Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

S10.E08: Hibbing 911


  • Reply
  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

I love seeing Jodi Mills, which always makes me nervous she's about to be killed.

That used to be the case for me, but as often as she's recurred I think TPTB realize by now what a gem they have in both the character and the actor. I'll only worry if she pops up in one of the Buckner/Ross-Leming bizarro episodes.

Link to comment

First, I was wondering if Sam/Dean had the correct FBI badges when Donna recognized them and called them by their fake FBI names. They use different ones each week. Embarrassing to be caught with the incorrect Kinko's paperwork.

It would probably work better in the final season but I thought it would be funny if Dean/Sam walked in the the Sheriff's retreat and people recognized them by different names (beyond Donna).

  • Love 5
Link to comment

 

I rewatched that episode with Cain, and he is going to come to Dean when he is ready or " when the time comes" and it wasn't " come kill me after you kill Abbadon" like I had initially thought.

 

I was also wondering how they'd find Cain since, didn't he say he was going to find another place to live since now someone had found him?  So him finding Dean makes much more sense.  Thank you--now I can obsess over other things like, what's with Sam's reluctance to shave? ;)

Edited by cassandle
Link to comment

Donna makes a good foil for the characters on this show--she's got a sunny disposition and she's so earnest, but she can by serious and cynical when needed. The actress is amazing. I'm on board for Cas/Donna, because he desperately needs lightening up. 

 

I enjoyed this episode. I didn't even have a problem with the way Donna was with her ex--I actually thought it was well done and gave an extra layer. She really loved him (although the word WHY comes to mind) and she sees everything so glass half full that pressing down her pain and hiding it with a tight smile made her more real to me. Also loved Jody stepping up for her, because that's what Jody does. Obviously no one else has ever called him out on his bad behavior, probably because Donna hid how much it bothered her. Anyway, too much analysis for a secondary character--I'm just glad they both lived to see another day. 

 

This episode did little do dampen my Jammy love. Just sayin'. 

  • Love 2
Link to comment

I didn't even have a problem with the way Donna was with her ex--I actually thought it was well done and gave an extra layer. She really loved him (although the word WHY comes to mind) and she sees everything so glass half full that pressing down her pain and hiding it with a tight smile made her more real to me. Also loved Jody stepping up for her, because that's what Jody does. Obviously no one else has ever called him out on his bad behavior, probably because Donna hid how much it bothered her. Anyway, too much analysis for a secondary character--I'm just glad they both lived to see another day. 

 

I actually appreciated the way Donna was with her ex. I didn't see her as being trodden upon at all, but instead choosing to take the high road. It's not like she didn't know Doug was a dick, nor did she need anybody to rescue her. It was a nice change of pace that instead of calling Doug a dick over and over or spending the entire episode pointing out the myriad ways in which he was a loser, she just lets Doug show that for himself. I'm cool with how Jodi lashed out at Doug, but am rather glad they didn't have Sam or Dean even interact with Doug the dick; Donna didn't need their help anyway, she's got it under control, IMO.

  • Love 3
Link to comment

I just wanted Dean to stand close to Donna in Dougs presence so Doug could see the chemistry oozing between Dean and Donna and have Dean talk about Donna then Doug would see that a guy that looks like Dean appreciates Donna for the awesome that she is. And it would have juxtaposed Dean beating the crap out of the guy that was bothering Ann marie. Because this time it would have been about Donna vs himself. And Dean already thought Doug was a dick for leaving Donna.

I'm fine with Jody telling him where to step off but some reiteration from Dean would have been great.

Edited by catrox14
Link to comment

I guess, I just didn't need Doug to learn he was a dick nor for him to learn how awesome Donna was, but for Donna to know both of these things. And she clearly did, IMO. I can see the value of seeing someone get their comeuppance, but I'm not sure Doug having a great realization about Donna simply because Dean might be interested in her is actually all that complimentary to Donna. I think Donna is far too classy for that sort of behavior, anyway.

  • Love 1
Link to comment

You're never going to believe this, but... I agree with Ditty.  I like Donna being defined by how she feels about herself, not by how her ex-husband feels about her.  Had his impression of her been changed by Dean, and how Dean acts around her, then that would have been about Dean, not Donna.

