S04.E09: There's Something Else Going On

[Pallas]

And what's the deal with Saul's glasses? Why are we shown them being taken on and off so many times.  Andy why is Carrie holding them in the car and why does she hand them to Saul so he can talk on the phone?

 

Saul is vulnerable and seems less than himself without them, and we feel that with him, each time they are withheld from him. My read is that his glasses represent two different but not opposed things: Saul's professional armor, and Saul's humane vision.

 

Carrie picked up Saul's glasses from the ground when she and Saul finally moved toward the American line on the tarmac.  She continued to hold them in the car, only seeming to recall that she was doing so after he wrestled with the choice of whether to return to the world, more or less, and talk to Mira.     

[bluebonnet]

Except that all of this is supposed to happen because Redmond is supposed to recall that time a week or so ago where he found a drunk Boyd in the hotel bar where Tasneem entered as well. 

 

I just think that this is a case of the audience knowing a piece of trivia and expecting that somehow some way it's supposed to click for a character as well, which never seems believable to me. 

Except Redmond should be expected to recall this because Dennis is now a suspected traitor who poisoned the station chief.  His actions - every single one of them- should be scrutinized.  More importantly, this is a known connection between Dennis and an ISI agent.  It's not a piece of trivia that the audience alone is privy to.  This isn't the same as the audience knowing Dennis followed Fara and went through her trash while Fara was oblivious.  Redmond knows that Dennis had a secret and also knows that Dennis spoke with Tasneem because he was standing right there.  

 

It's not like anyone is suggesting that Red needs to recall something truly trivial, like what color shirt Dennis was wearing that night.  A simple "hmm, he's not talking but the other day this weird thing happened so while we're throwing spaghetti at the wall trying to make something stick, let's try this" would suffice.  It's truly mind boggling that this is never brought up.  You can keep defending it if you want.  I'm moving on because in an episode full of stupid, this wasn't the stupidest thing.

 

The unguarded tunnel is probably the stupidest.  It was one thing when it was implied that the tunnel was truly something secret, at least from most of the staff inside the embassy.  After all, spies need a way to come in and out.  But ffs, everyone and Dennis knows about it.  Not fucking secret and this public tunnel was apparently unguarded and unmonitored.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.  Though, if Redmond had mentioned the meet up with Tasneem and they name dropped Tasneem to Dennis, maybe Dennis would have spilled and the tunnel would have been monitored.  Just sayin'....

[slowpoked]

 

I am so pleased that Dennis is trapped in that building with them. Serves him right that he is going to suffer the same fate as the others he betrayed.

 

Exactly. And that he's also realizing that Tasneem could give two shits about what would happen to him. He clung on to her because he finally felt like a real man who had some use to anyone while betraying his country. Now that he has served his purpose, she's dumping him like an old dishrag that he is.

[Bcharmer]

I like Redmond's character. There's something about Michael O'Keefe, though, that reminds me of David Costabile. Whenever he's on screen, I think of Gale Boetticher (Breaking Bad) and Rick Messer (Damages). Just thought I'd share.

[RitaV]

I wish there had been a short scene or even a line or two of them concerned about what Dennis may have given the other side from an immediate security standpoint. Having Carrie so certain "there's something else going on", but not seriously considering security vulnerabilities with the embassy posed by an insider spying, is a competency problem. Not just Carrie, but also the US Ambassador and the Director of the CIA.

[WaltersHair]

If Carrie felt personally responsible for 911, how is she going to feel about her own embassy getting (possibly) torched?

Edited November 24, 2014 by WaltersHair

[Muffyn]

I think we were shown an overhead shot of three or four people scrambling out of one of the SUVs.  It was very quick.  It looked like the first one blew up.  The Carrie/Saulmobile rear-ended it.  Almost simultaneously the rear car blew up.  People exited the middle car; then the middle car blew up.  It leaves it open as to whether they cleared the area before the car exploded.  They could be (sort of) okay, injured or dead. (Alright, we know Carrie's not dead, but you get my point).  

[Latverian Diplomat]

This level of Pakistani complicity is a little hard to swallow. We're edging up to declaration of war territory now.

