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Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

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3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Bingo. Lmao

The ratings just show that maybe it's better not to bring Laurel back, which I'm sure goes against the reason why people wanted that promo to be the most watched one on YouTube. 

No I know. It's just that the hits on the promo was used as a way to prove that laurel is popular... Well the ratings don't prove that at all. 

Lol so then is it better to just not bring the show back in general? Cause obviously people are over everyone on there with the ratings sucking overall this season.

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26 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Lol so then is it better to just not bring the show back in general? Cause obviously people are over everyone on there with the ratings sucking overall this season.

??? Those are two wildly different things. 

Even though Arrow has low ratings - it's still the DCTV show that's least expensive to make unlike say LoT which is more expensive and has similar ratings. 

On the other hand, it's clear that KC does not bring in viewers or is a ratings draw, so her paycheck isn't worth it.

It's simple cost vs benefit. 

And you're probably going to bring up how Felicity doesn't bring in viewers... Well if you compare 410 vs 510, ratings went up a fraction with Felicity's cliffhanger compared to how ratings went down with the Laurel cliffhanger. Not only that but Felicity was barely promoted in 5A and she was basically sidelined for most of it too.

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Finals are in SPN ended up with a 0.6/1.72 just a tiny bit behind LoT in viewers and a bit ahead of Arrow.

Will have to see what next week brings but, I can't imagine anyone on Arrow was thrilled to see those numbers. Of course they could have easily expected them, I really don't know.

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I think the biggest disappointment this week was the flash. Interesting to see what they bring in next week. Because as it stands there will be now shows above 1.0 on the network.

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I'm sure that this has been posted already sometime in the past, but I'll (re)post is anyway, because it is astoundlingly accurate. at least when it comes to viewer numbers:

http://rillacuthbert.tumblr.com/post/151450182766/arrow-s5-ratings-models

The prediction for 5X10 was overly optimistic (even the pessimistic one/Oliver), but otherwise I think the chart shows what to expect in episodes to come. TBH, I don't believe that the presence of this or that character in the promos, or the highlighting of any particular character/storyline will affect the number of Nielsen households who will tune in to watch the show. IF (and that's a pretty big if!) online sentiments reflect the preferences and feelings of the overall viewership,  there is no real across-the-board enthusiasm about the current direction of the show. It seems highly unlikely that "Arrow" will ever get back the approx. one million viewers it's lost since season three (which had a 2.7/1.01 average), especially if you consider that ALL Berlanti CW shows are losing viewers this season.

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-three-ratings-34284/

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Those numbers are pretty depressing.

I think an added problem for Arrow is that the EPs look at the season globally ("Just wait, the second half of the season will pull all the threads together") while viewers watch episode by episode.  Writers may want to play around with new characters but if they back-burner the ones viewers want to watch, whether it's Diggle, Felicity or Thea, or put to the fore storylines viewers have a hard time swallowing (like John Campea who quit when Laurel suddenly became the Black Canary), viewers are going to drop away even fast.  This is true for all shows, even cult hits like Sherlock.

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3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

??? Those are two wildly different things. 

Even though Arrow has low ratings - it's still the DCTV show that's least expensive to make unlike say LoT which is more expensive and has similar ratings. 

On the other hand, it's clear that KC does not bring in viewers or is a ratings draw, so her paycheck isn't worth it.

It's simple cost vs benefit. 

And you're probably going to bring up how Felicity doesn't bring in viewers... Well if you compare 410 vs 510, ratings went up a fraction with Felicity's cliffhanger compared to how ratings went down with the Laurel cliffhanger. Not only that but Felicity was barely promoted in 5A and she was basically sidelined for most of it too.

I wasn't going to bring up Felicity at all but since you did, yeah that cliff hanger was a lot bigger especially since the audience knew someone was going to die. And maybe im not remembering clearly but the cliff hanger wasn't spoiled besides pap photos.

The audience doesn't seem compelled by anyone this season.

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15 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I wasn't going to bring up Felicity at all but since you did, yeah that cliff hanger was a lot bigger especially since the audience knew someone was going to die. And maybe im not remembering clearly but the cliff hanger wasn't spoiled besides pap photos.

If you mean the cliffhanger wasn't spoiled as in people actually thought Felicity was going to die, Echo K. posted on set photos of EBR the day the MSF aired. It was part of his Instagram Takeover of Entertainment Tonight's account. Not exactly obscure pap photos spoiling that Felicity was still alive and well as they were filming 4B

Edited by lemotomato
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Yup - Felicity's fate was spoiled as well. But also, even though it was spoiled on the internet - this knowledge wouldn't have reached the general audience and I doubt the spoiling of Felicity's fate had a great effect on the ratings. 

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I guess I'd just like to know if those responsible care that the show lost so many viewers and they look into it. Obviously a higher-up requested BC because they consider that to be a reason. But I doubt they lost each and every single one of those viewers because of killing BC. 

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I don't know if there is any proof that Black Canary was requested because of ratings? Katie came back because of what's rumoured to be a contract requirement the writers had to meet. A new Black Canary could be one of many reasons:

Creative decision- wanting to maintain        the Green Arrow Black Canary partnership (the reason the writers are pointing to)

Warner Brothers decision- Wanting visibility of the Black Canary character to make her more popular because they plan to use her in the movie verse

Time Warner decision- Merchandise money bitches! :p

DC decision- we have comics to sell bitches! And our Green Arrow comics aren't doing so well. 

CW decision- This is the ratings argument. Dear Males 18-49 look at this hot chick who fights and is hot! Dear females 18-49 we have a strong woman you all can aspire to. She wears leather and fights!

It could be one all or a combination of those reasons but personally in a fifth season show with declining veiwership, decling social media  relevance and I don't see Tina/Black Canary being able to live up to any of those expectations. Especially since there has really be no demand for a new Black Canary and she has yet to inspire much enthusiasm.

I guess she may become more well recieved with time but I'm getting Wild Dog vibes where Wendy Mericele will be the President Treasurer and only member of the Tina Boland fan club.

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Since LL's line about asking Oliver to not let her be the last canary was in the premiere and last year they were still bragging about their stable rantings I imagine the two things are unrelated.

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2 hours ago, Belinea said:

I guess I'd just like to know if those responsible care that the show lost so many viewers and they look into it. Obviously a higher-up requested BC because they consider that to be a reason. But I doubt they lost each and every single one of those viewers because of killing BC. 

There is absolutely no proof of what you're claiming, sorry. Yes someone at TW insisted on a BC but there's nothing that ties it to them killing off LL. 

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S4 demo ratings also stayed at around 1.0 until after 4x15...
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-four-ratings-38484/

But from past EP comments, it sounds like they never took the BMD complaints seriously.

However, if a show is midway through its current season, then maybe it's time to stop blaming low ratings on whatever happened in previous season(s) and time to start thinking that maybe the problem is the current season.

Edited by tv echo
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I think BMD tanked the ratings. I think the egos of the writers room, actors and TPTB do not allow them to see that. And until they are able to see it, I worry about the success of the show. Because BMD was a universally hated plot from all different types of Arrow fanbases. It was unifying in regards that everyone hated, except the writers room and a few others.

I do think they want females fighting in the field with GA, which I appreciate. They had plans for Artemis to go bad, so she was out. TQ or WH for whatever reason does not want to be in the field. FS in the field or mask would be too controversial. If they could get SL back, that would probably be their first choice. But she is lead on another successful show. So BC makes sense, and they need to bring a new person in, hence Tina. I just hope the actress has the skill set to be an action star. Because not only was the chemistry off with KC, her action skill sets were lacking. So fingers crossed the casting dept actually did its job and found a decent actress that can act and perform stunts. After seeing their failed success with the newbies, I have little hope they did - but fingers crossed.

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Arrow's Premiere Just Continued A Recent Trend In The CW's Ratings
Laura Hurley  Jan. 27, 2017
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1617560/arrows-premiere-just-continued-a-recent-trend-in-the-cws-ratings#.WIqGErQ7kwc.twitter

Quote

The Arrow midseason premiere scored only a 0.6 in the valuable 18-49 age demographic on the night and attracted a mere 1.68 million total viewers. Both numbers were drops from the 0.68 rating and 1.94 million viewers from the midseason finale, and those numbers weren't very good to begin with. It seems that the cliffhanger that brought back Laurel Lance was not enough to bring back the entire audience to see what happened next. TV by the Numbers reports that only The CW's Frequency performed worse than Arrow last night across the broadcast grid.

While the 0.6 rating and 1.68 million viewers aren't the very worst numbers that Arrow has ever pulled in, they're particularly notable for the fact that they're lower than the numbers drawn by Legends of Tomorrow the night before. Arrow has usually outperformed the time travel series in both ratings and viewership, but the Legends midseason premiere earned a 0.6 rating and 1.79 million viewers with The Flash as its new lead-in. Things aren't looking great on the Arrow front.