  • Love 1
Link to comment

I needed Jodi to call Doug a dick. Because he was. And there are so so so many "Doug's" out there. I'm glad Donna objected because that really is Donna's business.  OTOH, Donna sees herself as the one to blame for the loss of the marriage. She made that clear in The Purge.  She's got a distorted view here.  So while Jodi did owe Donna an apology, Doug was so far over the line that perhaps seeing him get a smackdown from a (at the time) total stranger may ultimately help Donna to rethink her distorted view of the relationship with Doug.  If she hadn't actually passed her meal vouchers to Doug, I wouldn't have thought this. But she was still letting Doug bully her and not just taking the high ground IMO.  Donna is worth so much more. But that doesn't mean she knows it.  And yes, it would be wonderful if all people were self-aware and mentally healthy enough to value their own self.  But that's not very realistic.  So, I like that they showed a character that is pretty well liked by many, have this blind spot. And I like that someone at least pointed out that she needs to rethink how she sees Doug. 

  • Love 4
Link to comment

I agree SueB.

Donna doesn't lack confidence in her intellect or work or being able to get along with people. But unfortunately she still seemed to value on some level Doug opinion of her physical appearance which goes to a lack of desire for her. Essentially, I wanted Doug to think a guy like Dean was helping Donna to get her groove back. And at some point I do want Dean to help her get her groove back. They can be friends with benefits.

  • Love 2
Link to comment

Oh, I totally didn't mind Jodi giving Doug a verbal thump. No one should just stand by and laugh when their friend is being treated poorly even if that friend is choosing to let it happen. So, I cheered Jodi. But, what I was getting at is I think Donna knows Doug is a dick and I think Donna has a higher esteem of herself than others here do, but just doesn't feel the need to tell Doug that. That's for Doug to discover. I just think it was far more classy of Donna to not to act like a middle schooler trying to shame someone that didn't appreciate them. Personally, I'm of the opinion there's a lot of different ways to stand up for yourself and be strong. You don't need to shout at people and make a big show of everything. Sometimes knowing something but not acting on it can be far more powerful, IMO.

Edited by DittyDotDot
  • Love 1
Link to comment

I would agree with that said if Donna hadn't said "yeah but he was my dick" which I took to mean that she was still valuing him more than he deserved or was healthy for her. And yes sometimes we do need affirmation from others before we can affirm ourselves especially with relationships that are ending that we don't necessarily want to see end or are having trouble letting go.

Link to comment

I don't know how Donna finding something to value in Dog has anything to do with how she sees herself. There must have been something value-worthy in Doug for Donna to be interested in him in the first place, why would that be any different now because they broke up? I may not see anything value-worthy in Doug, myself, but think Donna has the right to think so if she so chooses. I don't think that means she's devaluing herself though, either. That's what I think she's saying when she says Doug's her dick. I don't thing Donna's saying Doug's more awesome than her or even that she wants him back. I think she saying, it's her problem and she'd like to handle it her way and I appreciated that Jodi seemed to get that and let it be.

Link to comment

I guess, I just didn't need Doug to learn he was a dick nor for him to learn how awesome Donna was, but for Donna to know both of these things. And she clearly did, IMO. I can see the value of seeing someone get their comeuppance, but I'm not sure Doug having a great realization about Donna simply because Dean might be interested in her is actually all that complimentary to Donna. I think Donna is far too classy for that sort of behavior, anyway.

 

He was just so disrespectful, and right in public, I couldn't believe that nobody was calling him out on it. Out of everyone, Donna would be least likely to actually call him out, imo, since that's her ex and of course she'd have a soft spot for him or at least be in a more delicate situation with him. Who knows, maybe that's her kids' father or she's still close with his family or whatever, we barely found anything out about her life (albeit I barely remember The Purge). I just felt bad for her that she felt she had to put up with him. Afaik, nobody else at the conference needed to put up with his shit, though, so I don't understand why they would. I didn't think that Jodi looked like a middle schooler when she finally told Doug off. Somebody needed to -- social control is a thing! And there were just loads of douchebags at that conference (the younger sheriffs or maybe deputies? that gun seller?). I hope they all saw Jodi put her foot down, because maybe now they'll all feel a twinge of trepidation when they get the urge to be jerks again. Guess we'll find out next time the show decides to set an episode in Hibbing -- I hope there is a next time! This episode had more of a sense of place than the show has had for a long time, imo. That was probably my favorite thing about this one, and what made it feel like a bit of a throwback (in a good way).

  • Love 1
Link to comment
rue721, on 05 Dec 2014 - 3:01 PM, said:rue721, on 05 Dec 2014 - 3:01 PM, said:

I didn't think that Jodi looked like a middle schooler when she finally told Doug off.

 

I didn't either and that wasn't what I was referring to when I said middle school behavior. I thought I was pretty clear that I though Jodi did the right thing and I cheered her. What I was referring to being middle school behavior would be having Donna set up a situation where Doug would see Donna and Dean together so Doug could have see a good-looking guy appreciate Donna. To me, setting up that sort of situation is kinda a smug "I told you so" and is something middle schoolers would try to pull off when they got their feelings hurt. I realize many a romantic comedy has done this sort of stchik, but it's not something I think that actually shines a very good light on an adult.