 

I get that it will turn out to be a rogue faction or whatever, but Pakistan is a very fragile country. The US has a dozen ways to retaliate to something like this that would make even a hint of Pakistani government complicity far too large a risk. India has always been Pakistan's number one obsession, and the inevitable US/India alliance that would come from allowing a US embassy takeover would be their worst nightmare.

 

It's a little hard to believe that they wouldn't also target Saul's SUV, unless they think that if he was clearly dead, there would be less of an attempt to send a rescue force drawn from Embassy security personnel. (THough I agree with the posts above arguing that that was an unrealistic response anyway).

 

Clearly, the current CIA director is a major target of the embassy attack, that's why Tasneem asked where he was.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[polyhymnia]

I am back to truly enjoying this show.  I will even ignore the many implausible plot things going on because the pacing and acting have been stellar these last two episodes.

[LotusFlower]

I think we were shown an overhead shot of three or four people scrambling out of one of the SUVs.  It was very quick.  It looked like the first one blew up.  The Carrie/Saulmobile rear-ended it.  Almost simultaneously the rear car blew up.  People exited the middle car; then the middle car blew up.  It leaves it open as to whether they cleared the area before the car exploded.  They could be (sort of) okay, injured or dead. (Alright, we know Carrie's not dead, but you get my point).

I watched it a couple of times....it appears the middle car, driving Saul and Carrie, was the only one not hit. The first SUV blew up first, the middle SUV rear ends it, the third SUV stops, people started to exit, and then it gets hit. We never see the doors of the middle car open, let alone Saul and Carrie or anyone else get out. The scene cuts away, but there's another very quick view of the scene on the road, with two of the SUV's engulfed in flames, and the third simply banged up. So while it's a certainty that the occupants of the front and rear cars are all dead, the cliff-hanger is what happened to Carrie and Saul (and his magic glasses) who sat in the back seat, and Redmond and the driver who were in the front.

[shapeshifter]

Did anyone catch the name of the drug that Carrie told Dennis he had given her and that was ten times stronger than LSD?

[Helena Dax]

Wow, great episode! Loved that  the embassador knew her husband was  guilty; I'm guessing she remembered his odd behaviour in the last days and that helped her to believe Carrie. Dennis deserves a lot of pain. I don't want him to die in the attack, that would be too easy. I want him to spend the rest of his pathetic life in jail, being eaten alive by  guilt. 

 

And btw, I wonder if Quinn feels guilty too. Don't get me wrong, I love Saul, and I'm glad he's alive -well, we'll see- but it seems to me that they should've killed Haqqani when they got the chance.

 

Tasmeen can't die soon  enough, but I'd like to understand her a little better first. I just don't get why she would be helping the Taliban; she seems pretty used to have power and freedom.

[Bcharmer]

 

Did anyone catch the name of the drug that Carrie told Dennis he had given her and that was ten times stronger than LSD?

Phenethylamine:    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine

[Latverian Diplomat]

Did anyone catch the name of the drug that Carrie told Dennis he had given her and that was ten times stronger than LSD?

Phenethylamine, according to the captions. But that's would be more correctly described as a stimulant or perhaps a psychotropic drug in high doses only, judging from the wiki writeup.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethyla

 

ETA: Sorry Bcharmer didn't see your post before I posted. 

Edited November 25, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[alexvillage]

FUCK!

I don't care if things are close to reality or not. This was one thrilling episode!

[jeansheridan]

Bluebonnet

 

Does Redmond not remember going to the bar to pick up Dennis and seeing Tasneem walk in right when Dennis was about to tell him something?  This might be even worse than Farrah, the most inattentive human being to ever live.

I actually think Redmond did notice and he knows something is up.  He just doesn't know what and how it might help him.  I don't think Redmond is a traitor, but I do think he wants information like all spies.  I suspected he knew that Dennis was squirrely early on.  Redmond is smart, but again, I think he's an opportunist.  He played Carrie the right way (first was an obvious sexist heavy and then proved to be useful, thus gaining her respect),  He's played the ambassador too.  I don't know how he feels about Quinn.   I think it's interesting that Max was instandly suspicious of him (I trust Max's instincts even if he doesn't say much).  

