S03.E08: The Brave And The Bold (2)

[El Seed]

I just didn't understand Barry's horror at seeing Arrow, arrow the guy for information. He knew this was how Oliver/Arrow worked before he saw it and perhaps that was the problem. Barry had never actually seen him work and it was a bit shocking to be right there to witness the torture.

 

 

Well, yeah. Barry was an Arrow fanboy and probably either didn't think or assume that he took extreme meaures, or he didn't really understand those measures until he was a firsthand witness to them. Knowing that torture happens is one thing, actually seeing it happen is another.

 

Totally nitpicking, but he said "A woman that I loved", not "the" woman. Imo there's the difference right there. He loved Sara, but she wasn't "the".

 

 

Yep. People have a great capacity for love, and loving someone doesn't preclude them from loving others. Actually, I think it's a good thing that there's more people that Oliver loves because it keeps him tied to his humanity.

 

I really wouldn't mind it if Lyla replaced Laurel in terms of screen time.

 

 

I can dig this. Can we get some more Nyssa, too?

 

Barry realizing that he couldn't be in five places at once - but didn't need to be. Cue tossing people in front of bombs (this time without impacting their clothing, but I'm going to try to move past that, at least on this forum). Team Arrow and Team Flash saving the city for the win!

 

 

This. This is what I wanted, Show, so thanks for delivering!

 

I didn't like Barry's whole "My mother was murdered in front of me too, but I don't use that as an excuse to torture people that piss me off" line. Yes, what happened to Barry's mother was tragic as was the fact that he witnessed it..... that's basically it. That's all the trauma Barry has. We've seen the hell Oliver went through over the past 8 years, both on and off the island. So that line of Barry's might have had weight if I was only a fan of The Flash, but as it was I just felt that Barry didn't know what he was talking about comparing his personal tragedies with Oliver's.

 

 

Barry's father was also wrongfully imprisoned for his wife's murder, and Barry was raised by the guy who basically put his dad in jail. Barry may not have the same scope of tragedy that Oliver has, but I don't think it delegitimizes Barry's trauma or make his point moot. Oliver's trauma doesn't make Barry's trauma rainbow kisses and unicorn stickers.

 

ETA: Actionmage goes into further depth with what I was trying to say in my last point, 5 posts down from mine.

Edited December 4, 2014 by El Seed

[90 Day Pinochet]

I am pretty sure though that I recognized the Argus set from earlier in The Flash (I think it was a mall or a museum?) but it looked great and had a wonderful expansive feel to it. 

 

 

Wow, it would have never occurred to me if you didn't mention it but I have an impressionistic sense that you are right. I think it might be the location where Barry fought Multiplex.

Edited December 4, 2014 by 90 Day Pinochet

[opus]

As Ollie compares Starling to Central for Barry, Batman laughs at both of them.

[Betweenthisandthat]

I read this elsewhere and I believe it: the flash has a more positive effect on the Arrow than the Arrow has on the Flash.  That's not to say Oliver doesn't have his qualities, but he can sink so far into his own darkness that I almost wonder if the Oliver we get this season isn't any worse in some ways than the guy he was before the island.  He's a hero now and isn't self-absorbed in the same way as he used to be.  The old Oliver seemed to have some since of joy.  He was awful but he had something that people around him loved and he didn't reject them.  The pre-island Oliver and the post-island Oliver have to meet in the middle or something.

 

That's what I was thinking during this episode.  Barry and his team have some growing up to do, but I like their vibe.  I like Cisco. If only we'd see Team Arrow have more fun and look like they enjoyed what they do like they used to.  

 

Nice to see Diggle and Lyla!

[foreverevolving]

Is it me or does the building looks different than from the past? (and i don't mean the name thing)

 

Other than the above the entire thing is awesome, but this one:

[Actionmage]

Really enjoyed the scope of the locations they used.

 

I was sad when the nice Craftman-looking house got lit up. I love that style.

 

That's all the trauma Barry has.

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

Barry's mother was not only killed in front of him, but the killer laid hands on him, framed/ allowed the police to railroad his father for the deed, facing kids that taunted Barry about his dad killing his mom, no doubt as he was growing up, and finally having his father have Barry kept away from him- to keep Barry from seeing Henry in prison because it was hard for Henry. (Not that I don't get Henry's choice, just stating that it had to be devastating to Barry at eleven  or so to have that happen. Especially in the way that Henry and Det. West decided to carry out the plan.) Also being treated as a liar when he told the truth. 

At least Oliver has had a measure of closure about Moira's death, something Barry hasn't been able to achieve.

 

It isn't Oliver's five years of hell, but to dismiss Barry's trauma as not as horrible is to imply that there is a binary that just isn't there, imo.  Barry's trauma is one end of what you are implying and Oliver the other. Seeming to miss the point that both men are traumatized. As we found out in the episode, Oliver was taught how to torture, in a situation where he had no agency. Do what Waller said or be killed ( the world-won't-miss-a-dead-man threat). Again, trauma Barry did not experience, but it isn't a trauma off.

 

eta: Or what El Seed said.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Actionmage

[benteen]

Well, yeah. Barry was an Arrow fanboy and probably either didn't think or assume that he took extreme meaures, or he didn't really understand those measures until he was a firsthand witness to them. Knowing that torture happens is one thing, actually seeing it happen is another.