Legends of Tomorrow also experienced a drop for its return to the airwaves in 2017. In fact, all four superhero series on The CW drew lower-than-usual numbers in both demo ratings and viewership in their midseason premiere. We have to wonder now if CW audiences are tiring of superhero action in primetime. Given that Arrow, The Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow all seem to be more connected than ever in the 2016-2017 TV season, it's possible that viewers aren't eager to keep up with all three shows to understand what's happening in one. At the very least, I have to imagine that Arrow fans who don't watch The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow were confused by a lot of what Black Siren had to say in the midseason premiere.

That said, there are plenty of possible reasons for the disappointing ratings trend that don't point to viewers tiring of comic book action on The CW. This week's lower ratings could simply mean that regular viewers didn't actually know that they were premiering. The CW is by far the lowest-rated network on broadcast television, and the superhero shows tend to outperform the rest of the network's programming. Fans of the Flarrow-verse may not watch The CW for anything else and therefore didn't see any advertising to know to tune in this week. Maybe the delayed viewing ratings will be an indication.

Edited by tv echo
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I wonder how many years away the CW is from becoming a strictly streaming service. 15, 10, less?

Edited by BkWurm1

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Interesting perspectives from some Asian media on Arrow's ratings decline...

Arrow News, Rumors And Spoilers: Show Gets Renewal Despite Low Ratings; Cancellation Looms
BY LEO HERNANDEZ / JAN 31, 2017 04:46 AM EST Share with Facebook  Share with Twitter
http://en.koreaportal.com/articles/25976/20170131/arrow-news-rumors-and-spoilers-show-gets-renewal-despite-low-ratings-cancellation-looms.htm

Quote

In was said that Talia, the daughter of Ra's Al Ghul (Malcolm Merlyn) who was played by Lexa Doig, had already made an appearance but in did not pull up the numbers to a satisfactory rate. It has been wondered if the change of character from Matt Nable to Malcolm Merlyn in Season 3 for the role of Ra's Al Ghul was a factor for the series decline. Fans could be more interested in seeing consistency in the show.

'Arrow' is renewed on CW but its rating is disappointing; Mid-season is not doing well
By Joseph Michael / 2017.01.31
http://www.asiastarz.com/articles/22807/20170131/arrow-renewed-cw-rating-disappointing-mid-season-doing-well.htm

Quote

... It looks like the crowd didn't like the fact that Laurel Lance was back from that cliffhanger before the midseason was shown.

Variety reported that Talia (Lexa Doig) finally made an appearance this time, but it still didn't work to pull up its ratings. For those who doesn't know her, she is the daughter of Ra's al Ghul (Malcolm Merlyn). The network has not determined yet what mistake are they doing this time.

However, it is possible that the change of casting might have contributed to it. Like Matt Nable being replaced by Malcolm Merlyn after season 3 for the role of Ra's al Ghul. In this case, the audience might be longing for some consistency.

Edited by tv echo

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8 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

It looks like the midseason premiere was the lowest this season.  The 18-49 demo technically dipped into the mid-0.5's --> 0.56 from http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-tv-show-cw-season-five-ratings/
At what point do you think the ratings might affect the writers' storytelling choices?

Oh interesting! I've been looking for a site that had the unrounded demo numbers. Thanks!

So according to that, Arrow really did come in #5 for last week. It had 0.56, SPN had 0.58, and LoT had 0.62.

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3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Well in fairness most of those comments were posted before it was renewed.

Oh I didn't realize the article was that old. Wait, I just checked, the article says it was published last week. I'm confused.

Edited by Morrigan2575

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They went from the 2nd highest rated program to coming in 5th for Mid Season Premiere week.

That is kind of crazy to me. I know all the shows are down so it's not just a narrative reflection but yikes.

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7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Oh I didn't realize the article was that old

I think it's a page that's updated every week with the new ratings.

Wait.  Are we talking about the tvseriesfinale page, or the articles tv echo posted?

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11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

They went from the 2nd highest rated program to coming in 5th for Mid Season Premiere week.

That is kind of crazy to me. I know all the shows are down so it's not just a narrative reflection but yikes.

I was thinking about that last week. With Supergirl coming on board, it was expected that they would drop to third, but going down to fifth isn't so good.  Granted it's just by a fractional amount, but still.