 

Farrah is still knew at being an operative.  I will admit it seemed like her IQ dropped about 20 points in the previous episode.  I blame her stupid hairstyle that made her look about 10 years old.  She had more gravitas when she wore the hijab.   

[jeansheridan]

 

I like Redmond's character. There's something about Michael O'Keefe, though, that reminds me of David Costabile. Whenever he's on screen, I think of Gale Boetticher (Breaking Bad) and Rick Messer (Damages). Just thought I'd share.

I love him too.  Very Philip Seymore Hoffman.   Quiety compentent.  Cynical, but effective.  Plus he delivers his few lines with style.  "I'm a spy.  I know shit." will go down as one of my favorite quotes ever and this show isn't known for its wit.  It's all in the delivery.  I suspect more and more that his "young lady" comment to Carrie was to test her and to make himself seem like a buffoon.  I also suspect his "alcoholism" is a bit of a put on.  I think he wants to seem unthreatening.  Not sure why, but there's a reason. 

[izabella]

This level of Pakistani complicity is a little hard to swallow. We're edging up to declaration of war territory now.

 

I thought it was interesting that the Pakistani Foreign Minister was the one in the hangar with the freed prisoners, and is the one who ordered them all to be unchained.  I thought that Haqqani wanted those prisoners freed, and that Pakistan was not in favor of one or two of them being freed.  So why would the Pakistani Foreign Minister be their welcoming committee instead of Haqqani or his minions?  It makes it seem like he was more involved with Haqqani than he let on. 

[vesperholly]

Wait, is Tasneem with IS or Pakistani military? I got the impression that she's an official Pakistani person and the contact for IS, but is actually working for IS. She and Khan seem to be on very different sides.

[terrymct]

I like Redmond's character. There's something about Michael O'Keefe, though, that reminds me of David Costabile. Whenever he's on screen, I think of Gale Boetticher (Breaking Bad) and Rick Messer (Damages). Just thought I'd share.

 

This show needs a character like Redmond who has a more realistic view of Carrie.  Many of the other characters seem to be inexplicably in love with her or caught up in her drama tsunami.   Someone on that show needs to throw a little shade her way.

 

 

I am so pleased that Dennis is trapped in that building with them. Serves him right that he is going to suffer the same fate as the others he betrayed.

 

He also clearly knows the consequences of his spying and will be less able to justify things in his own mind.

Edited November 25, 2014 by terrymct

[Milburn Stone]

He also clearly knows the consequences of his spying and will be less able to justify things in his own mind.

 

I would love to see him physically trapped by Haqqani on one side of him and Quinn on the other. He turns toward Haqqani and says, "Don't kill me, I was cooperating with you!," then turns to Quinn and says, "Er, I mean..."

[Pallas]

I would love to see him physically trapped by Haqqani on one side of him and Quinn on the other.

 

Quinn to Haqqani:  "Careful, watch his hands.  This man is a reputed plagiarist."  

Haqqani: "And you would have me soil myself with the scum of your ivory towers?  You watch his hands!"

Quinn:  "All right then."  

[Neurochick]

After seeing the end of this episode, I only hope this show doesn't suddenly turn into "24."

[Boundary]

Oh the next episode is bound to be a "24" starring Quinn as Jack Bauer, Carrie as Chloe, Boyd as Shady White House Chief of Staff and Lockhart as the President.

[Pallas]

Oh the next episode is bound to be a "24" starring Quinn as Jack Bauer, Carrie as Chloe, Boyd as Shady White House Chief of Staff and Lockhart as the President.

 

Flip it: Carrie as Jack (the tortured, rogue iconoclast working the outside), Quinn as Chloe (the cynical romantic loyal most of all to the rogue, his/her eyes, ears and hands on the inside). Martha Boyd as the resolute, endangered President, Lockhart as the embattled Director.  

 

All I ask is that Saul not get stuck as The Beloved.  Amend: all I ask is that Saul not remain stuck as The Beloved.   

[betsyboo]

I strongly believe that Showtime needs to provide free benzos to everyone who watches Homeland.  Also, if you can storm an embassy in Crocs-- fair play to you.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Holy hell, those last few minutes were tense. I feel a sense of dread for what's going to happen in the next episode. I hope Lockhart makes it out alive. He's a total dick but I think he often has a good point, and he's hilarious. Quinn and Martha should make it alive - I love them both. Dennis can die, no worries there.

Seconded.

 

I truly think "Holy Fucking Fuck" may be the finest line of dialogue in this show's history. It certainly sums up my feelings about what just transpired and what was portended.

It's my new band name.

 

I spent the entire episode with my legs pressed together for fear of wetting my pants. What a ride!

 

Also? Does anyone else think Haqqani looks like one of the Three Wise Men? or at least how the Wise Men and Jesus have been depicted in art?

Edited November 25, 2014 by betsyboo

[Kat]

 

As long as Quinn is okay, I don't dare who else dies. Save Quinn!

Completely agree! I think that killing off Carrie and Saul (as much as I love Saul) is the right thing to do, and while I'm sure they're going to have them live, I wish they'd have some guts to end their lives in this way.

 

I think it would be a much more satisfying end to this season to have Quinn (and maybe even Lockhart!) go all rogue-agent in the embassy against Haqquani and his men.

 

 

[Bcharmer]

 

I think that killing off Carrie and Saul (as much as I love Saul) is the right thing to do, and while I'm sure they're going to have them live, I wish they'd have some guts to end their lives in this way.

 

While I was more than ready and willing to see Brody killed off, I think I'd stop watching if they killed off both Carrie and Saul. I can't agree that it would be the right thing to do.  If Saul dies, that would be a shame, as he somehow anchors the show for me. I just love his character (I never loved Brody's character, at all), but the show can go on without him. Killing Carrie would be the death of Homeland, in my opinion. Just like killing off Walter White would have been the death of Breaking Bad, before the series finale.  I completely understand that it stretches credulity by having both of them survive that convoy attack, but it can happen, and I hope it does. And I hope Redmond lives, too. Plausibility, or lack thereof, on this show has always been an issue, but when compared to, say, How To Get Away With Murder (which I had to stop watching after the third episode), this is a downright documentary.

[LotusFlower]

Carrie isn't going anywhere; this is Claire Danes' show. It would be like 24 without Jack Bauer. I regard Saul as a staple of the show, too, although lesser so than Carrie. I was wondering what they were going to do with him after his ouster from the CIA last season, and of course they found a clever way to include him in this season's storyline. Makes me a little worried about Lockhart.....

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I truly think "Holy Fucking Fuck" may be the finest line of dialogue in this show's history. It certainly sums up my feelings about what just transpired and what was portended.

It's actually "What the fucking fuck?" which I specifically remembered him saying because it's one of my favorite expressions!

[Bretley]

It's actually "What the fucking fuck?"

Is it too early to nominate that line for the homepage battle? Because I would vote for that every day.

[stormy weather]

 

And what's the deal with Saul's glasses? Why are we shown them being taken on and off so many times.  Andy why is Carrie holding them in the car and why does she hand them to Saul so he can talk on the phone.

 

I thought the telephone call was the trigger. No one knows whether Mira is truly on the other side of the phone or not. Of course that would imply Redmond is a traitor. Why would Mira call him and not Carrie in the first place, though? Hmmm... maybe I'm being too much of a conspiracy theorist here, but given the twists and turns on the show, you really never know who you can trust anymore.

[stillshimpy]

Oh hey, so remember Carrie in the Horror Movie Issued Standard Warehouse of Doom with Abu Nazir, creeping through the tunnels and Nazir stepping out of the shadows? 

 

This entire episode was the antidote to that moment.  As bad as the "Oh great, and meanwhile, Brody stands over the dying VP, gloating...." stuff was, this was the same amount of good.  

