He'd very much be the type to want people to know he did it and got away with it and there was nothing they could do about it. 

But his saying how Patrice wasn't necessarily killed that same day raised huge flags for me and perfectly explained how he could have done it. I think some people assume whatever happened to Pratrice happened in the shop or near the shop. But she could have just as easily been lured somewhere and killed later. I wonder if they ever did a thorough search of the house. Because that changing of locks the day after screamed someone with something to hide, who didn't want anyone but him getting in.

And even if Rob didn't kill Patrice, I don't know how dude expects anyone to not look at him sideways and believe he actually loved this woman, with how he treated her kid. Even if he and Pistol didn't get along, to change locks on a teenager the day after his mother, who you say you loved, who loved her son, goes missing, is some cold ass, hateful shit. 

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4 hours ago, Enero said:

Apparently everyone was drugged with sleeping pills, save for the mom in the DuPont case. Thankfully. And the mom might not have been aware of what was coming either. They said she had a machine that helped her sleep due to sleep apnea but it was turned off at three in the morning. So with her having sleep apnea perhaps he didn’t feel the need to drug her? And just shot her in her sleep? I hope she didn’t know what was coming.  

I could have sworn the daughter was the one with sleep apnea. Then it was mentioned there were rumors people saw the wife alive after the kids would have been murdered.

I might be wrong here. I watched the first three episodes late last night. Lol.

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13 hours ago, ABay said:

he was a regular at the principal's office, for example.

He made the comment about that being a normal thing when he was discussing being called to the Principal's office when they found his mom's remains. So I got the impression that started after his mom disappeared, which I mean, I think teenage kid acting out after his mother vanishes and likely was murdered, makes sense.

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24 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

He made the comment about that being a normal thing when he was discussing being called to the Principal's office when they found his mom's remains. So I got the impression that started after his mom disappeared, which I mean, I think teenage kid acting out after his mother vanishes and likely was murdered, makes sense.

This, and Rob letting Pistol know he didn't like him, creating family tension, could cause a kid confusion and acting-out behavior.

2 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I could have sworn the daughter was the one with sleep apnea. Then it was mentioned there were rumors people saw the wife alive after the kids would have been murdered.

I might be wrong here. I watched the first three episodes late last night. Lol.

It was the mother with sleep apnea.

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I just watched Episode 3 - the Alonzo Brooks case. So heartbreaking for his family - 15 years with no answers. Clearly a hate crime, someone hid his body somewhere and then dumped it once the official police searches looked like they had been concluded.

My big fear was that his friends from Gardner might have deliberately set him up and then abandoned him, but I don't think that's the case. I could be wrong, but I sure hope not anyway. If I were the one friend who had gone out for cigarettes and gotten lost, I'm not sure I could have coped with the guilt of not getting back and picking him up.

This episode was a reminder that there are some truly nasty little towns all over the place. I bet there are a TON of people in LaCygne who know exactly what happened that night, who was responsible, and have clammed up all this time. 

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8 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I just watched Episode 3 - the Alonzo Brooks case. So heartbreaking for his family - 15 years with no answers. Clearly a hate crime, someone hid his body somewhere and then dumped it once the official police searches looked like they had been concluded.

My big fear was that his friends from Gardner might have deliberately set him up and then abandoned him, but I don't think that's the case. I could be wrong, but I sure hope not anyway. If I were the one friend who had gone out for cigarettes and gotten lost, I'm not sure I could have coped with the guilt of not getting back and picking him up.

This episode was a reminder that there are some truly nasty little towns all over the place. I bet there are a TON of people in LaCygne who know exactly what happened that night, who was responsible, and have clammed up all this time. 

The friends who participated in the documentary seemed genuine IMO. Two of the friends left the party early. Justin whom Alonzo caught a ride with to the party was the one who got lost going for cigarettes and never returned to the party. What I find odd about his story was that it was stated that the town where the party was held had nothing, not even a grocery store. So where was he going to go buy cigarettes?

Also Justin stated that when he left the party Alonzo was still having a great time and that the vibe was good. But then the other two friends who participated in the documentary stated that Alonzo had an altercation with another individual at the party and that racial slurs were being thrown around which Alonzo didn’t take lightly. So either these incidents happened after Justin left for cigarettes, he’s lying about what he saw or he was completely blind to what was going on. Lastly it sounded like when Justin called back to the party to say he wasn’t coming back and to ensure Alonzo had a ride, he didn’t actually speak to Adam, the guy whom he tasked with giving Alonzo a ride. The way he told the story it sounds like he spoke to another friend and asked that friend to ask Adam to give Alonzo a ride.

When thinking about everyone’s accounts of what they saw at the party it makes me wonder if despite the negative incidents Alonzo was insistent on staying because he was having such a great time, while his friends were just ready to leave. I found it interesting that all of his closest friends left the party early due to some frivolous reason (cigarettes), another party or being bored (I think one friend said he left after only being there an hour), while Alonzo remained.  

All that said, I too believe a hate crime happened. It was a very small town and by all accounts very racist. It wouldn’t take much for someone to be set off by Alonzo’s presence, do something horrific and for the crime to be covered up. This type of thing has been going on for decades. A black man suspiciously disappearing and/or dying and the town folks etc. staying mum about what happened. 

I know that Justin was very young and naive at the time of the incident, but I still have to ask how could he leave his friend an hour away from home? They road to the party together. They should’ve gone home together too. And why didn’t they all leave the party as soon as the altercation happened and the racial slurs started flying? Just a lot of missteps and naivety I think on Alonzo and his friends parts. 

Very sad case. My heart goes out to his mother and family. 
 

Update:

FBI offers $100k reward in Alonzo Brooks case

Looks like the case is still being investigated by the FBI. I hope it’s eventually solved. 

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19 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Just watched the Dupont de Ligonnes episode last night. That was truly tragic and horrific. I feel like The Count was alive for at least awhile anyways, not sure if he still is, but his exit seemed almost like it was intentionally staged, and just a bit too tidy. He was so methodical and precise in his planning, that I don't think it was implausible that he could have escaped and started life elsewhere. Yes, there are cameras everywhere, but as the detective in the show mentioned, he was an extremely bland looking man, who could have modified his appearance slightly and moved around unnoticed. He came from wealthy circles, so it's conceivable that he could have figured out how to obtain forged documents...

...There were so many parallels with the John List story that aired on the original series. List was a controlling man who cared about outward appearances, but was in dire financial straits. He too murdered his family members one by one and neatly laid them out in the spooky mansion they lived in. He was careful to let everyone know that the family was leaving on extended vacation, so it was a long time before anyone caught on that things were amiss. He went on the run and lived for decades under another identity. The kicker to that story? The grand house they lived in had an original Tiffany glass dome over top a ballroom. It's sale would have solved all of his financial woes.

Regarding Xavier, if he is still alive, he has had help along the way. Someone out there knows something. I agree that his exit appears staged. I interpreted his "drive to places of happier times" as a contemptuous act, not one of a man about to commit suicide.  Everything was methodical and precise, as you say. He knew exactly what he was doing. 

I agree that Xavier is "bland looking." I know 2-3 men that bear a resemblance to him so yes, nothing about his looks are remarkable.

As far as the List murders, I grew up in a town near Westfield, where the murders occurred. A friend of mine knew List's daughter. It received extensive coverage back then. People were understandably horrified. The notion of quiet, peaceful suburbs - which has always been a myth - was shattered.

15 hours ago, Enero said:

I don’t think it was mentioned on the show but according to Wikipedia, Xavier bought several bags of lime either right before or after the murders. So this likely help disguise the smell of the corpses along with how and where they were buried...

Yes, I read about the bags of lime as well. Regardless of whether or not there was a smell, it seems that the area under the porch should have been searched earlier than when it was. I've also read other reports that he had a mistress and that his wife was well aware of their financial issues. Hard to know if either of those things are true.

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Can we all talk about Patrice's friend's Kate Gosselin haircut??

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On 7/2/2020 at 5:02 AM, Annber03 said:

Dupont de Ligonnès tragedy - Who else immediately thought of John List during this story? Such a horrifically sad case. 

Hell, Xavier probably got the idea from the List case. Aside from the obvious similarities, of murdering his whole family and disappearing, the family pictures were missing from the frames, similar to how List had cut himself out of every family picture, he made sure to leave the message to return mail to sender. And then the ridiculous letter to friends and family about being a spy for the DEA to explain their absence. 

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4 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Can we all talk about Patrice's friend's Kate Gosselin haircut??

Does it qualify as a Karen Haircut?  😄

 

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2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Hell, Xavier probably got the idea from the List case. Aside from the obvious similarities, of murdering his whole family and disappearing, the family pictures were missing from the frames, similar to how List had cut himself out of every family picture, he made sure to leave the message to return mail to sender. And then the ridiculous letter to friends and family about being a spy for the DEA to explain their absence. 

Yes, that's the most ridiculous part of the story.  Real spies don't go around announcing or revealing they are spies.  Xavier had an affinity for the USA; if he's still alive I wonder if he somehow made his way to the States, or Canada, or by way of Canada.  He could have traveled under disguise or newly changed hair color, style, cut, wig, facial hair, etc. to blend right in.

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I finished watching the final two episodes.

I know people like to mock the UFO & paranormal episodes, but The Berkshires episode was more interesting than I expected - more so for the portrait of the town, rather than the UFO incidents themselves. Clearly a bunch of people independent of each other experienced something extremely weird on the the same night, and it's had a profound effect on them ever since. How sad they were ridiculed and ostracized by their fellow citizens - and in one case driven completely out of town. It reminds me of some of what Shirley Jackson said about her time in New England: beneath the veneer of idyllic small town Norman Rockwell life, people were extremely insular and unwelcoming, quick to expel anyone who didn't fit in.

I wasn't very engaged with the final episode, as there was no mystery whatsoever, just a heinous psychopath who manipulated her daughters. I felt bad for the trauma the daughters endured, but there was nothing mysterious about the case. The only thing unsolved was where the missing daughter's remains wound up, and my guess is most likely she was disposed of in exactly the same manner as Sandy's previous husband. Infuriating that she would up with custody of her grandson when she's a cold-blooded murderer. Those young women just looked so beaten down by life - the eldest daughter Brandi is probably a good fifteen years younger than me, and looks my age or older.

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I had no idea the show had started up again now (knew it was coming, just not when!), and I just finished the first episode about Rey Rivera. No way in hell was that a suicide. Not with the way he left his home in a hurry, not with the mechanics of that hole and his injuries.

And I think it had EVERYTHING to do with his so-called "friend", Porter Stansberry. He had already gotten in deep shit with the SEC, etc. And Rey was hired to "clean him [Porter] up". And then he lawyers up after the body is discovered? Yeah, I think it was as his wife, Allison, said. He must have gotten wind of something bad, not realized how deep he was [hence his fear when the home alarm went off, etc.] until it was too late, and then paid with his life.

The Baltimore PD seemed to write this off quick. Not suspicious AT ALL.

I feel so badly for Rey's wife and family.

And I did like the opening credits with the little homage to Robert Stack.

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