Edited by DittyDotDot
Link to comment

Yes, indeed, the conference had a fair portion of assholes.  First we've got Doug the Dick. Then there's condescending gun seller. Here, have a LADY gun.  Finally we had junior asshole. Who totally fell for Dean's charm BTW. 

 

I must admit, I kinda thought they WOULD go with Doug seeing Dean appreciate Donna. But I'm really glad they didn't.  With assholes like that, it's based on their insecurity in the first place.  It wouldn't make him think more of Donna, it would make him resent her more IMO.  What Jodi did, the public shaming thing, was better because it made it clear that his behavior was shitty. So, even if Doug was never going to change his mind, at least he would know that his behavior was noticeably douchey.  Someone like Doug is vain.  Being told off in public is more likely to prevent him from tormenting Donna in public (in case there are other people like Jodi who have no f*cks to give). 

 

I guess what I'm saying, is any little "scene" is not enough. If the two were an actual item, that wouldn't get Doug to rethink but he'd definitely shut up for fear of losing a limb. Dean is f*cking scary if you piss him off.  But this was not going to happen (at least not in this episode). So..I'm okay with a public shaming by Jodi. 

Link to comment

If they wanted to, there could have been a little fist-pump scene of Doug-comeuppance mainly for the viewers. If for some reason Doug had simply seen Donna and Dean together, without any set-up. They could have been talking animatedly about vampires or something, just so a third party from further away could have misjudged the situation as flirting. Then Doug would have had lemon-face, possibly without either Donna or Dean even noticing.

 

I get that 40 minute episdes are not that long and lots of stuff that even gets filmed gets cut and a scene like I described it would have been superflouus to plot or characters but heck, it`s not like they have never wasted precious screentime on filling material, boring and superflouus and/or offensive material. So a cute throwaway of the "dick" getting theirs in the background wouldn`t be the most wasteful thing they could do in an episode.

 

 

Someone like Doug is vain.  Being told off in public is more likely to prevent him from tormenting Donna in public (in case there are other people like Jodi who have no f*cks to give).

 

If - and that is something guys like this do - he was boastful to other guys, witnessing a Dean-Donna scene in front of them would have get the mockery turned on him. "Oh, you thought you were a 7 and your ex only a 3? Look like SHE can land a 10, sucker". That would have shut him up, too, because he would have basically lost face.

 

In the end, he would have resented the hell out of them either way. Being told off, being shown to be a fool, wouldn`t matter. And I`m thinking he just resented Donna and Jodi in that moment for being a "screechy woman" as well. A woman standing up for another one in a moment like this will IMO not really get the guy to change his mind nor his behaviour. Instead they will wait till they get their "victim" alone again and then mock them some more. And I fully realize I just described your basic schoolyard bully but I do not actually believe the basic modus operandi changes with adulthood.

Edited by Aeryn13
  • Love 1
Link to comment

I wasn't suggesting that donna or Dean set up that situation at all. They don't need to because IMO they have such a wonderful organic connection that just hanging out together would have been sufficient maybe Dean flirts a little to drive the point home. But in no way way was I saying it should be a setup.

I think donna saying Doug was her dick was unhealthy because she said after he bullied her about the meal vouchers and because she saw him dancing and flirting. She might remember the good things but IMO she needed to also remember how he disrespected her. So tome that is why she was still valuing him more than herself.

Link to comment

I didn't either and that wasn't what I was referring to when I said middle school behavior. I thought I was pretty clear that I though Jodi did the right thing and I cheered her. What I was referring to being middle school behavior would be having Donna set up a situation where Doug would see Donna and Dean together so Doug could have see a good-looking guy appreciate Donna.

 

Ah, OK. Sorry, I misunderstood, and agree with this. I didn't want Doug to get a message that "this other dude thinks Donna's hot, so you shouldn't publicly disrespect her" message anyway. I wanted him to get called out for being an ass and a bully, because that's not an OK way to behave just as a general rule.

 

I must admit, I kinda thought they WOULD go with Doug seeing Dean appreciate Donna. But I'm really glad they didn't.  With assholes like that, it's based on their insecurity in the first place.  It wouldn't make him think more of Donna, it would make him resent her more IMO.  What Jodi did, the public shaming thing, was better because it made it clear that his behavior was shitty. So, even if Doug was never going to change his mind, at least he would know that his behavior was noticeably douchey.  Someone like Doug is vain.  Being told off in public is more likely to prevent him from tormenting Donna in public (in case there are other people like Jodi who have no f*cks to give). 

 

I agree, I think someone needed to put their foot down about Doug being a rude dick. Not just for Doug's (or Donna's) sake, but to set a general tone of "we're not a bunch of assholes here, get it together."

 

Personally, I don't care if Doug felt regret or something about not being in a relationship with Donna anymore (which imo is what making it about another guy liking her would be about). Breaking up with her is a valid choice, imo. Being an asshole and bullying/tearing her down in public and in front of their colleagues is NOT a valid choice, however! The latter is what I wanted him called out on.

Link to comment
catrox14, on 05 Dec 2014 - 3:28 PM, said:catrox14, on 05 Dec 2014 - 3:28 PM, said:

I think donna saying Doug was her dick was unhealthy because she said after he bullied her about the meal vouchers and because she saw him dancing and flirting. She might remember the good things but IMO she needed to also remember how he disrespected her. So tome that is why she was still valuing him more than herself.

 

Yes, I whole-heartedly agree Doug was disrespectful to Donna, no question. But, I don't think she didn't know that. Nor do I think her putting up with him means she thinks it's okay for him to disrespect her or that she thought she deserved it. I just think Donna didn't feel the need to make a public spectacle of herself to show that. I just think she was trying to get through the conference as amiabily and with as little conflict as possible. It's kinda like going home for holidays and such. As much as I love my family, they drive me nuts and are really quite dismissive and some might say they're disrespectful of me at times. But rather than make everything an argument and ruin my own holiday, I remind myself I don't have to live with these people daily so try to make the best of it, I'll be going home in a few days anyway.

 

Set up or not, I still think Doug seeing Donna and Dean together is still more about Doug than Donna, IMO, and I can't see how that would make Donna feel better about herself. But, maybe that's because it wouldn't make me feel better about myself if the situation was mine, but, as always, miles vary.

Edited by DittyDotDot
Link to comment

On the other hand, it's a professional conference, and he's making quite a show of letting everyone she might want to work with or for hear that she's someone who can be dismissed, so leaving aside whatever adolescent relationship politics folks see in it, he needed to be shut down hard publicly, which happened.

She may have not wanted that because she was above it, but the glow on her face when she took down the vampire and got her attagirls seems to me like it suggests that she doesn't see herself as someone who's capable of awesome things, and she's not used to being spoken to respectfully.

Edited by Julia
  • Love 5
Link to comment

Random Triple D thoughts: 

 

1) When Donna said "he's my dick" what came across to me from how the actress said and played it was that Donna knew he was a dick and her acknowledgement of him being her dick was more like mourning for what could have been. It's clear she's moved on, but there's some residual feelings there. 

 

2) Doug is a clueless dick. He's also the biggest dick in the room. He's the kind of guy people just let embarrass himself at the office party because it's not only satisfying to watch, there's nothing you can do about it. 

 

3) I think Donna has enough respect from the other law enforcement officers that they don't feel the need to intervene when he's being uber dickish. She can handle Doug, even if it seems to outsiders that she's letting him be disrespectful. Like someone said, Donna's taking the high road. Jodie of course doesn't know this, so she's stepping up and telling him to step off. I think Donna was both annoyed and appreciative. 

 

4) Doug wouldn't have noticed Dean and Donna even if Dean gave her a lapdance in the middle of a donut shop. He's got, like, three brain cells and two of them don't work.  

 

5) I wouldn't mind throwaway lines of dialogue in future episodes about Dean making an extra curricular trip or two to Hibbing while Donna was on vacay. 

 

Sam: Where are you going? Why do you have a bag packed? 

Dean: Hibbing.

Sam: Hibbing? What's in Hibbing?

Dean: A little slice of heaven. And I'm not talking about that angel crap 

  • Love 3
Link to comment

There's no way in heck Doug would ever think he's not the most important person in the room. I know men like him. They are ALWAYS right, always the funniest, smartest, whatever. It's that Donna is still letting him bully her that bugs the beejesus out of me. He wanted those meal vouchers ... if she had only said, "That'll be 10 bucks, please." Instead, she was still acting the whipped pup. If the first thing out of his mouth after not seeing her for so long is about how fat she still is, then she's been verbally abused and made to feel bad about herself for a long, long time and she's getting no help for it. Not even the fat-sucking MOTW spa helped her self esteem.

 

 And that's why I did not like this episode. I've lived Donna's life, I know what it's like and I know what verbal abuse can do to ruin a person.

 

I think Dean giving Donna a spin around the dance floor would have done her psyche some good, Doug be scr*wed. I know it would have made me happy.

 

 

Sam: Where are you going? Why do you have a bag packed?

Dean: Hibbing.

Sam: Hibbing? What's in Hibbing?

Dean: A little slice of heaven. And I'm not talking about that angel crap

A big YES to this!

Edited by saber5055
  • Love 1
Link to comment

So upon re-watch, I noticed they were playing Dean's family theme in the last scene with Dean and Sam and Donna and Jodie having their separate conversations after Donna learns what the boys do.   That has to be important. That makes me think that Jodie and Donna are now considered family...and that just makes my grinchy heart grow three sizes.

Link to comment

There's no way in heck Doug would ever think he's not the most important person in the room. I know men like him. They are ALWAYS right, always the funniest, smartest, whatever. It's that Donna is still letting him bully her that bugs the beejesus out of me. He wanted those meal vouchers ... if she had only said, "That'll be 10 bucks, please." Instead, she was still acting the whipped pup. If the first thing out of his mouth after not seeing her for so long is about how fat she still is, then she's been verbally abused and made to feel bad about herself for a long, long time and she's getting no help for it. Not even the fat-sucking MOTW spa helped her self esteem.

 

I think that's where I'm having the disconnect: I don't view Donna as the victim here. Doug's an asshat, no question, but I think she was embarrassed by Doug and wanted him to go away. The fastest and easiest way to do that was to give him the meal vouchers. Same with when Doug was disrespecting her in front of Jodi, I got the impression she started playing along because she just wanted him to go away and didn't want to make a big scene. Plus, Doug seemed as clueless as a brick wall, so telling him off seemed rather pointless to me. So, rather than making a big spectacle of herself, she handled it with grace and cunning, IMO. I think she was actually in control of the situation rather than being the victim and makes her more powerful in my eyes.

 

So often women are thought to only be strong if the yell back or throw a punch or make a big scene so everyone else can see they aren't gonna take it anymore. I appreciated how she didn't need everyone to know she was handling it and she was willing to look the victim if it solved the problem. That's also how I saw her in the scene in the barn where she used her glasses lens to cut her rope. There was no fan fare or a big "your so smart" moment. She did what needed to be done at the time and didn't give a crap if she was the big hero or not. All she cared about was the job getting done.

 

In many ways, I saw Donna as Dean and Jodi as Sam in this episode, but it wasn't as heavy-handed as they usually do. They used to do this quite well with Rufus and Bobby back in the day, too. Dean is always seen as the fun-loving, sacrificing hero that never gets the glory and Sam is generally seen as the grumpy, pissy-pants who seems to come out smelling like roses at the end of the day. It's not perfect, but it's how I saw it anyway.

  • Love 2
Link to comment

I think Donna was a victim of her asshat husband. He fat shamed her.  He humiliated her in front of other people and she didn't either speak up for herself or got some kind of quiet vengeance. I can't say that she was trying to rise above.

 

To me she didn't retaliate at all. She was looking at him and the woman he was dancing a bit wistfully which if he hadn't been such an asshat to her would have been understandable. But I think she feels a lot of her own shame which she kind of addressed back in the Purge.

 

To me, his opinion on some level still mattered based on how I interpreted her reaction to his reaction to her saying she lost 6 lbs. She was proud of what she had done, and seemed to want Doug to know about either because she was saying 'Screw you I've lost weight since you dumped me" or "Hey I'm doing good" but either way his response was just further bullying with 'well you're a 1/3 of the way there" or whatever shitty thing he said instead of saying "That's great Donna!".  And then his touching her later was worse.

 

 Now don't get me wrong, I like that Donna was not this perfect kick ass/hard core person. She is layered and nuance and nice.  She is relatable and likeable because she wasn't totally done with Doug even if she was divorced. He still affected her deeply IMO. But I think she just was not to the point that she could openly stand up to his shit in public yet.  And that is why I think Dean getting involved on some level would have helped her move on. 

  • Love 1
Link to comment

I think Donna was a victim of her asshat husband. He fat shamed her.  He humiliated her in front of other people and she didn't either speak up for herself or got some kind of quiet vengeance. I can't say that she was trying to rise above.

 

I never said she was getting vengeance, I said I thought she was handling, in her own way. It was in no way her getting back at him--nor does it need to be since I think vengeance is rather petty and Donna is far better than that, IMO--but her just trying to quietly handle it--not only for herself, but for the whole room at large. When Doug's dissing her in front of Jodi, there was this moment where it looked like she was going to go off on him, but then she composed herself and started playing along. To me that said it all. She wasn't just sitting there taking his abuse, she instead was turning the situation around and using it to her advantage, IMO.

 

As far as looking wistfully at Doug dancing with someone else, I guess I just didn't see it as her thinking he was dancing with this "skinny" woman, but looking at someone she once shared her life with who had moved on. I think that's a perfectly normal reaction for anyone, I don't think that means they have self esteem issues or that they wish they could have that person back in their life necessarily.

 

I just think we as a society prefer to see women as victims, its like we crave womanly tragedy and strife or something.  I guess, I just prefer to see her as being strong, smart and powerful rather than her being weak and cowardly in the face of a dick ex-husband. YMMV.

  • Love 1
Link to comment

I never said she was getting vengeance, I said I thought she was handling, in her own way. It was in no way her getting back at him--nor does it need to be since I think vengeance is rather petty and Donna is far better than that, IMO--but her just trying to quietly handle it--not only for herself, but for the whole room at large. When Doug's dissing her in front of Jodi, there was this moment where it looked like she was going to go off on him, but then she composed herself and started playing along. To me that said it all. She wasn't just sitting there taking his abuse, she instead was turning the situation around and using it to her advantage, IMO.

 

I don't understand how she was using the situation to her advantage or handling the situation for the room at large, though? I don't think she herself needed to flip out at Doug (personally, I'm a hothead and in her place there is ZERO PERCENT CHANCE he would have been getting my meal tickets, etc, but not everyone has to be like that, and that's her ex-husband so things are going to be complicated for her, etc) -- but it looked to me like she was just trying to get through without making waves. Which, fair enough, but I'm glad that apparently Doug's attempts to humiliate her didn't actually cost her respect/authority with her colleagues, which is what I would be stressing about if I were her.

 

"Humiliate her" not in that he'd dumped her or whatever, but in that he was walking around the conference acting like she was someone who could just get shat on in public with impunity. Maybe that's a kind of jailhouse way of thinking about it, but that's why imo him tearing her down in public was a big deal. So I was glad when someone he was trying to humiliate her in front of (Jodi) called him out and told him it was making him -- not her -- look bad. I also get why Donna would have to stand up to herself to Jodi a little, so that Jodi wouldn't think she needed rescuing in general or was a "bird with a broken wing" type.

 

Tbh the only thing Donna did that actually put me off was when she whispered to that ME or whoever that Jodi didn't have any manners. Pot calling the kettle black, Donna, when you're stage-whispering insults right in front of someone. But I don't think that was supposed to come off as harsh as all that, so...*shrug.*

Link to comment

 

I just think we as a society prefer to see women as victims, its like we crave womanly tragedy and strife or something.  I guess, I just prefer to see her as being strong, smart and powerful rather than her being weak and cowardly in the face of a dick ex-husband. YMMV.

 

I am not saying Donna is weak or cowardly at all in general. And I DO NOT prefer to see women that way. She was smart and strong but I think Doug is her weak spot. I think it is realistic to show that even someone as funny and kind and smart and loving as Donna can still be not 100% able to see the faults of their partner and will still kind of buy in to their shit at times.

 

Donna took the blame for the relationship ending in the Purge. She might legitimately have believed that if she hadn't made food more important than Doug they would still be together.  She talked about her own darkness and depression.  I wish we had gotten to learn more about what triggered her depression. If Doug was the same personality when she was married to him as in this episode I can see why she was depressed. But maybe something else triggered her depression and led to her turning to food as a substitute for love.  Maybe she just LOVED food and gained some weight because she loved food.

 

I don't think she was looking wistfully at Doug and a skinny woman but just Doug with someone else and that made me sad. I would rather have seen her see him with the other woman and think back to the shitty way he treated her and then realized she is better off.  But she didn't and I get that.

 

I have to say I thought the stuff between Jodi and Donna was some of the most realistic behavior between women I have ever seen on this show and in most of TV. 

  • Love 1
Link to comment

Tbh the only thing Donna did that actually put me off was when she whispered to that ME or whoever that Jodi didn't have any manners. Pot calling the kettle black, Donna, when you're stage-whispering insults right in front of someone. But I don't think that was supposed to come off as harsh as all that, so...*shrug.*

 

I thought she was doing Jody a favor. Jody assumed she'd have access to the body and everything else, and in doing so, overstepped the parochial bonds. Donna reinforced those bonds and made the other woman feel like Jody was just a clueless outsider who needed educating. That way she could go in under Donna's supervision.

 

As for Donna and Doug, I think on some level she knew he wasn't good enough for her and that he'd never treat her the way she deserved to be treated. I just think it was something she wanted to handle in her own way, likely privately. I also think she knew that the police department in her area was a boy's club, and her ex was a big shot, so she had to keep up a positive face.

  • Love 3
Link to comment

I thought she was doing Jody a favor. Jody assumed she'd have access to the body and everything else, and in doing so, overstepped the parochial bonds. Donna reinforced those bonds and made the other woman feel like Jody was just a clueless outsider who needed educating. That way she could go in under Donna's supervision.

 

Ah, OK, that makes sense. At the time, I thought it was just a really passive-aggressive way for Donna to shame Jodi into acting more "polite," but your explanation fits much better.

Link to comment

Was Doug a big wig? I didn't get that impression at all.

 

You may be right. I just sort of assumed, based on the way he was behaving, and his recently dumping her as no longer being good enough for him.

The more I think about this episode, the more I feel like wide swathes of it (mostly Donna's story) had little to do with SPN, yet in this instance, I think it worked. It was nice to have a break, while still incorporating Dean and Sam. We also got to see what the world of the supernatural can do to outsiders that isn't always negative or harmful. The last time I felt like an episode accomplished this was the golem episode with adorable Aaron, back in season 8.

Link to comment

I think Pete's explanation works whether Doug was a big shot or not. Clearly he thinks he is, and for all we know he's ten steps below Donna in rank. We know he is in basic humanity. 

 

The more I ponder on this episode, the more I realize how well done it was (and the more I question how in the heck that happened). The MOTW was weak, but the interpersonal dynamics were really good. Donna could have stood up to Doug, but then it would have been more about Doug and Donna. With Jody doing it, Doug got cut out of the picture and it became about Donna and Jody, and was a step toward cementing their mutual respect for each other. Donna stood up for herself with Jody, and that earned Jody's respect. Then they became a team. If Dean had done anything to make Doug jealous/Donna feel good, then it would have been about Dean/Donna/Doug (as someone mentioned before) and that really wasn't Dean's business or fight. Considering how this show portrays women on the regular, Jody and Donna are winning. 

 

Thanks DittyDot for pointing out the parallels between Jody/Donna and Dean/Sam.--I didn't see them before but now it's clear. I did think Jody was a bit more curmudgeonly in this episode than usual, but I chalked it up to her not wanting to be at the retreat and trying to parent a seventeen year old (never mind that she's seventeen years old and a former monster). Also, the contrast might have been sharper due to Donna's ray of sunshine personality. I really like those two together. 

  • Love 3
Link to comment

The more I ponder on this episode, the more I realize how well done it was (and the more I question how in the heck that happened).

 

Same here. I can't believe the show managed to pull this off. It's not the most action packed, no big twisty ideas, not even all that supernatural; it's mostly a fairly straightforward character piece of two minor characters. I'm seriously flummoxed as to how this happened.

 

 

I don't understand how she was using the situation to her advantage or handling the situation for the room at large, though?

 

I think Donna made the situation something different than it was. She could've made a big scene and made everyone uncomfortable, but instead she allowed herself to be the butt of a joke to make things easier for the room at large.

 

I used to have a boss that was the biggest curmudgeon of them all--I loved him, but sometimes he'd start down a road where the whole world was shit and everything was horrible and man did it get depressing at times. So I started to take his statements and twist them around until we were both laughing which greatly improved the overall tone of the office. That's what I think Donna was doing with Doug. She was taking a negative situation and trying to turn it into a positive without making the whole room feel uncomfortable. I think this is something that Dean has done very well over the course of the show too--reading situations and subvertly turning them to his advantage.

 

Doug's gonna be a dick no matter where he goes and no matter what Donna says to him he'll never get it; he's as clueless as a brick wall. Donna seemed to know this, in fact she kinda said it to Jodi at one point. To me, saying Donna is the victim of a total idiot that doesn't even get that he's being an asshat is like saying the Roadrunner is the victim of Wile E. Coyote. It just doesn't compute in this situation for me.

 

No matter where one goes in this world there will be people who say unkind things and act foolishly, but I don't think that automatically makes the receiver a victim. In my mind, a victim is someone that is powerless to act and I didn't think that was the case here with Donna. Not only was she not powerless, I think she did act. I think making her Doug's victim gives Doug far more importance to the story than he should warrant in any universe. I guess, I just prefer thinking Donna holds the power and importance here.

  • Love 1
Link to comment

Yes, indeed, the conference had a fair portion of assholes.  First we've got Doug the Dick. Then there's condescending gun seller. Here, have a LADY gun.  Finally we had junior asshole. Who totally fell for Dean's charm BTW.

That didn't make sense to me - surely if that guy is working law enforcement conferences he's dealt with female LEOs before, and women in those jobs are not the type to meekly take condescension. Pitching Saturday night specials to grandmotherly types whose husbands recently passed away might work, but how would he ever make a sale of a dainty "lady gun" with that attitude to someone who may be raiding meth dens at her day job?

Link to comment

 

That didn't make sense to me - surely if that guy is working law enforcement conferences he's dealt with female LEOs before, and women in those jobs are not the type to meekly take condescension.

 

I wish I had a nickle for every time something like this happened when the should have known better.  

  • Love 1
Link to comment

What a godawful episode.

 

I used to think Sheriff Jody was one of the least interesting Supernatural characters ever ... until I encountered that awful Fargo impression known as Donna.

 

I'm 24 minutes in and fighting the urge to pull the plug and go back and watch Fan Fiction again.

Link to comment

This was the first (full) episode I ever saw and it replayed again this week, so I thought this would be a good place to jump in.  I think it served as a pretty good introduction to the show, if nothing else, it intrigued me enough that I sought out the rest of the show.

 

So, some random thoughts,

The case may not have been the strongest ever, but it was great to see Fred Ewanuick.  

I really enjoyed the interactions between Jody and Donna and I hope we'll see this team again!

The Men of Letters set is gorgeous.

I thought hippie girl was a bit off from the get go.

I think I know Donna's ex (or you know, a guy just like him).

I'm with Sheriff Mills on not liking work enforced "bonding" exercises.  Just ugh.

Oh and I'm so happy that the vampires on this show don't sparkle!  Just saying :D

 

On a final note, this show is definitely in my wheelhouse and I don't know how I missed it for so long, but I'll be honest and admit that while I appreciate much of what this show is (or tries to be), the pretty is a good part of why I'll be sticking around.  Because I'm shallow like that ;D

  • Love 1
Link to comment

Just watching this again tonight. 

 

Gah...I can't help it. I ship JoSam and Deonna....

 

I love Donna so much. She is my favorite female character ever on this show. I hope they bring her back as like a semi-regular. 

Link to comment

I would totally watch a Donna and Jodi-o show.  

 

They could use Jodi's home for wayward girls as a backdrop, but it would need to stay way in the background.  If it was just Jodi and ex vampire girl, I think it would be good.

 

I'm generally opposed to how people from MN are portrayed, but over time I really have learned to like Donna.  Some people do talk like Donna does, but I get tired of being used to bring the point home that they're from MN and everybody talks that way.  It's kind of a caricature.   

 

The expression on Jodi's face when she was flashing back to when her husband was killed made me tear up.  

 

Overall I enjoy this episode.  Donna's initiation into the freaks and freaks club.  I liked that she accepted it all so well. Accepted might not be the right term, but I can't think of a more accurate word right now. 

Link to comment

I think back to Sara in s2 and her basically immediate acceptance of a haunted painting and she was a civilian. For me, I think Donna being a cop let her sort of find this weird as hell but not so frightening as to paralyze her into inaction. 

Link to comment

Boy, I like seeing Sheriffs Donna and Jodi again!  That being said:

  • Why was Jodi being such a crank at the beginning?  I'm sure this is not the first time over the length of her law enforcement career that she's ever had to attend some kind of retreat/seminar like this.   Even with the teen problems back at home weighing on her, I expected a little more professionalism out of her.
  • Huh, Sam must have been talking to Jodi when Dean went MIA.  Not very nice of Sam not to let her know Dean was okay though.  Not cool, Sam.  Still, nice that he has someone with whom he could talk.
  • Damn, the puppy eyes are strong with you, Dean Winchester.
  • Yay!  Jodi hugs for the boys again!
  • I think Dean has a little crush on Donna.  I'd totally ship it.
  • Didn't see the hippy teen being the monster/vamp at the end - or Sheriff Cuse (sp?) having been one and turned away from the lifestyle.  
  • Speaking of Sheriff Cuse, why did he stay on his knees after he told them he wouldn't kill the Scooby gang?  I mean, way to make it easier for someone to behead you...  Yeah, I saw that coming from a mile away.     

I liked it.  It was a pretty good, overall enjoyable episode, without too much BAM at the end.  

  • Love 1
Link to comment

I liked Jodi and Fargo teaming up.  But really, if I see one more scene where the boys are tied up and they cut their ropes loose with nobody noticing I'm going to punch my tv.  It's such lazy writing when they do that.  No one gets out of being tied up, ever!  Send these monster villains to rope tying 101.  Here's a tip, use duct tape next time.

Edited by Dobian
  • Love 3
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...