 

 

Yep. People have a great capacity for love, and loving someone doesn't preclude them from loving others. Actually, I think it's a good thing that there's more people that Oliver loves because it keeps him tied to his humanity.

 

 

I can dig this. Can we get some more Nyssa, too?

 

 

This. This is what I wanted, Show, so thanks for delivering!

 

 

Barry's father was also wrongfully imprisoned for his wife's murder, and Barry was raised by the guy who basically put his dad in jail. Barry may not have the same scope of tragedy that Oliver has, but I don't think it delegitimizes Barry's trauma or make his point moot. Oliver's trauma doesn't make Barry's trauma rainbow kisses and unicorn stickers.

 

Though he did know Oliver used to kill people.  That could make his problem with torture come across as hypocritical.

[TwistedandBored]

I really loved this episode.

 

It might lead to future continuity problems though. For example like if Starling City is ever in a major danger and Flash does not come over to help them then it is a problem. Last season finale and the one before was okay cause one Barry was normal and the other he was in a coma. 

 

Anyways, I really loved the episode. Cisco trying to take a picture of both Flash and Arrow standing together is soo me. I also loved Felicity using Arrow bombs and Caitlin trying to safe Lyla even though Layla was awesome trying to protect these two and herself. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Totally nitpicking, but he said "A woman that I loved", not "the" woman. Imo there's the difference right there. He loved Sara, but she wasn't "the".

 

Not a nitpick, the article does totally change the sentence. My mom actually called in somewhat of a panic over it, HAHAHA! So I pointed out that it was "a" and not "the." Also, he said loved, not in love, so could be taken as not in a romantic sense. And I think Oliver did love Sara. As he still loves Laurel. He has/had histories with these women.

[TwistedandBored]

Captain Boomerang was really a cool villain even if he didn't have a lot to do. The actor that played him was charismatic and it made me want this character back in future episodes. 

 

LMAO!

 

 

[SmallScreenDiva]

And since it will all go to hell in 3x09 a little bit of cuteness:

 

 

 

Can I ask which Tumblr blog this came from? Because I totally want to reblog it.

 

I loved their interactions again tonight. The looks they shared toward the end of the ep when Felicity mentioned the landmines (Oliver was totally remembering their Tarzan/Jane moment) and when Cisco said Felicity made him keep the hood because of sentimental value are just so sweet.

 

Everyone's already pointed all the good/great stuff in this ep, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Sometimes the second part of two-parters lag a bit; this one didn't. Loved it!

Edited December 4, 2014 by SmallScreenDiva

[El Seed]

Though he did know Oliver used to kill people. That could make his problem with torture come across as hypocritical.

 

 

I think it goes along with the "being a fanboy" thing; denying or being unable to see problems with something you like, or justifying them. Oliver's body count certainly has decreased since season 1, so maybe he thought Oliver's methods weren't as extreme as they used to be. Actually seeing Oliver in action really took the blinders off, as Barry seemed to be a bit naive as to how Oliver operates.

[catrox14]

Man, seeing Nick Tarabay just makes me want to watch Spartacus again, And I'm even more annoyed that he's not Ra's al Ghul. :(. Tarabay has so much screen presence. 

 

Fun episode. I love the Diggyla. They are so cute together.  I think Barry helped Oliver think more about being Oliver and that makes me think Oliver is going to attempt a relationship with Felicity afterall. 

 

On that not so plus side. I'm irrationally annoyed that Barry has a storage unit for his suit but Oliver doesn't get that favor returned in Central City.  I honestly felt like this was an extended Flash episode more than an even crossover.

[BkWurm1]

 

Wow, it would have never occurred to me if you didn't mention it but I have an impressionistic sense that you are right. I think it might be the location where Barry fought Multiplex.

Yes, I think you could be right.  I'd have to go back through the episodes to be absolutely certain.  

 

I don't mean it as a complaint (though I did complain when they swapped out the Central City Jitters for some random Starling City coffee place and didn't even move the tables around)  I think both shows benefit from being able to share locations.  Stretch that dollar anyway you can. 

 

It might lead to future continuity problems though. For example like if Starling City is ever in a major danger and Flash does not come over to help them then it is a problem. Last season finale and the one before was okay cause one Barry was normal and the other he was in a coma

 

One, they have to call him in order to come help and two, I'm sure The Flash will be up to his neck in problems of his own when the time comes, like every time Starling has it's major Spring crisis.  (May is a real good time to go on vacation if you are a Starling City resident) 

[theschnauzers]

This was one of the best crossovers I've ever seen on television. With these two shows, and these two casts, the concepts worked far better than we could have hoped for, and shows that GB and crew know what they are doing with both shows. What I loved about this one is how both Barry and Oliver taught each other something or two -- making them equals, and not a mentor-pupil relationship.

Don't want the deal to be worn out, but I'm looking forward to the next one when they get around to it.

 

ETA: Nick Tarabay (tonight's villian de jour) is the fourth cast member from Spartacus to be cast in the Arrow/Flash universe, not to mention that Stephen Amell was the other finalist to take over the role of Spartacus.