 

First of all Claire Danes made me cry when she was talking to Saul and trying to physically haul him up off of the ground.  Secondly, Dennis made me livid (as per usual, I was exercising while watching this...but it was the episode vs. turning purple), he was freaking proud of himself, even after he saw how Sandy had died.  Even if he didn't have enough humanity within him to even flinch when Carrie told him about what he'd poisoned her with -- and you know, Carrie can be a pain in the backside, but she's never done a damned thing to him -- I thought he'd still start to realize, "Oh God, what have I done?" even if he was still trying to cover-his-ass, but he was so smug at the car as he tried to get away.  So freaking proud of himself.  

 

I understand he's a craven jackass trying to dodge treason charges, but it was that at no point did he look conflicted at all.   His poor wife on top of everyone else, it's like realizing you've been married to Himmler all those years.  

 

Also, congratulations to the show for creating a villain who is truly terrifying.  Haqqani walking through that tunnel is actually what made me remember Carrie in the warehouse and how absurd that all was because of the contrast to the actual fear I felt seeing him striding towards that gate.  Abu Nazir never scared me.  Not even once.  I was told he was the big scary boogey man, but I didn't personally find him scary.  The Iranian bottle-slashing jerk from the last season was so over-the-top I also found him closer to comedic than chilling.  

 

Haqqani is scaring the stuffing out of me.

 

I feel like so much of this season has been what the show always could have and should have been, without the silly love story.  

Edited November 26, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Bcharmer]

 

I feel like so much of this season has been what the show always could have and should have been, without the silly love story.

 

Yup. Agreed. My sentiments, exactly.

[jeansheridan]

Haqqani is a good heavy. And I feel worried for Saul and Quinn. I care unlike how I felt about Brody.

I do wonder if the Iranian mole from last year will return. I liked his oiliness. Plus he is Saul' s great achievement. Saul placing policy over personal satisfaction.

I feel like Quinn might be a goner. I hope not but...where does he go as a character?

[Notwisconsin]

This level of Pakistani complicity is a little hard to swallow. We're edging up to declaration of war territory now.

 

The Pakistani ISI is in and of itself is the "Axis of Evil" They nearly blew up South Asia TWICE.

 

Carrie isn't going anywhere; this is Claire Danes' show. It would be like 24 without Jack Bauer.

They've done it before. it doesn't work all that well usually, but killing off the leads before the ending is not unprecedented. There are three more episodes.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Notwisconsin

[Bcharmer]

 

They've done it before. it doesn't work all that well usually, but killing off the leads before the ending is not unprecedented. There are three more episodes.

 

The show has been renewed for a fifth season. 

[scrb]

Prisoner exchange was all hollywood'd up, with the dramatic, tearful completion, because Saul didn't have any regard for his life, his wife or Carrie.

But some kid stupid enough to wear a suicide vest, well okay then, let's go ahead and forget about his moral objections to letting these bad men go.

It's one thing for the ISI to help the Taliban, sympathize with them. But to let them shoot RPGs on the streets of their capital?

Or help them attack the U.S. embassy, stupid enough to have some secret passageway just a bolt cutter away from being breached.

Well compared to having the worst terrorist in the world and one of the top Iranian intelligence officers sneak into the U.S. this is nothing!

[ChocButterfly]

Ohhhh, I loved the episode!

Dennis is a real piece of work! It's like he modeled his entire life around that song "it wasn't me".  Of course Carry isn't dead, but the question is, did Saul and Red survived? The other question is why didn't the CIA followed the exchanged prisoners and drone their asses off after the exchange? Which leads me then to another question, why did the prisoners stayed with the Pakistani officials and not the Taliban? They're really making it seem like the Pakistani government and the Taliban are the same thing.

 

Which leads me to a ton of other questions! Ok, please forgive my ignorance about international politics and such, but I'm really confused about the factions here. We have the Taliban ( Haqanni), the Pakistani government (the balding dude) and ISI (Tasneem and Hot Guy). What the hell is ISI??? Aren't  they the number one terrorist thread in the world right now?? Why would they be openly working with them? Or is "ISI" different from "ISIS"?? And If they are different, who are these people? Are Hot Guy and Tasneem from the same organization? Because Hot Guy seems to have a whole different agenda than Tasneem, who is obviously working with the Taliban.

Edited November 30, 2014 by ChocButterfly

[shapeshifter]

...What the hell is ISI??? Aren't  they the number one terrorist thread in the world right now? Why would they be openly working with them? Or is "ISI" different from "ISIS"??

Yes, different. ISI is sort of like the FBI or CIA. ISIS or The Islamic State or ISIL are pretty much plain old terrorists--even the Taliban thinks so.

[Bcharmer]

 

The other question is why didn't the CIA followed the exchanged prisoners and drone their asses off after the exchange?

 

Bunny said that if they see, or hear of a drone anywhere over the area, then Saul would not be returned.   

 

Which leads me then to another question, why did the prisoners stayed with the Pakistani officials and not the Taliban?

 

That was part of the agreement. The conversation in the hangar went like this:

 

Redmond:  Assuming a successful handover, may I remind you of your agreement. The prisoners, once exchanged, will remain with the Pakistani military custody.   That was the preeminent condition of the White House that Director Lockhart and you agreed to.

 

Bunny:  Yes, of course. We do not want to see these people on the street any more than you do.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Bcharmer

[Milburn Stone]

Bunny:  Yes, of course. We do not want to see these people on the street any more than you do.

 

Parenthetical question: Is Bunny his nickname, or real name? I don't recall hearing any name for him, so I'm not sure whether this is A) his given name, B) a derisive name the American characters have come up with for him, or C) a derisive name the Previously TV'ers have come up with for him.

[Babalu]

IMDB lists the character's name as Bunny Latif. My guess is that his legal first name is something else and Bunny is a nickname he got at (British?) boarding school. (He's a few generations removed from Bertie Wooster's friends, but it's possible that notional nicknames are still fairly prevalent among the English and English-educated upper classes.)

[Bcharmer]

 

C) a derisive name the Previously TV'ers have come up with for him.

 

Speaking of... when I first saw the "Lipless" nickname here, I first thought everyone was talking about Martha. Seems equally appropriate, doesn't it?

[Milburn Stone]

IMDB lists the character's name as Bunny Latif. My guess is that his legal first name is something else and Bunny is a nickname he got at (British?) boarding school. (He's a few generations removed from Bertie Wooster's friends, but it's possible that notional nicknames are still fairly prevalent among the English and English-educated upper classes.)

 

Thanks, Babalu. Your guess makes a lot of sense.

 

Has any of the characters referred to him by this name, or do we know it because of external materials? (I can't remember hearing any of them mention it, but I find some details of this show slip by due to mumbling.)

[Babalu]

I know he's been called Bunny at least once or twice on the show because I knew that was his name before I looked him up on IMDB to see if another name were listed. I think Saul used it but can't remember exactly when.

[Bcharmer]

Also, closed captioning uses that name when he's speaking, but offscreen. That's how I'm reminded that his name is Bunny. Otherwise, I hear him being called "General" when directly addressed. 

[Babalu]

I just thought of another possibility: his name could begin with BAN and Bunny could be short for that. (I was in India in college, and banyan trees are pronounced like bunion there. My husband used to mock me until we had some Pakistani friends visit and they pronounced it the same way.)

[ChocButterfly]

Thank you Shapeshifter and Bcharmer. It was weird that the CIA would be on good terms with a terrorist organization.

[John Potts]

Can't believe Dennis stood up to interrogation - the CIA really should have recruited him years ago! Especially as Carrie was pretty damn scary there ("Officially, we're not allowed to torture anyone..."). I thought it was obvious that the Ambassador was playing her husband there (fair enough, she's not a spy). Also, can't believe I missed Chekov's glasses (I'm guessing homing device, although you'd think then one of the missiles would hit the vehicle he was in).

 

LotusFlower So how can Carrie be alive, let alone saving the day with her super-secret team of clueless Fara and blink-and-you'll-miss-him Max?!

 

This is my problem - blow up the Embassy and you know they'll be survivors, because they're not going to kill the whole cast. It's a literal case of "Less is more".