Edited by Starfish35
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It's just this week though and maybe one other week this season? It's usually 3rd or 4th for the week. Of course that could change, guess we'll see what this week looks like for The cW

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The more it falls, imo the higher the chance TPTB will look for actual reasons it dropped and perhaps make important and actual changes to the show. Personally, if the writing is not good (which it hasn't been for years now), I don't see why it coming in a lower slot would be a bad thing. I want the show to be better, so for me these ratings in light of a pre-existing renewal is a good thing.

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I think the ratings for tomorrow's Arrow will go up. There's no Lethal Weapon and no Blindspot airing this week. Arrow's time slot competition tomorrow night is Hunted (CBS), The Goldbergs (ABC), Law and Order: SVU (NBC), and Showtime at the Apollo (Fox). Plus, I think people will be curious about this new female vigilante with the canary cry.

Edited by tv echo

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They might go up, but I don't think it will be substantial or bring it back to previous ratings of earlier seasons or earlier highs. It will probably just be an average episode. I will say though that the competition is weak Weds night. Only CBS & Fox are airing new content.

Edited by kismet

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7 minutes ago, kismet said:

They might go up, but I don't think it will be substantial or bring it back to previous ratings of earlier seasons or earlier highs. It will probably just be an average episode. I will say though that the competition is weak Weds night. Only CBS & Fox are airing new content.

Yeah I'll be very surprised if it goes up maybe more then 0.65/0.7. Which is still on the low scale.

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1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Yeah I'll be very surprised if it goes up maybe more then 0.65/0.7. Which is still on the low scale.

Those were the numbers for Supergirl. So i am not sure if LOT and Arrow can go that much higher. 

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1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

Those were the numbers for Supergirl. So i am not sure if LOT and Arrow can go that much higher. 

In that case then yeah I'd be shocked if they managed to get more ratings then Supergirl an episode after a series low.

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Here are the un-rounded 18-49 prelims for Monday, January 30:

The Bachelor ................... 2.324 ... (2.358 ... 2.261 ... 2.320 ... 2.357)
Quantico .......................... 0.764 ... (0.904 ... 0.625)

Big Bang Theory-r ........... 1.537
Kevin Can Wait-r ............. 1.195
The Odd Couple .............. 1.091
The Odd Couple .............. 0.927
Scorpion-r ........................ 0.774

Celeb Apprentice ............. 0.954 ... (1.013 ... 0.902 ... 0.913 ... 0.988)
Timeless .......................... 0.858 ... (0.881 ... 0.835)

Gotham ............................ 1.124 ... (1.163 ... 1.084)
Lucifer .............................. 1.239 ... (1.246 ... 1.232)

Supergirl ........................... 0.692 ... (0.704 ... 0.679)
Jane the Virgin .................. 0.297 ... (0.329 ... 0.266)

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25 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

IDK how TBBT keeps getting those numbers... That show is utter trash

 

25 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Also:

And for a repeat ... 

With the world seeming like it's going mad and imploding on its self maybe people are trying to lose themselves in some funny *shrug*

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4 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

With the world seeming like it's going mad and imploding on its self maybe people are trying to lose themselves in some funny *shrug*

IDK the ratings were like this (maybe even better) 3-4 years ago... So I wouldn't really say it's about current affairs.

I just think the show is full of cheap laughs, isn't really well thought out, and the characters are caricatures. I personally don't get it...

Edited by wonderwall

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1 hour ago, tv echo said:

I think the ratings for tomorrow's Arrow will go up. There's no Lethal Weapon and no Blindspot airing this week. Arrow's time slot competition tomorrow night is Hunted (CBS), The Goldbergs (ABC), Law and Order: SVU (NBC), and Showtime at the Apollo (Fox). Plus, I think people will be curious about this new female vigilante with the canary cry.

I remember during S3 episode something they highlighted Laurel doing the Canary Cry for the first time and people wondered if the ratings would see a boost Because Comics! and Black Canary! And ...nothing...lol

I honestly don't think the general audience is really going to care. They haven't seemed too.

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1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

IDK the ratings were like this (maybe even better) 3-4 years ago... So I wouldn't really say it's about current affairs.

I just think the show is full of cheap laughs, isn't really well thought out, and the characters are caricatures. I personally don't get it...

I like it. It doesn't always hit the mark, but when it does it's gold.Plus, IMO, Sheldon Cooper has shown a more consistent emotional growth/development that Oliver Queen ;)

I think the numbers are going to go up for Arrow, too. If folks liked what they saw in the last episode (from word of mouth, seeing GIFs, catching up, etc.) more might check it out. 

Edited by SmallScreenDiva · Reason: Add Arrow comment
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