S10.E07: Girls, Girls, Girls

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Crowley is in the body of a publisher or a publishing agent from New York IIRC

Oooh, that's right. Fergus was a tailor.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oooh, that's right. Fergus was a tailor.

I think Fergus was Crowley's real name. Fergus MacLeod but someone ate his tailor. Did he possess his tailor? Wait. I'm confused.

Fergus was the tailor originally? Then he possessed the publisher and then someone ate his tailor after he was Crowley?

Edited September 8, 2017 by catrox14

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I think Fergus was Crowley's real name. Fergus MacLeod but someone ate his tailor. Did he possess his tailor?

From Superwiki:

Quote

Crowley says he was a 17th century Scottish tailor named Fergus MacLeod from Canisbay, Scotland who sold his soul in life for three more inches in length on his penis, to hit "double digits.

I think Gavin references this in Weekend At Bobby's

Crowley did say 'they ate my tailor' in The Devil You Know when he's on the run from the demons.

[DittyDotDot]

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Tailor?

No, he was a tailor in real life. The body he possessed, he said was a mild-mannered...I was thinking literary agent, but I think @catrox14 might be right that it was a publisher.

OOPS! Didn't see there was another page...AGAIN! Sheesh.

Edited September 8, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think Fergus was Crowley's real name. Fergus MacLeod but someone ate his tailor. Did he possess his tailor? Wait. I'm confused.

Fergus was the tailor originally? Then he possessed the publisher and then someone ate his tailor after he was Crowley?

Exactly.  His life came full-circle.   Some day in the future, he will possess a tailor (who writes) and they will eat his literary agent.

[Iju]

"amy's" reason for leaving is bull, tbh. just because she's possessing a human doesn't mean she has to experience human emotions. hence why cass didn't need to eat, drink, sleep, etc, so why amy? and by just putting "she knew that but she wanted to do it anyway" out there isn't cutting it. there is no interest in doing those things to angels. it's just the facts.

the accent on crowley's mother is so grating. it doesn't sound natural at all.

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, Iju said:

the accent on crowley's mother is so grating. it doesn't sound natural at all.

Ruth Connell who plays Rowena,  is Scottish, like from Scotland. She has a Scottish accent and she chose to amp it up a bit for the role.

[Iju]

On 9/21/2018 at 7:36 PM, catrox14 said:

Ruth Connell who plays Rowena,  is Scottish, like from Scotland. She has a Scottish accent and she chose to amp it up a bit for the role.

ah i see. she must have exaggerated to the point that it backfired i assume.

[Katy M]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 7:14 PM, Iju said:

"amy's" reason for leaving is bull, tbh. just because she's possessing a human doesn't mean she has to experience human emotions. hence why cass didn't need to eat, drink, sleep, etc, so why amy? and by just putting "she knew that but she wanted to do it anyway" out there isn't cutting it. there is no interest in doing those things to angels. it's just the facts.

the accent on crowley's mother is so grating. it doesn't sound natural at all.

You mean Hannah? I guess if Cas can choose to get drunk (in 99 Problems if not other epis), then Hannah can choose to take a shower.   I'm also sure Death didn't need to eat junk food.  he just wanted to. 

[catrox14]

11 hours ago, Iju said:

ah i see. she must have exaggerated to the point that it backfired i assume.

Maybe for some viewers.

Hannah could choose to shower because she wanted to do so. but the reality is that scene exists to make Cas uncomfortable and it's played for the humor. It's stupid but it wasn't like Hannah was trying to seduce Cas.

[pixelcat]

On 9/21/2018 at 7:36 PM, catrox14 said:

Ruth Connell who plays Rowena,  is Scottish, like from Scotland. She has a Scottish accent and she chose to amp it up a bit for the role.

Funny this came up (sort of) now.  I'm a fan of non-US detective shows and loved watching Shetland, but had a hard time understanding what some of the characters were saying.  After I binged a bunch of Supernatural featuring Rowena, I went back to Shetland and realized I understood them all perfectly.

[The Companion]

 

On 11/26/2014 at 10:38 AM, catrox14 said:

 

I kind of agree here.  That's why it's adolescent.  I think they think more women = strong women which is not true.  And I agree that I don't think the show is misogynistic at heart. I don't think the main characters actually HATE women nor do I think the showrunners HATE women.

Yes. I think the show can veer into misogynistic territory and certainly reflects certain patriarchal ideals. The show can sometimes fall back on stereotypes and often features women who are either a thin sketch of a character or defined solely by their relationship with the men, which is both lazy writing and not particularly interesting. 

Showing more women without showing them as complex individuals does nothing to help.

On 11/26/2014 at 12:00 PM, Pete Martell said:

I don't think the showrunners hate women, but I think some of them have little respect or understanding for women. If they did they would allow for more diverse portrayals of women, wouldn't repeatedly bring back longtime popular female characters just for shock value deaths, and wouldn't continue to use slurs that made some of the actresses (like Alaina Huffman) uncomfortable. 

I don't know if they think more women = strong women (last week's episode had 4 women and they weren't written as being strong), but I do think they have responded to the criticism by trying to diversify a little. For instance, Kate and her sister got the sibling angst parallels men usually get. Rowena is a little different for the show. You have attempts to write a POV for some of the hookup characters, like Ann-Marie in the season premiere. 

One of the problems is these women are still written within a narrow perspective. Even if Ann-Marie stood up for herself, we still last saw her with Demon Dean calling her a skank. Hannah made so many brave choices, yet she will likely be remembered for throwing herself at Cas. Rowena still has to be someone's mother. 