Edited December 4, 2014 by theschnauzers

[wonderwall]

Can I ask which Tumblr blog this came from? Because I totally want to reblog it.

http://alydias.co.vu/post/104292420750/so-married

 

There you go!

[KenyaJ]

I'm exhausted, but I have to chime in and say how much I loved this episode. I said earlier in a different thread that I'd be perfectly content with Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity permanently teaming up with The Flash crew, but tonight made me realize how great Roy fits into Team Flarrow. I loved him tonight, on top of all the Oliver/Barry, Dyla, Cisco, Married Olicity goodness. 

 

By far my favorite episode of this season. It's not even close.

[Lady Calypso]

I totally don't mind Barry calling Oliver out on him torturing the guy for information. Like it's been said above, hearing about his misdeeds is different than seeing them up close. It also gives Barry/Iris a parallel in a way. They both had similar dialogue, with Iris seeing the danger The Flash could be, and Barry seeing The Arrow torturing. It actually would make sense, given Iris just dumped The Flash after believing in him, and Barry not torturing or killing people like Oliver/The Arrow has. I guess I can just accept Barry calling out Oliver because they really are on different ends of the hero spectrum. 

 

I really did like the episode overall. I really did love how everyone was involved (oops, sorry Laurel!), even Quentin in a way. Nobody was useless and everyone did something important. I loved the three women in the Arrowcave and how they all contributed. Well, Lyla fought Captain Boomerang, and Felicity helped distract him while Caitlin saved Lyla's life. That's how women can be useful in these situations! 

 

Roy was great with Cisco; I think Roy needs friends who are more his age and can relate to him. I really loved the different relationships presented this episode, and having Barry's identity revealed by himself to Lyla was hilarious. I really like when Cisco 'fixes' the suits. 

 

Laurel wasn't actually grating to me, this episode. I didn't mind the Laurel/Oliver exchange. It seemed, for once, that it was a friend teasing another friend. Seriously though, small amounts of Laurel work for me. No Laurel works best, but I'll take what I can get anyway. 

 

Oliver/Barry's brotherly relationship was on point. Barry being Oliver's guru or whatever worked well and seeing Oliver smile was great. Speaking of, Olicity was more on point as well this week than they have been since the first episode this season. I felt like they were back to their cute marriage banters and we got to see another Oliver smile! If Lyla/Diggle are assumed to be married constantly, then Olicity is right behind them. Speaking of, I knew Diggle would propose to Lyla. It was so super cute and I love them together.Also, the Captain was fun, the locations were perfectly picked and even the Hong Kong flashbacks were excellent, and I love how the flashbacks tied in with the present day story. Most of the time, they don't hit that mark but this time they did.

 

All in all, great crossover episode. I love The Flash, and I love Arrow and both work surprisingly well together. 

[NumberCruncher]

Such a great episode--I almost wondered if I was actually watching a S2A episode of Arrow. It made me realize how much I missed the old dynamic when everything wasn't so somber and storylines made sense. Can we please have Berlanti and Kreisberg back from The Flash now? I miss them and this episode is a prime example why.

Diggle and Lyla completely stole this episode for me. Between all of the not married jokes, "Sweetie" teasing, and the heartfelt proposal at the end I had a huge smile on my face while watching their scenes. This is how a healthy relationship works, Oliver. Please take notes.

Runner-up for episode awesomeness was Lyla, Caitlin, and Felicity being badass with Capt. Boomerang in the lair. It only made me realize that I desperately need more amazing female bonding between women who haven't slept with Oliver on the show. I echo others who have mentioned how nice it would be to have more Lyla screentime--especially if it provided opportunities for more Felicity/Lyla interaction. I think a friendship between the two of them could be quite interesting. Sadly, I doubt that will happen since it's such a male-dominated show and they would clearly rather waste time awkwardly shoehorning Laurel into the team and ignoring Thea.

I'm glad that they addressed the elephant in the room re: Oliver being screwed up emotionally. Barry calling him out on it was much-needed, IMO. While I don't think that Barry's trauma even comes close to the shit that Oliver has gone through, I do think that Oliver goes overboard wallowing in his manpain and needed someone to bitchslap him across the face with it.

Anyway, I hope they do more crossovers in the future, even if the full teams aren't involved because I think both teams learn from each other when they're together.

[thuganomics85]

Easily one of the, if not the best episode of this season.  Only issue I did have was that I thought the writers went overboard at times with Barry, and made him more obnoxious then he is on his actual show.  I don't think they quite have a handle on him like The Flash folks do.  Also, I had problems buying that Barry would be that stunned over Ollie's torture-happy ways.  I was good with him being against, but some of the shock was a bit much.

 

Still, I really do like how they've formed the Ollie/Barry relationship, and how both bring something to the table.  Ollie does give Barry a dose of reality at times and is right that sometimes you can't just charm your way through everything, but Barry also proves that Ollie can't always just mope around, and automatically take the violent route.  And, even when they are at each others' throats, I really get the sense they respect each other.  Yeah, Barry is more obvious about it (really get a younger sibling, looking up to his older bro vibe), but Ollie does show in his own ways, that he cares about Barry too.  I like it.  Stephen Amell and Grant Gustin really do work well together.  It's good when things work out like that.

 

No surprise, Nick Tarabey owned it as Boomerang.  Even the cheesy one-liners were tolerable because of him.  He totally was badass and charismatic as hell, and made him one of the best "bad guys of the week", IMO.  Love that he's now locked up in Ollie's prison, with Slade.  Hopefully, they'll get along better then Crixus and Ashur did during Spartacus.

 

Team Flash integrated with Team Arrow well.  Liked seeing more Felicity/Caitlin, and seeing Diggle interact more with Cisco.  And, Roy was fun.  I liked of loved how baffled he was over some of what was going on, but seem to generally like them.  And, I really liked the bar scene, and how Cisco/Caitlin acknowledge that they are still new and immature about this, compared to Team Arrow.  I do think they might be right that the metahumans being so larger then life, makes it feel more fun for them, and they are tending to avoid the darkness Team Arrow has to deal with.  Plus, they haven't suffered any losses yet.  And, I also think it helps that they have full support from people like Joe and Wells, while Team Arrow is mainly on their own, with the exception of Quentin, who still doesn't know the full story; and, well, Laurel.  Overall, I thought it was a nice scene.

 

The resolution to the bomb scenario was silly, but fun.  Although, it seems like Barry worked on that friction issue from last night, since no one's shirt caught on fire this time.

 

Glad we got a bit more of Lyla, and her relationship with Diggle.  And, even though Boomerang did come out ahead, I liked that Lyla/Felicity/Caitlin managed to hold him off for as long as they did.  Although, now that they are getting hitched again, I don't know if I should worry that something bad will happen.

 

Not a huge fan of the flashbacks, except suspecting that Waller was totally behind the bombings, or was more involved then she let on.

 

Yeah, we really need more "Ollie and Felicity bicker over how she made Arrow Cave a thing" scenes, instead of angsty "Ollie pushes Felicty into the arms of 50 Shades of Ray" ones, please.  Now, that was refreshing.

 

While I did prefer yesterday's episode, I don't have many complaints here.  Hope they do it again.

Edited December 4, 2014 by thuganomics85

[KirkB]

Captain Boomerang shouldn't work. He was a goofy character in the comics and usually a joke to the Flash, but the actor invested him with an intensity and menace. He had a presence, and I would like to see more of him after he and Slade finish their Great Australian Escape.

Am I mistaken, or did Cisco and Caitlin come all the way to Starling because of the DNA evidence Felicity gave them, only nothing more came of it? In other words, did they come with news which they told Felicity and not us, or was that just an excuse, they didn't even have anything and just wanted to meet Oliver?

[apinknightmare]

Captain Boomerang shouldn't work. He was a goofy character in the comics and usually a joke to the Flash, but the actor invested him with an intensity and menace. He had a presence, and I would like to see more of him after he and Slade finish their Great Australian Escape.

Am I mistaken, or did Cisco and Caitlin come all the way to Starling because of the DNA evidence Felicity gave them, only nothing more came of it? In other words, did they come with news which they told Felicity and not us, or was that just an excuse, they didn't even have anything and just wanted to meet Oliver?

 

I think they came to get the DNA evidence, didn't they? I thought Felicity mentioned that she was going to mail it or something?

 

Because Caitlin looked at it while she was there and couldn't isolate some of the DNA and then said she'd call Felicity from CC when she had some results. 

[Xantar]

Barry doing the salmon ladder was a hilarious visual, but come on! He's supposed to have super speed, not super strength. Yes, being able to move that fast does imply a huge amount of explosive energy, but he himself has said a couple times that he's not that strong. Plus, can't we have just one thing Oliver can do that Barry can't?

 

Also, I get that they wanted to leave the ending inconclusive, but given that they cut away with Barry about an eye blink away from Oliver, I really wonder what great strategy Oliver had. Presumably he knew that just standing there and firing arrows wasn't going to work. And he probably could predict that Barry's response would be to catch the arrows and then charge directly at him. So what's Oliver's next move supposed to be? Oh the fan fiction possibilities...

[Lantern7]

Good episode, even if Barry came off as a hyperactive puppy. That's supposed to be Cisco's job.

 

Anybody else a little disappointed that Digger (*snicker*) wasn't Australian? Maybe it's compensation for Ra's Al Ghul apparently being Aussie.

 

Anybody else boo when Laurel came on screen? I don't want to be out of practice. She didn't outright stink, so that's something new.

 

Seriously, the crossover was better than it should have been. Here's hoping the Batman/Superman team was watching the episodes and taking notes.

[Password]

This episode was just wonderful. I loved everything about it. Oliver makes me want to hug him then slap him one after the other but I am SO glad Barry said Oliver has light inside him. I don't think it really got through to him when Sara dumped him. It's just so wonderful that Barry, ultimate Arrow fanboy, was able to uplift his hero when Oliver wanted to take the world's problems on his shoulders. And because this show is wonderfully subtle, Felicity aka wifey strolls right in.

Gosh I just loved the parallel between China and Oliver present day, at first hesitating in the past resulting in bomb detonation, and in the present going full throttle but ish STILL happening. Then hesitating in the present (hello humanity) and going full speed in the past.

Also I'm super glad Barry told Oliver he's full of nonsense with holding onto his past. Yes, he had a horrifying past, but Oliver you have to let it go to live. (And you know if he was in therapy he would've learned this in the first of 3 to 400 sessions). And no, I don't imagine the quantity of Oliver's misery can be compared to Barry Allen's but what he said remains true. I really think this is the beginning of beautiful things for Oliver. I have just been in love with this tortured soldier these two cross over episodes.

I didn't have a problem with the whole loved Sara thing because he did. Perhaps not in love, but love nonetheless. So I skipped "Guilty" and Laurel and Oliver's comfort with one another was interesting. Keep it that way show.

Soooooo wonderful was Lyla, Felicity and Caitlin. Just throw them in a room together to talk about wonderful woman things and forget the action (which was great) and I'll be handing out standing ovations. But even more than that was the boys connecting, and then everyone coming together at the end with far better acceptance and understanding of each other. I just adore the xontrast of light and dark for team Arrow and Flash. Why was Barry so relaxed, chowing sushi in the foundry?! Boy!

Oliver and Felicity, no but seriously when did they get married? WHEN??? I missed the damn wedding because these two are adorable. From the distracting Sally, to Oliver pointing at her for the Arrow cave name and her pouting, to Oliver's beaming smile when he heard she wanted the hood on his new suit. Can everyone just sigh with me real quick? Sigh. When Oliver smiles, I smile. Big time.

Oh my word when Lyla and Oliver were repeating Amanda's mantra I was thinking "BRAINWASHED".

Just absolutely adored pretty much everything. I actually really thought Barry would mention something about "getting the girl" but I'm glad he didn't. Baby steps, Oliver will get there.

And yes!!! Step up to the plate again Diggle! You marry that wonderful gun yielding woman. OK first of all, Lyla needs to go to the firing range because she was spraying bullets all over the foundry. Where was she shooting?! I got really scared when she was hit. Really worried.

Beautiful.

[Racj82]

51/seconds if my friends info is correct. She was also completely pointless that scene was about getting info from Quentin.

I'd also like to point out that these idiots apparently don't know how to lock a door. FFS! Everyone can just walk in.

man, the hate for laurel is just too over the top for me. Literally counting the seconds she's on screen? Come on.

[calliope1975]

Man, seeing Nick Tarabay just makes me want to watch Spartacus again, And I'm even more annoyed that he's not Ra's al Ghul. :(. Tarabay has so much screen presence. 

 

Ra's better be amazing or I'm going to be so irritated at this miscast. Nick was great tonight and almost made me not hate him on sight because of Ashur. Almost. I couldn't even be mad at his motivation. It's probably not the smartest move to put bombs in criminals heads, ARGUS, and not expect that to piss them off. 

 

I loved this episode (and last night's) so much. it was such a great use of everyone's skills. I like how both casts blended especially when they were separated with Roy, Mr. Diggle, and Cisco in the van and the ladies (mostly Lyla) kicking ass back in the Arrow Cave. Cisco should annoy me, but he's really grown on me. And of course, Oliver and Barry having a nice light/dark relationship that balances out. 

 

Having Laurel show up for 2 minutes was unnecessary and just showed how that character isn't needed. I think her mentioning the Arrow in Century City was supposed to be teasing or something but just came off as a bit bitchy to me. I'm biased though. 

[madhacker]

 

Roy was great with Cisco; I think Roy needs friends who are more his age and can relate to him. I really loved the different relationships presented this episode, and having Barry's identity revealed by himself to Lyla was hilarious. I really like when Cisco 'fixes' the suits.

 

 

not only do I agree with this, I seriously want a Flash episode with Roy visiting Central City and having a Arsenal/Flash team-up. If nothing else just have Cisco do some upgrades to his costume.

 

I had high hopes for this crossover and they were far surpassed for me. They not only did a great crossover but they laid the foundations for future crossovers. I fully expect to see Felicity Cisco and Caitlin keeping tabs on each others teams (wouldn't that make a great online web series?) .

Edited December 4, 2014 by madhacker

[wingster55]

Some notes (too tired to comment on everything) 

I don't think that naming the villains is a sign that they don't take anything seriously. 

Based on..well little more than social media and some SDCC stuff between the actors, I wanted Barry and Thea to meet. 

Emily...really isn't good at drama. At all

Panabaker's delivery still seems stilted. 

Flash totally won. 

[apinknightmare]

 

I don't think that naming the villains is a sign that they don't take anything seriously. 

 

No, but I think the little game that they make out of finding a name for each one is a sign that they're not taking it as seriously as they should. Cisco was right - there's a certain level of whimsy (for lack of a better word) that comes with superpowers. The stakes aren't as high for them because Barry heals faster - he could probably take a substantial blow and still walk away even if he broke a lot of his body. The laws of the natural world don't apply to the villains they're fighting or to the person who's fighting them, so it's easy to forget sometimes that real things and real lives are at stake with what they do. 

 

That's not to say Barry should lose his lightness or they shouldn't have fun, but a little bit of gravity wouldn't hurt them. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Delphi]

What I would give to have these shows air back to back abd have every week a mini movie. That would be the most fantastic thing ever.

Loved Caitlin in this episode even though I usually don't.

I think this was better than the Flash but I don't watch the flash as religiously and that may play a part.

I really want the nerds...er science team members to have more scenes together.

This whole episode felt lighter but also dramatic. I really wish they could pull this balance every week. Ollie and felicity trading jokes. Random snark. Life is serious, but this episode allowed that balance between life sucks but let's get by and joke and love our friends. I'll definitely miss it next week.

[slayer2]

Awww that was wonderful. It reminded me so much of Smallville's Justice episode. I think Oliver smiled more times in that episode than the entire season. His relationship with Barry is just adorkable. He has a little brother now The Flash makes everything better and honestly both casts melded together seemlessly.. Awww *feels*

Edited December 4, 2014 by slayer2

[twoods]

Great episode. Can they have crossover episodes every 2-3 episodes? It's just amazing what team Flash and team Arrow can accomplish together, and Oliver and Barry's fight scenes with each other and the bad guys continue to be awesome.

It was nice to see Roy smile for a change, and would love to see him in Central City hanging out with Cisco.

Oliver and Felicity weren't so angsty, which was nice. And the actor that played Digger was great and would have been amazing as Ra's.

[Pothunter]

The cast and crew did a great job with both episodes, especially considering that the main players were all overworked, and possibly sleep-deprived, working on 2 episodes in the same time frame. 

[VCRTracking]

I love that they're using the crossover to have the two heroes learn from each other.

 

I really thought Lyla was dead for a moment.

 

"Screw you Captain Boomerang!"

 

The "Rocky III" style ending was great.

[SleepDeprived]

Well, now. Job well done Arrow and Flash cast and crew! Both crossover episodes were solid hours of television that greatly entertained.

 

That was a really freaking great episode of Arrow! I loved it so much. This is totally one that I'll happily rewatch over and over. Although does this episode being set one week after yesterday's Flash mean the writers are definitely not sticking to real time so much anymore? Are we going to experience some time jumps down the line or was this just a special crossover event thing?

 

I think pretty much everything has been said about all the awesomeness that happened in the episode. My favorite parts were the beautiful teamwork and interactions happening all over the place (Diggle/Roy/Oliver, Barry/Oliver, Barry/Oliver/Roy/Diggle, Felicity/Caitlin/Cisco, Cisco/Diggle/Roy, Lyla/Caitlin/Felicity), especially, the finale with everyone disarming the bombs while Oliver made sure Captain Boomerang couldn't get away. I wish all the episodes were like this with the great balance of comedy, action, and drama.

 

And, yeah, I hope Ra's will be great next week but after Nick Tarabay's stint as Captain Boomerang here (plus Manu's Slade and Barrowman's Merlyn big bad stints), the guy playing Ra's will have to bring some serious gravitas and acting skills to make me not think he was miscast in the role.

[Minneapple]

Loved:

Roy's double-take at the Flash's first appearance

Caitlin and Cisco calling him "Mr. Diggle."

Ollie, fake smile: Barry, you live in Central City, where it's sunny all the time.

I just love the contrast between the shows -- the sunny, earnest Flash and the dark, angsty Arrow.

It's entirely possible Stephen Amell has more chemistry with Grant Gustin than he's had with any of his love interests on the show. Both actors looked like they were really enjoying themselves in both episodes.

The entire crossover event was so well done. Good work, shows.

[looptab]

Gotta love how they just keep spare mannequins and cases in the foundry, just in case :)

Also, Roy and Felicity just hanging out, casually dropping they had a rough night, and Thea doesn't even question it, cause..why not? LOL

[Ariah]

Loved it!

 

Some bits I liked the most:

- "Speedy" misunderstanding -> Roy? No, Barry. (But I thought of Thea first)

- Keeping the hood. I just hope Oliver's new suit does not get torn in the next episode...

- Thea's first cameo. That DJ needs to have his nose broken by Roy. Or Oliver. Or Thea herself.

- Felicity using the exploding arrow to ward off Boomerang. Smooth and cool under extreme circumstances.

- Cisco trying the Salmon Ladder. He did pull up higher than I would.

- Oliver growing up and settling into his less-brooding self. But still not refraining from shoting that final arrow into Boomerang's hand.

 

Dear writers, the numbers came back and the crossover was a hit. Keep in mind that was also because the writing and characters felt good, not only because you've mixed the teams and had the boys fight it out. The characters in these two episode felt more rounded and real (maybe it's because you've sidelined the characters that work less? Maybe.)

Learn from this. Use this strength. Write the rest of the 3B season this way.

You have repleted the credit I gave you, do not mess this up!

[Trini]

As Ollie compares Starling to Central for Barry, Batman laughs at both of them.

Ha! Even before all the costumed freaks surface, Gotham City (on Gotham) is the worst.

 

 

3. The Captain Boomerang versus Caitlin, Felicity and Lyla fight.  (This is not in the awesome things list because of how easily Boomerang got into the Arrow Cave.)

They're going to fix that, right? The "security" of the Arrow lair is laughable now. I feel like they could be building up to a location change. I hope.

[LeeshY]

 

I really wouldn't mind it if Lyla replaced Laurel in terms of screen time.

 

OMG, yes. Brilliant solution.

 

 

Are they talking about the Arrow Cave? That place is about as secure as a Starbucks bathroom.

 

<giggle> That lair/cave is a true case of suspend all logic and reality. Was thinking back to when Felicity's mother was visiting, and how they came through the club on their way to the lair. But then also remembered earlier this season Thea trying to get into a door which had a keypad and complaining she could never get it open. Either way, it's a cast of thousands trooping in and out of that place, the idea that no one notices is absurd. And that's hilarious.

 

Completely agree with the general sentiment here, this was a really fun episode. I'm not yet a Barry fan but he was much much more tolerable here, especially when he started off as preachy on the torture thing, but after Lyla got taken down, shut up pretty quick when he realized there was some truth to what Oliver was saying and let him get on with it. 

 

And I know it's a small thing, but when Cisco improved Olivers suit, commenting on the sentimental value of the hood raised by Felicity, and the look Oliver gives her and her modest head turn - yeah I'm not a fan of those two together but great acting on all parts, it was a really sweet scene.

 

As an aside, I'm sure The Flash will get picked up for another season, but these crossover episodes makes for easy character continuation in case it doesn't. Just as the League of Assassin folks pop in and out, Barry, Caitlin and Cisco can as well for a few episodes scattered throughout the season. Barry even has a uniform 'hotdesk' for his visits now, which, awww.  There is just so much chemistry between the two teams.

 

Oh, and I think they've replaced Oliver going shirtless with Oliver smiling. It's like his smile is his bare chest's secret identity and one cannot be seen the same time as the other. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by LeeshY

[Morrigan2575]

man, the hate for laurel is just too over the top for me. Literally counting the seconds she's on screen? Come on.

Not just Laurel, all of the regulars. Some people find tracking that information interesting. I only reported the Laurel information because it was readily available on first watch, since it was so short. Edited December 4, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[fantique]

Just came here to gush about how much I LOVED this episode and the whole crossover. It was cleverly done and highlighted everything I love about the show and its characters. That was so freaking needed. Now, THAT's more like it. Not much to say that hasn't already been said. This literally warmed my heart and made me ridiculously happy. 

 

And since it will all go to hell in 3x09 a little bit of cuteness:

 

 

This made me think of Felicity as the overindulgent mother who caved in and gave the kids too much sugar and Oliver being all "you can't succumb to their cuteness!" and succumb to her cuteness in turn. Cisco and Caitlin coming just to see the lair was perfect for me because I find it a natural reason to do so and I would've done the same. I just had a smile on my face that wouldn't leave. I also love that their little excursion was "unauthorised" by Principal Wells.

Edited December 4, 2014 by fantique

[Chicago Redshirt]

Anyone who follows the Simmons AF recapper know if they are going to do a similar recap for the first part of the cross-over?

[Ariah]

Oh, one more little thing I loved:

 

Cisco making eyes at Thea and Roy/Felicity explaining to him why she's off limits.

Cute.

[Shanna]

Another thing that bothered me about Barry piping in all "my mother was murdered too" is that as far as he knows she wasn't murdered because of anything he did. Oliver has layers and layers of guilt and PTSD that Barry just can't possibly get right now.

It isn't Oliver's five years of hell, but to dismiss Barry's trauma as not as horrible is to imply that there is a binary that just isn't there, imo. Barry's trauma is one end of what you are implying and Oliver the other. Seeming to miss the point that both men are traumatized. d.[/i]

I definitely get that Barry has trauma, but the way he jumped on Oliver all "me too" I felt minimized Oliver's stuff. I liked his main point, I just hated the way he went about making it. If he had said it more in a sharing his pain kind of mode instead of same here but you need to get over that maybe I would have liked it better.

Also the "hey, they both had murdered parents (because Barry in a way Olivers father was murdered too when the ship went down, and holy shit that was almost as traumatic as Moira and also has the guilt factor now that I think about it), just made me think Damn Comics. Why do all these comic book people have to have murdered parents?

Don't get me wrong, I adored this episode. And I thought Barry was in character but that note bugged.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Shanna

[Genki]

Only 1 complaint about the episode...When Caitlin ask how often Oliver uses the salmon ladder, and Felicity's reply was "every Wednesday"...I'm like "why I haven't seen it for the past 9 Wednesdays!!"

[tv echo]

I really loved the symmetry of the Flash and Arrow crossover episodes.  Oliver and Barry each had a positive, though opposite, effect on each other. 

-- Oliver convinced Barry to think, plan and prepare before zooming into action.  He called Barry out on not taking his hero role seriously enough, in essence, for treating it like a fun game.  This advice could save Barry's life in the future. 
-- Barry convinced Oliver that he has not lost all of his humanity and that it is Oliver Queen, not the Arrow, who can inspire.  He called Oliver out on taking himself too seriously, in essence, being a douche and wallowing in self-pity.  This advice could save Oliver's soul in the future.

 

Both heroes can be a bit of a jerk.  Granted that Barry was whammied when he was being his jerkiest, but his using his superspeed to do the salmon ladder was a jerk move and when he acts so smug about his superspeed, I just want to slap him down.  Oliver can be a jerk about a lot of things, as discussed previously. 

 

Another nice bit of symmetry.  On The Flash, the Arrow first entered the episode by his unannounced entry into the opening fight sequence, saving the Flash's life.  On Arrow, the Flash first entered the episode by his unannounced entry into the opening fight sequence, saving the Arrow's life.

 

Agreeing with Lord Kira - even though both their moms were murdered, Barry didn't spend five years in life-threatening situations, under constant stress, being tortured, and then learning to fight, kill and torture others in order to survive in foreign environments, surrounded by bad guys.  Barry also didn't lose both his parents - his dad is in prison, but alive.  Barry also didn't lose his best friend and a woman he loved.  But the biggest difference is that Barry's trauma was due to things happening to people he loves (his parents) while Oliver's trauma was due not just to things happening to people he loves but also to himself personally (he was tortured and forced to fight, he had to torture and kill other people, his life was in constant danger, he was cut off and alone).  It's like if you had two people who both lost loved ones, but one went to war while the other stayed home.  Both men had trauma, but Oliver's was worse (in my opinion).  So Barry was wrong to dismiss Oliver's pain so lightly.  However, Barry was totally right that Oliver has to move past his pain and concentrate on the present.

 

Oliver referred to Sara as "a woman I loved" to Barry.  So he loved Sara.  I assume he still loves Laurel as a friend at least.  He loves Thea as a sibling.  He probably loves Diggle and cares for Roy.  And we know he's in love with Felicity (at least for this season).  For someone who thought he had lost his humanity, he sure loves a lot of people - which makes his self-sacrificing, martyr complex even more BS.

 

Barry in costume as the Flash is just as recognizable as Oliver in costume as the Arrow - but I guess that's just one of the things you have to handwave on a superhero show.  I noticed Diggle is still not in costume out in the field.  Even though Roy, Oliver and Barry all wear masks, Diggle had no mask when they confronted those Bratva bad guys.  But at least Diggle got more than two lines of dialogue in this episode.

 

As Bkwurm1 noted, the Hong Kong flashbacks seemed unnecessary and could easily have been omitted.  I guess the point of them was to show how Oliver learned his brutal interrogation techniques, but these flashbacks likely just confused Flash viewers who were watching Arrow for the first time.  The brief Quentin and Laurel scene was also pointless and just seemed like an obligatory appearance by these two characters, so that the EPs could say that, yes, they did appear in the crossover episode.  Although the brief shot of Thea being startled by the Flash zooming by was also unnecessary, at least it was a fun shot.  And Thea's appearance in Verdant made sense.

 

It was interesting that, on the issue of how ruthless can you be to get results, Oliver and Lyla are one one side, while Barry and Diggle are on the other side.  It's an understandable divide, but what's interesting is that I still don't know which side I agree with.  (It's the 24/Jack Bauer conundrum.)

 

I wish we got a better look at the new Arrow suit.  I liked that Felicity knew that Oliver had a sentimental attachment to the hood.  I also like the look and "what"(?) that Oliver gave Felicity after she made her comment about how the island prison had minefields.  Oliver smiled more and seemed much happier in these two crossover episodes than he has all season (except for the first half of the "The Calm" episode).

 

Questions:
-- If the Arrowcave can so easily be penetrated by their enemies like Deathstroke and Boomerang, then why can't Thea get past the locked door to the basement of a building that she now owns?  Surely she can get someone to bypass that computer-coded lock.
-- If ARGUS now knows about the Flash, wouldn't Waller want to try to commandeer Barry for her own purposes?  If she's ruthless enough to destroy Starling City and kill millions of people, then she should be ruthless enough to kidnap Barry.
-- Now that Diggle and Lyla are engaged, does that mean Lyla is doomed and that Diggle will end up a single father by season's end?

 

The preview for next week's episode was totally shades of Batman Begins...

Edited December 4, 2014 by tv echo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I haven't watched The Flash so I'm glad that it was easy to figure out what had happened since the last time i saw Barry (and Felicity mentioning to Ray that Barry was awake).

 

I love how excited Cisco was about seeing the Arrow cave. As much as I love the Arrow team's passion, it was nice to see the Flash team so enthusiastic and slightly less dour. Ha and I loved the four of them drinking at Verdant!

 

Are they talking about the Arrow Cave? That place is about as secure as a Starbucks bathroom.

No kidding. People just stroll in. Soon there will be random club goers wandering in and Felicity will say, "I couldn't get them to leave so I just told them to sit over there and stay out of the way."

[JenMD]

Loved it!  Basically for all the reasons stated above, so I won't repeat it all.  It was fun and engaging and some much needed truths were spoken, and yes, more of that, please.  Oh, and yay, we're having a wedding! 

 

I will agree that the lair being compromised (again) is just getting silly at this point.  They really need to address that in some fashion.

 

I do have a question though - when/why/how does Caitlin (and I assume all of Team Flash) know that the Canary is dead and that she was Sara?  Did that come up in Felicity's crossover to The Flash and I just don't recall?  I was surprised when the Canary's death was mentioned by name at the end of The Flash portion of the cross, then even more surprised when Caitilin used Sara's name last night.  I feel like I've totally forgotten a reference somewhere.