I don't envy the show. I know a lot of Dean/Cas fans and Cas fans would have likely hated Hannah even if the show had kept it totally platonic. I know there will be a lot of hate for the episode next week and people will say Jody and Donna should die and this show is about the brothers. 

But there are some basic things they could do that would really improve the show's treatment of women, and it rarely happens. 

I agree. So often the women of this show are defined by their relationship with one of the men, and they are almost always considered as a romantic partner for one of the men. Early in the show, there was just a weekly young attractive women with an interchangeable personality. They have added characters over the years who are women and who have their own lives and some depth, but then they get killed off. I think TPTB hear: you need more women but have missed the message that those women should be complex characters. 

I do like Charlie because she is something different (I know opinions vary on that). I like Jody Mills and actually hope they don't have her get together with one of the brothers. But this show is absolutely guilty of re-introducing the same types over and over.

On 11/26/2014 at 2:17 PM, Pete Martell said:

 

Meg (especially the first Meg) and Bela were both highly sexualized, as was Ruby after Gen got the role. There was also heavy emphasis with Bela and Ruby on whether they were superior to Dean and/or Sam - tougher, smarter. This meant they were always defined by Dean and Sam, and fans punished them for it. There was also free reign for viewers to cheer them being called whore/slut/skank/bitch/et al.

Having a somewhat older woman who isn't sexualized and isn't there to be in competition with Dean and Sam opens the door for different types of storytelling, if the show bothers to try it, or to have her as something beyond Crowley's mummy.

I maintain that Bela was a total lost opportunity. I hope that Rowena will be something other than more of the same, but we will have to see.

On 12/2/2014 at 2:15 PM, Wynne88 said:

It was a small thing, but I really liked it when during the confrontation with Cole, Dean told Sam to put his gun down, and (after a short hesitation) Sam did.  I was expecting Sam to demand that Cole put his down first, and I think that the fact that he didn't conveyed a great deal of faith in his brother's judgement.

Me too. I noticed that and it was one of the things I really loved about this episode and the improvements to the relationship this season.

On 9/21/2018 at 6:36 PM, catrox14 said:

Ruth Connell who plays Rowena,  is Scottish, like from Scotland. She has a Scottish accent and she chose to amp it up a bit for the role.

I suspect, though I wouldn't speak for others, that part of the problem is that her accent is slightly inconsistent. Sometimes she sounds "more Scottish" than others. I think that is a natural thing that happens, but it it more noticeable in a less familiar accent. So, I sound more Southern when I say naked or mama, but otherwise I typically have a fairly generic American TV accent. When I lived in DC, people would assume I was from where they were from, except when a y'all would show up in conversation. I liked the accent, but I did notice that it fluctuated occasionally and wonder if that isn't the complaint at heart. 

 

When I was a kid, I went to girl scout camp and we would play this game where we would tell a story together. If I recall, there was like a ball of yarn you undid till you hit a knot, or some other way that designated that the story would be passed to the next person. And I may be conflating it with a different game, but I seem to recall that the next person would start their portion with "and then." (I promise this is going somewhere.). So  you would end up with this absolutely nuts and hilarious story because you had different authors and people would tend to go back to something that interested them or they would throw in something that they were thinking about that might not naturally follow. So it would be like: Once there was this girl and she needed s'mores supplies, so she went to the store . . . AND THEN a dragon flew in and grabbed her . . . AND THEN she really wanted those s'mores so she hopped off the dragon to get them . . . AND THEN she got lost and met this old witch . . . . You get the picture. Anyway, Supernatural has certain episodes that I think of as "and then" episodes where they are a huge plot dump and nothing really gets developed as much as I would like because so much is happening. This was definitely an "and then" episode. I actually really liked it, but there was so much going on and it was often entirely unrelated to the scene before it, which made for a slightly frustrating watch.

So, what did I love? I love that they are finally tackling the consent/angel possession issue. This is something that has clearly bothered me for seasons (though a spoiler has somewhat mitigated it). We have seen multiple examples of angels taking a vessel through "consent" that is neither informed nor freely given. Castiel obtained consent through coercion (let me have your body back or I will take your child's). We have seen angels take over bodies that subsequently exploded and manipulate the religious to say yes. Plus Gadreel. For me, the angel plot has, honestly, been a bit of a bore. It grinds the show to a halt sometimes. But, I think there was a lot of payoff here (though I would have liked a bit more build up). Hannah's experiences as she learned about being human from Castiel affected how she reacted to her vessel's husband and she re-examined her own beliefs about everything in that light. I love that and I love that Castiel is now reconsidering Jimmy. Were it left to me, I would have absolutely tweaked the delivery of this storyline a bit, but I really liked what they did here.

I love that the brothers are communicating and trusting. Even with Dean shutting down discussions when he is clearly struggling, I think that it has been great to see them communicating. I love that Sam is finally being written in a way where he is checking in and showing concern for his brother. I don't think Dean can really articulate what is happening, and I do think he is scared, so I don't have a problem with him being unable to talk about it. The fact that this wasn't a plot where Sam witnesses something and there are secrets and lies and tension until one of them is possessed by some power was a huge improvement, in my opinion.

I liked that they addressed a different way of gathering souls, and that Crowley shut it down. 

I liked the Rowena twist, telegraphed as it may have been. I am interested in where it goes and how it affects Crowley and others. It is something different. You have to wonder if Crowley's son will play into the story and how it will affect everything. 

I was meh on the entire Cole storyline but thought we got some good beats in this episode on it. Is it resolved? I honestly hope so because I don't particularly want to delve into it further. The conversation of who the real monster is can be addressed in 100 ways that doesn't involve this character, who I find generally uninteresting. 

I have written a novel on this one, so I will close with a random observation:

Anyone wonder if Cole's father paired the livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti?